welcome to our second drink of customer survey and not to toot our own horn But here I go.
This is a fantastic episode, lady.
It is.
It really actually is.
Yes.
Stephen Merchant joins us on the podcast.
It's such a fun interview.
He shares how we met Ricky Gervais and then how they came to co-create the UK version of The Office.
And then we, of course, ask him all about directing this hilarious episode.
And he shares the inspiration for that amazing butt licker scene.
And when we asked you all what your favorite scene was from this episode, so many of you wrote in to say that it was the butt licker scene.
For example, Miranda D from Australia said And I'll see you next time gets so lost in the bit, especially because Michael is showing his love of improv.
Yes, and Arena E from Los Angeles says Office ladies.
I have been a listener since the beginning and I love everything about the show.
Thank you, Arena.
And she goes on to say I finally decided to go back to the first drinks of the show so I could submit all the questions I'm always thinking of when I listen.
I have been waiting for this episode to get to second drinks so I could tell you this.
My husband and I find the line, butt licker, our prices have never been lower.
So funny.
So you know how sometimes a dog will just decide to lick their butt at the most inappropriate time?
Every time our dog does this, we say to him, Rusty, have your prices never been lower?
Very confusing to anyone who doesn't get the reference, but hilarious to us every time.
Love, love, love the podcast and your incredible camaraderie with one another.
Well, Rebecca L. from Maryland wrote in to say that, first of all, Rebecca also loved the scene.
But Rebecca has a background catch.
Rebecca said, ladies, did you catch rain almost breaking in this scene?
I can see him start to laugh at eight minutes, 44 seconds in the original version.
It is right after he has to yell that the prices have never been lower.
Lady, I went and rewatched it and I totally saw it.
Rain is so clearly about to laugh and he's trying to hide his smile.
He sort of covers his mouth by like leaning onto his fist on the table.
Yes, he's doing the Mindy.
That's the Mindy move.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, everyone, we pulled a clip of the moment where rain almost breaks.
We didn't play this in our first breakdown and it's just so hilarious we thought we should hear it.
Hello?
Hello, this is Dwight Schrute from the Dunder Mifflin Paper Company.
Wow, that's great, because I need paper.
Excellent.
Then you are in luck because we are having a limited time offer only on everything.
Wow, this is my lucky day.
Ask him his name.
What is your name, sir?
I am Bill Butlicker.
Really?
That's your real name?
How dare you?
My family built this country, by the way.
Be respectful, Dwight, please.
Yes, Michael.
What?
No, but I... Hello?
No, I'm just on the phone with this stupid salesman.
He's so dumb.
Probably just going to keep him on the line forever and not buy anything.
Okay, it's up to you to change his mind.
Sorry, that was a family emergency.
Oh no, what's wrong?
You know what?
That's private.
Boundaries, Dwight.
Come on.
I'm sorry, Mr. Buttlicker.
As I was saying, we are having a limited... Speak up a little bit louder.
I'm hard of hearing.
He's hard of hearing.
He's an old man.
Okay.
As I was saying, right now, we are having... Yeah, talk louder.
Okay.
Our prices have never been lower.
Son, you have to talk louder.
Never been lower.
Louder, son!
Buttlicker!
Our prices have never been lower!
Stop it!
Stop it!
That is totally inappropriate.
You never yell at the client.
Now you listen to me, sir.
It's so good.
So good.
Well, Rebecca, we love that background catch and the journey it took us on.
And I have another background catch, but this one is actually from the cold open scene.
You know, when everyone gathers around to ask Michael how he proposed to Holly, and then Michael spins this crazy yarn.
Yes.
We actually played the clip in our breakdown because it's so funny.
But Dylan Q from Annapolis, Maryland pointed out something really interesting.
Quote in the cold open.
Michael says that he gave his girlfriend the Heimlich maneuver because he's CPR trained.
But a few episodes later, the whole office received CPR training and Michael clearly has no idea how this training works.
Was this because customer survey was supposed to come after stress relief, or do you ladies, think it was just a mistake?
I've been listening since day one.
Your breakdowns used to make me feel like I was watching The Office while I was at work.
Well, first of all, Dylan, this is a very, very good catch.
Like a plus catch.
Yeah.
I went back.
I looked at the dates on our shooting drafts for both customer survey and stress relief.
For customer survey, it was September 10th.
For stress relief, it was December 17th.
So the answer is no.
Stress relief was never going to come out before customer survey.
Yeah, I think it was just a blip.
You know, they just missed it.
They missed it.
But Dylan didn't miss it.
Dylan's paying attention.
Well, thanks you guys so much for writing in.
We really love this episode and we think you will too.
So here's our breakdown of customer I'm Jenna Fisher.
And I'm Angela Kinsey.
We were on The Office together.
And we're best friends.
And now we're doing the Ultimate Office rewatch podcast just for you.
Each week we will break down an episode of The Office and give exclusive behind-the-scenes stories that only two people who were there can tell you.
We're The Office Ladies.
Oh boy, this is a good episode of Office Ladies today.
I'm so excited for you guys to hear it.
I'm excited to listen to it.
I'm going to listen to it over and over and over again.
We're listening to ourselves right now.
Today we're going to be talking about Customer Survey.
It is Season 5, Episode 7.
It was written by Lester Lewis. and directed by Stephen Merchant.
The Stephen Merchant.
Come on, you guys listening, you know who Stephen Merchant is.
Yeah, creator of The British Office.
Come on.
We got to talk to him, you guys.
I was supposed to wait until Fastback 2, but I can't wait.
I can't wait.
We tried really hard to keep it together.
We couldn't do it.
We couldn't do it.
All right.
We'll still go through the motions.
Summary.
Jim and Dwight received poor customer surveys and they joined forces to uncover why.
Were they really bad?
Is something going on?
Yeah, a little bit of a whodunit.
Whodunit.
Meanwhile, Pam and Jim communicate all day long via teeny tiny Bluetooth earpieces and Andy and Angela make some wedding plan decisions.
Oh, yes, they do.
They get the best dentist in all the land.
They do.
I loved that so much.
We got them.
We got them.
We got them.
All right, fast fact number one.
We shot this episode the week of September 8, 2008.
It was our 79th episode overall.
And I got curious, like how many episodes of Office Ladies have we done?
Oh my gosh.
How many have we done?
This is our 83rd.
You're kidding.
That's bonkers, right?
Wow.
We're like zeroing in on the big 100 in both cases.
Can we have a party?
I think we can.
Sam, can we have a party?
We sure can.
Thank you, Sam.
Sam, you can be head of the PPC for Office Ladies.
This has become a task for me.
I mean, you got the coolest Christmas tree this year.
Come on.
That is very true.
You're head of the PPC.
You had to ask Sam if we could have a party because...
He's like the one person who's going to come.
We don't have very many people that work on Office Ladies.
If Sam's not down, then we don't have much of a party.
Pretty much it's Sam and Cassie.
Cody, will you stop by?
Maybe Colin?
Yeah.
We got to get Ileana in.
Oh, and Marissa.
Yeah.
Those are our peeps.
And we still need to have Take Your Kid to Work Day, because my kids really want to come in the studio.
We were just talking about it on the drive to school today about how they want to come because summer break.
Oh, let's get them in here.
Yeah.
Okay, wait.
This is a big episode.
We'll chitty chat later.
All right.
We'll figure that out later.
Fast fact number two, Stephen Merchant directed this episode.
What?
So he and Ricky Gervais created The British Office.
It ran on BBC Two for two seasons.
They were six episodes each, and then they did a two-part Christmas special.
They wrote and directed all of the episodes themselves.
Yes.
They would sit together with a dictaphone, right?
And they would talk out scenes and then transcribe them.
They wrote the whole series, just the two of them.
And then they let us make an American version.
And then Stephen directed this episode.
And then he agreed to come on our podcast.
Oh, my goodness.
I mean, wow.
To prep us before we listen to the interview, I thought we should go over a few facts about the British office and the American office.
Oh, I like it.
Okay, so...
The British office was set at a paper company called Wernham Hog, and it was located in Slough.
The building that they used for the exterior of their show.
It was located on Slough Trading Estate and it was called the Crossbow House.
But they tore it down in 2013.
Oh.
So you can't visit it.
When we do our England tour of office locations.
We're not going to be able to see that one.
Well, we might just have to go to the spot.
Yeah.
We'll point to the spot.
Okay.
That'll be a great photo.
You know what?
I'll put it in our scrapbook.
Dunder Mifflin, on the other hand, was located in Scranton, and the exterior of our building was and still is located at Chandler Valley Studios on Saticoy Street in Van Nuys, California.
You can take a picture with that one.
You can.
But as a nod to the British series, the address of Dunder Mifflin is listed as 1725 Slough Avenue.
I know.
I always love that.
It's so sweet.
So sweet.
It's even on like the fakey business cards.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Like Michael Scott had business cards.
I might have taken one.
I might have stolen one.
It has that address.
Well, we will talk more about these two companies. when we speak with Stephen.
Should we get to it?
Well, I have one more fast fact.
Oh my Lord.
Okay, let's do it.
I know, I know.
I'm so excited.
Fast fact number three.
This episode was written by Lester Lewis.
Oh, yes.
And I found an interview with Lester where he talked a little bit about what it was like knowing that an episode he had written was going to be directed by Stephen Merchant.
Oh, I love it.
Can I hear it?
Yes.
So he said that the story for this episode was already in place before Stephen was attached to direct.
So as he was writing it, luckily he had no idea that like one of them.
Yes.
I wouldn't want that in my head.
I would just want to like write what I was going to write without any pressure.
Yes.
But then he was so nervous when he found out.
Because, you know, the writer gets to walk around with the director for the whole week.
They're together the whole time.
It's like a very close relationship.
Yeah.
I mean, I would be pooping my pants.
Yeah, a little bit.
But he said any nervousness that he felt totally disappeared when he met Stephen and that Stephen participated in the final rewrites of the script.
He wished that Stephen Merchant could be with us for every single episode.
Well, that's so sweet.
Well, I couldn't agree more with that.
I know.
I know.
His energy is just fantastic.
So smart, so funny, and so kind.
Yeah.
Well Jenna, later when we break down the episode.
I have a little story I want to share about Lester, because he rescued me in a scene.
He really did.
But now we're going to take a break.
And when we come back, Stephen Merchant.
I can't believe it.
I can't believe it.
Stephen, hello.
Hi.
Well, I feel like I should say hello, office ladies.
Oh, hi.
Thank you.
I love that.
I don't know if you've noticed, in honor of both the British and the UK versions of The Office, I am wearing my Wernham Hogg baseball cap, which is um, which is the dunder mifflin of the uk, and then but, i have my dunder mifflin mug, which i believe was a crew gift, for my cup of tea.
So um, you know, i'm just trying to pay homage to both, both sides of the atlantic and both shows.
You're awesome, we are so awesome, we love that so much.
Well, let's see to kick things off, I thought that and I'm sure you've been asked this a million times, Stephen about meeting Ricky for the first time.
But the reason I bring it up is because you mentioned Angela and I, we're rocking a duo.
You're part of this duo with Ricky.
But there are these people who, when we meet them, they just change the course of our lives.
I think back to, you know, Lennon meets McCartney, right?
Like, what is that?
Wow, I'm already an amazing company.
This is exciting.
Jenna, as you said that, I'm like, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.
Wow.
When we sat next to each other in the basketball episode, I didn't realize the impact I was going to have on you.
That was our Lyndon McCartney moment, Angela.
Oh, wow.
So Stephen, I know that you went into interview for a job to be Ricky's assistant at a radio station.
You walk in the door.
You meet this man.
Did you feel it?
Was there a spark?
Was there a shift in the universe?
Well, it was interesting because, as you say, I did indeed go into a building to meet him.
But he very quickly said, let's go to the pub for a pint of beer.
Oh, my God.
There aren't many bosses that do that.
He was hiring me for the job.
So I was immediately charmed by that.
I thought that sort of seemed like the right approach.
And we went down the road and had a pint and we got chatting.
And we seem to have a lot of sort of common loves of things like music and comedy and stuff.
So we hit it off in that regard.
But then he said something to me which i i think was revealing.
He said listen, i this was a radio station where we were both going to work.
And he said listen, i don't know anything about radio.
I've sweet talked my way into this job.
I don't know what i'm doing and and you seem to have had a little radio experience if you do all the work, i'll make sure you have fun, And I, in need of a job, thought that sounds like a fair deal.
And so I joined the station with Ricky as essentially my boss.
And true to his word, he did not know what he was doing.
But we managed to find a sort of working relationship.
And after a little while...
We were behind the scenes guys, but after a little while they realized that our better asset was being on the radio.
And once we went on the radio and we started talking and being kind of presenters, kind of like you guys, that was when I think we're all starting to make more sense.
And I think that was where our, if you like, our sense of humor and our relationship with each other and our rapport.
I think that's where it really began to develop, sort of on the radio.
And then from then it was sort of, you know, it was plain sailing really, you know, and we just, and so much of what we, our experience, so much of sort of getting to know someone that you end up working with in that way is, I think, just as I'm sure you guys discovered.
It's just finding all the things you have in common.
And I suppose the things you don't like, And sort of deciding that these are the movies we like, these are the comedy we like, this is what we don't.
And I think that so much of the initial sort of partnering was, that was, finding that stuff, that common grain.
Oh man, that is such a great story.
And also I feel like something Angela and I have discovered in working together is like our strengths and weaknesses and how
And our differences in our work, we both have strong work ethics, but we work differently.
What do you think were some of those things that made you and Ricky a good duo?
Well, I think I was a little younger than Ricky.
And so I had a sort of youthful ambition.
And I kind of get up and go sort of dynamism.
And at the time we were working this radio show and then I would go off and do stand up comedy in the evenings and things, whereas Ricky would sort of be home eating cheese with his girlfriend by sort of you know 6 pm, and I think you know he was older and he'd sort of settled into a certain groove and I think I had this kind of eagerness to sort of make my stamp on the world and I think.
But at the same time I think what Ricky had was just a sort of untapped kind of explosive brilliance that was just sort of waiting to be, to be sort of mined, you know, and I think I had this slightly more kind of structured, slightly more rigid approach to things.
And I think it was his sort of his wild spontaneity and my kind of slightly more, you know, by the book approach, I think, kind of bringing those two things together sort of work.
Well, you know, and i was able to kind of chaperone him through some of the more boring bits of writing, if you like, the working of the plots and all those sort of things whereas, but at the same time he had a kind of he was just sort of um smart, he was just wise about people and about you know, he just he was just older and so there was a big brother quality to him that that he could bring to as well.
So it was just a really interesting dynamic.
We sort of supported each other and we kind of, i think, sparked each other's creativity in different ways.
It was just a very exhilarating sort of time in both our lives.
I think steven, you're my, jenna you're my.
There you go.
That's what i was gonna say.
I'm you Steven, I'm the structure and the tasks, and Angela is the boom boom.
I'm like, let's go grab a pint.
Let's bounce some ideas off.
And I'm like, I'll get a pint with you, but I'm bringing a notebook.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, I remember meeting you for the first time when you came to the set of The Office early, early.
Jenna, where was that?
Where did where did you guys meet?
Was it the original Culver City set?
Wasn't it?
Stephen, do you remember?
I definitely think it was it was a season one.
Yeah, and we weren't on those sound stages yet, right?
We were in an actual office building.
That's right.
It was a real office above a real factory.
Is that right?
Or a real warehouse?
Above a real warehouse.
Yeah.
And didn't you guys, Stephen?
When you filmed the BBC version, weren't you in an actual office building as well?
Weren't they like people working on the other side of the wall?
That's very, that's absolutely true.
Although bizarrely, we were within a studio complex, a small British TV studio, but we were not in the studio.
We were in an actual office building. in the studio complex.
And yes, as you say there were, there were people sort of who were kind of annoyed by the noise we were making and we're trying to get on with a job of work and we were there kind of, you know, running around and making noise and doing funny dances and whatever else.
So um yeah, so it was definitely very much a real office and it had all of the the um, the pros and cons of that.
I suppose that it was, it felt real.
And we wanted it to feel very lived in.
And we wanted it to.
We always wanted our version of the office to feel like a documentary that had sort of been made.
And then everyone forgot about it.
And it was just on a shelf somewhere at the BBC for like 10 years.
And someone dusted it off and was like, put this on TV.
So we wanted the whole thing to feel tired.
The office should feel tired.
The people should the clothes.
We always were very excited when the plants that they had on the set were slightly dying.
We liked that idea.
It was the british, that british approach, you know you reflect the weather by just making shows that are depressing and um, and that was what that office had.
It had a slightly tired feel because it had been a real place.
Um, and it's somehow slightly harder to create that artificially.
When you build a set, you know, you're always striving for that.
So it had that nice, lived in quality but but obviously also restrictive to shoot in and a little bit difficult and you know, and not much elbow room and um, you know, so it was pros and cons right, our camera guys have talked about that.
Where we filmed the original, you know, set in culver city was an actual office, so no walls moved and you couldn't pop anything out and and that really just added to the authenticity.
But that's that's where you guys met.
You guys met for the pilot, maybe jen, or the table read.
I remember doing guys.
Gosh, I mean, and then I remember we ordered some food and had some lunch and just.
Yes.
But I think you were maybe shooting by then.
Were we?
Maybe shooting.
I have a photo from that time which feels like you're on the set and everybody's kind of I'm sure you're maybe working.
And we were up and running by the time we actually visited.
I felt like a lot of what we did initially was remote.
I know that Greg Daniels came and visited us in England and we sat with him for a couple of days and we sort of chewed the fat and tried to talk about how, tried to give him a better insight into why we had chosen certain things for the British version and how they might translate to America and what the versions, what the equivalents would be in America.
And it was fascinating to me because there were things which we assumed would be the same all over the world.
For instance, the idea of a group of people in an office going to a pub quiz is quite a traditional idea here.
You'd go to a trivia night you know, as a group.
And that I remember at the time it felt like Greg.
That wasn't as familiar to Greg, the idea of kind of the trivia night or the quiz night.
And I guess maybe they are more common now, but I don't know that that was as, and it's interesting.
It was when they did a version in France.
It turns out that apparently on Friday night um, at the end of the working day on a friday, the champagne comes out in an office, you know where, i guess in france, i think.
Champagne is just like water.
In france it's just everywhere, and i just thought it was fun.
You know just these interesting, you know variations.
Yeah, how many different countries Is the office in now?
There was a French version.
There was a French Canadian version.
There was an Israeli version.
There was, I believe, an Indian version.
And I think there's a South American version, but I forget where exactly in South America.
But it was frustrating because they would send us copies of these but of course none of them had subtitles.
So it was just speaking in their local languages, and I have no idea whether it was good or bad.
It's got to just be so amazing Stephen, when you take a moment and sit in that, that you went and grabbed a pint with this guy.
And all these years later, this idea that the two of you had is everywhere.
It's everywhere.
It's got to be just so humbling.
It's like COVID-19.
Oh, no.
Yeah no, it's no.
I know what you mean, but I think yes, but I think also what's exciting about that and I think particularly when you guys began your version was that you know, we always were a fan of our show, but we could never watch it as an audience watches it, because we were too immersed in it.
We were there, we'd written it and we were just too involved and we couldn't get any distance from it.
Whereas I remember when they would send the seasons of your show, the episodes of your show.
I could watch it like a fan.
It was like, I was like, I'm just enjoying it as a fan and not as a creator in the same way.
You know what I mean?
It's very, very pleasurable.
It's like you get to design your ideal show and then go off and have talented people make it and send it to you.
You know what I mean?
It's like an amazing, you won a competition.
You design a show and then talented people make it for you. many, many years?
One of my favorite experiences was after we filmed the pilot.
I was in London And you and Ricky grabbed drinks with me at is it called the Groucho Club?
That's right.
Yeah.
Okay.
And that was just so exciting.
But then I was on the tube and I picked up what was like your version of TV Guide and And I looked in there and there was an article about how America was going to ruin the office.
And there was a little picture of my face in a bubble comparing me to Lucy Davis.
And there were bubbles of all our faces talking about how we...
It's specifically outlining how we were each going to ruin the show.
Yeah, I put it in a scrapbook.
Let me tell you right now Jenna, what really happened was Ricky and I had that manufactured specially placed on the tube, planted on the tube in order to really make you buck up your ideas and do a good job.
But it's funny.
You should say that because I remember that when it was first being discussed, as you say, there were a lot of things about oh, America are going to ruin the show.
And then there was when your show started airing in the UK.
It was kind of Oh, it's not as good as the British version.
And then over time, it's become the American version is far superior to the British version.
This is the British.
This is the way we do things here.
You know what I mean?
We're like we we kind of build you up and then we knock you down.
And and so yeah, now very much, the American version is kind of the much loved version, even by the British, the British press.
And Ricky and I are seen as kind of, oh, those guys.
We're tired of those guys.
No, no.
It's amazing.
It's amazing.
Maybe it'll come full circle.
Well, I remember meeting you guys on the new set when we moved, you know, way deep in the valley Chandler Valley Studios.
And I'll never forget because you guys were coming for lunch and we were all super excited.
And I think by now, the supporting cast, we were we were actually we had real contracts.
So I think I was a little braver to like come up and say hi, because maybe no one would fire me now because I was locked in.
And you guys, we're going through the food line.
And the assistant director came up to me and said Angela, you're the first talking head up after lunch.
And Ricky and Steven will be here.
And I just went.
No, I just got the courage to say hi.
Please don't make me do a talking head in front of them.
And Ricky said, oh, don't worry.
I don't tsk too loudly.
And he did his finger.
And I was like, ah. and then sort of broke into a cold sweat.
But um, it was.
I hope though, that we, I hope ultimately, you know I I, I think we, we always ultimately tried to be supportive of.
We were kind of aware that it was like there was this I think, just because we had British accents and we'd come from a long way away, it was like the Queen had come to visit.
And we were aware of that.
And I think trying to kind of, you know, make sure people realized we weren't here to judge or be mean.
Oh, no, you guys were great.
We were just abuzz about having you guys the set.
And then when you came I guess you know we're talking about customer survey this week when you came to the set and I read that you were in the writer's room for weeks before we actually shot.
Yes, yes, absolutely.
Yeah, and we always ask people how they got their job on The Office.
I think we know you started by creating, but how did you end up directing this particular episode?
Do you remember?
Well, I think, whenever I had visited because I used to kind of visit whenever I was in LA, sometimes with Ricky and sometimes without
And I, and I tried to come, you know, once a season and stop by.
And I was always very, I just loved being in the writer's room.
Because in you've got to remember, in the UK, you know, Ricky and I wrote the show together and it was just us.
And I, We didn't do a lot of episodes, but it felt like a lot of hard work.
And it was just the two of us in this sort of cold London, little tiny office.
And whereas when you come to an American writing room there's so many people and it's just a really buzzy, exciting atmosphere.
You're just with a lot of very talented, very smart people.
Ideas are sort of pinging around.
And it's a very different experience to the British experience.
And I always loved that.
I was just always a fan of being in that environment.
And so I think there had been conversations with Greg about sort of directing an episode and it just never worked out schedule-wise, or I was always doing something with Ricky or I was doing something else in the UK.
For whatever reason, I had that little window of time.
So I think, in a sense, that particular episode was the one that was up and when I could slot it in.
But I had those few weeks ahead of it, and I just thought, well, I love being in the writing room.
I love being in that sort of environment.
Let me come over and just absorb that.
And I'm sort of really glad I did, because I felt like I was able to contribute to the script of that episode.
And again, like I say, I just really had a blast just seeing how it worked and seeing the ideas bouncing around the room, seeing how one idea becomes another and how jokes are improved.
And like I say, not something I'd really experienced in the UK.
So it was a learning curve for me as much as it was a job, if you like.
And do you remember any pitches from the room?
I know there's one scene, the Mr. Butlicker scene.
Right.
That was loosely based off a situation you had at a job where you had to do the train up, right?
That's right.
That's right.
I was working at a call center answering phones and we had to have training for a week beforehand.
And one of the things we had to do was one person went in one room and called another trainee and one was the customer and one was the the person working at the call center and i figured the In order to maximize this and kind of get the most out of it, I thought it would be useful to be sort of a challenging customer, you know, a little bit difficult or ask difficult questions or go quiet sometimes just because that's what I wanted to learn because it's figured, you know, you're never going to be able to just follow a script that someone always is going to be kind of difficult.
So I started playing difficult customers for the other trainee.
So I would be a little angry or whatever it would be.
And eventually the guy in charge of the training took me aside and said I can't have you do this anymore, because you're upsetting the other trainees with your characters and with your questions and with your attitude.
And anyway.
So I'd always been very amused by that idea that in the course of that sort of training you'd get so into the role that you'd sort of it would overtake the training.
Yeah.
So I raised that as an idea.
It just seemed like a funny idea to have Jim kind of. deliberately needling Dwight in that way.
And some of the writers went off and came back with that scene.
And I really was so happy with that.
I thought it was absolutely fantastic.
I thought it was a really funny spin on that idea.
I thought that when we shot it, I thought the three guys were just fantastic.
I loved the fact that It was sort of longer than a lot of scenes are traditionally in in the show.
That it just, it could, just we could just sit in that moment.
And I think it's in a way it sort of escalates.
And and I just I thought everyone kind of knocked out the park.
And I'm sure there was a version of that that we shot, where either Steve or or I think I think it was Steve at the end just said we got the butt licker account.
Um, which I don't think we could ever squeeze into the finished cut, but there was a lot of sort of fun little improvs around the edges.
And yeah, I just think when there's a sort of when there's three great performers and a really funny idea like that sort of given free reign, it's so thrilling to be there as a director and watch it happen.
And that was, I just thought I was so satisfied with that, with that scene.
It's so great.
It's so great.
Well, Jenna, do you remember?
I remember Stephen, when you were on set we did rehearse scenes and we had sort of been rehearsing for technical, for camera.
But I felt like when you were there we rehearsed really sort of the meat of the scene and walked through the scene.
And I loved it.
I had a few scenes with Andy and I had that scene with Dwight.
You know where Basically, we're going to get married on fruit farms and I'm so happy and we're flirting and it's very weird.
But we rehearsed and I wish that we had done more of that.
And was that part of your routine when you guys filmed in England?
Were you rehearsing scenes before you shot them?
We were.
And I think also...
What I think I probably brought with me, which was perhaps a bit unnecessary, was I think I was still slightly hung up with this obsession with the kind of realism of what we tried to do.
And not that your show wasn't realistic, but I think Ricky and I had become very obsessed about realism and naturalism and what was real and what might happen and what might not happen.
And and I think actually it was a sort of unnecessary obsession, because in the end it's a TV show.
And you know, it's just, you just do what's the funniest and smart thing to do, and so I guess I was bringing with me this sort of this.
We must, we must get to the truth of it, you know, and it's kind of like wait a minute, aren't they wearing tiny little bluetooth headsets that don't exist?
Like why am I so hung up on on the realism of this, you know?
And so I think I was probably bringing an unnecessary obsession with that which I transposed from our version.
And it's funny because even when I look back at our version, it's not realistic.
I mean, there's lots of completely absurd moments.
But for whatever reason, we got that in our head.
So I think probably I was bringing a bit of that to it.
And I think what I hadn't anticipated is just that you guys were so in a groove by that point that you didn't need rehearsal, you didn't need directing.
You know you could do it just standing on your head.
You knew the characters way better than me and you were just, you could just slip in and out of it so kind of effortlessly that you just didn't need that, that sort of that, that rehearsal or that kind of, you know, attention to detail, whatever it is.
You know you could just i could have just left you to do it and come back after lunch, and you know.
So i think it was just like i say it was.
Again, i think it's just slight naivety in a way about having not done you know, american shows, particularly long running shows, where at some point the cast are just so in sync with the show and the characters they don't really need directing.
I agree with you that we were sort of like we were a machine at this time season five.
But for me and Jenna and I and the cast have talked about this when we did rehearse with you, it sort of grounded us back down and got us back into character.
And not that we would step out of character, because we could, like you said, we could go right to Angela Martin.
I know her, right?
Yeah.
But I don't know for us as actors.
We got really into it because it allowed us to, You know, like not to sound too actor-y but have the moment.
That's the craft, right?
And feel like you're really part of a production and kind of remind ourselves oh yeah, we're here to do this really cool thing show.
That's a mockumentary.
And I don't know, I geeked out about it, Jenna.
No, I agree with you, Angela, because by this time it was season five.
And, you know, at a certain point, it can feel like a comedy factory, a comedy TV show factory.
And we never wanted that.
And we We did always try to come back to that place of authenticity.
And when you came in in this season and really reminded us of that...
I thought there was such a value in it.
And then also, I was so grateful that you directed this episode Stephen, because it ends with this big Jim Pam Alex art school guy scene.
You talked about the tiny Bluetooth that actually did not work.
They didn't exist at the time.
They were like completely like made up, right?
Yes.
It's funny, isn't it now?
Because you know now, with the airpods and these other things, you know, they're kind of standard issue, aren't they really?
But at the time that just seemed such a kind of.
That was probably something I was probably hung up on at the time.
I was like, what is this?
Is this a thing?
Yeah.
Can these exist?
And not only that, they probably would have been really expensive because no one had them.
Yes.
And so we would be shooting these scenes.
And it would either be like an A.D. reading the lines.
So you'd be shooting John's side and I'm either off camera saying my lines so he can hear me, or it was an AD reading the lines.
But in that last scene in particular, when Alex comes in to Pam at corporate and Jim can hear him giving her this pitch that she should not leave New York.
I.
We spent hours on that.
I mean, it felt like a whole day we spent on that.
And the script had like seven alternates to that scene.
It was bonkers.
Didn't one, Jenna, wasn't he like professing that he actually wanted to be in a relationship with you?
Didn't, wasn't like there a huge spectrum of like what Alex was going to say to you?
Yes, it was that either the plea was.
He actually had a line where he said It's always been you Pam.
Oh, I mean, that's heavy.
And and then there was this whole other version where he had no feelings for me.
He was just really invested in my artistic life.
And we were just.
But did we shoot different versions?
I can't because I remember the discussion about that and I.
And I feel like I was, it seemed odd to me, the kind of big declaration of love.
For some reason, I was uncomfortable with that.
But what you've got to remember as well is I wasn't entirely up to speed on what had already been being built within the season, because obviously I'd only come in for that one episode.
But there was something for me that disquieted me about the declaration of love.
I think partly because i i i think it was something.
Whenever the kind of jim and pam relationship is threatened, particularly once you've got together, I kind of it just makes me uncomfortable.
It's like, it's like knowing, it's like your parents kind of the idea that your parents might get a divorce.
It's sort of, I'm not, I just, it makes me sad.
The kind of threat, the threat to the relationship just makes me sad.
And so the idea, I don't know.
I was worried that it was a sort of artificial jeopardy, like it didn't really count because there was no way that you were going to leave jim and so therefore we were sort of creating a phony drama, but but that might be my missed memory, i don't remember.
Was it nailed down by the time we filmed it?
Do you remember?
I do remember the version where he professes his love was in the script.
And John and I felt like you did.
We thought, where is this coming from?
We don't need this obstacle.
And the one that appears in the show was an alternate version.
And so when we got to set, we were so excited that you were on our side and we could be like guys.
Stephen Merchant, creator of the whole thing, thinks we're right.
But it was still like this discussion and.
I feel like for a while we tried to do this Frankenstein version where there was a little bit of his feelings and a little bit of art school.
But ultimately, I'm so glad that we picked the one that was picked.
But having watched the show again in anticipation of this, it's a little odd that he declares, like you say, he's so invested in your art school.
Because it feels like when he comes into the office, that's right.
He comes into your office, wherever you're working, in order to kind of have a word with you.
And that definitely feels like he's going to declare his love, because probably we filmed it thinking that was what was going to happen.
And then by the time he gets into the little side room with you, he's like man, you've got to stick with that art.
And it's kind of, yeah, it's a little, it's still probably a little Frankenstein-y.
Well, it's also slightly out of the blue because we ended up cutting so much of my art school which, at the time when we filmed this, we didn't know that scenes with Alex, and he had given me a couple of art pep talks already, but they never made it.
So-
It is a little jarring, but it sets up a really nice story for Pam and Jim, which is that you know what does the art really mean to her.
What did this New York experience mean to her?
And, you know, and this is going to kind of haunt her for a while.
And that that part I like about the scene.
Yeah, you're right.
You agree.
And I think yes, it's the idea of do you pursue a particular dream or do you be with the person you love?
And the two things pulling at each other is an interesting idea.
Yeah.
Well, I watched this episode again last night with my tweens, my 13-year-olds.
And just when Alex says, hey, can I talk to you?
Just that, like the fact that he went to Dunder Mifflin Corporate and sought her out to have a private conversation.
They were like whoa.
So to me, it was a reminder that you don't have to do much to really convey emotion.
And yes, Alex is saying you've got to.
Give your art a shot.
You can't do New York in three months.
But it's clearly about so much more.
And Jim can hear that.
Jim knows.
It's that dude thing when he's like, oh, he's into you.
And so for me, it was everything we needed.
We didn't need anything more.
There was something in the script that didn't make it in, that made me laugh, which is that, while Alex is talking, Jim says cough, if you still love me,
And I cough.
Oh, that would have been great.
Again, I don't want to take credit for things that weren't mine, but I feel like maybe I'm wrong about this, but my instinct is that the little sort of tag on that when, when Dwight recognizes the brand of Bluetooth in Jim's ear, I feel like I had some contribution to that.
Cause I felt like I felt like the scene originally maybe just ended with the sort of the kind of dot dot dot and the drama of it.
And I felt like it needed a little conclusion or something to just kind of take away from the, from the sort of emotion of it or the drama of it or something.
And also sort of slightly resolve the Bluetooth idea.
Yeah, that wasn't in the script, Stephen.
Oh, it wasn't?
It was not.
So that was clearly like an on-the-day thing.
A pitch, yeah.
I also loved the reveal of the coffee mugs and how in fact, they had not gone to Kelly's party and how that's.
This is built within the episode.
And you talked a little bit on the DVD commentary how you were so invested in shooting this coffee mug reveal.
I was quite excited because there was a sort of mystery element.
And I quite like that.
It's funny, the project I'm working on at the moment has a sort of thrillery element to it.
It's the first time I've done that.
And that little taster on the office of just sort of Jim as the detective kind of piecing things together, was very pleasing to me and sort of seeing the Columbo, you know, seeing the evidence and kind of the mind working.
I don't know why.
I find that very, very fun and sort of yes up, sort of seeding the cups early on, and then the kind of the sort of when jim looks around the room and he sees the mugs on the different desks and then he rushes to the off.
You know just the idea of it having a little bit of a a sort of you know uh, like a kind of little bit of a sort of thrillery um ncis quality to it.
Whatever, i just find that that was fun, it was a kind of nice, it was a different kind of energy which i which i found very pleasing to do.
I remember i took my mug.
I have it smart, why not?
I would hope that you've got all of your memorabilia from the show and it's just in a giant warehouse somewhere.
I didn't get a mug.
I was at art school.
Yeah, you were at art school.
Oh well Stephen, this was so great to reminisce about this episode with you and just reminisce with you in general.
Is there anything else that you would want to share?
Well, the only thing that occurred to me as I was watching it the other night, the thing that I was suddenly reminded of and I'm sure this was a trick that was used a great deal in your show
And I and I certainly we'd used it in our version.
But I remember there's a moment where Michael calls Jim in for his kind of customer survey appraisal.
And the camera kind of whips from Jim at his desk to Michael in his office doorway.
And then it whips back again to Jim at his desk.
And I remembered watching it again.
I was suddenly reminded that those were those were shot on two different days and that Steve had to leave for whatever reason.
And we didn't have him for that following day.
And so we shot him in the doorway and we whipped the camera off him.
And then the following day we whipped back onto um to what john at his desk, and then tied the two together in the in the editing room.
So it looks like it's happening for in real time and um and i was just watching it kind of and i was very pleased at how effective it was when i watched it again because i realized hopefully only me and the editor know that's what happened there.
I would have no idea.
Yeah yeah, it was very.
It was a very satisfying little trick.
I remember randall Talking about the whip cut, that this was their trick because because of you couldn't so much of our footage is like a one or docu style camera work.
It was really hard to cut.
But if you did a whip, you could cut in a whip.
And that was the way that they would be able to use two versions of a scene or something.
That's right, absolutely right.
And it's very satisfying to do because it's sort of somehow you're playing a little trick on the audience and they don't realise.
I don't know why that's so satisfying.
Well, I was just going to say, over the course of the whole series you were such a champion for Jim and Pam.
And I remember that so much.
It was.
You know we talked about how that was true in this episode, but all the way to the end, you were always so invested in them.
And I just say thank you because your voice in the writer's room was really meaningful.
So thank you.
Well, thank you.
And thank you for such an amazing job and congratulations with your podcast.
And I also.
I wouldn't mind just saying a final thought, which was just about Lester, who wrote that episode, who you know, Lester Lewis, who so tragically died a few years after that.
And I only, you know, knew him for that for that one episode.
And that was the only time I'd worked with him, but he was such a lovely man.
And I just you know, and that's sort of whenever I think of that episode, it's kind of tinged with that bit of sweet.
You know that bit of sweet aftertaste, if you like.
So yeah, a little reminder to him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We love Lester so much.
Well, Stephen, I just want to say thank you.
I mean, I feel like everyone in our cast was just humbled that we got this job.
We all felt like we won the lottery ticket.
And you gave us that lottery ticket, you and Ricky, and you forever changed our lives.
I'm the person that's quick to laugh and quick to tear up.
And what you gave us and how you changed our lives and our families just from having this idea.
I don't know.
I will never be able to say thank you enough.
So thank you.
Well, that's very sweet of you.
But again, I think Ricky and I feel very proud of our version, but also of the American version.
I think for me.
I grew up watching and loving American shows and I was hooked on, you know mash, and then cheers, and then rosanne, and then the idea of sort of having my fingerprints on a show like yours which, which stands in the lineage of those shows and is now as beloved by audiences as that as those shows, it's just incredible and that's a testament to you guys and all the cast and all the crew and all the writers.
It's far, it's gone way beyond what ricky and i did.
It's like you mentioned about frankenstein earlier.
But you know, to us we've always thought of the office as it's like frankenstein's monster and we kind of created this thing in the lab and it went off and rampaged around the world and on its own, you know, without us, and um, and the idea that this show is having this kind of this sort of whole second life and, you know, audiences finding it again, i just think it's, It's such a thrill and an honor to be associated with it.
So thank you.
And will you tell us a little bit about the show that you're working on now, The Offenders?
Yeah.
No, no, goodbye.
Oh, dear.
Come on.
Well, it's interesting because it's a show that is about people doing – community service.
You know, when you get like a DUI or some minor crime and instead of sending you to jail, they give you 120 hours of picking up garbage at the side of the road or whatever.
And my parents used to be my parents didn't.
They did not do DUIs they, they were people that were in charge of of offenders that did these uh, did these days, and I just thought it was always an interesting idea to a good way of bringing a completely disparate group of people together.
And interestingly it has parallels with the office in that regard, because you know, like with an office, those people only know each other because they work in that same environment and they fall in love and they hate each other and they fight and argue.
And it's the only thing that kind of keeps them together is because of that job and those four walls.
And this was sort of a similar, you know idea in a way is that although it has a bit more of a of a dramatic thrillery spine, the jumping off point is again how do you bring an interesting bunch of characters together that wouldn't otherwise meet and sort of watch the the sparks fly?
And so um, so it shares some DNA with the office in that regard.
But um, But yes, we're sort of in the middle of filming it now and hopefully it'll be out later in the year.
And where can we find it?
BBC and Amazon Studios?
Is that right?
Amazon Prime and BBC, yes.
And its name may change at some point.
Who knows?
Maybe its cast will change.
I don't know.
But at the moment, it's called The Offenders.
Yeah.
And it's shaping up really nicely.
I'm excited.
Well, I want to throw something out there too, because I'm a big fan of your film Fighting With My Family.
Thank you.
It came out in 2019.
I discovered it during the pandemic.
It is so, so good.
You wrote and directed it.
So while you're waiting for the offenders, check out Fighting With My Family.
Thank you so much.
I'm very proud of that film.
I think it turned out really nicely, so I appreciate that.
Well, Stephen, this was just a joy.
Yes, thank you so much.
It was wonderful.
It's so great to reminisce.
It's really nice to talk about it.
If I hadn't rewatched it, I realised I'd just completely forgotten so much of that and so much of the fun of shooting it.
It was really pleasing to kind of go back and look at it again.
Well, thank you so much, Stephen.
Thank you so much for today.
Thank you guys.
Thanks so much.
Where do we go from there?
That was so great.
I don't know, Angela, but I have to tell you, I was on a high for days after we did that interview.
I know.
Here's all you need to know about Stephen Merchant, by the way.
Just the warmth and heart of this man.
He really was the champion of Tim and Don on the British show and of Jim and Pam on our show.
And if you need an example of that, just look at how he wore his Wernham Hog hat.
I know.
For a podcast.
And brought his coffee mug, his Dunder Mifflin coffee mug.
That he had tea in.
We need to send them some Office Ladies, like, merch.
We have to.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Well, should we break down this episode?
Yes, let's get to it.
This episode opens with a very funny cold open.
Dwight bursts into Michael's office to congratulate him on his engagement.
Congratulations, Michael.
And like punches him hard.
I know.
I feel like this is how my kids would congratulate you.
Like...
You aced your test.
Pow!
Like, Dwight is such a kid.
Yeah, no, it's true.
Daryl has a talking head.
He just wants to make sure we all know that what we saw last week was true that Michael is definitely not engaged.
Yeah, no.
In fact, he would help support his therapy.
Might need a little help, Michael.
Yeah, he's a little worried about him.
Well, there is a deleted scene.
Where the gang asked Michael to tell him about the proposal moment.
Oh, and Michael just starts doing that thing to know where.
He just gets deeper and deeper into.
Like a ridiculous lie.
And it's so funny.
Sam, can you play it?
You wasted.
How did I propose?
Let me see.
Well, I drove her up to Nashua and I had the ring, big 10 carat diamond, beautiful.
And I got down on my hands and knees and a shooting star crossed overhead and it just lit up, the diamond, like a shooting star.
And we were in a restaurant, and I put the diamond into a cheeseburger.
And she took a bite, started to choke.
So what do I do?
I do CPR training, go around, start doing Heimlich.
Perfect.
The ring, 10-carat diamond, pops out of her mouth.
Hits her shrimp cocktail right onto her finger.
Million to one shot.
All of the Greek people in the restaurant start screaming, which means congratulations.
What is this restaurant where they have ordered a cheeseburger and shrimp cocktail?
And they're outside with a shooting star.
And it's Greek.
And it's Greek.
You know that famous Greek shrimp cocktail.
Out under the shooting stars.
With a great cheeseburger.
I mean, I just you could just, if you get a chance, watch this deleted scene, because you see him being like, and then this happened and you know.
10 carat diamond.
Yeah, I know.
Wow.
Wowzers.
What was left in the episode is that everyone makes him call his mom and tell her the news.
And she's like, she thinks he's lying again.
And he's like, why?
Mom, come on.
A couple of things.
I don't know if you noticed.
The entire time he's on the phone with his mom, Mindy is hiding behind Phyllis's shoulder.
You can only see her forehead.
This is totally because Mindy was laughing.
Yeah, she's laughing.
Exactly.
We also had some fan questions from Sabrina, Hannah and Paul, who would like to know who voiced Michael's mom in the cold open.
This was June Squibb, who is an amazing character actress.
She was actually nominated for an Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress in 2014 for her role in the movie Nebraska.
Oh, my gosh.
She also played Jack Nicholson's wife in the movie about Schmidt.
She's so good.
So good.
She's so good.
Yeah.
Oh, we were so lucky.
Yeah, that's Michael's mom.
Well, now we're getting into the episode.
It's customer survey time.
Yeah.
Kelly brings Michael all the customer survey files and also a receipt to her bridesmaid's dress that she had bought.
That whole bit made me laugh so hard.
Well, he'll take care of it.
Oh, yeah.
He's got it.
He just crumples it up and throws it in the trash.
So the whole premise of the story is that Dwight Jim all the salespeople they have these customer surveys.
And if they do well, then they get bonuses and things like that, right?
Right.
So stakes are high.
Jen, I have a question for you.
Okay.
Do you do the customer surveys?
Like if you get a prompt on an app or an email or a receipt, or if someone calls you because you've purchased something, do you do the customer surveys?
Very rarely, but occasionally if I have a really great interaction with a salesperson.
I want to give them like a kudos.
So I will actually go home with my receipt.
You know, they usually circle it.
Right.
And then I go take the survey and I say how great they were.
This is totally why we're BFFs because I do that.
I do the surveys, you guys.
Every time?
I try to.
It's very time consuming.
It really is.
I was wondering.
We had gotten an appliance delivery, and then they do the setup and then they called to see how you liked their service, right?
I was on the phone with the guy for 45 minutes.
Saying what?
Well, I did his survey and then we just had a heart to heart.
Josh came in and was like, are you still on the phone with the dishwasher guy?
I said, I am.
I did the survey and he told me a lot of people don't do them.
Sometimes they hang up on him, or sometimes they yell at him, or sometimes they get very offended by the questions he asks.
And they're just sort of standard questions.
And I said, he was really nice guy.
I talked to him, you know, he'd had a tough few months.
This is so you.
Let me say, I do the customer surveys that are online.
Oh, yeah.
So I don't do like a phone call customer survey.
Oh, I love a phone call customer survey.
Yeah, that's you.
I want to get to know you.
Anyway, this whole episode made me think about that.
And I was like, I wonder if Jenna does them too.
I do, because I worked in that line of work and I know how, like a good review boosts you up the ladder.
It does.
And I did as well.
And so I think about that.
Well, the other storyline going on here Jim's going to have a talking head where it is revealed that he and Pam are wearing teeny tiny Bluetooth earpieces.
Yeah, and this technology did not exist.
No, the Mitsuashi B400 is not a real thing.
This is a fakie tech alert.
Fakie tech alert, yeah.
We talked a little bit about this with Stephen, how they were totally fake.
So the way we did this was we shot John's side of these conversations first and I would be off camera reading my lines.
And then at the end of the week, we went to the corporate set and we shot my side of it.
And then John was off camera.
And Veda, our script supervisor, would have to take diligent notes.
Because if there was an improvisation that we did, she would have to write it down so that we could remember to shoot my half of it when we moved over to corporate.
Oh man.
So it was really complicated.
It wasn't like there was a camera on him and a camera on me.
Right.
So that's how we did it.
And by the way, I found out that this whole Bluetooth storyline was pitched by BJ Novak.
I, of course, had to Google what is actually the smallest headphone ever made.
Oh, yeah.
According to the Internet, you guys, I don't know why I find this stuff interesting.
This is like what's happened with us with office ladies.
We talk about it.
We see something.
We're like, I want to know what is the smallest headphone.
According to the Internet, Swedish headphone maker.
Earin kicked off its consumer electronics show in 2021 by revealing the A3, true wireless earbuds.
And according to Earin, they are the smallest and lightest headphones ever made.
Sorry, Apple.
Are they expensive?
Do you know?
I looked it up.
It was like 190 bucks.
What?
For the smallest?
For the smallest.
But are they the best?
Don't know that.
Don't know that, guys.
Just telling you, Erin claims to have the smallest.
Now it's time for Dwight to find out how he did on his survey.
And I have what I'd like to call a new catchphrase alert.
What is it?
Sam, can you play it?
Alrighty, Dwightie.
Alrighty, Dwightie.
It's my new catchphrase.
I love it.
I'm going to say it.
Alrighty, Dwightie.
What you got, Jenna?
Well, I'll tell you, Dwight doesn't do well on his survey.
No.
And Michael's not joking.
Even though Dwight has that queasy feeling that he gets when he sometimes is hearing a joke.
Yeah, but he's not laughing.
He can't be sure because he can't see himself.
Yeah.
But yeah, it's very upsetting.
But guess who else doesn't get a good review?
Jim.
That's right.
Yeah.
He is arrogant and smudge.
A lot of smudgeness.
Yeah.
Now, Jim turns off his little Bluetooth.
Yeah.
Pam's like, what?
What's happening?
Yeah.
And then he has a talking head where he reveals some pretty big news that he was counting on this bonus.
Because he's going to buy his parents' house.
Pam doesn't know this.
And also, clearly, it's going to put him in debt because he says...
You know, he's going to buy something he can't really afford.
But he's also retiring his parents.
Yeah.
I guess they need the money from the house sale to retire.
Then he gets on the phone with Pam.
He tells her about the bad review.
But not about the house.
How do we feel about that?
Am I opening a can of worms?
I mean, you have that look on your face where you know exactly how you feel about it.
I don't know why you're asking me.
You just turned red.
I know.
I know because this is going to play out.
Well, you feel like a home purchase is a two-hander.
Not a one-hander.
It's a big life moment.
And not just because they're going to live in it together.
And I think that people should pick out their living space if they're going to live in it.
But also because it's a financial burden.
Jim has just revealed this is going to burden him and then also Pam.
And I think that something of that gravity...
I probably shouldn't have bought you that RV.
I do love the RV, Angela.
I wouldn't have had the table be exactly where it is, but I can live with it.
I loved it.
Thank you.
I put the title in your name.
How are those payments?
We're kidding.
I didn't buy her an RV.
I didn't buy her an RV.
But yeah, I think this kind of moment is what we call the two hander, guys.
It's a two hander life moment.
Yeah.
And I think this sort of speaks a little bit to where you know, Pam was so heavily criticized for her.
Alex's attention on her that she never reciprocated right in this art school story.
But there's not a lot of criticism of like how Jim is partnering and that's sort of where I don't know he gets a pass, maybe because he's so like charming and it's seen as like romantic.
Well, some people might see it as romantic that he's going to provide a home, but I think, but he's not really, because it's a financial burden.
I said, but I had a but coming, which is also that you know when you're partnering with someone in life, the word is partner right.
Yeah.
It's not soloing.
I'm not soloing with you.
I'm partnering with you.
And Pam might have said, you know what?
Why don't we live in one of our apartments and save money for a bit?
Or she might have said, listen, I get it.
I love your parents.
I want your parents to be able to retire.
I agree to take on this financial burden to provide your parents with a great retirement.
I'm in.
That's right.
But she wasn't given that opportunity.
She never got the chance.
Because there was some soloing and not some partnering.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's talk about what Andy's up to.
He goes to get some coffee, but he can't find his mug because Jim's using it.
It's his face.
But is it?
I mean, smile.
Smile like the mug.
That was so funny.
That made me laugh so hard.
Jenna, what do I have here in my hand?
You guys, Angela has her mug.
With the star and her little severe face.
I took it at the end of the week.
Am I like the office klepto?
I full on took it.
It has sat on my desk at home. for 15 years and I keep my pencils and stuff in it.
And I washed it out and brought it here today so I could drink out of it.
So cool.
In honor of the episode.
Sam, do you see it?
You're head of the PPC.
You need to clock things like this.
It's wonderful.
Okay.
Thank you.
I don't have one.
You don't have one.
That is not wonderful.
Thank you.
You do have a mug though with the edge on it.
I do have that.
Thanks to you, Angela.
I don't think we talked about that on the pod.
We haven't.
All right.
I'll share.
Angela got me a mug.
From the Edge, my favorite movie.
I made it, guys.
I went on a website and I made it.
It took you months.
It has a picture of Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin.
And then it has a picture of the bear.
And then it has the quote, what one man can do, another can do.
And I gave it to her as a birthday gift.
Yes.
And that is the actual quote from the movie.
Even though I say what one man has done, another can do.
I looked it up.
I got it right.
No, you got it right.
You got it right.
And now Jenna can drink her mug with either the bear facing her or Anthony Hopkins and Alec Baldwin.
Alec Baldwin.
And I use it on days when I need to get fired up.
Like when we're writing our book and I know I have a tough day of writing ahead and maybe I just can't get into it.
I'll get that mug Angela, and I'll pour coffee in it, and I'll look at that bear and I'll be like I'm going to slay this bear today.
You know, the quote from the movie is, we're going to kill a motherfucking bear today.
The bear is the book.
The bear is the book.
The bear is whatever you need to conquer in the day.
Not today.
And it stares at me.
Not today, bear.
Not today, bear.
I love my mug.
Or not today, Anthony.
Who's Anthony?
Anthony Hopkins.
Charles.
Charles.
You mean Charles?
Charles.
Well, Jim says, why don't you use the Snoopy mug?
And Pam's like, no, that's my mug.
But it's not even her mug.
Her mug is the pink mug.
I know.
So I wrote here in my notes.
Wait, did Pam bring her pink mug?
Maybe art school.
Maybe Pam brought her pink mug to art school.
Snoopy is her backup mug.
Yeah, I buy that.
This is more mug talk than you ever thought you might hear.
There's going to be more too.
So just buckle in for that later.
Also, Andy would like you to know about landing the greatest dentist for the wedding.
Do you mean the Shangri-La tent?
To celebrate your wedding with excellence, I screen grabbed it.
That's what the website says.
And let me just tell you a little bit about this tint, you guys.
It's two stories and heated, and it has a bridal suite for his bridal suite.
It's really simple and tasteful.
A two-story tint.
You know, it's the same dentist that Giuliani used for his first and third weddings.
But Nana Mimi can't be in canvas that long.
Angela's not having it.
No, no, no, no, no.
Well, I have to share with you guys the scene between Angela and Andy.
I couldn't do it.
I literally couldn't do it.
It's at 10 minutes, 10 seconds.
Angela Martin has to say to Andy, you can have your tent, but only if it's in a field, a hand-tilled field.
You still can't say it.
I tried my hardest.
Just now you said hand-tilled field.
No, I didn't.
I was trying so hard.
You said tealed.
Did I say tealed?
Like tealed, like the color.
Okay, well.
It's supposed to be tilled, hand-tilled field.
Okay, so.
This is what Angela could not do on the day.
What I just read to you guys was what was exactly in the script.
Right.
And if you watch the show, you know that's not what I say.
Because I think we did like 13 takes.
My southern kryptonite is a vowel in front of an L. You might remember filthy emails.
Couldn't say those.
So I kept saying a hand-healed field. hand-tilled field.
So many times that Lester came over to me who's so sweet.
And he said Angela, it's hand-tilled field tilled.
Tilled.
Hand-tilled.
Till, like until.
Hand-tilled.
I can't say that.
What happens to me?
I cannot say this word.
And I said, and I looked at him, And I like looked at his lips as he said it.
I was trying so hard.
Stephen Merchant is the director.
I'm sweating bullets here.
So I was like, OK, OK, I got it.
I got it.
Handheld Feld.
And so I said, you can have your tent, but only if it's in a field.
Handheld Feld.
Handheld Feld.
Handheld Feld.
And it was like a disaster.
Lester came over.
I'll never forget.
He sort of crouched down by my desk and whispered to me Angela, why don't you just say a hand plowed field?
And I said, oh, Lester, thank you.
Thank you so much.
And that's what made it in the episode because I can't say hand till field.
You can't do it.
I can't do it.
Can you say hand until field?
Hand until field.
Anyway, that is how Lester rescued me in this scene.
That's beautiful.
I know.
He saved me with hand plowed.
Bless his heart.
He did.
We need to talk about this scene, which we did talk about with Steven.
The role play scene.
William Buttlicker!
Yes.
We basically covered this with Steven, but we did have a fan question from Danielle Allison, Stella and Allison, who wanted to know how much of the scene was improv and how much was scripted.
So I went and looked in the script.
Thank you, Jamesopedia.
Yes, thank you, Jamesopedia.
The scene is entirely scripted.
It's amazing.
That is such good writing.
It is such good writing.
I was sure that Steve's little asides were improvised.
His delivery...
Is so spontaneous.
Like when he says, it's up to you to change his mind.
Yes.
I thought that was an improv too.
Scripted.
Beautiful.
So, so good.
What wasn't in the script was, I am irate right now.
That was not in the script.
And there were a couple of other little lines, but they were always just like a play on what was already there.
Right.
But yeah, that scene is just beautiful.
Next is a scene that we didn't talk about with Steven and I wish we had.
It's that moment when Dwight peels his car out and tells Jim to get in.
Jenna, I know.
I meant to ask him about it.
So he talked about it in the DVD commentary.
That he loved how absurd it was that Dwight was like, get in and then peels out.
And you really think they're going to just tear out of the parking lot and go somewhere.
And then they go nowhere.
And then he wanted him to make like a hard left and just go into his parking spot.
And Jim's like, what?
And Stephen said he wanted it to be even bigger.
He was like, can we do an even bigger peel out?
But there just wasn't the space.
Well, I found this interview with Lester where he said that originally they were just going to have them meet, that Dwight was just going to have him meet down in the parking lot and they were going to have this conversation.
And that Steven pitched, oh, guys, let's make it more interesting and do this crazy car maneuver.
It's so funny.
So, so, so funny.
I did get a fan catch from Madeline R., She is pretty sure that Pam's car is in the parking lot.
Oh, that's a good catch.
In this scene.
So I looked for it and it's so fast.
I couldn't register it, but I bet, you know, they just would leave our cars there.
Yeah.
So I think there's a good chance it's there.
Oh, for sure.
I bet.
Well, you know, one of the things I loved about this scene was Dwight is, you know, convinced someone might be listening into their conversation?
So he plays Jay Giles' band, the song Centerfold, really loud.
It just took me back.
I'm like, where are my roller skates?
I went and listened to the album last night.
And you guys, if you haven't watched music videos from this time...
Go back.
They're pretty special.
They're real special.
They're delightful.
My kids were like, what are they doing?
I'm like, you guys, this is a music video.
Oh my gosh.
I remember watching music videos on MTV.
And then do you remember the VH1 pop-up thing?
Yeah.
Where they would pop up little facts on the screen?
Yeah, I loved those.
Me too.
Our whole generation grew up watching music videos.
It's wild.
So now we're back in the office and Dwight is on a sales call, but he becomes increasingly convinced that someone is listening to him.
He's talking to a guy on the phone who, by the way I found out, was played by actor Steve Zissis who, if you don't know who he is, he is amazing.
He is one of the stars of the movie Baghead, which he made with the Duplass brothers.
Then he went on to create the TV comedy Togetherness with them.
And he has a story by credit on the new film Cruella.
I mean, he's part of that whole like mumblecore movement.
We got the best actors just to be voices on the phone.
What the hell?
What the heck?
Dwight is positive.
It's Kelly.
And he charges back there, right?
Yes.
And he finds her on the phone and she's like, you can't just come into my nook and call me stupid.
Get out of my nook.
And then Pam over at the corporate offices goes, that's what she said.
That's what she said.
OK, that was an improvised pitch by John Krasinski.
Oh, cute.
So I'm there and John is like, oh, my gosh, it should be.
That's what she said.
That's what she said.
And so we did it.
We saved it.
And then when I went to the corporate offices, we shot my side of it.
That is so cute.
I love that.
Well, they're about to really uncover some details here in this little mystery.
Because Jim has a conversation with Kelly and she doesn't have anything to say.
He literally asked her about Daryl.
Like normally she'd be chatty.
And Pam was like, wait a second.
Yeah.
Why isn't she talking, Eurydice?
A good thing that Pam was in Jim's ear this day, because he may have never figured this out without her truly.
You know what I mean?
Well, the next scene really cracked me up because Jim goes to Ryan.
Ryan's got to know what's up with Kelly, right?
And Ryan...
I fell in love with Ryan in this episode, Jenna.
Yeah, you're with me now.
I'm with you.
Because Ryan said, this made me laugh.
He says, I don't play the politics game anymore, Jim.
Can I tell you something?
I played it full on in New York.
I played it high stakes for keeps, made it to the top.
Like, who is this guy?
And my favorite thing is he's like, can I tell you what I learned?
As he takes a sip of coffee.
So we never end up finding out what he learned.
I'm so sad.
I would love to know his lessons.
But Jim sees the coffee mug.
Yes.
This is the Columbo starting to piece it together like Stephen talked about.
Yes, he also has a coffee mug with his face and the little star.
And that's when it becomes clear that Jim and Dwight did not attend Kelly's America's Got Talent viewing party.
These were the party favors.
These were the party favors and somewhere in her house.
Kelly has a mug with Dwight's face on it and gems.
She probably smashed them.
Oh, I didn't even think about that.
Oh, yeah.
She bought everyone mugs.
And so these leftover mugs are sitting there just making her so angry every day.
And she's finally, oh, revenge is a dish best served cold, Kelly.
Well done.
I know.
Well, I want you to know, Jim figures it out.
He rushes over to Dwight and says, Dwight, you were right.
And I loved this scene so much.
Dwight is finally right about a conspiracy.
And then like a 10-year-old boy, he's like, let's go get her.
And Jim's like, wait.
But first he does that crazy air kick at Phyllis.
I know.
Well, also in that interview with Lester, he said that Rain improvised that air kick.
He only did it one time, but it was so brilliant.
That's the take they used.
Of course he did.
Because if you guys watch the show, Dwight does that air kick whenever he gets real excited.
He's done it in the stairwell before a big sales call.
It's the happy air kick.
Yeah.
I'm going to start using it.
Pump it up.
Air kick.
Also in that interview with Lester, he said he was really proud of this mug idea.
And he said that ultimately, the writers knew that Kelly was going to sabotage the customer surveys because Dwight and Jim skipped her viewing party.
But they couldn't figure out how the guys would realize this fact.
They had originally talked about maybe having Dwight tap Kelly's phone and overhear something, or maybe they would find like a secret recording device or something.
But that's when Lester got the party favor mug idea.
And it's really so genius.
And then paired with the way Stephen directed it is just so great.
Yeah.
Two great people working together, making a great moment.
Yeah.
We also got a fan question about this scene from Evan L. Did the cast do a photo shoot for the mugs?
And if so, did they ask you guys to make weird faces because Oscar looks really bored on his?
I don't remember a special photo shoot.
We had done a publicity photo shoot.
So maybe they use those images.
But I'm looking at my face on the mug right now.
And it's also possible that Phil just walked around and snapped pictures of us.
It kind of looks like one of your publicity photos that maybe they color enhanced.
I still have my publicity photo.
Do you want me to do a side by side in stories?
Yes.
We'll vote, guys.
Do you think it's the same picture or do you think Phil just took my picture at my desk one day?
Because they did do that sometimes.
Oh, they would.
They would walk around and you'd just be sitting there and they'd snap a picture of you for something.
We'll get to the bottom of it.
Well, Jenna, Kelly's going to get called into Michael's office and she's busted now.
She is.
Dwight wants her fired.
Yeah.
And Michael asked them to leave the office.
You know, he's like, this is serious.
I need you to leave the office.
And then Michael says this, and I loved it so much.
Michael says, I have an enormous amount of trouble trying to get people to come to my place.
And I hate it.
I can't tell you how much leftover guacamole I've ended up eating over the years.
I don't even know why I make it in such great quantities.
And then he says, listen, just sit there and pretend to cry.
Right.
Can you do that?
Yeah.
And then they both end up laughing.
And it's a really sweet moment.
It really is.
And we got a bunch of people writing in to ask if that laugh after Kelly fake cries, if that was like a fake laugh or if Mindy broke.
No, that was scripted.
It's scripted that her fake crying made them laugh.
Well, I'll say this.
In rewatching this episode like three times right before today, I could hear Mindy's fake laugh and then her real laugh.
Yeah.
So if you watch it, she fake cries, she fake laughs, then Steve laughs.
As Michael.
And then Mindy laughs as herself.
Yeah.
Her real laugh definitely comes out.
Yeah.
So now we're at this scene at corporate, which we talked about a lot with Stephen.
This scene where Alex comes to Pam's work, he's going to kidnap her, wants to see this art.
He said wine and cheese, okay?
That's all you got to hear.
If someone says midday, there's an exhibit with wine and cheese, that's not being friends.
Yeah, well...
Thanks to Jamesopedia, I saw all of the candy bag for this.
How many were there?
Ten.
Ten alts for this scene.
Yes.
Oh, my word.
Yeah.
I wanted to count because we kind of talked about it.
And it was ten.
Ten alternate scenes.
And I swear we shot so many, so many versions of it.
And I remember doing these scenes with Rich.
It was so grueling.
And we really bonded.
Like, Rich and I are great friends today, I think, because we went through this moment together.
Yeah, you were in the trenches of trying to find this scene.
Yes.
Well, we should have Rich on and talk about it.
We need to hear his side of things.
We do.
Of shooting this crazy scene.
Let's call him.
Rich, come on.
So I feel like we really covered this, but we did have a fan write in.
And I'm so sorry I didn't write down your name because I thought this was a really good observation.
They were saying, wasn't Pam's art program three months long and she went at the beginning of the summer?
How was she there for Halloween and how is she still there?
Isn't it November now?
Art school is a mystery.
It's a mystery.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's a good catch.
I still want to know if she has parking.
You know, these are things we're going to wonder about art school.
Well, she's having to go into Manhattan for her corporate job because Pratt's out in Brooklyn.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, we end this episode with Andy, Angela, and Dwight.
Yeah.
Because Andy has found the perfect place for them to get married, and it's Schrute Farms.
It ticks all of the boxes.
Angela gave him a list of what the wedding location had to include.
Yeah.
And Dwight tells them he thinks they should have the Excalibur package.
It's going to have everything they need.
Angela is... clearly delighted.
Andy is relieved.
And Jenna.
All I could think of when I watched the scene was Jim and Pam planned Pam's wedding to Roy.
And now Angela and Dwight are going to plan her wedding to Andy.
Oh, yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
It's sort of a callback.
It is.
You know, there's another little weird callback in this scene.
A lot of people wrote in with this fan catch that the funeral homes director in Job Fair.
Yes, he's in the album.
He's in the album.
He got married at Schrute Farms.
Yes.
Well, Lester said in his interview that they loved this guy and they used him twice and they also thought it worked because the Schrutes get married in their own graves.
So he felt that he would know about Schrute farms.
Yeah, that's a great catch.
Well, all righty, Dwightie.
That was customer survey.
Thank you so much, James Carey, for sending me those scripts.
I also got in touch with Randy Cordray on this one, because I couldn't remember if the Bluetooths were real.
I was so convinced.
So I wrote Randy and I was like, They weren't real, right?
No, they weren't real.
They talked about it quite a bit on the DVD commentary.
And of course, a humongous thank you to Stephen Merchant.
We love you.
We love you.
Please come back.
Yes.
And next week we have business trip.
Michael's going to Canada, y'all.
And Rich, we're going to call you.
Yes, Rich, you will be in business trip, an episode that your character does not appear.
But we have questions for you.
We do.
And this is our podcast, so we can do that.
That's right.
All righty, Dwightie, you guys have a good week.
You are really loving that phrase.
I said it one time too many, didn't I?
Maybe, but I like that when you attach to something, you go for it.
Thank you.
All right.
We'll see you next week.
That was your extra long goodbye.
Thank you for listening to Office Ladies Second Drink.
This episode was initially created in collaboration with Earwolf.
Office Ladies is a presentation of Odyssey and is produced by Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.
Our senior producer is Matt Beagle.
Our Second Drinks episodes are produced by Molly Nugent.
Our audio engineer is Sam Kiefer.
Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Reese Dennis.
Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.
Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.
