You're tuned in to Roundtable.
My name is Steve Hatherly, and together I'm with Niu Honglin and Yuxin on the show today.
Coming up, China is witnessing a rapid ascent in the popularity of rock climbing.
The trend is fueled by factors like its inclusion in the Olympics.
If you've seen that on TV, it's so fun to watch.
It happens so quickly.
Also, there's a growing middle class focus on health.
There's also the social media sharing aspect of it as well.
All of those are contributing.
And as participation grows among those different diverse groups.
The sports future trajectory points toward competitive development and deeper integration with domestic tourism.
After that, we'll have the happiest place of all the happy places on the Internet.
It's Roundtable's happy place.
Stay tuned for that as well.
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And now.
A growing interest in a sport is taking hold one grip at a time.
Across China.
The vertical world of rock climbing is rapidly transitioning from a niche pursuit to a mainstream passion.
This surge is visible in the proliferation of indoor gyms in urban centers.
There's one actually not so far away from our studios here.
And also the growing popularity of scenic outdoor crags.
But what forces are propelling this ascent?
And what does the future horizon hold for a nation newly enamored with reaching new heights?
I squeezed as many puns into those five sentences as I could.
It's been on my list of things to do for a really, really, really long time.
And maybe our chat today will inspire me to finally take that step or that step.
Grip, I guess I should say.
It's hot on social media now, right?
People are posting their taped up fingers and their blistered thumbs.
They're posting them online.
Why are they doing that?
I mean, have you ever tried this?
Because Steve never tried it.
No.
So, yeah.
And I've seen some of the posts on that.
And I actually asked some of my friends that are actually practicing rock climbing and And they said yeah, it's actually true.
A lot of people are posting these kind of things online and that is so legit that they would like to do that, and one thing is that it is kind of a symbol of their effort and also progress and a social badge when they are posting that little bloody dots on their hands.
It's a sign of of their efforts because yeah, i have a friend who was.
He wasn't a pro rock climber or anything like that, but it was his main hobby.
His hands were a mess.
He was not going to be getting any hand modeling contracts.
Well, maybe for a rock climbing magazine.
But yeah, just his fingertips were all kind of... You know how the skin...
Yeah, it gets rough, right?
If you play golf, the skin on certain parts of your hand will get a little... Also, guitar.
Guitar, too, right?
You'll get those calluses there.
That's a big thing for the hands of rock climbers.
Yeah, so for climbers it's kind of a proof that they've leveled up, just like showing off your muscle at the gym.
Yeah.
So that's kind of a mark of their identity or their professionalism or their time they spent on the wall.
Yeah.
So how popular is this actually becoming here in the country?
It is growing so, so fast.
And one report from 2023 shows that, under the direction of the Chinese Mountaineering Association.
This report showed that new climbers in China grew by more than 22 year on year.
Those would be the outdoor climbers.
But there's so many more new indoor climbing places, too.
Yes, there are.
And not only are people climbing indoor areas, they are also showcasing different types of short videos on top of the horrible hands.
I've seen one.
Well, I've seen several.
And that is...
That is, after or after watching those videos, I kind of started to understand, to get to the logic behind it.
We are already looking at the number of indoor climbing gyms keep rising in 2025 and at 20.
Well in 2023.
New climbers in China grew over 22 year on year, showing strong adoption among urban young, youth and fitness-minded adults.
And I get it.
I see the sports.
I see how people try to conquer that not very tall wall.
And after watching several videos, I realize... Oh, you see it as not very tall when you're there.
Stand at the bottom of that, yeah.
And also, it's...
It's the design of the rocks on the wall, because for those who have never experienced it or watched any of the videos, especially the videos with explanation, narration alongside, I didn't used to understand the charm of this game.
I mean there are rocks on the wall.
You use your hands and feet to step on the rocks.
You climb to the top of the wall.
Sounds too easy.
Too easy.
And then I realized it's much more than that.
The rocks are on different places.
And if you do not carefully plan your route, you may end up in a situation where you have no rock to reach.
It's a physical puzzle.
It definitely is.
And also even the rocks that you are standing or grabbing on and the one that you have your eye on.
Look so close.
Still, it has a lot to do with the angle of where to maneuver, the maneuver you need to make with your body and whether or not it's the kind of direction that your muscles can bend to.
I was just about to say, then it's up to your body to be able to deliver you to that location that you have identified.
It's much, much more complicated and interesting.
Absolutely.
It's gotten so hot here in China.
That 2023 report, I think that you mentioned, pointed out that China had 636 commercial climbing gyms.
That was an increase from 31% from the year before.
But maybe even more interestingly, it surpassed the United States at 622 for the first time, showing that the popularity of the sport continues to grow here in China.
In Shanghai especially, I think we can say.
This is what they say.
You can find over a dozen gyms within just a five kilometer radius in Shanghai.
And Beijing is not far behind that in terms of numbers.
But then you've got emerging places, emerging cities like Hangzhou.
You've got Kunming.
You've got Changsha.
Those are all in different parts of the country. and even down the street i said we've got one here too and when i said that i saw nyohonglin look at yushun like really it's only two subway stops away it's it's quite close and it is spreading so much and you can see not only into these gyms they are also setting establishment in some shopping malls shopping centers so that you can reach it so easily and also parents can bring their children to these establishments to maybe getting their children trained or having a first-hand experience of these kind of activities because they can be just so um they can be very healthy for your like full body exercise yeah i mean your your biceps your triceps your shoulders your core your it's basically a whole body workout We've already mentioned that from the climber's point of view, it's fun, it's with a lot of strategy, and like Steve said, it's a body or training your body so that it can deliver you to places.
But from a shop owner's perspective, it's also well.
Of course you need to have the knowledge, you need to have the equipment, you need to have a good trainer to protect your client from hurting themselves.
That being said, you don't need a huge space to start an indoor climbing facility.
You need a wall.
You need a wall.
Big vertical space.
Yes, but the idea is that starting a shop... like that is not that challenging financially.
Yeah.
And also with expanding market like this here in China, it's a good business opportunity.
Yeah.
The startup costs might not be... The overhead might not be that much because...
You just decorate the wall with that.
I have no idea.
But at the same time, you do tend to use a larger space.
Indoor climbing spaces tend to be on the bigger side as far as I know.
So I'm thinking monthly rent might be on the higher side.
It also still depends, because I've seen some of those indoor climbing shops, that designated for young kids so that it's in the center of the hall of a shopping mall, which means it's not the kind of space that is usually rent out for other shops, which I think would be a better choice.
True.
We've talked about the indoor spots so far, but there are plenty of outdoor climbing sites as well.
I've seen so many videos that people go to that first of all water area and then there are some real rocks that they can climb.
And that feeling of conquering that one spot is really, I think, satisfying when they're actually doing this.
So an article from 36KR is also showing that China has over 13000 documented routes of these rock outdoor climbing sites and hot spots, including yangshuo in guangxi, geotu in guizhou and the sand stone cliffs of yunnan, mostly in, i think, southern part of china.
I read, i read an article i was actually searching for information on oh, how popular is rock climbing around the world, But I found an article from a magazine that talked about two expats that live here in Yunnan.
And they are the real deal rock climbers.
Indoor climbing and outdoor climbing, they are two totally different animals.
And I don't understand the psychology of the outdoor climbers who are really extreme about it.
Risking their lives?
To me, it looks like a death wish.
To them, it's an adrenaline rush and so much more.
I don't know what that much more is.
They could explain it, I'm sure.
But I was looking at the pictures in the magazine from Yunnan.
Oh, my goodness.
Just gorgeous.
Just absolutely stunning.
And the people who were being interviewed said it's one of the best places they've ever found in the world to go rock climbing, and that sentiment also triggers the supporting industries to grow quite vast, uh drastically.
In 2014, china's climbing gear market is valued at 715 million us dollars and is expected to grow at a 55 percent.
More and more people are purchasing their go train themselves.
They show their blistered hands on the internet.
And I also get it for many people.
It's the concentration.
It's the mindful exercise.
It's the pressure that they cannot think of their work.
They cannot think of the problems in life.
They can only think about the wall in front of them or the the rock in front of them.
This is a great workout too.
This keeps your heart rate up, the same as running an 8 to 11 minute mile.
So 155 pound climber, that's about what 70 kilogram person maybe a little less than that.
They'll burn about 600 calories per hour, and i look that up for context.
What else is you know what other exercises relative there?
Golf is only 281 calories per hour.
Kayaking is 352.
Judo or karate is 704.
So it's the equivalent of doing judo or karate or some sort of extreme martial art for an hour.
And the thing is that it's not only physical, you know, it's also about your mental strength.
The sport is an mental as it is physical, and it is what it said on the internet.
Climbers must plan moves and little routes, coordinate balance and then problem solve constantly.
So many describe it as 20 physical and 80 mental, because finding efficient routes requires sharp decision-making and Yeah, and you are lifting your own bodies most of the times, which means for female and male, you can do the sports together, can play together.
You do not have to worry about female having to train much longer than male to be at the same level.
Yeah.
Please be careful.
Of course.
Don't listen to Roundtable today and go.
Oh okay, I'm headed to Yunnan this weekend to climb the sheer cliffs of the sandstone faces.
No, be careful.
Go and get some training first, right?
But that's the cool thing about it.
This is what I was told by my friend.
I've always avoided it because I don't want to be the worst at something in the room.
Do you know what I mean?
I don't want to walk in the room and be the worst person at something.
But of course, everybody has to start somewhere.
And that's the wonderful thing he said is that there are beginner levels for these indoor places.
There are your intermediate levels and then your expert levels.
And you go at your own place and there are teachers there that can help you out.
And it's nice.
It's a safe environment.
It's a great body workout.
And that's why I said in the beginning, it's definitely on my list of things to do.
What about for you, Yonglin?
Are you convinced now?
Yes, I would very much like to try it.
And I believe, with the market growing bigger and bigger, the facilities, the training, the type of equipment I can buy will only get better and better.
So it's a good time to start.
Two subway stops from here.
Yes.
That's seven minutes.
Not too far.
You're listening to Roundtable.
Don't go anywhere.
We've got Happy Place on the way.
Delivery.
Delivery delivery, delivery.
What is it?
Happiness from round table time for happy place and yushin, what do you have for us today?
You saw a documentary you really enjoy.
Yeah, this is actually a film, and in the form of a documentary, like um way.
So this is a live action space documentary film.
It's called or directly translated into blue planet outside the window.
And English name is Shenzhou 13.
So actually, the title reflects both the poetic and technical.
I explained the Chinese and then the English release.
Title Shenzhou 13 refers to the actual Chinese crewed spacecraft that successfully carried out its mission in 2021.
So they actually brought some 8K ultra high-definition cameras into the space in the spaceship and then take the footages by three astronauts Zhai Zhigang, Wang Yaping and Ye Guangfu.
Very cool.
Yeah, very cool.
And one special thing that I would like to mention is that All of the scenes they took in the spacecraft they're all like white in the cabinet right.
And everybody's in that like weightless environment.
They're drinking, eating, even cutting their hair in there.
So very sci-fi.
But when you're realizing it, they're all took from these astronauts.
They're real scenes.
They're not sci-fi at all.
They're real.
So that is the point I realized, wow, it is the reality we're living.
Yes.
And the reason that they do the film not only to give people regular people like us, who have never lived in a space station the real, authentic feeling of how it's like.
It's also to experiment whether or not it's possible for space immigration in the future.
What it's like to live there.
And Yusheng mentioned Wang Yaping.
She is the second Chinese female taekwondo artist who went to space station and he she's also the first one that conducted a space walk of first a female Tyconaut.
And it's essential to have both male and female living in the space station, because physically we're different.
We might face different challenges.
I want to see how your body reacts.
Exactly.
And it's, Well, I haven't watched the movie yet, but I've already seen some reviews of the movie.
Many, many people took their kids, especially the kids who are really interested in aerospace technology and how it's like.
And many of them have said that, wow, the scene, the way they live is really impressive.
I want to watch. this is what parents like to hear.
I want to study hard and in the future be a rocket science or be an astronaut, a taikonaut, so that I can have the experience.
And it's also quite touching to know that for the six months of her long voyage in the space, her five-year-old daughter was able to communicate with Meng Yaping, the female taikonaut.
And they Well.
At the very beginning, when she was stepping into the aircraft, the little girl was shouting and blessing her mom.
And how old is the child?
Five, five years old.
So she wasn't crying like, no, mommy, don't go.
She was cheering cheering, and I'm pretty sure there are tears, but in different form.
That's very cool, and one thing that she told her daughter was that dreams are like stars and I will bring you one back.
It's very sweet because that's one of her promises to her girl.
Yeah, brought back a, bring back a star for her.
That's got to be a lot of pressure on your kid.
Yeah sorry, i was looking at this.
Mommy's an astronaut.
I mean, it's cool when you're five, but what about when you're 16 and you're getting ready for the gaokao?
You know what i mean?
That's probably a little bit like spoiler alert um, but if you want to know, i will say it.
Uh, to be so, she said that i promised that i will bring a star For you and I am the star.
Oh, you have more pressure.
But still.
I thought it could be more poetic and heartwarming.
It is kind of poetic, but also because Steve mentioned that.
And I get how come it can't be a really happy, happy place.
It's one of a kind thing.
We've never had the chance to watch a movie like that before, shot by real astronaut.
And people are also saying things like when i see them conducting spacewalk, i am really worried about the rope on there.
Maybe we were worrying about yes, it's getting loose.
We know it didn't happen, but still the anxiety and the excitement is there.
Do you think you could do it, yushin?
Do you think you could go on a spacewalk?
I don't think my body's capable of doing that.
But yeah, I wish.
We're not even ready for indoor rock climbing.
How are we going to go on a spacewalk?
Goodness me.
I want to check out that documentary.
Sounds like a wonderful film.
All right, we're going to have to leave it there for Roundtable 4 this afternoon.
Thank you so much for sharing your time with us today.
For Nyo Hong Lin and Yu Shun, I am Steve.
Enjoy your time, and we'll see you next time.
