Against these common challenges and background, I think more than ever we need to have this dialogue, we need to have more of the cooperation among the South -South nations and also among South and North nations.
From the perspective of the swift adherence and receptiveness of countries and organizations to join the global alliance against hunger and poverty, I can say that the political will is strong for the program to succeed.
For the first time you had the African Union participating as a full member of the G20 and I think for Africa this is significant that we now have the African Union rightfully represented and at least can bring to the table issues pertaining to the African continent together with South Africa.
The Chat Lounge The Chat Lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way.
Welcome to The Chat Lounge, I'm Xu Yawen.
Joining me to discuss the G20 summit in Brazil are Professor Chu Zhang, a fellow of the Belt and Road Research Center at Mingzhu University of China, Yasmin Scalley, an independent journalist from Brazil specializing in international relations and Professor Anil Sokhlo, South African High Commissioner
to India, Bangladesh and Nepal, welcome to The Chat.
Leaders of the G20 have gathered in Rio de Janeiro this week to address global challenges and promote inclusive growth.
They have issued a declaration to address geopolitical, socio -economic and climate challenges and reaffirmed their commitment to multilateralism and support for reforming the global governance system.
Chinese President Xi Jinping attended a meeting and called for building a just world of common development and outlined China's actions for global development.
As the host of the G20, Brazilian President Lula da Silva has launched the Global Alliance Against Hunger and Poverty with 148 founding members, including 82 countries, the African Union, the EU and key international organizations.
Professor Chu, how about we start from you?
So we know leaders of the G20 have issued a joint declaration addressing hunger, poverty, climate challenges and global governance.
Given the rising global geopolitical tensions we have seen today, what's your assessment of this year's G20?
How important is it as the platform to enhance dialogue and action?
Well, I think we're hitting a very critical moment, a very important era of juncture this year because very huge uncertainty are hitting the whole globe scenario and we're facing a lot of problems together as a whole, as a human community with a shared fate.
Like we just mentioned, a very important message has been sent over the declaration, try to address the hunger, poverty and climate changes, because we're seeing that the ocean temperatures are rising more than 2 degrees celsius already, which should be the target lower than 2 degrees by 2030.
But now we have already over achieved, quote unquote, that kind of record.
And also talking about hunger and poverty is the same thing.
And even though we have already far beyond the MDG period of time and now we're after the SDG set up by UN, but many of the emerging market are still behind this target, especially the least developed nations.
So I think that's the reason why China and many of the responsible emerging countries are trying to solve this problem.
Here where we are is that the G20 is more split than ever on the spectrum.
On one hand is a G7.
G7 right now says to be a very small and isolated little club of themselves, and pay attention to the top nation's needs and the situation.
And on the other end of the spectrum is the South nation, the global South nations, they try to help each other so they have the BRICS platform, et cetera.
But still we need a wide spectrum of corporations like the platform, the APAC and G20.
That's the reason why we need to stay in this club and we need to talk to each other.
But the problem is that we lack of leadership, especially this year in America, everybody knows that they change the leadership and that next leadership probably are not very keen to solve the other nations problem, especially not even the G20, not even the whole world, not even the G7, they only care about the G1.
So they don't want to provide any leadership and responsibility in here.
And also, talking about the global South nations, we have some other nations having some domestic troubles or entangled with international issues.
So it looks like China is one of the few countries who are willing to be a responsible player and also are capable of being a responsible player, providing the leadership here this year.
So that's very important.
I think back in 2017, 2015, President Xi Jinping has already announced that China would like to form alliance against hunger under the global poverty alleviation framework.
And I was very honored to be part of that research members during the framework.
And we're waiting to see that.
But of course, this year, very luckily, I think Brazil take the leadership, pioneered this endeavor and issued this hunger and poverty framework.
And also, climate change is what China has paid attention to for a very long time.
So I think against this common challenges and background, I think more than ever, we need to have this dialogue.
We need to have more of the cooperation among the South -South nations, and also among South and North nations.
So this is where we are in the bigger picture.
Professor Soklow, what do you see as the key achievements of the G20 real summit?
I mean, in the context of uncertainty and escalating regional conflicts, what significance does G20 leaders declaration hold for developing countries, especially for South Africa and other African nations?
Thank you. I think the fact that you could have a substantial leaders declaration out of the real summit is a positive development, especially in this age of uncertainty and an increasingly divided global community that we live in.
So the G20 is an important platform that provides an avenue for the global South and the global North, the leading nations of the world from both sides of the North and South to engage on critical issues.
It's unfortunate because the United Nations system is semi -paralyzed for reasons we are all aware of.
And therefore, the G20 takes on added significance where some of the key issues that cannot be deliberated effectively within the U .N.
system are being adequately addressed.
And I think this is seen in the comprehensive number of issues that have been addressed from issues of poverty and hunger alleviation, the challenges around climate change, the challenges around the economic issues and the financial issues that we are jointly addressing.
And of course, issues pertaining to sustainable development, the energy transmission challenges that we have, especially countries of the global South.
The other important point is that for the first time you had the African Union participating as a full member of the G20.
And I think for Africa, this is significant that we now have the African Union rightfully represented and at least can bring to the table issues pertaining to the African continent together with South Africa.
I think for the global South, it was important that the issues of development is brought to the center of the G20 agenda.
It's unfortunate that issues of development have been marginalized within the international agenda in recent times.
But I think over the past few summers, starting from Indonesia, that we have seen issues pertaining to the global South, especially on the development is back at the center.
And I think Brazil must be congratulated for continuing what was started under Indonesia, India and now under Brazil's presidency.
And we hopefully, South Africa, we will also take forward issues that pertain to the global South, to the African continent and provide a platform for these to be mainstreamed going forward.
Yasmin, as the host nation of this year's G20 summit, Brazilian President Lula launched the Global Alliance Against Hunger and Poverty aiming to eradicate world hunger by 2030.
And he said here, I quote, we're living alongside 733 million people who are still facing undernourishment.
It is as if the populations of Brazil, Mexico, Germany, the United Kingdom, South Africa and Canada combined were going hungry.
He also said in a world that produces almost six billion tons of food per year.
This is unacceptable.
So as the initiative moves forward, how strong is the political will of nations to make this happen?
Yes, I think that from the perspective of the swift adherence and receptiveness of countries and organizations to join the Global Alliance Against Hunger and Poverty, I can say that the political view is strong for the program to succeed.
The proposal has been widely accepted by 82 countries and 66 organizations with some of these actors already outlined the contributions they will make.
However, as we know, like unfortunately, hunger is not any new issue in the world.
And the persistence of this grave problem shows that despite good intentions, what is lacking is exactly the political will to eradicate hunger entirely.
As President Lula stated on his speech at G20, and I quote, hunger and poverty are not the result of scarcity or natural phenomena.
They are the product of political decisions that perpetuate the exclusion of a large part of humanity.
Like, for instance, when we look right now at Sudan, where over 26 million people are facing acute hunger, it is alarming to witness the profound inequality in access to food in this critical and long term case.
And like, unfortunately, also, Sudan is just one of many hunger hot spots worldwide.
So in the light of this, the international community must truly address this deeply concerning issue once and for all.
But I do believe that this global alliance lauded by Brazil at the G20 has shaken the global awareness on this matter of and has encouraged nature nations to demonstrate real political will to tackle it.
Because after all, I believe that finally we are more and more aware of the fact that the true global development depends on shared prosperity.
So I do believe that this alliance can make, can renew this feeling that we all should have food in the world.
Professor Zhu, Yasmin she has just mentioned a case in Sudan where people are still suffering from hunger.
Actually, according to a recent report released by the World Bank, it says that the US goal of ending extreme poverty by 2030 is out of reach.
So under this context, what's the significance of launching this initiative and how urgent is the need for this initiative to address the crisis of hunger and poverty?
Well, yes, I think Yasmin just mentioned a very important message in Sudan and in many other places all over the world.
And it looks like isolated cases, but actually they're very closely bonded to each other.
Not only in Sudan, we've been seeing Somalia and Eritrea and also impartial places in the South Africa regions and also in Latin America, the similar situation happening, as well as in the South Asians and Bangladesh, in India, you know, somewhere a situation can get worse.
And also the climate change are contributing to this problem.
We've been looking at the small island countries so recently have been suffering a lot from the natural disasters and clearly very related, you know, hunger issues or the lack of the harvest.
So I think this can be a prevailing problem for many emerging markets, especially for the list of other nations.
We have about seven billion people around the world.
Right now, half of the populations are not quite at the very satisfactory foot security situation.
And among them, I think there are one billion population on the verge of having the potential hunger or even hunger to die kind of the risk.
So this is a major problem we need to face as a whole human being.
And I think China has provided a very good, you know, just 20 years ago when I just participated in the poverty alleviation endeavor in China, we have about four hundred million people still living in a not very satisfactory living standard.
About one hundred million of them actually are living in absolute and extreme poverty.
And many of them are still having the food security issues, hunger, you know, without enough clothes, shelter, or was a problem back at that time.
But I think China has found its own way of solving this kind of a problem by education, by technology, dissemination, by government funding, by private sectors, participation and engagement.
And we use the whole package of policy compost and try our best to do so.
And we've been seeing major breakthrough has already been made by 2020, when China at that year eradicated absolute poverty issue.
And we you know, from the root, we cut it out the hunger issue.
So right now, even though China is still not a rich country, but I'm very confident to say in China, hunger, especially the lethal kind of the hunger, is not a problem anymore.
That is a great achievement of being achieved over the past four thousand years.
And it was in such a large scale economy was a huge population.
And I think a very few nations can do that across the whole nation wide.
So I think all this experience can be shared and in a contribute to the world a common target of hunger, of poverty and a climate change.
And we're doing so because personally, I've been participating in many international corporations in this regard.
The past five years, we've been having the programs in Myanmar, in Indonesia, in Pakistan and Laos and many countries that we have this kind of agriculture center.
So we have education centers, we have public funding centers to help those places to and how to raise up the yieldings for plantations.
How do you better use the human resources, how to use fertilizer, how to build better dams to fight against the climate change and the flood.
So this actually are helping local people and we've been seeing people smile and putting back their children to school because they don't need that much of the human resources at the farmland.
And everything are getting better and better.
And now we've been trying to set up a network to help the Little Island countries fight against the climate change and a related hunger issue.
So these are coming more and more.
We're going to see more things are happening.
And I'm very confident China, Brazil, South Africa, Russia or other race countries are well bond together closely to form this network of knowledge and know how to help those more countries.
The chat lounge. The chat lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way.
Professor Sukla, Professor Chu, he just talked about the methods that China, Chinese government adopted in order to lift its people out of extreme poverty.
So which aspects of China's policy or poverty alleviation methods do you think maybe could inspire countries in Africa to also achieve development and eliminate poverty?
And also, President Xi, he said at the summit, if China can make it, other developing countries can also make it, too.
Do you think that will be the case in Africa?
That is absolutely possible.
But I think the lesson that we draw from China's experience is China puts its people first.
It invested in its greater access and that's its people.
And I think that's what we need to do in Africa is to invest in our people, firstly, to ensure that we have proper health care available for our people, proper education available to our people.
We are provided with the right skills and the right education.
They are healthy and that we provide decent jobs for people.
Now, that can only happen if Africa also addresses these economic challenges and that can be done in tandem with the global community.
When China was president of the G20, one of your key priorities was industrialization in Africa, because China recognized industrialization is a key to Africa's development.
Africa is one of the richest continents in terms of resource region.
It is one of the richest continents in terms of its human capacity.
We have the youngest demographic in the world.
But all of this is not translating into tangibles to lift Africa out of its current dire situation.
And I think this is where we can draw lessons from China investing first and putting people first.
Because if you resource and make your people capable and thereafter address the challenges around the economy, be it infrastructure, be it providing, addressing issues of industrialization, addressing issues of new technologies that provide an opportunity to foster development.
I think all of these can be key catalysts in the African continent.
And that is why partnerships like focus that we have and the recent focus summit was a great success.
These are the types of partnerships that Africa requires that we have with China under focus and with other parts of the world that bring tangible benefits through programs and not just financial resources, but addressing the critical challenges that we face and sharing technology with us, sharing experience
with us, helping us to modernize our agriculture.
Africa is home to 60 percent of the global arable land, but we are next put in parking continent.
So these are practical things that we need to address.
Yasmin, Brazilian President Lula said hunger is the product of political decisions.
What do you make of his remarks?
How can developing countries under the framework of G20 and other initiatives that over other panelists have just mentioned create a stronger voice to prioritize policies and party and hunger reduction for developing countries?
Yeah, naturally, the G20 already plays a strategic role in shaping global policies due to economics and political weight of its members.
But I believe that to a strength more equitable global policy, some measures could be adopted and some of them were extensively discussed during the Rio de Janeiro summit.
One approach could involve uniting the group around reforming the global trade system like developed countries within the group could reach agreements with developing countries to reduce agriculture subsets that distorts global markets and harm produces in emerging countries, for example.
At the same time, I believe that the members of G20 could prioritize innovation and technology transfer among its members, creating platform to facilitate the transfer of technology and capacity building in low income countries in other front.
And this was quite discussed that in the G20 summit now these nations could advocate for a more active global governance structure by reforming international institutions in order to provide greater representation for developing countries.
These are just a few of the numerous initiatives the group could work on together.
Like I have faith that if concrete actions are combined, the multilateral cooperation, strength and political commitment upheld, the G20 could really become like a catalyst for a significant global transformation.
Professor Chu, during the summit, President Xi Jinping outlined China's aid actions for global development, and it includes pursuing high quality Belt and Road cooperation, implementing the global development initiative and support for international cooperation on poverty reduction and food security.
You touched upon this previously, but what are your key takeaways from these actions?
What new elements did you find from President Xi's proposal?
And also how do they align with the G20's agenda?
Well, I think President Xi Jinping has made a very detailed statement about how we can solve this problem together as one community.
From China's perspective, I think we have a planning of short -term and long -term.
A midterm is that we try to lower the tariff for all the least developing nations, unilaterally, 100%, no matter how much of the tariff you charge, Chinese products and trade.
But we will give you favorable conditions, also zero tariff, which will lower the burden of the local countries when they can sell more of the product into a huge market like China, who will definitely earn more of the money to raise up the well -being and living standard of local people.
And meanwhile, I think we tried to write off many of the debt they owned, tried to lower their burden.
So a lot of you are sitting in debt truck.
I think this lie can just dissolve by itself, because China always tried to help those least developed nations to face the problems.
Even at the most critical moment, China tried to take over this burden by itself.
I think this is a very responsible and a general manner and gesture, and indeed will help those least developed nations so they can have more of a foreign exchange to buy food.
A lot of least developed nations, they still need to use US dollar or other international money to buy food from the international market, especially some island nations.
They do not have enough farmland, so they cannot grow enough domestically, because you have to buy food from international market.
For example, Sri Lanka.
And I think in the midterm or long term, what China will do is what I mentioned, a knowledge center, technology center, training centers to help them to nurture talents, young people, technicians who can properly use a modern agriculture technology to use fertilizer, to have better seeding technologies,
to have a higher harvest per unit volume that we have already done.
And we have seen very successful cases in Africa, in ASEAN nations, in South Asia.
So that can help them in the very midterm.
Usually by five years training, every turn of the program, we will see very talented young people, very smart, local technicians that is going to rise up, and they use modern farming tools, modern farming technologies, they can always double, even triple the yielding of the previous per unit farmland.
And in the long run, I think what we will do is technology cooperation, and the more of infrastructure cooperation, because when China tried to solve its own poverty issues, we call that the connectivity is the key, what does that even mean?
You have the electricity, you have the running water, you have the internet, you have the road, and all these connectivities can actually help those poor farmers, not only to rise up their per unit harvest, but also to get them, you know, more of the access into the knowledge, information markets, and etc,
and income, ultimately.
So this is actually very important.
China has planned with its partners, together with President Lula, with the leaders of South Africa, we promised to provide more of these infrastructures to them in the longer run, with more of the investment.
So I think we're gonna, from the root cut out of this poverty issue, and provide them potential to stand up on their own feet, like we always said, given them fish, it's not good enough.
But teach them how to fish, it's much, much better.
Professor Suk -Lao, what's your take on Professor Chu's remarks?
How do you view China's aid actions to support global development, particularly its focus on supporting development in Africa?
Well, I fully agree.
And, you know, China has been a trusted friend of Africa for a substantial period of time.
It is nothing new. FOCAT was launched way back in 2000.
And FOCAT has become a model paradigm of South Park Corporation, where China has used its own experience in working with Africa to address Africa's challenges across the board.
And the eight points mentioned by President Chu also resonates with precisely the ten points that we raised during FOCAT in terms of assisting Africa and working in partnership with Africa.
And I think also the major global initiatives that President Chu has launched in recent times, from the Belt and Road initiative, to the global security initiative, the global civilization initiative and the global development initiative.
These are all interrelated.
They are not compartmentalized as separate screens in addressing the global challenges.
And I think what comes out very clearly is the call that came up during the G20, that we are one global community.
And that is why way back in 2013, President Chu spoke about building a community of shared future for humanity.
And this is precisely what we see being echoed again in the G20 Declaration Farm Rio, that we have to work in tandem with each other to address global problems collectively.
We can't do it in isolation of each other.
We should be pertaining to the global south, the global north.
They are common challenges of humanity as a whole.
And I believe that the challenges that we face in Africa can only be addressed as a collective, because the Africans, we ourselves, have put a paradigm on the table in terms of Agenda 2063, and we have invited our global partners to work with us in addressing these challenges collectively with Africa.
And that is why we believe partnership, cooperation, and collaboration is the only way forward that the human community can move in a positive direction.
The stratification and division that we are seeing in current times, and I think President Chu has spoken repeatedly that we don't want hegemonic tendencies to continue in this world.
We want to see a global community where we all respect each other and work in tandem with each other.
And I think that is what we'd like to see in terms of Africa working in partnership with the global community.
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Welcome back. Let's continue our discussion.
Yasmin, from Brazil's perspective, what's your assessment of this aid actions proposed by President Xi Jinping to support the development of the global south, especially when it comes to supporting countries through methods such as digital economy, such as new energy cooperation.
And also, could you give us some examples of how China and Brazil cooperate in these fields to help fight poverty and promote development?
Sure. I am convinced that China's actions to support global progress, especially on the global south, align closely with the immediate and long term needs of these developing nations, because I see this in my own country.
Like access to digital tools, as you mentioned, can accelerate economic inclusion, education, while green development helps address climate change.
In Brazil, China has been one of Brazil's biggest partners in achieving the sustainability goals set by President Lula, and particularly with technology for wind power and solar panels.
So this cooperation helped Brazil record the second large annual increase in wind and solar power generation in the world in the last year, according to data from the Ember Think Tank.
Just yesterday, on November 20, during President Xi Jinping visits to Brazil, the Brazilian Chinese government also signed 37 new agreements, including those related to connectivity and the digital economy.
According to Brazil's Minister of Communications, the agreement aimed to develop digital infrastructure, foster technological innovation, and strengthen Brazil's digital industry, with the expectation of enhanced public policies.
So I believe it is evident that China's actions offer good potential to collaborate with the global south countries and achieve their goals in not only the mentioned areas, but also in many others.
Because when I look to Brazil, I see how much infrastructure we need, and how much this cooperation helps to build this infrastructure in a quicker way.
And in cooperation that both countries they win.
So this is quite important for us, because usually we negotiate in a way that there is some jeopardize for one of the players.
And with China, it's not like this, we are just improve our future and in many areas.
Professor Chu, so we have noticed that the call for reform in international institutions and global governance was prominent at the real summit.
Why was that? What changes do you think are needed to ensure these institutions better represent the developing countries, the global south?
Well, I think the most important thing is that you have to make sure that we will have enough of representative physically in all kinds of institutes.
And I do believe the south destination, the global south, has enough talent, has enough brain power, and why is it not enough to form a board, to form an organization fully represent our own interests and where we are going.
And secondly is that a working mechanism needs to be built on transparent mutual respect and fairness and those kinds of ground bases to make sure that we have a rule based negotiation based discussion based and a very transparent system that we have.
And certainly we will have a, you know, benefit sharing and state sharing kind of a mechanism to make sure everybody can prove their wisdom, everybody can prove their strength into the courses that we are after together.
And meanwhile, we're going to share the benefit together according to how much we just to put it in.
But of course, we're going to have some favorable beneficiaries, for example, the least developed donations.
We're going to make them the largest beneficiaries about our common effort.
And by that, we're going to have a exemplary, you know, models and more of the cases to build on more of the stories and more of experiences and know -how to inspire more of the after commerce.
And then all these spell over effect, well, inspire and encourage more of these emerging markets, developing nations to join in this network, to share our own story, to share our own experience, to share our own, you know, resources.
I'll give you one very interesting example.
There is a nation, I think it's a South and North cooperation kind of model.
We'll go to one of the least developed nations and we'll try to help them.
But those four to actually be dominated by the North countries.
Well, I have no problem with North countries.
But I think they have many professors, many expert researchers speaking from the most privileged universities, research institutes, and their teaching of the LDC.
What would you do after three years and millions of dollars spending and they get one result?
Okay, these village probably need a role because even though we give them cars, I mean, it ends, but still, it takes them three days to get into the nearest market to sell their food and the crops.
And that is the result they get.
And in China, we have experienced that because we used to be poor.
And we know what that means to be poor and how can we solve these problems from a lack of resources, you know, standing ground.
So we have the kind of so -called poor people's thinking mind.
And we understand how we can switch and switch the role of changes to the situation by walking in other people's shoes.
So I think this is very important.
So our wisdom, our representative and our resources together to form our network that can make sure those institutes can have a well -functioning position.
Professor Suclo, Africa's representation in global governance remains limited.
But the good news, as you previously mentioned, is that the African Union joining the G20 as a permanent member last year.
So what changes do you see or expect to see in the future to enlarge the continent's voice in shaping global economic and political decisions?
Well, I think the positive dimension of the leader summit's memorial is the strong language pertaining to the reform of the global governance institutions.
I think that's a very positive development, especially the core for action by the G20 on global governance reform.
And I think that has to constantly be on the mainstream of the G20 agenda, because we, as is contained in the declaration, the current global literature does not reflect the reality of the 21st century, as the secretary general himself has repeatedly stated, even at last year's big summit in Johannesburg.
The current makeup of the United Nations system, including the Security Council, is archaic, outdated, and it's a paralyzed system.
I think it is important that there must be a global governance architecture, including not just the United Nations system, but the Bretton Woods institution, as well as our financial economic institutions and other global multilateral institutions.
There are still very locked sides in terms of representation and in terms of weightage and in terms of decision making that favors one part of the world.
For Africa, we have been repeatedly stating that it's a great injustice that 1 .4 billion people, 54 sovereign nations, have no representation on the Security Council, and we have repeatedly been calling for this to be addressed.
Likewise, Latin America is in the same situation.
So I think after almost 80 years since the founding of the United Nations system, it's long overdue that this structure is reformed and transformed to reflect the new reality of the world today.
And it's unfortunate that the intergovernmental negotiations in New York have basically made no progress in almost two decades since it has been convened.
And again, this shows that there is no serious appetite to comprehensively address and create a more equitable global architecture where countries of the global south are equally represented and also have an equal voice and an equal say on issues of global matter.
It can't be left into the hands of a few select nations.
I think this is what we have been saying as Africa, and I think the global south as a collective have been calling for the reform of the current global architecture.
And one of the important things, and I think this is where the bricks and countries of the global south have been very strong, is that we need to protect the centrality of multilateralism.
Increasing use of unilateral measures by certain countries undermines the United Nations chapter, the purpose and principles of the chapter, undermines respect for international law.
And these are issues that we must safeguard and strengthen going forward.
So for Africa, comprehensive reform of the multilateral architecture is something that we have been repeatedly calling for, and we are hoping that there will be some movement going forward.
Yasmin, Professor Soklo, he mentioned bricks.
Actually today, our panelists represent China, Brazil, and South Africa, which are nations that bricks mechanism.
Their cooperation within the blog has been pivotal in recent years.
So in your view, how can bricks cooperation maybe complement the G20 agenda to enlarge the voices of developing countries?
This is an interesting question, because from the moment that the last G20 presidencies since 2022 have been held by partners, countries or members of the bricks, respectively Indonesia, India, Brazil, and now in 2025 South Africa, this shows that there is a natural synergy between these blocks.
And actually this topic covers your previous questions when you ask it about how countries from the global South within the G20 can create a stronger voice for fairer global policies.
Because see, one of the answers to this question is precisely boost the relation of G20 with other groups such as bricks, the African Union, and the G77, in order to start with more inclusive policies.
When this cooperation between these alliances, and especially a dialogue between them, a fluid dialogue, which can face the growing polarizer direction that the world is taking, this organization, they become strong and they also can empower multilateralism.
So one idea for this complement that you asked could be an interaction between the working groups that take place during the rotating presidencies of the bricks and the G20, for example.
It would be somehow a third front that comes from both groups with the goals of both working together.
These groups could have a common space for exchanges and dialogues, meaning their agendas would gain an even greater sense of continuity.
So this synergy between blocks around the world could make that, for example, the policies for hunger to continuity, you know, and don't stop.
And then we can solve more of these world problems with this energy between bricks, G20, African Union, and other blocks.
The chat lounge. The chat lounge unpacks views and opinions on hot issues in a more casual way.
Professor Chu, we know within the G20, there are countries from the global south.
There are also countries from the global north.
How can G20 maintain its focus on multilateralism and shared development goals?
Because the rise of the global south are obviously making some countries in the global north worried about how this might reshape the global order.
Well, I think first of all, we need to change the philosophy ideas about where is the north and where is the south, and how are they related to each other.
After so many years, we understand one truth.
Do you need or simply, just simply, well, we're globalized the world.
Nobody can change that.
And we are a market economy.
Everyone basically are.
So in the market economy and globalized the world, do you want a chaotic economic, you know, at war and a poor neighbors or do you want rich, peaceful neighbors who can, you know, buy your products or provide you in a service as tourism and or, you know, all kinds of the immigrants and etc.
So I think trying to understand only with peaceful friends, peaceful neighbors, rich partners, and, you know, we can circulate with our economy.
We can have a very stable international supply chain and everybody can be prosperous.
Eventually this is a new round of globalization and modernization and modern economies, meaning of it.
It's not like, you know, the mindset.
But this is a brand new world right now.
So we need to understand that this is a new world is coming.
So I think many North countries, the G7 nations, they still are trapped in the previous kind of thinking.
They think this is a, you know, the developing world is a dead weight.
They think it's a problem without understanding the South -South nation is actually the provider of, you know, human resources.
Market, raw materials, energy, and everything is needed not only by the North country, but also by, you know, South country, its own.
So we are a human community with shared faith.
I don't know how many times I need to say that, but I truly hope they can understand the truth.
And after realizing that, we will find out the current problem for everyone is temporary.
It's because I think the technology breakthrough is slowing down.
So new industry emerges slower than the past 20 years, which is like a rocket speed development.
So everybody can earn lots of money, especially the North nations.
So they like that kind of globalization where they can have the largest pie.
Well, this time they try to still keep the position not by, you know, making a bigger pie, but by grabbing more pie existing.
So this kind of mindset also is problematic.
The right way to do so is that we partner with each other in the North and the South, rich and poor.
Everybody poor or wisdom and resource together try to find a new potential area, try to make new breakthrough in the technology and try to nurture new markets.
For a nation trapped in the poverty and the form purchasing power improve the international climate environment.
And those can ultimately in the long run help everyone, including the North nations.
And only by understanding that and put away those old and the trapped, obsolete, think mind of thinking and, you know, put aside all these extreme, you know, right wing politics, and then we can face the future and work together as a whole.
So I think this is what we need actually.
And I think when the South North nations, you know, under the platform of BRICS, and also under, you know, the informal non -binding platform like APAC, are showing more and more vitality.
I think North nations will understand, I think European Union understanding it.
I think Germany, France, Italy, they try to cooperate with South nations more and more because they realize that.
Well, if they want to overcome the aging problem, they want to overcome the inflation problems and overcome the energy supply security issues, they need South nations.
And this is just the beginning.
And if you just want to put your own country first and only your country first, I think more of the consequences can be seen.
And that can be a very teachable moment.
Professor Soklow, what do you make of Professor Zhu's remarks?
Do you think countries from the global north should adjust their mindsets to words to how they trade countries from the global south?
I think it's important that there's a mindset change.
Because you have had countries of the global north dominating the global agenda setting and decision making.
And because of the rise of the global south, the top tier has changed.
In 1975, when the G7, at that stage, the G6 was formed, they were amongst the largest economies in the world.
And they got together as an exclusive club, and they met almost for the past 50 years now that he's been in existence.
For the major part of the period, they determined what was in the best interest of all of us.
And yet they didn't even make up 10 percent of the global community.
The global south makes up over 85 percent of humanity.
The world has changed dramatically.
China is today the second largest global economy.
India, first largest.
Russia, about seven or so.
Brazil is in the top ten.
So here you have now your top ten global economies, a large number of countries from the global south that are continuing to grow at a faster pace.
If you look at global growth today, global growth today is powered by India and China in the main.
You are seeing negative growth in some European economies.
The European Union is growing under one and a half percent.
Most European economies are growing at 0 .5 to 1 .5 percent.
The USA's economy is growing under 3 percent.
But global growth is now coming from the global south in the main.
I think the anxiety that is being experienced by the global north is about them losing power.
And power in every sense of the word, not just economic power, because their economies are shrinking.
The BRICS economies are bigger than the G7 economy today.
So when your economies are more powerful, you have a more powerful voice in the global stage.
But they are not making space for the new players on the global front from the global south.
And I think this is why you have tensions arriving, because of the selfish attitude of the global hegemon that wants to still continue behaving as global hegemon.
I think gone are the days of unilateralism, gone are the days of a unipolar world.
BRICS, we have repeatedly stated we want a multi -polar world, and that is what we need to build upon.
And recognize there are various centers of power today, be it economic and other forms of power as we define it.
Technological innovations and so forth is not limited yet to the global north.
You have seen China being a leader in terms of new technology in so many domains.
In terms of artificial intelligence, much of that is being generated from countries like China and others in terms of the digital economy and digitization.
This is also coming in terms of new innovations from the global south.
So I think it's inevitable.
Those that are resisting change are always pushed to the margins eventually.
But those that move with the tide and realize that we need to adjust and that the world is changing and that is for the benefit of all of humanity, they will continue to prosper.
And I think this is what the global south is saying.
We don't want to dominate the world.
We have been dominated.
We have understood colonialism.
We have understood imperialism and other forms of domination that has been posted upon us for the past two, 300 years.
We are now saying that we want a shared future.
We want to work with all.
Be it the global north, be it the global south.
And I think it's significant that the recent BRICS summit in Kazan.
We have seen a NATO member becoming a partner country.
We have seen another European country joining as a partner country.
So BRICS is starting to straddle the so -called north -south divide that we speak of.
And I think we are entering a stage in global society where the lines are being blurred between the north and south and rightfully so.
It should be blurred.
We need to work together and we can only do that if we start cooperating and understanding each other better.
And lastly Yasmin, we know President Xi Jinping after the G20 summit paid a state visit to Brazil and two countries have elevated their ties and expanded bilateral relations.
And also President Xi said that China -Brazil relationship is at its historical best not only improving the well -being of the people in both countries, but also defending the common interests of developing countries and enhancing the strength and voice of the global south.
So how significant is that for major developing countries like China and Brazil to get together to ensure that global cooperation, inclusive growth, building a just the world, multilateralism could carry forward for the benefit of all.
Yeah, as I mentioned before, like the two countries, they signed 37 new bilateral agreements and the countries trade relations in 15 strategic areas.
The agreements signed covered many sectors as agriculture, trade, investments, infrastructure, industry, energy, mining, finance, and many others.
The answer to what President Xi Jinping said that you quote from the President Lula was, and I quoted him also, Chinese companies have participated in bids for infrastructure projects and have big partners in ventures such as the construction of high -end electric blades and highways.
These represent employment, income, and sustainability for Brazil.
And we believe that if this represents all this that was mentioned by President Lula for Brazil, we will also, like, represent for other countries.
So this deepening synergy between Brazil and China, I believe, promotes the development of an emerging countries like Brazil.
And it seems to me that this cooperation can also be applied to other countries for sure.
With that, we're wrapping up this episode of the chat lounge.
I've been speaking with Professor Chuchang, a fellow of the Belt and Road Research Center at the Minzhu University of China, Yasmin Scalii, an independent journalist from Brazil specializing in international relations, and Professor Daniel Soklo, South African High Commissioner to India, Bangladesh, and Nepal.
Thank you so much for listening.
Bye for now.
