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I think sometimes people want to manipulate you into thinking that you should be mistreated.
It's like, I don't think that people should mistreat me.
I think I'm a kind and loving person and that's the energy that I'd like to get back from people.
Hi everyone it's Rosie here, welcome back to Radio Headspace.
As a first -gen kid with a gigantic family, I've always found it hard to set boundaries.
Fortunately, I discovered Nedra Tawab.
Nedra is the bestselling author of Set Boundaries, Find Peace, and drama.
Neatly tucked into a corner of my day.
But what if my whole day?
The conversation, the chores, the moments of joy and frustration were an extension of the practice?
Because it definitely helped me.
Hi Nedra. It's so amazing, amazing, and great to see you here on Radio Headspace.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
It is so wonderful to chat with you again.
This is not our first chat.
So to be back in conversation with you is amazing.
I think we have some good energy together.
I think so, too. And I really have loved every single conversation that we've had, has always left such a deep impression, and I feel like at a time when statistically we're showing that as a society we're really struggling, we couldn't think of a better person to have this conversation with.
So thank you so much again for being here.
You're welcome. You know, as you say that, I'm in thought about this book I'm reading called How To Get It Right the First Time.
We have the next moment or opportunity to try again.
On Housewives initially by the century, right?
And you go from when women started to have mental health issues so it's so interesting that you say like, all of the statistics that we have now when I think in actuality, mental health has been a problem for many, many years and now we just have data on it, right?
So when we think about the 1920s and 1930s like there were Postpartum issues there was anxiety.
There was depression But we didn't have the the data to back it and sometimes we and when you really think about it I don't think it's something we cared about many years ago so now it is something that we are aware of of more often than not.
And that is a beautiful thing to be in this space at a time where people are starting to prioritize mental health conversations and mental wellness.
I find that so interesting that these sort of issues were coming up back then but we didn't talk about them as much.
Why do you think that is?
One, I don't think we knew that we could.
When I think about my grandparents' generation, I think there was a lot of, you just got to keep going.
There was a lot of strange talk.
Like, yeah, that happened but let's move on, let's move forward.
And there's something to that like, sitting with your problems all the time isn't a great thing, it's actually ruminating.
So it's not the best space to be in, but we have to be able to leave our problems for a little bit, but return to them when we actually need to process them.
So I think there is something to the come on, let's keep moving forward and also let's identify what's going on so we can move forward well.
Yeah. Oh my God, I love that.
There's so much that I want to unravel in that, but just to give the listeners a little bit of context and assuming that they have not heard us have conversations in the past, do you mind sharing how you ended up here?
Like what ultimately brought you to working in the mental health field?
I think there are so many things that we don't recognize until after the fact that led, that will lead us to our purpose work.
I didn't even know I wanted to be a therapist.
I went to college, did an undergrad sociology African -American studies major.
But my second year of college, I got an internship at a teen runaway shelter.
And when I tell you, it was like the best feeling ever discovering what you're supposed to do in life.
When I had my first client and my supervisor set in there.
and I'm just listening and asking questions and regurgitating back some of what they said.
I was like, this is it.
But I truly believe that I am standing in my purpose in doing the work of being a therapist, talking to people about mental health and boundaries like it feels like the thing I was supposed to do.
Had you done therapy before or was it just that moment that you were being of service and you just felt like, no, this is the impact that I want to make.
Mm, no, I did therapy before.
I mentioned grad school, and my first year of grad school, something happens when you're taking a lot of social work and psychology classes.
It brings up your stuff.
But what would happen is we would be in classes, and you would have some students who would overshare.
They would try to use the professor as a therapist and we had one professor say to us, hey guys, you could get some free counseling at the counseling center.
Everybody in here needs to go to the counseling center.
If you are in this class and your goal is to help other people, you probably need to work through your stuff.
And so I was like, that's a good idea.
We should go to therapy to figure it out.
I arrived in therapy and I did not know what I wanted to talk about.
I just thought I'm going to go to therapy is a free resource.
I love free stuff. So it's free.
I paid tuition. It's included if they going to get you a t -shirt.
I want that for free.
Too. I went to a went to my 10 free sessions.
And at first, all I talked about was boundary issues.
I was setting boundaries, and I had so much pushback.
I was a first generation college student.
I went to college in the city where I was born and raised.
So I'm surrounded by family and friends.
And I would just have all of these challenges, like so and so wants to borrow $20.
and I told them, no now they're mad at me and so and so asked me to babysit or this friend said that and and the therapist she said you know have you ever read a book about boundaries and like boundaries now that's a B word I haven't heard but I didn't know that B word so she suggested a book called where you end and I begin, and I did not realize, Oh my gosh, like I feel so uncomfortable setting boundaries because people manipulate me about setting the boundaries.
And so once I started to understand what was happening, because I was setting my boundaries, I was just feeling terrible.
I was setting boundaries because I had no other choice.
i really couldn't help or say yes or do this extra thing or be here and be there and and staying college i couldn't do it so i would just say no and sometimes my no was not nice sometimes my no was not so it was very aggressive at times uh so i didn't you know i i didn't have the proper tools to be able to, you know, say no.
Now I know there are ways that you speak to people who are asking for something.
It doesn't have to ruin the relationship, but you can be firm and there's a way to be firm.
It's not demeaning them or, you don't never had no money, you know.
So I don't need to say stuff like that, but I didn't know that.
And you know what you're saying?
Learning the vernacular around how to change these relationships in your life, which is so much a part of what you do and what you teach, which again, I really love.
I think it's very, very relatable and easy to do.
So, in me saying that and bringing it up, just again to give the listeners a little bit of context.
maybe, if you could define the difference between a functional family dynamic and maybe a dysfunctional dynamic so that people can sort of see the difference between the two.
Well in a functional family, saying no won't ruin relationships.
There is no punishment.
There is no silent treatment.
There is potentially a desire to understand.
But in a dysfunctional family, oh, they're gonna make you feel terrible about saying no or having any type of boundary.
Because it's almost an offense to the family that you have to operate in whatever way that they say you must operate.
And unfortunately, that also means that many of us don't get to choose how we show up in the world at any age, because you have some people who are 50, and they cannot say no to a sibling, to a child, and it's unfortunate.
Because in essence, you're not able to live the sort of life that you want to live.
You know, I, a few years ago, set a boundary with a relative, and you know what they said to me?
And you're supposed to be a therapist.
this. I said, Ooh, you have take manipulation to another level.
Said you know, you know, through my career here.
I am a person first.
Let me tell you that I told you I'd always talk appropriately.
I'm a person first.
You are not about the throw in my face, you said it like I was a nun.
Like, I can't have a boundary.
Like, I have to accept.
I'm like, wait a minute, what you're doing is inappropriate.
And I'm highlighting, hey, hey, chill out, cool out.
Get yourself together.
And you said, well, you should be able to tolerate anything.
You're supposed to be a therapist.
That's not how being a therapist works.
I wish it did, but I still get upset by things.
I think sometimes people want to manipulate you into thinking that you should be mistreated and that you need to figure out how to deal with it.
The problem is not that they're mistreating you.
The problem is you don't have the tolerance for it.
How dare you not have the tolerance for me mistreating you.
It's like, well, you know, No, I don't think that people should mistreat me.
I think I'm a kind and loving person, and that's the energy that I'd like to get back from people.
I feel like that should be on a shirt.
It's on my shirt. No, it's not.
Right. It's just I made it.
I'll write it on my shirt.
Right? It is that. It is that.
You know, I think the biggest obstacle we encounter when looking at family dynamics or even relationship dynamics is that the minute that you are saying yes to yourself, it means you're saying no to the other person, right?
Like they take it personal.
Like I'm sure your relative was very taken aback by that.
So what was the end result if you don't mind me asking?
There has been no repair of the relationship.
I think there was a very disrespectful dynamic at play.
And the end result is not having a functional relationship that we can exist in consistently, because there has to be some respect there.
And this is a relationship where I'll be flat out.
The person was verbally abusive.
And I just can't tolerate that.
I can't even watch, I tried to watch the Jerry Springer documentary.
I can't even look at those people fighting anymore.
Like, I just, I have a G -rated spirit right now.
My spirit is very G -rated.
You know, like, where are the trolls?
Cue the hugging. So if you're cursing me out, Oh, what we gonna talk about?
Because I'm never bringing that energy to a person.
It's really hard for us to identify those things that are causing us to unravel because we really want those things.
Sometimes those things could be relationships.
It could be a friendship where you know that this person just triggers so much stuff, there are so many behavior issues and you've tried it and we just want the relationship.
It's like I know this isn't good for me and I want it anyway.
So a large part of our work is learning to master ourselves.
That is that is the adult work that we have to do and that is that is quite challenging.
I will say that if you go to therapy and you find a therapist who is okay with being direct and sometimes calling you to the surface, calling certain things to the surface, or just noticing some of your patterns.
There's nothing like...
I had my therapist say to me one time and I was still watching those reality shows, I'm like, I want to throw a couple of wine in her face.
But she said to me, I was trying to hang on to the most toxic relationship ever.
I mean, I was like, I can't let it go.
I was really trying to hang on.
And she said, if this person, take family out of this, why do you have this relationship with this person?
I couldn't even answer.
It was no good to it.
Like, I couldn't be like, I like spending time with them, they nice every other two.
I had no reason. Not one at all.
But when you talk to a therapist so much about a person, they're kinda like, what are you doing to yourself?
And sometimes we don't recognize that pattern.
We think like, oh, it was just this time.
It was like, it's this time, it was the last time.
I've had clients where I'm like, what did your sister do this time?
It's like, because I already know.
I already know. So sometimes we are in patterns that we don't notice.
And it's not always, gosh, you need to lead this relationship, but how do you show up differently?
If you, if I know as a bystander, I know what this person is going to bring out of you.
How do you show up with this person differently if you want to be in this relationship?
period period period So I know personally the benefits of working with mental health professional obviously, it's something that I Really believe in that.
I've seen the benefits of not only just within myself, but with people that I love and so But with what you're saying, it sounds like it gives us a different vantage point and it can really guide us in the right direction, especially with reframing our thinking or observing patterns in a different way or even coming up with solutions.
I will say this. I think therapy one -on -one is a great experience.
I think also group therapy is a good experience because guess what?
You get to learn from other people.
and until we see how other people manage it or some of their stories.
We feel very isolated in our stuff, so sometimes group therapy is a wonderful option.
Online community...
grabbing yourself a workbook on a topic if you can't get to a therapist.
Talking to whatever religious person in your community.
So that could be a pastor, a imam, a rabbi, whatever your religion is.
going to that person is speaking to them.
But I think there is some utility in learning about yourself and learning how to be in relationships with people.
So whether that is with a therapist, us with a life coach, a pastor, there are times where we may need somebody to point out some patterns, help us through some things, and we have to be open to that perspective to really grow and get over the hump.
Nedra, always such a pleasure and joy and privilege to have conversations with you.
I always leave feeling so good and like I learned something new and I get to learn something new about you every time we chat, which I really love.
For the people that are listening, where can they get more information on you and your work and your books?
Yes. So please visit my website, www .nedra2wab .com.
I have worksheets. I have quizzes and information about any upcoming events, and also I have all of my books listed there.
Nedra, thank you so much for joining us on Radio Headspace.
We hope you come back to visit us soon.
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