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It was a dark and stormy night, just like this one, exactly four years ago today minus four days that we released The Porcupine episode.
Oh, sorry. Halloween's almost upon us, and I guess the spirit of the season got in me.
At any rate, here's our Porcupine episode.
We're proud of all of our animal episodes, but this one in particular really takes the cake, so enjoy it with some cake.
Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey, and welcome to the podcast.
I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W.
Chuck Bryan over there, and this is Stuff You Should Know about porcupines, which this is a great idea, Chuck.
Good job. You know, the porcupine, when you take away all those quills, is just a cute little guinea pig, basically.
A giant one. Yeah, a cute big guinea pig.
Speaking of cute porcupines, dude, do you remember Teddy Bear the Porcupine?
Kind of went a little viral a few years ago.
No. You have to watch Teddy Bear the Porcupine.
Specifically, Teddy Bear the Porcupine doesn't like to share on YouTube, and it is this porcupine eating corn on the cob and making all these sounds like Cousinette, and it is one of the cutest things I've ever seen in my entire life.
Yeah, we want to shout out Live Science, Smithsonian, Mental Floss, the San Diego Zoo, and a couple of other websites that I couple together.
This wonderful bit on one of our wonderful animal friends in the world.
We'd love to do these shows.
It just made me think, have you seen the Octopus documentary thing yet?
No, I haven't. It's been like kind of popping up in my periphery, but I don't really know what it is.
Is it just about octopi?
Well, it's called My Octopus Teacher.
I haven't seen it yet, but I just know the deal is this guy kind of gets to know one octopus, and that's, you know, a nice story ensues, is all I know.
That's neat. We'll have to watch that.
Yeah, I can't wait, and I mention that because, you know, we've long said that the octopus is our favorite animal, but I feel like almost every time we've done one on an animal, it's on something that we love.
And boy, do I love the Quill Pig.
I do, too. Yeah, apparently that's what their Latin name means, Quill Pig.
I love that. That's great.
That is fantastic. And it turns out, Chuck, that there are basically two groups that porcupines get lumped into.
There's a bunch of different geni, yeah, that's right, and species, but they basically fall under two categories.
It's Old World, which is Europe, Africa, Asia, and then New World, which is North, South, and Central America.
And if you saw a porcupine in South America, and you saw one in, you know, the Himalayas, you probably would be like, that's a porcupine.
That's porcupine, too.
They're not radically different, like some old world and new world animals are.
Yeah, but something I saw that was interesting was that they evolved separately.
What? One of those, what is it called, coevolutions or whatever?
No, I didn't see that.
That is crazy. I saw that, and I only saw it in one place.
Oh, I think that might have been a personal hypothesis of somebody who got themselves a website.
I saw it somewhere, though.
And then the two actually, the old world and the new world, have less in common than they do individually with like some other rodents in their area.
Yeah, so I'm actually not surprised to hear that.
But the one thing that they do have in common across the board is that they have quills and that they use their quills defensively.
Now, what their quills look like, how they use their quills, there's a lot of other distinctions and differences between old world and new world, but they all have quills.
They're all porcupines.
That seems to be the thing that binds them.
It's the tie that binds that family.
Yeah, and it's easy to take the porcupine for granted, I think, and just say, yeah, the little animal with all those quills.
But when you take a step back and look at it and think about the evolution of the porcupine that, like I said, it sort of would be a very large sort of cute little fluffy guinea pig, but it probably got eaten a lot.
And then, you know...
They said nuts to this.
Nature steps in. It's like, all right, how about this?
What if we were just animal pin cushions such that if he came anywhere near us, you would be stabbed repeatedly if you tried to eat us?
Like, it's one of the most amazing evolutionary adaptations I've ever seen.
Yeah, and I mean, they can really use those things too.
There's a long -standing myth that they can shoot them, which is not true, but apparently even Aristotle fell for that one.
What a dummy. But they can use them in some pretty interesting ways.
And you hit the nail on the head when you said, you know, step back.
If you see a porcupine, that is good advice.
You should probably step back because depending on the species or whether it's old world or new world, those quills can mess you up pretty good.
Yeah, but also, you know, get nearby and take a look.
Like, they're not going to come after you.
The porcupine is a very kind -hearted animal and those are 100 % for defense.
A porcupine is never going to charge you and, you know, leap at your belly to put quills all in your stomach.
So take a little look, admire it for what it is.
I think, you know, to talk about porcupines, a lot of this is talking about the old world versus the rush version.
Yeah, so the big differences that I saw, and there's lots of differences between different species within each of these groups, but the old world versus new world has some big differences between them.
And one of them is that old world are typically terrestrial porcupines.
They spend most of their lives on the ground.
They live in burrows or caves or rock dens and new world porcupines.
They live on the ground too.
They live in burrows, but they're also very capable of climbing trees and they'll spend a significant amount of time and sometimes nest in trees.
And there are some species that spend virtually their whole lives in trees, almost like sloths.
Yeah, quill -wise, the new world porcupines, quills are going to be shorter and smaller in general.
I think they're about four to 10, four inches, 10 centimeters.
The old world dudes and ladies, they can get very long.
They can have quills up to 20 inches long.
They can be marked with black and white bands.
And what they can do is these old world guys can puff them up.
So they stand up and are more intimidating.
And look also, I mean, it's weird because it's like multifold, like four or five different things they do by doing this.
They look larger. So that's always something that vulnerable animals try to do in the wild.
They look like a skunk a little bit because of the black and white marking down their back.
They actually have a defensive musk, kind of like a skunk, but just not nearly as bad.
Yeah. So they try to imitate a skunk a little bit.
They look bigger. They rattle.
They can shake those things and rattle them, which is another great adaptation to say like, get away from me, don't try and eat me.
And supposedly that works pretty well too.
Yeah, totally. And then if all else fails, they're stabby.
They are stabby. So sometimes the old world ones will actually charge backwards toward a predator if they're feeling like they want to stand their ground.
And that's usually when they're caught out in the open.
If they have a place to hide, they'll stick their head in that place to hide and then puff out their quills and make themselves hard to get at.
But if they're on the open, they may decide that they're going to fight off this predator and they'll charge backward.
And one other adaptation I saw, which I thought was awesome, they'll have the predator chase it and then they'll stop all of a sudden and the predator will run into them in their quills for real.
And then you hear the sound effect.
Yeah, exactly. And then it's too late.
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting because those quills, even though they puff them out, they are pointy generally in the reverse direction, which is why they have to back up into something to quill them.
Or like you said, bury them, just throw on that parking brake real quick.
And all of a sudden that fox has got a face full of quill.
Right, so that old world contains a couple of species that are called crested porcupines.
And they basically look like if the quills were like an umbrella, it opens at the back of their head.
Yeah. And just kind of sticks out like that.
And like you said, it makes them look a lot bigger.
They're a lot more dangerous.
The big difference with quills between the old world and the new world, in addition to being shorter, is old world porcupines are covered in quills.
That's all they have.
I don't know if we said or not, but quills are just modified hair.
They're made of keratin, they're just like hair, they're just way stabby -er than hair that you and I have.
Well, it's like hair meets fingernails.
Basically, yeah, that's a great way to put it.
And old world porcupines, that's all they have are quills.
New world porcupines have quills that are also mixed in with fur, like an undercoat, longer hairs.
And their quills kind of stand up and are used for defense.
It's not all that they have.
And the other thing about their quills is that they have little barbs.
And new world porcupines barbs make new world quills way more dangerous than old world quills.
Yeah. It's like a little fish hook, basically.
And instead of just poking right into you, it'll actually snag in your flesh and makes it, like you said, way, way tougher to get out.
A much harder time removing a new world quill than an old world quill.
But those new world guys are, because their quills start further back, you get the feeling if you just, I wouldn't recommend this, but if you just go very gently and just say, hey, little guy, I just want to give you a scratch under the chin.
And I think you might enjoy it.
And I'm going to move very slowly.
Just don't turn around and you'll have a really good time.
I'd like to include a disclaimer here.
Don't do it. You guys should not listen to Chuck right now.
He's doling out some really terrible advice.
Yeah. It's just because those quills start further back, they got that cute little head and face, and it just makes you want to give them a scratch.
Yeah, no, totally. Like if you watch Teddy Bear videos, Teddy Bear the porcupine, you will want to go get one as a pet.
There's another one I saw called D .Va, and she was a baby porcupine.
She's adorable. Yeah, you totally want to do that.
And I'm sure there are ways to handle them.
But I also saw one of those zoo guys on a late night talk show, and he had, I think, an African crested porcupine on his lap.
And that thing was not at all worried or scared or in any sort of defense mode.
And that dude was in pain just letting this thing sit on his lap.
Because I don't know.
You said, you know, they look like guinea pigs.
And I said, overgrown guinea pigs.
Some of these things can get really big.
There's a Cape porcupine.
I think it's the biggest one.
They get up to like 65 pounds.
65 pounds is like a large dog.
Yeah. And with quills, though.
With the quills puffed up?
No, like there are 65 pounds year round.
And then imagine a 65 -pound dog with those quills.
That's dangerous. Yeah.
What I meant, I know they don't actually weigh more when they puff up, but when they puff those quills out, they can look two to three times their size.
So I imagine that thing looks enormous.
And actually, I don't do this much, but I'm watching that thing eat that corn on the cob right now.
Isn't that adorable?
Yeah. I have to have the sound down, so I'm going to go back and watch it.
You have to hear the sound.
The sound doesn't. But even without the sound, he's just awfully cute.
Yeah. They kind of look like beavers a little bit too, and they are related as fellow rodents.
Here, I think we should take a break.
So I'm getting kind of worked up here.
And we'll come back and talk more about these cute little stabby suckers right after this.
Hey there. I'm Dr. Maya Schunker, and I'm a scientist who studies human behavior.
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Okay, Charles, we're back.
And we've been talking mostly about quills.
Yeah, so one more thing about quills, and there's going to be more than one more thing about quills, let's be honest.
But we said they couldn't shoot them.
What they can do, these things do fall out just like hair, and they grow just like fingernails and will eventually fall.
So when they shake, if they have loose quills, they can fly off, but they're still not like shooting, like Aristotle said, like deadly needle darts.
No, but they can be problematic.
Like these things can puncture the KAL tires, I think up in the Yukon, and they said that it's actually it can be a problem.
Like if you run over one.
Like on some roads.
Yeah, that if you're out in the middle of nowhere and you run over a porcupine quill, you're probably going to get a flat.
That's how tough those things are.
Well, that's sad. What?
For your tire? No, for the afternoon?
Well, no, you're not running over.
Are you still watching teddy bear videos?
No, I thought you said if you run over a porcupine, porcupine quill.
Oh, well, being what?
Is it just a loose quill on the road?
Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying.
Like just a loose quill laying on the road.
If you run over, it goes into your sidewall.
You're probably going to get a flat tire.
That's how tough those things are.
Okay. I thought you meant if you actually run over a porcupine and you have like a bunch of quills.
That would probably do it too, especially if the porcupine was in a defensive procedure, but the porcupine doesn't have to die in this case for you to get a flat tire.
So regardless of that sadness, there is sadness in that despite this great adaptation and this great defense mechanism, they still can be hunted.
Lions can still hunt them.
Human people, there's the bushmeat trade for the old world porcupines that is, you know, just you know what that means.
And there are owls, wolverines, pythons.
There's something called a fissure that looks sort of like a weasel bear fox or something.
Did you look that thing up?
Yeah. I think it's related to otters and weasels.
Okay. But it had a little sort of a bear face.
It was interesting.
They apparently stink too.
Well, they stink in more ways than one because they learned to flip these porcupines over where they have that soft belly meat and no quills as a way to attack them, which really makes me mad.
Yeah. I don't like fissures for that reason either.
I'd never heard of them until recently until we started researching this.
I hadn't either. They're on my hit list.
I don't like them. Nope.
I just don't like them.
Eat something else.
Yeah. Leave the porcupines alone because they're actually pretty nice.
Yeah. And they don't eat, what do they eat?
They eat vegetables and fruits and berries and nuts and tubers and roots.
Yeah. So they eat all those things.
They'll also eat crops, which is, porcupines are considered a nuisance, especially if you're a farmer or even a gardener in the suburbs because they will eat your root vegetables.
They will eat corn, love corn apparently.
But they'll also, they have another thing too where they need sodium in their diet.
Yeah. This is so weird.
They need a pretty even ratio of one to one of potassium to sodium for their electrical conductivity in their body to work.
But they don't get much sodium in their diet.
Plants have lots of potassium, not much sodium.
So they have to go find it elsewhere.
And it turns out we humans have a lot of stuff that has sodium in it.
Apparently plywood glue contains a lot of sodium.
So they love eating wood structures we build out of plywood.
The salt that we put on the roads gets kicked up on the underside of our car.
So you might find a porcupine chewing on the tires or the hoses or belts or wires under your car.
Yeah. I saw that they would even, because the humans sweat so much salt when they're working, that they'll go at like, if you have some wooden pruners in your shed, they'll go in there and they'll start eating the handle of your pruners.
Because it just has a residual human salt left over on it.
Right. And you just walk in, you're like, are you nuts?
What is wrong with you?
You porcupine? Just set up a salt lick for those fellas.
Yeah. Well, they'll find anywhere they can find a natural salt.
Like they'll definitely eat that too.
But yes, anything that has human sweat on it, even trace amounts of human sweat, they'll go bonkers.
Like they eat oars, paddles, that kind of stuff.
So, but yes, typically they eat leaves, stems, they eat shoots and leaves.
They also, though, and this is another reason why they're considered a nuisance.
They eat the bark off of the tree.
So they're considered generalists.
They'll eat just about any kind of vegetation.
Yeah. Which is actually, and they're super adaptable, which is why you'll find porcupines almost anywhere there's vegetation.
But that's what they eat, you know, in spring, summer, fall.
And then in winter, they don't hibernate, which actually makes them kind of unusual as well.
But they go from being generalists to what's known as, um, faculative specialists, meaning their diet becomes very limited to just one or two types of trees and not just one or two types of trees.
During the winter, they may just feed on the inner bark of one tree.
And that can be problematic because the inner bark is where nutrients in water moves from the roots to the rest of the tree.
And if that porcupine eats all the way around it, what's called girdling a tree, it can kill or seriously damage that tree.
Yeah. So if, I mean, if you have a problem, if you live in the woods and stuff and you see a tree, it could be a beaver, but either way you kind of handle it the same.
You can wrap like chicken wire around it, around the bottom or some sort of, um, aluminum or something sheeting to keep the, the beaver and or porcupine from gnawing on that thing.
Yeah. And I would guess you'd want to wear work gloves because the salt from the sweat in your hands is just going to attract into that chicken wire.
Uh, yeah, they eat, they're nocturnal.
So they're mainly doing this stuff at night.
They're patrolling around.
Uh, they're defending their areas that they feed.
I saw both. I saw that they're territorial.
I saw that they're also not territorial.
Yeah. It probably depends with, you know, so many different species, because they will travel outside their home range, uh, if they want to get a mate.
Um, or if they need that salt, they're usually, uh, they're fairly solo flyers, although, um, sometimes you'll see a couple of them.
Uh, they may be mated.
They may be siblings.
Um, I don't think we mentioned that the old world, uh, porcupines are actually really good swimmers.
Both of them are for, from what I understand.
Oh, really? Okay. Yeah.
And New World will actually go swim out to gather aquatic plants.
They swim more than the old world does, but they just swim to collect plants and then they bring it back to the shore to eat.
Yeah. And they're, they're living in, uh, they don't, they'll like sleep in trees sometimes the climbers will, but, uh, it seems like they make use of other animals dens when they're not around and they have left, like, uh, they'll go to an Ardvark den that has been abandoned, uh, or a hole and they
will change it around, maybe knock down some walls, open up that floor plan.
Yeah. Island in the kitchen.
Yeah. Of course. Got to have the big island.
Sure. And then, you know, they, they'll just adapt it to their needs, uh, because obviously they're a little puffier than the Ardvark.
Yeah. And in doing so, Chuck, a question that I kept running up against was what role did porcupines play in the ecosystem?
And they think that one of the big roles they play is by basically disturbing stuff.
They disturb the soil when they're, when they're digging and burrowing and everything.
Interesting. And they, they found that they, the, um, through that they propagate way more seeds than, than would otherwise be propagated if they weren't around.
So forests are much more diverse with them in it than without them because of all of their scratching and moving and all that stuff.
Yeah. And it seems like for rodents, they live, uh, a long time.
They can live in the wild, I mean, I sort of saw a wild range anywhere from three to five years in the wild to like 10 years in the wild.
I saw one that lived to be 18.
I saw the record was 25, which I think was second only to a beaver as far as the, the rodent record.
I think there was a 28 year old beaver once.
I saw one in Brazil was to, um, can live up to 27 years in captivity.
Oh, wow. Yeah. So that's, I mean, that's long lived, but yeah, I saw three to five years too.
And I guess it just depends on the species, you know.
Yeah. And the other thing about their, uh, feeding habits is they eat seasonally, uh, they're little hipsters.
They eat seasonally and locally.
So the, depending on what's there, they will, I think in the winter they'll eat more evergreen needles and the, like sort of the inner bark of the trees and stuff like that.
Right. Uh, and then, you know, when those sweet berries come around or when that corn crop is coming in, just look out.
Then they turn back into generalists.
That's right. So, um, I feel like we cannot go any further, can't dance around the fact that porcupines copulate.
Um, and when they do copulate, they produce offspring and we should talk about that.
Yeah. Should we break or should we do this and then break?
I feel like we're going to need to take a break after this.
Okay. So porcupines have stabby quills.
That point backwards.
That's right. And if you know how a rodent and a mammal like this would have sex, it is, uh, from something, a male approaching the female from the rear, right where those things are pointing.
And so you think, how do they do this?
Uh, what happens is the males are going to, um, they're going to vie for the female like so many animals.
They have these sort of noisy battles and they, they wind and they stomp when they win and stomp their tail and try to impress the lady, puff their quills out.
And if the lady says, all right, I think you might be a good match for me.
What does he do? He sprays urine all over her.
That's right. Um, and she goes, she goes, that was wonderful.
Um, let's go big boy.
Yeah. I'm going to put down.
I'm going to lay down my quills and move the tail to the side.
It's business time.
Right. Yeah. Cause the tail is barbed.
I don't think we said that either.
No, like all the quills are barbed, right?
Well, no, I think the actual tail is barbed.
Oh, good Lord. Which can help with the climbing and stuff.
Right. So I think it would take being sprayed with urine to, to, you would want to reach that level of commitment to make sure that you could trust that that barbed tail is going to be kept to the side.
Are we really in? Are we in?
Right. And then yes, that, that definitely says, yes, you're in, um, you're in.
Get it? Yep. I told you we would need a break.
Let's take one, shall we?
All right. And we'll talk to you about, uh, we'll talk about porcupets right after this.
Hey there. I'm Dr. Maya Schunker and I'm a scientist who studies human behavior.
Many of us have experienced a moment in our lives that changes everything.
A moment that instantly divides our life into a before and an after.
On my podcast, a slight change of plans.
I talk to people about navigating these very moments.
The last couple of years has been the hardest season of our marriage for sure.
I'm surprised our marriage survived it.
I think we both are.
I think we both were barely holding on.
Nothing compares to how hard this is.
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The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies.
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Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself.
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So Chuck, the porcupines have copulated.
They were successful.
And the female has now gestated for 205 to 217 days.
And what did you say were just born?
Porcupets. Like E -T -T -E -S.
Yeah, not pets as in something you keep, but yeah, little porcupets.
Like the 50s singing group girl version of the porcupines.
Randy Porcupine and the porcupets.
Right, exactly. Yeah, and here's where it got a little confusing, because I saw different stuff depending on where I looked.
And again, it may be according to species.
I saw that they rarely have more than one at a time.
I also saw that sometimes they have up to four.
But let's just say between one and four per litter.
And they stay with their mommies for a little longer than what I found.
It says, and I think from the San Diego Zoo, just a few months.
But I also saw anywhere from 12 to 24 months.
And they at least need that mother's milk for like six months.
And I think it really depends on the species.
Like I saw the largest ones, the caped porcupine, they actually stay in family units of a mom and a dad and one to two kids.
Oh, interesting, because the dad's usually out of there with the porcupines.
Right, right. So yeah, especially with North American porcupines, I feel like a lot, because we're in America, a lot of the info we got was for North American porcupines.
And people just called it porcupines, which required a lot more digging.
But I feel like with North American porcupines, it's like, hey, good luck with the kids.
And then the mom has the kid and is like, Hey, I'm weaning you good luck with the rest of your life.
And then they live this kind of solitary, happy existence, digging around and eating tree bark.
Yeah. And if you think the porcupine is as soft and cute as you would imagine, you are correct.
Those needle like quills start to stiffen up very quickly, but it takes the, it kind of starts three or four days later.
And then I imagine takes a little while to reach full, you know, kind of hard quill version.
Yeah. And I saw it conflicting information too.
I saw that they were born precocious where they had a full set of teeth, their eyes were open.
And then it just took a few hours for their quills to harden into like adult quillage.
That was even take two, Chuck.
Yes. Adult quillage.
Thank you for that.
Yeah. I also saw that with their eyes were closed for a long time.
Yeah. Yeah. So dunno, it's possible it's different species.
It's also possible a San Diego zoo just got a bunch of stuff wrong.
Well, that's always possible.
Great zoo. I've been there.
Uh, I know we did an episode on zoos and whether or not they were ethical.
So you can go make up your own mind about that.
But and they were, Jack Hanna hailed from, wasn't he a San Diego zoo guy?
I feel like that's probably true.
Let's just say it is, I got something else on these quills.
Uh, they have an...
Wait a minute. I thought we, I thought we were done with quills.
You said, no, no, never done with quills.
Okay. Uh, they have an antiseptic quality apparently, uh, in case of self -stabbage.
That's awesome. I hadn't seen that actually.
And I think we should say too, um, just one more thing about quills.
I'm breaking my own rules here because they're like modified hair.
They, um, grow back when they're shed.
They're constantly shedding and growing quills.
Yeah. And like I said, you should not approach one in the wild, but, um, they may carry rabies, but other than that, they don't really carry any other diseases, which we need to worry about.
Yeah. Like if you wanted to love porcupines anymore, there you go.
Like you could snuggle one and you don't have to worry about any diseases.
Yes, but don't eat them like they do in some parts of the world.
Um, they are in pretty good shape, but, uh, they have been exterminated in certain parts of Africa, um, because they do eat root crops.
So they're a nuisance pest.
So they get rid of them.
Uh, people can quilec, uh, quilect.
You like that? They can collect the quills for ornamentation.
Um, and I think there's a couple of them that are listed as vulnerable.
Uh, and it's very sadly of course, because their habitat is being lost.
Yes, but globally porcupines are under, um, they're considered of least concern.
Yeah. Um, which itself is concerning because they're considered pests in a lot of places.
So they're eradicated.
Um, the, I think it was the Maryland DNR, the Do Not Resuscitate Agency, um, said that on their site that porcupines, um, used to be in the Southeastern United States, but they were eradicated.
I didn't know that and I've, I've never heard that and I couldn't find it anywhere else, but I don't know why the DNR would make that up.
I'm trying to think if I've ever seen one in the wild.
They do not live in the Southeast, but the, the Maryland DNR is saying like, I've, I've traveled all over the world.
I'm not saying in my backyard.
Oh, I got you. Well, we were talking about the Southeast.
You can imagine why I fell for that one.
No, I'm just trying to think of other, of I've seen one like camping out West or anything.
I don't know if I've ever seen one.
I never have. I would think you would definitely remember seeing a porcupine in real life.
Probably armadillos everywhere.
Yeah, everywhere. And you know, they carry Hanson's disease.
So don't get close to them.
Porcupines don't carry any communicable diseases that humans are concerned about.
Except rabies. Yeah, they can be rabid, but all mammals can be rabid, you know?
So should we talk about what happens?
You know, if you just Google porcupine and dog, you're going to get a lot of very sad pictures of curious dogs who stuck their snout where they shouldn't and are barbed all over the nose and snout.
Not good. No. And there's a lot of things that you want to do and don't want to do if that happens to your dog because it's actually really bad if that happens.
So if your dog, if you ever see a porcupine on a hike with your dog, get your dog away from that porcupine.
Not just for the porcupine's sake.
Like if a porcupine goes into a defensive posture, it's scared to death.
It might seem all tough and angry.
It's scared. That's why it's doing that.
But also, it could really mess your dog up.
So for at least your dog's sake, get your dog away from the porcupine.
And if you fail to do that quickly enough, and your dog does take some quills in its face, in its neck, wherever, those things can, because especially on in the new world, porcupine, that their quills have barbs, they can migrate further and further inward.
They're not going to work themselves out.
They're going to actually work themselves in.
So you want to take your dog to a vet like you, your dog gets quilled, you get in the car, you go to the vet, that's the order of how everything happens.
You don't stop and get a double cheeseburger.
You don't go home and read the paper first.
You go straight to the vet because your dog's going to need to go under general anesthesia to have those things removed.
That's how bad of a jam it is.
Yeah, I'm actually going to amend that with your permission.
Because the first thing you should do, and hopefully you're with someone else, it really would be great if you have two people in on this, one to drive and one to keep your dog from messing with their face.
Yeah, that's a big one.
Because if there's quills poking into the dog's face, they're going to paw at it.
They're going to try and rub their nose on the ground.
And that is bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, because those quills are just going to go further and further in.
So you really, really need to do your best to hold onto your dog, hold their head up and keep their paws away from their face.
And like you said, go straight to that vet because don't try and remove them yourself.
You're only going to make it worse, and that's guaranteed.
There's also supposedly a myth that if you clip the porcupine quill, it deflates it and makes it easier to come out.
They're not inflated with air.
So clipping, it's not going to deflate anything.
Is that air subtle?
Yeah. And it actually can make the quill shatter because imagine like a really hard claw or something like that being clipped with some scissors is going to shatter some.
And if enough of a piece shatters far enough down, it can reach the skin level and then if it works its way in, all of a sudden you just made it that much harder to get out because you just added a new barb, which is that shattered jagged edge that used to be intact before you cut it like a knucklehead.
Yeah. I mean, I could see the instinct if you don't know what's going on to be to clip them because if they're really long and sticking out of their face, it looks terrible or to try and just yank them out.
But don't do either one of those things.
Another big reason why is the risk of infection is really, really big.
I mean, they have multiple, multiple stab wounds essentially.
And they, like you said, the only solution is general anesthesia.
I mean, it's not surgery, but it's not not surgery.
No. And some of these may not ever be able to come out and your pets is going to have a lifetime of being monitored to make sure they don't migrate toward a joint or an organ or the back of their eye, who knows, depending on where they got stab with the quill.
So, I think it was the ASPCA that said the best way to deal with this is to prevent it from ever happening.
Just don't let your dog anywhere near a porcupine.
It's just not worth the risk.
Yeah. And you're going to scare the porcupine too.
Yeah. And if you live in porcupine country, don't ever let your dog out of the house.
No. As a matter of fact, just keep it wrapped in bubble wrap at all times.
Toilet train them. Yeah.
Or just change the bubble wrap, let them pee in the bubble wrap.
Yeah. Just get tons and tons of bubble wrap and then don't throw it away.
Don't hit a huge pile at the end of each season in your front yard and melt it with a blowtorch.
Yeah. That's great.
Maybe mix it with acetone first.
Yes. I've got two more porcupine facts, if you will indulge me.
Let's hear it. You got anything else?
I got nothing else.
In the 70s, the 70s in the UK was a swinging time for porcupines, apparently, because there was a population of Himalayan porcupines, crested, I believe, in South Devon in the wild, because they'd escaped from the zoo sometime in the 70s and lived on the land for a decade.
And the same thing happened in Staffordshire with a kind of crested porcupine, where they had a wild population because they escaped from the zoo too.
Is that near Stoke -on -Trent?
I don't know. We'll have to ask Tom if that's near Stoke -on -Trent.
All right. You got anything else again?
I got nothing else.
Okay. Well, that's it for porcupines, everybody.
Go watch teddy bear videos.
You're going to love them.
Since I said teddy bear, it's time for a listener mail.
Man, I can't wait to turn up the volume on this.
It's going to knock your socks right off.
Teddy bear is probably on Instagram, I would imagine, but I do follow that groundhog on Instagram.
Oh, I think I know who you're talking about.
Yeah, chunk the groundhog.
It's good stuff. All right.
So here we go. This is from Don the black cowboy.
Did you see this one?
Oh, yeah, this is great.
It's fantastic. We did a short stuff on black cowboys in history and how they have long been overlooked.
So if for some weird reason you don't listen to short stuffs, you should.
Yeah. We never kind of promote that, but it's just like stuff you should know, but it's shorter.
Yeah, what's your problem?
Listen. Hey, guys, my name is Don and I'm a 25 year old black cowboy from Texas.
I along with my brother am also a second generation amateur farrier as well.
My father taught us after learning the trade growing up on our family farm, then later going into horseshoeing as a side career.
When I saw your episode about blacksmithing, I was eager to hear if you mentioned farriers in it and thought I might finally write in.
Then when you came out with a black cowboy episode, all of my friends share the episode with me.
So I knew I had to write as a kid.
Our family did trail rides, rodeos and horse races nearly every weekend since leaving my hometown for college and beyond.
I've often been the first introduction to black cowboys slash farmers for most people.
There's a large community of black cowboys and farmers still surviving regardless of the systemic issues we face.
Whenever it's safe again, I'd like to invite anyone hearing this out to our annual trail ride Easter weekend to get a chance to experience the lifestyle.
Isn't that cool? Dude, I so want to do this.
So he sent a flyer too and it looks super interesting.
It does. It looks awesome.
Yeah. So they hold it over Easter weekend and you just basically go live the cowboy life for a weekend.
I love it. And it's like 10 bucks or something like that too.
Yeah. It's not like some city slicker scam.
No, Don doesn't stick it to you.
Don'll give it to you straight.
That's right. 10 bucks.
Straight shooter. He says, love the podcast really helped keep me company these last few years in the Peace Corps.
So Don is my new most interesting man in the world, I think.
He is one of the more well -rounded stuff.
You should know listeners we've heard from in a while.
Yeah. And he says, PS, yes, I did ride my horse to school.
That's amazing. Yeah.
Well, thanks a lot, Don hats off to you.
10 gallon hat even literally.
Thank you for the invite.
We may see you one of these Easter weekends on your trail ride.
And if you want to get in touch with us, you can send us an email to the stuff podcast at I heart radio .com.
stuff you should know is a production of I heart radio.
For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey friends, I'm Jessica Capshaw.
And this is Camilla Luddington.
And we have a new podcast, call it what it is.
You may know us from Graceland Memorial, but did you know that we are actually besties in real life.
And as all besties do, we navigate the highs and lows of life together, big or small, we're there.
And now here we are opening up the friendship circle to you.
Listen to call it what it is on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Welcome to Gracias Come Again.
A podcast by honey German where we get real and dive straight into Todo Lo, Akwal, Ivaral.
We're talking Musica, Los Premios, el Chisme and all things trending in my computer.
I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers.
Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us.
And it's all packed with gems, bun straight up comedy.
And that's a song that only nuestra hinting can sprinkle.
Listen to Gracias Come Again on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, I'm Bruce Bozzie.
On my podcast table for two, we have unforgettable lunch after unforgettable lunch with the best guest you could possibly ask for people like Matt Bomer, Emma Roberts, and Colin Jost Caesar salad with lobster.
Yeah. Whoa. Our second season is airing right now so you can catch up on our conversations that are intimate and often hilarious.
Listen to table for two with Bruce Bozzie on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
