Hi, everyone.
I'm Andrea Canning, and we are Talking Dateline.
Today, I'm joined by Keith Morrison to discuss his latest episode, A Little Patch of Perfect.
Hey, Keith.
Hello, Andrea.
How are you?
Good.
So if you haven't seen A Little Patch of Perfect, it's the episode right below this one on your Dateline podcast feed.
So go there and listen to it or stream it on Peacock and then come back here.
But first, a quick recap.
When wealthy Atlanta lawyer, Gary Ferris, was found dead in a burn pile on his estate in 2018, police wondered if he had fainted from the heat and fallen into the fire while tending to it.
But a further investigation revealed a family full of secrets and grudges and that Gary had been killed by one of his own.
For this episode, Keith is going to share an extra clip from an interview with Martha Jane Barton, the woman whose last-minute testimony surprised the courtroom.
And later one of the producers of this episode, Keith Greenberg, will be on to answer your questions about the show from social media.
Okay, Keith, let's talk Dateline.
All right.
So, okay, a little patch of perfect.
You know those drone shots looking at that beautiful piece of property, beautiful house, beautiful land.
It does look like a little patch of perfect, but it wasn't so perfect, was it?
You know, nothing's ever perfect, Andrea.
I mean, we all like to strive for it.
We imagine it.
We fantasize about exactly the lovely country property we'd love to have, with the mansion or the, the beautiful big house on it and our grown children taking part in the running of it.
It, it just, it's a, it's just a delightful idea of an idyllic family living out its days.
Um, But, of course, nothing is ever perfect.
And behind that lovely facade, some people called this family the Ferris wheel.
They hated that, and they still hate it.
Yeah, because the last name was Ferris.
It was Ferris, yeah.
They call them that because it was clearly a dysfunctional family.
I mean, it's a wonderful place, a lovely big family, everybody with their roles, and yet there were secrets behind which could be deadly.
You, at one point, Keith, compared it to—was it Agatha Christie?
It was.
One of the—yeah, because I've always loved Agatha Christie.
Yeah.
Who doesn't, right?
All of her books were based on a crime which occurred in a confined area, with a limited number of people around, any one of whom— could have been the culprit.
And then it would be a process of clues pointing one direction, then the other direction, then the other direction.
And that was this kind of story.
It had to be somebody who had access to that particular piece of property, that piece of perfect on that weekend.
And sure enough, all the children did.
Yes.
And one thing that seemed very clear about this family was money was at the center for some of the family members.
And Big Daddy or Gary.
He certainly seemed to use money as you know, maybe a controlling thing with some of the family members, but he was also generous at the same time.
Sure.
That was certainly a source of conflict between Gary and his wife, because he did make money available to the grown children whenever they required it.
If they just asked him, he would turn over a credit card for something they couldn't afford or for some bill they couldn't pay.
Just before all of this happened, he was going to pay for a vacation for his eldest son and his eldest son's family.
And they were all going to go off to Florida together.
And his wife, Melody, was not happy about that.
But all the children received this largesse from time to time.
Most of the time...
Gary, big daddy, did not seem to resent it at all.
He just opened his wallet and said, here's a credit card.
Use it for what you need to use it.
But he began to become somewhat resentful that he felt that some of them were taking advantage of him.
The two sons, perhaps more than the others, but it was a general thing.
And I think he felt that same way about Melody, about his wife.
So, yes, money was kind of a source of tension in the family.
You know, it's funny.
I also thought of like how he gives money to the kids.
And I was thinking how that starts at such a young age, right?
That dance with your children about... what do you give them?
And they're always asking you for something.
And when do you say yes?
And when do you say no?
And when are you generous?
And when are you not?
And I'm sure you having adult children, then it changes when they become adults.
Well, yes, but it'll change if you encourage the change.
If you just go along like Gary did and keep shelling out the money...
They're not going to turn it down, you know, especially if they're having some monetary difficulties themselves.
No.
How do you handle that with your kids, Keith?
I know they're getting on their own now and stuff, but like you know, it's that delicate balance though.
Yeah, that's good.
Well, because you raise them well, right?
I'm not sure they would agree.
But there's always, I think, in every family and you're coming up to it yourself there's that period where you know how much responsibility are you going to take for yourself.
And how much are you going to lean on people who... could make it easy for you.
That's a, you know, that's a hard lesson to learn.
And obviously Gary never taught that to his family.
No.
And Melody was spending like crazy.
So...
Yeah, and he didn't seem to mind Melody spending like crazy, as long as she spent it on things for the ranch, or for them, or for herself.
Yes, yes.
He discovered along the way several times she would be with a boyfriend spending all of Gary's money.
So that's when he changed her from a credit card to a debit card so he could keep track of all the money she spent.
And she did not like that.
So there was a source of tension between the two of them.
One thing about Gary was I couldn't believe his health.
I mean, this guy is taking blood pressure medicine.
He's drinking a 12-pack of Mountain Dew a day and two packs of cigarettes a day.
How was he standing?
And he was huge 300 pounds 6'4, 6'5.
A big, big man who did not exercise, did not look after himself.
He couldn't sleep without a CPAP machine.
Yeah, he definitely had some health issues there.
And the CPAP being used as a clue.
So we've heard about Fitbits and different Apple Watches and stuff.
That's a new one for me, hearing that the CPAP came into the investigation.
Right.
Well, when someone suffers from sleep apnea—
And they have it bad.
It's quite often a CPAP machine.
I wish I could tell you what the letters stand for.
I used to know and I've since forgotten, but it helps regulate breathing.
So Gary suffered from that and had for a long time, but he had been on the CPAP machine for quite a while and he needed it to the point where he never.
Oops, hang on a second, just to get rid of that.
Who is it, Keith?
Tell us who's calling you.
It's one of my children.
Oh, see?
Their ears were burning, right?
They were, yeah.
So he would never have been without a CPAP machine after a certain time of night, because he was very specific in his habits.
So the fact that they were able to show that the CPAP machine was not used that night indicated that he was killed before his bedtime.
Yeah, the CPAP timeline.
And are you interested in what CPAP stands for?
I am.
You're going to tell me, aren't you?
Continuous Positive Airway Pressure.
Well, there you go.
And perfectly appropriate letters for it, isn't it?
You learn something new every day on Talking Dateline.
Busy on Google as I'm yammering away.
Right?
So I want to talk about the timing of this because Melody, when they were asking her, you know, did you hear any gunshots?
And she's saying-
Well, it was so hard to tell because, you know, there were fireworks.
Sure.
And I was wondering if that was just very convenient for her to be able to say that you know, fireworks were going off.
Could have been, could have been.
But those gunshots happened, at least two of them one in the kitchen and one either on the stairway to the basement or right down to the basement itself.
And that's an enclosed house, a 38 special, which would have made a heck of a noise, and you could not possibly have confused that with fireworks.
So immediately the people who were questioning her realized that that was not possible, that she was telling a lie.
There had been... things going on between Melody and Gary for a while.
And one of the things that jumped out at me was when Gary said you'll know what to tell Dateline if I die mysteriously.
Yes, exactly.
Well, you know, we've been doing this for a while, haven't we?
Yes.
Gary felt as if Melody was possibly poisoning him.
Um, You know, in spite of all the other issues in their marriage, in spite of the fact that they lived on separate floors of this house, she still cooked the food and he still ate the food.
And he began to feel ill, was taken to the hospital.
And that's when he said that about Dateline.
But that was very soon before, you know, his death.
Yeah.
And one of the ways that he thought she might be trying to poison him was through the cast iron skillet with the chocolate chip cookies, which is like oh my gosh, really.
You're going to do it?
Like, threw a cookie like that?
Well, he did love his sweets, you know.
Yeah.
He liked to eat a lot of things.
And she knew he liked the cookies, yeah.
I feel like there have just been so many poisonings lately.
Like, does it feel like more to you than in the past?
Yeah.
I think you're just getting too close to them, Andrea.
Oh, my gosh.
OK, we're going to take a quick break.
When we come back.
Keith has a podcast exclusive clip from an interview with a surprise witness that shook up Melody's trial.
One thing that really surprises me sometimes are these prosecutors who are willing to take cases that are not easy and go to trial.
And I feel like this is one of those ones where you're really rolling the dice with you know how much evidence you have.
I mean, it looks bad for Melody, but like there's possible alternate suspects.
There's not a lot of physical evidence tying her to the crime.
Yes, to some degree that's true.
And that's part of the reason possibly why it took so long.
This occurred way back in 2018, finally goes to trial toward the end of 2024.
It's a long time.
And part of it was COVID, of course.
But part of it was, you know, they had to try to work it all out and, you know, wait for very specific results from the medical examiner.
Wait for this, wait for that.
Try to get more evidence, more information.
So yeah, it was something of a gamble.
One of the mysteries of this story was how this 120-pound woman could somehow get this 300-pound man from the basement of their house to their burn pile, which was 50 yards away.
Or so, you know, exactly how much I don't know, but it's a long way.
And, you know, she could never have lugged that man more than three or four feet, probably.
If that dead weight is a very difficult thing to cart around.
That's why that trial was so interesting when the defense attorney hauls out bags of rock salt.
Sure.
That's a first.
Well, trying to dramatize.
And it was a technique that seemed pretty effective at the time.
Yeah.
The prosecution decided not to address the issue of how he got onto the burn pile, because they couldn't possibly know for sure.
Wasn't it that they thought she might have put the body on his body on a tractor?
I heard two different views from some of the people involved.
One, they did have a tractor with a lift on it, with a shovel.
You know, carry it in the shovel across to the fire and then dump it in the middle.
That's probably the most likely thing that happened.
The tractor appeared to have been used that night.
The other thing that one of her sons pointed out to me, Scott.
In fact, he was looking around for a tow rope that they used to if they had an animal who had died in the field or some such thing, or a big heavy weight to move.
They had this tow rope that was specifically designed for it and they would tow it around with an ATV vehicle that she was that Melody was always using.
You know, the one thing about, what was her lover's name?
Rusty.
Rusty.
He gave her a second cell phone.
Then on his phone, he deleted her contact or changed the name, right, to XO.
Yeah.
Do people not know That law enforcement can see that you've done something to your phone?
Maybe it's just a long learning curve, but you would think by now people would get it, yeah.
So it was interesting.
Yeah the, you know how she tried to spin that tattoo, the XO.
You know we all think hugs and kisses and that this was our fresh start, you know, with the farm and Gary and I love him so much.
And well, it turns out XO is also a beverage, right?
It was their little secret, hers and Rusty's.
They enjoyed that beverage, but that was kind of, you know, the talisman of their relationship.
It's like Melody wanted the best of both worlds.
You know, she wanted the farm.
She liked the money.
She probably felt comfortable, I guess, with Gary.
They'd been together for so long.
I got the impression, doing this story though, that she was only staying because it was a fountain of money.
Let's talk about Martha, maybe my favorite person in the show.
Yeah.
Martha was Rusty's stepmother.
Yes, Rusty's absolutely, impeccably honest stepmother.
Honest to the point where she would, you know, give up the woman she had known for so many years Melody, and whom she loved, I'm sure, for the sake of something she knew to be true.
We had this mid-trial surprise, the Perry Mason moment.
Yes.
And it's the first time I've encountered a real, genuine Perry Mason moment, which is, you know, something happens in the middle of the trial and they bring the witness in and it changes everything.
I mean, that's phenomenal.
It was.
And I loved how she searched everywhere for that gun in her house because she didn't want to get it wrong.
You know, she wasn't looking to get these people in trouble.
She wanted to get it right.
And they tried to use that argument that Martha was upset because she didn't want to be embarrassed.
You know that they were having this relationship and she couldn't show her face in town, and all that.
And I did not get that sense at all.
I got the sense from Martha that She just wanted to do the right thing.
Yeah.
That certainly is what the prosecutors believed.
And it certainly made sense to me.
And Keith.
We have a clip from Martha that did not air on the show that we'd love to play for our listeners.
Great.
Melody's not a bad person.
100% bad.
She was really good to me.
I know that she loves me.
And she's probably upset with me now.
And I hope that when she settles down, that she can remember the good times that we've had and that she won't be upset with me.
I don't want anybody to be upset with me.
I wanted to tell the truth, and then I wanted my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren, my nieces and nephews to always remember To tell the truth.
It's just best.
You don't have to tell all these other things to support lies.
Lovely woman.
Truly lovely woman.
Yeah.
I hate to break it to her, though, but I'm guessing Melody probably is angry with her.
Not much doubt about that, I suspect.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny, though.
Martha says, well, she's not 100% bad, but, you know, she murdered her husband.
Her children were very good about that question of Melody's character.
That when they were growing up she could be absolutely mesmerizing and delightful and they love to be with her.
But then it could turn on a dime and then you could have a terrible day and everybody would be in trouble.
I mean, one of them said, I was afraid of my mom growing up.
Yeah.
I mean, that's really sad.
And then, at the end of the trial, the most astonishing thing I ever saw was Truly when it came time for sentencing of Melody.
And she sat there in the dock and went through this long screed about her son Scott, being the guilty party.
And really, it was he who did it and not me.
I just, I just.
I mean you know anybody who, who is a parent who, looking at that, thinking my God, could I do that to my child?
Oh my gosh, I was dying when she said that.
Sure.
Thanks so much, Keith.
Okay, after the break, I'll be joined by one of the producers of this episode, Keith Greenberg, to answer some of your questions from social media.
Thank you.
All right.
We're going to go from one Keith to another with Keith Greenberg, producer of this episode.
Hey, Keith.
Hey, Andrea.
All right.
So this is one of my favorite parts of Talking Dateline is hearing what the viewers think after the show's air.
Lawana Gilbert at Kgirl8.
Lawana.
She had a question that I actually had when I was watching the show that I never got the chance to ask Keith Morrison.
So I'm going to ask you, Keith.
It was so unusual that after a murder, the brothers would be talking to law enforcement together.
I would think it's like Detective 101.
You separate anyone who, you know, might have had a reason to do this or whatever.
So you they don't influence each other.
I'm glad you're making this point.
There were numerous interviews done from the time of Gary's death.
And we happened to see video of one interview that happened to have both brothers in it.
I was wondering, though, when did that interview happen?
Was that the first interview?
Was that later?
It was not the first interview.
The first interviews were done one-on-one on the property.
And then there were interviews at the police station.
And this was about two weeks or so after the murder.
Makes sense.
Our next comment is from Sable Genius at WorkRightCom.
So we know Gary did not have a will, despite being a lawyer, which is interesting despite having children and a wife.
Sable wants to know if there were any secret or otherwise life insurance policies, despite Melody's claim that Gary didn't have any, because we know that life insurance is always such a big motive in these cases.
Let me clarify and say that there was not a will that anyone I spoke to was able to locate.
Gary, being a lawyer, may have had a will somewhere, but neither his family members nor his business associates could locate it.
In terms of life insurance, yes, there was life insurance.
And he did have a stake in the partnership with the law firm, as well as a 401k.
And, as of now, Family members told me that the children have received some of those assets, but none of this is fully resolved yet.
This question from Jamal at jzel216.
This is another question that I have.
See, we're just on the same wavelength as our viewers.
The murder could have been planned, Jamal feels, that around the time of the fireworks, right?
Because it certainly gave Melody something to say.
There were fireworks going off.
I don't know if I was hearing gunshots or fireworks.
So that's one part of Jamal's comments.
And then also, it would take a lot to get a dead body of a man that size all the way out to the burn pit, which was really a big part of the episode.
Yes.
We're not sure if the fireworks were as loud as Melody claimed they were.
And I'm wondering if this is just her covering for herself and saying well, there were fireworks going off, so who could tell?
In terms of Gary's body and how it was transported.
This was something that the prosecution deliberately left nebulous into the interpretation of the jurors.
Yeah.
One juror theorized that when Gary was shot, he might have ran outside the door to his living quarters, which led to the hill that led directly at a steep incline to the burn pit, could have fallen and then been pushed into the burrow by the tractor.
All right.
Linda Mitchell on Facebook.
If Gary thought he was being poisoned, why didn't he tell his doctors at the hospital when he first took ill?
I wonder if anything showed up in his lab work.
I think he was the kind of guy that didn't really love going to doctors and going to hospitals.
And he confided to family members that he believed that Melody may have been poisoning him.
But he didn't tell the doctors that.
And in fact, I was led to believe he was even a little bit embarrassed of it.
And so he didn't mention anything to his doctors.
And, as one of the detectives pointed out, a special type of blood work would have had to have been done to check for poisoning.
And because it was never requested.
Nobody just automatically says hey, let's see if this guy is poisoned.
Okay, Nikki Rogers on Facebook.
Will there be an appeal?
There will absolutely be an appeal.
The appeal is automatic.
And the appeal is now in the hands of a new set of attorneys who undoubtedly will say that she was inadequately represented.
And I spoke to the defense attorneys and they said to me, that's exactly what they anticipate.
That's standard fare in this type of a trial.
Okay, Keith, thank you for diving into this with us and answering our viewers.
Very, very good questions.
I'll say it again.
Very good questions.
Thank you, Keith.
And all questions that came up in the course of doing the story.
So it's really great to interact with people whose thought process is very much the same as ours.
Absolutely.
Well, that is this edition of Talking Dateline.
Remember, if you have any questions for us about stories or about Dateline, you can reach us 24-7 on social media at DatelineNBC.
You can also record your questions as an audio message and send it to us over social media.
And of course, we will see you Fridays on Dateline on NBC.
Thank you for listening.
