Do you feel ready to talk about it now or do you want to?
No, that's okay.
Yeah.
It's like that, that if I was to, if I could do the show, then that proves that I'm worth something.
It's our summer series.
It continues.
Regular episodes will be back in February.
Got some absolute corkers coming up.
But in this summer series, we thought we would replay some of our favourite moments from our subscriber-only show, which we've been doing for a while now.
It's called A Little More Imperfects.
We do it fortnightly.
It's a bonus episode. that you can access through Apple Podcasts.
You can subscribe through that or through patreon.com.
And today's summer episode, we're actually looking back at two different things.
Yeah.
It's two for the price of... None.
None.
That is a bargain.
It's very, very good.
Yeah.
So yeah, the second one we'll get to a bit later, but it's basically a day where we just it was a normal day, and I happened to get some news while we're at lunch, which was about the TV show that I'd been working on for like two years, and And we just turned the microphones on and I just told you the news that I received.
And it was a lot more emotional than I was expecting.
But yeah, we'll play that a bit later.
But before that, Hugh, we're reflecting, aren't we?
Yeah.
We are.
We have in our A Little More Imperfects episode subscriber shows.
We have our reflection pond, and it's a wonder.
It's an actual pond, an actual pond that joins us.
It sounds like a person, but it joins us in the middle of the table and our subscribers will send in reflections inspired by past episodes.
So the reflections end up in the pond, and we pull them out of the pond and reflect together.
Yeah.
And the way that people send in these reflections is through our – we've got a weekly newsletter, which many of you might know.
Many of you might already subscribe to it.
It's free.
It's called My Perfect Email.
And every week, every Monday when that newsletter comes out, it's about that week's episode usually.
And there's a question that often – it's like a journaling question that you can answer and you can reflect, and you can write about.
And then a lot of people send them to us and we put them in the pond.
And then, every now and again, we'll pull out a reflection from the pond and rate it out on a little more imperfects.
Yeah.
A nice thing to think about this time of year when you're trying to set up your year and you have aspirational goals for the year.
That I think a deep reflective question to kick off your week is a really lovely thing to do.
Yeah.
And this one, Josh, that you read out from Inga, one of our star subscribers.
Yeah.
And so she sent in an incredible reflection which Josh, you read out, and it led to such an incredible chat between the three of us afterwards.
So we'll play the reflection and our chat now.
All right, Josh, do you want to reach into the pond and see which reflection comes out?
Yeah.
And it's being pulled out.
It's soaking wet.
It's a wet reflection.
They all are.
Okay.
Josh, what have we got?
This reflection.
I've actually read this one before, because it was featured in the My Imperfect Email.
Ah, the newsletter.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
So this is from Inga who is, she's in the Hall of Flame.
Big time.
Big time Hall of Famer.
Yeah, already.
She might be elevated to legend status at some point.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Might be.
Yep.
And the question.
I feel like we have to now do that, because if we don't do that now, then she's going to think we've had a meeting at some point and decided that you know how we thought about elevating Inga.
Let's not.
And just so everyone knows, we don't have those meetings.
Or a legend status.
No, it doesn't exist.
It doesn't exist.
Hugh's just absolutely stitched us up there.
Okay.
Who are you in your wildest dreams?
Describe the scene.
How do you feel?
Good question.
When I close my eyes after a long day, in my wildest dreams I see myself smiling without effort, free from petty irritations and accumulated resentment towards those I love.
I'm more fun, more relaxed.
I laugh out loud from the belly, not only during holidays, weekends away with friends and romantic getaways, but also on weekdays after school pickup.
I don't shout and I'm not as stubborn.
In my wildest dreams.
I know how to be a mum that doesn't doubt herself, how to parent without the inherited need to power over and then regret it every step of the way.
I imagine myself ditching the constant no that has made its way into my vocabulary and most of the answers I have for my children.
In my dreams I embrace.
Yes, despite the discomfort and difficulties it might bring.
I let go and let others take the lead.
I let outsourcing be the key and let pleasure lead.
In my wildest dreams, i'm more like the girl i used to be beautiful.
Gosh, that really is very, very good.
Yeah.
Are you fighting back tears?
Yeah, I am again.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah.
I find it really emotional to read that, because when I lie in bed at night often I'm getting better at this.
This is something I'm working really hard on and I'm going to see a psychologist to work on it, to help work on it.
But I lie in bed and I'm just full of regrets about losing my cool or the look on my child's face when I've unnecessarily said no to something when I could have, as she said, just sort of gone with yes and embraced a bit of discomfort.
But for some reason I've let stress and anger or a need to get out the door quickly.
For some reason, like I have to be, like it's going to be the end of the world if the kids aren't at um kinder by 8, 30 and i'm here by nine on the dot like i'm never here on nine of the dot anyway.
But this fear of like i can't let that happen.
So i lose it at my child to put their pants on or whatever it is, as opposed to just going with it a little bit more and slowing down and just giving them what they need.
I'll lie in bed and think like how did you turn into this person?
Like where did this you used to?
There are elements of you and especially the way she talks about the in her case like the girl she used to be, but the child we all were.
I just envy that freedom and carefree approach to life that I could do with a lot more of.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I felt very similar.
I was literally last night lying in bed thinking because I was – Penny was out last night, so I had the three of them and I was – I kept saying I was trying so hard to create this very fun night full of activities and now we're just yelling at each other, fight the three of them.
At one point all three of them were fighting.
I couldn't tell who was fighting who.
I couldn't tell who was on whose team.
It was so –
I told myself a thousand times, no matter what happens, that I'm going to be so calm and I'm just going to like smile and just gently guide them in the right direction.
Whatever that, you know, whatever is required.
And after about an hour of it, I just I've done.
I felt my only option was to yell louder than the three of them combined.
So I just yelled at them so loud and I was lying in bed just going.
I've never yelled at anyone in my entire life and I'm yelling at the people that I love most.
It's an awful feeling.
Because I feel like saying to them, guys, just so you know, like, this is not me.
You're making me do, you made me do that.
This is really not who I am.
I promise.
You guys probably think I'm an angry person.
I promise I'm not.
Yeah.
It's, um, so I, yeah, I totally, it's a beautiful reflection.
Yeah.
You know that um, I don't know if the lyric quite works, but you know that, Paul Simon, a good day hasn't gotten no rain.
I didn't think of things that could have been.
Yes.
Yes.
I think like that now when I get in not exactly that, but when I get into bed if I can lie there and think I wasn't, like I didn't lose it today or I didn't, I don't regret it.
That's a good day.
That's a really good day.
If I didn't, if I was able to, like this morning, I should have been better.
I, there was a, trying to get a jumper on my toddler, three year old.
I knew at the time, don't force it on him.
Just like take a couple more minutes.
But I just couldn't.
I couldn't help myself but get frustrated and like, literally force a jumper on top of this kid and And I'm like, what is that?
Was an opportunity to bond with the kid, not to like to come up with some other way and bond rather than like force my day on him.
So now tonight will be a regret night and hopefully tomorrow's not.
Can you like do like repair stuff tonight that makes you feel like, because of what happened this morning, you had really quality time tonight.
Maybe
I don't know.
Yeah, I think if I realise during the day I will do that and I will.
And I'm like, thanks to some of the stuff I've learnt on this show, I make repair work a massive priority.
Like I don't think I ever lose it.
In a way, I regret and don't go back and profusely apologise, because I know that that's the really important bit.
So I am doing that but, God, it would be good not to have to do that in the first place.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Like a lot of parents listening to that.
Just, I mean, I know a couple of parents who maybe wouldn't, but I think most people I know would be very familiar with that feeling.
Yeah.
It's like Just that I'm able to find a part of myself that is calm enough in this moment to be what I consider to be like the adult in the room.
I don't know if this is right, but the way I feel about it, when I know exactly what you mean, that expression before and I think it too like that you're making me into this thing, but i also think like that's me giving in to no longer being the adult yes, because i'm like at the end of the day, i'm like you're a three-year-old.
You need me to be like reliable and and calm and like a consistent presence, and in my like dream of, as my psychologist is now telling me, she's like i think you're trying to be the perfect dad and it's impossible and But the perfect dad would be like always, this kind of like never overcome by their emotions and never sucked into losing control.
Basically,
Which is not possible.
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know if there's ever a reason for anger, but I think being like very firm with like boundaries and direction and holding really strong boundaries with your kid is a very important part of parenting.
But yeah, it's when you lose control of your emotions and feel this anger.
That is when I lie in bed regretting it.
Yeah.
Which I think reflecting on three kids now who have all reached the age three.
It's a big part of parenting a three-year-old.
I think it might be.
That's what a lot of people are telling me.
It's just a three-year-old.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, amazing reflection from our future legend, Inga.
If Ron and Josh approve, of course.
It's handy that you're not putting like a time limit on when that legendary status will be brought in, because the future could be like 20 years.
Yeah, every 20 years we assess all the people and see who can be legends.
We induct one person every 20 years.
Yeah, could be Inga.
Could be.
Yeah, I was very moved by that reflection, as you've just heard.
But it's really interesting hearing it back.
After God.
It's been probably six or seven months since that episode.
And I noticed something in myself there that is very typical of me, of continuing to give myself a bit of a hard time about everything.
And I talk in that reflection about how my psychologist had identified that I'm trying to be the perfect parent a lot of the time.
And I think something that I haven't recognized in that, that I didn't recognize in that reflection, is to be the kind of parent I want to be, which is sort of flexible like, rather than meeting a parenting challenge by getting angry, I would rather be sort of flexible and funny and be able to turn that situation into an opportunity for say, connection rather than anger.
That requires a lot of energy and requires a lot of mental acuity and flexibility.
And I think just the realistic fact about parenting is sometimes you've had four hours sleep and you just don't have the mental energy to actually be able to do it.
So then to be harsh on myself for not having that...
Seems unnecessary.
I don't think getting angry is the right response either.
But I think I just need to lower my expectations of what I'm capable of on those days.
And because I think the anger comes from not just the situation but also the judgment on yourself for not being able to control the situation.
So I think it's just something that I have been thinking about, but listening to that clip really makes it quite clear that I need to just lower the expectations of what I'm capable of depending and go.
You slept for like right now.
I slept for about five and a half hours last night.
And so if I get home tonight and the kids are, for whatever reason, being challenging, I don't have to get angry, but I also don't have to fix the situation like a parenting genius.
I can just sort of sit in it.
Lie down on the floor.
Yeah, just give up.
No, just have a more realistic expectation for what I'm capable of and do the best I can in this situation, and that's okay.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's really good.
Yeah.
You agree?
Yeah.
Definitely.
Yeah, yeah.
But anyway.
Well, thanks, Josh, and thank you, Inga.
Yes.
What a legend.
So we have another.
As I said earlier, we've got another bit to play which is a little bit I mean it's not super, super heavy but it's sort of an emotional moment that I experienced and we had on a little more Imperfects last year.
Hugh, as people know, often strange things happen to you in life and this could be a good moment to bring one of those out of the back pocket to give us just a touch of the giggles before.
Well, I do get to share these stories a lot on- On A Little More Imperfects.
Yeah.
And so it sort of works to be able to share one now.
But as everyone definitely knows, I am a runner, more specifically a sprinter.
And part of sprint training is that you do a lot of block work.
So the blocks are the things that you see- You push off.
Yeah, that you start in.
And they're quite a complicated technical thing.
So you do a lot of practice with them.
And I've noticed that there's a lot of national sprinters who sprint at the same track as me.
I've noticed that they have got this app and they have speakers next to the blocks and you press play and there's a starter.
So you can hear the starter saying, on your marks, set.
And then there's a – but I'd found one.
But every single time it's exactly the same weight between set and go.
And that's not realistic.
Yeah, so you can predict it and it's not – it's never –
Oh, so at a real starting thing, the time is not always the same.
Yeah.
They'll say on your marks, and it can take a long time for them to get into the marks.
And they'll say set.
And from that point on, it's just whenever the starter decides to do it.
It's up to the starter.
Yeah.
Yeah, but it's also, that's deliberate because they don't want people ever anticipating the gun.
So you can get a false start.
If you start, even if you leave the blocks 02 of a second after the gun goes, that's a false start because they reckon you've predicted it.
So like, anyway, this is, we'll probably cut that bit out.
That's interesting.
I've had to keep it in.
And so I got this app, but it was the same time and it wasn't doing anything.
So I was like, I've got to find this app, what are they using?
And so I don't know what happened, but all of a sudden I had this to be very clear I don't know this happened, but I found this.
I was like I've got this app here, good.
I think that's the one they're using, I'm not really sure.
Had it sitting on my phone, got my Bluetooth speakers out at the track.
There's a lot of people around.
It's a little bit.
I don't like it, because a lot of people watch you when you do this, because it's a bit different and you have it quite loud so everyone can hear your Bluetooth speaker.
Yeah, a lot of you play it.
And so I got down into the blocks and then I went, oh, I haven't pressed the app thing.
And I went over to my phone.
It's like, yeah, that's the app there.
And I had all these different options, like different men's names.
I was like, oh, I guess they're the different starters you can get.
Different voices.
We did have different ones.
I don't quite get that, but that's okay.
And the first one said slow and relaxed.
I was like, well, they're giving me a clue to how long.
They're giving me a clue.
They're giving me a clue that's going to be... That's a bit annoying.
I want clues to what type.
Just asking me.
Yeah, that's fine.
I'll just do the first one.
And so I press it.
I get into the blocks.
And all of a sudden, through the Bluetooth speaker, I hear, oh, God.
I got sex.
And I went, what?
And everyone was going, what the fuck?
And I ran over to my phone.
And it was this app and it was men making sex noises.
It's a different sort of pistol, isn't it?
And as I'm doing it, like you can just hear, oh, and I was like, oh my God.
Hang on.
So what was the, do you remember what the app was called that you were supposed to download?
No, I don't.
It's because it happened a while ago between downloading and actually doing it.
I remember saying to everyone, what's the app that you get?
Yeah.
Actually, now I say maybe that was him stitching it up.
So it's just audio of men making sexual noises.
Yeah.
Okay.
Who knows why you'd need that.
Yeah.
What's the link?
Put it in the show notes.
Oh, God, that is.
That was awful.
So obviously you just turned it off and went to the bathroom.
And deleted the app very quickly.
Then delete it.
If you're going to start, may as well finish.
You paid for the subscription.
Okay.
Okay, well, that's good.
Classic Hugh.
Okay, so to part two of this summer bonus episode.
So for people who've been listening for a while, you'll know that I also work in television.
I've been trying to make my own TV show for a long, long time.
And for the last couple of years, I have been developing my own show with a few other people.
And so what you'll hear is us having that initial chat, and then you'll hear us reacting to that a week later.
So there's a bit of a chat within a chat within a chat.
Inception.
Yeah.
So, yeah, so this was familiar in the ear on a little more Imperfects.
So I just I wanted to just have a quick chat, because I don't even really know why I'm talking about this.
Well, I guess I do know why, but so just, and I think the only reason I am is because I've only just found this out and I just thought well, I'll just talk about it because I just fortuitously happened to not fortuitous, but I just happened to find out while we were just at lunch.
We were just having lunch, having a great lunch.
And I got a message telling me that.
So you guys know that my I've been working on this TV show for, like it feels like 25 years, but for years and years been developing it with the ABC and and this is like a show that I've been trying to get my TV show.
For anyone who's been listening to the podcast for a long time knows that I've always dreamed of my own TV show.
Anyway, I've just found out that it's not happening and it's like they're basically passing on it, which I'm actually weirdly okay about, but it's just a very – it feels like a weirdly –.
I've got like the kind of butterflies and I feel like nervous talking about it.
Not nervous talking about it, but I just feel I guess like obviously emotional about it a little bit.
Not to the extent where I'm devastated.
I mean to be honest, my first emotion when I saw it, saw the message, was kind of relief in a weird way.
Oh, my God.
That's a real...
Yeah, you've been working on this for a long time.
I've been working on it for a long time.
It was like a super personal show.
That was really a lot of.
It was about a period of time in my life where Jam and I went through a really bad time.
So it was, it was a comedy, but it was sort of about that based on, on us really.
And it's just, it's been, it's been, like you know, and what we do is like not a it's not hard work necessarily, but for me, like writing a show and trying to get it right and trying to kind of access all the
I don't know, feelings and emotions and trying to retell stories, trying to do justice to it.
Anyway, whatever.
I'm not trying to say it's like the hardest work in the world, but yeah, it's really, I don't know.
I don't really know.
I don't really have anything to necessarily say.
I just thought, well, we just happened to be here.
We just happened to be making, doing episodes today.
I just thought I'd just... let everyone know that yeah the show's not happening so yeah i'm really sorry no that's yeah that's all right it's it's it's fine um but it must feel like what do you like apart from relief there must be a i mean something else i mean if i really i'm sure i'll it'll take me longer to kind of i guess like process it because ultimately Ultimately, it's a rejection.
And so I mean it's kind of funny, because what I've been working on with my new therapist recently is this sort of thing that I never really realized it until just recently when I was in a session with him, but quite a pattern that I've kind of been repeating.
I think probably my whole life is, and I'm kind of like reluctant to talk about it too much because I haven't quite figured out you know, gotten to the end of this therapy work yet.
Um, but I think a pattern that repeats itself a lot is that I I'm very reluctant to uh, like cheat, like go for something, because it's like well, if I go for something then I can be rejected.
And so and I think that goes for it's always gone for like relationships, like having the courage to ask someone out, or or even like having the courage to suggest that I should do a TV show.
I think I've always like sort of waited for the opportunities to come to me.
And so then, if it doesn't work out which my own, because of my own self-belief issues, I assume it won't work out.
So then it's like, oh, well, I won't go for it because then I can't, my feelings can't be hurt.
So, and it was funny, like when I was in this talking to the therapist, I just was thinking about this.
And as you guys know, like my favorite movie is Back to the Future.
And I realized it was like well God, I feel like my whole life since watching that movie.
The first time I've like dreamed of being Marty, but I've never considered the fact that I'm actually George, his dad.
Because George McFly has like this line in it, which is like I just don't think I could take that sort of rejection.
And so he never like puts himself out there.
He never like aims for anything big, because he doesn't, because the thought of being rejected is too painful.
So yeah, I think like, how do I feel now?
I feel rejected.
And I think even though I do feel a bit of relief because it's been really challenging and I guess now I don't have to be in that discomfort anymore and I don't have to try and make this impossible thing in my mind impossible thing work
I think there is a bit of like a bit of sadness that I can't help, at this stage at least, but take it as proof that I can't do it.
I can't do the TV show.
And yeah, I think I've changed a lot over the years and the things that I really really want have changed.
But it's just happened today.
So, right in this moment, it just feels like well, it's this.
Idea of doing my own TV show has been this thing I've held aloft as this ultimate act of expression, this really this huge achievement that only some people are able to do and only some people get the opportunity to do.
For some people, it's like winning a gold medal at the Olympics.
For some people, it's making a TV show.
For some people, it's having kids.
It's different for everyone.
For me, it's always been this, and that has slightly evolved in the last couple of years.
I think, maybe if I without trying to psychoanalyze myself too much, but it's almost like I feel like a like a this like a like, a like, a like.
The kid version of me has just been rejected.
Like the teenage version of me who's dreamed of doing this as, and if I could do it and if I could get my own show, then it kind of like proves that.
Um, you know, like I'm.
Do you feel ready to talk about it now or do you want to?
No, it's okay.
Yeah, it's like that.
If I could do the show, then that proves that I'm.
You know, worthy is the wrong word, but I'm worth something.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm, you know, I'm proving myself.
Yeah.
And that's not to take away.
Like all the other, I've done lots of great things and I know I have and I'm very proud of this podcast and everything other things I've done.
But that particular thing, it's yeah, it's always been like this, it's like the great trophy, you know.
Yeah.
And so it just feels like, and this is like, it's no one's fault, but, and it's not even my fault.
It's just like I, totally.
I'm so conscious of the fact that these opportunities they happen or they don't happen for so many other reasons other than the fact that I'm good enough or anyone's good enough.
Like that's.
I know that logically, that the reason they don't want to do the show is not because I can't do it.
It's because, for whatever other myriad of reasons they have, but I can't help but take it as as proof that I can't do it.
I wasn't able, I wasn't good enough to do it.
That's good.
That's difficult.
It has been the thing for you for a long time.
The TV show.
Yeah.
Um, So yeah anyway, the only reason I wanted to talk about it is I thought well, we may as well, because I'm here.
And I was like well, I was literally.
I found out at lunch and I thought well, I'll just come back and I'll tell you all just as like.
Oh, I just found out.
And then I thought, well, let's fucking turn the microphones on.
Content, baby.
Fingers crossed I cry.
When during lunch did you find out?
Because you had some incredible ideas in that meeting we just had.
Well, sort of near the end but, like I said, like my first, it's funny, you know how.
Like Apple, like the Apple, the Siri.
It summarizes the message.
So obviously, Apple intelligence has no sensitivity to.
And so literally, like Laura, who's the Laura Waters the producer, she's written me this incredibly beautiful long message.
But Siri, she tried to call me and she had.
She said I'll just let you know, just so you know.
And she just sent, and then she sent me this really lovely message, long message.
And then Siri, it just said like, um, show not proceeding, call you later.
And so I've just glanced down to my phone and saw that.
I was like, what?
Surely that, what?
Because I knew that she was talking to them today, but I didn't know that it was going to be like a definitive yes or no situation.
And so it's brutal.
It's brutal.
And I'm honestly not trying to like garner any sympathy or anything.
It was more just meant to be like.
Well, There'd be a handful of people who have been listening for such a long time and will know the.
We've been doing this for six years and I spoke about this in the first year.
And I've been dreaming of it and sort of... And doing it.
You've been doing a lot of work.
A lot of work, yeah.
But doing it in one way or another or working towards it for genuinely like 20 years more.
So yeah, and not to say there won't be other opportunities that hopefully there will be, but it's never gone as far as this one.
So this felt like it kind of, in many ways, without being like poor me, it feels like well, this was the chance.
This was the opportunity.
And yeah, and it's not happening now.
It's one of the worst feelings you can have.
I think everyone listening would know the rejection of something you care about like something you really want, something you really care about.
And it's just that, yeah, I know exactly how you feel and it's awful.
Yeah.
Anyway well, I'm just really glad I'm here with you guys when I found out because I feel very, very good about everything we do together and that yeah, I'm very lucky because of that
From a selfish point of view, we get 100% of your creative brain.
It's a big win for us.
It's actually good news for us.
Yeah, because I see a bridge scheduling in shitloads of stuff.
Pen's just broken.
It was opened up.
Anyway, well, thanks, guys.
That's really all I needed to say.
Okay.
Well, yeah, we love you and we think you're brilliant.
And if we were in charge of TV shows, you'd be the only one with a TV show in Australia.
Yeah, thanks.
Gosh, that is...
That's exactly.
I've thought about that because we had no idea you were going to turn the mics on and just do that.
So it completely came out of the blue.
And I've thought about it so much in the past.
How are you now?
How do you feel now?
And how does it feel listening to that, first of all?
Well, I listened to it.
I listened back to it last night just to make sure it was actually worth playing in this episode and bringing it up.
Because when we recorded it, I didn't actually even really know what we'd do with it.
I didn't necessarily talk about it, thinking that we'd put it in the podcast or the Patreon or anything.
But when I listened back to it last night, yeah, it was...
I was surprised how emotional it was to listen back to it.
Because, you know, obviously I don't like cry.
Not that I was like bawling, but I don't cry that much in life at all.
And definitely not on the podcast.
I think I've only done it maybe once or twice.
And yeah, it was just hard.
Yeah, it was hard to listen back to.
But also...
I'm glad we recorded it, because I'm just glad that moment was documented, even if it was just for me, because it does feel like quite a significant thing for me, not in terms of the rest of the world, but it does feel like a significant thing for me because I can't imagine myself going through that process of pitching a show to a traditional network.
And The world and the media world has changed so much since I was a teenager wanting a TV show to now.
Whereas when I was a teenager wanting a TV show, that was the only game in town.
And now there's obviously plenty of other pathways.
So the whole process of what it takes to get a TV show up.
It can be great but in many ways, compared to the autonomy that we have to put out anything on YouTube or podcasts or whatever, it feels kind of archaic and sort of old-fashioned or something.
But it's a necessary part of the process to get to make a big TV show.
So anyway, I...
Yeah, I feel pretty good about it now and I'm excited about other ideas and other things I can do that I can actually control and not just sort of wait for the permission of other people to tell me I can do it or not.
So you've gotten to a point where you're sort of excited about what could come next?
Yeah, definitely.
Awesome.
Definitely.
Like I'm so excited because there was a part of me that was excited about doing the show, but then there was also another part of me that was like nervous about doing the show at the same time as this podcast and the live tour and whatever else we decide to do.
So the fact that that's like taken out of the equation means that I can kind of like have a better idea of what I can plan for and what we can do.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it's the end of an era, but it feels, you know, it... Yeah.
I also just wanted to also just point out the fact that I don't want anyone I don't think it comes across in that at all, but I don't want anyone to think that I feel hardly done by or anything by the ABC or by anyone there.
They were great actually, because I know a lot of people when they go through this process, they kind of whinge about being hardly done by and how it was unfair and that was absolutely not the case.
I genuinely completely understand why they would not want to make it, because it wasn't a conventional show.
It would have been a risk.
So I really do understand.
But yeah, it is what it is.
Yeah, yeah.
That's heartbreaking to hear again.
It was, as Hugh said, because we didn't know it was coming.
I genuinely thought when you started talking, you were going to tell us it was going ahead.
I realised when I listened back to it, that's what it would have sounded like.
Yeah, and I was ready to go bananas.
Yeah, pop the champagne.
Yeah, yeah.
And so it was devastating to Not as devastating as it was for you, obviously but to feel this momentary thought of oh my God, it's happening to that rug being pulled out.
But listening to it back, I...
Two things.
I mean, there's so much in there that I'd love to ask you about, but two things jumped out at me.
One is that I think you're being very harsh on yourself in your back to the future analogy.
I think it's a good analogy and it's a good line, but I don't think it's binary.
Like you don't have to be one or the other.
No, that's true.
I think it's more just that I didn't realize how much of George was in me.
How much of that sense of like.
I don't want to go for the thing because I don't think I could take that sort of rejection.
That definitely is...
Yeah, I'm not completely George and I'm certainly not completely Marty.
I'm definitely, but I think I'm more George than Marty McFly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah.
The other thing I wanted to ask you is that, like in your episode that we did you so beautifully talked about, and it's always stuck with me.
Is this in season one?
Yeah sorry, season one, where you had that moment of realisation of like I think you described it as winning the award like a fictional award for best comedian in the world.
Would that make you feel...?
Yeah, it was when I was sort of trying to.
It's when I had like this epiphany where I was trying to imagine if I got everything I ever dreamed of, would it make me happy or how would it feel.
And I kind of realised, I imagined, visualised myself being handed like the Emmy for best comedy and being on the front page of every magazine and literally, literally getting everything I've ever dreamed for.
And I had a very distinct feeling of like, oh, this doesn't, I don't feel anything.
Like it doesn't matter.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, yeah.
So it was that it didn't matter, not that it wouldn't make you.
Both.
Both.
Yeah.
Both, yeah.
I knew it wouldn't make me happy because it's sort of like, okay, well, I've got that.
They've said I'm the funniest man in the world.
This fictional board of directors of comedy.
But yeah, it became instantly apparent to me that it's like, oh, well, that...
I'm not happier now.
It's cool and I'm proud of myself and I'll get a bit of attention and that's pretty cool and I'll get the juice that you get from that sort of thing.
But it doesn't change anything in my life.
Yeah, because it was just.
It's heartbreaking to hear because I think the bit that certainly you seem to be quite emotional about was the worthiness idea and certainly as a teenager, and I just wondered if you had given it, thought about how your worthiness like, how they're quite similar, this idea of, like getting the TV show, and would that make you worthy.
Yeah, I think it's probably one of the biggest things I reckon I'm trying to grapple with is I'm sort of realising now that so much of my self-worth is attached to my achievements, or I have this fear that if I stopped,
Achieving things and I think I mentioned this on an episode.
I have this great fear that if I stopped achieving things and creating work that people liked, that people would want to spend time with me less or people wouldn't like me as much.
And so that's definitely even though I know that's technically not true, I feel that it is, if that makes sense.
Like I feel that the reason people want to hang out with me or people invite me to things is because you know I've got a successful podcast, or you know I've made a video or been on a show, that whatever.
Like that is, I worry that if all that went away, then people wouldn't, like me or respect me as much it feels like one of those um i think i think you've changed for van kyle those wonky bricks yeah it feels like a wonky brick that was put in there at one point yes it is definitely a wonky brick yeah um but and i'm yeah not for me to psychoanalyze or for us to write it down now but i just think it's really interesting that um Yeah, because it's so clear objectively to everyone else how incredible you are and how much worth you have regardless of any work you do.
It probably didn't need to be said, but just to put it out there.
Yeah, well, it is nice to hear it, but...
And I would say the same to anyone.
Yeah.
And it makes sense.
Like I get it.
Like I know because, yeah, people, of course, people are so much more than the things they do.
But yeah, for whatever reason, that belief is in me.
It's a tough one to shake.
The other thing that just really dawned on me just listening back to it was that I never actually thought it wouldn't happen.
Not for a second did I feel like it wasn't going to happen.
Yeah, you were always very confident that it was going to happen.
Well, I still don't understand why it wouldn't, but I just always thought it would.
And then I guess you obviously had to put yourself to a certain extent in that headspace, because to write it properly, to invest in it properly emotionally and creatively, you kind of have to believe in what you're doing.
So that's the other thing that just I just realized listening back to is how, like you're very circumspect about it all and you're very you have such a good attitude towards it, but just acknowledging how much it must have hurt as well, I guess, like there are probably points in the last few weeks which really, really hurt, and I can totally understand that.
Hmm Yeah, to be honest, it kind of feels like, you know, when you just want to get invited to the party so you can say no.
So, you know, it's like you just want to be invited and know that you're on the list.
Yeah.
And then go like, you don't want to go to the party necessarily, but you also want to be invited.
Yeah.
I think it's sort of a little bit like that.
It's like I don't actually feel sad that I'm not making it, as much as I feel sad that I have been uninvited.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
That hurts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, thanks for being so generous in sharing that initial response, because it was obviously an uneasy thing to do.
No.
So yeah, you probably heard that Hugh's voice sounded a little bit different because you were interstate when we recorded that.
I was going to say, what on earth happened there?
But yeah, so that was the great thing.
One of the reasons I love A Little More Imperfect because I love this extra episode and this extra show that we have is that it was so nice to be able to just turn the mics on and be able to literally react to, to this really significant thing that happened to me, and to just record it.
And we didn't necessarily know what we'd do with it.
But then we have this show that we can just put these bits in that it's such a great opportunity.
And I'm really looking forward to this year because I feel like we've done it for a year now, A Little More Imperfects.
I feel like this is like going to be a really fun year on A Little More Imperfects.
I'm really excited.
Yeah, there's going to be a lot more Dr M.
We'll have some special guests, I think as well, throughout the year.
Yeah, it's a pretty big, should it be called a lot more imperfects?
Well, maybe it will end up being that, but it's a little more Imperfects and you can subscribe on Patreon.
So it's at patreon.com or download the Patreon app.
Just search for the Imperfects.
Or you can just, if you just want the fortnightly episodes, the bonus episodes, you can subscribe on the Apple Podcasts app as well.
God, how good summer.
It sure is.
And we're not just doing a little more Imperfects this year.
We're going to have a full season as normal with some incredible guests lined up.
We've got a huge one to start the year next week.
I'm really excited and just teasing.
I'm not going to give away who it is, but I was pretty excited to make it.
And this person.
This won't give it away, but this person was everything you would hope they'd be, and more.
Yeah.
Like as in the experience of meeting them and hanging out with them afterwards.
Yeah.
She was great.
So that might have given it away.
But I don't think it has.
So we will see you next week for a brand new season, a new year, the same us, more imperfect than ever.
Get that sand in your toes and that sunscreen on your nose.
I just thought of that.
That's actually great.
That's actually great.
I know.
Let's call the patent office.
Yeah.
Is there a better smell than sunscreen?
Yeah.
It always means you can have a good... Oh, there is?
Yeah, there's heaps more.
But I know what you mean.
Yeah.
We'll see you next week.
See you.
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