Hello, I'm Keith Morris, and I'm here with Josh Mankiewicz, and we are Talking Dateline.
Welcome, Josh.
It's usually the other way around.
Hello, how are you?
Good, thank you.
This was a very interesting and worthwhile episode.
The episode is called The Day Akia Disappeared.
This story is about the May 2017 disappearance of eight and a half months pregnant young mother, Akia Eggleston, and the efforts by family and investigators to find out what happened to her.
If you haven't listened to the show yet, it's the episode right below this one on the list of podcasts you just chose from.
So go there, listen to it or, if you want to watch it, you can stream it on Peacock and then come back here.
And when you come back, Josh has an extra clip he wants to play for us from Akia's family.
Later, we're going to answer some of your questions about the show from social media.
So stay tuned for that.
Okay, let's talk Dateline.
Let's start with who knew what about her life?
At the time, she disappeared.
Well, you know, that ended up being sort of the crux of this story.
You know, Akia Eggleston was not the first and will not be the last.
22-year-old woman who was, in the eyes of the law, certainly an adult and was making adult decisions like I'm going to have kids.
She already had one two-year-old and she's about to have another one.
But what was interesting about this was she, I think, deliberately did not tell her parents who she was involved with, who the baby's father was.
I'm pretty sure because they would have said – way earlier than her disappearance.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
This is a mistake.
You need to reevaluate what you're doing here.
When they would talk to Akia...
She would say, everything's fine.
I'm doing great.
As her adoptive mom said, everything was rainbows and unicorns.
I think one of the sort of central themes of this story is the idea that if Sean and Angelique, her parents, had known earlier that What they later knew after a police investigation, this could have turned out differently.
It's the sort of thing that gives parents nightmares, as you point out and as we've recounted again and again in our stories.
When young women die violently, it's usually because of something that happened in the relationship.
Yeah.
I mean, the leading cause of death for pregnant women is homicide, which is a chilling statistic because you think it's going to be some kind of medical complication.
But not only is it homicide, but it's almost always someone –
Known to the victim.
Almost always, yeah.
And, you know, it's the classic story.
It always goes back to Shakespeare, doesn't it?
It's a love triangle.
People are...
Jealous and angry and bad things happen.
I mean, here was a love triangle or sort of quadrangle in this case.
I mean, you have Kia, you have Michael Robertson, the baby's father and a baby.
One of the most terrible people I've covered on Dateline, I'm going to say.
You have his girlfriend, Haley, who hated Akia for sleeping with her boyfriend, fiancé at the time.
And then you have this guy, Stefan, who was... a very good friend of Akia adored her clearly.
I think, you know, wanted her to choose him.
Um, and if she had, um, She'd probably be around today.
But she was stuck on this bad boy, and he killed her and the baby.
Stuck on a bad boy.
Where have I heard that before?
Yeah, on Dateline is the answer.
Repeatedly.
And the other thing that has been on Dateline repeatedly and you and I also have both done stories about that, is a young woman, or multiples of young women, Who wind up in landfills, in garbage dumps.
Well, you know, this case came together because of cell phone technology analysis, which was done brilliantly by – by the FBI, which got you know, got involved here.
The FBI would normally, you call the FBI and say, my relative's missing.
I mean.
No, this is not an FBI case for sure.
No, I mean, they're going to say, look.
So I was a little surprised that they were involved in this.
Yeah, well, this was an hour that we did, not two hours.
A little more time, we would have explained this.
But you know, one of the things I first said is like how did the FBI get involved in what's essentially a local missing persons case?
And the answer is Summer Baugh, that agent that we interviewed.
She picked up the phone and she heard – the agony on the other end when Akia's family was calling.
And she could tell how worried they were and how at the end of her rope, Akia Zantzenobia was.
And that made her sort of think of reasons why the FBI might be able to get involved.
Like, maybe this is a trafficking case.
We don't know.
That would be our jurisdiction.
Maybe this is a kidnapping.
We don't know.
All of that sort of made them think, all right, we're going to go ahead here.
And they did.
And the FBI is like so good at analyzing technical data and things like that.
It's phenomenal.
I had the privilege one time of being introduced to some of that technology technical ability at an FBI station out west.
And what they're able to do with their little black boxes and things that look like they come out of you know, Dr Who?
It's quite remarkable.
They made a huge difference here.
Because, you know, Baltimore PD is like almost every other department in the country in that They don't have enough people doing these jobs.
And on a case like this, which is a missing persons case at first, but then maybe a homicide later, maybe a double homicide, you don't know.
There's no body.
That is not – a one-person job.
That's the kind of thing where the more people you put on it, the more information you're going to bring in.
And a lot of departments aren't able to do that.
And in this case, bringing the FBI in, I think definitely was an enormous help.
You know, an analysis of a huge sort of data dump that revealed everything, like where everybody's phones were, like they knew that a key has stopped posting at 522.
Okay, well, let's look at where everybody else was at 522 that day.
Haley, the other woman in this who clearly hated Akia, was with her mom and also didn't really have any way of getting – she didn't have a car.
She didn't have any way of getting to where Akia was.
That seemed to get her off the hook.
The best friend, Stephan, he was at work.
So where was Michael Robertson?
Well, he was there.
He was at Akia's apartment at 522.
And that made him the prime suspect and pretty soon the only suspect.
As soon as that information became available.
Boom, the case was solved.
Except you've got to get him to say where she is and what happened.
And he never quite did either one of those things.
First, he denies being there.
Then he admits...
Oh, yeah, she got me a ride share over there.
So, yeah, I was there.
So now he's changed his story.
He's admitted being with her on the last minutes.
We know that she was alive.
And then he says oh yeah, that night, that's the night we got into it, which is as close as he got to a confession.
But he admits they were together and they fought.
Then after that, he makes some internet searches.
And what he's searching is, where does Baltimore trash go after it's collected?
Which is why investigators thought he put her in the dumpster outside her apartment.
It's pretty good circumstantial evidence.
I think so.
I mean look, I think a lot of people, particularly sometimes reporters who cover crime, are in a kind of abusive relationship with, with circumstantial evidence, which is they talk down about it.
And you hear things like they built a strong if circumstantial case.
Circumstantial evidence is pretty powerful.
They can be the best cases.
You know, circumstantial evidence doesn't lie.
Circumstantial evidence can't be accused of being drunk or not putting on its eyeglasses, or changing its story over the years.
Like if your cell phone is at this location on this date.
That's going to be true five years from now.
You don't have to remember anything.
Yeah.
I was afraid at the penultimate act of that episode that you were going to tell me they decided they didn't have enough evidence to go to trial.
Yeah.
They made the right decision.
That's for sure.
Good for them and good for Kurt Bjorklund who prosecuted it, who had never done a no body case before but went ahead.
And you know, in this case, Akia's pregnancy and her near term status made the no body case possible easier to prosecute.
Because when somebody who, for example, let's say, is not pregnant disappears, defense attorneys say to the jury and to everybody else on the courthouse steps you can't tell me that Jane Smith isn't about to walk in the door right now, because we don't know where they are right.
But when somebody is that pregnant, about to give birth, suddenly doesn't show up at her baby shower, and then what?
She doesn't tell anybody that the baby's been born, or that she's moved away or that she's run off.
None of that makes any sense.
Her pregnancy made the no body case easier to sell to the jury.
And I thought Bjorklund did a great job with it.
Well, interesting tale.
And when we come back, we have an extra clip of your interview with Akia's family.
Thank you.
We've seen so many other stories and done so many other stories where somebody vanishes and a few days later the whole world is looking for her and is upset about it, and it's on television and there's all kinds of attention being paid to the case.
Wasn't the case here.
No.
And again, that is a fairly frequent thing.
A person of color disappears and for some reason it's a different deal.
It's not a blonde-haired, white-haired, white, blonde-haired girl.
Her family did everything they could to get her case sort of covered because they were frustrated with the pace of the police investigation.
And I don't blame them.
I mean, any parents are going to be frustrated, but it took a long time.
Well, you know, it did take a long time.
I think there were times and we talked about this in the story where the family thought the police weren't working on it.
I don't think that was the case.
I think they were working on it.
There is a perception out there in the public that police work is quicker and easier than it actually is.
And that's because of TV dramas, which wrap everything up in 59 minutes.
Subpoenas are almost never answered the same day.
They can take months.
When phone records arrive, it doesn't come with a note that says, by the way.
I think you'll see the murderer's phone was at this location on this day.
You get this mountain of cell phone data, which can be very, very daunting.
But there's a couple of truths here.
One is that cases like that don't get covered in local media.
I'm not talking about police attention.
I'm talking about the local media.
Somebody goes missing.
If they are from a good part of town, local TV stations show up.
If they're not from as good a part of town, their families are frequently told.
This is not newsworthy, which is what Angelique was told when she tried to get people to cover.
Cover a story.
And that builds a fire under local law enforcement and under prosecutors who may be the ones asking for those warrants from a judge or magistrate.
When there is a big public interest in a story, when it's in the newspaper, when it's on the news, when police are getting asked every day, what are you doing to find so-and-so?
That's when things tend to happen a little bit more quickly.
The Black and Missing Foundation, how long has that existed?
Do you know?
Well, I did a story about how TV covers only white people in 2005.
Remember it well, yeah.
And Black and Missing was founded a couple of years after that.
In like 2007 or 2008.
And since then, they've done just tremendous work.
They just recently this month came out with a sort of a or a handbook that law enforcement can read.
That will help them.
Because look, this all works better when the family and law enforcement are not antagonists and are not angry at each other, when they are partners in solving this.
And one of the things that Black and Missing does is try to facilitate that sort of partnership in which families are engaged with law enforcement but not battling them.
It gets local newspapers, TV news organizations and other organizations online news organizations to sort of focus on a case that otherwise might have sort of not been on their radar.
So that's one of the huge values of what Natalie and Derek could do at Black and Missing.
I imagine they're staying pretty busy.
Oh, yeah.
No, no.
They've got their hands full.
This was a story that was initially featured on Missing in America.
Well, yeah, this started – this is our online series.
And then it became a podcast which has finished the third series of that, which is available wherever you get your podcasts.
A key story was originally featured on the Dateline Missing in America digital series and then it ended up being a TV story when it was prosecuted as a murder and solved.
And so you know you can go to our website and there you'll find all of hundreds of Missing in America cases.
And again just like this one.
I mean, if you know anything, you could offer families some huge, huge relief just by saying what you know.
So...
This little piece of extra sound is it was something that did not play in the episode.
And it is with Sean and Angelique, Akia's parents.
And what they're talking about is exactly the importance of local news media in finding missing people.
And we hope the media will do better in reporting these types of stories.
So do I.
There's so many missing.
Indigenous, it's so many, just across the board.
I kind of feel it's an epidemic.
All colors and ages, what is going on in this country?
What's happening?
And why can't we do better?
It's always different until it's you.
It is a central problem, sure.
And then that's a I mean it's always different until it's you is something that could be on almost any Dateline episode.
And I will say this about her family, about her parents.
You can only imagine the agony that they have gone through these past years.
And even now, when the case supposedly has been resolved.
If you're a parent, you cannot but wake up in the morning and think every day That my loved one and my grandchild is lying in a dump somewhere in a landfill.
It's the worst.
And it's also why you know, if you talk to them, they will say this case isn't resolved because they don't have anybody to bury.
And they are people of faith and they –
Their faith carried them through this and I know it's killing them that they don't have her and the baby to bury.
Well, after a break, we are going to come back to answer some of your questions from social media about this episode which was— fronted by our good friend Josh.
So we are back and now we have some social commentary on Josh Michael, which is episode.
And let me see what negative things are said.
I'm just looking for the negative ones here.
Of course.
That's all you care about.
No.
You're just like the rest of the media, always trying to tear me down.
Well, it's so easy to do.
You're such a nice target.
But the comments I find here are really all very sensitive.
I wish her friend would have told someone what he saw.
Akia's body would have been found, possibly.
And it's disgusting how people of color don't get front page news when missing, especially when she was pregnant.
That is from Love Sinity.
Well, you know Akia's friend Stefan.
He was a very sweet guy, very good guy, who was looked at by police but I think was never considered a serious suspect the way Michael Robertson was.
He admitted during police interviews that he went to her apartment before anybody reported her missing, before the baby shower.
And he saw the hole in the wall, maybe made by moving the dresser.
And he saw stuff in bags.
All that made him wonder, but it didn't make him wonder enough to call the police.
Or to call the family.
Which would have gotten that part of the investigation started a little quicker, maybe.
In the end, it probably wouldn't have made a difference.
If prosecutors and police are right, she was already dead by then.
But it would have sped some things up, definitely.
Lucy Barnes writes, ladies, choose your partners wisely.
Also at the heart of this tale.
I mean, this is, you know, ladies, raise your standards.
You hear that on the Date with Dateline podcast all the time, and it is true.
I mean, Michael Robertson was a terrible guy.
He clearly couldn't make up his mind between the two women in his life, Haley and Akia.
And probably what happened in those last moments together is when Akia realized, oh, this is all BS.
We're not getting an apartment together, and I'm going to be left out in the cold with this baby.
And I think that that is the genesis of the fight that probably ended Akia's life.
Jiffy Pop Culture has a comment about Akia's daughter.
And I was wondering about this myself.
Yeah.
Where is Akia's little girl?
Okay, a lot of people ask this during the broadcast and afterwards.
Akia's daughter was not living with her at the time.
She was sort of sharing custody, although custody makes it sound like it was a legal arrangement.
It wasn't.
It was one that Akia worked out with this woman who was married, the baby's godmother, the little girls.
She was two.
Emery was two when this happened.
And she was living with this other woman, her godmother.
And so she was not part of what happened that day.
Akia was seeing her whenever she could, like every week or something.
But you know she was trying to like work and manage her pregnancy and bring in some money too, because goodness knows, Michael Robertson wasn't doing that.
And so that little girl stayed with the woman who was raising her after Akia died, and she's still with her.
She's doing well.
She was two when this happened in 2017, so she's like nine or ten now, and I think doing well.
Well, there's a silver lining at least.
Well, there were quite a number of social media posts for this episode this week.
It was good to see a new episode.
Good to see you there.
And I think the posts were pretty much 100 that this was an excellent episode and the kind of thing that we ought to be doing more of.
That's right.
I know it's particularly galling for you to see me receiving any kind of praise.
True.
I'm sorry.
Did you see what a big man I was to recognize it?
I really thought – you've grown, I think, is really where I'm going with this.
All right.
Well, thank you very much, Josh.
Thank you.
That is our talking dateline for this week.
And thanks, everybody, for listening to us.
Remember, if you have any questions for us about our stories, reach out to us on social at Dateline NBC.
And we'll see you Fridays on Dateline on NBC.
