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I moved to Palm Springs, I got my first knee replacement.
And so I was here in my condo watching a ton of television.
And I was also watching a ton of television because I was on a lot of pills.
That's my sister, Brett, talking about twin knee surgeries she had last year.
Brett's a casting director, a performance coach for corporate people who need to present well.
And like me, someone who watches hours and hours of TV.
I mean, I'm so grateful that television is what it is today, because I had so many options that would take my mind off of the pain.
And one of the ones I felt less guilty about watching was Love on the Spectrum.
To give some context, Love on the Spectrum is a reality show on Netflix which I first learned about from Brett.
Its second season came out in January.
It's really sweet and tender, and I'll tell you all about it in a minute.
But to give some more context, when Brett says she feels less guilty watching it, that's because her television taste, like many of us, is not always so refined.
I love cults.
I went through a big phase not that long ago of true crimey stuff.
I love... I watch a lot of reality TV, but not housewives-y stuff.
How do you categorize this content as, like... good for people and potentially bad for people.
I don't know if you can divvy it up that way, but I wonder what falls into that category for you.
I think that anything that feels exploitative in a way that the people themselves don't seem to have really signed on for,
Like the shows where it's so produced and they are fed alcohol and God knows what else.
Like I think this is probably very bad for women for the most part bad for America, like bad, just bad for all of us.
And then there are reality shows that are sweeter or that teach you something or that probably are really relatable, where it's like I'm not alone in this.
That seems to be the case with Love on the Spectrum.
Love on the Spectrum is about various wonderful humans that are neurodivergent, dating and finding love.
I don't want to be alone.
I want to find someone i haven't dated in 33 years.
You could imagine i have to kiss many frogs to find the right guy.
Nope, everyone is different.
Love on the spectrum follows multiple people on the autism spectrum on their dating journeys.
Sometimes there are setups, other times speed dating events.
There's often beautiful support coming from siblings, parents or dating coaches that the show brings in.
And, even more often, countless relatable moments of people struggling and doing their best to relate to one another.
In other words, it's a reality show that seems genuinely helpful to participants and viewers alike.
Has a great close companion on the West Coast who helped her recover from these knee surgeries.
Of course, part of that recovery was sitting with her and watching TV so they could talk about it.
And he was just so excited and he'd be like, love on the spectrum, love on the spectrum.
And I would be like in my surgery recliner, which I didn't get out of very much.
And he would be either on the bed or the couch and we would watch together.
And I always call him like a slutty crier.
But like in the case of Love on the Spectrum, it's well-deserved.
And he would just sit there and cry through most of every episode.
And then we'd have these great laughs together.
But the great part about the way they're telling these stories on Love on the Spectrum and the format of the show.
I feel like the parts of us that don't have enough knowledge or understanding even those of us that are very empathetic, compassionate if we don't understand, then watching a show like love on the spectrum just fills in the gaps of our knowledge in such a beautiful way and i am grateful for that.
Love on the spectrum isn't just moving, it's also a pretty big hit.
I know a lot of people like Brett who've gotten something meaningful out of watching the show.
So for today's episode, I thought it would be nice to bring you a conversation I had with one of the show's stars, James B Jones.
James is from the Boston area and, like me, loves to dissect pop culture.
I figured we'd have plenty to chat about.
But what I really wanted to know was if the show was as helpful to participants as it looked from the outside.
After all, we have had a season about help in unexpected places.
I also wanted to know what it felt like to be the source of education and inspiration for so many people, even at the cost of going through heartbreak in public.
I hope you enjoy our conversation.
From the Boston Globe and PRX, this is Love Letters.
I'm Meredith Goldstein.
OK, so first of all, thank you for talking to us.
This is so exciting because it's very fun when we have someone from Boston on TV just in general.
Yes, thank you very much.
And I am very glad to appear on your program.
I always enjoy being able to speak of my experiences.
So speaking of your experiences, I wanted to know how you found your way onto the show.
Whose idea was it?
You know, how did you hear about it and how did it happen?
A friend introduced me to the original Australian version of the series.
So, yes, I watched both seasons of the Australian version at a friend's house.
And yes, I absolutely felt that I could sympathize or empathize with the cast members of that series because I had been through what they had been through also.
What they had experienced, I had experienced as well.
So, of course, yes, I was secretly hoping there would be an American version.
So... another friend of mine informed me that there would be an American version.
So when I heard that, I knew I just had to audition for it.
I could not let this opportunity pass me by.
So I did.
I went online.
I found out how to audition.
And yes, I did.
I sent in my audition.
They asked you to simply write a brief paragraph about yourself.
Include a photograph of yourself as well.
So I did.
Let me see.
They wrote back, of course, saying that they would be in touch.
And I had two auditions via Zoom and Yes, and then I had a third audition in person.
The film crew actually came to my house to interview me for the show.
And at that point, I was feeling very good.
I was feeling very confident, very excited.
Because I figured I mean, if I made it all the way to a third audition and if they actually went through the effort of coming over to my house, they surely must be seriously considering me for the series, for the show.
And yeah, so when they announced that they wanted me to appear on the show, I was ecstatic.
I was totally over the moon about it.
Well, yes, I was nervous, of course.
Why wouldn't I be?
There's no way I would not be nervous about it.
But still, I was very excited.
So you said that when you saw the Australian version of the show you could sympathize and empathize.
Do you remember some of the experiences that seemed familiar to you, that maybe you hadn't seen before?
I suppose, when the cast members spoke of it, Some of their difficulties with certain interactions, perhaps just feeling uncomfortable in social gatherings overall, because that is how the situation was for me long ago.
I used to be very uncomfortable being out in public or being in any unfamiliar or strange environment.
I'm better now.
Now I have no trouble being out in public and in large crowds, but it was not always that way.
I used to be extremely nervous and self-conscious.
I used to wonder if people used to be afraid that people were staring at me and judging me, or yes, you know, or something with some of the cast members just through the fact they just simply had had difficulty interacting with other people who were strange to them, or interacting with members of the opposite sex, or interacting with people who could potentially be romantic interests.
All of the, yes.
I used to have difficulties with all of those, but i'd like to believe that i am much better now.
Now it's not quite so bad.
What was your dating life like before the show?
If you could generalize?
Oh, wow.
My relationships.
My dating life was Actually well.
My dating life was practically non-existent for quite a while, as unfortunate as that may be.
So, of course, there were plenty of women whom I was interested in.
I may have had...
I suppose maybe I could call them girlfriends if I'm being generous.
I maybe had some few short-term relationships, but nothing really serious, at least not for a while.
Any potential relationship I had that I may have had didn't last very long, except one.
Before I ever even heard of Love and Special, before Love and Special actually ever premiered or was ever even conceived, there was one woman who I met actually who I met through an organization specifically intended to help people with Asperger's syndrome, autism and similar conditions yes, who I thought for sure was the one for me.
The way I felt about her I'd never felt about another woman before.
Yes, she was wonderful, she was great, but we were kind of, we were dating.
Hold on this from about I don't remember the exact.
What was it like September 2016 to December 2019.
But ultimately, she said she wasn't ready for a serious relationship.
But she said it wasn't me personally.
She just wasn't ready.
So I'll admit being that that was the first time I'd ever felt strong feelings for a woman.
It was also, of course, the first time I ever experienced crushing heartbreak.
So there is no question whatsoever that appearing in Love on the Spectrum has really helped.
It's improved my life in every possible way.
My life has absolutely changed for the better since appearing in Love on the Spectrum.
Sometimes I worry when I see documentary shows or reality shows that they're not really helping, that maybe people suddenly having fame or you know, might not be helpful.
And yet this show seems very different where, from what you've described, it's helpful on all sides.
Can you tell me why you think Love on the Spectrum is different when it comes to being helpful to the person on it?
Yes, of course.
Well, first, I am not taking too long in my answers, am I?
No, you're perfect.
Good, good.
So I feel that the reason I like this show so much, the reason why I feel it's so, it's different from some of the others, because it is genuine and wholesome.
At least that's how I feel about it.
It is unscripted.
All the cast members are basically can say whatever they feel like saying, which I like very much.
They're being completely from the heart.
You know um, some shows are script well, so the director of the love of the special, of course, will sometimes prompt the cast members to say certain things, or ask them certain questions, or ask them to ask certain questions.
But other than that though, it is unscripted and completely genuine.
You know some other shows i'm not sure if i should say any names, but some other shows that focus on relationships are are quite clearly scripted, or or or or or are.
It's blatantly obvious that the crew members are setting things up to provoke reactions from the cast members.
Yes, and I'm so glad that this shows again.
I would never appear on one of those other shows without a question.
It seems like it would take a lot of bravery to have experiences so publicly.
Like.
I've gone through breakups but I've never had to do a breakup before in front of a camera or knowing an audience would watch.
How did you get the bravery to do these things publicly, and how did it feel to know that others would see?
Yes well, I would not have auditioned for the series in the first place if I did not believe I could handle the fame, but thankfully I have no trouble with it.
It just took years of practice and experience.
But also I did take a public speaking class in college and that really helped.
Plus I've been doing readings at my church for a long time.
That has helped also.
But yes, I'm actually glad.
In some ways I'm glad that Love on the Spectrum premiered the way it did, rather than if Love on the Spectrum had premiered 10 years ago.
That may have been a very different story.
Because, you know, let's see, in my late adolescence and early adult years, my early 20s, I had not yet built up, developed the confidence and courage that I have now.
So yeah, Love of the Special had premiered a decade ago.
Who I may not have been, may not have had the courage to audition for unfortunately,
So I'm so glad it came around right when it did.
In Love Letters.
We're always the readers are And we're always trying to help each other figure out how to be better at dating and romance and being in love.
What are some of the lessons you learned on the show that might be useful to others?
Always good to be polite and respectful.
And first impressions are very important.
I mean, first impressions are not always accurate, but The majority of the times first impressions are very, very important.
Yes, you always should give the other person opportunity to speak.
Do not dominate the conversation and ask the other person questions about themselves, or do not simply treat it as a back and forth interview.
Engage the other person in conversation.
Try to encourage them to speak on a subject about which they are enthusiastic, in which they are interested.
After the break, James updates us on his relationship status and give some advice to people who've lost hope that they'll meet someone.
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We're all out of the ordinary.
There's a battle playing out right now over who should control American universities.
We're going to bankrupt these universities.
In season one, we were guessing what was to come.
Now, we know.
We want nothing less than $500 million from Harvard.
From the Boston Globe and on the media, it's season two of The Harvard Plan.
This time, it really is personal.
Listen wherever you get your podcasts.
I like that.
On your Instagram, you sometimes ask for advice from people who may have had different experiences from you.
Can you talk about having conversations with people who might be strangers online and how it helps you the back and forth?
Yes.
Well, I have.
When I was younger, I likely would not have had the courage to to engage in such conversations.
But as I am now, I have no trouble at all.
So yes, I understand the majority of these people are very similar to myself.
They also likely may not necessarily be comfortable interacting with strangers.
So yes, I have no trouble with it now.
It's not too much different from interacting with people face-to-face.
Well, I mean no.
Sorry, the medium through which we are interacting is not the same, but it is sufficiently similar that I have no difficulty with it.
It seems like while you've asked for help and received it from the show and other people, you have become a great help to others.
What does it feel like to help other people who feel better because they've gotten to know you on TV or online?
Yes.
So I am very, very glad that other people have said they found the series to be inspirational or they find me to be inspirational.
Yes, I can remember when I was younger and how I was completely lacking confidence or a sense of direction, or wondering who I was or where I was going.
Yes, I completely understand that.
So yes, tons of people have said, have spoken of how inspirational they find the series to be.
A lot of people have spoken how either they have autism or a similar form of neurodiversity, or spoken of how their children or younger relatives do.
And yes, I'm very glad that I'm able to inspire other people.
Yes, that's very good.
On occasion.
Sometimes people ask me for advice on like parents ask for advice about how to handle what to do with their children.
I give the best advice I can, but I'm not 100 certain, although I suppose actually I could always ask them.
To ask my parents who, of course.
But let me see.
Yes, I went to a convention not too long ago.
This was my first time being a featured guest at a convention.
Yes, quite a few people spoke of how inspirational I was.
There was a mother with a young son, a 12-year-old son, at the convention who went, and she gave me a letter in an envelope, which I read later, but she spoke of how wonderful I was and she spoke of how inspirational she was and how appearing on Love, on the Special has really helped her son.
So, of course, I thank her very much for that.
You mentioned your parents, and they seem like very helpful people. people in your life?
Can you talk about how they helped you along and how parents in general can help us, even when we're not kids anymore?
Yes.
My parents have been immensely helpful to me.
I love them very much.
I know they would do anything for me and I would most likely do anything for them as well.
Yes, they helped me out.
So in grades one through four, I was in mainstream or normal public schools.
But at that point in time, In the early 90s, society did not have a very thorough understanding of neurodiversity.
The curriculum did not work very well for me.
I did quite well academically.
Throughout all 12 grades of school, I did extremely well academically, but socially not so much.
I was severely lucky because other students were bullying me.
I don't know if I'd say I was depressed, but I certainly wasn't in a good emotional state.
So My parents decided when we were reaching the end of elementary school, the end of grade four, my parents decided that we needed something different.
So for grades five through eight and maybe middle school grades nine through 12, I was in special education.
But you see, at that point in time the public did not have a very good view of special education because society did not have a strong understanding of Asperger's syndrome autism, ADHD or similar forms of neurodiversity.
They tend just to group us all together with people who had Down syndrome or other much more severe neurological conditions.
And yes, I prefer the term condition over disorder because it is not as judgmental.
It is more neutral.
So yes, that meant it was difficult to find such help.
So my parents looked around until we eventually did find a special program facility designed for students with Asperger's autism, ADHD or similar such conditions.
Yes, it helped out so much.
So, of course, my parents helped.
I was seeing a psychologist, a therapist for many years.
He helped me out also.
Then, of course, the teachers in my school helped me out as well.
If I had stayed in public schools and not gone to that special program?
Yes, I definitely probably would not be where I am now.
Who knows what would have happened?
And beyond helping you with that, I mean... you get love advice from parents on the show, right?
And you get to learn from their relationship or think about that.
Are parents good at giving advice that way too?
Yes, I prefer it when I ask for the advice first.
I do not like it when they give advice unsolicited as I prefer to ask that.
It's better when I actually ask for the advice.
I think that's good advice for everyone giving advice that you should be asked first.
Okay, so...
In any way you want to tell us what you're looking for now in your relationship life and where you are for the people who have been wondering.
Yes, I am seeking a special person, special someone with whom I can share the best moments of my life, or someone who will provide emotional support in difficult times, or someone who makes my life all the more vibrant and lively just with their presence alone.
But it would be nice to have someone who shares my interests or at the very least, respects.
Yes, that would.
That would be very nice.
Do you have advice for people who start to run out of hope that they'll meet someone?
Is there anything you tell people who feel like it is it is too hard to find a partner?
What what pep talk do you give yourself?
Yes, well, I was in that exact situation.
I was definitely losing hope.
I graduated from college in 2009 and I thought for sure.
I was so certain that within a decade, I would be married and have my own house.
And of course, that obviously did not happen.
Not too happy about that.
But then when I saw Love on the Spectrum, I started to feel hope again.
So in those situations, it was through my own effort that I had these results.
Because if I had not joined that organization for helping out people with autism and so forth.
I would never have met that woman.
And of course, and as I said, she's also the one who introduced me to Loveless Special.
If I had never auditioned for Loveless Special, I never would have had my love.
I wouldn't be where I am now.
I'd probably still be...
I don't want to think I'd be wallowing in self-pity, but I don't want to imagine what my life would have been like if I had not auditioned for Love in the Special.
That was one of the biggest things that ever happened to me.
It was again, one of the biggest risks I'd taken, but the payoff for the risk I took was absolutely worth it.
I didn't wait around for the perfect woman to enter my life.
I took the initiative, and look where it's gotten me.
It's been amazing.
Okay, this is on a very different topic.
I liked your Instagram post about the X-Men reboot.
Okay.
And I'm, I'm a fan and I am also a Batman.
I'm a Batman, the animated series fan.
And so I'm wondering if between the time you posted that and now, if you've been able to see the new X-Men reboot, I have not, I'm saving it.
If you're excited about it, when you're going to watch it and what would you want to reboot?
I do not have an account on Disney+, and I have no intention of making one.
I really don't see why streaming is such a huge craze now, because I still prefer my physical media, or even just regular, normal television works for me personally.
So I made an account on Netflix because I had no choice in order to watch Love on the Spectrum.
And I guess, since making my account on Netflix, I figured I may as well take advantage and watch the varsity.
So I watched Stranger Things, watched the Wednesday Addams Series, watched a few other Netflix series.
I mean, it may as well as long as I have the account, but I don't know.
I'm going to wait and hope that Marvel or Disney releases the series in physical form.
Because, see this, they've been releasing quite a few of their Disney Plus exclusive series in physical form.
And I am very happy about that.
But I'm hoping that if these physical releases sell sufficiently well, Disney will go back, dive further back into Marvel's catalog and release some of the older Marvel media releases.
I completely agree, and I will never throw out my physical media.
Thank you.
I'm glad you understand.
Well, I'm also 46, so it could be age, but I have even all my copies of Twilight on DVD, because I will never – you never know with streaming.
Well, I think so.
With streaming the owners of the streaming service – can alter or remove content at any time, for any reason.
I don't like that.
So having physical media prevents that and ensures the media is preserved.
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us.
I feel very grateful.
You are very welcome, and thank you also.
Love Letters is a production of the Boston Globe and PRX.
Today's episode was produced by Jesse Remedios and Scott Hellman.
Ned Porter does our audio mixing, sound design, and mastering.
Maddie Mortel does our audience engagement.
Special thanks to Linda Henry.
Our music is from APM.
Remember, Love Letters is also an advice column.
And when you write in, you also help others with the same problem.
Send your question about relationships to loveletters at boston.com.
I'm reading.
Find episode transcripts and more Love Letters content at loveletters.show.
I'm Meredith Goldstein.
Thanks for listening.
