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Hey, everybody.
Welcome to Roll On Alfresco Style.
Oh, nice.
How you doing, man?
Good.
It's good to see you, man.
Welcome to my backyard.
It's nice to be this much closer.
Thank you.
I know.
Yeah.
We did a solo episode recently outdoors.
People seem to enjoy it.
And so why not do it again?
Yeah, man.
More is better, right?
Yeah.
I might not leave here, by the way.
After this, I'm going to use your gym and then your sauna and cold plunge facility.
And then I might sleep there tonight.
You're always welcome.
But you should check the Airbnb app to make sure it's available.
This is a bit nostalgic because for years...
We recorded the podcast at my house.
You can't see it, but right off camera, over there is a room where we recorded I don't know how many episodes, up until COVID.
And then we transitioned.
Into a studio, but it's kind of nice to be back here.
I'm feeling nostalgic.
We actually had some technical difficulties, Which is part of the nostalgia, I suppose.
Yeah, and it's nice dude.
I want to just have kind of like a low-key casual hang with you okay, which is part of this reimagination and experimentation and exploration that we're doing with the show these days as somebody who's been podcasting for coming up on 14 years we're breathing a little bit of fresh air into this experience and i'm having more fun doing it than i have in a long time by trying things and recognizing there are no rules.
When the podcast began, it was just all fun and adventure.
And I was a traveling salesman with a case and I would go to people's houses and record in hotel rooms and conference rooms.
I wasn't making any money.
I never thought that it would be a revenue generating enterprise.
And then it became successful.
And then it became like this whole thing, like this engine.
And it got easier and easier to just do it a certain way.
And I think I lost touch with the experimentation and the trying of new things.
The beginner's mind.
Yeah, the beginner's mind.
And now we're... in this new phase and it feels much more like play and I'm enjoying it.
Hopefully that's translating to the audience and the solo episode.
So it started with the looks maxing episode that we did.
Correct.
That was experimental.
By the way, how old is Zuma now?
Five, five and a half.
So what is?
Uh, what's his relationship with looks maxing?
Has he signed up for andrew tate's academy?
Yet, you know, at his, at his age, at his age he is still not really self-conscious, just a little bit.
But like in his age you can't really Like.
If you said something to him about his looks, he would just laugh and he'd have a good time with it.
It wouldn't even phase him.
So clavicular hasn't gotten his claws into Zuma yet.
No, but I worry because he doesn't like boo-boos.
So when he gets a boo-boo.
He's very consumed with when will the boo-boo go away.
Right.
Well, this is the beginning of his cosmetic obsession.
If clavicular has his way.
But clavicular likes boo-boos apparently.
Well, is he in jail now, like he shot an alligator and went to prison.
He did that fucking bastard.
So anyway this, that story is only going to end one way.
An alligator is going to get revenge well, the guy's like using meth, and anyway, that's a whole other story, My point being the experimentation started with this looks maxing episode.
And then I recorded these solo episodes.
And these episodes are getting much more interest and engagement than anything that I've done in recent years.
And that feels really good because they're fun and easy.
And it just tells me, oh, it's okay to play.
It's okay to experiment, try new things.
So we're outdoors.
And I think... Roll-on was the original experimentation.
That's true.
In 2020.
Which we started in the middle of the pandemic.
Right.
As sort of a parasocial hang.
Yeah.
And a way for me and you together, for us together, to share our perspectives and take the lens off the guests a little bit.
But even roll-on started to feel... very programmed.
And what I've noticed as the podcasting space has evolved is a growing desire for a more authenticity, a sense of something feeling just real and an emotional connection like a parasocial relationship.
Because it's really crowded out there right now.
And I think that the days of getting a special guest on your show becoming like an event, those days are over.
And everybody has a million choices out there.
And even the notion of two people sitting across from each other at a desk...
It's hard to get excited about that format.
There's so many shows doing that and so much content out there.
And I think people want to just feel connected to a guest or to a host, to feel like they're experiencing something that is heart-centered and real.
Yeah parasocial, i guess on on some level like they're hanging out with their friends yeah, yeah.
Well, that's what people always said about.
That's why the our core role on people, like just hearing us talk about stuff, you know.
The other thing i realized what what's that?
So many of the podcast hosts who are in my kind of genre?
Okay, Not all of them, but I'm saying there's a lot of them.
These guys are dorks.
Wait, first of all, let's unpack that for a second.
What is your podcast genre?
The personal development.
I think people misconstrue this show.
I get positioned as somebody who's in the self-optimization world.
I don't really consider myself that.
Maybe that's how it's translating for a subset of the audience.
But just kind of the self-help.
Here's a host who's gonna have the author of the next book that's coming out, or the expert on this, or the expert on that.
Self-improvement.
Yeah, self-improvement generally.
Health, yes, but also psychological health, spiritual health and all of that.
I don't see myself as in that kind of optimization vein, but there are other people out there who do something similar to what I do.
Right.
And I want to do something different, you know, I want to do something different.
Um, I feel it because, so this is kind of part of that experiment just to kind of piggyback on that.
Like It's just gotten so kind of boring where, like everybody wants to improve you or it's just like it's become uninteresting.
Like what used to be interesting.
Oh, here's this academic that no one's heard of.
It has this interesting kind of mind blowing perspective.
Now there's so many of them and everyone wants to improve you.
And it's almost like, you know what?
Why don't we just all relax a little bit?
Maybe the improvement we all need is to stop thinking about ourselves for a little while.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There's a navel gazing like self-obsession that comes with the self-improvement, personal development space.
And self-obsession is an antagonist to personal growth.
And so the narcissistic kind of egocentric aspect of being in this state Or in this pressurized situation where you feel like you always have to be improving yourself.
I don't think it's necessarily healthy.
And I plead guilty.
Not only am I participating in this, I'm a purveyor of it.
Right.
So I've been reflecting on that.
Stop guilting us with your 4 a.m. gym photos.
Yeah.
I know.
I'm a contradiction, Adam.
But I think, at the core of it, if you dig down beneath all of the layers, what is driving all of this is a fundamental sense of being broken.
And we always have to be fixing ourselves.
What would it be like if you if you embrace the fact that you're not broken?
We can all improve, but it doesn't have to come from that place of feeling like there's something wrong with you necessarily.
I think the real truth is that, like it's all just a repair job, like this whole construct of society,
You know, I've been.
You're going to get into streaming later.
I won't bring this up then.
But I started to watch rewatch Mad Men again for the fourth time.
And, you know, April's like, why do you like Don Draper?
And why I like Don Draper is that he knows it's all a sham.
That's what I like about him.
Like, it's all basically a sham.
Right.
Our personalities, we kind of tape together and. the society could, could shatter.
Everything is like hair trigger away from like going away.
And we see that sometimes and feel it sometimes.
And I don't say that as a cynic.
What to me, it's like, that's just fact.
And so improvement is, doesn't solve that kind of existential crisis.
What solves it is tuning into real moments.
And that's my feeling.
And so, like I'm less interested in optimizing and I've never really been into optimizing or improving,
I like the organic nature of connecting.
That's to me like the only way to kind of get us through any sort of tumult.
You need to get on the creatine.
Am I paunchy?
You feel you see in the punch?
I don't see I see nothing but love and beauty.
Thanks, Adam.
When I look at you.
Was I was that too cynical?
Is that too dark for people?
So I don't think so.
I mean, Don Draper is a you know, an anti hero and somewhat of a dark character figure with a nihilistic perspective.
So it's interesting that you are connecting with him.
I wouldn't have thought that.
I don't see him as nihilistic.
I mean, I understand why people think that, like there are no rules.
That's not what I'm saying.
I guess what I'm saying is there is soul beyond all the construct.
And we get caught up in the construct and improving ourselves can be a very nourishing experience.
And I've done it myself and I strive to be better also.
But like what I strive more for is like that authentic feeling of connection and presence.
And I think that lost in the nihilism of John Draper is a soul.
And he does connect and he does understand the nature of things.
Maybe it's just me projecting and maybe he is written as a nihilist and I should just, but I think that's the perception.
But I feel like there is a soul nature that the other people that he works with don't have.
That he understands.
And that's why he can communicate on a deep level as an advertiser.
I don't know why we're talking about this old show, but I guess what I'm saying is that's what is appealing to me more and more now than certain rules for getting better or improving this or that.
I think what we found is that there are all unintentional consequences of any improvement, you know, and so it doesn't always go the way you want it.
And life doesn't go that way.
It's not what it's about.
And so for me, it's about I just want to encourage that connection.
Well, there's a. A heart centered, good faith desire. to become a better person.
And I think that commitment to yourself and the impact that that has on other people is valorous and worthy of your investment of time.
But I think for many people the personal development urge comes from a discomfort with the uncertainty of life.
And so, when you think about what Phil Stutz has to say, these three truths no matter what you do, there will always be pain, uncertainty and the need for constant work.
And I think In this moment, we're experiencing an acute case of uncertainty.
Everything feels much more uncertain.
I think things are always uncertain, but because of the way the world is at the moment, it feels particularly uncertain.
And so what do you do with that uncertainty?
Uncertainty is uncomfortable.
What can I control?
Well, I can control my body.
Maybe I can control my mind.
Maybe I can control my emotions.
And that gives you a sense of grounding, right?
And so But that's sort of an unhealthy way to approach personal development.
Like oh, if I can just optimize my morning routine or if I dial in my nutrition, then I can absolve myself of all of these uncertainties that unconsciously, are making me deeply uncomfortable about life at the moment.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I think you said what I'm trying to say, which is the uncertainty of life drives, drives like what is improvement, I guess is the question right?
Is the improvement it's it's I agree.
Like I I go on Noom once a year to like trim down.
I have goals, personal goals, fitness goals and things like that.
But I think I'm not sure that improves me.
What I know improves me is meditating.
What I know improves me is getting in the ocean.
What I know improves me is connecting and being more diffused.
So it's like, to me, this is just my opinion.
And for me I'm not suggesting everyone should feel this way, but for me, the less I think of my own bullshit, the better off I am.
The more diffused I am, the more I am I am the sky and the trees and the wind and the ocean, the more I feel alive inside, and that to me is self-improvement, I mean to me.
So I guess that's what I'm trying to say, and like, the more we We go away from self-identifying, probably the better.
At least that's my personal opinion.
That's not as sexy as peptides.
No, you can't take a peptide for that, but you can microdose.
Yes, you can, actually.
You just have to change the languaging around it to appeal to a certain cohort, right?
If you switch it from...
Being present or being service minded into.
This is your, you know, this is your mindset.
Optimization protocol then
And I don't know what the wordage would be, but you can drape it in a certain way to make it sound like it is a peptide.
You know what?
I got it.
I had a nice life peptide the other day.
So we do.
Zoom and I do breakfast bros on the weekends.
It's just just the two of us.
We go out.
But sometimes other people join us and you don't have to be a dude to be a bro.
So just so you know.
But breakfast bros was just the two of us.
And we were sharing a blueberry muffin waiting for our our plate of food to come.
And I just got struck with one of those lightning bolt moments.
We all have them. where like you realize, actually, this is the only thing that matters.
Like everything else I'm obsessed with in my life makes no difference at all.
These moments, this moment here, I'm going to be thinking about this moment.
I'm going to be I don't think I'll ever forget a moment like that.
And it's like and to like have that moment where you're like whoa, That's all really it is, is collecting these amazing, valuable moments for our lives, because they pass and then they're gone and then you're back into the obsession swamp and then boom, lightning bolt to me like the more present you are it doesn't mean you're fully present like walking around, like some light being that's crazy like nobody's like that maybe, maybe a few people i mean even jesus probably had his shit list, you know what i mean like people that pissed him off, but like if we can bridge more of those moments, be alive more often and collect more of those moments.
Like that to me is kind of like blew my mind.
And so it just got, you know, I don't know what it is.
And I'm in this era where like, what is important to me is that and this.
To me, what you're doing, what we're doing here, is kind of that.
You know, like what's the distillation of the podcast?
It always was conversation.
It always was just sitting down and just talking and figuring out what's important to us in that moment.
It's always been that way.
Look at you.
You're ascending, Adam.
You know, that's a look-smaxing term, right?
Ascending.
But what you're ascending is Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Is that what's happening?
Yeah.
Okay.
And I have not microdosed before this podcast.
Don't worry, folks.
Uh, micro dosing on, on love and presence.
I'm macro dosing on love right now.
I love that.
I think that's absolutely correct.
And you know, any, any parent can testify to that.
I mean, you still have them.
You're going on college.
Yeah, I'm taking our youngest to the East Coast tomorrow to look at some colleges.
Yeah, it's like.
This is.
This is like the joy and the gift, you know, like you get to do these cool things.
Yeah.
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One thing that I got to do in the context of being grateful to have certain experiences.
I haven't been able to share this because we haven't done this in a while, but I was at South by Southwest last month and just had like a peak experience.
I know South by Southwest has been around for a long time and there's There's kind of grousing like oh, it's not as cool as it used to be.
And they leveled the convention center.
So the event was more diffused across Austin this year than it's typically like, more centralized around this convention center.
And people were complaining about that.
But convention centers aren't exactly inspiring places for, you know, idea exchange or like cultural, artistic events, and so i actually thought it was cooler.
Yeah, because that meant all the events were in different types of you know, they were domiciled in all different kinds of buildings.
Okay, it made it more interesting, didn't seem to put a damper on the experience at all, like i had such an amazing time.
But i had this moment Where in one day I went and introduced Tom Sachs onto the main stage and got to say a few words and shower him in love and bring him up on the stage.
Tom Sachs being a guest on the podcast, this New York City guy, sculptor and kind of icon in the art world, awesome guy, and he was so happy that i was there.
He gave me a hug and he's like i can't believe it and it was like are you kidding?
Like this is so cool, i can't believe you asked me to do this.
Like this is amazing.
And then i left there and i went over to the rivian house and got to spend like two hours with rj scaringe, the founder and ceo, And we got in a new R2 and drove around and it was all mounted with cameras.
And we recorded kind of comedians having coffee in cars or whatever.
That Seinfeld thing is like a version of that.
Yeah.
And that was so fun.
Yeah.
I had such a great time.
He's such a nice person.
And it was exciting to help tell the story of the release of the R2 vehicle for them, which is a great story.
Did you guys do any carpool karaoke?
We didn't sing.
Nobody wants to hear that.
Nobody wants to hear that.
No?
That video hasn't come out yet.
I don't know what's going on with that, but I'm sure that will come out at some point soon.
Very cool.
And then after that I left and went to a party at this bar in the late afternoon with Tyler, my stepson and producer, and it was a party put on by a Magazine slash production company called Monster Children, which is an Australian publication.
It's sort of a surf, skate, punk rock sort of sort of enterprise.
And I went there to meet Ed O'Brien from Radiohead and Ed's son, who I'd met the night before, to just get to know him, because later that week I was uh going to be doing a Q and a with him.
Uh, on the precipice of him releasing his second solo album, called blue morpho, and this documentary that he made to accompany that record, which is all about this uh journey that he's been on with mental health.
So in one day, Tom Sachs RJ, and then Ed O'Brien, like you know, of Radiohead, like my favorite band, you know, I was like how is this my life?
But I get to have this, these kinds of experiences and such a diversity of experiences, like a sculptor, you know and, and This guy who was reimagining automotive transportation, and then this musician in the most iconic band of our lifetime.
It was just so cool.
I just couldn't believe it was my life.
And then...
But it speaks to South by Southwest, what you're saying.
Yeah, it was great.
I was like, I couldn't imagine having a better experience, you know?
And then I got to host this conversation with Ed in a church like two days later.
After screening, his documentary was screened and then it was basically his cathedral.
And we got to have this conversation and they adorned the entire cathedral with plants.
And it was really about his mental health and his relationship to his creativity and just magical, you know.
Wow.
It was really, it was such a cool experience.
That is a cool experience.
Yeah.
I mean like, like I said, it just speaks to South by Southwest, still pulling in very interesting creative, influential people.
Right.
Still, still has it.
Yeah.
100%.
It feels more relevant.
Maybe this is just through my own personal biased experience or lens, but it does feel more culturally relevant than it has in the past, at least with respect to film, for example.
The Sundance Film Festival, that was always like the big thing.
And I don't know if that feels like it's maybe on the wane a little bit.
And the film side of South by Southwest feels definitely more important than it has in the past.
Is that right?
Yeah, just, I don't know.
It's cool.
And Austin's great.
You're just...
In this place where you're riding bikes around.
Everything's five minutes away and there's just so much going on.
You know, like you can't even begin to tap into you know 2 of what's happening during that festival because there's so much going on.
I mean you were on that stage with Ed.
Like, when you do those bigger events, those bigger venues, do you get nervous?
I always get nervous.
How do you calm yourself down?
Deep breaths.
But it's not bad nerves.
It's excitement because I want it to go well.
I want to make sure that I'm delivering for the audience and that I'm serving the person I'm speaking to and respecting them by being prepared and all that kind of stuff.
Is he touring the record around?
So the album comes out in May, I think.
So it's not coming out yet, but that um conversation, uh then, like coincided with the release of a Rolling Stone article on Ed that announced also that Radiohead is going to be touring again, which is pretty cool.
And you were saying to me that people don't realize that Ed is foundational to the sound itself.
Kind of like John Frusciante, without him, Chili Peppers wouldn't have become what they became.
All their best stuff came after that.
When you listen to his solo album, you really... understand his contribution to Radiohead.
He's the guy who's creating the entire sonic vibe of the band's sound.
He's the sound designer behind the scenes.
He's somebody who has always been comfortable, kind of receded into the background.
And if you watch concert footage or see performances of them, you know he'll be like leaning down, like turning knobs and, like you know, playing with wires and stuff like that.
But less comfortable being forward facing.
And this... second solo album is the first time he's actually attached his name to his album.
Like his first solo album was just EOB.
Like he didn't even put his whole name to it.
So he's sort of coming out and standing on his own two feet and like owning his, his talent and his relationship to music.
And it's kind of beautiful to watch, because in Radiohead and he said this many times his job is to serve the band and to support Tom York's beautiful lyricism and that extraordinary voice.
And it's scary to step outside of that and say, well, this is me, you know, outside of Radiohead.
And I don't think any of us could imagine.
Like, can you imagine being in a band that is that huge?
But because he is sort of somebody who is always been more in the background, he can still enjoy anonymity.
Like we were walking around South by Southwest and yes, some people recognize him, but a lot of people don't.
And I'm like, That dude's in Radiohead.
Yeah.
You know, it's you don't even know.
Yeah.
Right.
Well, especially in this era where we all have different famous people anyway, like nobody has the same famous people.
But I will take what pick one bone with you in saying Radiohead is the most iconic band of our lifetime.
I disagree.
Well, you're wearing a Nirvana T-shirt.
Yeah.
I mean, come on.
Is it really a debate?
Is there really a debate?
I mean, not to me, like to me, I think the greatest rock star since this, you know, in the modern in the modern day, since since the 60s, 70s.
It depends upon your metrics.
Yeah, because it was such a short lived band.
Yes, yes, yes.
You know, and and Radiohead has this greater canon of work.
And they're still going, you know, they're still doing stuff.
But if you're our age, I mean, it's like, you're wearing an iconic like Gen X t-shirt, right?
Like you're just, you're repping Gen X, you know?
And I'm a proud member of Gen X. Like I'm down with Nirvana, you know, hardcore.
And similarly, I'm wearing a Mike D t-shirt.
You are.
Mike D 5D.
You are.
And the reason I'm wearing this, and this relates to music, I guess we can kind of segue.
Yeah.
Is Mike D from the Beastie Boys, proud citizen of Malibu.
Sort of an icon in Malibu.
I never even knew he lived here.
Oh, you didn't?
No.
I don't know anything.
Dude, he's the man about town.
Is he really?
Yeah.
All right.
Surfer, lifestyle icon.
Like he moved to Malibu and he's really all about like healthy lifestyle.
When did he move here?
Not long ago.
Oh, forever ago.
Oh, okay.
Oh, forever.
He's lived here forever.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But hasn't put out new music yet. in a very long time.
Really?
And he has an album coming out soon, Mike D5D.
And he did a live performance in Malibu last Thursday.
Where, at Trankus?
No, on PCH.
There's a surf shop called Brothers Marshall.
Okay.
You know where the general hardware store is, like right by Las Flores?
Yes.
They took over that whole parking lot.
And he performed kind of like an unpublicized, if you live in Malibu, you know, kind of thing.
Like all of Point Doom showed up for this.
It was probably like 300 people.
Does he live in Point Doom?
Yeah, it was in Point Doom.
But it was all the way over there.
But it was down at, like Brothers Marshall was sort of behind it.
And the city of Malibu, like, you know, permitted this whole thing to happen.
And it was super cool.
Like it was a community event.
Like Malvi was there.
Rick Rubin was there.
Yeah.
You know, it was it was like a whole thing.
Yeah.
But it was super cool.
But Rick Rubin didn't Rick Rubin do check your head.
And I think you're right.
We might have to check the Internet for which records he produced was it?
Check your head.
The second and third uh, the paul's boutique.
I think did he do paul's boutique, did he not?
I'm not sure about that.
Check the internet, somebody can look.
So logan can look and double check.
Um yeah, rick rubin was there um, and the opening act was a band called.
Uh, very nice person.
Okay.
A very nice person.
Look this up too.
Very nice people.
Very nice person, which is, Mike D's son's band.
Okay.
Skylar and Davis.
All right.
And it's a cool band.
They performed at South by Southwest.
Right on.
They're young kids, but they're kind of coming up.
Uh, and then they played with Mike D also, which was really cool.
Playing with the kids.
And just to see Mike D do his thing.
It's like LeBron and Bronny, baby.
Mike D is a very quiet, kind of introverted person.
He's the Buddhist, right?
He's the Buddhist.
Wasn't he a Buddhist?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He did a record.
He did a Kirtan record many years ago with Bhagavan Das, who's the guy who married Julie and I.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
I mean, so, yeah.
Yeah.
With Bhagavan Das or Krishna Das?
With Bhagavan Das.
With Bhagavan Das.
But Mike D, I don't know him well, but I've met him a bunch of times.
He's a very quiet, introverted person.
Okay.
But then you see him on stage doing his thing and you're like this guy is a natural born performer yeah, you know, and he's up there and he's like doing the thing that he was born to do and everyone was so happy to see him do it.
That's awesome.
And he's got these new songs and i don't know.
It was like it was super cool.
So i'm, i'm rocking, i'm rocking the merch.
That's awesome.
From that experience, mike d, You know, when I was a million years ago, when I was going door to door to people's houses to get them to care about the ancient forests and try to save the ancient forests, I was.
Laurel Canyon was like prime territory because liberals and they had money.
And I went up there and I knocked on the door and I'm like right out of college.
And there's a beautiful woman sitting on like, in the kitchen.
You can see all the way through the house.
And um, there's two, two women, and they're looking at I'm like Hey, cause I'm like you know Hey, come on.
I gotta sign my petition, give money.
And um, it turned out, it was Ioni Skye.
And then, all of a sudden, Adam Horowitz comes out and sees me there.
And there's like a production trucks out front.
It's like this whole weird thing going on.
And I'm just trying to get in there and get and he comes and he takes me.
He moves me away like he puts his hand on my ear and he moves me out of like view of his home.
And he's like, what's going on here?
I'm like, oh, we're just doing this thing, man.
Yeah.
And, uh, he gave a hundred bucks.
He said, get out of here.
He gives me a hundred bucks and he goes away.
And then, as I'm coming back down later doing all the territory, one of the production guys comes up and says Hey man um, you know we're doing a party here tonight.
It's going to be kind of a music video party thing.
It's Friday skies record or whatever.
You're welcome to come by, bring some friends, come over and come to the party.
But I was so afraid of Adam that I didn't want to go.
I didn't go.
Dude.
How could you not go?
I don't know.
I don't know, man.
I don't know.
Why did you go?
You didn't have a friend to talk some sense into you?
A friend of mine in the group was like, dude, we got to go.
You have to take me there.
I can't go without.
I'm like, you go.
Just tell him it was you.
You could have gone.
Yeah, you blew that one.
I blew it.
Yeah, I blew it.
What is your relationship to music these days?
My Spotify age is 110.
Is that good?
No, I listen to, I'll tell you what I listen to.
I listen to, on the weekends, Alma Del Barrio.
That's KXLU 89.9.
It's a college radio station from Loyola Marymount here in town.
And on the weekends, They play old salsa and cumbia, all the old Latin music.
So it's been running for 50 plus years.
It's the best Latin music show in the world.
If you like Bad Bunny, this is the shit you should be listening to.
It's unbelievable.
And so if you're not familiar with it, but you like the beats, this is the place to go.
So it's 89.9 all day long.
So I do that.
And then I do Henry Rollins show every week.
He's KCRW.
Both these can stream anywhere in the world.
And so I do that.
And KCRW is like a pod.
You can listen to it anytime.
Alma del Barrio, you have to be streaming while it's going on.
And then otherwise it's kind of like Spotify and whatever I hear from these other places, I save on Shazam.
I Shazam a lot of stuff.
The only new band.
I know we talked about this before the only new bands.
New bands is where I'm kind of like a little lost.
Sometimes Henry Rollins will put some bands on.
Great Australian band called TV Colors that's new that I'm into.
Geese is really cool.
I got that from, I think, from Tiny Desk.
And then wet leg.
I like wet leg but like my new stuff is like.
Occasionally new stuff gets in there but I'm a lot of times listening to old music old jazz, old salsa, old rock and roll.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm obsessed with Geese.
I love Geese.
And Cameron Winter's burgeoning solo career.
Unbelievable.
That guy is off the charts talented.
I can't stop listening to him.
I know he's been sort of likened to his generation's Bob Dylan.
Is that right?
Time will tell, but...
He's so young and the fact that he's playing solo concerts at Carnegie Hall and then touring with the hottest rock band Right now it's pretty cool to see what he's doing.
Yeah, and I didn't realize that he was soloing at Carnegie Hall.
I missed that.
Yeah, and there's videos of Paul Thomas Anderson filming him on stage when he was at Carnegie Hall.
Is that right?
And who is he touring with?
Uh, cameron winter?
Yeah, he's the lead singer in geese.
No, i know, but who are they touring with right now?
Oh, i don't know.
I don't know.
You mean who's their opening act?
Yeah, i mean, they just played coachella the other day, but they're not the biggest band.
You said the biggest band.
They're like well, they're not the biggest band in the world, but they're the band that's getting the most energy right now in terms of like, new bands that are coming up.
They're not that new.
They've been around for a while.
But they're super young.
No, to me, they sound a lot like the Strokes, to be honest with you.
Like, they remind me of early Strokes.
I think they're really iterating on that.
Like, they're doing a lot of really interesting new stuff.
And it's just cool to see.
Yeah, it is cool.
Because there was a period of time where I thought, like, is rock over?
Like, are we done with it?
That's right.
Then you know, sure enough, like a band, like Geese comes along and you realize oh, there's more to say here.
Yeah, because EDM, EDM.
Well, that's why I say like Bad Bunny, EDM, like all this.
It all comes from musicianship.
And you can tell with Cameron Winter, you can tell with Geese, the musicianship is just top notch.
And so like to me, like it all starts there.
So that's why I like the old stuff because that's when musicianship really mattered more.
And so the more we get, I think, the more things advanced technologically.
I used to really like EDM when it was like more underground and stuff.
And now I don't really listen to it ever.
And so maybe I'm just this guy that doesn't like things once they get popular.
It's very possible.
That's that's true.
I am.
I am that.
Yeah.
But I like the grit.
I like it to come from the earth.
You know what I mean?
I like it.
I mean, rock and roll.
What's cool about it is it's a mix of the two, like you're saying, with Radiohead kind of creating that mood with electronic enhancement.
That's cool.
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At coachella right now, radiohead has this underground bunker really.
Have you seen this?
Yeah, and It's like going down into – I didn't see this personally.
I've just watched videos online.
You're going into some kind of fallout shelter underground.
Did you see Tenet, the movie Tenet?
Yes.
So you know, at the end, when they're kind of – they're doing the reverse pincher movement or whatever and they have to go underground to the place to get the whatever yeah, it's kind of like that you go in this tunnel and you go underground and it is this massive art installation uh, which I think is really cool, this merging of music and art, because there's so much interesting art associated, like iconography, associated with Radiohead.
And at the same time we have Gorillaz speaking of like semi-EDM right that is, having this kind of retrospective moment right now.
They were on Saturday Night Live.
They had this installation in downtown Los Angeles in the Arts District called House of Kong.
Did you know about this?
No, I didn't know about this.
Similarly, this was like a temporary museum piece, where you would go in to this seemingly dilapidated building from the outside called house of kong and inside aligning all the walls, like you kind of walk through this experience of the band with all of the um, all of the iconography, like all of the, the character drawings, starting from the first iterations of them and how it evolved over time.
So it's this merging of visual art with music that I think is really cool.
Well, I mean, that goes back to Burning Man, right?
I mean Burning Man.
And then wasn't Coachella kind of iterating on Burning Man and making it a more commercial like mainstream music experience with art?
It always had art installations.
Yeah, I suppose.
Yeah, Coachella always had that.
I remember when Coachella...
I don't know how much it costs to go to Coachella these days, but like early days it was like a hundred bucks and you can get one day passes.
It's a lot now.
Now you need a certain number of Instagram followers to even be able to buy a ticket, I guess.
Are you going?
No, I've never gone.
You've never gone?
The boys have gone many times.
Julie's gone.
It's a bit much for me.
Honestly, but I like watching.
I like watching videos of it.
I could tell a derelict Coachella story right now, but I'm not sure.
Yeah, no, but I would say this.
I've been stuck in my Gen X music bubble forever, and I realize I need to break out of this.
It's just becoming too repetitive and I need to.
In the same way, I'm exploring a different relationship with the podcast.
Like I want to explore a different relationship with music.
And one thing you'll discover, like Zoom is too young.
You're at the age where You're trying to impress upon him your musical taste, I'm sure, right?
Yes.
But when they become teenagers, they commandeer the music selection in the car, right?
Yeah.
And then you have this opportunity to start to listen to what they like.
And so I've been leaning into that.
And what you realize is like oh, your kids are the portal to like what's actually happening and what's cool and like what they're interested in.
And I've really expanded my, my like kind of musical interests as a result of that.
And when I go into the gym on those early mornings. sometimes I'm preparing for a podcast.
And so I'll watch videos on the TV of you know some person who I'm going to be speaking to later that day.
But if I don't have that, I've been more and more just exploring music and, like Oh Jaya likes this band.
Like let's see what's on YouTube with this band.
Or like watching, you know, live geese concerts or Tiny Desk Concerts or I like Tiny Desk.
KEXP has a series of amazing music live performances.
I should check them out.
Which is really cool.
I love those local stations.
And then my guy, Jack Coyne, who hosts this show called Trackstar in New York City.
He has um videos of like live performances in his studio.
And I've just, it's opened my world to all these cool bands like geese and Cameron winter are just one like turnstile, like this super cool band that I'm, I'm gotten really into that is, um, kind of punk, kind of rock and roll.
They just had a huge show at Coachella too.
And I think they're just so exciting and so energetic.
And what I love about Turnstile is, in this age in which artists, creative people musicians, are being fed this story, that The only way to be successful is to be just constantly releasing stuff, like putting music out, like every week a new song, a new music video, a new this, a new TikTok.
These are guys.
This band went in the other direction and whatever money they made from their live performances or whatever you know their music, they reinvested in the band and they have made these extraordinary, like music video documentaries that are executed at just the highest level.
Like they're art pieces in and of themselves.
That have just put them at a different kind of tier of craftsmanship.
Okay.
And their live performances are just, you know, so energetic.
Like, and I just think it's really.
Turning style.
They're like taking this punk rock genre and then they're adding this high level of like visual art um, this visual art like aspect to it cool, that i think is super interesting.
Um, and then, in terms of like other bands that i've gotten into, have you heard of angine de poitrine?
No, so this is this uh quebecois, like french canadian band.
Yeah, it's a, it's just two people And they dress up in these.
I don't even know what you would call these costumes, but you don't see their faces.
Like they're wearing these elaborate costumes and it's just instrumental.
And it's the most interesting musicianship that I've heard in a long time.
So they're having like this moment right now where they're breaking through.
That's really cool.
Montreal, great city.
So yeah.
And wet leg.
I love wet leg.
I love wet leg.
But there's, there's a lot of bands.
I've noticed also, like in this Angine de Poitrine vein, where they're they're, they're obscuring themselves.
So they're anonymous.
You don't know who these people are.
Mass singer.
Which maybe was started with with gorillas.
Yes right, like being anonymous and creating creating characters.
Yeah yeah, yeah.
Or marshmallow, i guess.
Now yeah um, there's another band called kurong bin.
Yeah, i love kurong bin.
Yeah, I'm super in.
They've been around a while.
They've been around.
Yeah.
But like, I'm discovering this.
So there you go.
But you introduced Zuma.
Zuma is very intentional.
We already listen.
He already dictates the playlist, but it's cool stuff right now.
But I think your point is like he's going to, he's going to start hearing stuff we have no idea about.
He's going to bring it to you.
And that's cool.
So it's been fun.
What about this new band, Manger?
Big fan.
Big fan.
Well, this is the most happening band.
The most happening band.
Manger is my wife, Julie Pyatt's band.
She just put out her first song and music video this past week.
If you follow me on social media, you've enjoyed that.
Yeah.
She's got more to come.
And it's been great to see her step into this really authentic creative expression.
And she's so happy doing it.
This is what she should have been doing a long time ago.
And she's rocking it.
It's just great.
She rocks, man.
Like owning it.
She knows it, dude.
It's pretty cool.
It's like Patti Smith, Sheryl Crow, Julie Pyatt.
You know, it's in that name.
Oh, and you wrote that beautiful bio for her.
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean, it's all real.
It's true.
And then to have your, you know, you guys, your family involved.
It's amazing.
Her son's involved.
It's super cool.
Yeah.
It's super cool.
And she said something the other day that's so true.
Like, so we went and saw Mike D and he's playing with his two boys.
Right.
And then you have Jeff Tweedy, who's like touring with his kids right now.
Yeah.
Julie's playing with her boys.
Yeah.
It's a thing.
It is a thing, musicians playing with their kids yeah, it's cool, that's how it goes, man.
That shows you how old rock and roll is, i know, but it's exciting to see uh, you know, julie flourishing creatively and the kind of happiness that.
That and the sense of satisfaction that comes with feeling like you're fully expressing yourself authentically.
Yeah,
And then also just the idea of music, you know, it's like it's interesting.
Like I've been learning guitar last few years and just like but I did like I was a choir boy.
I sang all the way up to college.
With the bells?
I didn't do the bells.
No, I didn't do the bells.
But then having music not really be my expression.
After that became more writing and then finding it again.
There's something about the music itself.
Just having the music in you and around you and you're making it, it just uplifts your energy, I think.
Unless you're doing it out of pathos.
If you're doing it just purely out of love, which is easy when you're new um, and it's and, and she's made it new again.
Essentially, you know like, and her whole story amazing, like that.
Her brother is a serious musician, her uncle is a serious musician right, like so she's got it in the blood yeah yeah, what have you been watching?
Okay, so media diet, media diet.
Most recent thing i watched all the way through is something called the dark wizard, which is an HBO documentary series that's coming online on Tuesday.
So by the time this airs, it'll be out.
It's all about Dean Potter, the great climber, free soloist, base jumper, wingsuit pilot.
And it's his whole story.
So Dean was one of the stars After the Stone Monkeys, one of the like the punk rock guy that came in and just blew up the Yosemite Valley and right away was like free soloing stuff nobody would even think of doing.
And he was before Alex.
It was Dean.
But what you don't realize is that Dean was 6'6".
I never knew that.
6'6".
So there is advantages to being tall on a face, I guess.
But like there's also serious disadvantages.
It's kind of like a small person's game.
You know, this kind of it's like gymnastics.
So, like there's, there's a scene of him like soloing a root on the top of El Cap, that root that Alex has to wedge his body in, and kind of shimmy up that crack.
He's 6'6 doing that.
Like, I mean, he's wedged and you can see the pain.
And so you know it's a very.
This guy is a beautiful soul, an artistic vision, a really amazing person.
His journals that he has, they have access to his journals.
So his journals are just incredible.
And so you get a sense of the of his psychology and and kind of he's one of those guys that had mood swings.
And so he was depressed a lot.
But he also was a groundbreaking athlete.
So it's amazing to watch.
I think it's four episodes.
Yeah.
Four episodes.
Each one's about an hour.
And you go deep into it.
And of course, it's a tragic end.
He died when he was 43 in a wingsuit base jump accident in Yosemite Valley.
You know, when it was an outlaw sport.
He's like one of the great outlaw athletes.
And Alex is cast as the antagonist, which is, I think, refreshing for Alex also, but also kind of cool.
How is he the antagonist?
So basically, when Dean is the he's he's the king of the valley, he's the man.
Right.
And then Alex shows up and he's a teenager living out of his van.
And he just starts free soloing stuff that he's heard Dean wants to do, and he does it before.
And then the cutaway conversations with Alex.
You get a sense of the killer instinct that created this amazing athlete that is Alex Honnold.
You get a sense of it.
You don't really understand why he's that way.
Like, was there something that he show up?
Was he treated obnoxiously by the cool crowd?
Is, is it not?
But one thing that comes across is like, Dean is climbing from a lot of pathos.
Even in his early climbs, when he does this amazing route, he's up there, like you know, howling like a monkey and making it very, very much a kind of.
There's rage involved, there's pathos, there's passion and love too, but there's also this other stuff.
And just being around Alex and watching him climb and seeing it at the end of Free Solo he climbs from a place of joy.
He just loves it.
So, even though he's the engineer, he's not the artist.
Like Dean is the artist.
Dean is like the.
He has this amazing artistic vision.
Alex is more the kind of engineering guy that sees how to do something and then goes out and does it.
But it's interesting to watch them both climb and see the difference.
You know it's funny that you think of the engineer guy as the guy climbing from love and this guy climbing from pain.
But it does seem that way.
And, of course, the dark.
You know, Dean um at the end uh, you know he has this.
This relationship with Ravens comes into play.
There's just like an incredible, it's just an incredible film.
And he's, he's just one of those iconic athletes that was gone too soon.
Yeah.
Four part series.
Four part series.
And he died in a wingsuit.
Died in a wingsuit base jump with his friend um um, graham.
I forget his, i'm spacing on it, they call him grambo.
So it's dean and grambo who die.
They both are going for this notch from a place called taft uh, taft peak, i think it is or taft exits and exit off taft mountain and yosemite, and they're going for this notch.
Um and graham had done it before, Dean had not.
There's a competitive aspect of Dean that comes into play and he's it's there with Alex and Alex does outdo him.
You know, Alex is the new athlete on the block that does take his place.
I think towards the end, he was the boss of the wingsuit guys.
He revitalized base jumping in Yosemite, Dean did, and he had a whole crew.
A guy that I'm writing about, named Jeff Shapiro, was on the inner circle with Dean at the last couple of years of his life.
It was this amazing elite group of Phenomenal climbers and phenomenal, phenomenal base jumpers and wingsuit pilots.
And just they were just raging across the valley doing this amazing stuff.
And at first, Dean was against flying terrain.
He wanted to fly long high flights, but then he gradually got as more people started doing these terrain lines, which is where you're closer to the edge, because you can feel the speed more, but it's also much more dangerous.
He started to do that and he started to do these insane terrain flights.
I mean, he was, An amazing wingsuit base jumper.
But then Graham, a younger guy who was his protege, started to do these incredible jumps and that that kind of
Perked Dean's competitive nature up again.
And and Jeff told me that that confirms that the one thing this this is amazing.
The one thing that doesn't come across, that I think they show the video but they don't talk about it is the athleticism.
At one point Alex references kind of free basing which was free selling with a base rig so that you have some safety net.
You know, they use some out of context quote of Alex kind of dismissing that.
I'm not sure how much he really dismissed that, but they use that nice quote to make it seem that way.
But Dean, being able to fall off a face and then position your body where you're tracking away from the mountain talking to Jeff, the athleticism involved with that is just next level.
You see the footage of it.
It's incredible to see him do it.
But to actually perform that is very rare.
So you were talking about a, you know, iconic athlete in his own right.
So you're working on this uh writing project uh, interviewing lots of these, uh wingsuit guys right yeah, what have you learned?
Like, what is the common uh, you know, strain across that ecosystem of athlete that is different from you know, i don't know the endurance athlete or the tennis player like, what's unique about that subculture and that personality type that you've discovered?
I'm not sure i i have figured out, figured that out.
Yet that's a good question.
Um, i hope next time, when we're actually talking about a book that's out, i'll have that down.
This is why you're interviewing them.
I'm still very much in the reporting phase.
What I will say is there's something about being close to death like that that makes you appreciate life, I think.
And talking to Jeff, I can tell you from Jeff's perspective, being close to that, it does bring into focus these moments that we talked about before and how rare and precious they are.
And that's Jeff, though.
He's a thinking man.
You know, some of them are just chasing the chasing the fun.
You know, there's definitely people who are just like, this is fucking awesome.
I'm going to rage, you know, like that kind of adrenaline rush.
But then there's others that are a little bit of a mix.
I think Dean was an artist.
You know, there's an amazing shot in this thing where he is. doing a slack line.
He's also one of the early slack liners.
And so he was.
He walked solo to slack line in front of the rising full moon in Yosemite Valley cathedral peak.
He strung the sack line between the two kind of peaks of this mountain.
And and he's he's doing it.
And Mikey Schaefer, who is part of the crew in Taipei, he shot it for Dean.
It's one of the most beautiful things you'll ever see in your life.
This video footage.
It's just incredible to see the silhouetted Dean in front of this massive moon.
Yeah.
Wow.
Yeah.
So that's what I've been watching.
Yeah, that's the main thing.
That's cool.
Check that out.
Yeah.
On the subject of like athlete nonfiction streaming content.
Yes.
I did watch the Mariah Wilson documentary on Netflix.
OK.
That story is one we've covered.
We covered here on Roll On the story of the gravel racer.
Uh, Mariah Wilson, who was very much on the come up and was going to be, you know, like this just, you know, phenom in that sport, being murdered in cold blood by the girlfriend of Colin Strickland, this woman, Kristen Armstrong.
Uh, it's an insane story.
It's like kind of perfect for Netflix because it's like true crime, you know.
Yeah.
I wouldn't call it a cinematic masterpiece, but if you're interested in that story and that world, I think it's worth watching.
What I took away from it was A Just the premeditation of Kristen Armstrong going into this murder.
They track all of her movements in the car and all this sort of stuff.
It's really bone chilling.
And then second to that, and perhaps more importantly...
The impact that it is, that it has had not just on, like Mariah's loved ones and family, but also on Colin Strickland, like this guy is, will never be the same.
You know, of course, see him interviewed after in the aftermath of it.
And you know he will carry that to his grave.
You know it's, it's.
How could you shed that?
Yeah yeah, other than that, what have i seen?
That's been good.
Well, i saw my boy dan mcpherson's new movie, beast okay, which opened this weekend.
Do you know this movie?
No, but i saw you post about it, so tell me about it.
So Dan McPherson is a friend of mine.
We've been friends since like 2012.
Aussie, former Ironman, half Ironman endurance athlete, well known in Australia.
He was the host of Dancing with the Stars for a number of years back in the day, moved to LA to become an actor.
Things weren't going amazing.
He moved back to Australia and he's had some success since then.
He's been in lots of stuff.
He was in Foundation, HBO sci-fi show.
He was on a TV show called Strike Back.
He did a couple movies in supporting roles with Russell Crowe.
But Beast, he's the lead.
And he plays a mixed martial artist, like an MMA fighter.
And he kills it.
And Russell Crowe plays a supporting role to dan, which is super cool, uh yeah and, and russell was a co-writer on this movie and, i think, a producer as well, and it's released by lion's gate and it's, you know, in movie theaters, and so it's just like a very cool moment for him, for somebody who's been in his game for so long, to finally be uh, you know, in a leading man role.
So it's morning, we worked out.
So it was great to see him and celebrate that.
So I enjoyed that.
He did a great job.
You know, I know him as a guy I used to ride bikes with and talk about triathlon.
And then when he got this strike back show, he bulked up because he was playing like a special forces guy.
So he got all like super jacked and bulky.
But then he had to learn how to become a martial artist.
And he spent three years like studying jujitsu and Muay Thai and all this really thing, so that he could, you know, kind of really acquit himself well in this movie.
And, by all accounts, he has done an amazing job, because all of these people in the fighting community are like that is the most realistic portrayal of our sport that i've seen on screen.
So it's pretty cool.
You mean like people like mark zuckerberg?
Yeah yes the, the experts, The martial arts experts.
The best guys.
You know what?
I studied Muay Thai once.
Did you?
I did.
So when I covered Thailand for Lonely Planet, I was living in Phuket for periods of time.
And so whenever I was there, I'd go.
There was a Muay Thai gym there and I would do it.
But they kept trying to get me to do the grappling stuff.
But, you know, Rich, you know me.
Do I look like a grappler to you?
You really don't.
I don't grapple.
No.
I do not grapple.
You grapple with your emotions and your neuroses.
You're a black belt grappler.
When I'm grappling, something's going wrong.
I want to flow.
That's where I want to be.
But isn't that what a Muay Thai fighter does?
Like at the highest level you're in, you're flowing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The highest level grappling is flowing.
That's the thing.
That's what I haven't figured out.
Flowing is grappling is flowing.
Now we're in a, we're like in a, uh, we're in a vortex going to nowhere in this conversation.
Yeah.
Let's go to the moon.
So what do you have to say about Artemis, Adam?
Um, I loved it.
You know, we made it a family moment to watch the launch.
Um, We watched the launch, we watched the splashdown.
I wasn't fully listening to everything, but there's a great podcast I was tuning into.
13 Minutes Presents the BBC podcast.
That was a cool little.
It's a talky show with a British astronaut and then some science journalists and they talked about everything.
And so they kind of brought more perspective on a daily basis to what was happening.
I mean, I just think it's.
I think like the main takeaways for me are like I am a lunatic, meaning I love the moon, right.
The language of these things, lunatic sphere of influence.
Is that the origin?
Is that the etymology of the word lunatic?
Yes.
People who love the moon.
Is it that they love the moon or is it that like, the full moon is like yeah, it's like yeah, it is.
Yeah.
It's like howling at the moon.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Moon howler.
So lunatic sphere of influence.
So at one point.
Artemis crew went beyond the influence of the gravitational pull of Earth and into the gravitational influence of the Moon.
So it was under the Moon's sphere of influence.
I didn't know that that was the thing.
Sphere of influence.
What does that mean, though?
I don't understand.
It means you're under the gravitational influence.
Yeah, I understand that, but why is that?
Well, you've heard of the phrase sphere of influence, like you know, somebody like rich.
You're saying that is the etymology.
It must've come from the Apollo times.
I'm guessing.
I mean, it comes from physics and then free return.
Another cool phrase.
Cause after they, so the, the, the crew went up, they were closer to earth.
They got, they approached the moon and Then they did an interesting slingshot maneuver around to get on this path to go around the far side of the moon.
They're the furthest away in space of all time.
And they get the amazing eclipse shot and all of that.
And then they get on this path to where they're, on the path of free return, which meant even if they'd run out of fuel, everything went bad, they were coming back to earth, which is interesting to think about, like how physics works, like these smart people that all the math that's one thing that i got from that podcast all the math, all the physics, everything that you hear about, what's it for?
It's for this kind of stuff.
You know it makes that possible to get back on that path of free return and to get back.
And so You know there's so many little moments, the naming of the craters.
But for me, like I love the Apollo program.
I have Earthrise in our dining room.
You know, like I have a little print of that.
So I love this stuff.
And yeah, it was a cool moment.
I did think on the way when they splashed down.
I felt for them cause they splashed down and all of a sudden they had to reboot their sat phone.
Like they couldn't call anybody.
And then it took forever in the mid Navy to do their thing.
And it's like.
It's like coming off of a trans continental flight and then being stuck on the tarmac for like an hour and a half.
Yeah.
There's something so uh, relatable about the very minor challenges that they faced in the context of just the grandest, you know like, most exquisitely executed mission ever.
Like They landed in exactly where they said they would like within like, within seconds of what they predicted.
Right.
Right.
Everything was just nailed to such a precise, insane degree.
But they did have certain challenges.
But then they still couldn't get out.
Yeah, they couldn't.
So I saw a really funny tweet about this.
Hold on.
This person, Leah Crane, who I don't even know.
It just came up on my timeline.
She says...
Deeply, deeply hilarious that everything on the Artemis II mission worked perfectly except Outlook, a conference call and briefly, the toilet.
Which is just like any office workers experience, right?
Like, oh, their issues are the same as mine.
Yeah, that's brilliant.
Outlook.
That's brilliant.
Yeah, that's brilliant.
But I think there's just something beyond just how extraordinary the whole thing was.
And you were more locked in on it than I was.
I watched the splashdown.
I didn't watch the launch.
And I wasn't following it that intensely.
But here are a group of middle-aged people who are just good people, who are smart, who are doing a cool thing.
And there's a wholesomeness to it.
And a hopefulness and an optimism that is like exactly the prescription we need right now, you know, and like i just appreciate that and i'm grateful for that, like i just think it's, i think it's super cool.
And they named they named uh, crater after the crew chief, reed.
What's reed's last name?
Maybe hastings, i forget, but um, his.
And then they named it for his wife, who died of cancer like a couple years before, colleen colleen.
Yeah, The two things I want to say is that they risked their lives.
It was a one in 20 chance that those heat shields wouldn't work on the way back because they were flawed heat shields and they'd had in the test flight.
And these got these this crew of four people still did it.
Now, why would they do it?
People would ask you know, some former astronauts were saying they shouldn't have done it and that NASA was was being unnecessarily risky.
But.
You know one thing I will say from interviewing these wingsuit base jumpers?
And then I think I just got pooped on by one of your birds, but in a good way.
That's good luck.
It's good luck.
You know, what you realize is these people will go for it because if this didn't happen now, it would happen two years from now and these astronauts might not get the chance again.
So this was their chance.
And it was a one, they'd figured it out from the data, a one in 20 chance.
And that was enough, that was good enough for them.
And so they risked their lives, man.
It was not like, I mean, it's easy to, they're back now and it's, it was always working.
So it seemed fine.
But like They had just they had CO2 scrubbers that were getting that.
You know it's like a rebreather.
It's like living in a rebreather, like these diving rebreathers that don't have bubbles, where what you breathe out gets scrubbed and served back to you as oxygen.
That's what they were breathing on.
So they had backup tanks and everything if they had to get back.
But they were living off these CO2 scrubbers and they were risking their ass.
I mean, it's very, very interesting.
And it's also cool, like you're saying, in this era of the United States where we're waging war right now and needless war that is uh, you know, that is causing all this kind of repercussions from, and it seems like almost mindless the way it's been executed and and lacking in humility and and and thoughtfulness.
You know, if you're going to go to war, I would wish you were humble and thoughtful about how you're going to execute it versus rash and maybe stupid.
Um And now.
This is the other thing.
The United States is executing this amazing thoughtful, peerless experience, the deepest we've ever done.
So it shows you the capability of this country in both ways.
And it's kind of like encouraging but also makes you kind of feel like wow, we're very schizophrenic, like all countries are.
Yeah, the polarity, like the extreme polarity of like what's happening politically and you know, globally in terms of global conflict, and like this war that we're in and all the insanity that's happening right now, and then this, this just incredibly uplifting thing at the same time yes, like It's a weird schizophrenic situation.
Like it's a yes and kind of deal, I guess.
But here's where they tie together.
There's like this dominance, this lust for dominance, that is at the core of our culture, that has always existed in the United States.
And I think Trump is part of that and all of this is part of that, but also, like NASA's part of that, like Artemis is goal is to get close to the moon so we can build a base on the fucking moon.
I mean, it's crazy.
Like it's crazy.
I don't want a base on the moon.
Do you want a base on the moon?
I'm into space exploration and you know, ultimately long term like expanding the horizon for our species.
I'm not into just replicating the mistakes that we're making here elsewhere.
You know what I mean?
So if you watch that TV show, like for all mankind, like it really explores that idea.
And what was the um?
That beautiful Brad Pitt movie that's about his relationship with his father, where he
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Ad Astra.
I just rewatched Ad Astra like a month ago.
And it's the same thing.
They go to the moon.
And the moon is just fast food restaurants.
And like, you know, it's just, they just, we just export like our culture.
Like you think it's going to be different and the same.
You know turf wars and territorialism and we're just replicating our mistakes.
Right.
So this is the point you're making.
That's the point I'm making.
And like, by the way, not for nothing, using a rich phrase, The moon does influence our tides, which is like the ocean and the weather and everything.
It's like, let's be careful with the fucking moon.
You know what I mean?
Like, it's like it's it is part of this. biological system.
So let's have humility.
You know, it does take balls.
So it's not like humility is always the best play.
It does take incredible guts and strength and focus.
And I appreciate those things, too.
But like.
I think to be really strong you have to have humility, like I think, often force is mistaken for strength.
And strength is something totally different than that.
It includes humility.
And so that's my only concern, my only note, my only note for NASA.
Make sure we're humble about this.
But that's not NASA's remit, you know what I mean?
Their remit is to do the exploration part.
I know, I know.
The rest of it is up to us and the government, I suppose, right?
Yeah.
We haven't answered the most important question the whole purpose of this Artemis II mission, which was to put the test to the flat earthers.
Have we put the nail in the coffin of the flat earth movement with this?
Definitely not.
You know, somewhere there's a flat earth.
What is the argument?
What is the flat earther argument now?
I'll tell you.
Somewhere there's a flat earther listening to this being like I can't believe Rich and I are falling for this Artemis bullshit.
Like that didn't happen.
So it just didn't.
So so basically, it's just it's saying like this was another Stanley Kubrick ask, like you know, Hollywood production, and none of this happened.
Do you know where Stanley Kubrick was the day of the launch?
Is he still alive?
Maybe he directed it.
Oh, right.
He directed it from beyond.
Are we there yet?
Is this where we're at?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Let's end on a hopeful note, Adam.
All right.
Ending on a hopeful note.
Yeah.
Splash us down.
OK.
With our damaged heat shields.
Well, I think you know, the takeaway from Artemis, from the astronauts perspective that I've seen, is the same as the takeaway of almost every you know experience from all the astronauts.
It's that they, when they're up there, they fall in love, in the in, with the beauty of the earth and the and everybody on earth.
And so you know, you see, when you're out in the vacuum, in the void, you see what we have so clearly and it's so beautiful.
You know, it stands out so incredibly, And so I mean I think that's where I'm at.
It's like let's enjoy the beauty of what we have because, even though some terrible things are happening, terrible things have always happened, like we've said.
And so I think that's the takeaway for me.
It's the same thing I said at the beginning of this episode, which is, I try to focus on the moments of beauty because they're sublime.
It's not just one beautiful thing that doesn't matter.
It's like everything.
And so the more deep we can be in those moments of you know nirvana, um and Artemis was a moment of nirvana for all of us together that we can share in then um, all the better.
So, you know, thank you to NASA and everyone for doing that because it's beautiful.
Artemis II was a one-upper to Alex Honnold's Type A 101 climb.
They really one-upped him with that, didn't they?
They really did.
But it is the consistent refrain of every astronaut who has had that experience.
When they come back and they're like, when you have that perspective of the earth from such a distance, you realize oh, it's a spaceship, we're all on it together.
It's so small, we have more in common than then.
Then you know much more in common than our differences and they repeat that and we understand that intellectually.
But there's something so experiential about that, like because it's so moving for them, like it changes them.
And I wish we could be changed just by hearing them reflect that back to us.
Like we get it, but we don't get it like they get it.
And if we did, maybe we would be better at resolving those differences and avoiding going into poorly conceived global conflicts and, you know, killing each other unnecessarily.
Well, you're bringing us down again.
We gotta bring us back up, which is that there are moments like that, that Life is for the person to experience.
Life is to be experienced.
To the tie, the wingsuit to Alex, to this to the astronauts, to everything we're talking about, to what we were talking about at the top of self-improvement.
Life is an active sport.
It's a sport for the people in the game.
That's, I think that's the takeaway is you can find those moments of connectivity.
They're available to you here on earth all the time.
You have to seek them out though.
They're not going to necessarily bite you.
Maybe a few times in your lifetime, something will smash you on the head.
Some realization.
But you can decide that I'm going to go sit by the sea, walk along the river, walk through the farmland.
You could find a way to connect with the beauty of the earth every day of your life.
I encourage it.
I think there's nothing more empowering than just sitting down and watching the world go by sometimes.
That's what I think is the most important thing.
And I wish more people would do that.
And not just the world, not just like in a cafe, although everything's wildlife, really.
We're all wildlife.
But like, if you can get out to some place where nature is really showing itself, you can have those moments yourself.
I love it.
You did it.
You splashed us down beautifully.
Did I splash down?
More evidence of Adam Skolnick ascending.
I think we did it, man.
Thanks for doing this.
Thanks, man.
I love this.
This is cool.
We're out here.
It's amazing.
I felt more present with you in this one.
Yeah.
To be continued.
Thanks, everybody, for tuning in.
Thank you.
Till next time.
Peace.
