Lemonada.
Brains on Universe.
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Now, on with the show.
From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
The show for people with big opinions.
Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best.
I hope you're hungry, because we've got a heaping plate of debate for you.
We're pitting two perfect pastas against each other.
It's spaghetti versus ravioli.
Here to lay on the sauce for spaghetti is chef and cookbook author Julia Tertian.
Go spaghetti!
And getting rowdy for ravioli, we've got science communicator and host Neba of Notes by Neba.
I'm so excited to be here because ravioli conquers space and time and taste.
Excellent.
And here to judge it all is Madalena from San Diego, California.
Madalena loves making practical crafts.
She's traveled to nearly all the national parks around the West Coast.
She speaks Chinese, and her favorite subject in school is her media class where kids do a newscast.
Welcome, Madalena.
Hi, I'm so happy to be here.
So, Madalena, as a seasoned visitor to national parks, do you have a favorite?
Yes, my favorite is Yosemite.
I love it because it's so big and beautiful.
And recently this summer, I climbed to the top of Haftam.
Whoa, how long did that take?
It took about six hours.
That's incredible.
Did you have to train?
No, I went on a backpacking trip and then we were just hiking up the hill.
Excellent.
So since today's a food debate, what's your favorite backpacking snack?
My favorite backpacking snack is probably beef jerky.
Delicious.
So you do a newscast with your class.
How does that work?
Do you have like different parts?
Is there a specific topic you cover?
Yeah, we all have different roles, such as anchor and camera and audio, and we cover local and school news and put announcements out to all the students.
So what's your favorite role you've had when you've done the newscast?
My favorite role is probably anchor.
Oh, okay.
So we're getting some of that anchor experience showing through today.
And I'm wondering, do you have any advice for our debaters today?
Some advice I have for our debaters is to be funny and passionate about the subject.
Perfect.
Excellent advice.
Will Madalina choose Neba and ravioli or Julia and spaghetti?
We'll find out soon.
But first, here are the rules of the game.
Every debate consists of four rounds.
The declaration of greatness, the micro round, the sneak attack and the final six.
After each round, our judge Madalena will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge, too.
Mark down your points as you listen.
At the end of the show, head to our website smashboomorg, and vote for whichever team you think won.
Okay, Julia, Neba, and Madalena, are you ready?
Oh, yeah.
I was born ready.
I am so excited.
We're going to beat Noodles.
No way.
Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness.
In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side.
Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements.
We flipped a coin, and Neba, you're up first.
Tell us why ravioli is really the raddest.
Before we pick up our forks, let's get a little philosophical.
What exactly is a ravioli?
Sure, it's delicious stuffing with cooked dough on both sides which is kind of like a mini sandwich.
So is ravioli technically a sandwich?
Or is it more like a taco?
Is a taco a sandwich?
And are both of them actually ravioli?
Whoa, Neba, you're blowing my mind.
Yeah, ravioli does that.
And it blows your taste buds, too.
There are lots of flavors, from ones packed with spicy meats to ones filled with cheesy treats, and every bite feels like it's hiding a secret.
I love when you put a ravioli in your mouth and soft pasta gives way to something warm and unexpected inside.
Maybe it's creamy spinach or savory mushrooms.
And my favorite is when you can press your tongue into a tiny opening in the dough and taste the filling before you take a bite.
It's so texturally satisfying, like unwrapping a delicious gift with your mouth.
It's the birthday present of foods.
Exactly.
It's even fun to say.
Ravioli.
And there are so many different kinds of stuffed pasta.
Tortellini, tortelloni, mezzaluna, capiletti, agnolotti, panzotti, cannelloni, manicotti.
All as delightful to speak as they are to eat.
But now, do you realize what they all have in common?
They're all tasty?
Yes.
And also, what are they all wrapped in?
Pasta dough?
That's right.
Ravioli is just filling wrapped in dough, which is basically a dumpling.
That makes sense.
And dumplings are all over the world.
So that means every culture has its own kind of ravioli with different names.
Let's take a trip.
Welcome aboard Bonnevaux Ravioli Airlines, the only airline for ravioli lovers.
Better buckle up.
We've got a big trip ahead of us.
First stop, India for samosas.
Then gyozas in Japan.
We'll have pierogies in Poland and pelmeni in Russia.
Save room for Chinese wontons and Argentinian empanadas.
Then it's off to Nepal for momos and Korea for mandu.
And to top it off, we're heading to Germany for a dessert dumpling called a dampf noodle.
Hope you're hungry.
I am, because I love seeing how different types of food echo through cultures.
But one thing that won't echo is my belly after eating all those worldwide raviolis.
But wait until you hear about space ravioli.
Wait, space ravioli?
Oh, yeah.
It turns out that some of Saturn's moons are shaped like giant floating space raviolis, which is a very strange shape for a moon.
And while chances are they're not filled with herbs and cheese, they are filled with science.
Because scientists have had to come up with all kinds of theories to explain how they got this strange and strangely appetizing shape.
Maybe they pulled material from Saturn's rings to their equators to make this pillow shape.
Or maybe the shapes formed after lots of small particles collided into the moons.
It's kind of an ongoing debate, but there's really no debating that ravioli is so beloved.
We see it everywhere, even in the stars.
So ravioli is not just one thing.
At its core, it's stuffed pasta.
But you can stuff it with so many different foods and flavors.
Ravioli is also just another type of dumpling, which is a food that every culture makes on its own.
It's a morale-boosting hero and a mood-boosting dinner.
Ravioli contains multitudes.
Wow, that's a lot of things stuffed in those pasta pillows.
Sure is.
But hey, that's ravioli.
It's a little pocket of endless, I gotta do it, I'm so sorry, pastabilities.
Incredible.
A delightful argument wrapped in a delicious dough.
Madalina, what stood out to you about Neba's argument?
I like how she compared it to other fruits and cultures to show how many varieties of ravioli there are.
And also, you cannot beat the pun at the end.
We love a good pun here on Smash Boom Best.
Okay, we are going to go to Julia's rebuttal.
You've got 30 seconds to chew up and spit out Neva's arguments.
Your time starts now.
Well, Nebo made a lot of great arguments, but the thing that's at the top of my mind is yes, ravioli are very fun to eat, but what about cooking them?
What about making them?
You know, I'm a cookbook author, so I think a lot about how people make things.
And ravioli is so much work to make.
So yes, they're wrapped and filled with things, but that means someone had to wrap them and fill them, which is so much labor.
Also, ravioli is not shelf-stable.
Sure, you can make it ahead, but you have to use a freezer to keep them.
And time.
Okay, I have more to say.
I have so many thoughts.
Are you kidding?
Yes, I agree that cooking and making them is hard.
But this is about eating them, you know, just stuffing them in your face, 12 raviolis at once.
And to your point about ravioli is not shelf stable.
This is actually not true.
There are raviolis that are shelf stable.
Are they as yummy as the ravioli that needs to be refrigerated?
No, but that's beside the point.
The point here is that ravioli is shelf stable.
You can cook them all in one go, throw them in a pot and then shove like a hundred of them in your face, because they even make tiny ones that are smaller than your fingernails.
The debate is reaching a boil.
So let's set it to simmer and we'll be right back.
Okay, Julia, I know you have a lot more to say, which is great because it's your turn.
So please tell us why you're always ready for more spaghetti.
Spaghetti isn't just one of my favorite foods.
It's also something I turn to for inspiration for how to live.
Sort of like a life coach.
But Julia, it's pasta.
How can it be a life coach?
Have you ever heard of spag etiquette?
Etiquette is how to behave so that you do well in polite society.
Spaghetti etiquette, or spag etiquette, is how to behave so that you do well in life.
You see, spaghetti can do it all.
It can be firm or soft, fancy or casual.
It can be elaborate or simple.
It is truly a complex carbohydrate.
That's why it pays to be like spaghetti.
Try this.
First, make yourself strong and rigid.
Channel the fortitude of dry pasta.
You can and will survive the apocalypse in the dry goods cabinet.
Now, let it all go.
Wiggle your arms like boiled noodles.
You are flexible.
You can adapt to any situation or to any sauce.
Doesn't that feel good?
I first fell in love with spaghetti when I learned to use a fork.
I just loved twirling as much as I could onto one forkful.
Okay, the first rule of spag etiquette is to like fun.
I do like fun.
Perfect, because twirling it on your fork is fun.
Slurping a noodle?
Fun.
Making it look like a nest and pretending all the meatballs are eggs?
So fun.
The fun factor is the fourth best thing about spaghetti.
Wait, the fourth?
What are the other best things?
I'm so glad you asked.
The third best thing is that it's super easy.
For a lot of people, boiling spaghetti is the first meal they learn to make, because all you really need to do is heat up some water, add some noodles and just take them out when they're soft.
But just because it's easy doesn't mean it's boring.
Which brings me to the second best thing about spaghetti.
It works with so many flavors.
It's a blank canvas.
The classic spaghetti with red marinara sauce is amazing, but you can also eat it with herbs and olive oil or a cheesy Alfredo sauce.
One of my favorite dishes is green spaghetti, made with a sauce with kale, spinach, and basil.
It's so fresh and satisfying.
Or sometimes I make a twist, get it, a twist, that is both unexpected and unbeatable.
It's called Caesar spaghetti.
It's got all the parts of a Caesar salad, like Parmesan cheese and anchovies, combined with all the joy of hot pasta.
In the Philippines they make a sweet spaghetti that's flavored with banana, ketchup or condensed milk.
In Mexico, they make espagueti verde with poblano peppers, crema, and Mexican cheeses.
They even eat tons of spaghetti all the way in Ethiopia.
So many recipes, so many places, but just one great pasta.
Okay, it's fun, easy, and works with a lot of flavors.
That's three reasons.
What's the final one?
The number one best thing about spaghetti is that it's so delicious.
The taste, the texture, the length, the shape.
It all combines to make something so special.
Who is ever not in the mood for spaghetti?
That's actually a trick question.
Everyone is always in the mood for spaghetti.
Which is why I try to always be more like spaghetti.
I try to have fun.
I aim to keep things simple, but I can get fancy when I need to.
I incorporate lots of ideas and flavors into my life, and I savor the delicious moments.
So say it with me.
I am strong.
I am strong.
I am flexible.
I am flexible.
I am spaghetti.
I am spaghetti.
And now I'm hungry.
Well, great.
Come with me.
I've got some noodles in the cabinet.
Let's go cook up some magic.
Okay, I really should have eaten lunch before today's taping.
I am so hungry.
Caesar spaghetti?
Yes, please.
I would love that.
Madalena, what stood out to you about Julia's arguments?
I really like the spaghetti kit and how Julia points out that it's easy to make and gave examples of all the really tasty flavors like marinara and alfredo.
Delicious.
All right, Neba, you have 30 seconds to take a bite out of Julia's arguments.
Tell us why spaghetti is nothing but a wet noodle.
Your time starts now.
You made great attempts at a fight.
I have major respect for people who can cook.
I love the spaghetti etiquette of learning to bend with what life throws at you.
But you're saying it's fun to slurp it up.
It is so annoying to do that because the sauce goes everywhere, all over your face.
You're saying it's easy to make.
You just boil, add noodles.
That's literally the same thing that you do for ravioli, except with ravioli you don't even need a strainer.
Because you can just tilt the pot, hold the ravioli in place with your cooking utensil.
It's so annoying to pour the noodles out and then turns out your colander is the same size as your noodles.
And whoops, all your noodles are now in the sink.
All the sauces that you're describing could go inside and around ravioli too.
I have so many thoughts.
I'm sorry.
You know what?
I think I'm here for team pasta just all around.
Pasta brings us all together, no matter the shape.
All right, Madalena, it is time to award some points.
Please give one point to the Declaration of Greatness that you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over.
You get to decide what makes a winning argument.
Did one team's jokes make you giggle?
Was another team's logic impeccable?
Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.
Have you made your decision?
Yes, I have.
Excellent.
Julia and Neba, how are you two feeling so far?
I feel very confident about spaghetti's potential here.
I feel so certain about ravioli.
You know, even yesterday I made ravioli soup.
After this, I'm going to go eat it.
It's the most incredible thing.
What can I say?
All right.
It is time for a quick break.
Go get some seconds and don't forget to sprinkle on some cheese.
And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
You're listening to State of Debate, home to raging rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
Hi, debate besties.
This is Taylor Lincoln.
And I'm a Todd to her Douglas, Todd Douglas.
I have so many favorite things about you, friend.
Aw, like what?
Name them.
Well, I think you're kind and you're sporty.
You're reliable.
You're talented.
Just like me.
We have so much in common.
Well, thank you for those compliments for me and for yourself.
This reminds me of a conversation I overheard between two best friends the other day.
Ooh, did someone use a logical fallacy?
They make arguments oh so flimsy.
They sure did.
And it was a banger.
Let's listen.
Franny, you know, I'm so grateful for this time with you.
Things have been wild lately.
Yeah, I always feel so centered when we go on our walks.
OMG, we said the same thing at the same time.
And we both like walks.
It's almost like we're the same person.
Yeah, Wendy, I guess.
Let's go get a snack.
We're hungry.
I'm actually pretty full.
I just ate a big Caesar wrap and... No, no, no, no, no.
We're hungry.
Remember?
We said the same thing at the same time just a second ago, which means we're exactly alike.
Which means we're both really hungry right now.
I don't think that's how it works.
Oh, look, a churro stand.
Oh, we're so hungry.
Let's go.
Okay, just because Franny and Wendy said the same thing at the same time doesn't mean they're the same person feeling the same things.
Exactly.
This is an example of a false equivalency, where someone thinks that two things are the same, even though they only share one trait.
Even though they have that one thing in common, it doesn't mean Franny wanted a churro.
Correct.
But now that we brought it up, I do.
Well, we better go get you one.
We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
Best.
Boom.
Smash.
Smash.
Boom.
You're listening to Smash Boom Best.
I'm your host, Molly Bloom.
And I'm your judge, Madalina.
And we love getting debate suggestions from our listeners.
Here's one from Under the Sea.
Hi, my name is Gio and I live in Los Angeles, California.
My debate idea is orcas versus humpback whales.
That's a debate that's going to make us splash.
We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Gio thinks should win.
And now it's time to go back to this debate, spaghetti versus ravioli.
And now it's time for round two, the micro round.
Julia and Neba will each get three chances to make a micro argument backed by a cool fact.
Neba went first last round.
So, Julia, start us off.
Well, I know Neba knows a lot about science, but spaghetti also teaches us about science.
This noodle has baffled physicists because it doesn't break like you would expect.
You can actually try it at home.
Take a dry noodle, a piece of spaghetti, out of the cabinet and just try to break it in half.
Chances are it'll break into three or more pieces.
In fact, a famous physicist named Richard Feynman apparently once spent a good part of the evening breaking spaghetti trying to figure this out.
And in 2005, some researchers cracked the case.
It turns out that when you break spaghetti, there is a snapback or a vibration in the pasta.
That causes more breaks in the noodle itself.
Spaghetti, it feeds our bellies and challenges our minds.
All right.
I got to admit, I'm always a sucker for a good science fact, and that was really, really cool.
But to bring it right back to you, I also have a really cool science fact.
This one's a little bit more gravity-based, which is the fact that ravioli is big on taste but also big on being big.
There's the record for the world's largest raviolo – which is singular for ravioli –
It is a whopping 175 pounds.
That is literally more than like two full grown golden retrievers worth of ravioli.
I don't think you can make a single pasta noodle that big.
And I don't think a single pasta noodle that big would even be yummy.
But a giant 175 pound ravioli, I feel like I could eat that in like maybe a day.
I just want to know how they cooked it.
A giant, giant pot, my guy.
Yeah.
So that's pretty cool about the big ravioli.
But if you want to talk about size, the biggest bowl of spaghetti ever made was at a restaurant in California near Disneyland called Buca di Beppo.
Their dish was the size of an entire above-ground pool.
Honestly it might sound like a lot of noodles, but I would imagine a class of hungry third graders could polish that off in maybe an hour.
Mm.
All right, that is pretty cool.
All this big food is making me think about food waste.
And here's the thing, with ravioli, it is the perfect way to turn leftovers into something exciting.
That kale sauce that you mentioned in your Declaration of Greatness, that sounds delicious.
What if we just put that into ravioli?
What if you take whatever scraps you have, turn it into stuffing, wrap it up in pasta and boom, now you have delicious ravioli dinner.
It's part of all the four R's of cutting back waste, reduce, reuse, recycle, and ravioli.
Well, I think that's a pretty cool idea.
I love thinking about different ways you can use leftovers, so I have to give that to you.
But another thing I think is really cool about spaghetti is it's more than just a food.
It's actually a useful word.
Some dresses have what we call spaghetti straps.
Old Western movies made in Europe were called spaghetti Westerns.
And the phenomenon of falling into a black hole.
It's called spaghettification, because things that go in a black hole are stretched out into super thin strings.
We love using spaghetti to describe things almost as much as we love eating it.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, there are many ways to look at it.
Just as there are lots of different types of ravioli, there's lots of ways to cook ravioli.
There's toasted ravioli, which is a regional dish from St.
Louis.
The legend actually has it that a chef dropped some raviolis into a deep fryer by accident and, rather than throwing it away, they tasted it, and it turns out that was really yummy.
It's not actually toasted.
It's literally just deep fried.
That's just the name.
But you could also, you know, like bake ravioli.
You could boil it, which is the most common.
But no matter how you cook it, ravioli is just such a great crowd pleaser.
Those were some excellent, excellent facts.
Madalena, what was memorable to you about this micro round?
I really liked the fun facts about size of spaghetti and ravioli like the biggest ones that were ever made.
Yeah, spaghetti and ravioli are clearly good friends.
There's a lot of similarities.
We love that they are...
I think maybe made for each other.
But unfortunately, only one of them can get a point for this round.
Madalina, the criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you.
Please award a point for this micro round, but don't tell us who it's going to.
Have you made your decision?
Yes.
Yes.
Fantastic.
Hold tight.
We'll be right back with more debate after this.
Smash Boom.
We are back, and it's time for our third round, the super stealthy sneak attack.
This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot.
Today's sneak attack is What's That Word?
Neba and Julia.
We're going to provide you with three words related to your topic in secret, and it's going to be your job to get Madalena to guess what they are without using the words themselves.
Julia went first last time, so Neba, you're up.
Madalena, you ready to guess?
Yes.
All right.
Neba, you've got 30 seconds, and I'll start the clock when you start talking.
Alrighty, Madalina, you got this one.
Don't overthink it.
It's literally just past blank future.
And then the blank is the word.
Past blank future.
Present ding ding ding, um.
The next one is a thing that goes on your bed.
It's the thing that you put your head on.
It's fluffy and it's a pillow awesome.
And then next is the item that makes both ravioli and spaghetti.
Um, you make it with flour and water and it turns into a oh, is it dough?
And time?
Oh, snuck it in there.
Very nice, good job, my girl.
You, i knew you got this Excellent teamwork.
Okay, Madalena, we need you to guess some more because Julia's got some words for you.
Are you ready?
Yes.
Awesome.
All right, Julia, I will start the timer when you start talking.
Okay, this is what happens when you heat up water and it bubbles a lot.
Boils.
Great job.
Okay, this is a utensil you use to eat spaghetti or just about anything.
Is it a fork?
A fork.
You got it.
And this is the word for the sound it makes when you eat a bunch of spaghetti or like any noodle, especially if it has like broth.
Slurp.
Oh, yeah.
Well done.
And with time to spare.
You guys have game show contestant in your future, I can tell.
All right.
Incredible work.
But only one of them can get a point.
So, Madalena, it's up to you.
Who did it faster?
Who made you laugh?
Who made you think?
Who did you feel a connection with?
It's totally up to you.
So please award your point.
Have you made your decision?
Yes, I have.
Perfect.
Then it's time for our final round. the final six.
In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Julia, let's hear your six words for the splendor of spaghetti.
The six words I came up with, even though they were very hard to choose, are beloved reliable flexible versatile, affordable and twirlable.
Very nice.
Okay, Neva, it is your turn.
Give us six words that rave about ravioli.
You know, I don't even think I need six to make it happen.
I'm just going to say that infinite possibilities make ravioli unbeatable.
Very nice.
All right, Madalena.
This is a tough decision, but it's time to award a final point for this final six.
Have you made your decision?
Yes.
All right.
Tally up those points.
Are you ready to declare one dish the smash boom best?
Yes, I am.
Okay.
Drum roll, please.
And the winner is ravioli.
Yes.
I knew it.
I knew it.
There's never a doubt in my mind.
Oh, man.
Madalina, was there a moment that decided things for you?
It was tied up until the final six, but I just really liked that pun.
You know, I'm going to be honest, actually.
I had written down that you liked the pun and originally I was going to say something different for my final six.
But I heard your feedback, and I was like, well, we're going to go with it.
Yes.
Take note, future debaters.
Pay attention to your judge and their love of puns.
Excellent, excellent work, both of you.
It was close, as close can be.
Julia, I liked so many of your points today, and I love your approach to cooking.
It's so wholesome and the life analogy you made of how it's great to try and have the spaghetti etiquette of bending with life, that feels very zen.
I vibe with that really hard.
And again, I just have so much respect for people who can cook.
You guys are such artists.
Sometimes when I look at cooking, it feels like a chore.
But if you're a chef, you look at cooking and it feels like you know really those endless, infinite possibilities.
So thank you so much for debating with me.
This has been so much fun.
And maybe after I have my ravioli today, tomorrow, I will have to have pasta.
Neba, I love doing this debate with you.
I really appreciate your dedication to puns.
I understand that's what won the debate.
And you know what?
I respect it.
And I, too, love a pun.
So I'm glad that puns were celebrated today in addition to pasta.
And yeah, I appreciate everything you brought up about ravioli, because I love spaghetti and I also love ravioli.
I really love them both.
And I don't think there's any loser here today.
You can't go wrong when pasta is involved.
Well, that is it for today's debate battle.
Madalina crowned Ravioli the Smash Boom best, but what about you?
Head to smashboom.org and vote to tell us who you think won.
This episode was produced by me, Molly Bloom, and Mark Sanchez.
We had sound design by Mark Sanchez and Rachel Brees.
Mark also wrote our theme song.
Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman.
Neva, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
Oh, absolutely.
You know, thank you to all the millions no billions of women across history who've made delicious foods, including ravioli, and never before got.
Thank you.
So big, big thank you.
Thank you to Smash Boom Best for inviting me on here, to Julia and Madalina for helping make this such a fun episode.
And also to my friend, Kurt, who I made the ravioli soup with yesterday.
Very nice.
And how about you, Julia?
Any special shout outs?
Well, I was going to shout out my dog Winky, but Nita mentioned the billions of women throughout history who have cooked and sustained their families and friends.
So, you know, Winky is also really great.
But Winky also really loves pasta.
I also want to thank Smash Boom Bess for inviting me on and you, Molly for hosting, and Neba for being a great debate partner and Madalina for being an amazing judge.
It really felt very close there.
But yeah, this was just so fun to be a part of.
Awesome.
And Madalina, any special thanks or shout outs?
I would like to thank my parents, who taught me how to cook and make the most amazing food, and my brother for always hanging out with me.
And of course, everyone here today.
Thank you so much.
It was a great debate.
Well, before we go, let's check in and see who Gio thinks should win the orca whales versus humpback whales debate.
I think orcas are going to win because they're the apex predators of the sea.
We'll be back next week with a new Smash Boom Best episode, Moss vs. Moths.
Bye!
Bye, everyone.
Adios.
