Brought to you by the Capital One Venture X card are an unlimited 2x miles on everything you buy and turn everyday purchases into extraordinary trips.
Plus receive premium travel benefits like access to over 1300 airport lounges and a $300 annual credit for bookings through Capital One travel unlock a whole new world of travel with the Capital One Venture X card.
What's in your wallet? Terms apply, lounge access is subject to change.
See CapitalOne.com for details.
Previously, on cereal.
While you're digging in Lincoln Park to bury your body, you're going to find somebody else's.
That's Lincoln Park. I walked along the edge of the log expecting to find a body real soon.
I never saw one. Lincoln Park, I'm like, where is that?
Do you even know where it is?
Have you ever been there?
When shopping with a friend of mine.
An ex friend of mine. Hey, no.
You know, it was not abnormal for me to leave school to go do something.
Have they come back? This is a global tail link that they call from.
A non-scient. And in May, that, a Maryland correctional facility.
From this American life in W.B.E.Z.
Chicago, it's cereal. One story told week by week, I'm Sarah Canig.
Remember how last time I ended by saying that the detectives had other leads in this case besides Mr.
S, the guy who found his body, that they were also starting to look at a non?
Well, the reason we know that is because of this memo.
The memo was dated 12 February 1999 from Detective Darryl Massey to Detective Greg McGillivary.
This memo he's talking about is regarding an anonymous call.
That's Detective Ritz on the witness stand at trial.
He's talking about how they got this anonymous call three days after his body was found.
The call came in to Detective Massey of Baltimore County, CAH.
The caller must have had an accent of some kind, because Massey's report describes him as an Asian male 18 to 21 years old, though it's unclear whether Asian in this case means East Asian like Korean or South Asian like Pakistani.
But anyway, a mystery caller says, look at the ex-boyfriend.
The caller further advised that the boyfriend has taken to the victim to Lincoln Park on past occasions for sexual encounter.
Prior to concluding the phone interview, the caller further stated that the victim broke off the relationship with her boyfriend about a week before she was reported missing.
The caller hangs up. Then a few minutes later, the same guy calls back and says, oh yeah, by the way.
This time, the caller remembered about a year ago, the suspect informed a friend of his.
Prince Z, asked her to leave Asian male 17 and a parenthesis.
If he ever heard his girlfriend, he would drive her car into a lake.
This time, the caller mentions a friend of a nuns, Basar Ali.
Actually, the name of this friend is Yasar Ali.
The caller says, Yasar might know something.
Hangs up again. The cops can't trace the call.
It's out of range. Three days after the anonymous call, the detectives go meet with Yasar Ali at a pizza hut.
Yasar says, I didn't make that call.
I don't know anything. Their notes from that conversation say, quote, if a nun wanted to get rid of the car, where would he do so?
Ali indicated somewhere in the woods, possibly in Centennial Lake or the Inner Harbor.
Unquote. No one has ever gotten to the bottom of who made this anonymous call.
The cops didn't figure it out.
A nuns attorney didn't figure it out.
I've tried to figure it out too.
For a while, I couldn't let it go.
Because it seemed to me that whoever made this call, he must be the key to the whole thing.
But so far, I only have guesses that I can't responsibly say out loud.
Anyway, the day after the pizza hut talk on February 16th, the detectives do some paperwork that will ultimately crack the whole case open for them.
They get a subpoena for a nun's cell phone records.
The results of that subpoena include a list of all the calls dialed and received on a nun's phone on January 13th.
The day he disappeared.
That list will become arguably the most important piece of paper among all the thousands in this case.
It'll become their map.
And they'll follow it, call by call by call like footprints that end up at a nun's front door.
If you look at that call log from January 13th, there are 34 calls that day.
Obviously, the first thing they have to do is figure out who all the phone numbers belong to, home, cell, and page numbers.
Once they do, they realize, wait a minute, one person was called six times that day, much more often than anyone else.
That person is an 18 year old girl named Jennifer Pucetari.
Jen is not a friend of a nuns.
She's a friend of Jay's.
Remember, Jay had a nun's car that day and his new cell phone.
He says, Jen, you guys swearing won't tell Lily.
What about the tell you?
That's Jen talking to detectives about the night of January 13th.
And I was like, all right, he's like, what I got to tell you, I got to tell somebody I can't, you know, and I was like, all right, it was up there.
He was like, um, add nun, killed, hey.
And that's when I was just like, whoa, what do you mean?
Add nun, killed, hey. Why, what, how, when, where, you know.
If you want to figure out this case with me, now is the time to start paying close attention, because we have arrived, along with the detectives, at the heart of the thing.
This interview with Jen happens on February 27th, 1999.
The day before on the 26th, the cops had gone to find Jen at her house.
They explained they'd like her to come downtown to talk.
Jen is thoroughly wigged out.
She says she can't right now.
She's busy, maybe later.
Then Jen and her friend, GoCJ, he's at work at a video store.
She tells Jay, the police want to talk to me.
What do I do? A trial, Jen says, quote, he told me to go down there and tell them what I knew.
Tell them enough to keep me out of trouble and tell them to go see Jay, send them his way.
So Jen goes downtown to see the cops later that night and she lies to them, says she doesn't know anything.
I've seen the detectives notes from that interview and they're remarkably uninteresting.
But by the time she left that night, Jen thought it was possible she was about to get charged.
At trial, she said the last thing Detective McGillivari said during that night was, quote, everyone's a suspect and no one's a suspect.
So the next day she goes back to the detectives.
This time she's got reinforcements.
She's gotten a turnie with her, plus her mom.
They turn on a tape recorder.
Who, what, where, when, why?
When you asked why, what, what did he say?
He said that, and on, said that he broke his heart.
Did he say anything else?
No. When you asked him how, what did he say?
Said that he struggled.
So Jen gives them a motive, he broke at Nons' heart and a method, he strangled her, which of course they already knew.
But then, Jen's information gets a little mudnier.
Did you ask him where it happened?
He told me, oh, he told me, this way, tell me, he asked, he asked me what we should do.
He said, do you think we should go to the police now and tell them right now?
And I said, I don't know.
I said, what was your involvement?
Were you involved? And he said, no.
He said, addon, show me her body.
And ask me if I would help her bury, and I would help him bury her body.
And I said, what did you do?
Did you help him? Do you know where the body is?
No, I just took him to someplace in the city and I dropped him off.
I took him to a, then I went down, took him up from a different place in the city.
And then I don't know where he said they went.
I said, how did he do this?
When, when was this done?
And he didn't know when.
Where he said it? He said that he strangled her in Best Buy parking lot.
Did he say that? I don't know how he got to Best Buy parking lot.
Everything like that. Jay has told her, I saw the body in the trunk of a car.
Adon asked me to help bury her, but I didn't, I refused.
I took him someplace and later picked him up some place at some chick's house.
And he tells her that all this went down at the Best Buy parking lot off security boulevard about a mile from Woodlawn High School.
Jay and Jen were close friends at this time, Winter of 99, talking or hanging out almost every day.
They'd known each other since elementary school, and they were in the same class at Woodlawn.
They graduated the year before in 98.
Now Jen was a freshman at UMBC, University of Maryland, Baltimore County.
She was studying biochemistry, she's in a sorority.
When Hay disappeared, Jen was on Winter break.
She was working part time as a lifeguard.
And Jay was also working.
One of his jobs was at F&M, a discount store.
Jen sat on January 13th.
She and Jay had been hanging out earlier in the afternoon at her house, after she got home from work.
Then Jen says Jay left her house sometime between 345 and 415.
They'd plan to meet later that evening.
But then Jen had gotten a message Jay was running late.
He wanted her to pick him up in the parking lot of Westview Mall, around 8 p.m.
She goes there and she sees them together.
She sees Jay get out of a non-s car, and non says hi to her.
She says he seems to be acting normal.
Jay gets in her car and that's when he tells her about the murder.
After they'd driven a little ways, Jay mentions shovels.
The shovels a non had used to dig in the park to bury Hay.
That they were Jay's shovels from his house.
Jay mentions to me that he knew where Adnan had dumped the shovel, their shovels.
I don't know how many they were.
But he mentioned to me that he knew where Adnan put the shovels.
Jen tells them she drives Jay back to Westview Mall to the dumpsters back there, so that Jay can retrieve the shovels and wipe the handles clean in case of fingerprints.
After that, Jay came back out of my car and he was really shitting off.
He was completely shitting off.
He was like, you have to take me to go see my girlfriend now.
The next day, Jen says she drove Jay to the F&M store, the same one where he worked, so that he could throw out the clothes and boots he was wearing the previous night.
He pitched them into a dumpster behind the store.
One of the cops points out, for a guy who's telling you he didn't kill anyone and didn't help dispose of a body, he sure is taking a lot of precautions.
He clarifies, Jay wasn't alone when the body was buried.
Jay wasn't alone, the body was dead.
Did my family, no, to my understanding, he said it was always close and he took off waiting for the fingerprints on the shovels and they did that, right?
Yeah, you did, right? Well, it wasn't until today that I mean, I was just don't think that Jay, I don't think that Jay would lie to me for sure.
And like, I don't know, unless I don't pay Jay, I'd give him some of my money.
I really don't see Jay helping me.
Finally, the cop asks, were a non-and Jay best friends?
And Jen says, oh no, more like casual acquaintances.
What's the detectives talk to Jen?
Once the detectives talk to Jen, everything happens very fast.
That same night, the detectives go get Jay at the video store where he works.
It's actually a porn video store, which come trial, a non-saturni will stress with relish at every opportunity.
Anyway, the cops bring him down to homicide.
By the time they turn on the tape recorder, it's 1.30 in the morning on February 28th.
I'm willing to answer questions.
And do not want them to turn it this time.
I decision to answer questions.
So they get Jay in the interview room.
And initially, he pulls a Jen.
He tells them nothing more or less.
Says he'd walk to them all that day, gotten his girlfriend a bracelet for a birthday, hung around with Jen's younger brother, talked to a non sometime in the afternoon.
And then after two pages of notes like that, it says, all right, I come clean.
At least that's what I think it says.
The detectives handwriting is messy.
So maybe it says, a bright eye came down.
In any case, around 20 minutes later, they start taping.
And Jay tells them a whole different story, one that more or less matches Jen's.
Except for one major difference, one major piece of information about this crime that the cops are still missing.
They do not know where Hay's car is.
They've been looking all over the place for it.
They can't find it. Now, Jay tells them he knows where it is.
Before, during the interview prior to trying to tape on, you stated to detect him the go-ray in myself that you'd be willing to take us out and show us where the vehicle's parked.
No problem. Larry's still willing to do that.
Yes. So that's huge for them.
Jay will take them to the car.
And he does. Once they're finished at headquarters, they all drive out in the middle of the night to where the car is parked, on a grassy hill behind some row houses off Edmonds and Avenue.
Within a few hours, they'll have a warrant for Ednonds' arrest.
We said something like we know what you and Jay did.
And we talked today. And I'm like, Jay, Jay, like I had a look of puzzlement on my face like, what do you mean?
Like, what do you mean, Jay?
Anon, of course, says Jay's story isn't true.
But he says he doesn't know why Jay would lie, either.
He says when he first heard Ritz and McGill very mentioned Jay's name and connection with his own arrest, he was just confused.
And the same guy, McGilliver, you kind of like snorted like, huh, you know what we're talking about, please.
No, I mean, I had no idea.
And the reaction that he gave me was like, it's not playing dumb.
It's not like there was some secret feud between Jay and Anon, at least not that I know of.
There was no drug deal gone wrong.
Neither had bad mouthy other or stolen the other's girlfriend.
To hear Anon tell it, it sounds like they didn't even know each other very well.
When I first asked him what their friendship was like, what Jay was like as a person, Anon really had to reach.
He was like, Jay worked.
He wasn't that into sports.
OK, I knew he generally kind of listened to like, I don't want to say why people use it.
But he'd like listen to like rock and roll things like that, like a heavy metal.
I guess you know, I can't really, I just, you know, just, I can't be honest with you.
I couldn't even really recall like a huge long conversation that we ever had other than like a specific subject.
If you were to ask me something about Stephanie or something like, where are we going to go or like, we're hanging out.
We wouldn't necessarily like, you know, be kicking it per se, right?
We wouldn't necessarily be kicking it per se as Anon speak for, yes, we smoked weed together, but we weren't close.
However, Adnan was close with Stephanie, Jay's girlfriend, very close.
And Anon says that's the only thing he can think of now that might have turned Jay against him.
Stephanie was smart. She was a top athlete at the school.
She was beautiful by any standard.
She looked like a model.
She came from a family of achievers who did not approve of Jay, but had no problem with Adnan.
So maybe Stephanie's relationship with Adnan, how affectionate they were with each other, the constant talking on the phone, the prom prince and princess stuff, maybe that was knowing it, Jay.
I don't know. I think it may be Christina said it or someone said it.
Christina was a non-slawyer.
Like, you know, when I was talking about close, I was, was Stephanie.
And they were like, you know, if you never, like, look at me like I was a idiot.
Like, you know, if you never thought that this barber, Jay, I was like, no, I never, you know, my relationship were like, just a trend.
So that was kind of like a hot moment where I was like, oh, so then to kind of like, now I'm thinking about all the things, you know, that took place between us.
But it just kind of like started to make a little sense, like maybe he was, you know, mad at me.
Because always on my mind, I'm like, well, I'll be good to Steven.
Adnan says he didn't feel betrayed by Jay exactly, because again, they weren't good enough friends for betrayal.
He says it was more a feeling of injustice.
So, but with Jay, it was more so kind of like, I don't know if my mind always kind of like, maybe the police were putting them up to this, maybe somehow he got caught up.
I thought maybe he tried to claim the reward money and he got caught up in the situation.
So in my heart, I kind of like, don't know, I don't know, there's a part of me that I don't want to make accusation against someone else, with like, you know, not being sure of it, because obviously he's happened to me.
A year after Adnan was arrested and the case came to trial, Jay walked up to the witness stand.
And there was a moment when Adnan muttered something to him.
He says he couldn't help himself.
The judge called the attorneys up to the bench.
Quote, I was just informed by my sheriff that the defendant made a comment to the witness as the witness approached the stand, indicating that he was pathetic, the judge said.
I want to advise Mr. Sayed, that up until now he has been perfect.
Don't spoil it. In the first taped interview, the detectives asked Jay, why would Adnan turn to someone he didn't even know all that well, to help him with this murder?
Can't why would Adnan call you?
The criminal element of Woodlawn.
I'm the criminal element of Woodlawn, he says.
Is that a real or perceived, reprimanded, I quote, perceived as, like, how I was viewed by a sea of wood?
You know, I mean, teachers who really know me know that I'm not like that, but, you know, you get certain reputation, you got to stay safe.
Because of the contacts you have with helping him get his marijuana, he thinks that you're an element that, yeah, he wants to assist him in disposing of the body.
I would guess, but, yeah, I would know someone, I would do where, something, but, I think.
In her closing argument at trial, prosecutor Casey Murphy posed this why him question to the jury about Jay.
Think about it, she said.
Do you really believe that the defendant, meaning Adnan, could go to one of his upstanding magnet school, honor student friends or a friend from the mosque to assist him with this act?
Of course not. He needed someone who behaved a little more dangerously than those people.
He needed someone who took risks.
The defendant hopes that you will look at Jay and say, I don't believe him.
That is why the defendant chose Jay.
Because if something went wrong, the defendant could point the finger at Jay.
This idea, this is what Jay is more or less trying to communicate to the cops.
But they ask him, if you're actually not the type of guy who knows where to bury a body, then why did you help?
Why didn't you go to the police instead?
He gives you his car keys.
He gives you his self-help.
He tells you a time that he's going to call you.
That he's going to kill her.
And you do absolutely nothing.
Help me understand your trying to bother why you do absolutely nothing with that one.
I had no idea what a lot of the defendant was about me.
I had to affect criminal activities.
I mean, it wasn't. You're selling marijuana.
So if I go to the cops and say, hey, this guy's been killed and killed her, they'll say, well, no, I'm not.
He's crazy. But there's a strong dealer.
And this is where he gets his shit from.
And this is who he deals with.
And he's got a rap sheet this long.
And go get his eggs. Well, you've never been arrested.
But one time. You don't really have a rap sheet.
I'm on a record for one time.
But I got my ass kicked plenty of times.
I've got one of the raps.
I've got money. Dog, sick dog.
I'm going to tell a cop to shit with my keys and my aims.
It's not just, you know, I mean, seriously, man.
I've been coming home with the algorithms, maybe laying a street and a snow walking in my own house to so they can say I was a wrong dude.
You know what I mean? Things are a place to do that, yeah.
So you didn't trust any police?
No. In my mind, I don't think to the presence of let's call the cops.
It's never, they never cross it in my mind.
I could be getting shot at it.
I wouldn't be a cop. OK, they say.
So if you didn't want to go to the police yourself, how about making an anonymous call then?
You could have done it right after he shows you the body as you're leaving the best by parking lot.
You're driving off the parking lot.
Why don't you stop your car and say, call the police.
Say someone had just committed a murder.
There's a body in the trunk of the car.
I just fear. You know what I'm saying?
Like how it is. Who were you afraid of if you make an anonymous phone call and you could give a description of her car?
You give them the tag number or the car.
Can we stop for a second?
Yes. Can you stop that? Follow it.
If you have any questions you can ask me on tape.
I don't understand this line of questions.
Well, I'm trying to understand why you could through all this.
First of all, it was just like shock.
After that, I was part of it.
I couldn't just run all the time.
What he has ever you or your involvement in this is beyond belief other than you being afraid of the police.
Either he has paid you something or, like I said, he knows that so well.
I mean, that was, I mean, that's, if you give me locked up for that, I mean, I'm sure if I'm adding him up for killing Hay, did he even hesitate to turn me up for some drugs?
Is there anything else that you'd like to add to this?
Mom, I feel bad. I'm scared.
I'm horrible at doing things.
I'm just so I feel bad having a feel all the way.
It's not that somehow, you know, maybe part of me or it's actually, you know, tell them all, it's your bad about it.
It's all, it's all good.
He says, I just feel bad about it.
That's all I got to say. The cops have a struggle with Jay.
I have a struggle with Jay.
He's the biggest mystery of this whole case for me.
The cops interview him at least four times that I know about.
Two of those are on tape.
And Jay also tells this story a trial, not once but twice because the first proceeding ended in a mistrial.
So at least say six times he's told what happened.
And each time some details shift.
Some of these discrepancies seem small to me and understandable, but some are significant and confounding.
And that distance between where a certain detail starts and where it ends up, how far it slides and why it slides.
I've spent untold hours trying to measure that distance, trying to weigh it, for clues as to what might actually be true.
For example, this is from taped interview number one.
The cops are asking about what he and a nun did that morning of the 13th.
We had a tour with watching mall.
We did a little shopping together.
Now here's taped interview number two from March 15th, two weeks later.
And where did you go? We went to security scrimmall.
That's a different mall, security scrimmall, a couple miles away.
I put this one in the category of probably not a big deal, right?
Maybe Jay missed spoke when he said Westview initially.
There are a bunch of little things like this.
For example, when they're driving around that afternoon, after they've ditched Hayes Car at the I-70 Park and Ride.
At the first trial, Jay says they both got high in a nun's car.
But the second trial, he says only he smoked, and none didn't want to.
Then there are more significant changes, but still you can chalk them up to Jay trying to protect his friends, or trying to protect himself.
In the first taped interview, Jay says they're grabbing some food at a restaurant when officer Adcock calls a nun asking if he's seen hay.
The next time he tells it, he says that when that call comes, they're at a friend's apartment.
A friend whose father happens to be a homicide detective in another county.
Jay tells the cops he'd actually been to her house three different times that day, but he didn't want to get her in trouble.
In the first taped statement, Jay says he refused to help dig a grave for hay.
Two weeks later, he says they both dug the hole.
But then there are other changes, bigger changes, where it's harder to judge why the details shift.
This one, for instance.
In the first taped interview, Jay says Adnan only told him that same day that he was going to kill hay.
Two weeks later, Jay says that Adnan had started talking about it beforehand.
Four or five days before.
I think I'm going to kill her.
He says that a lot. Or I'll conversation with them several cases if you say that.
And he says Adnan enlisted his help with the murder on the 12th, the night before hay disappeared.
In this version, Jay tells Jen about it in advance, too.
But by the time Jay testifies at trial, he goes back to the first version again, that he knew nothing until the day of, and that he didn't really take it seriously.
There's so many more of these.
There's a whole side trip Adnan and Jay supposedly take that afternoon, after hay has been killed, to smoke some weed in Patapsco State Park.
That trip disappears by trial, just drops out of the narrative.
And Jay's whereabouts, in between the time he drops Adnan back at school at midday, and when he meets back up with him later that afternoon, the stories about where he is are so messy and so confusing that I can't even keep the different versions straight.
But none of these discrepancies gives me, or I think, the cops as much pause as this next one.
This is the mother of what the cops call Jay's inconsistencies.
It's about where Adnan first showed him hay's body in the trunk of a car.
Here's from Tape Interview Number 1.
Jay says Adnan called him about 3.45 pm saying, come pick me up.
I want to pick him up from off of him as an avenue at a strip, and he pops a trunk opening.
We'll say it, one Edmunds and Adnan knew off of the strip.
He'd record, and he crawls straight to Adnan's and Adnan's where he goes.
I don't know him by name, but I can tell if he's about to say it.
A strip is a small outdoor drug market, just like a block where he can buy drugs.
Jay tells the cops that it takes him about 15 or 20 minutes to get to the location on Edmundsson.
And later, when the cops drive out with Jay to get his car, Jay's chosen this spot on Edmunds and Adnan.
It's just a few blocks from where they ditched his car, he said.
Now, listen to what he says on March 15th.
And while it rooped to your house, you received a phone call from Adnan.
Yes. One his cell phone, which is in New York as a station.
And the conversation was one.
That bitch is dead. Come and get me.
I made best buy. Best buy.
Just like Jen had originally told them.
This is a problem for the cops, this change.
Because it's not something you forget, where you were when you saw a dead body in the trunk of a car.
It's not a slip of the tongue.
And it's not clear what the calculation is.
Edmundsson avenue versus the best buy parking lot.
What's the advantage of one place over the other?
Why tell this lie? Maybe he's just saying it because it matches Jen's story.
Or did he lie to Jen in the first place and then forget?
I have a friend who's worked for a long time in the Baltimore judicial system.
She knows a lot of cops. And she reminded me when I was telling her about this case.
Cops are the most skeptical people in the world.
They pretty much assume everyone is lying to them all the time.
Ritz and McGillivary aren't newbies.
McGillivary came from a law enforcement family.
His father had been captained in the homicide unit in fact.
And Ritz was known in the department and in the state's attorney's office as a skilled and meticulous investigator.
So they're not suckers.
They're taking careful note of the changes in Jay's stories.
It's why they keep going back to him to clear up the inconsistencies.
In the second taped interview, McGillivary confronts Jay.
Taking off a list of the main things he's lied to them about.
And Jay admits to all the lies.
But even so, what struck me is that they don't really press him on any of it.
The most forceful McGillivary gets is in this exchange about the location of the trunk pop.
He actually killed her at Nesbite.
To my knowledge. To your knowledge.
Yes. You weren't present for that.
No, sir. Why did you lie about the location?
I figured there was cameras there.
Somebody had spotted him.
No one was doing. But if you actually didn't assist her murder, I'm associated with that.
Why would you lie about?
Because I'm a location.
I'm associated with it.
But you did lie. Yes. Okay.
Jay is saying, I figured there were security cameras at Best Buy.
So that's why I lied. Because I didn't want to be associated with it.
What is he talking about?
This is nonsensical. When he told the Edmonds and Avenue version, he was already deeply associated with it.
And if there were cameras at Best Buy parking lot, wouldn't that help his story?
If they showed Hay's car or a non-walking around or putting Hay's body in the trunk.
But McGillivari lets it go.
Moves on to another point.
And just so you know, as best as we can tell from workers at the store and from the former landlord, there probably weren't security cameras in the Best Buy parking lot back in 1999.
And there's certainly no mention of any security footage in the police reports.
At the end of both of Jay's tape statements, the detectives kind of come out with it.
Are you telling us the truth right now?
On February 28th, after Jay has told them off tape that he doesn't know anything about the murder, Ritz points out, your story has completely changed since you first came in this room.
All the information that you provided to our Nisentica is a benefit complete truth.
It's a best amount of it.
And then Jay reinforces it.
All right, I believe that concludes this interview.
I'm going to go on this without off-lee.
Can you remember me? I mean, truthfully wrong?
Okay. But of course, two weeks later, big swaths of his story have changed.
So McGillivari asks him again on March 15th.
Do you take interview that you've given us right now?
Is that truth? It's the best that I can possibly humanely at this point in time, remember?
That is the truth. Did you kill...
Hey, Lynn. No, sorry to go.
Were you there when Adnon killed Hayo Sarlo?
I put it to Bill Ritz when I talked to him briefly.
Jay's story kept changing.
You were catching the inconsistencies.
And he was having to explain them and clean up his story.
So what ultimately made you believe him?
Ritz said they believed Jay's story because, quote, we were able to investigate and corroborate what he was saying, unquote.
So how exactly did they corroborate it?
Next time, on cereal. Next time, on cereal.
Cereal is produced by Julie Snyder, Dana Chivas and me.
Emily Connan is our production and operations manager.
Ira Glass is our editorial advisor.
Fact checking by Karen Fregalismith.
Our theme music is composed by Nick Thorburn, scoring music by Nick and by Mark Phillips, who also mixed our show, special thanks to Gregory Collins, Rich Horus and Lou Teddy.
Our website where you can listen to all our episodes and find photos, letters, and other documents from the case.
And you can sign up for our weekly emails, cerealpodcast.org.
Cereal is a production of this American life and WBEZ Chicago.
The best relationships are the ones where people feel comfortable being themselves.
They're with people who really see someone for who they are.
Someone who really gets them.
So why not use a dating app that is designed to do specifically that?
E-Harmony helps you find someone you can be yourself with.
Find someone you can be yourself with.
Get Who Get's You on E-Harmony.
