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Can I ask you a question?
Now I just sit in the perfect time.
What if I could be out there?
I'm a cybernetic organism living to show
what metal hand goes to.
Me, Tim, Ferris, show.
Hello boys and girls ladies and germs.
This is Tim Ferris.
Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferris Show,
where it is my job every episode
to interview world class performers from different disciplines
to tease out the habits, routines, lessons learned, et cetera,
that you can apply to your own lives.
My guest today is someone I've wanted to have on the podcast
for years.
We did the interview at his house in Idaho.
He has no social media, no website.
And his name is Scott Glenn, he is a legend.
Scott Glenn's acting career spans nearly 60 years.
His impressive film resume includes performances
in Apocalypse Now or Urban Cowboy.
The Right Stuff, Silverado, the Hunford Red October,
The Silence of the Lamps, Backdraft,
The Version Suicides, and The Born Ultimate.
I would venture that every single one of you
would recognize his face.
More recently, Scott has appeared on the small screen
as Kevin Garvey Sr. in The Leftovers.
The blinds sense a stick in Marvel's Daredevil
and The Defenders.
And as the retired sheriff, Alan Pangborn and Castle Rock,
this year's scholar returned to HBO
to join season three of The White Lotus.
And there is so much more to his story.
He has, I would consider it, the gold medal trifecta
in terms of mastery across life.
And we'll get into exactly what that means.
But I've wanted to have this conversation with Scott
for a very, very long time.
It took place on his couch in his living room.
And I'll leave it at that.
Please enjoy a very wide-ranging conversation
with the one and only legendary Scott Glenn.
I have an embarrassment of riches here.
We could start just about anywhere.
But I thought I would start with saying
that I'm in part so happy to be having this conversation
because even among all of the hundreds of people
I've interviewed, if we look at people in their 30s
and 40s, they don't check career, fitness,
and relationships.
But you seem to have 50 plus years
checking all three of those boxes.
It's hard to find three out of three in the young guns
who have sort of wide open field ahead of them.
And I wanted to dig into that.
But I thought I would start with Idaho
because we're sitting here in your home.
It's been a long time since I've been here.
And you have elk in the backyard.
This is not what most people imagine
when they think Hollywood star.
How did you end up in Idaho?
A bunch of years ago.
So we've been up here for, I'm not sure the exact number,
but in the mid to high 40 years.
We were living in LA.
My wife has probably throws on the wheel
as well as any two dozen people on the plan.
She's really a good butter.
She was accepted to a summer workshop.
It was invitation only to the best ceramic artists
in this country.
And it was going to last all summer long.
And we were living in LA.
We had a place in Topanga.
So she said we had a VW van typical hippie-dippy
live out of the back of it.
She was going up with our two daughters
to do this workshop.
And she said, well, you're going to come with me.
And I went, no, I'm waiting for the phone to ring
to tell me whether I've got a job or not.
And she said, does the phone really have to ring for you
to kick you and your ass to go anywhere?
Can you just do something on your own?
And I went, I don't know.
And she said, well, you can.
Because there is a group of people who are leaving from
a place she wasn't sure where, as it turns out,
was Chalice, Idaho.
That they're leaving on the following dates,
which was like a week after her workshop started.
She said they're going into an area called
the Big Horn Crags, the biggest primitive area
in the Contiguous United States,
bigger than the A-Works, except Alaska.
And they're going to be doing high mountains.
This isn't July.
They're going to be doing high mountain traverses
in snow and ice for three days.
Then they're going to be going down into a little valley
and climbing rock faces and naming them
for the G-A-D-SIC survey.
It's being led by a guy named Eric Ryback,
who's the first, at that time, the only person ever
to walk the whole Pacific coast,
the trail from Canada down to the bottom of Baja.
And she said, you're going with him.
You know, I was a rock climber at the time.
So she knew that about me, but I said,
how do you know?
She said, because I signed you up.
So it was like I had no choice in the matter.
So we got up here.
I tend to overdo things physically.
I've just part of my stupid personality.
So we got here and I started hiking up Baldy.
Now we come from sea level to here.
So I got altitude sickness the first day
and Pute might guts out about four or five times.
At any rate, I had about a week to try to get ready.
And then she drove me north to Chalice.
I think there were seven people in this trip with us.
So I met Eric Ryback and these people
I was going to be hanging out with
for the next few weeks.
And we drove 90 miles on a dirt road
to the Cobalt Ranger station
where you didn't tell them where you were going.
You just told them when you expected to be back.
And if you weren't back inside,
I think the cushion was three days.
They were going to send people out to look for you.
And at the time, it's probably still true.
The big corn cracks, no internal combustion allowed at all.
So if forestry service had to go in and open up trailheads,
they had to go in with mules, two man crosscut saws
because you couldn't turn on a film.
That wouldn't work.
So we did that.
And it was, I hadn't been off on my own alone
with the exception of once, I won't talk about.
But in that situation, it was just so much fun
and so cleansing and so it was just the best.
And I thought I knew how to rock climb,
but there was a guy named Tony Jones there
who was a great rock climber
who sort of took me under his wing
and took me into 511 plus plus stuff.
The dangerous stuff, he led all of it.
So I don't want to pretend that I just instantly did it.
But I did do those climbs again and again.
And I remember when Carol was going to come and pick it
when we were done, it was like two weeks
and little over two and a half weeks of doing this.
I said to Tony, I got to give you some money or something.
I mean, you've been giving me, and he said, come on,
I had a great time.
I said, what can I do for you?
And he said, you can do this.
When you go back to LA, tell everybody
how horrible Idaho is.
Tell him it's a tick fever state.
It sucks.
And you had a bad time.
And I said, why should I do that?
And he said, because I don't want people coming up here.
So when Carol drove me back into ketchup,
I felt like I was entering lower Manhattan.
It was like noise and people.
And it's a small town for people to live in.
It's a small town.
But what I discovered, this sounds woo-aw, and whatever.
But yeah, I'm really give a shit, because it's true.
It was like the family fell in love with each other again.
I had been sort of living in the blues in LA
because of what I do for a living.
And all that fell away up here.
When you came to Idaho, roughly how old were you
and where was your career at that point?
I was probably 38, 39, like that, late 30s.
And had you already had a sort of inflection point
in your career at that point?
I had done a ton of work in New York,
mainly street theater, improv, off-off Broadway.
And then we moved to LA for me to do the first film I ever did,
which was called Babymaker.
And then I did a couple of sort of very small parts
in big, important American movies.
One was Nashville, Bob Alvin's film.
And the other was Apocalypse Now, that I was on for a little
over seven months.
They shot that film.
The shooting was a year and a half.
So I was a short timer at seven months.
But that was my experience of working in front of a camera,
learning a lot of stuff that stood me in really good
stead later on.
But what had happened in LA was, OK, I had gone to Universal,
I think, to audition.
I'd done some TV stuff at Universal.
And I'd gone there, and because of my experience
with Apocalypse, what had happened before
is I would go in and I would audition for a TV job mainly
at one of the studios.
And people would tell me what a crappy actor I was.
You squint too much.
You're not loud enough.
You're not doing this.
You're not doing that.
And on the surface, I would say, well, what do you know?
But the reality was underneath it,
I suspected maybe they were right.
And I didn't know what I was doing in terms of a camera.
On stage or doing improv in the back of an alley,
yeah, I could do that.
So I had no self-confidence.
And then I did Apocalypse Now and wound up working.
My choice.
Frances thought, I think incorrectly,
but he thought that he owed me because he thought
I saved his life in the Philippines.
So I went over to do a small part.
And he said, I'll write you whatever you want,
because you filled up a helicopter in a rain storm
with nothing getting in the gas.
And you kept me from drowning in a river.
So we might go back to that.
OK, fine.
And that's nice.
He said, what do you want?
And I said, I want to be in the end of the movie.
And he said, you can't be in the end of the movie, Scott.
It's absolutely completely cast.
Well, wait, wait, there is a part you could do.
But you'd be like a glorified extra.
Play Colby, the guy who came up
river in front of Martin Sheen.
And I understood because of the way
I've learned everything in my life that's
important to me is you learn by apprenticeship,
not from a book or going to school, at least I can't.
And I thought, at the end of the movie,
I'm going to be around the person who, in my mind,
is far and away the greatest American,
probably the greatest movie actor that ever lived.
Marlon Brando.
And I'm going to be around this guy.
And just being around him and Dennis Hopper, who's a lunatic,
but brilliant.
And Martin Sheen, and in the end of this movie,
is an experience that will change my life.
And it did.
I told Francis later on that I got the greatest gift you
could give any artist in the Philippines, which
was self-confidence.
So when I came back, before we went up to Idaho,
I was basically locked out of universal
because along with self-confidence,
I came back with a huge amount of arrogance.
And now I remember I did one audition,
and they said, you know, you're not really very good.
We want to give you things to work on.
And I said, what the fuck do you know?
Who have you worked with?
Because I was just doing improvs and work
with Marlon Brando, Victoria Storaro, Frances Coppola,
Dennis Hopper, and they accepted me as an equal.
What have you done?
You've done this, and this, you can't even
fucking direct traffic.
So they kicked me out of universal.
So now we're back from Idaho.
And I'm sitting watching television, smoking a joint,
and Carol walks into the living room and says,
babe, what's wrong?
And I say, what do you mean?
I'm fine.
She said, no, you're crying.
And I reached up, and there were tears coming out
of my eyes.
I was on television, and a bread I had done.
And I pointed at it, and I said, you're
supposed to get better at what you do.
Not worse.
That's the crappiest acting I've ever seen.
I have was so much better doing street theater in New York.
What's happened to me?
And I started thinking, and that night at dinner,
I said, you know, what I've turned into in LA,
and I'm horrible at it, is a show business politician,
which is, what am I up for?
Who do I know?
What openings and parties can I go to to network and make?
And I used to think, what makes this person tick?
Why are they doing what they do?
What belief system are they coming from?
All that stuff that I really cared about then
and due to this day.
And I said to Carol, I said, well, how
would you and the girls feel if we
move back to Idaho?
And she said, what do you do up there?
And I said, I met somebody who told me
that if I gave him three years, he would have
promised me to be in a backcountry, cross-country, ski
guide and hunting guide.
And I'll do that.
And she said, will you quit acting?
I said, no, I'll do Shakespeare in the park and Boise,
if I can get a part.
I'll do that kind of stuff.
But I can't go back to New York with my two daughters,
this young, and subject them to the life of a street actor.
So we came up here with that in mind.
It was a super cold year.
We came up with a friend of Carol's in mind.
He was a commercial director, but sort of feeling
the same kind of burnout in LA that I felt.
So the two families decided we'd come up here
and try to figure out what to do and catch him Idaho.
No real idea.
We were up here, inside two weeks, I
get a call from a friend of mine, a guy named
Rupert Hitzig, who said, I'm doing a movie in Mexico.
The way I knew Rupert was he and I were in the same platoon
in the Marine Corps.
So Rupert said, I'm producing a movie in Mexico,
and I can give you a small part in it.
You will be shooting for three months,
and I got like with hanga was I can give you $2,000.
And I said, great.
So Carol and I went to Mexico, and I was warned
when I went down there.
It starred Rod Steiger, Bert Landcaster, Amanda Plummer,
and Diane Lane.
Those were the stars.
And I had teeny tiny little part is one of Bird's.
It was the Duel and Dalton gang, Western.
And I was told by a lot of people who went down there
that you're going to love Rod Steiger.
He works the same way you do.
He's a member of the actor studio, and you're kind of guy.
But watch out for Bert Landcaster.
He's an old school movie star.
He'll getting your key light.
He'll screw you up.
He'll intentionally ruin two shots.
So they'll have to go to his close up.
Just watch out for him.
So we go to Mexico.
First day there, El Presidente Lobby, a hotel in Mexico,
I mean, Rod Steiger.
And I rarely openly dislike somebody when I meet them.
But I wouldn't say it was hate at first sight,
but it was certainly dislike at first sight.
And then a little bit later, Bert Landcaster
comes into the lobby.
And to be really honest, he hardly saw me at all.
But he's boy, did he see Carol?
And he said to her, so what do you do?
And she said, I'm a potter.
He said, you got any pictures?
And she says she has some little slide pictures
of stuff she'd done.
He looked at them, and I could see something changing him.
And he looked at her and he said, God, I love this stuff.
I only have the work of one of the ceramic artists.
Would you throw me 11 place or 12 place dinnabar said?
Was her first commission ever?
And she said, yeah, yeah, I will.
Later on, many months later, she found out
the other ceramic artists that he owned was named Picasso.
Wow.
So the next day, and he kind of was like, I wasn't even there.
So the next day, we're on the set, getting ready to do
some scene.
It's a group shot.
At the end of the first take, Bert walks over to me
and he said, so Scott, has anybody ever
taught you the difference between working
with a close up camera lens and being on stage?
He said, I know you've done street theater.
I can tell.
I said, no, he said, I didn't think so.
He said, you know, I'm not going to bullshit you.
I seriously was watching you.
And I think you've got something.
But if you'll permit me to be a gigantic pain in the ass
over the next three months, I'll teach you whatever I know.
Wow.
What an incredible opportunity.
So he taught me about how to work with a camera
and how to, I mean, he was an amazing guy.
He was an aerialist who traveled across the country
with a carnival and to make drinking money,
fought people in tough men content.
He was the real deal.
I love Bert.
It was like what people had told me about Rodden Bert was like,
he could flip the rail.
He could flip the rail.
So in the way, this is a long, I got rid of,
we get all the time.
So we're coming back from Mexico.
He went to Paramount to see a friend of Carol's in mind
that on their advice, Carol got pregnant.
They said, you guys have got to have a baby.
And we were really close.
Jim was the director, Jim Bridges.
And Jack Larson was his partner lover or whatever.
And they were great guys, super great guys.
So we wanted to just say hi to him on our way back to Idaho.
We walk into his office.
He looks at me, he said, I can't believe you're coming in here.
He said, I just realized you're perfect for this part
in this movie I'm directing.
It's the bad guy, but you're perfect for it.
Just hang around town for two or three more days.
Meet the star who has cast a proof.
He didn't tell me who it was.
Who has cast a proof.
And the producers here at Paramount,
and I think we can make this happen.
And I said, screw that.
I don't go to anybody's office like a piece of meat anymore.
I just made 2000 bucks.
We're on our way back to Idaho.
I just wanted to tell you, I love you.
And I hope you and Jack are well and Karen are out of here.
So we left.
We came back up to Idaho.
About two weeks later, maybe a little less.
I get a call from Jim and he said, okay, now I'm on location in Houston.
Paramount doesn't know who you are.
They don't want you to, they want Ryan O'Neal to do this part
or maybe Sam Shepard.
But I'm going to send you a plane ticket to come down here.
I think we can make this work.
I've told Irving Azov, the music guy who's also producer about you
and he likes the idea.
You got to meet him.
I think we can make this happen.
And I said, no, don't send me a plane ticket.
I don't want them to have their hooks into me, even for a plane ticket.
I just killed my GMC Jimmy.
I'll drive to Houston.
I'll see you down there.
And I said, just tell me what the part is.
And he said, a bank robber and a bull rider.
And I went, okay.
So I drive down to Houston on my way to Houston.
I stop off just in front of Huntsville prison
where I knew the character I played spent some time.
And I'm going to be a little shady about this
because I kind of have to be.
But so I'm sitting there in my Jimmy
and I hear familiar voices out of the darks
and, hey, Avato, what are you doing?
And I look over and there, when he was alive
in another part of my life, I knew Freddie Fender,
the country-western singer, whose real name was Baldemont Reddá.
And Freddie was in a family that picked everything illegally.
That was his background.
And he hung out with these two guys
who were for real distaleros, the real deal.
And these two guys were there.
And they said, what are you doing here, man?
And I told them what I was doing.
They went, we don't believe this.
We got our buddy coming out.
He'll be out of here in a 15, 20 minutes.
You got to meet him.
He's a bank robber and a bull rider.
And I went, yeah, Mexican guy said, no, man,
he's a fucking gringo.
And I went, okay.
So I met this guy who told me enough about the character
that I was going to be playing in little things.
Like he said, you got to get a hat sticker or something,
not a tattoo, but something on you that says 13 and a half.
Because that's the number that gets us in here.
And we all have it.
And I said, what's that stand for?
And he said, judge, jury, and a half ass lawyer.
So I said, okay.
And he said, you got to get tattoos on your forearm,
Newestra Familia.
I said, but I'm not a Latino.
He said, neither am I.
And showed me that he had that.
What did that refer to?
Our family.
Like what was the thing?
That's the in prison organization of what you know.
I see.
That he's a doctor.
He did.
So he gave me that to do.
And then I said, is there anything about being a bull rider
that bull riders do that I could learn that most people
can't do?
And he showed me.
He said, yeah, when you tie off your glove,
since you're going to be using your dominant hand
to wrap the raw hide around, you're
going to have to use your non-dominant hand and your teeth.
And he said, you're going to have to do it a lot of times
to the point where you can go without even thinking about it.
So I'm OK.
I'm going to do that at least 100 times a day from now on.
Hopefully 1,000.
I get down to Houston.
Jim said, I'm going to make this happen.
But I met the actress who had never
played the lead in a big movie, Debra Winger.
And both she, John Travolta, Irving A's off
and Jim Bridges always kind of like shoved me down
Paramount's throat.
And Jim said, this movie is going to change your life.
You'll never have to audition again after you do it.
And he told me the truth.
I didn't believe it.
But in those days, it was Urban Cowboy.
And the part was West High Tower.
It was funny because when I read the script,
I thought, all I have to do is be honest with this character.
I'm not going to go for big moments right?
Because if I'm honest with, I'll jump off the screen
at people simply because this movie
is about oil workers and blue collar workers
who dress up like outlaw cowboys on weekends
to go in and ride not a real bull, but bull machine.
Yeah, mechanical.
And I'm going to play a guy who's a real bank robber,
a real ex-con, and a real bull rider.
And if I just get close to it, I'll look like a diamond
in a bucket full of rhinestones.
Not because I'm particularly good,
but it was almost like a setup.
So anyway, that happened.
And I didn't have to audition.
I auditioned once since then for a part that,
not a big part in the movie.
I really wanted to do it.
And the director said, no, no, at that point,
I don't want you to do it.
So I went to a cattle call under an assumed name,
auditioned for it and got that part.
But since I did urban cowboy, my life has changed.
And I thought I was offered the lead in some TV series
while I was in Texas.
Because in those days,
daily's were shared by everybody in the business.
So I turned them all down because I thought,
I don't want to leave Idaho and move back to LA.
I loved my life in Idaho.
I love, I didn't know how to ski,
but I was learning how to ski.
And I was climbing and I was hiking and I was shooting
and I was riding motorcycles.
And all the things I really love to do.
And plus I could really cleanly think about
and concern myself with the art of acting and not,
who do I know and where am I going?
And I've got this cool place in Malibu
or hey, that's the politics in the show.
So I turned down the TV stuff.
When I'd been in Texas, Carol had shined left me,
but I knew at a certain point when I was playing
West High Tower that I had the character,
but I was terrified if I left it alone
and put it down to be like a bar of soap
and I tried to pick it up.
And I wouldn't, so I lived that part 24-7.
I got arrested, got in trouble, I was West High Tower
the whole time.
I remember at one point, it came back to,
we had an apartment in the gallery and I came back
and none of Carol's clothes were,
there was no presence of them in the apartment
and there had been a gun to work that day.
I'm thinking what's going on in the phone
is ringing, I pick it up and it's Carol.
And she's some back in Idaho.
I can't handle living with West High Tower.
So you let me know when he's dead, me and the girls love you.
We're up here, but we're not gonna put ourselves
through this.
And I went, okay.
And I was about to hang up and she said, wait,
before you hang up, I just want to say one thing
and I said, what's that?
She said two things.
Number one, I love you.
Number two, I think you're hitting the home
around with this and it's gonna change our lives.
So when I drove back up here in my gym,
I remember I stopped off in Wyoming at one point.
People must have thought I was nuts.
And I got out of the gym and I walked down
to the side of the road and I took this invisible
West High Tower and threw him in the ground,
broke his fucking neck and called Carol to pay phone.
I said, West High Tower is dead.
I'm coming home.
Wow, okay.
They probably think, okay, I could do you.
And then we're gonna go back to the origin story.
We were running in this house with this family
that had come up with us.
We were sharing this house.
We had a bedroom on the bed.
We're two scripts for the leads and movies
for more money than I'd ever dreamed about making.
And that was that.
So here I am in Idaho.
What we're gonna go back in time.
We're gonna slowly rewind, except a couple of follow-up
questions.
One is Jim Bridges.
What did he see?
What gave him the feeling of the confidence to say,
this is gonna change your life?
What do you think it was?
Was it that set up that you talked about?
I had done my first movie with him.
And I got the movie.
I came out here and I met him,
but I didn't audition for the part.
There was a director Ed Peron who I'd done a thing called,
in New York, it was called Collision Course.
It was nine, one action, the course of a night.
And Ed said to Jim, if you're looking for somebody,
a young guy who's not gonna charge you a ton of money,
has perfect for the part, Scott cleans the guy.
And so I got that part and did the movie.
So Jim knew me over a period of,
in those days, movies took about three months to shoot.
Now it's way faster.
And I guess whatever was he saw in me,
it was jangle the wake when we walked into his office
coming back from Mexico.
That was where he went, oh my God,
I had something that he saw about me.
He wrote the script for Urban Cowboy
with Aaron Wathen, the guy who had originally written
Callum and I don't know if it's the time,
some place in New York about Gilles and Bull Machines
and all that stuff.
And then Jim adapted that and wrote the screenplay.
I don't know what it was he saw.
I remember my screen test.
They wanted me to do a scene from them
and I said, I can't do that.
I'm not in the part, I wanna lose it.
And Jim said, well, we gotta put you on screen.
And I said, and Debra was doing her sexy bull ride
at the time and there were a bunch of guys
in the front watching and I picked out
the baddest looking one of all who was a bandito, Texas.
And I said, put the camera on me and I thought,
dear Lord, don't let this go bad, but here we go.
And they were watching Debra and I walked over to him
and I went, hey, and he looked up at me
and I said, you're sitting on my fucking seat
and he looked at me and I thought,
what's gonna happen and he got up and walked away.
And I went and sat down, that was my screen test.
So, ha ha ha ha.
Just a quick thanks to one of our sponsors
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If we go way back in time,
and this is just based on what I researched online,
but it seems like initially you were not born
out of the womb dreaming of being an actor.
It seems like you wanted to be a writer.
And how did acting enter the scene for you?
And I read a bit about Berghof.
I wanted to be a writer.
And if I look back on my whole life,
the most important single event in my life
was Scarlet Fever when I was nine years old.
I wasn't supposed to have survived.
There was one week in when the doctors told my mom
and dad to get a plot.
And what saved my life was crystalline penicillin.
I don't know if you've ever had that a shot of it,
but it's interesting.
Because usually with most shots,
it's the needle going in that hurts.
And it's fine.
Crystal line penicillin is thicker than entry grease.
So the needle going in kind of hurts,
but then the rest of it going straightens you up.
And I didn't realize what was saving my life.
So I hated it.
But that experience turned me into an athlete,
turned me into someone who I've learned to not only live with,
but falling love with my fantasies and my imagination.
And I don't know if it's true or not.
And I don't want to know.
Because it's a fantasy that if it's not true,
I grew up believing it was that on my mom's side of the family,
I was directly related to Lord Byron.
When I got out of bed from Scarlet Fever,
my bones were so soft that they bent.
And I limped like for almost four years.
But it turned me into an athlete, because I was just
embarrassed about the way I looked.
And I was in a neighborhood where it wasn't good to be physically frail.
This was Pittsburgh?
Yeah.
At any rate, I decided, you know, two things.
Number one, I wasn't going to be Walter Middey.
I wasn't going to have an imaginary life.
The adventures I was imagining were all going to be true.
I was going to make them come true.
And one of them was I was going to be a writer, poet writer.
So when I enlisted in the Marine Corps,
I enlisted as a six month through a service.
Why did you do that?
Because you went from English major to Marine Corps.
Yeah.
Because where I came from, there was nobody dodged the draft.
And the draft was happening.
I see.
So for me, and I knew even with a BA in college,
I had so little technical ability to everybody will tell you about that.
If I was smart enough, I would have tried to become probably a naval aviator,
but I wasn't smart enough to be a pilot.
So where I came from, the choices were three.
Marine Corps, a second airborne, a hundred first airborne.
That's it.
And then a friend of mine said, well, you can be airborne, anemory in both.
And then I was worried about my hearing because I've been legally deaf since I was 10 years
old because of the cause of the cause of the start of the year.
And they laughed.
They said, you're going to be an enlisted Marine.
You're going to bootcamp a parasol, and you're worried about your hearing.
People are going to scream at you the whole time you're there.
And then you're going to be shooting automatic weapons without hearing protection.
Your hearing is going to be trash.
Don't worry about it.
So that was my reason.
So I did my six months in the Marine Corps.
And this was the sixties where if you were a reservist, you didn't really have to make
weekend meetings in summer camp.
There are other ways of doing your time of deployments for three months or a month, month
and a half, whatever.
When I got out of the Marine Corps, I went to see my mom and dad who were living in
connocia, Wisconsin.
At that point, he got pretty high up and snapped on tools.
When I was born, he was such a salesman.
So he went from no money and no nothing to.
You actually wound up kind of running that company.
I went to connocia.
There was a job opening on the connocia daily news.
And I didn't interview and lied as I often do.
They said, can you type?
And I went, yeah, and they said, how many words a minute?
And I said 35 because I knew that's what I needed.
After the interview, they said, well, you've got the job.
I came out and there was a Jojo Kobe, one of the reporters there.
I said, you should be happy.
You don't look happy.
And I said, I'll tell you the truth.
I lied.
I got out of the type at all.
And he said, me and one of the reporters will cover for you, Scott.
For two weeks, you go to adult education at the public high school and learn how to
type.
Was the job for this was, were you transcribing or what was the job?
Good job was cover reporter.
I got it.
I was not very good at what I.
So anyway, I'm up in the city room doing that.
And I hear shots out the window.
And it was cold as shit.
And I remember I said to somebody in the city room, those are shots.
Go out and check them out.
And it was like 30 below zero.
It was freezing cold.
And somebody said, no, that was a car backfire.
And I said, vapor a lot.
Cars aren't even starting now.
And there's a lot of stuff in life.
I don't know.
But I just got out of the Marine Corps and gunfire I do know.
And I'm telling you, those are shots.
And they said, why don't you go out and cover it.
So I went outside and two blocks from the newspaper at the side of the road was a city patrol car
with Mrs. Hockadol, the chief of police's wife sitting in the driver's seat where their
husband's pistol smoking in her lap and next to her Dorothy Batadas, who was the chief of
police's secretary slash mistress with half her head blown away.
It was my story.
It was the biggest story, obviously.
So they made me a police reporter.
And I realized I thought being a police reporter would be really cool because I'll cover, you
know, mob hits and all that stuff.
And I realized that you do do that, but you're all for every one of those.
You do six interviewing a woman, 15 minutes after her teenage son has died in a traffic accident.
And you're thinking about, do I get a byline?
Is this going to be on page one or page two?
And I felt like a ghoul.
There is a bulletin board with other jobs listed.
I applied for the job of a reporter on the sports desk.
I can't remember the name of the paper, but it was in American Virgin Islands.
I got the job and I was talking to a friend of mine on the phone and she lives in Long
Island and she said, when's the job start?
And I said in about six months when she said, why don't you go to New York and take an
acting class?
And I went, why?
And she said, I'll be honest with you, Scott, I read the stuff that you write in your
description of ideas and action and places isn't bad.
It's okay, but your dialogue essentially sucks.
It's stiff.
Nobody talks like that.
A minute you put words in anybody's mouth where it's a poem or short story or whatever,
you blow it.
If you have to get in front of people and say words, you'll kick you in your ass to
start to listen to the way people really talk.
And if you're doing theater, you'll be dealing with arguably the best dialogue ever
written.
And if you try to go over maybe five or ten minutes of being angry because you told me
the truth, I thought, okay, so I got my car ahead of the triumph.
I drove to New York, sold the car, got two jobs.
I looked up acting in the village voice, nothing under A, under B, it's at Berghof Studios.
I didn't know anything about it.
Call it up.
Call it Berghof Studios.
And this guy named Bill Hickey, who was one of America's greatest character actors,
nominated for a Might Have Gotten Academy Award for Conor Chathig of the...
Anyway, Bill answers the phone.
And he says, yeah, work on this, bring it by Berghof Studios Wednesday morning.
It was ODAD Poor Dad, Mom was hugging you in the closet, I'm feeling so sad.
It was the play.
Something I'm completely unsuitive for, but it was a little monologue.
I worked on it.
I go down to the basement of Berghof.
There was draining outside Wednesday morning, maybe seven or eight people sitting there to
watch.
I walk in front of Bill Hickey to start this monologue.
And for the first, and only time my life, literally a light bulb went off between my eyes.
And I thought, holy shit, I'm an actor.
That fast.
And it wasn't like, oh, I'm so fulfilled.
It was, for the first time, my life made sense to me.
My perclivity to daydream, my laziness in a lot of areas, everything made sense like
that.
And Bill saw it, and he started laughing, and he said, that's right, you're one of us.
And then he turned to the other students, and he said, Scott's not going to finish this.
He's got to go outside, walk around the block a couple of times, and think about things.
I went outside, there was a pay phone on Bank Street.
I called my mom and dad.
I said, I'm not going to the Virgin Islands, I'm not going to be a director.
They were terrified I would go back into the service, which I actually was thinking about
doing, because being in the service in a lot of ways can be rough and all that stuff.
But in other ways, it's very easy, because you don't have to make decisions about what
you're going to wear, what you're going to do, what you're going to eat.
And I like that, because I really am lazy.
I'm really like horrible, lazy human being.
Anyway, I told my dad that, and he took a second, and he gave me the best advice I could
ever have had.
He said, son, I don't really know anything about what you're telling me.
The only advice I can give you is don't give yourself any deadlines.
And I said, what do you mean?
He said, don't say, if I haven't made it in two years, I'm going to sell insurance.
He said, that's like starting a race with a lead wheel weight hung around your neck.
Infer a penny, infer a pound.
If you love it, make it your life.
And I did.
Here I am talking to you.
I'd love to zoom in on your dad for a second, because it seems like just based on what
you've sent thus far, that for a company man at that time, that seems like very unexpected
advice that would be given, that there wouldn't be any pushback.
What do you attribute that to?
Why did your dad give you that advice, do you think?
Or why did he feel comfortable?
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