Hi, everybody.
I'm Josh Mankiewicz, and we're talking Dateline.
And today I'm here with Andrea Canning.
Hi, Andrea.
Hi Josh.
So this episode is called Noises in the Night.
If you've not seen it, it's the episode right below this one on your Dateline podcast feed.
So go there, listen to it.
You can also stream it on Peacock, then come back here.
Now, for this episode, Andrea has an extra clip that did not make it into the broadcast.
And then after that, we will answer some of your questions from social media.
Just a little recap.
In November 2016, a 16-year-old cheerleader named Emma Walker was found dead in her home.
An investigation revealed a bullet shot from outside of the home had gone through the wall and hit her in the head.
Pretty soon, investigators had their prime suspect, which was the high school boyfriend, Riley.
But clearly the heroes of this episode were Riley's friends, who put their friendship aside and worked with police to bring him to justice.
All right, let's talk Dateline.
Let's talk Dateline.
I really liked how Riley's friends kind of stepped up here, and I think that's the headline.
You know, we just did an episode just a couple of weeks ago in which these kids in Florida – knew that their teacher was going to be killed and went along with it anyway and didn't say anything, even though they could have.
Some of them got locked up for it.
And here were kids who did essentially just the opposite.
They chose justice, which I think is great.
I really loved seeing that.
Yeah, and it was great to be able to talk to them as well and hear what was going through their minds, because you know they're very young at this point when they're going along with this police sting.
You know, these are not grownups.
Right.
I feel like it's a big deal for people that age to... It's a big deal for anyone.
But imagine if you're young like that and the police are asking you to do something and turn on a friend, essentially.
So they did it and they took us through what happened and they took us to the spot where this gun was going – they said was going to be thrown into the river.
And that didn't happen because, of course they – got the gun and waited for the police and all that really worked out.
They're even recording their murderous friend, which I gotta say, I mean-
It takes a lot of guts to do something like that.
The easy thing.
Particularly when you're in school, there is an enormous temptation that you kind of go along.
And they did the opposite, and good for them.
I hope that they were sort of celebrated as heroic after this happened.
I thought what they did was really noble, even though they stopped for fast food on the way to the biggest night of their life.
But maybe that was part of winning Riley's confidence.
The family was so grateful to the friends for stepping up like this.
Hats off to them for doing the right thing.
It feels like Riley was pretty much the prime suspect from the get-go.
I think that that's what they thought because, I mean, he was the one who was so controlling with her and that they had all these problems with.
And they'd broken up.
And, by the way, good for Emma for like drawing a line and saying you know yeah, you know you're going to, you're going to date some other girl.
We're done.
You don't think it's going to turn out like this.
She had finally gotten to the point where she was like okay, I'm seeing, like what's going on with him.
And her parents finally thought they were on the right track.
You know, that this is... Things are turning around here.
And then he goes and does that.
Because...
He was obsessed with her.
And poor Emma, you know, that young love.
Love is blind, right?
Like, young people, they fall hard.
And she...
Gosh, she just couldn't shake him until the end.
And then it was too late because of what he did.
And he's like, the minute she's dead, I'm going to live my life through Emma Walker, right?
Sort of like wrapping all of that in religion.
Oh, yeah.
I've seen that in quite a few of these datelines with younger people where they...
They put this ruse on.
Something happens to a young person and then you know the person who did.
It comes to the family to help search, or you know to the funeral, or oh, I'm so sorry for you.
Or you know I loved her or him.
And then meanwhile, all along, they're the ones who did it.
There's a story about a girl in small town Nevada who had the same thing, the rodeo queen.
She was killed and the guy who killed her, you know, came to the memorial service and people were consoling him, you know.
You know, because they knew how terrible he felt because he was closer to her than anybody.
And then, of course, turns out he's the killer.
Yeah, we did a talking date line on that one.
I remember her.
It's why, you know, murder police always go to the funeral.
Yeah.
Like it's why they go and they're taking pictures of the car's license plates in the parking lot and they are seeing who's there.
Yeah.
Because frequently your killer is there in that crowd.
Well, and it's also a sign, too, if the killer was close to the victim and is not there.
You know, it could go either way.
You know they're looking amongst the suspects, or if somebody doesn't show up and they were close, that's bizarre as well.
Of course, we know that Riley... you know, goes to trial in 2018.
And, you know, there's the big shock in the courtroom that now he's saying he did it.
Right.
The defense...
I guess they figured out there's no point in denying.
They got the gun, they got the sting, they got the video, they got him talking.
I mean, it's time to come up with a different theory of the crime.
They're like, okay, yeah, I was there and I did shoot the gun.
Now he's saying that his intention was not to kill her, just to scare her.
I didn't mean to kill anybody.
I just meant to shoot into a dwelling where the woman who had just broken up with me was sleeping.
Okay.
And at this point, you know, what else is the defense going to do?
Of course, the prosecution does not believe that for one second.
You know, they say that he knew every room in that house.
He knew where her bed was and, you know, he would know exactly where to shoot.
And that's what he did.
So, you know, they weren't buying it.
No, but it's probably the best you can do when you realize that you can no longer argue that he had nothing to do with it and he wasn't there.
It does make me think though, you know, even though yes, Riley would know where her bed was, Riley would know her room and all that.
It's still, God, it still made me think, though, like how unlucky Riley. that he made that shot.
Because even with that knowledge I mean the odds of the bullet unless you're like a marksman, you know the odds of the bullet going right into her head.
I mean, it's still a shot in the dark in some ways.
You know what I mean?
It is.
It is literally a shot in the dark.
Right, literally and figuratively.
And that's part of the reason why I thought the defense had a decent strategy with saying he didn't actually think he'd kill her.
I would say on the facts... the defense might very well be right.
I mean, he was more lucky with that shot than anything else.
But I mean, he did know where she slept.
He did fire in that direction.
I mean, you didn't fire up in the air.
And you meant to fire it at that person.
It's not like you dropped it and it went off.
Like, even if it was a lucky shot, you had to know that there's a possibility you'll get a lucky shot.
That was one of the possible outcomes is that she will be killed.
When we get back, Andrea is going to share a podcast exclusive clip from her interview with Emma's friends.
This is one of those stories that just rips your heart out.
Emma, I got to know her family.
Her mom is so just obliterated by this.
Yeah.
On Facebook, I see the posts almost every day from her mom about her daughter.
That was her only daughter.
It's been so hard for her.
One of the things that really kind of leaped out at me here was you know, the parents get woken up in the middle of the night by these noises.
I don't know what they are.
He goes in, he immediately checks on his kids.
That's the first thing you do, right?
You know, are my kids up?
Did they cause the noise?
Are they OK?
They are.
They're both out.
You know, he's like, OK, I don't know what that was, but whatever it was, my family seemed safe.
And then, of course, the next morning, it turns out it's not.
What a horror story.
Finding your kid dead like that in your house, in their bed, in the place where they're supposed to be safest, in your home with you.
I mean, that isn't the kind of thing you get over.
It's not supposed to be the kind of thing you get over.
It's so disturbing to me, like even to talk about it.
That's why I hate using words like closure.
Cause like this, this thing doesn't go away.
It's not like, because he got locked up that therefore that mom is okay.
She's not going to be okay.
And it's such an outrage when you have a 16-year-old girl with her whole life ahead of her.
And the thing that really got me about this story was that the parents did— everything right.
You know, they did everything they could.
Emma just wanted to be with him.
And the more the parents fight back any parents the more you know your kid probably wants to be with that guy or that girl.
So they said, you know what?
They had the apps on the phone.
They knew where she was going.
They knew who she was talking to.
And they said, look, he can come over.
Just be in the living room.
Or he can come to church with us.
Or we can all go out to dinner.
You know they were trying to like be accommodating to her because she was so in love with him, even though they clearly realized that he wasn't the right guy.
Right, and it all started because they saw text messages and they saw that he was controlling in these text messages and they didn't want her to be with him.
But she clearly, from the apps, they were realizing she's still seeing him.
And so they said let's do everything we can to at least be a part of this and watch them and have some input here, versus her sneaking off behind our backs.
That's absolutely the right call, which is we're not going to be ignorant of this.
And they're also not going to say to her no, you absolutely cannot see this guy you're so crazy about, but we're going to be mindful of it.
I completely agree.
And her family is now working to educate teens about toxic relationships, with the hope that they can prevent what happened to Emma from happening to others.
And we see that so much where...
Families turn a tragedy into trying to help others, you know, making sure that their loved one's life meant something and that they can save another life.
Let me ask you, what have you told your girls about this kind of thing?
So I'll be honest with you.
I haven't said a whole lot.
My oldest just turned 15.
She has a boyfriend. but you guys are paying attention.
I know you.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
We're paying attention, but he seems very lovely.
Yeah.
I mean, I guess what I want to ask is sort of bigger picture.
I mean you've said I'm sure because of your job and also because of you know who you are.
I'm sure you've said to your girls, like look, When some guy, whoever it is, starts bullying you, controlling you, telling you you can't do this, don't talk back to me.
Those are red flags.
Absolutely.
And I haven't had that full conversation yet because this is her first boyfriend.
So maybe I should.
And, you know, my oldest has such a good head on her shoulders, as did Emma.
It's not like Emma didn't.
She was such a good girl, Emma.
You know, she...
Yeah.
Wanted to work in the NICU.
You know, when she was older, she was a cheerleader.
She was so beautiful.
She had great friends.
So this feels like a good place to bring in some sound that did not make the broadcast in which you talked with them as friends about what they thought her future was going to be and how different things ended up working out.
I heard that Em and I have something in common.
We both love babies.
Yes.
Because I have five of them and I heard that that was What she loved, babies.
What was it?
I mean, she's so young.
What was it about babies?
I don't know.
It's just, you know, there's those people where, like anytime, there's a baby or a puppy around, they're just attracted to them.
And they always liked her.
And I just, I don't know.
I guess it's her...
She had a very loving, caring personality.
And did she I mean, I know she was so young, but to think about babies did she talk about ever getting married and wanting a family of her own?
Yeah.
I always remember talking about this.
There was this old house on Tazewell Pike that was abandoned.
You would never picture even rebuilding it.
It was like a teardown.
And she always talked about wanting to get married there.
Someday I was like what about that house once you get married there, that she wanted to get married there?
And I was like...
Did she say why?
No, she was always just like, she's just like, was in love with it.
And I was like, what the heck?
Now, she was kind of an old soul. you know, if you think about it.
And I've added one baby since then, since we aired that story.
How many years between your oldest and your youngest?
10.
You're done now, right?
Oh, my gosh.
Of course.
Do you even have to ask me that question?
I don't, but it was fun.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're going to have a house full of teenagers one of these days.
I know, I know.
And now I do have to start thinking about, you know, talking to them about boys and stuff.
It's because we are now getting into that world.
Yep, it's coming.
Yikes.
Well, dad's a Marine, you know, mom's on Dateline.
Yeah, I'm guessing Tony is completely prepared for that situation in which the kid walks in thinking one thing and walks out thinking I'm terrified.
Yeah, maybe just the titles alone from the parents will keep him on their toes.
I hope, one can hope.
After the break we will be back and we will answer some listener questions about this broadcast from social media.
Okay, social media questions.
Nina, cool what's next says in the interview room.
She's the girl that passed away and not Emma, the love of his life.
The girl, she texted me.
Which girl?
The one that passed away.
Oh, okay.
What's her name?
Emma.
I mean, any police officer is going to see that and think like, wait, wait, what?
Do that again.
One more time, please.
That's like me.
If anything God forbid happened to my husband that I'm calling him the man you know who passed away.
What?
That sounds absurd.
Yeah.
Interrogations are full of like little moments like that.
That's, you know.
Yeah.
Little red flags.
Yeah.
You know, I have a friend who's a former homicide detective here in Los Angeles.
And he flies around the country now.
He's retired.
Sort of teaching interrogation techniques to different departments.
Because he talks about how...
You know the young guys today who are coming into homicide.
They're very good at like getting all the information off your phone and figuring out exactly where you were by the cell towers and scouring your social media and going through your computer.
And that's all very helpful, and it builds cases.
The skill that isn't sort of being taught as much and that cops are falling short on, in his opinion, is what happens in the room and paying attention to people and like learning from their remarks, exactly like this one.
Yeah.
It's also that gut instinct too, that I think a lot of detectives have.
You know the body language, the words.
You know all of it, all of it.
They can, they can sense that when someone doesn't feel like they're telling the truth.
Good camera placement in the interview room in this episode by this department, because you know we air all this interrogation footage right.
And, you know, in some of those rooms, the camera is way up in the far corner. right?
And so you can see all three of the people, but you know, maybe the two cops and the defendant, but it's like this big wide shot and you can't see the expressions on the on the defendant or the person of interest's face as well, because they're so tiny in the frame.
I always appreciate it when there are departments who think to themselves yeah, actually I'm not interested in seeing our officers as much.
I want to see the person reacting because that's going to be a more powerful exhibit in court and on Dateline.
They probably aren't thinking that, but I am.
I know.
I love it when it's really good quality.
Yeah, but it makes a big difference.
I'm always amazed when there's not a camera anymore.
Like if it's... if it's like an audio recording or whatever, you're like, what?
Don't, this is 2024.
I mean, come on, let's get some good quality camera equipment in here.
Let's see.
Connie Weller on Facebook says, I watched this with my soon to be 14 year old son.
We will continue to have discussions about unhealthy relationships, and Emma and others will be remembered.
It's a good thing.
I would imagine that Emma's parents want very much to do exactly that to encourage parents to have discussions with their children about what a healthy relationship is and what a healthy relationship is not.
Are you seeing the wheels turning in my head now?
I actually am, yes.
That I need to do this now?
I know I'm going to get some eye rolls, but I think this is kind of the push I needed to have that conversation with my girls because it is super, super important.
When I was in local news in Washington DC I was covering some PTA meeting.
That was because of something that had happened at the school involving drugs.
And one of the parents asked the cops who were speaking at the PTA meeting, she said I'm the parent of an eight-year-old.
What is the right time to start talking to your kids about drugs?
And the cops said it's already too late.
Oh, yeah.
Drugs, I've already had that conversation.
But I use teachable moments.
Like, it's not like I sat them down and had a conversation.
It's...
More like if we see someone or we see something on TV or something has happened to someone that we know or in the news.
All these conversations we have to have with our young people.
It's hard, but you got to do it.
Angie Hill on Facebook writes, she's my niece.
I miss her so much.
She was my world.
The firstborn into our family of nieces and nephews.
We adored each other.
She was supposed to stand by me in my wedding three weeks later.
And that is something we talk about all the time which is sort of the ripple effect of these homicides.
Oh my gosh.
This is Emma's aunt.
Yeah.
Oh, my gosh.
Wow.
Terrible thing.
Poor Angie.
Yeah.
Again, this family just absolutely torn apart.
Right, because there's all these events that Emma won't get to have for her own life and all these events for other people's lives that she won't participate in.
You know, I would just like to say one more thing like that.
I just wish the Walkers well, and I know.
Life isn't easy, but they just got to keep being good people and helping other people.
And very, very sad for the way that I met them, but also grateful that I did meet them, because they are just wonderful, wonderful people.
Okay, that is it for Talking Dateline for this week.
Now remember, if you have any questions for us about the stories we do or about anything on Dateline, you can reach out to us on social media at DatelineNBC.
Now, there's something else you don't want to miss, which is that Keith...
Who does not like me?
But I'm doing this anyway.
You're such a liar.
I mean, I'm just saying.
I have to say what's true.
He has a new Morrison Mysteries podcast.
And this season, he is reading the classic crime thriller, The Dead Alive.
You can binge the whole series for free. wherever you get your podcasts.
So that's something to look forward to.
See you Fridays on Dayline on NBC.
