I'm Oprah Winfrey. Welcome to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
I believe that one of the most valuable gifts you can give yourself is time, taking time to be more fully present.
Your journey to become more inspired and connected to the deeper world around us starts right now.
Emotional Intelligence, Compassion, Being in the Flow.
We explore these groundbreaking concepts with pioneering journalist, best-selling author and psychologist Dr.
Daniel Goldman. I've known Daniel Goldman for over 20 years.
He opened our eyes to a new way of thinking about the difference between IQ and EQ, our emotional intelligence.
Daniel Goldman unravels the mystery of the relationship between our brain, our emotions, and what he calls the scientific case for spirituality.
His exhaustive research on how our brains regulate emotions culminated in his groundbreaking book, Emotional Intelligence.
It became a phenomenon spending over a year and a half on the New York Times bestseller list, shifting the way we define what it means to be really smart.
So, this book, Emotional Intelligence, it was landmark.
It was a landmark. It was revolutionary.
And I later have since read that the Harvard Business Review actually called it a paradigm shattering idea.
One of the most influential books of the last two decades, Emotional Intelligence.
And I had a big aha moment reading this book because it was the first time I suddenly got one of the reasons why I'd been able to be so successful in life because there were so many people always who were smarter than I, who had higher IQs than I, who were more intellectual than I.
And then suddenly I thought, but I got them on the EQ.
You sure do. I got them on the EQ.
That was the big aha for me.
Because I grew up, both my parents were like college teachers and I grew up with this kind of myth.
It's the lie we all get in school.
That how well you do in school, it's going to be how well you do in life.
Actually, you get in life, not true.
It's how you manage yourself, how you hand your relationships.
I mean, sweetie, I have to say your empathy is like Olympic level.
And I think that's one of the secrets of your success.
I didn't know that until I read this and I thought, oh, that's what it is.
It's my ability to feel what other people are feeling, have compassion for what other people are going through.
Not only feel that, but like internalize.
And no, it really matters to people.
Yes. You know, I mean, I don't care if you're a valedictorian.
It doesn't help you one bit toward understanding other people, sensing what they feel, knowing what matters to them, knowing how to put it.
I mean, that's what you've done so beautifully.
Well, thank you for that.
You share in the book why a lot of people with 160 IQs are working for people with 100 IQs or less.
I mean, so the smartest people are often not the best leaders and certainly not the best bosses.
I once was giving a talk to a room full of CEOs and I said, how many of you were valedictorians?
Like smartest kid in your class.
Two, three hundred people, three hands went up in the room.
It's not related. This is the big, I think, myth that the book shatters.
And there was an eye opener for me is that your IQ, your academic abilities, your cognitive brilliance is not what's going to matter the most.
Actually, that's kind of threshold.
Get you in the game. But once you're in the game, it's how you get along with the people, how you handle yourself.
So your IQ can tell you what you can do, but it can't tell you how to do it.
And it's not going to tell you if you're going to emerge as a team leader, as a star.
It's not going to tell you how good a parent you're going to be, how good a spouse you're going to be.
What is the difference because we do a lot of talk on this show about the spiritual, the spirit within things?
So what's the difference between emotional intelligence and spiritual intelligence?
Because the essence of emotional intelligence is a sense of self-awareness.
True. A sense of empathy, and compassion.
Sure. And to me, that's what your spirituality is also about.
I totally agree. I think they're on the same spectrum.
But in this, when I talk about it, to educators, to business people, because you're a scientist first.
And I'm a science journalist.
I talk about the science.
And I talk about self-awareness in every day way.
Do you know what you're feeling?
Why are you feeling it? Do you know how to manage those feelings?
Do you know what someone else is feeling?
Can you put it together and have a good interaction and good relationship?
That's every day. Take all those up and out.
Self-awareness, that's deep reflection.
It's journaling, it's meditation, it's tuning into the spiritual in within you.
Yeah. Self-awareness is having enough time or making enough time to spend alone so that you can be with yourself and have a sense of awareness.
And you have to make time to have that reflection.
Once you have that, then you can handle yourself in a way that aligns with your own sense of purpose, meaning values.
And values, exactly. Yeah.
And that's something that we need to work out a little too, I think.
Yeah. So that's the key to self-awareness.
Managing your emotions.
Well, then after that, it's what I was saying, it's empathy.
To the end of that other person, knowing how they're feeling, and you know, there are three kinds of empathy.
This really opens up to me.
I didn't know it until I read it here.
Three kinds of empathy.
Yeah, one is cognitive empathy.
That means I understand how you see things.
What your perspective is, you know that old saying, walk a mile, and the other person's shoe.
Technically, it means I know what mental models you have.
I know what language to use, so you'll understand me.
So that's one complete set, and it operates in one part of the brain.
And almost impossible to be truly successful in the world without some of that.
Exactly. Is it going to have that?
Yeah. You're going to have that.
And lots of people have bosses who are not.
Absolutely. Or managers who are not.
Yeah, or spouses who are not.
Which makes for poor connection and bad luck.
And poor communication and a lot of problems like at work.
The second kind is a different part of the brain.
It's the social brain, we call it.
And that's sensing in yourself immediately what the other person is feeling.
That means rapport. And you know, you're only going to have rapport if you pay full attention to the other person.
You're going to have chemistry if both of you are paying attention.
And if you're not, you're distracted.
I'm checking my thing. Not going to happen.
So there's this emotional empathy.
The third kind is very important.
It's underrated. It's called empathic concern.
It means if I have someone in my life who's in distress, I'm not just going to feel it.
I'm going to want to help them because I love them.
It draws on a third part of the brain, which is the, we call it the ancient mammalian system for parenting.
Yeah. It's like a parent's love for a child.
If you have that love for someone, then you're going to be there for them.
And that's a different kind.
It's different than cognitive, different to the emotional.
And so the self-awareness, the ability to manage your emotions, having empathy also leads to the next thing.
And that is having great relationships.
I mean, automatically.
Put it all together. Yeah, if you do those three things, you're going to have a better relationship.
Think about it. If you're out of control, you can't manage yourself.
You're going to have terrible relationship.
If you don't tune in, you don't know what's going on on as a person, you're going to be off.
So you need to have all of those three to have a good interaction.
So in a sense, that is a spiritual intelligence also.
Well, yeah. And that last one, empathic concern, is a basis for compassion.
Yes. It's another way of talking about compassion, actually.
Yeah. So I built a school in South Africa, opened in 2007.
Now those girls are in college.
I have 190 kids in college.
20 of them are in the United States, 21, exactly.
And I learned so much from your book in the 90s about flow and being in flow with your life.
Literally, our expression in our family is about whether or not you are in or out of flow.
So when things are going wrong, my kids will call and say, hey, Mamo, I'm out of flow.
Oh, is that, I'm having a bad time.
Yes. It means I'm having a bad time.
I'm out of flow. I go, well, what are you going to have to do to get back in flow?
Oh, that's it. Because your whole life is about that.
Daniel Goldman was one of the first to popularize the idea of flow or being in the zone.
He described it in emotional intelligence as a state in which people become utterly absorbed in what they're doing.
Their awareness merged with their actions.
Well, the things we love doing are the things that get us in flow.
Yes. That's the point. And so if you're in school, if you're a student, you want to be in flow while you're studying.
You want to be in flow in the classroom.
Yes. You want to love learning.
If you're working in a job, you want to find a way to make that your flow.
If you, but really, the things we do by choice, the things we do in our free time are the things that help us get in flow.
And it might be some hobby.
It might be a sport. Right.
It might be being with their kids.
It could be anything. It's different for different people.
But the mark of flow is always the same.
And that is things are going really well.
And I feel really good. Yeah.
That's when you know your own home.
It means you are in alignment with your life, doesn't it?
It does. It means that everything, as you put it, everything's lined up.
Everything's lined up.
So you had this wonderful talk about compassion, about why aren't we more compassionate?
Why do you think we are not more compassionate?
This feeds right into what we're talking about.
You know, if someone is in need in your life, or on the street or whatever it may be, and you're self-absorbed, you're thinking about you're to do this, or you want, you know, you're on yourself on whatever, you don't have the attentional bandwidth to even notice them.
Let alone empathize. Let alone tune in.
Let alone see what's going on, which can lead you to helping.
So the road to compassion starts with pure attention.
If our attention is being robbed, there was a saying cognitive scientist said long ago, he said, what information consumes his attention?
A wealth of information means a poverty of attention.
Interesting. And we get five times more information a day than we did five years ago.
Right, and not really focusing on anything.
It's not a notion. It's a mindfulness about anything.
And I'm glad you brought up mindfulness because that's the antidote.
The antidote is getting intentional about your attention.
And that means being mindful.
Noticing where you're noticing.
Noticing what you're doing.
Is it aligned with what you intended to do?
Mm-hmm. Mindfulness means keeping that alignment.
So can we all improve our emotional quotient?
Absolutely. And that's one of my strong points about emotional intelligence is it's not a fixed thing.
It's not like your IQ. Your IQ stays the same or less through life.
Emotional intelligence is learned and learnable.
We start learning it in childhood and if we need to get better at something, like I worry too much, we can do that.
The mind is still what we call plastic.
The brain is plastic. Change is through life.
And if you take a systematic approach like with worry, with anxiety, you can purposely learn a way to relax and use mindfulness to notice when you're spinning out and then apply that.
And that changes your pattern.
And you believe that we should start fostering that emotional IQ in the cradle, actually.
Well, I think that parents, good parenting really means helping a child feel that they're cared about, tuned in to, empathized with, and any good parent does that.
Mm-hmm. But if you have that base, that's a cure base, then you can care about other people.
Then you can manage yourself better.
So I think that parents are the first tutor in emotional intelligence.
So we can teach ourselves and we can teach our children to have a higher emotional quotient.
Absolutely. And in schools, this is called social emotional learning.
There's a lot of it going on.
They're hoping to make it national, part of the national standard.
It should be national. I think it should be international for me too.
I think it should be international.
Well, you know, I have learned at my school that that is what really matters.
I started out looking for one thing.
Interesting. And now I know that having, basically, what social emotional learning is, is developing character.
That's right. And then you can tell you system and what a lot of educators now call grit.
That thing that allows you to keep going and have resilience in the face of failure.
Right. And to self-awareness, to know who you are, all of those things, far more important, actually.
Or certainly equally as important to how well you do in math and time.
Another word for grit is technical.
It's cognitive control.
I was in a school, second grade classroom in Spanish Harlem.
These are kids who live in the projects next to the school.
Terrible, you know, the drug dealers are the most successful condition.
All the worst conditions, yes.
Worst conditions you can imagine.
Every day, each kid goes to their cubby, gets a little stuffed animal, finds a place to lie down on the rug, puts that animal on their tummy, and watches it rise on the in-breath, and fall on the out-breath, count one, two, three on the in-breath, one, two, three on the out-breath.
Teachers says, this keeps them calm and focused all day long.
And this, basically, a lesson in mind.
It's a mindful meditation.
And it turns out that from a brain point of view, what you're doing is strengthening the prefrontal cortex, which is the mind's executive center.
It's the boss. It's the one that learns.
It's where we plan, where we decide, and where we become mindful.
And that turns out that if you take kids four to eight, measure their ability in this, and then pick them up in their 30s, it predicts their financial success and their health, better than IQ or the wealth of the family they grew up in.
Really? It's a totally independent, so what you're doing with your kids, with your students, with your children, when you help them delay gratification, focus where you need to focus, and focusing, by the way, is a muscle.
Attention is a flabby muscle in this culture.
That's why we get seduced by our tech devices all the time.
But these kids are in the mental gym.
And it's literal. Every time you bring your attention back from being distracted, like, oh yeah, one, two, three, one, two, three, you're strengthening the circuitry for focusing, for paying attention.
And that's a key to success in life.
Being able to focus. Being able to focus where you want to them, when you want to.
Yeah. Because it doesn't focus also determined flow.
You know, that's interesting to say.
The trick to getting into flow, they're two.
One is to balance your skill level with the challenge.
That's the classical way.
The shortcut is to pay full attention of whatever you're doing right now.
Yeah. Mindfulness gets you right into flow.
Right into flow. Right into flow.
Yeah. You say that today, our attention is literally under siege.
I love that expression, under siege.
Tell me what you mean by that.
Well, here's what I mean.
I mean, let's say we're out to dinner, Oprah.
Right? And the question is, what do we do with our smartphone?
You don't bring it to the table.
Thank you very much. Not a lot of the table.
In our house, it's not a lot of the table.
So I've gone over and over with my wife or other.
And I are out of the restaurant.
We put our phone aside. But you look around, you know, candlelit room, nice tablecloths.
And the couple is looking at their smartphones, not into each other's eyes.
It's like a stealing life is what it's doing.
Life is with people. Life is in those moments when we connect.
And it's continually interrupting.
I'm worried about kids.
I'll tell you why. No, you said it's continual.
I love the line that you it's continually seducing us and selling us.
That's why we're under siege.
Because we've been seduced.
And a lot of people now officially addicted.
Well, I think that the culture is addicted.
Yeah. Yeah, it's very pervasive.
And I'm very concerned, particularly about kids, because the brain was not designed for this.
The brain is designed to learn these skills we're talking about, social and emotional skills face to face.
That's smart when you're little, right?
It starts from the day you're born.
You start to pick up this stuff.
And the brain is shaping itself by what it observes.
And I've seen this two-year-olds, three-year-olds, playing a game, absorbed in this screen, ignoring everything around them.
I'm worried about what's happening to the developing brain.
I'm wondering, are they really going to learn the emotional social skills they need?
This is, for me, another argument for putting this in schools to be sure every kid learns these skills.
Otherwise, it's an unprecedented experiment with an entire generation of the human race.
This is happening globally.
We don't know what the consequence will be in 20 years.
Because the truth of the matter is, when you're two years old and you are consistently on a little machine or device, that is affecting the way your brain forms.
And you're missing out on some crucial lessons, whatever they may be.
You know, when a mom talks to an infant who doesn't understand language, the kid is already learning how you interact.
That's really important.
When a kid is playing some goofball, you know, a two-year-old, three-year-old video game, the brain is not getting what it needs.
It's malnutrition. I love the Bloomberg study that recently vealed people with a smartphone or tablet spend an average of literally three hours a day looking at them.
And that's about 45 days a year when you add up all those hours, spend on our mobile devices.
Isn't that incredible?
That's stunning. Yes. So it's invaded our lives.
For better or for worse.
Yeah. I think that there, I mean, listen, the technology cow is out of the barn.
And this is where we are as a society.
I think the conversations that we're having and the conversations that parents should be having with their children is how are we now going to manage it?
Exactly. It's a conversation every parent should have with a kid.
But then you have to be yourself to have that conversation.
That's right. That's right.
It takes some self-awareness.
It's difficult to have that conversation with your children when you're always on, when you're on the phone having the conversation.
Mom, they'll say, you do it yourself.
Yeah. Is there a difference between spirituality and religion?
I love the story. Can you tell?
I know you know there is a difference.
Can you tell this story about God walking down the street with a devil?
So God and Satan are walking down the street.
And God bends down and she's picked something up.
And it's translucent and glowing in her hand.
And Satan says, hey, what's that?
God says, this is the truth.
Satan says, let me have it.
I'll organize it for you.
And I really believe that I think that truth, I think that finding your real connection with a higher force is very personal.
I don't think we need organizations to manage it for us.
Do some people need organizations?
I think organizations can help.
Yeah. You know, I start this book, emotional intelligence, with the story of a man who was a bus driver, a man and a man.
Who, you know, I got on the bus in a very hot, humid day in August.
It was awful. And I didn't want to talk to anybody.
Didn't know interaction like everybody else in the city.
And I get on the bus. He looks at me and says, how's your day been?
He really looked at me. That kind of shook me up.
And he just spoke to me. Then I know he's talking to everybody on the bus.
Oh, you're looking for suits.
There's a great sale here.
Did you hear about the movie in the cinema here?
The great Matisse show.
And people get off that bus and they say, he'd say, have a wonderful day.
And they say, thank you.
He was an urban saint. That man spreading good feeling in the city that really needed it.
But I later found out he was a pastor of a church in Long Island.
He saw the people on his bus as his flock.
He felt that they were his people.
So he naturally reached out.
He knew he was the connected.
He was ministering. And we never even had a driver.
As he was driving the bus.
And the lesson for me, and this has to do with your earlier question, what can we do?
It doesn't matter what we're doing supposedly.
It's how we do it. You can always use that interaction to help the other person.
Even if you're just helping them feel a little better.
That's an act for good. One of my favorite sayings is that nobody knows enough to be pessimistic.
Interesting. Nobody knows enough to be pessimistic.
All right, explain that.
OK. Well, something good could happen that you don't know about.
For example, I'm very passionate about the impact of human behavior, human activities, the things we buy and do on the systems that support life and the planet.
You know, when we buy something, if you look at its history, its whole life cycle, it degrades in some way or in many ways the systems of method, their technical system support life.
And you could say, well, we're in slow motion suicide.
That's one way to look at it.
Another way to look at it is, you know what?
We need to reinvent everything.
Young people today are very creative.
In the future, things can happen.
We could do things differently in a way that will be compatible with nature.
We didn't know the impacts when we invented this glass.
Well, this glass is made with Bronze Age technology.
You take some sand and ad chemicals and heat it at very high temperature for a long time and has huge negative impacts over its life cycle, particularly if you think of all the glasses made.
However, there are totally different ways to get to the same thing, a container for liquid.
And let's let future generations come up with that and change the course.
But if it's being on this, you know, doom and gloom, we can be hopeful.
So that's a way in which pessimism means you just don't know what's going to happen.
30 years ago, a young Daniel Goldman was teaching a class at his alma mater, Emher's College, when he had a chance encounter with his holiness, the Dalai Lama.
An unlikely pair, the science-based author and the Buddhist monk, formed a deep and lasting friendship, the two meet regularly for what Daniel Goldman calls extended dialogues, discussing everything from neuroscience and ecology to compassion and empathy.
I love this book, A Force for Good, the Dalai Lama's vision for our world.
So you wrote the book with the Dalai Lama?
Well, I wrote the book. It's very interesting.
The Dalai Lama is such an unusual person that the people around him said, would you write this book for his 80th birthday?
Because you can say things about him.
He would never say about himself, the Dalai Lama.
I was there when he won the Nobel Prize just by accident.
I was there at the press conference.
The first question was, how does it feel to win the Nobel Peace Prize?
And he stopped and he said, I feel happy, pause.
And he says, for the people who wanted me to win the prize, I happen to have had tea with him the day before with a friend who's a producer and he talked to the producer about using media for positive messages.
He never mentioned the fact that he had just gotten the call saying he won the Nobel Peace Prize.
That's an unusual human being.
Very different algorithm emotionally and socially.
And he said, guess what?
I just got the call. I got the call.
Who wouldn't do that? But he really genuinely has a universal compassion.
I think he's the person I admire the most in the world today.
Wow. So, and why did you write the book then?
Why did you write the book?
I wrote the book because I feel that his message is absolutely essential for the course of the world.
And I felt honored to be asked and have the opportunity to take his vision for the future and put it in his readable way I could so that people would be inspired.
In chapter two, in a force for good, you talk about emotional hygiene, which I love the idea of that.
What is it and how do we practice good emotional hygiene?
You know, emotional hygiene, he says this.
But all I'm says, you know, we teach kids physical hygiene, wash your hands, brush your teeth, but we don't pay attention to emotional hygiene.
Actually, he's talking about emotional intelligence.
Meaning into what you're feeling, managing your distressing emotions, marshaling your positive emotions.
Absolutely. And tuning into other people, that's emotional hygiene.
So on page 198 of a force for good, you put the negativity of our daily news into perspective.
I mean, I thought this was brilliant.
You write that on any day of the year, you're all going to want to quote this, on any day of the year.
The denominator of kindness will be vastly greater than the numerator of cruelty.
How'd you come up with that?
I think that's amazing.
Yeah. Well, I was at the times for a long time when I was watching journalism and action.
And it turns out that the news is really for the limbic system, the news, the headline news, these deaths, train wreck here, hurricane is about threats.
It's about things that scare us and that we need to be prepared for.
It's a very primitive part of the brain, the limbic system between the ears, it's the emotional brain.
And the news is constantly pumping out the bad stuff for that.
But what is it? It's constantly pumping out fear.
Fear. Exactly. It's set up to create fear.
Fear. It's a fear machine.
And it's so interesting that when I read this, I got another big aha reminding myself of why I personally left the news business.
I'm a friend, Gail, CBS this morning.
She loves it. She loves the news.
I personally felt that it was not in flow with my spirit because I felt every day I'm going out and I'm coming up with the worst story to try to attract people to watch.
Well, actually, there's one reason I love what you do because you're focusing on the good stuff.
The kindness every day is like, you know, what a mom does for her kids.
It's what people do for the people they love, for they care about it, just being considerate, being civil.
And there's so much more of that going on in any given minute than the things that make the headlines.
But you see, the brand receives it disproportionately because it's headline news.
You know, it's what's on the 24-hour news channel.
So literally our brain takes our brain handles or remembers negative better than it does positive.
Yeah. And there's a survival reason for that because it's a reason for that.
We needed to know what was dangerous in order to survive.
We need to be able to think about it.
Don't go that way again.
Yeah. Because there's a lion down there.
The problem is that that brain designed for, you know, 100,000 years ago now makes us, wakes us up in the middle of the night and we dominate.
We go over those worries over and over unnecessarily.
Sometimes you can't stop it and it doesn't do us any good.
And I think the news feeds that.
The news feeds that. Yeah.
And the news is a narrow slice and a carefully curated and selected piece of reality.
So this is what everyone's focusing on today.
Tomorrow it's going to be something.
It might be, you know, someone's beheaded somewhere or somewhere, you know.
It's what's going to fascinate us and what scares us fascinates us.
So there's a kind of a psychological trick going on there too.
The psychological trick is that what scares us fascinates us because we have to think about it.
That's the way the brain is wired.
And that means that we can get this disproportionate sense that the world is going out of control.
When actually our lives are perfectly under control, you know, when you're mindful.
I know. I try not to let stuff in that I cannot control or affect.
And if it's going to cause me to feel negatively, then I know.
The other way to do it is just to be mindful of your reaction to the news.
And that is, I think when the most useful things I've done in my life is to be able to change the relationship, my own relationship to my own thoughts and feelings and have more choice inside.
Because if you just, for example, you read a scary headline and you get agitated and then you worry about that and take it in and you let it control you instead of taking what you need to from it and then moving on.
And mind from this, let's you let go of it and go on.
Yeah. What's the greatest lesson that Dalai Lama has taught you?
The greatest lesson he's taught me is that the world is not as bad as we think and in fact, each one of us has a way we can make it a better place.
The message that he gives all over the world and that gives in the book is that each of us can find a way to act now to improve the future.
Yeah. Sister Joan Chittestor was just on here and she was saying when I was saying, what can we do?
She said, do something.
Everybody can do something.
Exactly. You know, it all feels so big though.
But even in here, you say the Dalai Lama says, I mean, our world problems are gargantuan.
You know, it feels overwhelming sometimes that one person can do anything.
But in essence, what you're saying is something that Maya Angelou taught me.
You plant the trees and the seeds for whose shade you may never stand.
And he says the same thing.
He says, act now even if you won't see the fruit of the action in your lifetime.
Yeah. So, how can each of us begin in our own way to be a force for good?
Every one of us has something we can do to make the world a better place.
It might be as simple as spending time with that lonely old lady down the street, going to a suitcase and building houses, helping build houses for homeless people, trying to change policy.
Each one of us has a lever in the world, our set of levers that we can use in some way to improve things.
We just have to think about it.
Think a little mind for us.
One of the wonderful things you talk about here are the stories we tell ourselves.
How important are the stories we tell ourselves in affecting the way we see ourselves and move through the world?
The stories we tell ourselves give us implicit limits and possibilities.
And so it's very important to have a story which lets you be the fullest you that you can be.
Because if your story you tell yourself is, oh, I'm no good at that or I'm stupid or you know, if it's a negative story, then you're not going to try.
If it's a hopeful story, a story that lets you risk and learn, then you'll be your best self.
Yeah. And as Adali Lama says, we can each start with where we are and with who we are.
That's where we each begin.
And then he says, act to help yourself, to help other people.
It's interesting. Compassion begins with this emotional hygiene, with getting yourself in shape and that lets you open your heart in a way that you can be really effective.
But you were also talking about a book, how every single thing we do, because everybody thinks that if you're going to make change or you're going to transform your life, it begins with big stuff.
But you're saying everything we do, this is on page 215, has some effect, even a simple act the Adali Lama said.
Although it might seem insignificant, when we multiply it by billions of others who might do the same thing, we can have an enormous impact, as simple as turning off the light when you leave a room matters.
I mean, I just love the simplicity of that.
When you think about yourself turning off the light and a million other people turning off the light, look at the light, we look at the electricity we all say.
And he says, you know, we do this all in connection.
We do it in unison, the force for good that he's talking about is each one of us multiplied by all the rest of us.
When you were doing the book, did you sit down with him, did you talk to him?
Yeah, he interviewed him for several hours.
But I've also known him for many years.
He feels we're all the same human being and he relates to everybody equally.
And I respect that so much.
I've learned a lot from that.
I've learned a lot. I want to thank you for offering the planet this idea of EQ and how powerful we can become through empathy, through self-awareness, through building relationship skills.
And I think that that's really going to be one of your great legacies for all of us.
Thank you, it's very kind.
And I want to thank you for being a force for good.
I think that's your legacy.
Thank you. Daniel Goldman, thank you.
Thank you. I'm Oprah Winfrey and you've been listening to Super Soul Conversations, the podcast.
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