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Hi, my name'sJosh. I'm from the podcast TheImperfects, where we interview well-known people who look like they have perfectlaws, but like most ofus, in fact all ofus, they're often far fromit.
We interview people like James Clea and AdamGrant.
What do you do with the feeling of being animposter?
It's really tempting to trust your own judgment over otherpeople's.
What you're forgetting is that other people see you moreobjectively.
And I think what that means is if multiple people believe inyou, it's probably time to believethem.
Listen to The Imperfects on the iHotRadioapp, ApplePodcast, or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Welcome to Stuff You ShouldKnow, a production ofiHotRadio.
Hey and welcome to The SalsaCast.
This is Josh onChuck. I'mtomato.
He'sonion. Jerry's the chilihere.
And you put ustogether, chop usup, put us in ablender, squish us under yourarmpit, let us drip down the side of yourchest, into abowl, then you've got stuff you shouldknow.
Just two guys trying to recapture themagic.
That'sright. That's been irretrievably lostforever.
Soanyway,Salsa,right?
Yeah. People like to saySalsa.
I'm glad somebody said that to get it out of theway.
I feel like we would have gotten in trouble had we not actually saidit.
Yeah. Now we can justmove.
Yeah, let's moveon. BecauseSalsa, ofcourse, what we're talking about is the stuff that comes in a jar at the grocery store that's loaded with high-freaked toast corn syrup that you put onto tortillas and shovel in your mouth just as Mexicans have done for thousands ofyears.
Yes. Notalways. Ifyou, there's plenty out there that aren't loaded with high-freaked toast cornsyrup.
But youknow, a lot of the big jarred stuff that you find in a little silver caddybeside, right beside thechips.
Yes. A lot of that stuffis.
Soyeah, a lot of the stuff in the jar has gotten good in recentyears.
And you can actually think thatthe, I don't want to say cheapstuff.
The moregeneric, super American versions for laying the groundwork for those better versions tocome.
Sure. But what we're doing is just talking about that thing that you dip your chipin, that we love that hada, that's still verypopular, but that gotvery, very famous in the late 80s and 90s as sort of America's new favorite condiment outsellingketchup, very famously in1991.
And then it overtook cats up in1990s.
That'sright. And we're going to talk all aboutSalsa.
This is a Dave Roozejoint.
And Dave helped us out withthis.
And he foundsomebody. I don't even know who thiswas.
He just describes him as a Mexican college student whosaid, watchit.
Watching someone shovel Salsa with a tortilla chip is strange toMexicans, like how an American would feel watching someone drink salad dressing out of abottle.
I do take issue a littlebit.
I get thepoint. But I think that would be an appropriate thing to say if we were just eating it out of thejar, like shoveling it like directly like a drink into ourmouth.
You know what Imean? Ido.
But the point this guy ismaking, and I was being a troll earlier when I was saying that it was authentic just like Mexicansdo.
Eating Salsa with chips is thoroughlyAmerican.
And if you go toMexico, they don't serve chips in Salsa because maybe a better analogy would be like if you went to Mexico and theyserved, well chips andketchup.
How aboutthat? That's a very directanalogy.
Although I will say I have been to some super great authentic places in Mexico City that would give you the house specialty Salsa with the large handmadetoastadas.
And you know their handmaid because they'reweird, irregularlyshaped.
And they put like five or six of those in a big wooden bowl and you can kind of break those apart and eat them with yourSalsa.
I've seen that plenty intimes.
Yes. Had you looked around at that restaurant in MexicoCity, you would have noticed that you were the only one who was servedthat.
And it was because you were wearing your American flag tanktop.
Nottrue, myfriend. It's on themenu.
Mexico City is prettygreat.
Huh. It's thebest. I think we talked about itrecently,right?
Yeah. We talked about it when I gothome.
And then since I went on thattrip, you went on a trip and you had already been there beforeanyway.
Butyeah, we gotto, youknow, reminisce a bittogether.
I remember it was the brutalism episode that we talked about my tripto.
Yeah,probably. That wasgreat.
Anyway,yes, Mexico City iswonderful.
If you can make it down there or over there upthere, youshould.
But should we talk about the origins ofSalsa?
Yeah. Becauseagain, let's just let's just spell thisout.
Salsa in Mexico is acondiment.
Okay.Okay. I think that's prettyclear.
I just wanted to makesure.
Yes, let's go on to theorigins.
That is the stuff you should know waythough.
What overstating something fivetimes?
Just to get out thehammer, beat people over the head withit.
I feel like that's the Josh from stuff you should know way atleast.
Well, people are busy when they'relistening.
So, you neverknow. It might take that that third or fourthmention.
They'd belike,wow, I was watching dishes and I didn't even hear until that lastone.
Youknow,thanks,Chuck.
That's very supportive ofyou.
I wasthinking, youknow, something we coulddo.
Yeah. As if we wanted to make sure that somebody got the point we're trying to make to make sure they're payingattention, we could just say something likebeep.
Right. And then insert the the fact that we're trying to getacross.
So they'll really payattention.
Yeah. That's a goodpoint.
So if you want to go back to the origins ofSalsa, you would have to go back thousands of years inMesoamerica.
Because in Central and SouthAmerica, they really loved to grow chilies andtomatoes.
And you put chilies and tomatoestogether.
You're going to have some kind of asalsa.
Yeah. Imean, that's essentially the basic ingredients forsalsa.
You could makethose, you can make it salsa with just those two things you reallycould.
And people do some peopledo.
Yeah. Although over theyears, people have added to it more andmore.
Butyeah, as far back as aboutnine, 10,000 yearsago, people were making something similar tosalsa.
Like we would recognize it as salsatoday.
And it just kept getting more and more and more advanced and moreexpansive.
Right. At a few thousand years oftinkering, something's going to get a little more advanced and salsa is nodifferent.
Yeah. Forsure. The first person that we found that has kind of written about this was a Franciscan priest named Bernardino deSahagun.
I have no idea how to pronouncethat.
Sahagun?Sahagun.S-A-H-A-G-U-N.
There was arecord. He wrote a lot about the Aztec culture and specifically in his Florentinecodex.
He wrote about a sauce in a food market or different kinds of sauces in a foodmarket.
And to no cheatsline, it's probably not righteither.
But I'll just read through some of this as aquote, hotsauce,sauces, reduces shredded food withchili, with squashseeds, withtomatoes, with smokedchili, with hotchili, with yellowchili, with mild red chilisauce, yellow chilisauce, hot chilisauce, bird excrementsauce.
Mm-hmm. S-A-S-A-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-S-SYeah, veryclearly.
Andagain, this stuff had been around for thousands ofyears.
And they were just selling it like it wasnothing.
Because it wasnothing.
Because inMexico, salsa is acondiment.
That'sright. Traditionallyprepared, and theAztecs, and still you'll see thesetoday.
And infact, I've won in mykitchen.
I think youdo,too,right?
Yeah. I also have a mosa maker that you got me aswell.
Oh, that'sright. A mocha hetay is a lava rock mortar andpestle.
They'revery, veryheavy.
If you get like a real dealone, I can recommend this as agift.
Like a housewarming gift tosomeone, apartment warminggift.
Like you can spend like 50 to 70 bucks on like areally, really nice heavy-duty real deal mochahetay.
And it's a great gift forsomeone.
Because when you pull this thing out at a dinnerparty, and you're grinding the either salsa together tableside, or if you're making some guacamole tableside, it's a really kind of fancy fun thing todo.
Notfancy, butfun. It really warms whatever structure you're trying towarm.
Agreed. So thechili, sotomato, we need to make sure everybody knows it's tomato is indigenous toMesoamerica,right?
I think you kind of intimated thatearlier.
Correct. Same withchilies.
And when the Colombian exchangebegan, specifically when Christopher Columbus tried chilies for the firsttime, he compared them to blackpepper.
Because that was probably the spiciest thing you'd ever tasted in hislife.
And inSpanish, you call thatpimento.
And so that's why inEnglish, we call chiliespeppers.
But really chili is a nooklaword.
I think she'schili.Yeah.
And then they switched the eye to anIan.
Here wego.Yeah, Imean, I've never heard the word pepper said by people fromMexico.
Maybe theydo. But I've always just heard them callchilies.
Sure. Because youknow, Christopher Columbus got itwrong.
Got another thingwrong.
That'scrazy. Who tothought?
The word salsa was already a word inSpanish.
It was a generic word forsauce.
And I think it was a Spanish priest in a dictionary published in1571.
That actually put that in the dictionary and Aztec style to made a chili condiment listed as salsa in that 16th centurydictionary.
Caseclosed. I think that's taking a break time if you askme.
Oh,sure. Let's doit. You wantto?
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Hi, my name'sJosh. I'm from the podcast The Imperfects where we interview our well-known people who look like they have perfectlies, but like most ofus, infact, all ofus, they're often far fromit.
We interview people like James Clea and AdamGrant.
What do you do with the feeling of being animposter?
It's really tempting to trust your own judgment over otherpeoples.
What you're forgetting is that other people see you moreobjectively.
And I think what that means is if multiple people believe inyou, it's probably time to believethem.
Listen to The Imperfects on the iHotRadioapp, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's and I'm GuillermoDiaz.
And now we're back with another season of our podcast Unpacking the Toolbox where Guillermo and I will be rewatching the show to officially unpack season three ofscandal.
Unpredictable. You don't see itcoming.
It's a wild wildride. The twists and turns in season threemesmerizing, but also we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like BellamyYoung, ScottFoley, TonyGoldwyn, DebbieAllen, CarrieWashington.
So manypeople. Even more shocking assassinations from Papa and Mama Pope andyes, Katie and I's famous teeth pulling scene that kicks off aromance.
And it was peakTV. This is new scandal content for youreyes, for yourears, for yourhearts, for yourminds.
Well, suit upgladiators.
Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for an even more behind thescenes.
Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Hi, I'm DannyShapiro, host of the Hit Podcast FamilySecrets.
Imaginethis. Your parents sign away your childhood to an academic psychological study that tracks you all the way into your young adultlife.
And how aboutthis? Your middle school kid stumbles onto something he never should have seen orknown, something from your secretlife.
And what about if your sister is very publiclytried, convicted and sent to prison when really she was just telling her long buriedtruths?
These tough questions are just a few that we'll be grappling with on our upcoming 10th season of FamilySecrets.
With over 34 million downloads and nearly 100 unique stories in ourfeed, we continue to admire and champion our guests whose empowering stories of resilience never fail toamaze, enlighten andinspire.
Listen to season 10 of Family Secrets on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get yourpodcasts.
So it's not like it's also an immediate hit over inEurope.
First ofall, Christopher Columbus had misdirected everybody and they thought it was basically like blackpepper.
Thechilies, I should saywere, but the bigger problem was that people inEurope, and it's where we've talked about thisbefore, people in Europe initially thought tomatoes were a deadly part of the nightshadefamily.
You did not want to eat atomato.
It was toxic at the veryleast, potentially deadly combined with something that was kind of like blackpepper.
Why would you ever want to eat something likethat?
But slowly butsurely, almost the1700s, a guy named Antonio Latini became the first person to write down a recipe for what you would recognize assalsa, even though he called it Spanish style tomatosauce.
Yeah, I guess he wasItalian.
And so they were just liking it to like regular tomatosauce,maybe.
I think so because the basis of it is pretty muchtomatoes, but it has everything else like you would want chilipeppers,onions,time, which is I guess a traditional ingredient found outside of Mexico forsalsa.
Yeah, but combining the hot chilies with thetomato, I think he also threw in theirsalt,oil, and vinegar at the very end of thisrecipe, littlegross, but says it is a very tastysauce, both for boiled dishes or anythingelse.
Boileddishes. Boiledbacon.
Yeah,God. I lovebacon.
Do you remember that and better offdead?
No, I don't rememberthat.
It's myboiled,boiled, the mom and a junkie's ex mom boiledeverything, and at one point she's serving bacon and it's boiled in like this kind of weird light green whitishcolor.
It has reallygood. I remember her making that was a weird part of that movie that everything she made wasstrange.
Mm-hmm. Frenchfry.Yeah.
That's goodstuff. So the other way that the clemening exchange worked obviously was things in Europe were introduced to the newworld.
And all of a sudden things like onion would comealong, or although they did have wildonion, is indigenous to NorthAmerica, butgarlic,cilantro, believe it ornot, not indigenous to NorthAmerica.
Cumin.Nuts. All these kind of unique vegetable oils and animalfats.
That comes Mexico's way and they'relike,oh, we know just how to usethis.
So thank you for introducing us toit.
Yeah, it'sweird. If you look around theinternet, you'll see that some people claim that animal fats and vegetable oils are not indigenous toMesoamerica.
And of course they are because there's animals walking around that have fat and there's vegetables there that havefat.
Yeah. But apparently they did not make great use of thisstuff.
Like they didn't use fats veryoften.
They usually charred stuff or grilled it or boiledit.
And then they would add likesalsa, fat-freesalsa, as like the condiment toit.
Butyeah, I found that kind of mind blowing because if you stop and thinkabout, there's a lot of Mexicanfood, like actual authentic Mexican food that isn't fatty atall.
It's just kind of charred with a sauce that has no fattoo.
It'sinteresting. I just never thought aboutthat.
Yeah. And you said a key thing theretoo, which we shouldmention, which isfat-free.
That's one of the reasons salsa became so big in the 80s and 90s because that was during the golden age of everything must befat-free.
So salsa waslike, youknow, it wasn't some fattycondiment.
They're for no fatty condimentsreally.
Or were there another thing you got aboutit.
Chunky style fattycondiment.
Yeah. Ohgod. So now we're going to talk about a couple of othersauces.
And that sounds like something from a future movie orsomething.
Remember it's like the beer that just it'swhite.
It's just all whitecan.
It just says beer in like a thick blackfont.
Oh,yeah. They had that in LA on my first visit yearsago.
Yeah. You got me a can ofit.
Did Ireally? Did I see you can init?
Yeah. So that's exactly what that label would looklike.
Exactly.Right.Generic.
We're going to talk about a couple of things now that are close tosalsa, butnot.
And that is mole and hotsauce.
We're not going to spend too much time on this because I think most people kind of know thedifference.
But the line can kind of beblurred.
I would say the main difference in mole is that mole is it's basically always pureaids.
It's not going to be it's never going to bechunky.
Kind of the same with hotsauce, but mole also usually haslike, Imean, if you got a good molegoing, you're talking15,20, up to 30 or moreingredients.
That's kind of what makes mole amole.
Yeah. So you have a really sophisticated layered tastes withmole.
That can belike, it can betangy.
It can also be kind of like weirdly raisin a year mushroomy or something likethat.
It'sdifferent. But as far as a person walking around Mexico isconcerned, that'd be like comparing ketchup togravy.
They're justdifferent.
Yes, they both go on yourfood, but in different ways and different contexts and differentamounts.
And gravy is probably not even a goodexample, but it's the best I can come upwith.
But salsa meanssauce, but mole is sauce because as everyone who's listened to this episode up to this point knows salsa is acondiment, not asauce.
Yeah. So you would add it to the top of a taco or atoastera, whereas themole, it would belike, youknow, chickenmole, it typically has like the chicken completely drenched in the sauce when it hits thetable.
Right. Like the very famous joke inMexico, you want some chicken with thatmole, but then they say that inSpanish.
And the other thing is hotsauce, ofcourse, also different hot sauce meant tobe, although there were some super hotsauces, hot sauces generally only hot and meant tobe, youknow, dabbed on a few drops at a time and also not chunky and also usually hasvinegar, which you're not going to find in a lot ofsalsa.
No, not atall. And apparently hot sauce itself traces itself back toMassachusetts.
The very beginning of the 19thcentury.
That was where it camefrom, but it got pretty popular south of the border as well because it does involve chilies in some form orfashion.
Usually it's chili vinegar and salt are the threeingredients.
And there's some good stuff outthere, butyeah, it's not reallysalsa.
Although as we'llsee, is it chips and salsatime?
We're going to havesome.
I would love some after researching allthis, which by theway, it's a hat tiptoday.
Big thanks for helping us out with thisone.
Big hattip. Now I say we hold off on the chips andsalsa.
That's surprising because we have togo, we haveto, Imean, chips and salsa is an Americanthing.
Like hesaid, so we got to go back to kind of when this hit the states in a bigway.
And anyone who knows the history of North American knows that a lot of the United States used to be Mexicanterritory.
Texas,Arizona, NewMexico,Utah,Nevada,California, a lot ofColorado, wasMexico.
But once that was no longerMexico, there were still a lot of people livingthere.
Mexicancommunities, Mexicanculture, Mexicanfoods.
And so it should come as no surprise that Texas and California and New Mexico and Arizona and places like that have always had and still continue to have a thriving Mexican food scenethere.
And this was true back in the 1920s and 30s when salsa kind of came on thescene.
Yeah. And so the collision between often anglo or other kind of European settlers in this area colliding with former Spanish settlers and indigenous people in thearea, they kind of came together to form like kind of a hybrid between Mexican and what would be Americancuisine.
So things like Tex-Mex or Cali-Mex or Southwest-Mex wasborn, which was originally at least authentic Mexicandishes, but kind of toned down a littlebit, made a littleblender, made a little more Yorkshirepudding-y.
You know what Imean?Yeah, not ashot, made for the Americanpalate.
