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In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.
Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop.
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.
And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe.
That's your home.
That's your husband.
Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.
Late one night, Bobby Gumpride became the victim of a random crime.
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
I was a monster.
Listen to Burden of Guilt, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio.
Good morning.
This is Laura.
Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.
Today's episode is going to be a longer one part of the series where I interview fascinating people about how they take their days from great to awesome and any advice they have for the rest of us.
So today I am delighted to welcome Jenna Free to Before Breakfast.
Jenna is a therapist, an expert on ADHD and is the author of the brand new book The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation.
Jenna, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, so excited to talk with you about this topic.
Why don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?
Absolutely.
So I'm a therapist.
I was diagnosed with ADHD at the age of 32 while in grad school to become a therapist.
I have been working with clients for about three years now and in working with them learned about myself and found a strong connection that ADHDers are almost always in fight or flight and that dysregulated state is what causes a lot of our struggles, not the ADHD itself.
Yeah.
So talk about that a little bit, being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult.
I mean, for starters, did it did you go like, oh, yeah, that explains a lot when you heard that?
Absolutely.
And that's why I saw it, saw it. because I was like, this can't be normal.
I don't think life's supposed to be this hard.
Well, what was it that was tipping you off that that might be the case?
It was like for many women after I had two kids in a year and a half and everything just became too much for my coping mechanism.
So I didn't realize I was masking and coping and just keeping my head above water.
But then when you have so much going on, It kind of shows those cracks that oh, I am not managing well and I'm overwhelmed by the thought of sweeping the floor and changing a diaper.
And I don't think this is typical.
Yeah.
Well, because normally when people think of you know attention deficit disorder and things like that, they're picturing a little boy who can't sit still in class.
And yet it manifests in lots of other ways.
And I hear from a lot of women in particular who are high functioning, that they aren't diagnosed until they're adults.
I mean, what's going on there?
Absolutely.
So historically, that's how we saw it.
Little boy running around, that was the hyperactive type.
But there's also the inattentive type, which is a bit more spaciness forgetfulness, easily overwhelmed kind of that internal struggle and hyperactivity, not so much the external struggle.
So of course, growing up, that's not seen as much.
It's not as much of a bother in the classroom.
So people think you're doing just fine.
Yeah, but it turns out that there are ways to treat this, or at least know what you're working with, so that you can live life in a more calm fashion.
So one of the things that I read in your new book on ADHD regulation you encourage people who are living with ADHD to not talk about like oh, my ADHD brain is making me do this, but to talk about dysregulation.
What is dysregulation?
Absolutely.
So, being a neurodivergent person living in a neurotypical world, you're going to bump up to a lot of struggles, a lot of differences.
Feels a little bit like a round peg in a square hole.
It's just what don't always fit everywhere.
And that will put your nervous system into a protective state.
I'm on the defense.
I'm hypervigilant, making sure I'm doing the right thing.
I'm not late.
I'm not forgetting stuff.
And once we get tipped into that state, you tend to get stuck in that state.
So I work with adults who don't know life other than being in fight or flight or being dysregulated.
So that causes a lot of problems, because being dysregulated Infight or flight is useful when you're in imminent life-threatening danger, right?
When fight, flight, freeze, and fawn is actually going to save your life.
If you are writing emails, have a long to-do list, trying to organize your day, not as helpful.
So that is what's actually creating so many of the problems, not the neurodivergence itself.
Because people believe they're in danger at least their nervous system believes they're in danger, even though they actually aren't.
Absolutely.
So it's perceiving the stress, the overwhelm, all of that stuff that we've kind of it's like a flip has been switched on.
My system perceived danger because we're very primal beings.
Still, even though it was oh, my teacher was mad at me.
I got in trouble for handing that thing in late, but we still perceive that as a bear is chasing me.
And so, because it's 2026 and not everybody obviously, but most of us people listening to this podcast are probably physically safe.
It causes a lot of problems because the blood flow actually leaves the brain and goes to the limbs.
But when I'm trying to write emails, organize my day, prioritize, I need blood flow to the brain.
So we really, our skills, our executive functioning goes down when we're in that state as well.
So one of the first things you need to do then, if you recognize this state or recognize this about yourself, is to figure out how to calm yourself down.
What are some strategies that I suppose people, even who are not living with ADHD, could use to calm ourselves down?
Yes.
Being in fight or flight, it can affect anybody.
So it's not just for ADHDers.
It's just very common with neurodivergent people.
Um, first thing would be rushing.
This is something that's not talked about as much, but regardless of the reason you're doing it, rushing is going to signal to your body that you are in danger.
I'm getting chased by a bear.
I'm moving so quickly or even thinking so quickly that there must be danger present.
So we really want to work on slowing down.
So if you're rushing to a meeting, we just want to walk.
If you're typing out an email at breakneck speed okay, slow down and just do things at a pace that's a little bit more calming.
And that's a great first step.
What else could we do?
Let's go through a list of things that you would recommend to people.
Well, there's kind of three elements to the ADHD regulation method that I use with people.
So first is that physical piece.
We want to tell the body we are safe and that's going to look like a deep breath, relaxing your shoulders, slowing down.
Very simple.
The second piece is thought and belief regulation, which is much more complex.
And we have a lot of ways of thinking and a lot of belief systems that are rooted, that are sorry, that stem from a nervous system that feels unsafe.
So thoughts like I'm behind, I need to catch up.
There's not enough time in the day.
I should have done that yesterday.
All of those.
That kind of thinking keeps us in a dysregulated state which is going to make us ineffective forgetful, unorganized.
So another thing is really being aware of your thinking.
Are my thoughts and beliefs keeping me in anxiety?
Are they keeping me rushing, frazzled?
And we want to work on that as well.
So how are some ways I could rewrite those scripts?
Because I know a lot of people listening to this are in fact telling themselves there's not enough time in the day.
I mean, we're all busy these days.
So what could I do to stop telling myself that story?
A big part of regulation work is aligning with reality, which just means stop fighting with reality.
So if you're thinking there's not enough time in the day, Just think of that fight.
Like you are going to lose that fight every time.
There is the time there is.
Now what can I do with it?
So it's just observing where am I fighting with reality?
I should have done that yesterday.
Okay, but you didn't.
So what's the reality?
The reality is I didn't do that. now what?
And I love the now what because it gives us just that forward momentum.
So observing where are my thoughts and beliefs, fighting with reality or fighting with what is?
That is a great place to work on.
Love that.
Well, we're going to take a quick ad break and I'll be back with more from Jenna Free.
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting.
Think again.
More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora.
And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined.
So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.
Plus only iHeart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.
Think podcasting can help your business?
Think iHeart.
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Hi, this is Jill Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life.
And I just sat down with a mini driver.
The Irish traveler said when I was 16 you're going to have a terrible time with men.
Storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary.
Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives.
And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood.
A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.
He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses and different places, but just an embracing of the isness of it all.
If you're navigating your own transformation, or just want a chart-side view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, this episode is a must listen.
Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. her husband Mike was on his laptop.
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.
And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe.
That's your home.
That's your husband.
To keep this secret for so many years...
He's like a seasoned pro.
This is a story about the end of a marriage.
But it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark.
You're a dangerous person who preys on vulnerable and trusting people.
Your creditor might go up in good.
Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Well, I am back talking with Jennifer, who is a therapist and expert on ADHD and the author of the brand new book The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation.
So I love one of your sayings that if you have to rush, there isn't time.
I'm curious how you see this manifesting itself so often with people.
One thing that comes to mind.
People always tell me well, I could empty the dishwasher before I walk out the door.
It's like, well, maybe you can't.
Absolutely, that's exactly the right example.
So, especially ADHD years.
But anybody who struggles with being on time we will blame, you know.
Oh, I'm too easily distracted or I have time blindness.
That's a big thing for ADHD years.
But often we, because go back to our beliefs, there's not enough time in the day.
So I have to squeeze everything into every possible minute I can.
So I'll just quickly unload the dishwasher.
Well, you, you should have left five minutes ago.
If we have to quickly rush to do it, it's probably a sign that there's no time.
Let's just put it down.
We can do it later.
And let's leave now.
It really will retrain your system to just live in the reality that there is the time there is.
We're valuing being on time more than we are rushing to quickly get that thing done.
Because every time we rush to do a task, we are also signaling to our body that we're not safe.
We got to get into fight or flight.
Blood flow is going to leave your brain.
It's going to go to your limbs.
You're not going to be as clear thinking.
You're not going to be able to prioritize plan.
So it really is a kind of philosophy to live by is, oh, slow and steady wins the race.
Like that is a saying for a reason.
Yeah.
What is time blindness?
Maybe you can explain that to us.
So I don't know if a lot of ADHD symptoms terminology is just summing up what we see as a struggle with ADHD.
And in my work I am proposing that a lot of what we've assumed is ADHD is actually a dysregulated brain.
That's also neurodivergent, but it is a temporal distortion, meaning a distortion of time.
Well, that happens when we're in fight or flight as well.
So it's not exclusive to the neurodivergent brain, but it can be.
You know, losing track of time really easily, thinking things will take way longer than they do, thinking things will take way less time than they do, and just feeling like you can't get a grasp on organizing your time well, because you can't perceive it accurately.
Okay.
Are there things you can do to become a more accurate perceiver of time?
Regulate, which is that slowing down, retraining our system, that it is not in danger. aligning with reality and not fighting with reality as much of course there's many more tools we can get into but all of this leads to a system that is calm cool collected it's going to think more clearly it's going to have less distortions both you know cognitive distortions temporal distortions where we don't see things accurately that will all dissipate naturally with regulation So one of the things I always suggest to people when they're trying to figure out time is keeping track of it.
And I'm curious if you think that that might be helpful to people I'm talking to who are neurodivergent, or do you think they're not going to like that at all?
It can be tricky, because that is what's taught to each year is the external tools the timers, the calendars, the planners, the tracking, the systems, the strategies.
But what I have found is a system in fight or flight.
Give that system tools is like an umbrella in a hurricane.
There is no amount of external support that's going to make up for a system in fight or flight.
So it's always working on that internal base stuff first.
Then we can go, okay, where are my missing gaps and what tools and strategies can I use?
I have a calendar that I use religiously that is so supportive of me.
No matter how regulated I am, I do have a wristwatch that I wear.
That's just the time, so that I'm more in tune with what time it is and have it accessible.
But overly tracking, being hypervigilant about these things, can also tip into dysregulation, because I also have many clients who are chronically early because they are so anxious about being late that they'll waste 45 minutes going early and sitting and waiting.
Well, that's not really a good solution either.
So it's finding that balance.
So how do you use your calendar to support yourself?
Then, if you, if you think that you might have some time, blindness on occasion.
How does your calendar support you in moving beyond that?
Absolutely.
So being a regulated person has absolutely supported in me being able to use it every single day.
Um, and i keep my old ones because i do have these paper calendar.
I use a paper calendar.
It's more grounding, it's more physical.
I find that really helpful for regulation.
But i'm on my fourth book of it, so this is my fourth year every single day using my calendar and it's simply writing down what i'm going to do.
But because i'm regulated, i'm mindful enough to remember to look at it.
I do have it open in front of me on my desk at all times And I'm not caught up in the perfection, guilt and shame that we can be when we're dysregulated and try to use tools.
I'm flexible about it.
If I don't get something done, I'm completely fine crossing it off and moving it along.
So it's that flexibility I think that allows for a calendar to work for somebody.
Now, you mentioned in your book this sort of analogy of viewing big projects as either a wall of bricks in front of you or more of a brick path.
Can you talk a little bit about that analogy?
And that might be helpful for people who even are neurotypical and view big projects as almost overwhelming.
Absolutely so.
If you have overwhelm, you're not present, because you cannot be overwhelmed if you're present.
So if we are thinking about a project oh, i want to start that work project, but i'm going to have to email those five people.
I have to do that.
Five hours of research.
I'm also going to have to write this paper.
It's like all the bricks are stacking up in front of us, when the reality is i can only do one thing at a time.
So there's the awareness of i'm seeing the brick wall, which is a cognitive distortion, right?
So that's a skewed perspective of reality, because the reality is time and space are linear.
I can only do one thing at a time.
So we can practice laying that down in our mind's eye.
Okay, if this was a brick path, what is one brick I could step on?
Not what is the one right perfect first brick.
What is a brick I could step on?
That might be I'll email Joe and ask him that question I have, right?
It's just getting into some momentum and movement and stepping on the bricks one by one, instead of trying to smash the wall down all at once.
We're going to take a quick ad break and I'll be back with more from Jenna Free.
Run a business and not thinking about podcasting.
Think again.
More americans listen to podcasts than ad-supported streaming music from spotify and pandora.
And, as the number one podcaster, iheart's twice as large as the next two combined.
So whatever your customers listen to, they'll hear your message.
Plus, only iheart can extend your message to audiences across broadcast radio.
Think podcasting can help your business.
Think iHeart.
Streaming, radio, and podcasting.
Let us show you at iHeartAdvertising.com.
That's iHeartAdvertising.com.
Hi, this is Jill Winterstein, host of the Spirit Daughter podcast, where we talk about astrology, natal charts and how to step into your most vibrant life.
And I just sat down with a mini driver.
The Irish traveler said when I was 16 you're going to have a terrible time with men.
Storyteller and unapologetic Aquarian visionary.
Aquarius is all about freedom loving and different perspectives.
And I find a lot of people with strong placements in Aquarius like are misunderstood.
A sun and Venus in Aquarius in her seventh house spark her unconventional approach to partnership.
He really has taught me to embrace people sleeping in different rooms, on different houses, in different places, but just an embracing of the is-ness of it all.
If you're navigating your own transformation or just want a chartside view into how a leading artist integrates astrology, creativity and real life, This episode is a must listen.
Listen to the Spirit Daughter podcast starting on February 24th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.
Her husband, Mike, was on his laptop.
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.
And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe.
That's your home.
That's your husband.
To keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro.
This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark.
You're a dangerous person who preys on vulnerable and trusting people.
Your creditor might go up in good.
Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Talking with Jenna Free, a therapist and ADHD expert, author of the brand new book The Simple Guide to ADHD Regulation.
So Jenna, I'd love to move more to what your own schedule looks like.
People love to hear about people's schedules with this show.
What does a day look like for you?
Well, I am like a broken record, but it's I prioritize regulation.
So I don't want to do too much.
I don't want to do too little.
It's finding that sweet spot.
The definition of being regulated is the rate or speed at which it's technically a machine functions best.
So having nothing on my calendar is, you know, it's too open.
There's too much flexibility.
You kind of don't use your time well.
Also stuffing too much in there makes it overwhelming, puts you in a paralysis, puts you into a state where you're not very efficient and effective.
So I really have gotten good at knowing what my capacity is, knowing what's too much for me and having that flexibility to move things around.
I don't have any specifics that's rigid every day.
That flexibility is key for me to stay regulated.
But I do find When I'm not rushing, when I have a great relationship with reality and I'm not fighting with it, the days just really flow well.
And my sound for regulation is .
So that's what I want my feeling to be every day is I'm chugging along, I'm getting things done, but I'm not in a panic.
I'm not frantic.
I'm not trying to squeeze 15 things in that are unrealistic.
And I'm also not stuck and stagnant doing nothing.
So that's a bit of a less tangible example.
But those are the key points that have really helped me with functioning well and scheduling well.
But of course, I mean, you have children.
And so they probably occasionally mess up that schedule, that sense of you know, trying to have the right amount in any given day or um, you know they, they tend to throw curveballs into a schedule.
I'm curious how um, you know, you deal with that, because i think that the chaos of having young kids is again one of those things that leads people to understand that they are neurotypical and how they're reacting to it.
So i'm curious how you are dealing with raising children and and needing that regulation Absolutely.
So yes, I have six and seven-year-old boys.
We are in the thick of it.
And when I was more dysregulated, I had so much anger and rigidity.
If they woke up sick, had to stay home from daycare.
I just won't forget being like punching the mattress going.
How am I so frustrated by this change in plans?
And it was the rigidity that also tips me off when someone is neurodivergent and in a fight or flight.
Now in a more regulated state, I plan as best I can.
But again, that alignment with reality, the reality is he's homesick.
Okay.
What am I going to do?
Right?
How am I going to work with the reality I have instead of spending so much of my time and energy fighting with he shouldn't?
If he hadn't been home, I would have gotten this done.
I would have, well, Here we are.
How do I deal with it?
So it's so much easier to roll with the punches accept reality, adjust things accordingly, without it derailing everything.
Well, do you have any routines, though, that you think make you more productive?
I mean, even if days are different, are there any sort of routines you make sure to follow as much as you can.
I do just get out of bed when my alarm goes.
That is something I could not do when I was dysregulated.
And I know for ADHD, it's very hard to wake up in the morning.
But when you are more present and less stuck in your thinking, I do find I just don't even think about it.
I just stand up and mosey through my day.
So that really helps.
I do...
Something that I kind of connected is if I'm already going out, it's so much easier for me to go to the gym.
So I'm lucky enough to have a flexible schedule where, after I drop my kids off from school, if I go straight to the gym, I'm going to go.
If I come home first, I ain't going.
So it's some little things I've learned about myself that I try to honor as much as possible.
So that has helped.
But everyone's going to be so different in what works for them.
Yeah, yeah.
Although I'm sure exercise does help in general, right?
Getting physical activity.
Is that a good way to regulate oneself?
Absolutely.
Ideally.
And if you are in fight or flight, you're in survival mode.
You are just keeping your head above water.
I do not ask anyone who is drowning to go work out as the first step.
So it is a beautiful thing if you can do it, but that is not something we have to do right away in order to regulate.
Excellent.
So Jenna, I always ask my guests what is something you have done recently to take a day from great to awesome?
I think the biggest thing that makes a lot of my days awesome is really connecting with my belief that the day is meant to be enjoyed, not just to check off the to-do list.
So I really try to enjoy the process of the day.
Doesn't mean I'm Playing hooky at work, doesn't mean I'm going to Disneyland every day, but even in writing emails.
Can I sit in somewhere comfortable?
Can I do it at a pace that's not painful?
Can I make this as pleasurable as possible?
Because, especially if you're neurodivergent and or dysregulated, feeling in a rush, always like you're behind and need to catch up, we really can live our lives in a way where we're just trying to get it over with.
Just trying to get things done so I can move on to the next thing.
Soon enough, you've looked back and the past month has flown by and you haven't soaked up any of it.
So I think it's a big shift.
If you people can even bring that up to the same priority level.
OK, yes, I want to get things done.
I want to work my schedule and do it well.
I also want to enjoy the experience because for most of us, we are forgetting that part entirely.
Yeah.
Well, what are you looking forward to right now?
Speaking of enjoying things?
I am looking forward to, I am a big traveler.
I'm going to Vegas in a few weeks with some friends.
And I do love a change in schedule.
That being said, love my routine, love a schedule.
And oh my gosh, to have a break from it can be such a reset.
Yeah.
Well, that should be a lot of fun.
I hear you like all sorts of random hobbies too.
That was one of the things I saw in your bio.
Yeah.
Yes, very ADHD thing as well.
I've been sewing, tennis, acting, yoga.
They kind of come and go, but I do love a good hobby.
Follow your fancy at the moment for sure.
So Jenna, where can people find you?
You can find me at ADHDwithjennifree.com slash group.
So that's all about my work and on social media at ADHD with Jenna Free.
Awesome.
Well, Jenna, thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you to everyone for listening.
If you have feedback on this or any other episode, you can always reach me at laura, at lauravandercamcom.
In the meantime, this is Laura.
Thanks for listening.
And here's to making the most of our time.
Thanks for listening to Before Breakfast.
If you've got questions, ideas, or feedback, you can reach me at laura at lauravandercam.com.
Before Breakfast is a production of iHeart Media.
For more podcasts from iHeart Media, please visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze.
Her husband Mike was on his laptop.
What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.
I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing.
And immediately, the mask came off.
You're supposed to be safe.
That's your home.
That's your husband.
Listen to Betrayal Season 5 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.
Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime.
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
I was a monster.
Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Ready for a different take on formula one, look no further than no grip, a new podcast tackling the culture of motor racing's most coveted series.
Join me, lily herman, as we dive into the underexplored pockets of f1, including the story of the woman who last participated in a formula one race weekend, the recent uptick in f1 romance novels and plenty of mishaps, scandals and sagas that have made formula one a delightful, decadent dumpster fire for more than 75 years.
Listen to No Grip on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
This is an iHeart Podcast.
Guaranteed human.
