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I'm Oprah Winfrey.
Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is you.
Taking time to be more fully present.
Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.
Welcome to part two of our conversation.
I love the chapter on looking for the light in the cracks.
Yeah.
That's a great Leonard Cohen song, which I love that.
As the noise of the news continues to get louder, meaner, more confusing.
Isn't it more than we... It's unbelievable what people say to one another.
And actually I mean since I grew up in politics my whole life, I've never heard a political leader say use the language that this president uses about other individuals.
I mean, the name calling.
And I think that's challenging to people who are trying to parent.
It is.
Yeah, and who are trying to have discourse themselves.
How do you have any kind of discourse when the leader of your nation is- Using like really juvenile names to call people?
Yeah.
So it's more confusing, more divisive, more violent and more heartbreaking, you say.
And I've found myself trying to look for the cracks in between.
And lately I've been choosing to widen my gaze beyond the daily news I consume and seek out the good, the light, the love and the truth that's shining through the cracks.
Surprisingly, I don't have to look very far, you say, because I see so many great examples of light, love and integrity everywhere I look.
Yes, I do.
I think that's what this moment is here to show us, actually.
I couldn't agree more.
People are so awake.
People are so aware.
And I hope that's one of the things you know people have been coming up like oh my God, what do you think is happening?
What's happening?
I said what's happening is a chance for, one, people to get involved.
What's happening is a chance for people to wake up, to learn about their government, to learn about who has a voice and who doesn't, who can jump in and who can't.
And the answer is anybody can jump in, right?
And everybody is jumping in.
So I think that that's the good news of this moment.
I think also the chance...
Think of what it's like to be DACA a child who was brought here and had no.
That's so terrifying right.
So it's terrifying.
But I think if you are that child and you look and you see the vast majority of people in this country want you here.
The vast majority of people in this country are on your side.
And so I think you have to widen your gaze with all of this when people say, we're all divided.
I don't believe that.
I believe, if I widen my gaze there are many more people who quote are in the purple nation, which is the combination of the red and blue who say you know, I'm a little Democrat.
I'm a little Republican.
I believe in this country.
I'm proud to be here.
I want the best.
And I see people all around me.
You interview people all the time who are doing extraordinary work.
But the media, the mainstream media, doesn't focus on them and doesn't focus.
That focuses on the noise.
That focuses on the division.
That focuses.
The majority of the news is about one man and everybody's reaction and their inner actions with that one man.
Yes, rising to the level of hysteria.
Yeah, and I'm trying to have a completely different conversation, and it's one that I find so many other people want to have as well.
They want to talk about all the other stuff That's going on.
All the people who are running, who are getting involved, all the people starting nonprofits, looking at business as a way to create social change.
There's so much good going on.
So I read that and then I go look over here.
I love what you just said about the purple nation.
I think there's so much negativity on both sides.
Yes, of red states and blue states and people rising to the level of hysteria to meet each one, that there are far more people who are leaning purple than ever before, don't you think?
Absolutely.
And I identify myself that way.
So I grew up with everybody saying Republicans were bad people, because I grew up in this big Democratic family.
And then, of course, I became a Democratic first lady in a Republican administration.
And I had a firsthand view of, wow, there's some Republicans who are really good people.
They have good ideas.
They come into this space the same way that Democrats I've met.
And, wow, there's a lot of Democrats over here who share the same values, share the same hopes.
And there's some Democrats over here who are not so good people.
And so everybody has good and bad, like all of us, right?
So I thought to myself, you know, I saw both parties up close.
I saw both parties beholden to their own interest groups.
And so after watching all of that, I decided, you know what, I don't want to be a part of that.
I don't want to be in a part of like you're bad, i'm good, he's good, she's bad.
And so i became an independent.
Because i think once you're an independent, people listen to you differently.
They don't immediately think you are bad, even though people think i'm from this big democratic family and they think you're a liberal democrat, that's it.
I can't even talk to you.
Well, that's no talk to me.
I did the same thing became an independent.
You did?
I did.
Purple party.
Purple nation.
Purple nation.
But I think that that is, I think naming something.
I would think that would have been a harder decision for you.
It was.
Coming from such a democratic family.
It was really hard.
And it was about my identity.
You know, I was like, I'm an Irish Catholic Democrat.
Wait a minute, if I'm not an Irish Catholic Democrat, I'm an Irish Catholic Independent.
Okay, I named it.
That's what I am.
You know, I'm someone who's seen both parties up close.
I'm someone who has seen the good and the bad in both parties.
And I do believe that, as long as we have this team and that team, Conversations are going to be divisive.
People oftentimes will just vote for someone because a party tells them to and they don't have to do any work to see who they are.
So I think by being an independent, it makes you work a little bit harder talking to people.
Why did you become that?
What do you think?
What are your values?
Who are you?
Than just assuming someone is something.
Because a Republican in the South is very different from a Republican maybe out here in California or up in the Northeast.
So we have these labels and we don't get to know who the person is at all.
Yes, and I think we need to do more talking and consideration of what are the things we actually do agree on.
What are the values that we all hold to be important to us as a nation?
Raising our children and being able to move forward.
I mean, what do we care about in this world?
Absolutely.
I talk in there about the power of care.
I used to always think that caring and kindness were kind of weaker values.
And I have since, in the last 10, 15 years, seeing them up close and seeing how strong you have to be.
To actually care.
To actually care.
And how much intestinal fortitude.
That's an action word.
That is an action word, caring, kindness.
I mixed that up.
I thought it was kind of in a weak value because... A soft skill.
A soft skill.
And that's a tough skill.
And so I think kind of who we are as a nation, how do we care about people who age?
What is our policy about that?
What do we value in this country today at this time?
Would you ever consider politics?
I've thought about politics and running for office my whole life before I even had any right to think about running for office, because people just come up to you when are you going to run?
When are you going to run?
And even when I go out on this book tour, why don't you run?
Why don't you run?
And I used to think that my mother really wouldn't think I was great unless I ran.
And that unless I jumped in like all the boys and that she didn't have a chance.
So I had to fulfill her vision for herself.
And I don't feel that anymore.
And I think that I have a voice as I think everybody has a voice.
And I think I'm using it effectively in the space that I'm using it.
And I just don't see politics for me.
I think I did really well as First Lady of California.
I really enjoyed it.
I can use my voice.
Certainly now everyone and their sister has taken your idea of the Women's Conference.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, there is a lot of them.
There's a lot of women's conferences.
There's a lot of women's conferences.
Yeah, you started it, but dear Lord.
I know, and I actually, people say to me, why don't you start again?
Why don't you do it again?
I say, it's everywhere now.
Even the language that was at the women's conference, the colors, everything about it, except for the Minerva Awards.
But they've.
People have started other awards yes, like that, which is, I think, the highest form of flattery.
And I remember walking out onto the last women's conference and I'm like done, it's not going to get any better than this.
Everybody's emulating it.
Let it go, I'm done, I'm done, I'm not done, I'm done with that.
But I feel very alive at this age, which is a surprise to me.
I feel like there's a lot I wanna do.
I wanna talk a lot more about women's health.
I really believe I can help find a cure for Alzheimer's.
I really believe my voice can be helpful in talking about how we age in this country and intergenerational living.
And eliminating the shame around it.
Around age.
Yes.
Oh, yes.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah, the pressure around aging.
And, you know, I mean, I sit and listen to my daughters and their friends.
Yeah. in their early 20s, what they talk about, I'm just like, oi, oh, ow.
It's so sad to me that they feel this pressure to not have a wrinkle, not have a bump, not have a crease.
And they're in their 20s and they're like, oh my God, if I don't have these breasts, if I don't get this taken care of, if I don't get that taken care of, how will I age?
And these are all people in their 20s.
And so it's really a, you know, I never even heard of Botox until I think I was 50.
I know, I remember you said to me, this was a couple years ago, you said, have you used Botox?
And I said, I haven't used it.
You said, you and I are the only two people in the state of California.
That was like, yeah, that was like 10 years ago, but I had never even heard of it.
I had never even heard.
And I think there's a lot of pressure like, you know, to sit here on camera, right?
I stopped looking at comments that people started saying about myself like oh my God, Maria Shriver, I look at my neck.
You know people are like why don't you do something to your neck?
Neck, I'm like, maybe I'll put a clip behind it or something.
I say that to my kids, I'm like, maybe I'll put one.
Nora Ephron wrote the book, I Feel Bad About My Neck, right?
I Feel Bad About My Neck.
It says somebody, you know, so it's, I had.
Maybe I'll put a clip on it.
I did, because I do, you know, you do that.
I remember my mother who had the most kind of wrinkled face of anybody I'd ever seen.
It was a classic wrinkled face.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, but I remember she would sit in the car and she'd do this like that.
And I find myself oftentimes doing that.
But I remember what was the great thing about my mother was that she never I don't think she even put any face cream on practically, but so she was extreme.
But I think she was always the most interesting person in the room because of what was going on in here and because of what she was doing in the world.
So that's kind of my model, although I'm definitely more vain than she is.
I pay more attention than she did.
I think it's a different time, but she was always to me like Focus on your brain, improve your brain, be interesting, because that's how you walk in the room.
How do you raise kind yet ambitious... Challenge.
...children?
Yeah.
How do you do that when you're coming from the Kennedy, Shriver...
Schwarzenegger legacy and trying to define your own way in a world that is looking to your name and your fame.
What is the staple in your home that keeps your kids grounded?
Well, you probably have to ask them that.
I talk to them a lot about that.
Because I grew up in a similar way.
So I feel like that they can at least, even though they say to me, it's nothing like it is now.
It's not like it wasn't for you.
It's much different for us.
That's what they tell me.
As in harder?
Yeah, they say much harder.
It felt hard to me at the time, but they feel like it's super hard.
But I say to them, look, at the end of the day, you're you.
You will surround yourself with people who know you and love you.
That's your job, to have a good group of friends around you.
I expect you, and so does your dad, expect you to be kind and compassionate.
That's what I expect of you.
And I expect you to work hard.
So I don't expect you to make a lot of money, but I expect you to work hard as does your dad.
And so I also expect you to do something that's good in the world, meaning find a passion, find a charity, find a nonprofit that can use your help.
And so I'm not going to tie loving you to how you do.
But I do expect you to be kind and loving.
And you will always be accepted here in this home.
You will always be loved here.
It's a non-negotiable.
You will have that all the time.
And I think people will always think you don't have to work.
It came easy.
So you're gonna probably have to work twice as hard.
That's how I felt.
And then you're also gonna have to be able to put on blinders and eliminate the people who say you only got this because of who you are.
You got it easy, you got this, you got that and you just got to keep going, got to keep your head down and keep moving forward.
Everybody has their stuff, everybody has challenges, but you're blessed and i think just keep trying to reiterate to them acts of kindness.
Let them see acts of kindness.
I think they see both their dad and I working.
So I could say to them, I don't have to work at this age.
Your dad doesn't have to keep working, but we keep working.
And so it's important to work.
So I just try to tell them that both your grandparents worked till the day they died.
They both tried to make the world a better place.
And that to me is your legacy.
One of the chapters that you talk about in I've Been Thinking is forgiving.
Was it a challenge for you to learn to forgive?
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Because were you confused about what it actually means?
Yeah, I think everybody is.
I think everybody's confused and I think people think oh, I've forgiven this, and then boom, it comes back up again two months later and then you go.
Well, I have to still work on that.
So I think forgiveness is a work in progress.
I think I was always explained to me that forgiveness was about the other person.
And once again, the person is not in the picture.
And so I remember healer I want to see.
Somebody said to me, don't say that you go to healers or therapists or anything.
I'm like, I look at, I'll go anywhere.
I'm open to different religions, different points of view, different traditions.
And a healer said to me you know, the path to forgiveness starts with yourself.
Forgiving yourself, being kind to yourself, being compassionate to yourself.
And Richard Rohr.
I went to a retreat with my brother Timothy, to hear Richard Rohr and he said look, if you have a soul and a heart, so does the other person, so does everybody else.
And if you deserve to be forgiven, so does the other person, whomever they may be.
That was really helpful to me, because I realized that if I want to be loved, then anybody who's ever hurt me also wants to be loved.
If I want to be forgiven and not judged, so does anybody who ever hurt me.
And I think that there's always.
My daughter was struggling with a, you know, an issue in a friendship.
There's so many areas of our lives that require forgiveness.
So I think it's something to get good at early, young.
Yes, because- Yeah, because you're gonna have to use it over and over again.
Yeah, it's like developing a muscle.
Yeah, yeah.
And I think it's like look it, if you're in a family, there's always things that need to happen with forgiveness in a family.
If you have siblings, if you have in-laws, if you have nieces and nephews, if you have friends, if you're in a marriage, if you're a boyfriend girlfriend, whatever I always say to my kids, how you go in and how you go out are really important.
And that's also with the job.
How you go in and how you go out, really important.
How you go in a relationship and how you go out, really important.
And so do the work now that gets you ready for being able to be good at forgiveness, because you're going to have to practice forgiveness.
I don't care who you are.
Yeah, it's showing up.
Yeah.
And I say to my kids, you're going to have to practice letting go.
You're going to have to practice forgiveness, kindness, empathy, compassion.
You're going to have to understand grief.
They have a book on it.
My daughter, my kids are like, I'm like, has anybody read the book?
And they're like, no, we have the audio version.
We've heard it over and over.
They're like, we don't have to read the box.
At dinners?
Yeah, that's right.
That's what Christina's like.
Because you do the same thing at your dinner table that your parents did with you.
I remember the first time I went to your house and, oh God, I was, gosh, I had so much anxiety.
You said you were in the bathroom or something.
I was in the bathroom yes, with the door closed, because you have to talk about what's important to you and what did you do and what have you accomplished today?
I was like, this is my girlfriend and she has a show.
I don't think I said little show.
I think she has a talk show.
And I think my parents are like, talk show?
What is that?
What is that?
What are you doing for the world?
Yeah, what is she doing for the world?
Yes.
That's right.
So they were very happy to see your progress.
I know.
My mom actually told me over the years how happy, she was proud of me.
She was proud of you?
Yeah.
Wow.
She did.
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Wow.
Yeah.
That's big.
That is big.
That is big.
That is big.
Yeah.
I thought it when she said it.
Yeah.
Because, you know, I thought if any woman that I've ever known in this world who could have been president and could have led this country forward would have been your mother.
Yeah.
If there's any woman alive.
You know, I had this conversation with her, right?
It's like two years before she died.
And I said to her, mommy, you know, don't you feel like so great?
We're sitting at a Camp Shriver in her backyard.
She's 85.
And, you know, like you have these five kids, you've been married forever.
You know, all your kids get along.
You've created this worldwide movement.
Don't you feel like so?
Incredible, and she's like, never had any power.
And I was like, what?
She goes, yeah, I never ran for office, so I didn't have any power.
I said, but that's not the only place you get power.
But it was her generation, right?
Her family, which is why I think our family early on beliefs.
If we don't keep checking them, we can take them all the way to our 80s without reevaluating them.
Eunice Shriver would say that at 85.
I never had any power.
Yeah.
And had every honorary degree.
Powerful women on earth.
But she, I'm sure her beliefs were her brothers had all the power.
Her brothers were the success.
And You know there's some degree of truth, because when they walked in the room People went to Teddy.
People went to Bobbi.
People asked her about President Kennedy.
And so then her work was always on behalf of the children.
But this was a charity or something like that.
And I think the book that really details how she crafted legislation, how she crafted policy to change school systems, housing systems, everything that you see.
That she was working behind the scenes, in the scenes.
Yeah, but giving them the credit.
Not getting any credit, yeah.
And so if she were alive today, her beliefs, she'd be raised with completely different beliefs and expectations of a woman and opportunities for a woman.
That she felt, well gosh, You know, the boys were the stars in my family.
You know, I think it's a loss.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think she also, you know.
I hope that when she was quiet she maybe focused on all the incredible things she accomplished.
I don't go a week.
I don't go a day with someone not coming up to me about mommy or daddy.
Yeah.
Well, this month in O Magazine, we're answering the question how to be happy and what being happy means.
Have you gotten to happy yet?
Yeah.
I just wrote in my Sunday paper about yippy moments that I had thought that we actually, particularly at our age, we need to name moments of joy and search them out on a Yippy, yippy moments.
This is a yippy moment.
Yeah.
We're having one right now.
We're having a yippy moment.
So for me, I can feel a yippy moment.
I can feel it inside.
It's not happy what I used to think of what happy.
Happy for me now is like my kids come for dinner.
Yippee.
I have a great conversation with somebody where I feel connected.
Yippee.
You know, someone invites me somewhere.
Yippee.
My brother calls and says, yeah, I want to come and have my birthday with you.
I'm like, yippee.
You know, or it's just and that for me is so much joy, and or someone comes up and tells me their story about Alzheimer's and you know that I helped.
I'm like, wow.
Yippee.
Yippee for us.
Yippee.
I feel good.
What do you think it is that keeps people from finding those yippee moments?
Well, I think maybe they don't know that it's there.
They don't have a name for it.
Our mutual friend Elizabeth Lesser wrote me this morning and said to go with my son and my godson and I was feeling this.
I'm like, oh, that's a yippy moment.
I have a name now.
I have a thing like every day I can look for that yippy moment and I have a name.
And I can look at it in small ways.
I think we all think like it's Disneyland 24-7.
No, the yippies are actually small things.
Small things.
And that has been like an you know eye opening thing for me, that it's the small things.
When someone calls me out of the blue and just goes, I just want to say hi.
I'm like, Yippee.
That is awesome.
And also making sure that you have people around you that you can reach out to, that you can call on that, you can say I need you.
That is really a yippee life that you've cultivated.
Yippee life.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Because there's always going to be really... tough things that happen in everybody's life.
And as we get older, it's going to get tougher and tougher.
In two weeks, I've just buried two people younger than me.
So it gets tougher and tougher.
And you have to be like, wow, today?
Wow.
Yippee.
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Did you know if we switch to Verizon, we can get four phones for $0 plus four lines for $25 a line?
Call me back.
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Call me.
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You end each chapter of the book with a prayer.
How has your faith sustained you?
Totally, 100%.
And every morning, I open my eyes.
It's deepened, widened.
Wow.
I had a lot of Catholic in me growing up because I went to Catholic school.
I then went to the Jesuits.
My parents went to mass every single day.
We had Lenten altars.
My grandmother was constantly talking about her faith, but I didn't feel it like in there, in there.
I have a good community in my neighborhood.
You still go to church on Sundays?
Yes, I go to church.
And I've also started going with my son.
They've now moved into a different, they go to different church and which they have a younger pastor who's married, who has kids, who's kind of speaking to them from the Bible and ways that they find it more modern than going with me on Sunday.
But once in a while, one of them will still go with me.
You write about getting to what you call the open field.
Yeah.
Purple out there.
A lot of lavender in the open field.
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
So the open field, as you know, is an idea that I so Rumi has been a big influence in my life and my daughter was like Beyonce knew about Rumi before you.
I'm like, no way.
I've been talking about Rumi way before Beyonce.
I said, you actually knew when she chose that name, because you had heard me talking about Rumi.
And they're like, yeah, you're right, mommy.
Anyway, so he has this thing that says, out beyond wrongdoing and rightdoing, there's a field.
I'll meet you there.
And I kind of took it one step further and I was like out beyond right doing and wrong doing, out beyond shame expectation guilt fear, whatever that is for you, there's an open field.
I'll meet you there.
And I remember saying to our other mutual friend, Martha Beck I said Rumi wrote about the open field.
And she goes, what?
And I said, he said there's an open field out beyond fear and judgment.
And she goes, Maria, I went and looked that up. that's not Rumi.
Rumi wrote, there's a field.
You made all that other stuff up.
And I was like, wow, well, that's actually came right out of here.
That's what I try to manifest in my own life.
That's my vision, for where I'll be standing is in an open field, out beyond my anxiety, out beyond my fear, out beyond my judgment and expectations, all these things, that I'll be there.
And I manifest who I want in that field, what I want it to look like.
And I project myself forward.
And that's what I, every day, I kind of just stay focused on getting to the open field.
You're in there with me.
I'm right there.
Yippee.
Yippee.
But I think it helps me on my daily life to think like I want to be in a place out beyond judgment, out beyond guilt, out beyond fear, out beyond shame, out beyond expectation, out beyond division.
Out where you are your truest...
Highest expression.
And where everybody else is there too.
Everybody else is there too.
And everybody, it's so wild, Oprah, because I meet so many people who want to be in that too.
And they don't have a name.
That's what everybody wants.
They want.
They just don't know how to describe it.
We don't name it.
You don't name it.
Yeah, so it's the open field is yippy moments where people are, you know, sometimes when I describe it to people, they're like, are you talking about a co-op or what?
I'm like, no.
I'm like, no.
I'm really talking about a place that is in my heart and in my mind, but I really believe we can live like that.
I really believe that that's my vision for this country.
It's how I think people want to live, and I meet people who are already living that way.
I meet nuns I write about in the book who are living like that in community.
I don't think we're meant to live isolated and behind walls and not trusting or knowing our neighbors or not communicating with people and being so hostile and calling people names and thinking that you belong here and you don't, and I do and you don't.
I don't think that's how we're meant to live.
And so I don't believe in that.
I believe this is how we're meant to live and be and act and connect.
Can't wait to meet you out there in the open field.
Let's get going.
Yeah.
Yippee.
Yippee.
Thank you, honey.
Love you.
Hey there, podcast listeners.
I have exciting news.
We're launching a brand new podcast in addition to Super Soul Conversations.
It's called Oprah's Masterclass.
The Masterclass podcast allows you to hear the greatest life lessons from some of the most respected and renowned actors musicians, public figures and athletes in their own words.
Listen as Jay-Z, Justin Timberlake, Ellen DeGeneres, Shaquille O'Neal, Reba McEntire, Dwayne Johnson, and Jane Fonda, just to name a few, share what they've learned about life.
I believe that there's something to be learned from every experience, and everyone can use their life as a class.
Oprah's Masterclass podcast will be available July 19th on Apple Podcasts.
Subscribe now and listen free. go to applepodcast.com slash Oprah's Masterclass.
I'm Oprah Winfrey, and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
You can follow Super Soul on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook.
If you haven't yet, go to Apple Podcasts and subscribe, rate, and review this podcast.
Join me next week for another Super Soul Conversation.
Thank you for listening.
Hey honey, it's mom.
Did you know if we switch to Verizon we can get four phones for $0 plus four lines for $25 a line?
Call me back.
Me again.
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Call me.
It's Mom.
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That's the one we're talking about.
I'll send you text.
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Four new lines on unlimited welcome and auto pay.
See Verizon.com for details.
Thank you.
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