My name is Ryan Shelton.
I'm a co -host on The Imperfects, the Jewish grandson of Austrian and English immigrants, and I grew up on, and I'm now currently living on Wurundjeri country.
I'd like to recognise the traditional peoples of this continent whose land was stolen nearly 250 years ago.
In particular, we at The Imperfects would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation as the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast was recorded, and we extend our respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
The rich storytelling history of the world's oldest living culture is what we proudly pay homage to when we share stories on the imperfects.
It was this moment in my life where I suddenly went, everyone was right.
If I can't just where there's no pressure, where there's one cameraman, there's one boomy, there's one director and my brother, that's it.
I just had this horrible, cataclysmic kind of crisis of faith in myself.
The imperfect invites you into a very safe place.
A place where we share without judgement and drink heaps of vulnerability.
This is the first episode we've ever done where I feel like it would have been more appropriate for the guest to open the episode, like right down the barrel.
I know where you're going with it.
right down the camera.
My name is Stephen Curry and this is my story.
Not the basketballer.
I should actually say not the basketballer.
Yeah. Anyone who's tuned in and gone like, what the fuck?
You got the chef? That's incredible.
And I did not know his accent would be so, hey, so bogganic.
Yeah, and then we've got the better, the better Steph Curry.
The original, I might just say.
The original. 10 years older.
God, Steve, it is so exciting having you here.
I am absolutely pumped to be here.
Thank you, guys, for having me.
It is very exciting.
I have some advice for you.
Okay. To start off with.
We had a lovely chat on the phone yesterday.
It was a rollicking good time, I thought, on the phone yesterday.
But where I live, it often drops out.
months, which is actually a win for me.
Okay, the conversation wasn't a great conversation.
Well, you mentioned that you listen to the imperfects when you're tending to your garden.
Yes. And you said, especially the high drangers.
So and my mum loves it, our mum loves a high dranger.
So I asked her for advice.
You might be a little over this, but she said to you that dappled light is best and where it gets only morning sun. You knew that?
Yeah. It's like children.
That's how they grow to dappled light morning sun and then keep them in the shade.
for the rest of the day.
It works well. I'm hydrated.
No, I was telling you here yesterday that my wife and I literally just yesterday, before I spoke to you had talked about how much we love.
This podcast goes perfectly with gardening.
We love it. There's something, I don't know, there's something about it and Nazzie took the boys away to Scotland for about a month last year to go and see the family.
And I was basically just in gardening mode and I listened to, I reckon about probably 20 or 30 episodes of the show, whilst I was just tending to this.
That's so amazing. I mean, it tickles me pink to know that you listen to it.
It's so cool. It all died but you know, I felt nourished.
It doesn't make me a better gardener, it's just, it's a good thing to listen to whilst I'm done.
One of the most surprised moments, I'd say of my life is when, Steve, you showed me the inside of your shed.
Because it's like, I don't know what my perception of you was before that, but it wasn't...
it didn't align with how impressive the gear in your shed was.
I did not expect it.
Every tool you can imagine.
Yeah. And I'm a bit obsessive about where it all goes.
It looks immaculate.
I've got outlines on the walls.
Wow. So, I know when things are missing, and I know what's missing because of my outlines that are on the walls.
And my wife and I have very robust discussions about where the hammer's gone.
It goes a lot. It disappears a lot.
Yeah. Yeah. Is there a chance that your neighbour has walked past maybe if you were in the garden all the time like me and you had a chance digging a hole?
Oh my gosh! And if so, how excited were they?
I was on the beach with my youngest son Beau in January, and he has never seen The Castle.
And apologies to him.
He's listening to this.
He hasn't seen The Castle.
But that was a Castle reference film I did 29 years ago.
As was the opening of the episode.
Sorry, as was the opening of the episode.
But my son Beau, who's 10, hasn't seen the film and we're building a sandcastle and we're doing a moat around it.
And he went, Dad, Dad.
And I went, yeah, he goes, I dug a hole.
Oh, my God. the film that he hasn't seen, and the only reason he knows this line is because of all the people who've come up to us in the street while he's been with me.
And then I went, I start laughing and went, oh, that's actually good, man.
He goes, no, but Dad, it's Filling with Water, which is another line, from the film.
So no matter how high you try and punk me on that film, you can't punk me harder than my 10 year old on the beach in January.
Ok. So who is Steve Curry?
I've been wondering myself here.
We might have already mentioned a few of the things in the Bio here.
Well my first...I thought well...
Stephen Curry is here I should say something funny to start.
You've already done it but...
Stephen Curry is an American professional basketball player...
Oh yeah, I forgot where you found her on that one.
It's awkward isn't it?
I'll grab my coat. You did it far better than I was going to do it so...
Stephen Curry is an Australian actor and comedian best known for his portrayal of Dale Kerrigan in the 1997 cult classic, The Castle.
Steve grew up in Melbourne, in Bourn.
Oh, Bourn, Bourn nearly Bourn.
Ooh. What was it, straight?
Pardon? What was the straight?
Gordon straight. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, my God. That's so close.
If you live in Bourn you know Gordon street.
Yeah, that's one of the big ones.
If you don't know Gordon Street, you don't know Bourn.
I don't know Bourn.
One. For years we thought were in deep deep, but we found out many years later that we didn't.
What a reveal. It's huge.
What was your straight?
Windmally? I know Windmally, right?
Oh, this is a great conversation.
It's going to get cut out of the podcast. I love this.
No, no, guys. This is going to help so many people.
Actually, let's rank the straights.
I'd call them the Will Straight Widgets up there as well.
Will's is important.
You want to get to deep deep in primary.
Yeah, you got to have all your affairs in order.
And people say the show has gotten looser.
I don't agree. I don't think it's still tight as ever.
Youngest of five siblings.
That's interesting.
After a few minor roles in Advert, Steve was cast as Dale Kerrigan in The Castle.
This casting launched a steady and successful career as Steve became a series regular on The Secret Life of Us and The Time of Our Lives as well as starring in two of Australia's biggest ever films, The Nugget and Takeaway.
In 2007 Steve played Graham Kennedy.
Congratulations on that by the way.
Thank you. I do very good, in The King for which he has won an actor award for best lead actor.
Steve has two boys with his wife, Nadine.
Yes, in Scotland it's Nadine.
N -A -A -D -E -I -N. I don't know how to pronounce it.
Nadzi. That's cool.
Yeah, she doesn't. Her father doesn't like that but that's what everyone calls her, Nadzi.
What do you call her own?
Nadzi. Nadzi. And you'll be welcomed to as well.
She's a big fan of both of your works, so not so much of Ryan's, But...
Nadsie was actually one very, very early supporter of the podcast. Oh, wow.
Indeed. She was very, very lovely about it in the earlier days.
How did you meet Nadsie?
At Revolver nightclub.
True story? Ten a .m. on a Sunday.
True story. In the Year 2000.
Unbelievable. Yeah, we're all good relationships start.
Just kept surfing. Yeah, so anyone has a go at Rev's, so whatever you want to call it...
Revolting. We used to call it.
You know, that's where love can blossom.
Unbelievable. My parents, our parents have been to Revolver.
What? I pick your pattern.
Yeah. What was the context of that?
Watch your mouth out.
In 2008? I don't know if I… Over there.
Do you remember? How was your parents?
H shortcomings! Hang on, your mum's name's Nancy.
No I was in a band and we played, they used to have bands who play in that front room there, I don't know if that's their story.
Yeah, and we played a gig on a Thursday or something, on it like eight o 'clock at night and Mum and Dad came and watched the gig but I couldn't believe my parents were in revolver, really blew my mind.
Did they kick on? Yeah, we lost them for a few days.
They met some guy and yeah.
Should we pull a card?
Yeah, let's. So Steve, you've heard this before.
For those who haven't heard the Vulnerability House before, we've got a deck of cards on the table.
They're our Vulnerability House cards, which are available on the website, theimperfect .com.
Perfect, yep. So you can get them.
But on each card is a different question, which invokes some, maybe a memory or some form of vulnerability from you, hopefully, Steve.
OK. And usually people just pick the top three, if any of those three, you read them out, and if any of those three resonate with you, then we'll go with that one.
All right. So go just pull the three out, now.
Pull the top three.
Oh, here we go. All right.
What fear would you like to be free of?
Oh, that's a good one.
That's a good one. Hang on, I better go through the other one.
Who have you been envious of?
Well, no one. Wow. Is it vulnerable?
That's not the point of this show is it Dave?
If you could make the answers a little bit longer as well.
Yeah is that, that's that's what the point of the show is.
Okay and the third one when was the time you genuinely needed help were you able to ask for it?
Aww. That's cool. That's the one.
That's the one. That's the one.
Well straight up I love that.
Just like when you met Nadsi on the couch she'd just use straight away.
She's the one. She used the one.
And she didn't think so.
It took quite a while to convince her of that.
But, no, that's really good.
I have been envious of many people, by the way, of these.
Yes, when was the time you genuinely needed help and were you able to ask for it?
This is interesting, because I would say I've known you for a little while, Steve.
My assumption, and we should never assume, make an arse out of you and me, but my assumption is that you don't have, that your mental health is pretty good and my perception of you is that you wouldn't need help that much and you're pretty self -sufficient.
I've been very lucky in my life.
I've been raised by a very loving family and had very loyal and reliable and trustworthy friends.
And as a result of that and probably part of kind of I don't know, my just natural makeup.
Yes, I'm more often, I'm fairly easy going and fairly lacking in anxiety, generally.
Yeah, lovely duck. Well yes, and that's why people are going well, why've you got him on?
This is not. This is not.
No, but the red there.
Well this is why we have the vulnerability house because even if someone, generally speaking, we find that everyone's got had something that's happened in their life or has dealt with something so even if it's been relatively smooth sailing there's usually something to talk about.
Yep all right so I'm just going to launch into one because you've piqued my interest in myself what?
So all right okay so as you mentioned Hugh I you know had been doing extra work and and little bits and pieces for probably about seven years up until the point that I, the castle fell in my lap.
And I had just kind of, I just always wanted to do it.
There was just never a question and maybe.
This is acting. This is acting.
So I've never, I've never sort of imagined doing anything else.
And I'm fairly simple in my thought processes.
So I'm not a hugely deep thinker about things, so I never thought about the...
I had a lot of teachers and my parents and friends very kindly suggest that I might get something to fall back on.
And I didn't. I didn't.
Because I was this kid going, no, no, I'll just be a successful film television actor kind of thing.
On paper, that's a terrible idea.
It's a terrible idea, because the odds of it panning out that way are miniscule at best. And so anyway the castle come along and it was a a I don't know it for me it was like I was working with my heroes and in Working Dog who I'd grown up admiring and loving their comedy and all of a sudden I'm sitting around a table and Working Dog being like Rob Sitch, Santo Celaro, Tom Gliesner, Jane Kennedy so there I am sitting around this table with them and you know thinking this is Pretty cool.
And how old are you?
Twenty. Yeah, 20. Yeah, yeah.
And I, you know, I had a fairly rotten head on me, and I think that's where I got the role.
And which is also why a lot of the people in my life had said get some and fall on this and they always do a circle around my face.
This is not that I don't, I don't see it.
You know, I don't see a leading man.
Anyway, so I do the film and the film is is very successful in terms of Australian content.
It. it, it a lot of people saw it and a lot of people still to this day love that film and and feel a part of that film and feel connected to that film because of the characters are very recognisable Australian characters.
So that was brilliant.
So what that did, that film opened up a whole new world to me in terms of I didn't have to work at a bakery anymore.
Sorry to do this. But which bakery.
It was Baker to Lydon Hawthorne and well, I got sacked from that, and so then I was working in a video store, but basically just jobs that you have to do because you want to prove to all these people who told you it wasn't going to happen, but it's going to happen, you have to feed yourself while you're not earning any money.
So the castle opened up this world to me where I was doing lots of jobs and I was in lots of films and I was in lots of TV shows and it was brilliant and I loved it because it's my hobby.
As I said, it's the only thing I've ever wanted to do.
So then in 2005, I was cast in The King, in the Graham Kennedy pace that you mentioned.
Which I remember being – it was like significant news.
Very rarely does the casting of a show or a film make the news, but because Graham Kennedy is such an icon and such an Australian and TV legend.
He was kind of like Australia's version of like Jimmy Fallon, Jimmy Kimmel, and every tonight show host rolled into one and he everyone knew who he was.
Everyone loved Graham Kennedy.
He was like, he was the king.
He was the king. Yeah.
He was the king of television.
Before I even got to that point I'd been cast in it, and it was, it hadn't been announced.
We had to go and do, we were about four months out from the shooting of the thing and I was just thrilled.
And Matt Savor, who directed it, I'd worked with on Secret Life, Jason Stevens, who was also part of Working Dog, was producing it.
And he was the one who suggested me in the first place.
And I was chuffed and honored.
And again, Graham Kennedy, my mum introduced me to him when I was very young, and I was a massive fan of everything that he'd done.
So this older actor that I was working with, at the time, I told him that I'd been cast in it.
and he said something very innocuous to me, which was kind of said lovingly but I took way more seriously than I would take most things, which was shit, you wouldn't want to stuff that up.
And it's fine. I say that stuff, I would say that stuff jokingly to you as my friend.
You know what I mean?
Because I know you're not going to stuff it up.
I might even say. But I also wouldn't, sort of maybe I would know that you're joking.
A hundred percent. And I knew he was joking.
But on the face of it, but then I kind of went, oh, right, okay.
Right. But that's true.
Okay, shit. That's Graham Kennedy.
This is Graham Kennedy.
This is Australia's first superstar, and I'm now playing him, and if I do stuff it up, everyone's going to see it.
And you think it's the whole world that's going to see it.
And the whole world's not going to see it, but in your head, the whole world's going to see you, maybe, not being as good as you'd hoped you were at the only thing that you can do.
Yep. And it's and it's, it's the pressure of that.
It's like, it's almost like, I don't think you even need to be an actor to know that pressure.
It's like any sort of public speaking, it's like you have to do the speech at school or whatever it is.
It's like, it feels like the weight of the world.
Yeah. Yeah. You kind of, I think in a way, you're always sort of wondering when you're going to get uncovered as a fraud anyway, in our game.
Because you pretend to be other people for a job.
You're a fraud, you know what I mean?
In the nicest way possible.
I'm pretending to be an actor.
You are. And you're doing a great job of it, for now.
So anyway, so we had to do this camera test thing for it.
Just to get the face right, to get the makeup right.
So Graham Kennedy had this fact that he was famously called oyster eyes because he had these kind of bags under his eyes, and they wanted to kind of get that right.
So we did this camera test. And on the way in, the words of this older actor who'd said this thing to me were ringing in my ears.
and I got the fear and I don't get the fear very often.
I get nerves. I love nerves and I tell my kids this all the time, nerves are awesome because they, it's free energy.
That's what I see nerves as is free energy.
Anyway, I went in and I did this thing and my brother Bernie was there acting opposite me and Matt Savile was there directing it.
It was very low -key we were in it channel 9 the old channel 9 studios.
I got into the makeup chair and they put these eyes on me and they were wrong, they were just wrong and they felt wrong and they looked wrong, it looked like a comedy sketch and I've done a lot of comedy sketches up till that point where I know what a comedy sketch look is you mean to instantly look at the person and start laughing you've got to be hit the ground running but this is a drama this is a this is a film about the side of a character that we've never seen.
We've seen the trip down memory lane stuff with Burton Graham and with all that stuff we know.
What this film was about was the making of The Man and he was a very tortured man.
So anyway I look at myself in the mirror and went, this is wrong.
This is bad, this is bad.
And got the major fear.
We went through the day we shot these three scenes and I was, and I'm not being self deprecating I was terrible, I was terrible and the harder I tried to...
What was it that made you so sure that it was terrible?
The fear just became crippling and it was something that I hadn't had before because I do have a pretty simple brain, I don't over think stuff, but the fear on that day became crippling and I couldn't breathe properly, I couldn't talk through my diaphragm, I couldn't all the things that I had learned how to do in terms of how to play a character and I didn't believe it in my own head.
It was shit. How did you experience failure like that before as an actor?
I'd been terrible in things before but not known.
Yeah. I'd seen things back and gone, Oh God, I've got a lot to learn or whatever, because I didn't train or anything.
I did it on the job, but that was the first time where I'd ever actually just gone, you You can't do what the only thing that you're meant to be able to do.
It was horrible, a horrible day.
And at the end of it, Matt Savile, the director, he looked at me and he said, how did you think that went?
And I just kind of went, I didn't have anything to say.
And he said he knew it.
We all knew it. And my brother knew it.
And he just said, You know what, no one's going to say that.
I'm not even going to show the network that I'm not going to show to anyone that I'm not going to show anyone.
anyone who's put any money or has any interest in this, I'm not going to show them.
We'll lose our funding.
And there's nothing that people who are funding a large scale production want to hear more than you're not allowed to see the thing you've paid for.
They love that. Anyway, true to his word, he didn't show anyone.
But as a result of him holding firm on his promise to me, the network, well, I don't, the powers that be in this particular instance, I was sacked, they sacked me.
Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was sacked.
And it was horrible and I just kind of, Nazzie was amazing through it because it was this moment in my life where I suddenly went, everyone was right.
And whilst I can pull funny faces and play dipshits in things that are just made up.
if I can't, just, where there's no pressure, where there's one cameraman, there's one boomy, there's one director and my brother, that's it.
If I can't do it in front of them, I just had this horrible cataclysmic kind of crisis of faith in myself.
What an awful feeling.
It was, I had it coming actually, I had it coming because it's kinda, you've got to, I think you've gotta try and be as aware as you can of, you know, I know my shortcomings, you know what I mean?
I know I'm not a director, I don't have the kind of the visual side of things, but I think it's worth being really aware of what you can and can't do and what you need to work harder on.
All right? I hadn't worked hard enough to get to that point to play that guy.
So anyway - And did you know that going into it you just sort of weren't admitting it to yourself?
Yes. So they put it out to audition And they auditioned a few people, a few pretty well -known people, a few people who weren't so well -known, who all kind of look there or there about.
So I've gotta roughly, my mom, even when I was a kid, she said you remind me of a young Graham Kennedy.
That's what it feel like.
I had a passing resemblance, right?
So I didn't wanna even audition for it.
And Nazi was one of the main people who said, you've just gotta get off your ass and you've gotta actually face this and you gotta work on it and work hard on it and go back and just, and they offered me a chance to audition and I auditioned for it.
And to be perfectly honest with you, because of the work that I've done leading up to that, I was way better and I got the role.
Oh, right. That was great.
What a roller coaster.
What was the work? It's research and time.
One of my pet hates is people who get to set and aren't ready, who aren't prepared.
And it's research and time and taking the time to what I wanted to do was get the essence of him.
I didn't want to look exactly like him I think that that moment that I looked in the mirror and they've done the eyes and ostensibly oh right I see you're doing a sort of, it's an impersonation is wrong it's an impersonation.
So it was just basically spending a hell of a lot of time getting to the essence of the character and getting to, using his timing, like trying to get onto his timing, getting onto his wavelength and get onto his spirit rather than having to put all the bells and whistles into tricking people into believing that I'm him.
I think that was the big one for me.
Did you have to do work because that's the work on the role and the work needed to be done to get the role?
Did you have to do work on yourself given the places you'd gone in that terror of failure?
It's a great question.
I did and I didn't, I did have to and I actually didn't do that and that came, that was about to come and bite me in the ass as well.
So we did, the shoot was coming up and we'd done these two weeks of rehearsals leading up and and I'd got the spirit, I got all this stuff, all the work that I put in on the character there itself, was there, was in place, Matt was happy, the producers were happy, the network was happy, it was ready to go.
And what's your confidence at this point?
Terrible. Even though everyone's happy?
Terrible, yeah. Because those words that I'd heard all those months earlier that don't stuff it up were ringing in my ears.
And I remembered the moment that I'd stuffed it up that day and I thought I had a good poker face and I don't at all, it turns out because we get to the pre -shoot drinks on the Friday night.
We're going to start shooting on the Monday.
So once you, as you know, Ryan, the moment you shoot that first shot and that's when you get the most nervous, because it's like, this is my character and once it's there, that's, that's it.
It's got to be locked.
Yeah, because it might not be the first scene that you're shooting.
It might be like, so you've got to, yeah.
And it wasn't to be consistent.
And it wasn't the first scene.
And Mattie Salwell, the director, he pulls me aside at the drinks and he goes, how you feeling?
And I went, I'm good.
I'm good. I'm pumped.
I said all the right things you meant to say before you go out and play a game of footy or whatever, you know, we're going to smash it.
We're going to say this is our, this is our year.
It's all right Mattie, I'm going to kick ten goals out there tomorrow.
It's like we are talking about stuff.
If you fall back, so let's just try and save a few as well.
Yeah, anyway, he saw through me and he'd already seen through me all week.
And he put a ticket at a plane ticket in my hands.
This is back when you got a little plane ticket.
He didn't get your boarding pass.
He had the ticket on him.
And he gave me the ticket.
And he said, you're going to Sydney tomorrow morning.
This is Friday night.
And we're going to start shooting in Melbourne on Monday morning.
All right. I said, I can't ...
What are you talking about?
I can't go to Sydney tomorrow.
Have you lost your mind?
We're shooting on Monday.
And he goes, you're going to Sydney.
And here's an address.
You're going to go and call me after So I get to the airport in Melbourne.
This is a great act to by the well.
Yeah But we get to the airport I get to the airport in Melbourne and as he has kind of said just go He knows what he's doing just go and she you know She said just he's not sending he doesn't want this to be ruined.
He's doing this for a reason and just go, go and do it.
I don't want to stop you Flo, but I do want to know what your relationship, is he a friend or like a boss or...
He's one of my best mate.
So there's a lot of trust there.
There's the director of the piece but he's one of my best mates.
There's a lot of trust. And he's also one of the best. Yeah, yeah.
One of the best. No doubt.
So I get to the airport and I look up at the board and I'm thinking, I didn't know whether I wanted the plane to be canceled or if I want it to be going and I realized it wasn't canceled, it was on time.
And then I remember looking at Rockhampton and I was looking at Rockhampton going, I could just go to Rockhampton.
I remember this, right?
Like genuinely? It's just a fleeting moment.
It's like, what if I just went to Rockhampton?
Just stayed there? Like it was a moment, a momentary thing.
To run, let's go. Run, flight or flight.
I went with the flight, he was giving me a flight.
I'm like, not flight.
There was a boxing ring on my arm.
It's not flight. Yeah, well, because that way no one would know that I failed at this thing apart from my wife and that guy and every single person who was relying on this thing going forward anyway whatever I get to Sydney I get to this address and then I knock on the door in North Bondi and this lady opens the door and she says hi Stephen and I went hi she goes I'm Helen this is a lady called Helen Carmichael and she says come on in we sit down we have a couple tea she says how you going I said good good good, good, good.
You know, what the fuck's going on?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Is this top zone or top zone?
Anyway, I went tops off and now she goes...
and so she goes, right, okay, that's good.
And then within 30 seconds, I was a balling mess on her couch. Balling my eyes out, like ugly crying on her couch. Did you know who she was?
No. Never heard of it.
Never seen it before in my life.
Whoa. Did you know what she was?
Nope. I figured she was a human being.
Was on a good instinct.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's an actor's instinct right there.
I know people. Yeah.
And she, and anyway, anyway, on this blubbering mess and she just lets me cry and she just lets me just let it out.
I'm not telling her anything, right?
And then I finally start going as I'm pulling myself together, I start going, this is what's happening.
I'm in this thing. I don't deserve to be in this thing.
I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to fuck it up.
I'm going to fuck it up.
And everyone is going to know that I fucked it up and I'm not good enough to do this thing.
That was, that was the crux of what I was telling this lady.
This lady I never met before.
And I hadn't even told Nazzy enough about how fearful I was.
In fact, I'd been so scared.
And this is where this second part of this question could, you know, could I turn to anyone?
Could I, did I feel like heading on to talk to you?
So, I'd had my wife there, my confidant and I'd sort of, uhh, told her I was a bit nervous but I hadn't told her the full story because I was ashamed of it.
I know, I know what that's like because you almost don't want to say the thing out loud because it sort of makes it real.
So, even the person that you trust more than anything it's like you're even sort of bluffing to them.
Yeah and to my mum and to my brother Bernie who was actually into this world playing my best mate and he's going, you're feeling good?
Yeah man! Feeling good and we've been rehearsing and we sort of felt good in the piece but as I said further to your question, Josh, is that I'd worked on all the piece but hadn't worked on the me bit of it.
So then she, I finally put myself together and she goes, listen, I've got a couple of things to do around the house.
If you wanna have, go over to that table.
And there was a table, like a trestle table with, it looked like a kindergartens table, right?
It had pipe cleaners and figurines and what you would expect to see at a kindy, right?
And she went, I want you to just play, just go and play.
Go and play at that table, and just, I don't know, make me a visual about why that just happened to you.
All right? And so I went, okay.
I'm thinking I'm not a child.
You know what I mean?
Like, everything in you is going, well, I haven't got time for pipe cleaners.
Yeah, I start shooting the king on Monday.
The king. I'm the king, I'm the king.
Anyway, she goes away and she comes back 15 minutes later and she goes, ah cool right.
It's so cliche. I had set up all of these, like, very innocuous animals like a panda bear and whatever all in a circle all facing in and one bigger lion bigger than all the other figurines.
The king of the jungle in the middle being watched by all of the people.
cliche as you could ever imagine.
Like consciously. Or, I wanna say no, but I guess it had to be?
So semi. Yeah, I don't know.
I guess it had to be semi -conscious there.
I'm sure it was, but whatever.
It was just there and it was now in front of me and I'd done it and I couldn't, oop, there she came and I couldn't just knock them off.
And just go, I came up with nothing.
I came up with a pipe cleaner and I'm all good.
And so she goes, what are your thoughts on that?
And this is in keeping with what this incredible woman did for me that day.
She didn't tell me anything.
Like she didn't tell me anything.
She's like the people whisperer or something because she, I did all the talking and she just said, well, okay.
What do you make of that?
And it's like, I don't need to tell you what I make of that.
I, you know who, which one I am and you know what all those other things are.
She said, well, how do you fix it?
and it was as simple as again cliché I'm not I feel like if I was listening to this I'd be going no I picked up the line and I threw it at it now I picked up the line and I just made a bit of space in the circle and the lion goes in the circle and I swapped the line out I took the lion and I threw him away and I got another little innocuous thing and I put him in in the circle and they were all looking in at the same thing.
At each other. At each other.
And kind of went, I, like, I felt like a kindergarten kid.
Do you know what I mean?
Like that's something that a grown adult should know.
So hang on, just to be clear, so there was no one in the middle.
There's no one in the middle.
Gotcha. And it's collaboration.
It is a visual representation of what collaboration is.
whilst Ryan thinks he's the star of this.
There are other people involved in the Purple Guys.
Sometimes, yeah. You know what I mean?
The Northeast out there, past minute.
The North, they're doing a lot there.
They're the duck with the feet and the underwater.
Right, so. But we don't have him in this circle here.
But this is - They're not coming into this circle.
Yes, not yet but if I'll give them 5 more minutes, if I don't get to the point, they probably will.
They'll be forced to.
But it was, you know.
So dumb and so obvious and you think 15 years into my career, that I was then, 16 years into my career, you would think that I would understand collaboration and the simple point of collaboration, which is that no one is more important or less important than the other person and every single person, no matter what their pay scale is there for a reason and doing the same job and wants the same outcome and wants no one to fail And it's not looking at someone to say, fix this, make this better, create something that might otherwise not be there.
Or going back to the old friend that I had, don't stuff it up.
No one is saying don't stuff it up.
Nobody. And that that was a huge, I don't know, epiphany I guess, for me.
And I hugged her for about three minutes on the way out.
But I feel like everyone does this to Helen Carmichael when they leave. And she gives the best hugs.
And I walked out of there walking on air, not literally.
Did she whisper? That'd be weird. Did she whisper?
That'll be $500. I do think what did Savill pay this lady to not say anything.
Like she said nothin, nothing, but she gave a wicked hug.
That's a $500 hug. I mean, anyway, I walked out of there and that was it.
I was on, I was ready to go.
I rang him and he said, huh?
I went, um, yeah, don't know what you did.
He goes how are we?
I went mate, let's go.
I was on board. I was, I was invigorated and this whole production was blessed.
It was such a joyous production.
It was so fun. And so it wasn't stressful like it was about to be.
It wasn't stressful.
It was just fun. And every single person in that thing in this collaborative space, you know, Maddy Savill, the director, Jason Stevens, the producer, Leilani Hana, the DOP, Con Mancusco, the gaffer, everyone from makeup to wardrobe to everyone in the cast just did that thing that I had visually represented.
And of course they were going to, Of course they were going to and it just made me, and it's not like I don't get, you know, anxious about certain things anyway, ever since, but that has helped me ever since and that was in 2006 that we shot it.
That has helped me ever since not only work wise, but in social realms, in, you know, So any part of my life has been improved by that moment of like dumbass realization.
No, I don't think dumbass, I need to be a bit harsh on yourself, I just think it's...
That's just a beautiful story.
It's just... I feel like it's...
I've got so many...
I want to talk about this forever.
However, the collaboration realisation is so powerful and I feel like I just need to hear that today, that's really really helpful.
But how does it help you socially?
That's a great question.
I think.. I've often felt like, because I've always been an extroverted person, I've always felt like there's a pressure to kind of had been a pressure to kind of keep the ball in the and what that did actually is it's not, it's kind of everyone's job, you know what I mean?
Even if someone's been negative or even if someone's...
Whatever. It just might mean an asshole.
That's not on you and that's not going to affect, that doesn't have to affect the whole situation.
You don't have to fix a social interaction.
It's not solely up to you.
It's not solely up to you.
And, you know, I don't know.
The times that I've hung out with you, especially in like bigger social.
I don't think I've, I don't think I know someone who, uh, who is as intentionally inclusive as you are, inclusive of other people.
Because I think you make such an effort.
It's very amazing. It's amazing to watch actually.
You make such an effort to spot the person, whether this is intentional or not.
But from what I can tell, it's like you sort of realize the person who isn't in it.
Yeah. And, and you'll, you'll intentionally, like metaphorically, like grab them and bring them in.
Yeah. So they're, they're on board as well?
Is that, does that?
Yeah, I think that one goes back to childhood for me, I reckon it's just you never wanted to be that, that kid that wasn't part of it.
You know? Yeah. I just reckon it's like, and there were so many, there's so many things, you know, getting to the teenage years or whatever, you know, the footy heads and the whatever's and the cool people.
I don't know, I was the musical theater kid.
I wanted so desperately to be in the cool group or whatever and know that feeling of kind of them going, well, you're just not.
And that's how I found all my lifelong friends is because they kinda weren't either and didn't have to be, you know?
But there's a circle.
There's a circle for them.
There's a circle, if that circle is going to drain you, I don't know, there's a circle for you.
Yeah, but it makes logical sense.
And if like, and you tell him that, I was like, yeah, that makes sense.
But sometimes I feel like it's so hard to, because I think that is quite a common thing.
Which I want to write that story.
I find so powerful, is because acting or not, it's often you feel like everyone's looking at you.
And you feel like oh, God, you know, I've got to – if I don't wear the right thing, everyone's – it's going to be embarrassing or if I say the wrong thing, like everyone – you think everyone's looking at you or talking about you, but in reality, we're all in this together.
And if anything, everyone's feeling the same thing so no one's actually looking at anyone else anyway.
A hundred percent. I used to have this thing when I was working with more experienced actors that I – that they were looking at me in the moment of the scene and realizing that I wasn't quite, you know, I wasn't paranoid about it.
It was just like, I just had this general sense that they just kinda know that I've got stuff to learn, which I did.
I did have it, but they weren't thinking that.
You know, I had the great pleasure of having Bud Tingwell, the great Bud Tingwell, be a mentor of mine in early days and he was so generous and he was so instrumental in getting out of that mindset.
and really just kind of going everyone's kind of making it up and everyone's learning as they go.
Doesn't matter how trained they are, how many films they've done, how many, whatever, how many awards they've won.
It's the, everyone is still in that moment is still making it up and everyone around them wants it to work.
You know, that last bit is the important bit.
I think as well, but for you, that fear of like everyone wants you to succeed.
Yep. Because I feel like it would be, sorry, I shouldn't say for you.
That was probably psychoanalyzing.
is exactly what I've...
I think from... I think I was actually speaking for me as well.
I think I feel like unfairly too much in life that people don't want me to succeed.
And I don't know where I got that idea from, because I don't think that about anyone and I don't know anyone that does.
But it's easy to feel like that.
Okay, so there are probably people out there who have felt that way, but I don't think I've ever worked with them actually.
Or if confronted with that reality of them actually saying I don't want you to, then you would be like, realistically, I don't care what you think then.
Yeah. Well it's like all the deadly sins or whatever.
Envy and hubris are probably kind of fairly intrinsically linked in that way.
There might be people who want to be in your position and think they should be in your position or whatever.
That's fine. That's on them.
That's okay. I don't mind that.
I don't mind the fact that that exists because it does.
But it doesn't in a professional circle like we get to work in, in which almost everyone is doing something they love doing.
I don't think that exists in that world.
I like to believe that it doesn't.
Because people do want you to succeed.
And just as much as you want them to succeed.
But I imagine that that is not always the case in creative and professional fields and the learning that you had, you've taken onto future projects and made sure that that environment exists.
100 percent. A hundred percent.
I think being thankful for what I said before about your hobby, it's my hobby, it's what I love doing and they're going to pay me to do it.
I think being thankful for that feeds into that.
I think you want to be and you do at this, Ryan too is Ron and I've worked together before and you come in Not only are you prepared not only you ready to work be coming with an energy that says I'm here for you guys that I'm the let's do this as a team It's not you're not walking in we've all seen people walking in occasionally going on the hmm I'm the star.
The Lion. That thankfulness and that appreciation of what we get to do for a job.
It's crazy what we get to do for a job.
Yeah, he's different round here.
Oh, bet he is. No, bet he is.
Why is his chair slightly higher than your chair?
It's like a fucking throne, isn't it?
Just represents the pay scale.
Yeah, you guys are on, what's that, milk crates?
Why are you guys on milk crates?
I'm actually kneeling.
The milk crate can get quite uncomfortable, huh?
And when the knees start bleeding you know that he's entered.
I've got most of my jobs done.
But, so it's, what?
Come on, Ryan. Sorry.
Yes, please. No, you're talking has been beautiful.
I wanted to ask about the feeling of the fear of saying something your deepest fear out loud, will make it concrete and real.
Yup. How did it feel to say it out loud in relation to that?
Incredible, incredible.
And even coming back so elated to Nazzy as well and kind of get you told of the whole story and the fact that I had omitted a lot of my fear to my most trusted person was crazy, it was crazy to me and it was like she was going, at the same time I'm going, I'm right here, you know what I mean?
But that feeling, that weight off the shoulders was immense because the relief of being able to go, if I tell, and it's not just telling Nadsy, if I tell my friend Matt the director, if I tell Jason the producer, if I tell anyone, they're going to think less of me or they're going to fear that it's going to envelop me or it's going to make me crumble or whatever, there was this absolute pride and again, that hubris that I mentioned before, that you're kind of going, well, no, I've got the role because I'm me, you know, but if I reveal that the real me is incredibly fearful of making a complete
mess of it, then that'll be the end of that version of me.
Which it's not. And it won't be.
And even if the show was a disaster, it wouldn't be the end of, it wouldn't be the end of me.
It'd be probably a time for serious soul searching and having to confront my perhaps that I had to work harder at it or find someone else to do, you know what I mean?
But it wasn't the end of me, but I think not saying it could well have been the end of me.
Yeah, absolutely. Definitely.
Come. So what is Helen?
Yeah. She seems like a - Human.
Being I'm gonna, what I'm gonna do, have we got a, have we got addiction?
I don't. Actually I've got a table with a lot of money.
She seems like one of those people that if you went back to the apartment a day later, I'd be like a family for.
There's been no Helen here for 10 years.
I don't have any proof that she exists.
I don't. No. I think saying life coach is probably not quite...
I think somewhere between a life coach and a people whisperer, I don't know.
I don't know. Yeah.
But she has an energy about her that...
When we talked yesterday, it was the first time we'd ever talked, right Hugh?
And the first thing I said to you is I feel like you're one of my best mates, right?
Because there is an energy...
And it goes for all of you.
I don't mean to say...
It was just because I spoke to Hugh, so don't feel bad Josh.
No, it is. Listening to this show, and the reason I like listening to it while I kill the hydrangeas with too much Sun, is that very thing that there's an energy that exudes, that is kind of impossible to quantify or to put into words.
Every time I've heard this show, I know you and I love you, Ryan.
And I feel like you know we're friends now.
I don't think it's that much different and your resilience project is testament to that where I don't think it can be taught what she does.
I don't think there's a course to teach her how to be Helen Karmic.
But does she do that for actors?
Is that something that she - I think just people.
Not to anyone. Yeah.
Other people. Cause she's a person.
She's a human being.
She's a human being.
We've booked it out for a while now if we can just get her details up on that.
Well, I hope she doesn't mind me telling her the secret at the table, cause then the people go, I knew this bit was coming.
I didn't want to ruin that for her.
No. But I don't know.
I don't, I don't, I don't know there's the honesty.
I don't know what would be on her business card. It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter. But, but she's one of those people.
She's just one of those people.
And very rarely in your life do you get to meet one of those people that I don't know, can say nothing to you and teach you everything about yourself.
This funny thought that she was just a lady at home and Mat had had given you the wrong address and you knocked on the door.
She's just a fan of your work.
Walked in, walked in and started crying and she neverDed her.
I played my kids toys for me!
It's a little time he's off at Kindy.
So you might want to come.
I have some cleaning to do, but you have to entertain yourself.
Come in, Stephen, I just have to go and call the police.
Yes. There is a mid -level jobbing actor crying on my couch for some reason.
And then he hugged me and wouldn't let go.
And I just hugged him.
And gave him money.
And now she's made a career out of it.
Sit on the couch crying, make some toys.
Oh, it's funny. You know, many years later, I did a very small blink and you miss it role on Thor love and thunder, Famous Blue Alien.
And I was put into a position and Tyker as in the, Marvel character.
And literally I'm in two scenes in this movie, right?
But Tiker, who I love dearly, that's Tiker Waititi, who I love, who I think is an incredible, he's a bloody genius, he has so much going on in his head that he didn't, I guess he probably didn't remember that we hadn't actually talked about my character at all.
At all. So when I auditioned for it, I didn't even know it was Thor and I didn't even know I just got this script and I had to rouse some troops and I had to do it as an Australian and as an American and I got the role.
Then I find out I'm playing a blue alien king in Thor, Love and Thunder.
And I've got to help Thor.
Thor has come here to help me eradicate these evil sort of bat things from destroying my kingdom and Thor ends up destroying my kingdom through trying to do it.
That's the gag, right?
Very trophy. Very trophy.
And my character gives him his goats that scream the rest of the way through the movie.
Anyway, he hadn't mentioned to me, like I kept saying, hey, tiger, can I quickly have a chat about the, you know, we talking American Australian or whatever, right?
And I've got this crazy blue three hours in prosthetics and I'm going, can I just, and the first day of shooting, right?
I had this slab, the biggest thing that I do in the thing, which is like a half page monologue thing, that I've got a day.
And then I went, and I get in there, I've waited all day and I finally go, okay, they're ready for you.
And I get on to set and there are 400 people.
This is a Marvel movie.
This is a $150 million Marvel movie, right?
I don't know what I'm doing, okay?
If it wasn't for Helen Carmichael, I'd be in a ball by now because I'm going, you know what, it's cool.
No one wants you to fail.
Go out there and have some fun.
All right, knock knock knock.
Okay, Stephen, we're ready for you.
They take me out onto this massive sound stage.
400 people, I'm just walking up and I went, hey.
And then I'd met Chris Hemsworth at an audition 15 years earlier but never seen him since.
And I went, hey, and they went, hey, Kristi, you know Stephen went, yap, yap.
Hey, Chris, this is Chris Pratt.
Yeah, hey, and now I'm standing between Chris Hemsworth and Chris Pratt not knowing what I'm meant to be doing.
Whether it's American or Australian.
And running through the accent of it's American, knowing the accent, but then also it's a lot of words.
So making sure it got all the words and then they went, okay, I turn over and I'm standing there going, well, Tiker, what are we doing, right?
Where am I? And he goes, am I starting with the monologue?
He goes, what monologue?
He went, the monologue.
From the thing. And he goes, oh no, we're not doing that scene.
We're doing another scene, in which Thor and Quill are looking at their spaceship and it's covered in your cat shit.
Your cat has shadow over the spaceship.
And I went, okay, and they're gonna say something.
And we'll try again.
They're just gonna say something.
And there's 400 people there watching, right?
Not looking at me waiting for me to fail.
They wait for me to succeed, but I'm gonna ask you.
I might fail Okay, so what what and he goes?
Okay, so Chris Pratt is probably gonna just say something like what's that?
And then you say it's your ship and then he says what's it covered in and you say something like cat shit All right.
Okay. Oh Turn over.
Oh, sorry Australian or American And he goes oh Uh, try as an Australian.
So I go, turn over, and action.
And he goes, what's that?
I say, oh, that's your ship.
And he goes, what's the cover?
And I said, catch it.
Yeah, that's not working.
Fail. I didn't feel like it was.
No. What do you reckon going to America?
And he goes, nah, no. I know this is asking a hate cycle.
Can you direct me? No, no, no. And again, I love the idea.
I actually appreciate what he did because it's like deep end stuff.
And thanks, Alan Carmichael, because I quite enjoy the deep end stuff now.
Anyway, and he goes, I said, so, American?
He goes, nah, you know what, cars, try it as an alien.
What is an alien sound?
He goes, will you show me?
Turn over. 400 people.
Oh, Chris Hemsworth, Chris Pratt, me, in my alien face.
And action. And he goes, what's that?
And I say, that is your ship.
And he says the alien for Eastern Europe.
And he says, what's the— And I went, cut.
Oh that's a rap. That's it?
What? I'm not going to go, no, no, it's a rap, it's fine.
It's good. Is that the—he goes, yep, that's your voice.
So the next day, I had to go back to my hotel room all night and go, what voice did I do?
I didn't even remember what voice I did, I just cut shit or whatever.
I have no idea what voice I was doing, but it would have been, honestly, it would have been one of those moments where it's like, I'm out.
I can't, you know, it would have made me capitulate, but what it did is, like, it kind of made me laugh.
Like it made me laugh and I went home, I was peaking when I got home, don't get me wrong.
But the whole thing was like, I'd been, I'd been taught many years earlier that you're not being set up to fail.
You're being set up to succeed and Tyker was kind of going, I trust you with that.
And it's also one of those things where you, you always forget this but you got to hope that they've cast you for a reason.
And it's like it's the thing of like you know, I've heard basketball coaches talk about this or in a lot of professional sports It's like when you're training You like teaching the player how to play and so but when it's game time Yeah, just trust I know what they're doing a hundred percent the scenes not in the movie That scene didn't make it in the movie but the accent that we worked so hard on during that scene certainly So the scene I was meant to do that day, made it into the film with the accent that we jammed in front of 400 people and my two favourite tall famous crisses.
And it was just bonkers, it was bonkers.
Wow. You got any other great stories you want to show us?
So anyway, it's day two on The Nugget and...
Eric Banner has just started calling me Kaz, a nickname for me, not my actual name, a nickname.
And I'm thinking, I have a needed.
I have not. That's my only story.
That's my only story.
I have something that I think is worth emphasizing off the back of that.
Maybe it's gilding the Lily, so to speak.
Gilding the hydrangea.
Yeah, gilding the hydrangea.
But I think it's easy to hear that story and say, well, that's such an incredible story with like, it's Taika, it's Chris Pratt, it's Marvel, it's you, it's this huge world.
Oh, it's got all the makings of clickbait.
Yeah, but, yeah. It's gonna do great online.
Yeah, which thanks for that.
But I think it's really so pertinent to everyone in that like I think when I think of my life up until this point where I would be doing like a little job for like I used to be like a freelance sort of film not filmmaker freelance content creator where I've like filmed things for small brands and like anyone who's done that, I've done some embarrassingly small jobs that I've sucked at, that I failed at.
And I've felt like a failure for a lot of doing that and I think a lot of people who do any job of any level turn up to a job and feel like a failure every day when they turn up and I think I, for a long time I was under the allure that I need to be the one that it succeeds here to overcome that feeling of failure like it needs to be me that gets the credit.
So I don't feel like a failure anymore.
But it wasn't until doing this job with Ryan Hubridge, George Beller, that the full time that I started to realize that it's our success that will make me no longer feel like a failure not my success.
Awesome. And it's exactly what you're talking about in that scene and the whole story.
but I just wanted to like emphasize that I think it runs all the way down to prep at school.
Like it's about us succeeding as a group that will make you feel more of a success.
Not yet. Yes, I, yes.
I mean, it's a bit redundant to say I agree because you know, that's what it's banging on about.
But yes, I can't agree more wholeheartedly and I don't think, and you mentioned before Ryan about, you know, it doesn't matter what you do.
It's not specific in any way to our industry, as you've just proven to Josh, but, um, I just, I believe it wholeheartedly.
And, and you know, to, to be able to come at anything you do at any age, and, you know, I've got, I've got young kids and my, my oldest has just started secondary school and, you know, for him to be able to feel like he's part of something and not, and not fear, you know, it's a very confronting thing for anyone to sort of start a new school or you know, to, to, you know, It can be a big upheaval in his life and stuff.
And he's got a good crew around him and they do that, and they're 12.
And no one's setting him up to fail.
He knows that. He knows we're not.
And I do think it should, in a perfect world stuff, very young for people to be able to feel that sense of security in whatever their pursuit might be.
Yeah, absolutely. And it's a great observation, Josh, but to round it all off to say that, and to link it to the theme of this whole podcast, but it starts by being vulnerable enough to say I'm scared, I'm going to fail.
Like that's what started being able to actually say out loud, which would be a very difficult thing for a lot of people to do.
But to say I'm scared, I'm going to fail, scared I'm not good enough.
Yeah. That's where it started.
Yeah. And okay. So then going back into what, specifically in our industry, I always had this thing about if you show that kind of vulnerability, you're very expendable.
And so, our industry, I don't have experience in any other industry, apart from the baking industry, of course.
But, my mum asked me years ago, so, do you think you've made it?
It's a really interesting question.
And I kind of thought about it, and kind of went, I don't think you ever have. You know, there are people who've made it, I don't know what made it means, never have to work again, or feel like you've worked your entire career and built in.
and succeeded in whatever field you want to do.
But I think that the fear was that, it's like, if you're going to slow us down, then irreplaceable.
My dad said to me years ago, he said about the acting, he said, the reason you want to find something to fall back on is because, as you think about a flat -head, we're always fishing.
And he said, what happens when we catch a flat -head?
I went, I don't know, we eat it.
And he goes, no, another flatty just comes into its place.
And it's a really good point, right.
And he was an accountant.
So he was ensconced.
So the harder he worked, the more he could feel assured that he'd done the work and he could stay employed, right?
Whereas in our game, you know, the old thing about you're only as good as your last job or whatever.
I think you're only as good as your next job because you never know, like you never set.
and that was that fear that they kind of go in my head it's like if you tell them that you that you're vulnerable that you're prone to self -doubt or any of that sort of stuff in a industry that's all about it's a confidence game in my head it was, you can't say that because the next dude just looks a bit like him but just a bit better looking I know it's hard to believe but we'll just come along and take your place and that's rubbish, you know, I don't I don't subscribe to that at all.
And I think it's you know, I think we're in a time now where it's a lot easier to be able to talk about things.
But I started in 1989, where it was, you know, it was very much an old school mentality.
And it was back when first, these used to just just they were old, white, angry men, and they would yell at anyone they wanted to, including me, including anyone if you just weren't if you didn't hit your mark or if you dropped a line or if you're whatever and they'd be yelling at the lower you know the people on the lower rungs of the crew or they'd be they'd be just destroying someone in makeup or or wardrobe for taking too long on set and slowing his day down and all that sort of stuff.
They sound great. They go they're gone.
They're gone. As you know Ryan that you rarely will you work with a first AD so first AD first assistant director on a set is there to keep the day moving, is there to get the whole call sheet for that day shot?
That's their job. But the good ones, and the ones that get all the work these days, are the ones who are really ...
It's almost like, the later you're getting, and the more down you are, the broader they smile.
And Annie Maver, so Annie Maver is the first day that he's worked with Working Dog, and did the castle, and the happiest, most bubbly, lovely person you'll ever meet, but far out.
If you're down in a day, you don't know it.
Not your fault. She gets done because she makes everyone feel like they're in that circle that I talked about.
Yup. Do I talk too much?
Perfect amount. No. Don't say anything else, but you've hit the perfect amount.
I think it's worth saying on the, I don't know if this is like a caveat to, we talk about this a bit with vulnerability to always vulnerable responsibly.
Because I think it's important to be reminded to be vulnerable with people who you really trust. You want that when you are going to go to that point that is so terrifying, it's really important that you're held with care and love.
Like a random woman in an apartment or something.
Yeah exactly. Stole one of her pipe cleaners too.
Your point before of the fear of someone else taking your role.
If you, I guess the great irony that you're carrying so much that you're never going to bring your best to what you're doing anyway, so not sharing it is more dangerous than sharing it but also just being, I don't know, I don't want to scare people off being vulnerable but I think it's important to make sure that you're not going up to that old first AD that that you were talking about, but going to people who you trust and have your best interests at heart?
And that was one of the reasons why I felt a bit, sort of, I don't know, dumb or something, because I have so many, I'm so fortunate.
I mentioned this at the start.
I'm so fortunate to have so many people who I can trust and who I can rely on.
And I've been incredibly fortunate in my life in that regard and to kind of, to see the wood for the trees and that to realise it hadn't lent on any of them in the way that I would love for them to lean on me is bonkers to me.
When referring to some of the revelations you had with Helen, you have used some pretty negative language to describe yourself?
Yeah. Sorry about that.
No. Don't apologise.
It's just interesting and it would be interesting to hear how you view the version of Stephen and Curry, non basketball that went into that room that day?
Oh, right. Yeah. I would, I would say now, looking back after everything you've learnt.
I would say, I see someone who's risking cutting, cutting themselves off from a lot of future opportunity.
I think there is this, I mentioned fight or flight, and I think that that guy was really in danger of not getting to a point that I am right now, which I'm a very happy person and fulfilled person.
And that doesn't just, I'm not defined by my job or anything like that, but I think it speaks to his attitude and to his belief in himself.
I didn't have kids back then.
I genuinely think my epiphany, if we're going to call it that, has led to me being a happier and more successful person in life.
Successful at being a person.
successful at being a person.
Like Helen Carmock was a person, but I mention she's a human being.
Yeah, if that makes any sense.
It does. Yeah, it's beautiful.
I think that guy was.
Yeah, I think he was he was in danger of shouting himself off from opportunity.
Incredible. I just it was weird coming in here.
It was kinda like, oh my god, don't talk too much. Well, don't talk too little.
And I was mentioning to you yesterday on the phone here, it was like, here are people who have come into this show who have had some really, really horrible, horrible things happened in their lives.
And I'm going to come and talk about the time that I was, you know, I was a bit, I was a bit worried that I wasn't gonna be very good or whatever, you know, but it's just, it's been awesome.
I've really, really enjoyed the chat.
And this why I enjoy listening to this show is because it is, again, it is that kind of collaborative approach to a conversation in which no one wants you to fail.
Well, it's a, you might be right in saying that may not be the trauma that I guess have maybe experience, but I feel like it's equally as helpful, um, to be able to hear something that we all grapple with from day to day, which is, um, essentially confidence and self esteem and, and belief.
And I think to hear a story of someone like yourself ostensibly who's just got it all sorted to hear the, at one point you didn't.
And the journey of being through, it's been a pleasure to be in the circle with you today.
Thank you guys. I really appreciate it.
It's a great gift. Thank you.
I love you. I'll have you in.
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The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service and is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.
The advice given in this episode is general in nature, but if you're struggling please see a healthcare professional or call Lifeline on 13 11 14.
