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Hi, everybody.
It's Chuck here on Select Saturday.
Hopefully, this one is coming out in the summertime, like I think I timed it out to.
But this one goes back to July 18th, 2017.
It's on your skin and what happens when you go outside.
It's called Sunburn, Sun Tans, and Sunscreen.
Thanks for watching.
Please do enjoy.
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio.
Hey, welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh Clark.
There's Charles DeVie Chuck Bright.
There's Jerry.
There's Steffie Should Know.
Summer, Sunburn edition.
You're tan.
Well, I did think it was kind of funny.
I probably have more sun on my face than I've had in years.
Yes.
Very easily, I would say.
And I've been in the sun a lot more lately, but I have been applying sunscreen.
But as you will see, very shortly, I haven't been the best at reapplying it.
No, that's what I'm guilty of too.
And so I end up getting a tan and then of course like a dummy.
I'm like, hey, tan's look pretty good.
I look foxy.
People look good with a little bit of a tan, which is just how you fall into that trap
of doing what's ultimately very bad for your skin.
Sure.
Next up, Ask Gotts, going down the George Hamilton route.
But the rest of my body, well, my lower arm, my lower arm, my face is tan.
Do you have like milk bottle calves?
Tell me you do.
Everything else is white.
Take off your pants.
Well, there are already off.
Okay.
As always, as pretty as you should.
Well, your pants really are off.
Jerry, did you know Chuck's pants are off?
She's known for nine years.
Remember the t-shirt that listener made his pants off, Mike's on.
Yep.
Or Mike's on pants off.
I can't remember the order that we do it.
A wax on, wax off, I think.
This one's longer overdue though, I think, and file it under our general public service
casts.
Yeah.
There's a lot of info that's floating around that is wrong.
Yeah.
Starting with the idea that tans are healthy or even protective.
Yeah.
Well, we'll go through all these and bust some myths, but tanning bed companies saying like,
oh, you need that vitamin D.
Yeah.
No.
Or, hey, that based hand, that will help you not burn.
Right.
We'll go through all this.
We're going to, but let's start.
Let's start where everything starts.
Chuck, let's start with the sun.
No.
All right.
Sorry.
So the sun is streaming down.
You're familiar with the sun.
Our star closes star.
Sure.
Provides light heat, that kind of stuff.
Oh, it's also bearing down on us.
Yeah.
Deadly radiation.
Trying to kill us all the time.
Yep.
Right.
And there's three types.
Well, there's three kinds of energy that the sun shoots at us.
There's infrared heat.
There's visible light.
Mm-hmm.
And then there's ultraviolet light.
The scary one.
Ultraviolet radiation, right?
And then you can break down ultraviolet radiation into three more components.
UVA.
UVB.
Ooh.
And UVC.
Eh.
Actually, if we didn't have our atmosphere, we'd all be dead right now just because of UVC.
It's extremely deadly.
But we do.
So that's all right.
Right.
If you're an astronaut, you got to worry about UVC.
Right.
But those of us here on Earth, we only have to worry about UVA and UVB.
And for decades, ever since we started thinking about protecting ourselves from the sun, we've
basically been focused on UVB.
Yeah.
UVB is what will sun burn you.
Right.
Which is why everybody wants to protect themselves from it.
But it turns out as we'll see, UVA is not, it's even worse than UVB.
It is no slouch.
No, it really isn't.
But those are the three kinds.
And when sunlight comes here on Earth, then even when it doesn't, if it's reflected on
a cloudy day or through fog or something like that, it'll be fooled.
No.
Because UVA is still getting through.
And as you'll see, you need to protect yourself.
As a matter of fact, as we will see, some people recommend that you use sunscreen all over
your body, everyday indoors and out.
Well, if you do that, you will probably never get skin cancer.
That's right.
Unless it's genetic.
Yeah.
But you're definitely helping yourself out.
Right.
So you were talking about that sunlight beaming down in a fog and cloud covering all that
stuff.
You probably, if you've ever been snow skiing, I got sunburned because on a sunny day,
that snow will reflect about 90% of UV light.
Yeah.
So you get the sun coming down on you.
And then you're also getting a second dose of it reflected from the snow.
At a 90% rate.
Right.
If you're at the beach and you wonder why you might burn a little more at the beach, it's
because that sand does the same thing to a rate of about 20%.
Yep.
Where you will not get sunburned, they say, isn't it greenhouse?
Yeah.
Did you know that?
Didn't know that.
You'll sweat the death.
Sure.
And you can still get tan, but you won't burn.
Yeah.
Apparently glass is a substance that absorbs UV radiation.
This is a big thing that I realized, Chuck, and I just kind of touched upon it.
For my entire life, I thought that sunburn was like a tan gone too far or conversely that
you got sunburned and then you got tanned as a result of sunburn and then you were fine.
Oh, yeah.
Like the people that are like, oh, I always burn on day one and then it turns into a tan.
Right.
And then I keep that for the summer and I don't even need sunblock after that.
Right.
No.
Actually, a sun tan and a sunburn are two different things.
Yeah.
And they're the result of two different types of UV radiation.
Yeah.
The people that say that stuff are completely talking of their buttholes.
Right.
Don't listen to them.
Listen to us instead.
Yeah.
Because there's actual signs behind it.
The UVB is what causes sunburns.
UVA rays are different and they are what ultimately, I think it's a deeper penetration.
They will ultimately cause like wrinkly skin and like internal collagen damage and stuff
like that.
Right.
So UVA for aging, UVB for burning.
Right.
Yes. And combined with both, you look like that lady and there's something about Mary
that made out with the dog.
Yeah.
So it's not like we're just completely at the mercy of the sun, right?
We have natural reactions to sunlight that are kind of protective measures, but really
more than anything, we're finding nowadays that there are huge red flags that are meant
to say like get out of the sun, you're being internally damaged on a molecular level right
now.
Yeah.
Hence, you're sunburned.
But it turns out that a tan is the same thing basically.
It's a big red flag or a big brown flag that says you're undergoing genetic damage currently.
You may want to get out of the sun, not go lay by the pools some more.
You got your tan, you're fine.
Yeah, when you're getting that tan, what that is is a pigment called melanin and it is
produced in reaction to that, I guess, UVB.
UVA.
UVA.
UVA.
Yeah.
I'm going to get this.
UVA for aging.
UV for burning.
Right.
I should remember that.
Yeah, but it's tough to separate the burn from the tan and think that there are two different
things after thinking that they're related to all your life, you know?
Well, it's why tanning beds use mainly UVA light because they don't want you to sunburn
when you go to the tanning salon because then you'll be like, wait a minute, that's not
how it's supposed to work.
Right.
And you don't get tan from UVB, so why even in included anyway if you don't have to?
Well, yeah.
And here's the deal though.
I guess I might as well go ahead and let the cat out of the bag with the tanning beds.
One of the things, one of the bogus things that they will tell you is like, no, your body
needs vitamin D.
And so go to the tanning bed because it's safer than being in the sun.
100% BS.
You get vitamin D from UVB, not UVA.
Right.
And tanning beds use UVA to get you tan.
Oh, is that right?
So that's completely bogus to begin with.
One recent estimate suggested indoor tanning caused about 420,000 cases of skin cancer in
the United States every year.
Oh my God.
About double the number of lung cancer linked to smoking.
Wow.
And 12 states at this point have outlawed tanning beds for miners under 18 years old.
Yeah, that seems smart.
I got one more stat for you.
Okay.
People who use tanning beds for the first time before the age of 30, presuming they will,
you know, it's not a one off, have a 75% increased risk in developing melanoma.
Wow.
They don't go to tanning beds, people.
No, that's a great advice, Chuck.
Man, I mean, and a lot of people also think like melanoma, nothing you just cut it out.
It's fine.
Actually melanoma can spread can metastasize really quickly.
And it is a very dangerous form of cancer.
So don't take that lightly at all.
Yeah.
Plus, if you're going to a tanning bed, you're probably doing it for your looks.
Have a little foresight because what you're doing is subjecting your body to advanced,
hyper aging.
You're going to age prematurely from going to a tanning bed.
And that whole, like, you know, people will say, I don't care.
I'm young.
I want to look tan and look good.
That's why we have nanny states to choose for you because you're too stupid to choose
for yourself.
Was that juggie?
No.
We're trying to help people.
I mean, this is, it's a danger.
So the guy with a freshly tanned face.
Let's, let's go back to the skin and what the skin's doing.
Okay.
All right.
Should we take a break first?
Or we?
Yeah.
All right.
Let's take a little break.
Okay.
Get into the skin.
Okay.
You know, friends, just recently, I think a lot of you know that we lost our old, wonderful
dog, Charlie, that we rescued off the streets.
And it wasn't too long after that we went out and adopted our new little trouble making
puppy Gibson.
But regardless of fact that he's a handful, that adopted puppy has added so much joy to
our lives.
Well, we are here to talk to you about pedigree.
Yeah, there's a lot to talk about with pedigree, Chuck.
Let's start with the pedigree pouches wet food.
It's a hundred percent complete imbalance for adult dogs, which is important.
And by combining wet and dry dog food, you're adding nourishment, variety, and not to mention
you're stimulating your dog's appetite.
That's right.
It's made with real meat or poultry, no artificial flavors and no sugar added.
You should also mention pedigree dentistics, the oral care treats, the unique X-shaped,
clean teeth and fresh and spreath, and they are clinically proven to reduce plaque and
charter buildup also with no added sugar or fillers.
I have to say I know a dog or two who could use fresher breath.
It happens.
That's true.
Plus there's also pedigree canine cookout treats.
A low fat treat.
It has less than 5 percent fat per treat.
You can reward your dog with a tasty chewy treat without feeling any guilt.
Yeah.
That's right, because the pedigree brand supports pedigree foundation, an independent 501-C3
non-profit that is committed to increasing dog adoptions nationwide and has helped over 800,000
dogs since 2008.
That's right.
That's right.
Because the pedigree brand supports pedigree foundation, an independent 501-C3 non-profit
that is committed to increasing dog adoptions nationwide and has helped over 800,000 dogs
since 2008.
Who Ray?
So shop pedigree products at your preferred retailer and learn more about how pedigree supports dog
adoption by visiting pedigree.com slash feed-good.
Hey everyone, host Nora McInerney is back for season 2 of the Head Start Embracing
the Journey, a podcast from Ruby Studio and AbV.
In each episode, Nora has real conversations with real people living with chronic migraine
to see how they take action to understand the disease.
That's right, recognizing how a migraine attack can change the course of your day.
She unpacks each guest's journey and how they talk to their doctors to find the treatment
plans that are right for them.
Yep, along with headache specialist Dr. Christopher Reign and other special guests, Nora speaks
to these incredible people who've channeled their feelings of isolation in their chronic
migraine journey into advocacy and art.
Plus, there are also eight episodes of their first season available for you to binge.
So jump into the conversation for season 2.
Show that creates a little more space for empathy and understanding in such a complicated
world.
There shouldn't be so much hesitation around asking questions and asking for help.
So don't wait, join the Head Start Embracing the Journey as they learn a little bit more
about life with chronic migraine.
Listen to this.
It's a game changer.
Amazon is now in healthcare.
Yes, Amazon.
It's called Amazon One Medical.
They offer same day appointments.
And if that's not convenient enough for you, they also have 24-7 virtual care.
Yeah, imagine you're feeling so sick that even the thought of getting out of bed is just
too much for you.
With Amazon One Medical, you don't have to leave the house.
Of course, what good is that if you then have to drag yourself to the pharmacy, but you
don't have to do that either because of Amazon Pharmacy.
It makes a lot of sense.
Delivering things fast is what Amazon is known for.
And that's exactly what they do here.
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with people who probably all have something worse than whatever you're there for.
Again, this is a game changer.
Thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical, healthcare just got less painful.
So Chuck, we're back on the skip.
You said that when UVA interacts with our skin, melanocytes are stimulated to produce
melanin.
Correct.
Yeah, totally bailed on that.
And melanin is a pigment.
And one of the roles that it plays is to absorb.
It actually absorbs radiation, UVA radiation.
And under normal circumstances, I think like literally, 999 times out of 1,000.
It when it interacts with a photon of UVA radiation, it takes that photon and it basically
absorbs it into its molecular structure.
Yeah.
And it spits it out as waste heat.
So it takes the radiation and turns it into something that's just, it's just heat.
It's not deadly.
It's not dangerous any longer.
Yeah.
And this isn't something that happens overnight.
It takes a little while to produce this melanin, which is why you don't go out and get
tan in a day.
Right.
There's a longstanding myth that people who have melanin production constantly, people with
darker skin tones, that they can't burn, and that they can't get skin cancer.
And that's wrong on both accounts.
It is more difficult for somebody with very dark skin tone to get some burned.
But I was reading skin cancer.
Right.
Yeah.
And I saw some dermatologists that if you have skin, you can get some burned.
Yeah.
Just give it enough time under the right conditions.
You'll get some burnt.
Sure.
And then yes, skin cancer is a thing as well.
People of the failure of your complexion, the worst you're going to burn and the higher
your incidence of getting skin cancer from being out in the sun is.
But it can't happen.
It's just a spectrum, but on the other end, the darkest end of the spectrum, that doesn't
mean it doesn't happen.
It just means it happens less.
So all of this applies to people of all different skin tones.
Yeah.
And like we said before, when it comes to UVA, that's a deeper penetrating light into the
skin.
It's going to destroy collagen.
It's a structural protein, and that collagen goes away, and that's when your skin comes
less elastic, less smooth.
And that is what you think of when you think of wrinkles.
Yeah.
They found this University of Michigan study found that when the participants were exposed
to UVA light, something called matrix, metalloprotonase 1 was produced, and that goes and destroys
collagen.
It's like it's one of the body's natural processes breaking down these cell walls that
give skin structure, and that leads to wrinkles and saggy skin eventually.
And they found that even when you started to tan, the MMP1 production didn't decrease
at all.
It just kept going.
So this idea that when you develop a tan, when your melanin production kicks in, that
you're being protected, that's actually not the case at all we're finding.
It's a defense mechanism, but it's not a protective measure that keeps everything fine once
your tan's set.
Yeah.
I looked up just a quadruple check about the base tan theory, and it's complete BS.
They found that a base tan provides, and we'll talk about SPF, sun protection factor.
Right.
Yeah.
Has it in the less?
A base tan provides an SPF of three or less, which means it buys you about 10 extra minutes
in the sun.
Right.
And so little that the chief of dermatologic surgery at Yale said it's essentially completely
meaningless in terms of providing protection.
So in fact, they say it can have the reverse effect because people are under this assumption
that a base tan helps.
Yeah.
So they won't do the things you need to do like wear the hats or the UV shirts or the
sun tan or sunscreen or stay out longer.
Right.
And so it ends up being even worse for you because you think you have this protective layer
of brown.
Yeah.
That's one thing that kept coming up in the research is that we have a lot of stuff to
protect ourselves and it can be made better and people are at work right now trying to
improve the things that protect us from the sun.
But that most people aren't using them right or don't understand the reality of the
situation.
Yeah.
Which is, sun's going to mess you up pretty good.
All right.
Well, that's coming up in a sec.
We've talked about sun tan.
Right.
So now let's talk about sunburn.
Sunburn kind of simply put is literally cellular damage from ultraviolet radiation.
It's called erythema or erythema.
It's a reddening of the skin and it is this delayed reddening of the skin caused by an
increase of blood flow to that area.
Yeah.
And the reason why you have increased blood flow to that area is because you've so damaged
your skin on a molecular level.
Yeah.
Your immune response has been set off.
Yeah.
And blood is rushing to the area to bring in white blood cells and other helper immune cells
to try to repair the damage you just did from letting yourself get a sunburn from UV
B raise.
Right.
And if you've ever had like a red like to check and see if your sunburn you look at
your red skin you touch it and it turns white then goes back red real quick.
It turns white because you momentarily disrupt those capillaries.
Right.
And they immediately go no we need to send blood there and then the red just comes rushing
back.
Right.
And there's no worse feeling than a bad sunburn.
No, it's pretty bad.
It ruins your beach trip.
Sure.
If you get that thing on the first day everybody gets mad at you.
You're screwed.
Yeah.
It's just no good.
It's no good.
It doesn't turn to tan.
I don't care who you are.
That is not science.
That's a myth.
It is a myth.
So people like now you don't know my skin.
It turns to tan.
Right.
No, it doesn't.
It's wrong.
There is a lot of folklore surrounding sun tan and sunburns and stuff.
Well I think because people think they just like I know my body and my skin.
It's like no, they're science that supersedes all that.
Right.
But I think the reason that there is so much myth and folklore around suntans and sun
burns is because science really kind of dropped the ball for a while and didn't really
investigate this.
They're only now starting to investigate it on a really legitimate level.
Yeah.
It's a good point.
So I mean, it's kind of science as far as...
And like you said before, any skin can get burned.
Any part of the body can get burned.
If the sunlight can touch it, even through clothing, which we'll talk about a bit later
too, you will get sunburned.
Yeah, that's another thing too.
You might think while I'm wearing a shirt.
Most shirts, unless it's specifically designed to protect against UV radiation, is letting
UV through.
And as you can get burned, you can get tan, you can get wrinkled, you can cause cellular
damage.
Anytime UV radiation comes in contact with your skin.
From what I saw, the UVB radiation is usually the likeliest culprit when you get skin
cancer because it goes in there and directly knocks around DNA.
DNA, it turns out actually is pretty good at absorbing energy and releasing or absorbing
radiation and releasing it as heat energy, just like melanin is as well.
But every once in a while, it gets excited and it gets kind of knocked out a whack.
And some of its base pairs fuse together, what we call a mutation.
And if that base pair gets fused and isn't repaired, and it happens to be at a site that
say expresses a protein that protects against tumors, well, then you can get skin cancer
and that's how it happens.
And even though that happens, the base pairs fuse together and aren't repaired out of
maybe one out of every thousand times, that's one out of every thousand interactions with
a photon.
Think of how many photons are barreling down at you over a given minute of exposure to
sunlight.
The odds are against you.
Agreed.
And since you mentioned the UV clothing or SPF clothing, they are pretty great.
Most of the people I know now wear those shirts.
Well, they look cool.
Well, I wear one of those now because it's sort of three purposes.
It looks kind of cool.
I hate applying sunscreen all over my body.
I'll hit my face and arms and stuff, but like putting all over my chest and belly and
back and all, you're going to miss spots and have weird streaks of sunburn here and there
where you missed it.
And it's just no good.
And then third, when you have some extra pounds, it's like slimming.
Well, if you wear the T-shirt in the pool, everybody knows.
It's not a good look, but you can get away with the SPF shirt.
I think that is one reason why SPF shirts were adopted.
Oh, sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But they really work great and they dry super quick like my skinny friends use them, you
know.
Right.
But it's good for fat dudes too.
But they are rated up to like 50 plus.
The tighter the weave, the better.
They say to hold a shirt up to the light.
And just a regular shirt will work.
Like denim, they said, is one of the best things because it's such a tight weave.
Yeah.
Not just like wearing a jean jacket at the feet.
Put on that denim tuxedo.
And you're all set.
But a UPF rating, they go from about 15 to 50.
If you can hold it up to the light and not see anything, the darker they're better.
It's like mine is like gray and black.
And some of them or even have or even treated, I think.
Yeah.
That's what I thought.
And just the weave is so tight.
Yeah.
Sunlight light can't penetrate.
It's a physical barrier to the UVB.
What do they treat some of them with?
I'm not exactly sure.
That's the one thing that I'm kind of sketchy about because I don't love like, I try
to not use harmful chemicals as much as possible.
Sure.
I don't know if those are like soaked in my carcinogenic.
Right.
Probably not.
Right?
Yeah, probably not.
It's probably magic dust of some sort.
But this woman who is, I think she's a director of a dermatology at Mount Sinai Medical Center
in New York says that clothing is a single most effective form of sun protection, even
more than sunscreen.
Kind of for the reasons I mentioned because it's complete coverage.
I've got a long sleeve one too.
So it's just nice that they would not have to worry about all the sunscreen junk.
Yeah.
I don't usually get a ton of sun exposure to my legs.
I guess because you're usually vertical in a pool, like I don't lay around on a float.
Yeah.
And it's underwater.
Well, you want to be careful.
UV radiation can penetrate up to a foot underwater.
Yeah, for sure.
But I mean, like I don't wear any sunscreen on my legs and, you know, I've got my pants
off.
Look at them.
I've got.
They're pretty white.
I've got my pants on my pants.
I've got my pants on my pants.
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You know, friends, just recently, I think a lot of you know that we lost our old, wonderful
dog, Charlie, that we rescued off the streets.
And it wasn't too long after that we went out and adopted our new little trouble making
puppy Gibson.
But regardless of the fact that he's a handful, that adopted puppy has added so much joy
to our lives.
Well, we are here to talk to you about pedigree.
Yeah, there's a lot to talk about with pedigree, Chuck.
Let's start with the pedigree pouches wet food.
It's 100% complete imbalance for adult dogs, which is important.
And by combining wet and dry dog food, you're adding nourishment, variety, and not to mention
you're stimulating your dog's appetite.
That's right.
It's made with real meat or poultry, no artificial flavors, and no sugar added.
We should also mention pedigree dentistics, the oral care treats, the unique X-shaped, clean
teeth and freshness breath, and they are clinically proven to reduce plaque and charter buildup
also with no added sugar or fillers.
I have to say I know a dog or two who could use fresher breath.
It happens.
That's true.
Plus, there's also pedigree canine cookout treats.
A low fat treat.
It has less than 5% fat per treat.
You can reward your dog with a tasty chewy treat without feeling any guilt.
Yeah, it's also a meat first recipe with no artificial fillers or flavors, and it's
available in two tasty flavors, chicken and beef.
Nice.
Chicken and the beef.
Dogs love the meaty taste of pedigree canine cookout treats, and you can also feel good
knowing you're supporting a brand that's committed to dog adoption.
That's right, because the pedigree brand supports pedigree foundation, an independent 501
C3 non-profit that is committed to increasing dog adoptions nationwide and has helped
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Hey, everyone.
Host Nora McInerney is back for season two of the Head Start Embracing the Journey, a
podcast from Ruby Studio and Abvy.
In each episode, Nora has real conversations with real people living with chronic migraine
to see how they take action to understand the disease.
That's right, recognizing how a migraine attack can change the course of your day.
She unpacks each guest's journey and how they talk to their doctors to find the treatment
plans that are right for them.
Yep, along with headache specialist Dr. Christopher Reign and other special guests, Nora speaks
to these incredible people who've channeled their feelings of isolation and their chronic
migraine journey into advocacy and art.
Plus, there are also eight episodes of their first season available for you to binge.
So jump into the conversation for season two.
The show that creates a little more space for empathy and understanding in such a complicated
world.
There shouldn't be so much hesitation around asking questions and asking for help.
So don't wait.
Join the Head Start Embracing the Journey as they learn a little bit more about life with
chronic migraine.
Listen to this.
It's a game changer.
Amazon is now in healthcare.
Yes, Amazon.
It's called Amazon One Medical.
They offer same day appointments and if that's not convenient enough for you, they also
have 24-7 virtual care.
Yeah, imagine you're feeling so sick that even the thought of getting out of bed is just
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With Amazon One Medical, you don't have to leave the house.
Of course, what good is that if you then have to drag yourself to the pharmacy, but you
don't have to do that either because of Amazon Pharmacy.
It makes a lot of sense.
Delivering things fast is what Amazon is known for and that's exactly what they do here.
They'll deliver your prescriptions directly to your door, no waiting in pharmacy lines
with people who probably all have something worse than whatever you're there for.
Again, this is a game changer.
Thanks to Amazon Pharmacy and Amazon One Medical, healthcare just got less painful.
All right.
If we were in the way back machine, we travel back to ancient Egypt.
We might see people slapping Ove bran on their skin or Jasmine.
Rice bran, what does it say?
Ove bran.
Those from the food fads at the Dummy.
Yeah, rice bran spreading, I guess moist rice bran.
Why not?
Or Jasmine.
They're like, why not?
It's 2500 BC.
That's party.
Well, apparently Jasmine is good at repairing damaged skin.
I wonder if they tried Jasmine rice.
Oh, man.
About that.
Yeah.
I would have been like onto something back then.
Yeah, you would.
So they did this back then, but actual sunscreen didn't come around until the turn of the
century until the early 1900s.
Yeah.
Thousands of years after the Egyptian dynasties were over.
Yep.
There was a guy named Milton Blake.
He was Australian.
And he came up with what is considered the first sunblock in his kitchen, apparently,
over like the course of 12 years.
And they still make it in Australia.
Can you really call it sunblock back then though?
It's more like sun.
They call it a good first try.
Yeah.
He took him about 12 years of experimentation.
But like you said, he finally again selling it.
And is it what's the brand called Milton Blake?
It was the one thing that I didn't look up.
All right.
Well, while you do that, I'll go to the 1940s to Switzerland.
It was a Swiss man named Franz Gerita who was a climber.
And we mentioned snow burns.
Snow sun burns were pretty bad.
And so he was, I think he had ascended Mount Pits on the Swiss Austrian border and got
really burned.
Is that Pits Palau from Inglorious Bastards?
Is that the same mountain?
Oh, I don't know.
I forgot about that part.
Yeah.
But he got really burned and was like, this is awful.
So he came back and started work.
And in 1946 came up with the Pits Boon glacier cream.
And this had an SPF of two, which like he said, good start.
I don't even know if that qualifies as a good start.
Well, it was probably more than Milton Blake's, don't you think, or?
Well, supposedly a Caucasian people have a.
Natural SPF of about three.
So this guy somehow managed to bring it down and not.
And then in Miami, Florida, there was a man named Benjamin Green.
He was an airman and pharmacist and he was flying in World War II and got a lot of sun
up there.
And so he developed something called he labeled red vet pet, red veterinary petro lotum.
Which I think is the same thing as petroleum, right?
And I was surprised when I saw that he was an airman and vet figured it meant a veteran
of a war.
Yeah, no veterinary.
Who knew?
And then he would later add a little cocoa butter, a little coconut oil and voila, you
have copper tone.
Yeah.
And then in 1956, they revealed the little copper tone girl illustration.
Yeah.
And it became a household hit.
I think actually helped sun block in general become a thing by the 1960s.
Yeah.
That little girl's name is Sherry Irwin.
And she was the daughter of the woman who designed it.
Yeah, the illustrator, right?
Yeah.
Joyce Valentine in 1959 used her own daughter as a model and Joyce Valentine on her own
was very just sort of an anomaly at the time.
She got a lot of work as a graphic artist in the 1950s.
And her daughter called her a maverick in that way.
And that she was, you know, in the 1950s, it was kind of tough for a lady to get that kind
of high dollar work.
Sure.
And so that's off to you.
Joyce Valentine.
Yep.
And Sherry is still around.
I can see that.
Joyce might be too.
I saw a recent thing.
Really?
This is 1956.
Yeah.
She may be gone, but the art of the film wasn't that she could totally be around.
I mean, I forgot what you were.
I didn't catch the date on the article I read about her.
I got you.
But it's worth looking at.
She's interesting.
So yeah, Coppertone took off.
The 1960s is when sunscreens kind of caught hold a little bit, but it wasn't until the
late 70s until the FDA got involved.
And so maybe we should like have some guidelines here.
Yeah, which they did.
And a lot of them didn't take some of them did.
But one of the things that the FDA did when they got involved with sunscreen, especially
in the US, they're roundly criticized for basically being really slow at testing the
chemicals that are used on the one hand hats off for caring.
Sure.
That the chemicals we put on our bodies aren't going to kill us, but at the same time hurry
up.
Right.
Just a handful of chemicals that are in use as active ingredients in sunscreen in the
United States, whereas Europe has something like 28, right?
I believe.
And I guess Europe and Japan, their sunscreen is way better than the stuff that we use here
in the States.
Yeah, and it's not because they're just willing to know about what they'll allow.
They've actually researched and okay, more chemicals.
Yeah, typically the EU is pretty serious about when they clear chemicals is pretty safe.
So how does sunscreen work?
So Chuck, here's how sunscreen works.
For years and years and years and years and years, up until the 21st century, it protected
you from UVB only.
Yes.
And even still there's plenty of sunscreens out there that only protect you from UVB.
So if you want protection from UVB and UVA, which is what you want, you want to find
one that's called broad spectrum sunscreen.
Yeah, and it will say that they will champion that very clearly on the label.
Yeah, and if it's not on the label, it doesn't do anything to protect you from UVB.
No.
And so the whole, yeah, UVA, only UVB.
So you'll get a tan, but you won't burn if you use it correctly.
Yes, you will just age rapidly.
So with sunscreen, you will see also on the label, they will say SPF, some protection factor
of 15 or 30 or 50 or 100, apparently goes up to 110 now.
Really?
Yeah.
And there's a lot of controversy with that too, which we'll talk about.
But with some proof factor, this is how they determine it.
Are you ready?
Yeah.
They take the sunscreen and they put a little square on somebody's bottom and then they
expose it to UV radiation.
And they use the bottom because that is the part of the body, least likely to have gotten
sun.
Sure.
It's like a blank slate without being a sexual organ.
Well put.
Yeah.
Because you don't want to test sun.
No.
No.
And then they'll go to the other buttock and they will say expose that to UV radiation,
but it won't be treated with sunscreen.
Yeah.
And we'll do this up again and again and again, basically until you burn.
Yeah.
And then they will say, okay, well, what was the minimum dose for the untreated buttock
and we're going to take that and use that to divide the minimum dose of UV radiation
for the treated buttock and then that number is going to be SPF.
And we're going to round down to the nearest five.
Yeah.
And that's what some protection factor is.
It's ultimately another way of saying what percentage of the radiation from the sun,
this stuff blocks.
Right.
So if you get sun burned after 10 minutes in the sun with nothing, if you put on SPF 15,
you can be in the sun for about 150 minutes without burning.
Yeah.
Because there's another way to, there's a formula for taking SPF to figure out how it applies
to you.
And it is you take the number of minutes it takes you to burn.
Which, who knows that?
Do you know how long it takes you to burn?
Nope.
That's the dumbest formula ever.
How many minutes it takes you to burn?
Times the number on the SPF and then that's how many minutes you can hang out outside without
burning.
That's what SPF means to you personally.
Yeah.
And here are the caveats.
And there's a lot of them.
One of them is when they do these studies, they apply way more than your average person
does when they go to the wherever in the sun.
Yeah, they're applying the amount you're supposed to apply.
Right.
I would say just cut everything in half to be safe.
That's probably pretty good rule of thumb.
Like if you're like, man, I'm good with the 15.
Use a 30.
Maybe even by three quarters.
Because I saw a lot of people use between a quarter to a half of what you're supposed
to use.
Right.
And one reason they do, well, the beginning application is already short-changed.
And then you need to reapply this stuff because even though they say sweat, proof, and
waterproof, we all know that that isn't true throughout the day.
Supposedly, if you in the United States market something as water resistant or very water
resistant, it has to last either 40 or 80 minutes respectively in the water.
Right.
But even still, they say when you get out, just immediately reapply sunscreen like you're
starting from scratch again.
You should.
And I don't do that either.
Like you said, you don't.
It's my great failing in life.
That's one of mine for sure.
Well, and we'll get back to application here in a minute.
But I don't think we ever said for sure how this stuff works.
They work in a couple of different ways, one of two ways.
They form a barrier by their absorbing or reflecting.
So it's either a chemical filter or literally physically blocking these UV rays.
Yeah.
And forever and still apparently today, zinc oxide is the main mineral that's used as a
physical blocker, a blocker.
It reflects the sun.
It doesn't, it just bounces right off of it.
Yeah.
Like if you put zinc oxide on your face, you're golden.
It is a gross greasy white mess that's seemingly impossible to absorb.
But if you don't care what you look like or ironically, if you do care what you look
like in the long term, but don't care in the short term, that's what you should be
using on your face for sure.
You like having a nose?
Yes.
You should put zinc oxide on it.
You should.
So that's a physical barrier.
What the chemical filters do, they act like a synthetic melanin where they take the UV
radiation, absorb it, and then turn it into waste heat energy.
They don't allow it to penetrate the skin.
It's amazing.
The sun's clean as it's a, it's a, it's, you're covering your body.
You're putting it in between the sun and your body so that the sun's radiation can't penetrate
through it to your skin beneath it.
That's amazing that they came up with that.
Yeah.
It's pretty cool, especially considering the Egyptians had an idea of what was going on
here.
Oat bran.
Yeah.
Rice bran.
So we mentioned, you know, that I think you said they go up to what now?
110.
That's the highest I saw.
So the controversy there is, is basically, it doesn't, it's not an exponential growth.
Anything over 30, they just consider 30 plus.
Because if you wear something that's a 110, it's not like, well, then that's, you know,
four times almost as much as a 30.
It doesn't work that way.
No.
Well, if you burn in 10 minutes, right, and you are, say, using a 70, you should be able
to sit out in the sun for 700 minutes without, without getting a burn.
Yeah.
Technically, if everything was 100% right, that, that may be true, but that it never works
out that way in practice.
So just throw out that idea altogether, right?
And like you said, the FDA wanted it to just be 30 plus because at 30, an SPF of 30 blocks
96.7% of the sun's harmful rays, right?
Yeah.
50 though only blocks 98% and 100 blocks 99%.
And yeah, blocking 99% is better than blocking 96.7%.
Right.
But if you are sitting there just going by the SPF number and you're using a 30, and then
you think, well, if I use 100, I can just put it on once and stay out all day.
That's where the problem lies.
It gives a false sense of security where you shouldn't have security.
And so the FDA was saying, everybody just used 30 and use it correctly and reapply it
a lot.
I think what we use in our family is generally the 70 and then we also have the straight-up
zinc oxide.
Oh, you do, huh?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
And I don't care what I look like anymore.
Sure.
Clearly.
I've got one of those big, wide-brim floppy fishing hats and camo with the neck thing and
everything.
I'll rock that.
I feel the jungle hat.
They're like the Vietnam jungle hat.
I Emily wears a big straw hat because she just had a little skin cancer removed from
her temple.
Oh, no.
She's all right.
Yeah, she's good.
They got it.
She's going to keep going back.
But everything looks like.
In most cases, it is a little minor thing, you know?
Right.
But she's like hardcore now.
And she always has been hardcore about sunscreen for a while.
But now it's that and a hat.
Yeah.
And I wear my trusty pith helmet.
You have a pith helmet?
Yeah.
A pith helmet.
A pith helmet.
I do.
That's awesome.
I wore it.
It became, I got it before I think my first or not my first, I only want to be into
Newport folk festival because they're great.
They're comfortable.
They breathe.
They block out the sun.
I think they're super cool.
Because you know, I'm the only guy around with the pith helmet on.
Sure.
So I'm easy to spot in a crowd.
Pith helmet and a UV shirt and no pants.
Right.
Milk bottle white calves.
No.
Well, yeah, that's about right.
Yeah.
That's.
That's awesome.
Ray bands, pith helmet.
Yeah.
You be short.
Well, that's another one too.
Like, even if you don't like wearing sunglasses, T.S., you need to be wearing sunglasses and
ones that polarize.
I feel like I'm going to die if I don't wear sunglasses.
