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Now, on with the show.
From the brains behind Brains On, it's Smash Boom Best.
The show for people with big opinions.
Hi, I'm Molly Bloom, and this is Smash Boom Best, the show where we take two things, smash them together and ask you to decide which one is best.
Today's episode has its ups and downs, literally.
One side is all about scaling up, up, up.
The other is about zooming down, down, down.
It's rock climbing versus sledding.
Both are fun, both get your blood pumping, both can be done on a mountain, but only one can be the smash boom.
Best here to rally for rock climbing is writer, comedian and podcaster tim barnes.
Rock on and sounding off for sledding is the host of npr's.
It's been a minute, brittany luce.
Yes, i'm ready to go off about sledding the best winter activity.
We're so excited to have you here.
And here to decide which one is the ultimate activity is Magda from Longmont, Colorado.
She loves singing in her choir and solving logic puzzles.
She's writing her own book, and she lives in a house with 17 bunnies.
Welcome, Magda.
Hey, nice to be here, Molly.
So Magda, 17 bunnies, where do they live in your house?
Um, anywhere my mom can fit them, really.
And actually it may be more because well, actually currently there's seven, but one of our bunnies started building a nest today, so we might be getting some baby bunnies.
Oh my gosh.
And I will call them all Fluffy because that is my job.
Okay, so every bunny in your house is named Fluffy?
Yes.
Well, no.
Every bunny in my house has a name.
Okay.
I call them all fluffy.
Oh, okay.
Is it hard to keep them straight?
Yeah, for me it is.
Okay, so what is the best thing about having a house full of bunnies?
Getting to watch my family be all cuddly with them and when they're all cute, fluffy.
The fluffiness is really fun.
Fluffiness is good.
And what is the most challenging thing about living with all those bunnies?
They are everywhere.
Have they showed up somewhere where you're like, how did you even get there?
Yeah, before we got a gate, they used to run up the stairs and it was like bunny protocol.
And I would get a horse, like those little hobby horsey things the sticks with the horse heads and just like get back downstairs.
Incredible.
So I'm wondering, Magda, you've listened to the show a lot.
Do you have any advice for our debaters today?
I actually made a little song about that.
What?
Yes.
I'm ready.
Let's go.
Humor, facts, no fallacies, and that is how you'll get to be the champ.
Oh, my goodness.
Oh, and also music.
I am a total music nerd.
Music will probably end up swaying me somehow.
Oh, okay.
Good to know.
Very good advice, and it came in song form.
Incredible.
Well, Magda, we're going to see who Magda picks.
Is it team sledding or team rock climbing?
But first, here are the rules of the game.
Every debate consists of four rounds.
The Declaration of Greatness. the micro round, the sneak attack, and the final six.
After each round, our judge Magda, will award points to the team that impresses her the most, but she'll keep her decisions top secret until the end of the debate.
Listeners, we want you to judge too.
Mark down your points as you listen.
At the end of the show, head to our website smashboomorg, and vote for whichever team you think won.
Okay, Magda, Tim, and Brittany, are you ready?
Yes.
Let's see what this goes.
Yes, and I'll be writing my own points down as the game goes along, too, just to compare at the end.
Perfect.
Then it's time for the Declaration of Greatness.
In this round, our debaters will present a well-crafted, immersive argument in favor of their side.
Then they'll each have 30 seconds to rebut their opponent's statements.
We flipped a coin, and Brittany, you're up first.
Fill our noggins with cool facts about toboggans.
All right.
Okay, okay, okay, okay.
Let me just start by saying... can get a bad rap.
There's less sunlight, temperatures drop, but do you know what makes winter so much fun?
Sledding.
You get all bundled up, trudge your way up a hill with your sled, get to the top and take a deep breath, and then you go for it.
There's nothing quite like the rush of zipping down a hill, carving your own path through freshly fallen snow.
You can go solo, double up with a buddy, or create a train of sleds with a bunch of friends.
And there are so many different types of sleds.
You can go totally tubular on a toboggan or spin around on a saucer.
You can even sled on a piece of cardboard.
It's fast.
It's fun.
It's physics.
You see, with rock climbing, you're working against gravity.
You're trying to scale up a boulder.
And gravity is pulling you back down to Earth.
Gravity's weighing me down.
I'm losing my grip.
But with sliding, gravity is your friend.
It pulls you forward, giving you speedy momentum.
Work your magic, gravity.
Wow, I feel like I'm at an amusement park.
Hold it right there, Dorino.
Did you know the whole reason we have roller coasters is because of sleds?
No way!
Yes way.
It started back around the 1600s.
People in Russia wanted some winter fun, so they built giant wooden sleds called Flying Mountains.
The slides were up to 80 feet tall, about the same height as an eight-story building, and were covered in ice blocks.
Riders would climb up flights of stairs to the tippy top and then slide down the steep slopes using sleds also made out of them.
Over time, people made new rides with tracks and carts, and that's how we eventually got roller coasters.
Slick, dude.
But sledding is so much more than just a fun winter activity or the precursor to roller coasters.
For thousands of years, people have used sleds to move around in snow and even sand.
That's right.
Sledding isn't even limited to snow.
Did you know that the ancient Egyptians used sleds?
According to historians, people in ancient Egypt used sleds to help move heavy things across the sand, like stone blocks or even statues.
Meanwhile, indigenous people across the Arctic have been using dog sleds to get around icy lands and carry supplies for about 10000 years.
Teams of dogs, like huskies, are especially trained to wear harnesses and pull sleds through ice and snow, kind of like horses pulling carriages or reindeers pulling Santa's sleigh which is basically a magical sled, by the way.
Ho, ho, ho!
Some sled dogs can pull up to 100 pounds and can cover an average of 20 miles per day.
Sled dogs have helped people move stuff around throughout history, from the days of the fur trade to the gold rush.
They've even helped deliver mail across Alaska and Canada.
So sliding isn't just a cheery winter sport.
It's rich in history, purpose, and celebration.
It brightens up the gloomiest of seasons and helps us embrace the magic of winter.
So zip up your parka, grab a sled and a thermos full of hot chocolate.
You're in for one heck of a ride.
Incredible and exhilarating fact-filled argument there for sledding.
Magda, what stood out to you about Brittany's argument?
Well, I am a huge roller coaster fan.
They are so fun, and I had no clue that sledding led to that.
And also, my sister is obsessed with sled dogs, like the Adidara Trail.
She obsessed over that for a while, and...
The doggies are cute.
Sledding, more than just a fun little thing to do on a Sunday afternoon.
Okay, Tim, it is time for your rebuttal.
You have 30 seconds to tell us why sledding is more frostbite than fun.
And your time starts now.
Okay.
Okay.
There's some interesting slander against rock climbing I felt in there.
You described – first of all okay, you described sledding as falling down to earth, as if that's a positive.
That sounds a lot like crashing to me.
And it's okay to love roller coasters.
I'm not the biggest fan of them.
But what's the number one thing that people do on roller coasters?
They're screaming.
They're screaming because they're afraid.
Gravity is not something you should be excited about joining.
In fact, gravity is something that you should persevere against.
And time.
First of all, I described it as sliding, rolling with joy downhill.
Also, peace.
People scream on roller coasters because they're fun.
You've never screamed with laughter, screamed with delight, screamed with joy.
OK, I mean, no, I can tell you for a fact.
In fact, when someone at a concert says somebody scream, I don't.
I make sure I'm a contrarian in that way.
I'm not going to scream because you know, I think at this point I'm worrying that you're lacking in joy and your desire toward the drudgery of rock climbing to me.
Makes me feel like what you need, the antidote to this attitude problem, is actually a nice downhill sled.
Very good.
Well, the stakes and the hills are high.
We're going to hear what rock climbing has to offer right after this.
Okay, we're back.
It's Sledding vs. Rock Climbing, and Tim is here to tell us why climbing rocks rocks.
Hey, did I ever tell you about the time I was hired to protect Pansy McButtercups?
You know, the world's premier catfluencer.
Yeah.
Trust me, this is relevant.
So Pansy reviews cat foods.
I'm talking cat beds, the cat's pajamas.
And obviously she has enemies because a bad review from her can tank a business.
So there I was, her official cat guard, as we did a rooftop photo shoot.
When?
Smile, Pansy.
That's it.
Great pose.
Now, prepare to lose all nine lives.
The cameraman was in disguise.
It was really Ollie from Ollie's Stinky Cat Foods.
And he wanted revenge on Pansy for her video calling his food ick in a can.
So he dove to push her off the building.
Take that!
But I stepped in the way and got knocked off instead.
I managed to grab the ledge as I fell and then...
What a cliffhanger, right?
So fun.
Everyone loves a cliffhanger.
Such drama and suspense.
And you know what is literally cliffhanging?
Rock climbing.
It has all of those things.
Fun, drama, suspense, not to mention physical and mental challenges galore.
Rock climbing is a sport where people see a big rock or a cliff and think, yeah, I could climb that.
For beginners, you can try bouldering.
You know, that's where you just climb a large rock or you put out a padded mat, called a crash pad, in case you slip.
Oh yeah, and then there's top rope climbing.
That's where you use a rope to help keep you from falling.
And in both versions, you have a helper who can keep you safe along the way.
Then there are even more advanced ways of rock climbing too, you know, for pros.
Much respect to rock climbers.
Spider-Man?
Like New York's favorite web-slinging hero?
I'm such a fan, oh my goodness.
In the spandex.
And I am in awe of rock climbers.
They do what I do, but without the superpowers.
In fact, I watch rock climbers for tips on toe positioning.
Wow.
But it makes sense.
Rock climbing requires you to use your body and your brain.
Climbing is like solving a puzzle in 3D or doing a maze vertically.
You have to think carefully about each move to get to the top.
And one wrong pinky placement and everything could fall apart.
Yeah, that's why scientists studying the sport say it's a total body workout.
Speaking of workouts, looks like Rhino is up to no good.
Time to get my cardio by stopping him.
See ya!
Bye, Spider-Man.
Oh, where was I?
Yeah, yeah.
Climbing is also a great way to spend time in nature, hiking to find rocks, by rivers or out in the desert.
I guess sledding is nature, too.
I mean, in the winter, where your toes will freeze.
But you can go rock climbing literally any season at a climbing gym.
I live in New York City.
There's not a rock in sight, but I have so many friends here who go rock climbing indoors at the gyms.
Remember how fun it is to climb at a playground?
Imagine that, but way better, because the floor is padded and the walls are covered with colorful rocks to grab onto.
I mean, sure, it's challenging and you will sweat.
But when you make it to the top, you have a sense of accomplishment as big as a boulder.
So, if you like problem solving, stellar workouts, cool gyms and being like Spider-Man, choose rock climbing.
After all, that's how I got the strength to pull myself up off that ledge.
You again?
Didn't you fall?
Nope.
I held on thanks to rock climbing.
Now, Pansy, what do you say we hand this guy over to the authorities and hit the rock climbing gym?
You said it.
Climbing rules.
Okay, a star-studded declaration of greatness there.
Spider-Man and Pansy the cat influencer.
Incredible work.
I can't believe that all happened just now, by the way.
Wow.
So, Magda, what stood out to you about Tim's argument?
Well, I loved the Pansy the cat, the spy and stuff.
I mean, how?
Wait, Spider-Man was there.
Yeah.
And you were falling off a cliff.
Uh-huh.
You know what?
Never mind.
Don't question Spider-Man.
Exactly.
Exactly.
And I am a huge fan of puzzles and mazes, so that really clicked for me.
Excellent.
Excellent.
Well, Brittany, you get 30 seconds to belittle bouldering.
Your time begins now.
I mean, Tim, your argument...
It was entertaining, sure.
And I'll say, I mean, Magda, I love a good puzzle myself.
However, when I want to have fun, I want to have fun.
At the end of the day, the possibility of falling, having to go to an indoor climbing gym and put chalk on my hands only to solve mental problems and use upper body strength.
At the same time, it just doesn't feel worth it to me.
I mean, listen, I like a good hike.
And time.
But bouldering.
I just like to say that Magda, I believe you're from Boulder Colorado, so you should be rooting for one team here.
I just want to flag that that's cheating.
Also, technically, I'm from Longmont, which is a little ways away.
I also want to say that there is a popular movie, a sequel to a movie, right now that has a famous high note.
And I think it has something to do with defying gravity, if I'm not mistaken.
I think that's a very powerful message in this time.
Defying gravity.
Okay, but she had a broomstick.
She was a witch.
She wasn't climbing.
She flew.
Oh, my goodness.
Magda.
This is going to be a very, very difficult decision, but it is time to award some points.
Please give one point to the declaration of greatness you liked best and one point to the rebuttal that won you over.
You get to decide what makes a winning argument.
Did one team's jokes make you laugh harder?
Did another team's sense of adventure really hit home?
Award your points, but don't tell us who they're going to.
Have you made your decision?
I think I have.
Excellent.
Brittany and Tim, how are you two feeling so far?
Confident.
Yeah, I'm feeling pretty good.
Like I said, I'm taking notes with my own points right now and I think that they will align with Magda.
Excellent.
All right.
It's time for a quick break.
Wax your sled or add some chalk to your hands.
And we'll be right back with more Smash Boom Best.
You're listening to State of Debate, home to rage and rhetoric and awe-inspiring argumentation.
A chorus of hellos to all you debate heads.
I'm Taylor Lincoln, and I'm joined by my debate comrade, Todd Douglas.
Hey, Taylor, everything okay?
Yeah, I'm just trying to get these crows to leave so we can focus on today's debate.
I thought I'd try talking to them in their native tongue to see if that would help.
Caw!
Caw!
Oh, let me see if they can understand me.
Caw!
Caw!
I'm sure we can still listen for the logical fallacy.
Caw!
Thanks, bud.
With or without crows, logical fallacies make arguments easy to defeat.
Caw!
Caw!
Caw!
Caw!
Sup, Eris?
Hey, Chet.
I started walking to school a couple times a week.
It's only like half a mile and I get some fresh air.
Plus, it's good exercise.
Hold up.
So you're saying you want to get rid of cars and walk everywhere?
Uh, no.
Actually, I... How would we take road trips?
And what would happen to drive-thrus?
They'd become walk-thrus.
Sorry, Chet, but that kind of argument is going to get you sent to the principal's office.
Yep.
Sounds like Chet found his argument in the middle of a farmer's crop, because that is a straw man fallacy.
That's when you exaggerate what your opponent is saying to make it easier for you to make an argument.
Definitely a debate no-no.
But you know what?
I think it scared off the crows.
I may have also told them that there's a swimming pool filled with bird seed two blocks over.
I can't believe what a genius you are.
We'll see you next time on State of Debate.
Hi, my name is Lucas, and my debate idea is Manowars versus jellyfish.
They're both squishy.
They're both stingy.
They're both hopefully far away when I go to the beach.
We'll check back in at the end of this episode to see which side Lucas thinks should win.
And now, back to sledding versus rock climbing.
Get ready for round two.
It's the... Micro Round.
Tim and Brittany, you will each get three chances to make a micro-argument backed by a cool fact.
Brittany started things off last round, so Tim, you get to go first this time.
Let's hear your first fact.
So sledding isn't the only one with ancient roots.
And one of the very first known serious rock climbs happened way back in 1492 with a guy named Antoine de Ville who was ordered by his king to climb Mount Egwe.
A mountain that was nicknamed Mount Inaccessible, which is a fantastic nickname.
And Antoine used ladders, he used ropes and skills that were normally used to climb into castles.
And not only did he reach the top, he also set the stage for the sport of mountaineering and later rock climbing.
And that's awesome, right?
It's an awesome view.
And what's not to love about that?
You're using castle climbing skills here.
Okay.
Well, why don't we talk about the fact that, you know, I feel like rock climbing gets a lot of shine for being, you know, perhaps tricky arduous difficult, a little too much?
But I want to note that sledding has been an Olympic sport recently.
Mm-hmm.
Cool runnings from Disney, okay?
Listen and, just like sledding is a wild ride full of heart and laughter.
Meanwhile, rock climbing movies are dire and are about cutting off your own arm after getting stuck under a rock.
Okay,
Hard pass.
That's just not for me.
Oh, OK.
So you're saying you know, the best way to get kids to side with you is to say there's a cool movie from when I was a kid, right.
Rock climbing is also an Olympic sport, by the way.
It was inducted into the Summer Games in 2020.
That's recent.
That's new.
That's fresh.
And sure, sledding is also a sport, I guess.
But we all know the cooler, younger sports are where it's at.
Am I right?
I mean, surfing, skateboarding, dancing on TikTok.
I'm sure that'll be Olympic sport at some point.
It's this is cool.
All right.
This is current.
OK, sure.
Cool.
Current.
Or you could go with something that's classic and has everlasting appeal.
I mean, I just want to mention there's not one type of sledding that's part of the Olympic sports.
There are three different kinds, which means it's growing.
It's expanding.
It's ever fresh. want to talk about the consequences of sledding.
If you lose your grip while sledding down a hill, you fall into fluffy snow.
You might tumble downhill cackling all the way.
It adds to the fun.
Now, if you lose your grip while you're rock climbing, that gravity kicks in, okay?
Bruise City a trip to the ER.
You are going to be taking a tumble and you're not going to be laughing all the way.
Mm.
Wow.
Fear, fear.
Yeah, fear is a great way to get people to root for you.
I know this.
But, okay, it seems like you have a question there.
How do climbers get that grip?
It's something called chalk.
You can chalk it all up to chalk, okay?
Climbers will put...
This white chalk powder, aka magnesium carbonate, onto their hands and it helps them absorb sweat and helps them cling onto stones better.
And legend has it that the first person to popularize this was a guy named John Gill, who was not a fish, I promise you.
And in the 1950s, he bought medical-grade chalk used to fight constipation.
Okay?
Chalk, it helps you stay regular and stay on that boulder.
Excuse me?
Okay?
Listen, chalk, chalk, chalk, chalk, chalk.
All this chalk talk.
This is small potatoes.
I want to bring in something big.
I want to end this round on a high note.
Like how about the tip top of the pyramids of Giza High, okay?
Let me tell you something right now.
Remember, how I said earlier, that sledding can be done on sand and was used in ancient Egypt to move huge stones and bricks all around.
Well, sledding helped build the pyramids, okay?
One of the seven wonders of the world.
It's helped transport people across countries and led to the invention of one of the most incredibly fun and popular machines of all time the roller coaster.
All right?
I'm talking big.
I'm talking huge. ancient.
I'm talking wonders of the world.
That's the level that sledding is at.
And still it's something that is beautiful and simple enough that any child can enjoy it as long as well.
They've got something that they can slide around on.
Okay.
Fair enough.
But I just want to say, we're talking pyramids here.
You're talking chalk.
Okay.
I'm talking pyramids.
We're having two different conversations.
But I think it's well documented and known from what I've seen on the History Channel that aliens and UFOs are what built the pyramids.
So I think you need to get your facts straight there.
You know, if you believe that, I think you need to renew your faith in the human race.
That's what I would say.
Oh, my gosh.
Magda, that was an incredible micro round.
The facts were flying fast and furious.
What stood out to you about that round?
Well, I have always wondered how the pyramids were built.
And technically, who said the aliens didn't use sleds?
Hmm.
Interesting.
That's a point for me in my book, at least.
And I like how you both mentioned the Olympics.
They're pretty cool.
And how rock climbing is like a newer sport in that area.
So it's fun.
Hmm.
Interesting.
There are a lot of great facts there from both sides, but Magda, only one team can get a point.
The criteria are totally subjective and totally up to you.
Have you made your decision?
Indeed I have.
Fantastic.
Hold tight.
We'll be right back with more debate after this.
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Thanks.
We're back and it's time for our third round, the super stealthy Sneak Attack.
This is our improvised round where debaters have to respond to a challenge on the spot.
Today's attack is called initial thoughts.
Your mission is to write an acrostic for your side.
That's where the initial letter of each line spells out a word or phrase.
So let's say my side was smile, for example.
I would do S somehow S.
M makes I, it, L, less, E, embarrassing.
Somehow makes it less embarrassing.
So Brittany, your word is sledding.
And Tim, your word is climbing.
They're the same number of letters.
Oh boy, okay.
So you can take a second if you want to write it down.
It can be a word or a phrase or a sentence.
It's entirely up to you.
Brittany, you're up first this time.
Let's hear your acrostic for sledding.
Okay.
Sledding, which for the record is spelled S-L-E-D-D-I-N-G.
Here is my acrostic.
Sledding lets everyone do diversions in noteworthy greatness.
Ooh.
That was delightful.
Thank you.
Well done.
Like the vocab.
Very, very good.
Thank you.
Okay, Tim, it is your turn.
Let's hear your acrostic for climbing.
For climbing, which is spelled C-L-I-M-B-I-N-G.
Cool listeners intuit masterfully the beauty in not climbing.
Going downhill.
There we go.
Climbing is the acrostic.
All right, Magda.
Those were great.
I loved them both.
But only one of them can get a point.
I'm so sorry.
So, Magda, please think about what you liked about those acrostics.
Did one flow better?
Did one make more sense?
Did one make you laugh?
Did one make you think?
Totally subjective.
Totally up to you.
Have you awarded your point?
I have.
It sounds like it was a tough one.
Okay, now it's time for our final round.
The final six.
In this round, each team will have just six words to sum up the glory of their side.
Tim, take us to the top for rock climbing.
Rock climbing helps you defy gravity.
Very, very nice.
Okay, Brittany, slide into victory with your final words for sledding.
Sledding is the most fun thing.
Very good.
Okay, Magda, soak it up.
Think it over and get ready to cast your final point.
Have you made your decision?
I have.
All right.
Tally up those points.
Are you ready to declare one side the smash boom best?
Yep.
All right.
Drum roll, please.
And the winner is sledding.
Again.
Oh, my gosh.
What an honor.
I'm never going to win this game.
Magda, I thought we talked about how our points are aligned.
So, Magda, what was the moment that decided things for you?
Well, I think it was probably in the micro round.
I'm a bit of a classics person and also the pyramids.
True.
I mean, the pyramids, yeah.
It's hard to argue with the pyramids.
Tim, I have to say, I loved your declaration of greatness.
I was actually laughing a lot on my end of things and I was really impressed by your storytelling skills.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you very much.
Brittany, incredible.
And first of all, I never want to be in an actual debate with you on any stage.
You're so great at the comebacks.
And you had some excellent, excellent points there.
Maybe I do need to find more joy in my life and you enlighten me on that subject.
So I value that.
Well, that is it for today's debate battle.
Magda crowned slutty in the Smash Boom best, but what about you?
Head to smashboom.org and tell us who you think won.
This episode was produced by me, Molly Bloom, Shannon Totten, and Mark Sanchez.
We had sound design by Mark Sanchez.
We had engineering help from Christopher Wright and Travis Hagen.
Our announcer is Marley Feuerwerker-Otto, and we want to give a special thanks to Austin Cross and Taylor Kaufman.
Brittany, is there anyone you'd like to give a shout out to today?
I want to shout out my niece.
I love you.
Oh, and how about you, Tim?
Any special shout outs?
I'd like to give a shout out to my dog, Spock.
Not Spock, Spock, like from Star Trek.
Excellent.
And how about you, Magda?
Any special thanks or shout outs?
I'm going to give a shout out to Silver Creek High School in Longmont.
Love you guys.
And also to my parents and my family for driving me here and dealing with me.
And to Joe Ryu, the author of my favorite graphic novel series because her books are just awesome.
Yes, I fit it in.
Excellent.
Before we go, let's check in and see who Lucas thinks should win the squishy sea creatures debate.
I think Manowar should win because I think the poisonous sting of the Manowar can overpower the jellyfish.
If you're between the ages of 13 and 18 and you'd like to be a judge, or if you're any age and you have an idea for a knockdown drag-out debate, head to smashboomorg, slash contact and drop us a line.
And if you're a fan of the show and want to keep it going, head to smartypass.org to subscribe.
We'll be back next week with a new Smash Boom Best episode, Stitch vs. Yoda.
See ya.
Kick rocks.
TTYL.
See ya.
That is how you'll get to be the champ.
