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Saudi Arabia has strongly reaffirmed the One China principle during Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi's Middle East visit.
China denounces Japan for hyping up its regular military training.
And far-right candidate Jose Antonio Costa wins Chile's presidential election.
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Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi has paid an official visit this week to the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Jordan.
The trip marks his first concentrated tour of the Middle East this year, following earlier visits to Africa, Central Asia and Europe.
What were the key issues on the agenda during this visit?
And during his stop in Saudi Arabia, the Saudi side reaffirmed its firm commitment to the One China principle, stating unequivocally that it would not support any form of Taiwan independence.
What signal does this send?
For more on this, joining us on the line is Dr. Wang Jing, associate professor at Northwest University in Xi'an, China.
Professor, Foreign Minister Wang Yi's five-day trip started in the UAE, then took him to Saudi Arabia and Jordan.
How would you describe China's ties with these three countries and what kind of roles do they each play in today's Middle East?
Well, I think the trip is very important because, you mentioned, this is a very important meeting for the preparation of China-Arab states summit in the next year.
So for the chosen, I think that the three countries, the Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Jordan.
I think, on the one hand, they are the very important countries in the Arab world, because we know that Saudi Arabia and the UAE are very important foundations and bases for the Arab world, for the stability of Arab political and economic stability, and also Jordan plays a very important role for the mediation and pacifying tension in this region.
So that's why these three countries are important and, on the other hand, the three countries' relations with China are also very important because we know that during the past decade, particularly after the Belt and Road Initiative was put forward, these three countries had already set up a different cooperative mechanism with China, and these mechanisms led to very fruitful political, economic and social exchange achievements between bilateral and multilateral relations.
So that's why I think the trip is meaningful and very important.
And I think it will also pave the way for future cooperation foundations.
So that's a very historic moment.
Looking at this visit as a whole, what are your main takeaways?
Which outcomes or moments stood out to you as especially significant?
Well, I think the moments and the meetings themselves are important, because during the visits, we see that not only the Wang Yi met with the foreign ministers of different countries, but also he met with different leaders.
For example, the Jordan Kings met with Wang Yi.
So very, very privileged, I think, enjoyed by Chinese foreign ministry and offered from the Jordan kingdom signals.
So that's why I believe that this is the signal that shows that the Arab states cherished the future friendship between China and the Arab states.
And, as we mentioned that during the statements released by China and Jordan, China and Emirates and China and Saudi Arabia, they showed a lot of intentions to further expand the cooperation areas into, for example, high-tech cooperation, the new energy and other AI I mean artificial intelligence.
So that's why I think this means new potential for the future cooperation.
This is very important.
In terms of results.
As you earlier mentioned when you talked about, the next China-Arab states summit will be held in China next year.
Building on the first summit, what key issues are expected to be high on the agenda at the 2026 China-Arab summit?
Well, I think a lot of things should be highly expected.
And the first summit is the very beginning for the China-Arab summit, China-Saudi Arabia summit and China-Gulf Arab state summits.
So the second summit, I think on the one hand it means a continuation and further enhance the confidence of the bilateral and multilateral relations towards each other.
And second, I think the cooperated area will be further expanded because traditionally we talk more about infrastructure energy, political trust.
And I think, in the second round, the second summit, more areas and the fields such as, for example, the AI, such as, for example, clean energy, such as new plans for the infrastructure, where we also mentioned that the financial cooperation might also face breakthrough between China and different Arab states.
And also we cannot forget that during the past four years I mean if the second summit was held next year, I mean during the past four years after the first summit was held Actually, we have already witnessed that the very, very important achievements has already made between China and different other states.
So that's why it means a continuation of the confidence and continuation of the achievements.
So that's why I think we should highly expect that the possible new results and achievements that's for sure be witnessed in the second summit next year.
To delve further into that.
Yes, since the first summit, China-Arab cooperation has really broadened.
Traditional areas like energy and infrastructure are still moving forward.
And also in the past two or three years.
We've also seen much deeper cooperation in new energy achieves and AI.
So could you please tell us more of the new highlights and opportunities, especially those emphasized during this trip?
Well, I think on the first of all, the political trust between the different sides are very strong.
China and different states.
We trust each other and hope that the bilateral relations could be further enhanced.
The second trend was resulted from the very realistic complementary advantages between the two sides.
For example, China has the Belt and Road Initiative.
China's four global initiatives have already been widely accepted by the Arab states and also China's developing economic and technology experience could be learned by the Arab states and turned their uh found and turned their monetary motivations into a real and very uh touchable uh, this kind of achievement.
So that's why i think the two sides and the different sides share this kind of development.
The last but not the least, i think the two sides, china and the arab states, they have already realized the different achievements, very possible and visible achievements by companies, by individuals, by different groups.
And this mechanism could further encourage them to have more opportunities in the future to enhance the cooperation.
Professor, earlier you mentioned China and Arab countries have also been supporting each other on the international stage politically.
During Wang Yi's stop in Saudi Arabia, the Saudi side made very clear statements on the Taiwan question.
Crown Prince and Prime Minister Mohammed bin Salman reaffirmed Saudi Arabia's commitment to the One China principle and its opposition to outside interference in China's internal affairs, while its foreign minister stressed that Saudi Arabia will never support Taiwan independence.
How do you rate these statements?
And what do they tell us about political trust between China and Saudi Arabia, and also between China and Arab countries more broadly?
Oh, I think their statements and their attitudes are very important, of course, because we know, let's be frank, that during the past few days, we noticed that the Taiwan and so forth, their vice foreign minister visited Israel and they signed some kind of defense deals, according to some media, with Israel.
So this is a very, very direct violation of the Chinese one-China policy and a very, very direct challenge and a violation of the China's independence and sovereignty.
So that's why, at a very particular moment, the Saudi Arabia and other Arab states they mentioned that their strong attitudes about the one China policy, their firm support to the one China policy.
I think this is very, very valuable at a particular moment.
And also, on the other hand, we know that the political trust and political foundations, the very, very preconditions for any other economic, social and cultural, the technology cooperation between China and the different states.
So that's why I think it is further enhanced the foundation for the future more prosperous bilateral and market relations between China and Arab states.
So that's why I think these attitudes should be cherished.
And this is very, very valuable at a particular time right now.
Professor, one last question.
Beyond the China-Arab summit process, media reports pointed out that talks on a free trade agreement between China and GCC, the Gulf Cooperation Council, were also a key issue on the visit.
We know these negotiations have gone on for a long while.
Do you think the timing is now right for a breakthrough?
And what would it mean if an agreement were finally reached?
I think the free trade zoo talks has already, as you mentioned, lasted for many years, maybe at least for the decade.
So we have to say there were some difficulties.
There were some obstacles, maybe obstacles both from China's side and Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states.
So it's not so easy to end all these talks and a final deal could be reached within a short time.
But let's be frank.
I think that if the talks continues, if the cooperation between different fields continues, I think the free trade deal will be the final result.
It's just a matter of time.
So that's why I think right now, we highly need this patience, we highly need the confidence towards each other.
I think the free trade deal is just a very, very natural achievement, resulted from the multilateral and the bilateral cooperation between China and different Arab states.
Thanks, Professor, for those insightful analysis.
That was Dr. Wang Jing, Associate Professor at Northwest University in Xi'an, China.
This is World Today.
Stay tuned.
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Let's turn to Japan's escalating military buildup.
Japanese civilians have gathered in front of Prime Minister Sanae Takeuchi's residence in Tokyo, demanding that she retract her remarks on China's Taiwan region.
Does Takaichi completely lack knowledge of the Sino-Japanese Treaty of Peace and friendship and the Sino-Japanese Joint Statement?
Is she unable to understand it or is she even willfully ignoring it?
As a national leader, such behavior is purely inciting war.
I believe Takaichi's statement on Taiwan is clearly intentional.
This is a way to create tension.
It has been over a month since she made those remarks.
It has reached the point that she needs to take back her comments.
I do not need a prime minister who will lead Japan into war.
Why haven't other politicians spoken up and said, we retract the comments immediately?
It's precisely because of those remarks that the situation has become what it is today.
The Takaichi cabinet is facing domestic opposition to the country's expanded weapon exports.
Since taking office in October, the government has moved to lift bans on lethal arms exports and accelerate military expansion.
It also plans to export a fighter jet developed jointly with the UK and Italy.
Civil society groups have submitted a petition to Parliament saying weapon sales are irresponsible and demanding an end to the military build-up.
As a nation, Japan should adhere to its commitment to renounce war and reject the right to engage in armed conflict.
Yet today, weapons exports are being normalized and increasingly promoted.
To stop this trend, we must return to the fundamental principles grounded in the original spirit of the Constitution and take firm action to stop such practices.
Moving forward, Japan also plans to export frigates, lethal naval weapons, to Australia.
The country intends to abolish the five category restrictions on arms exports, which would allow for the unrestricted export of all types of lethal weapons.
This is the direction Japan is currently taking.
This is a serious matter that must be strongly opposed.
Japan's current three principles on the transfer of defense equipment only permit the export of five categories of equipment in rescue, transportation, early warning, surveillance and mine clearance.
Once the policy is abolished, Japan will be allowed to export a variety of equipment, including lethal weapons.
So for more on this, let's bring in Dr Rong Ying Chair, Professor at the School of International Studies at Sichuan University.
Welcome to our show, Professor.
Yes, thank you for having me.
Professor, Japanese citizens have gathered outside Takeuchi's residence, demanding she take back her remarks on Taiwan.
What does this kind of public pressure tell us about divisions or worries inside Japanese society?
It is true, I think, Go weeks particularly, most recently, I think, the concerns or the oppositions from Japanese society, not only, I think, within the entire parliament, but most vocally from society as a whole, and we're seeing the growing number of protest and others and joined by civil society, they're all asking, they are all demanding that promise that kakaichi should take, i mean chinese positions seriously by uh rejecting, uh the erroneous remarks regarding taiwan.
But most recently i related, most importantly related that demand is the concerns that expressed by the japanese society as a whole for the wrong direction, for the dangers, for the tensions that takaichi's policy that may sort of provoke to the region and consequently to japan, its own sort of development.
Professor Takaichi's Taiwan remarks came almost at the same time as moves to expand weapons exports and military buildup.
How do you see the link between these moves?
Are there historical parallels that come to mind?
That's a great question.
That's why I think the reason the Chinese and the Japanese more and more Japanese sort of people expressing their concerns and strong opposition for that, because that reminds them the bitter memory, I think the dark page of Japan's modern history, relating to the development of Japanese militarism back in, I think, 1930s.
And if anyone who knows about Japanese, that part of Japanese history, one would find the kind of developments that warring developments that echoes that part of the history.
We have seen that the Japanese I mean these right-wingers represented by Prime Minister Dakaichi and others they are using or making up excuses for so-called security or regional tensions and security to push for the agenda for militarism, for raising the budget and so on and so forth.
And that is why I think every possible effort should be made to ensure that would never happen.
And certainly China as a responsible state I mean Japan's neighbors included but most importantly, I would emphasize that the Japanese people as a whole would play a more and more important role in preventing, in opposing that from happening.
Professor, let's also discuss Japan's recent provocation involving interference with Chinese aircraft carrier training.
The Chinese Ministry of National Defense detailed that the training plan had been communicated to Japanese ships twice in advance, both times acknowledged by Japan, but Japanese jets still repeatedly intruded into the training area and later accused China of threatening behavior.
How do you rate such move from Japan?
And how's this different from, you know, normal frictions or mistakes?
And how risky is this behavior?
A great question.
It's exactly, I think, the reason.
Here we have a kind of a classical example of kind of a thief posing as a judge to cry for catching thieves, and this is a game japan has not played for the first time and as we, as evidence presented by the chinese side shows that it beyonds dispute that china, the chinese side, in when i mean the naval exercises, these warships, when they conduct The exercise that followed closely, I mean followed exactly the international practice and the international norms by notifying the Japanese side, which the Japanese side acknowledged.
But it never mentioned at the very beginning when this incident happened.
Once Chinese side presented evidence which is indisputable, the Japanese changed their tactics by challenging the so-called details, and so on and so forth.
That is, I think, the reason why.
The danger of the incident is much beyond a miscalculation or miscommunication.
It is rather a game played by the Japanese side in the hope that by playing up itself and present itself as a so-called victim, not only to distract, to get rid of the pressure, but more importantly, I think, to find excuse for pushing its military buildup.
That is the game.
That is a very dangerous game I think Japan is playing.
Indeed, on one side, Japan's military carries out dangerous tactical provocations.
On the other, the government and right-wing forces downplay or deny past aggression during the Second World War.
What does this combination of real provocations and historical revisionism say about the strategic thinking of Japan's political elites today?
Are we seeing militarism and fascism making a comeback in Japan?
I think the simple answer is that this is a game that Japan has planned and played for a long time.
Again, I think one would find that in pushing for military buildup, raising budget and find excuse for breaking free the constraints imposed by the international law in the wake of World War II,
One finds that Japan has consistently persistently, I think denying distorting, And I look it's history, I mean it's a past history of aggression.
And that is very much again putting together, place into the hand of the trick and raise the question of Japan's future, Japan's direction, by denying, by whitewashing its past sort of history of aggression against the neighbors and Asian countries.
I think Japan not only has not come to terms to its past history of aggression but, more importantly, I think Japan, with these moves, clearly shows the thinking that they want to not only change, turn over that part of history, most importantly, want to pursue its unprepared ground for the revival of militarism, which I think has brought up numerous sufferings, destructions to the region and Japan as a society as included.
I think you made a very good point.
What's Japan trying to achieve in the region today?
Professor, help us understand this argument, because some analysis suggests Japan's move aimed to intentionally create regional tension to strengthen US security guarantee and tie itself more closely to Washington's so-called Indo-Pacific strategy against China.
How do you see this?
Japan's relationship with the United States.
The Security, Bilateral Security Alliance has kind of played a role.
On the one hand, the United States, for its own global or regional strategy.
It wanted to use Japan, wanted to ensure Japan is plays a kind of role, particularly in the security field, that serves US interests.
On the other hand, I think Japan understands very well that the United States, for some reasons they are undergoing kind of a strategic readjustment and changes that Japan feels that arguably gives its sort of opportunities or rooms to push for its own agenda, its security agenda.
Do you think this is something Washington wants?
Do you think Washington would now want to be dragged by Japan into maybe a military conflict that would jeopardize these hard-won, stable ties with China?
No, definitely not.
That's why I think it was reported that during the telephone conversation with Takahichi, President Trump made it very clear that he did not want to see escalation, did not want Takahichi to provoke escalation in its relationship with China.
And because a stable relationship with China is President Trump's top priorities diplomacy for this year and particularly next year.
Having said that, I think President Trump's strategy or approach to this relationship has also sent us some contradictory or mixed signals, because He stopped short of fair-telling or asking Takeuchi to retract her remarks.
And most, I think, to further complicate this sort of situation, the strategy of Trump administration, because of its global, I mean, strategic adjustment, and also asking or encouraging Japan to so-called take more responsibilities in terms of security.
And that is something I think gives them the reason, or rooms for Japan, for Takeuchi and his government, to pursue its security agenda.
And the danger is that I think the revival or Japan's remilitarization could become a kind of a genius out of the bottle.
Once, I think, revival of Japan's militarism comes out, that would be, I think the United States would bear the consequences, if not more.
So it should be the common and the joint efforts for United States and the regional countries, China included, work together to not only to guard against the revival of Japanese militarism but, the most important, to work together to make effort to stop and prevent that from happening.
Thanks, Dr. Rongyin.
This is World Today.
We'll be back after a short break.
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As China's 15th five-year plan approaches, rising trade barriers, including tariffs, and the global shift toward a green economy are adding new headwinds.
What's China's long-term economic outlook?
And what forces will shape the country's future?
And how will China engage with the rest of the world?
My colleague Tianwei spoke with Kristalina Georgieva, Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund, about China's economic outlook.
Where do you think the global economy is going this year and particularly next year?
The global economy this year is resilient and performing better than we feared when the year started.
What a relief.
We are projecting 3.2% growth this year, 3.2% growth globally next year.
And that is quite impressive, given the major transformation forces in play, from geopolitics to technology, to the demography, and given the trade tensions that have impacted the year.
But With 32 and very high level of debt in many countries.
This is better than we feared, but less than we need.
And less than historically growth has been prior to COVID.
Latest IMF estimate.
The economic growth rate for China this year, next year, have all been raising.
Tell us why.
We have been observing the developments in China over this year.
And our conclusion is one China is resilient and policymakers here have acted wisely responsibly, to support the economy.
Fiscal support, monetary policy support, have helped the Chinese economy, in a turbulent year, to perform well.
Second, China's exports are quite competitive and actually exports have increased this year and that gives impetus to growth.
At the same time, we strongly recommend to China to shift its growth model from one that is based on exports to domestic consumption.
Why?
The Chinese economy is just too big to continue to rely on exports for growth.
And the Chinese society, 14 billion people.
This is a consumer base that can be very effective in boosting growth potential for China.
We see some of the earlier policies already being done and implemented about boosting consumption, for example, trying to support people's welfare.
But it seems that it has not necessarily transformed the picture yet.
So many are asking whether it is still a matter of time, or a matter of degree, or a matter of different directions.
It is a matter of degree.
We recommend a forceful, comprehensive set of measures that address the property sector resolutely, that build confidence in consumers to spend money through social support measures and that create a reform environment that makes consumption more attractive in how performance of policymakers is assessed.
We see in China tremendous opportunity for this shift in the development model today, because China has very talented people, China has an innovation-based economy and China has a lot that people can enjoy and benefit from, especially in services.
We also see that the leadership in China recognizes that the rest of the world would like to see China being more balanced.
And the rest of the world is getting a bit scared that maybe, if China continues with export driven growth, they may find it more difficult to develop their own economies.
I want to pay my respect to Chinese leadership for the determination for China to be an open economy and responsible economy.
And that, I know, is one of the reasons why, in the 15th five-year plan, there is this focus on consumption.
This being said, China is big.
Changing direction takes time.
And also in the Chinese society, saving is something that people value.
I respect that.
It is personal security, but if there is security that is provided to people and confidence in their future, then they can enjoy more things in life.
And I also trust that the younger generation of Chinese they may be more amenable to this new growth model.
We see industrial policies being widely spread all over the world these days, particularly over the past two to three years, while economies struggle to find their competitive edge.
What has been the impact of industrial policy looking at the performances of economies, and how do you see the spread of this policy and its future potential?
We are concerned about it.
We actually analyzed this increase in industrial policy and what we find is that the record is mixed.
Yes, there are market failures.
They determine the use of industrial policy to correct these market failures.
For example, here in China, the reorientation towards environmental sustainability did benefit from industrial policy oriented towards green technologies electric vehicles, solar panels.
But once this is corrected, then the support should be withdrawn and let the market decide how to allocate resources.
Our advice to China is Set a high standard.
We are not saying do not use industrial policy, but use it prudently.
For the rest of the world, it is the same picture.
Countries are moving in industrial policy sometimes without that high standard being met.
And our advice is be careful.
Misallocation of resources means that, instead of enriching your society, you're actually causing loss of productivity.
The 15th Five-Year Plan you mentioned earlier already in several of your answers.
I want to go a little bit more specific on that.
You see the outline.
It suggests shifts of consumption habits and models, supply chain possibilities innovation ecosystems, and the list goes on.
How would you assess the nature of China's 15th five-year plan, black and white, already put out there in front of the world?
And also, what could that mean for such an important economy?
What we see today is positive because the emphasis is put on three things.
One, high quality growth.
And this is where the emphasis on innovation is really valuable.
Two a very clear objective for China to reach by 2035 the kind of moderate development nation status on the basis of GDP per capita.
And that is really good because it means it is people-focused, it is people-centered.
And three, emphasis on consumption.
Because if China just simply cannot continue to grow on the basis of experts, The rest of the world may then be tempted to become protectionist against China.
And China, the country that strongly stands by open and inclusive global economy, of course wouldn't want to see that happening.
Plus, the potential for improving the quality of life of people in China by shifting towards more services from goods to services, more domestic consumption than export.
This is going to be beneficial for the well-being of the Chinese people.
And I wish all the very best to everybody in China.
That was Kristalina Georgieva, Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund, speaking with Tian Wei.
This is World Today.
We'll be back.
Far-right candidate Jose Antonio Costa has won the presidential election in Chile.
Costa won over 58% of the vote, defeating leftist candidate Janet Jara.
Joe Richards reports from San Diego.
Celebrations ran on late into the night in Chile after a landslide victory in the presidential elections for the ultra-conservative leader, José Antonio Kast.
The 59-year-old lawyer and former congressman took 58 of the vote, defeating the Communist Party candidate, Jeanette Jara.
The victory for Kast marks a major shift to the right in this country of around 18 million people.
These were polarised elections and cast campaigned on a platform of an iron fist approach to dealing with issues that have dominated the public, debates such as crime, security and immigration.
Amongst his supporters on Sunday night were flags with former military ruler, General Augusto Pinochet.
On fighting crime, Kast admires the policies of Nayib Bukele in El Salvador.
He has said he wants to build a shield to protect the nation along the country's long border and proposes building walls and digging ditches to stop immigration.
He has also pledged to implement sharp austerity measures.
On Sunday night, President-elect Kast spoke with the current leftist president, Gabriel Boric, on the phone.
That conversation is broadcast on television.
It's part of Chile's political tradition, as the handover of power begins and Chile veers to the right.
That was Joe Richards reporting.
For more on this, let's have Zhang Xixue, Distinguished Professor, College of International Relations at Sichuan International Studies University.
Thanks for joining us, Professor.
Okay, thank you.
Professor, to begin with could you please introduce Mr Kunst to our audience and briefly outline his political career.
Well, he's only 59 years old and his ancestors came from Germany.
And he worked as a lawyer for quite a few years.
And also he served as a congressman for 16 years.
And then in 2019, he organized a political party.
So this is his third time running for president and congratulations to him and he is now successful.
As you mentioned, this was the third bid for presidency, and this time he was successful.
What do you see as the core reasons behind this victory?
You know, if you want the people to cast doubt There are votes for you.
You need to say something which can be attractive to the people.
And people in Chile are quite concerned about the so-called crime and also illegal migration.
Well, relatively speaking, I would point out that, compared with other countries in the region, Chile is relatively quite safe, I would say.
But still people are concerned over the past several years that Crimes are rising.
And just a few days ago, I watched a video.
Terrible.
It's really terrible.
People just attack people and grab anything they can take.
And so the people in Chile want to see changes.
And Costa says that he's going to fight against these crimes.
He's going to improve the security for the general public.
So I think that kind of slogans can attract people to vote for him.
As you said, Costa won the election under the slogan, the force of change.
His key policy proposals including cutting public spending, reducing taxes, cracking down on crime and adopting a tougher stance on immigration.
And reports say they differ sharply from the policy direction of Chile's previous governments.
How do you assess his political agenda in the might he face in implementing these policies?
In the campaign you can say anything you wish to say.
But after you come to power, then you're going to take realistic policies.
I think the most difficult job for him to do would be to cut public spending.
If you want to cut public spending, then social benefits might be negatively affected.
So then the public will not be happy about you.
So I think this is a tough job for him.
Let's see what will happen.
Professor, China has congratulated Mr. Kast on his election as Chile's new president.
Chile, we know, was the first South American country to establish diplomatic relations with China, and bilateral ties have continued to deepen since then.
How do you expect China-Chile relations to evolve under Mr. Kast's administration?
Yes, you are right.
Chile was the first country in South America to establish diplomatic relationship with China.
And also there are several other first.
Well, Chile was the first to reach the WTO accession agreement with China. in America.
And Chile, as a matter of fact, was the first country to sign FTA.
Oh, well, I will say China and Chile signed the so-called free trade agreement many years ago.
And that was the first country fda and for china and also um, chile was the first country in in america to uh to recognize china, china's market economy status.
So you can see that china's relationship with chile is very good.
And also i want to point out that china's relationship with chile or any other countries in the region, is not based on ideology.
So no matter the country is run by the leftist or rightist party well, China wants to continue to push forward this kind of bilateral relationship, because our relationship is based on mutual benefit, not on ideology.
So I don't believe that the new president of Chile will take different policies towards China.
Lots of opportunities for cooperation in the future.
Speeding on that.
Looking ahead, what new opportunities do you see for bilateral cooperation between the two countries?
Chile is a country which is quite open to the outside world, and China is also willing to open its door.
So we can see that we have common interests.
And Chile is very rich in natural resources, and other kinds of agricultural resources.
And China needs these kinds of things.
I believe that China will continue to make investments in Chile in the mining sector agriculture, and at the same time, China will continue to import raw materials and agricultural products, all kinds of things.
So also both sides are determined to take more effective policies to implement this so-called Belt and Road Initiative.
So I believe that in the near future, our cooperation in economic as well as in political or people-to-people exchanges will continue to move forward.
Thanks, Professor, for those insightful analysis.
That was Jiang Shixue, Distinguished Professor, College of International Relations at Sichuan International Studies University.
This is World Today.
Stay tuned.
China has approved two electric sedan models with Level 3 autonomous driving systems for public road use, marking a national first.
Autonomous driving ranges from Level 0 to Level 5, with Level 3 enabling conditional self-driving while requiring a human driver to remain ready to intervene.
The country outlined conditional approval for level 3 vehicle production in September, as it accelerates the adoption of autonomous driving.
So for more on this, my colleague Song Ruixin spoke with Andy Mock, a tech analyst and a professor at Beijing Foreign Studies University.
Andy, as a tech analyst, have you personally experienced riding in level 3 or level 4 capable autonomous vehicles, either in China or abroad?
Actually, I have, Ruixin.
Where and when?
What stood out to you most?
Well, in different parts of the world.
So yeah, you know so, and I have to say, you know, it may sound very exciting, but it's actually in a way kind of boring.
And I think that's how it's meant to be, because, again, there's a technology level.
There's a legal policy level.
And I think there is also a passenger psychology level as well.
And I think at the passenger psychology level layer, you know some people maybe most people you know would find this a little bit alarming.
And I think so they're designed.
The vehicles are designed to be very reassuring, not go too fast, not take turns too hard, which can be a completely opposite experience from some human taxi drivers, right.
Personally, my only experience related to autonomous driving was something like going out to have a dinner with a friend and watching the car park itself.
But it sounds like completely different.
So Andy, for our audiences who may be familiar with autonomous driving as a concept but not with those technical classification, could you briefly explain how the different levels of autonomous driving I mean from level one through level five are technically defined?
So, first of all, there's five levels.
And level one is called driver assistance.
And all that really means is that the car can help the driver with one thing at a time.
So years ago, back in the Stone Age, it was called cruise control.
So you could go at one speed on the highway without keeping your foot on the accelerator.
So that's level one.
Level two is partial acceleration.
And again, all this means is that The car can do a little bit more.
Maybe can steer and accelerate and brake together and here, but you still have to watch the road.
And it really isn't autonomous in the way I think most people use the term.
But here's where it gets very, very interesting.
You know, level three is kind of strange.
It's sort of in the middle, right?
But here's the real thing.
That matters is.
Level four is complete automation, but only within certain geographical areas.
So, you know, the word that most people would use is geofenced.
But I think the industry term would be, you know, operational design domain.
So it might be you know you can only go in this neighborhood, or only this part of the city, which is level four.
And that's called high automation.
And then finally, level five is, I think, what most people think of when they hear autonomous vehicles.
You know, this is a car, a truck, a bus that can drive anywhere on its own.
So that essentially are the different levels.
Okay, then the approved level three.
At the current stage, the motors today are limited to specific geofenced expressways.
Then how do you expect these road trials to be expanded over time?
Well, I think actually, level four is rolled out both in the US, China and other parts of the world like the UAE.
So meaning that, you know, there, there are There's no actual human driver.
There may be a safety, a safety driver human sitting in the car as backup.
But again, that's not technically necessary.
But the key point here, making it level four, is that the car can drive by itself, but it is subject to a defined set of conditions.
Again, this is called ODD.
And, you know, it's basically when and where is the machine actually in charge, right?
So you know, an interesting example of this would be WeRide, which launched in several cities, but in Abu Dhabi as well, with robo taxis in partnership with Uber.
So you can use your Uber app call a robo taxi get in, it would take you to your destination.
So in San Francisco, this is available as well.
So I think we are we are in a technically a level four world.
But the question that how quickly it rolls out is not technological but I think maybe governmental and maybe a corporate decision based on potential liability.
So is that a safety assurance or challenges that regulators may face?
Absolutely.
So, you know, again, the issue here, Ruising, is that it's not the technology right now.
It's basically, you know, what happens if something goes wrong?
Not only who's responsible, I think is a key question.
But if you think about, you know, the PR, the public relations aspect of this as well, that could, you know, again be something that would be damaging not only for a particular company but perhaps the industry as well.
So I think the trend is very clear.
We're moving into a world where we will see more and more L4, meaning cars or vehicles that drive themselves in certain defined zones.
And that doesn't mean that you can get in this autonomous car and have it take you wherever you want to go.
It has a limited For the sake of simplicity, a limited geographic area it can operate in.
Then what about broader commercialization?
I mean beyond privately owned passenger vehicles.
China seems to be making faster progress in more industrialized or operationalized autonomous driving use cases.
In sectors such as ride-hailing, for example, Baidu's Apollo Go, now operating in more than 20 cities.
Then, what are the key operational and technological and business model lessons are emerging from these large-scale pilots?
Yeah, that's a great question racing.
So you know, again, it's not that it's not possible to sell privately owned autonomous vehicles.
But I think the decision generally has been made is this is a very bad idea.
Just because it's likely to cause a lot of accidents and other problems and that the better business model, operational model is fleets.
So meaning you're providing the autonomous mobility as a service, right?
So just like DD right or Uber, except with the robo taxi, and that this is a way to mitigate some of the user risk and, you know, to you know, maybe put put it in maybe not such a positive way.
But you know, some people in the industry will say people are stupid, right?
And if you put a dangerous appliance in their hands, bad things will happen.
And I think this is one of the ways to mitigate that.
But I see one of the most sensitive milestones or controversial paths in autonomy is the removal of the safety driver.
Companies like Geely's Cao Cao are announcing plans to transition from operations with safety drivers to fully unmanned deployment.
So Andy, what does this shift indicate about the maturity of the underlying technology, and how much does it reflect growing regulatory confidence versus operational necessity?
I think it shows all of that.
Right.
And I think, again, it's an inevitable trend and it's a question of not if, but when.
And again there's a balance that has to be struck here that you know, some companies you know may be in a hurry to do this.
As well as you know many governments you know municipal governments, provincial governments, national governments may take a much more cautious approach.
So there's a balance, of course.
But I think the trend is clear.
And what's very interesting is what this means.
Is you know again?
We're talking about L4 autonomous vehicles here.
That once you take out, you know the need for any kind of human intervention.
The car can be, or the vehicle can be, completely redesigned.
So you don't need a steering wheel.
You don't need the seats all facing forward.
You, of course, don't need an accelerator or brake pedal.
So that opens up some new possibilities that I think are pretty exciting.
And then, given what we've seen in the EV market, the electric vehicle market in China, we've seen not only the ability of Chinese companies to to deliver high-quality, extremely cost-competitive vehicles, but some with really eye-catching, award-winning design, showing the creativity one can apply.
And I think this is something we can look forward to as we make this transition to more of an L4 world.
That was Professor Andy Mock from Beijing Foreign Studies University.
That's all the time for this edition of World Today with Mika Anna.
Thank you so much for listening.
Bye for now.
