I'm Dr. Becky and this is Good Inside.
Parenting small children is a full body sensory experience.
I mean, they scream.
They grab.
They make messes.
And as a parent, it can be totally overwhelming and take the joy out of a moment.
My guest today is Larissa Jalaris.
She's an occupational therapist specializing in sensory processing disorder.
And she helps parents with sensory and emotional regulation so they can enjoy parenthood.
By the end of this episode, you'll learn some concrete things you can do to feel less
overwhelmed in all of those intense moments.
We'll be right back.
Let's be real.
Traveling with kids is a trip, not a vacation.
And when you're in a hotel room, your kid's bedroom is also your bedroom, and your living
room, and your dining room.
And lights out for them means lights out for you.
Not really the vacation parents have in mind.
But then we discovered Airbnb.
My kids had their own bedroom, and we found ourselves with a luxury we never thought
we would have on a family trip.
A one hour vacation, each night all to ourselves.
You know I'm all for self-care, and that means making sure all parents get more moments
like this, even on vacation.
And if you're planning an upcoming family trip, two things are true.
Your home could be an Airbnb for another family.
And it's a great way to earn some extra money to use for your kids' camp, your next vacation,
or something you want, because your needs matter too.
Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.
So just to frame this, for us, for everyone listening, I want us to talk about kind of
the experience of a parent being so overwhelmed with all of the noises and touching and screaming
and just kind of sensory overload.
And I think I'm starting to see a little bit more in the media, in literature, about awareness
of sensory dynamics in kids.
But what I want to focus here is on the parents' sensory experience of their kids.
Yes, it's a big experience.
Right?
So you work as an occupational therapist, primarily with children, with sensory processing
disorder.
And I want to hear kind of how and why you shifted to kind of addressing sensory issues
within parents.
Yes.
So I, like you mentioned, had been working with in the pediatric population for a long
time.
And then when my son was about 18 months old, my oldest, we all went hiking as a family.
I hit my head, got a pretty terrible concussion, and ended up with my own sensory dysfunction.
A lot of being very startled by noise, pretty much everything I treated in the clinic, I
was then experiencing.
And I had to work through those experiences and also parent at the same time.
And so that was the big shift in me thinking, like, wait a minute, parents need this information.
You don't have to have hit your head to know that parenting is a sensory nightmare.
And I have these tools.
I have figured out how to use them in a way that's effective.
And so that's where I started.
I hopped on Instagram in March of 2020, like everyone else, like, what else are we going
to do?
And that was really what stuck with people really feeling validated when I would talk about
my own experiences with sensory overload as a parent.
And what were the evidence-based tools that I was using for myself to support myself
in taking care of my child and now children, I now have two of them.
Yeah.
So just for everyone listening, right?
Because sometimes these terms are confusing sensory processing.
Like one of the ways I think about it, okay, is the other day, somehow we're a rack
you'll see on a weekend.
All three of my kids were out on plate eats somewhere else.
And I walked into my house and I sat down in my couch.
After like 30 seconds, I was like, it is so quiet.
It was confusing.
It was so quiet.
And for maybe the like 21 minutes I had, I got so much done, I felt so at ease.
And then one by one, my kids came home.
And like everything changed, right?
Like, yeah, everything.
It was so loud.
It was like, it was so loud.
It was like, like each of my kids was like kind of like I need to sit on your lap.
I need to touch this.
Mommy come here, do this.
The pulling, it was so different.
And you're right, it's never really discussed like no one would become a parent is thinking
about their own sensory experiences, their sensory bucket, how they experience kind of noise
or touch or these different things.
And yes, I think your work is so important because it is a really influential factor in our
moods and our reactivity and how we then interact with our kids.
Yes, exactly.
It's just, it's everything.
And the thing when I was in pediatrics, I would speak to the parents like sensory processing
is your most foundational sense of yourself.
If you do not have a good sense of yourself, you cannot feel safe in the moment.
You can't access your higher level skills, executive functioning, attention, concentration,
emotional regulation.
None of it can happen without good effective sensory processing, which happens down in the
brainstem.
So if you think about it from like a pyramid, the brainstem is the lowest part of the
most primitive part.
If you don't have that, no higher level skills are available.
And so in parenthood, it's the same thing.
If we are not regulated down in our brainstem, all of the other demands of parenthood can't
happen, they're just not available.
Yeah.
So can you give some examples?
So someone's like in my brainstem, sensory processing, like what goes into that?
So when I talk about sensory systems, I want you to think about them as like the backstage
crew.
This is like my favorite metaphor for it because when you think about a backstage crew
in a production, there are so many different jobs.
They're all working, doing their own thing, working behind the scenes.
They're talking to each other, you know, you have lights, costumes, all of that.
They're all working together and separately to make sure that the job gets done.
But you as the viewer, the audience don't see it happening, but you do see a seamless theater
production.
So you see it all come together.
But if one crew member isn't moving efficiently or if it's not talking to the other systems,
then the whole production will struggle.
You'll notice it's like the lights didn't turn on when they should have and you might
not be able to tell why immediately.
But if you do know the role of every crew member, then you can start to figure it out.
So if you think about the sensory systems, it's the same thing.
So we have our five sensory systems that everybody always talks about.
Those are the ones you learn in kindergarten, you know, sight, taste, touch, smell and hearing.
But there are also three hidden senses as well.
Here's Vistibular, which is our sense of head movement where our head is in relationship
to gravity.
How it's tilted, if it's moving towards the ground and how quickly it's moving, we have
proprioception, which is our, it's located in our muscles and joints.
It's the input that you receive when your muscle stretch and contract, when your joints move,
it provides information about where our body is without having to look at it.
So that's how you can reach around to get that itch on the back, on your back without
needing to see it.
And then we have our inter-oception, which is our sense of internal sensations of the body.
So that's heart rate, that's hunger, thirst, bowel and bladder pressure, all of that.
So all of those systems, all eat of them need to be working together and separately and
talking to each other so that we can then have a good sense of where we are in space,
have a good sense of what's happening around us and keep ourselves safe.
So really, it's a foundational primary sense of safety.
So for example, the auditory system will tell us if there's a predator looming nearby.
Our Vistibular and proprioceptive systems will tell us if we're moving, if we're falling,
or being pushed, the tactile system, our touch system tells us if we're getting bitten
by a snake or if we are brushing up against some poison ivy.
So if we shift that understanding of sensory processing and sensory overload really to a
sense of foundational safety, then it's a lot easier to one show kindness to ourselves
when we enter sensory overload and also to understand how foundational it is.
And it's really, it's when we are experiencing sensory overload, it's just our sensory systems
working a little too fiercely in the midst of sensory chaos.
So okay, so let me paint a picture because I hear from parents all the time, I know the
parent, I want to be, I see the situation, my kid is having a tantrum, my kid's getting
really upset and I kind of know how I want to show up, but then the moment comes and I'm
not showing up that way.
So let's say this parent, calling for a friend, has a five year old son, like I happen
to, and that son is very strong and very strong willed and when you say no, that kid is,
it is not an easy, okay, mom, it's like, no, I want it, I want that water bottle now
and I need that water bottle now and you need, okay, like from your OT perspective, from
a sensory perspective, like walk us through what might be going on for the parent.
So the parent listening me and maybe some of her listeners do, can just better understand,
oh, like that's a factor in why it's so hard for me to stay calm.
Yeah, I also have a strong willed five year old son, so I don't know if you were talking
about me, but that sounds very familiar in my life.
So what happens then is let's think about co-regulation because that is such a key piece
and it's talked about so much in the parenting space, but one of the pieces that gets talked
about which is great is that a child needs like a, a calm adult to learn how to stay calm.
Absolutely 100%.
And co-regulation is our nervous system listening to another's nervous system and making sense
of the situation based on somebody else's outward experience.
So if we, the parent, are getting cues from another, like you're the worst mom ever,
hitting, screaming, tantruming, all of that stuff, that is sending signals to our nervous
system that there's danger.
And that's just instinct.
That's not anything wrong.
That's exactly what it's meant to do, but we as the parent then need to be able to step
back, but to understand like this is just our nervous system talking to each other.
It makes sense that a dysregulated child will dysregulate an adult.
So I love this clarification, right?
Because if we're thinking about other times, our nervous system would send our bodies
the message of danger.
Let's say like we're all out in a forest for some reason and a bear attacks, okay?
And like a bear is right there, some animal.
We don't want our bodies to say, hey bear, it's going to be okay.
Like I'm here for you.
Like that would be so weird.
And like we'd be like wow, my body really was working against.
Like it's sort of like realize there was a danger, like probably started running or like
I don't know, fighting or whatever we do, right?
So that wouldn't make sense.
So okay, we're not in the forest with a bear.
It's true.
We're not in the kitchen talking about a water bottle with our five year old son, okay?
But our body, when it hears our five year old scream goes from zero to a hundred, goes
from kind of quiet to really, really loud.
Maybe they're pulling on our arm too, right?
Our body is kind of not operating in space in the same way because we're being pulled
whatever it is.
Our body, is this what you're saying too?
It kind of thinks it's being attacked by a bear.
Yes.
And I would argue that we're not going from zero to a hundred.
We're going from like 70 to a hundred, 60 to a hundred.
We're when we think of the correction.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, it's, I think it is so easy to feel like you're going from zero to a hundred
because the little subtle shifts in your body that indicate that you are in a heightened
state are hard to notice.
And so that is really, honestly, the bulk of my work is helping you set yourself up proactively
once so that you can notice those subtle shifts and then shift yourself back down.
So when your child does have those meltdowns in those tantrums because they are going to,
you are starting at zero, maybe 10, maybe 20.
And so you are better able to handle that your body is not already in a heightened state
of nervous system activation so that you can then be that calm for your child versus
going from like, so Larissa, Larissa is what you're saying.
When our kid has that tantrum, that scream and we think, oh, I went from zero to a hundred.
If we think about the zero or a hundred as like a bucket that can hold a certain amount
of water, we're actually not at zero.
Like if we're not paying attention to our sensory system and our sensory needs when we're
not in a tantrum, we're probably at 70% full of our bucket at baseline.
We think our zero but we're not.
It's already 70% full.
So then our kid does whatever the thing is they do and we think, oh, I'm so triggered.
I don't show up the way I want.
But really, the answer might not be, how can I intervene differently in the moment?
The answer might be, how can I intervene differently with myself outside the moment?
So when I get to that moment, I actually am closer to zero percent full of my sensory
bucket and I'm not so easily overflowing.
Is that, is that making sense?
Is that accurate from your perspective?
Yes.
Okay.
So tell me more, explain that more to everyone because that's a really powerful shift and
actually gives us like a different intervention to think about.
Yes.
So if you think about like you were saying, thinking about your sensory systems as a bucket.
So we, everybody has a different sensory capacity for what their nervous system needs.
Not only what they can handle, but what they need.
Like everybody needs a certain amount of input.
Some people need more to stay regulated to kind of be in this active like where you and
I are having this conversation and we are attentive and alert and engaged.
Some people need a lot.
Like for me, before this, I was chewing crunchy food.
I was listening to loud music.
I was really getting myself pumped up for this conversation because I knew that I was already
feeling kind of sluggish.
And so that's what I did.
Whereas for others, they may need like very little.
Maybe somebody would have needed like a very calm environment to get to that alert and
concentrated and regulated state.
Throughout the day, we are getting sensory input.
Even without children, we would be getting sensory input.
We are driving, talking, eating, all of that should be a good amount of input to keep us
regulated throughout the day.
Depending on the size of our bucket, we need more or less.
And so if we know that we have a smaller bucket, then when I say bucket, I mean like your
capacity.
So for what you can handle, so if you imagine sensory input, like water going into a bucket,
if it's a smaller bucket, it will overflow more quickly.
And that's where you see over stimulation.
And it's this total like, whoa, too much, too fast.
And it spills over.
And so what we want to be doing is providing opportunities to empty that bucket throughout
the day so that we can handle the big moments in parenthood.
And not only just be there for our children when they're having difficult moments, but we
also want to enjoy them.
And I think that's a huge piece that a lot of parents are like, I just need to get through
this.
I need to get through this.
Parenting is beautiful.
And when we are in a regulated state, from a sensory perspective, our nervous system
is available to have safe connected relationships.
And that means enjoying our children, playing with our children, and really getting to know
them.
Having sensory strategies is such a beautiful thing in supporting that.
It seems like during the school year, my kids are always coming home with something.
And finding an over-the-counter medicine for my kids that I trust is a real challenge.
And this is why I love Mommy's Bliss.
Mommy's Bliss has been the highly trusted baby brand for 25 years.
And if you're a parent, you probably know about their grape water or vitamin D drops.
Well, now they've launched a new pain and fever medicine that's not only safe and effective
for infants and children.
It's also the first ever clean label project certified acetometaphan.
Here's what that means for parents.
No high fructose corn syrup, no dyes, no artificial sweeteners, and it's free from the top nine
allergens.
But don't worry, they didn't leave out the part that kids actually care about.
It has a delicious natural berry flavor with organic elderberry, which means my kids don't
put up a fight when it's time to take it.
For minor aches and pains caused by colds, flu, sore throats, and tooth aches, there's
Mommy's Bliss, Pain and Fever.
Now that's medicine for peace of mind.
Okay.
Big exciting announcement.
We are giving the good inside potty program away for free.
That's right.
Get our two steps for potty success.
That includes a potty workshop and a potty reference guide.
Because I know parents need something to reference in, well, the messy moments that sometimes
accompany the potty process.
So you might be wondering, why is this free?
What's the catch?
There's no catch.
I feel so confident that our potty program will take the stress out of this milestone
for you and your kid.
And it will actually give you and your kid feelings of empowerment and confidence.
And I want every single family to go through this milestone with that type of positivity.
To unlock the good inside free potty program, follow the link in show notes and enter your
email.
I can't wait to hear your success stories.
I want to talk about a group of kids that I'm particularly passionate about.
Why?
Because I think these kids are some of the most misunderstood kids in the world.
I see these kids as deeply feeling kids and the world tends to see these kids as oppositional,
defiant kids.
What are the kids I'm talking about?
Are the ones who have explosive meltdowns?
They're the ones who tend to yell, I hate you.
Go away when you know they actually need your help.
They're the ones who will trip and fall and then blame you even though you were not
around them at the time.
These kids are misunderstood because they're seen for their difficult behaviors instead
of or their underlying core struggles.
And because of this difference, I really want to work a while ago and create a completely
different approach for these kids.
And approach that parents tell me leads to the first time they've ever understood their
kid.
And then the first time they've ever seen productive change in their home.
I want to make sure you know about my upcoming live, deeply feeling kid workshop.
You're going to get an approach that makes you say, oh my goodness, this is my kid.
And then you're going to get a set of strategies that actually work.
First things first, follow the link in show notes to see if your child is a DFK and see
exactly how we can help.
All of it is available within membership at goodinside.com.
I can't wait to connect with you inside.
So Laura says, so I'm going to assume for a lot of the parents listening.
They're thinking, oh yeah, I never maybe thought about that way, but I think maybe I
have a small bucket.
And let me be clear, everyone.
It's not like a morality judgment.
It's not like you're a worse parent for that.
Not at all.
I feel like adulthood is just about getting to know ourselves, figuring ourselves out and figuring
out of meet our needs.
There's no better or worse.
It's really just that.
Right.
And so for people who are thinking maybe that is one of the reasons I find parent had so
chaotic and so loud.
This is why maybe I find tantrums that much more difficult to even be in the same room
in when it's happening.
A parent's listening to this, I think they're like, oh my goodness, that makes so much sense.
And then I think they're wondering, okay, can you please give me like one, maybe two,
concrete, how to empty that bucket, how to bring ourselves back to a zero type of exercises.
Could you walk us through one right now?
Yes.
So one of my all time favorite strategies because it's so simple is leaning against a wall.
Because what happens when you lean against a wall, one, you're not, I mean, I love hiding
in my closet in my bathroom too, but kids seem to like follow you in there and then it's,
you know, then they're banging at the door and then you're feeling guilty and it's this
whole thing.
So when you are leaning against a wall, your kids don't notice that something else is
happening.
They're still doing whatever they're doing.
But you are getting grounding input into your body from the wall.
It helps you understand where you are in space.
It also cuts off auditory and visual stimuli from behind.
So you then are not, you're only having to process half of what you were processing before.
And so it cuts down the demands significantly.
And so it can be one of the most effective.
So wait, I'm gonna, I know you can see me, everyone can see me.
I'm in a podcast studio.
I hope I, I actually like, I'm gonna do this.
So you can see me.
So I'm standing up.
And just like literally just put my back against the wall.
Okay.
And yes, now I'm getting, I'm cutting off kind of half the space.
And also, I don't know if this is what's intended.
Like, it sounds so, I feel supported by the wall.
Is that part of it, that input?
Yes, it's like a weighted blanket for your back.
And it's, and then you also can breathe there, which is, and then you're getting tactile
clues, cues into your ribcage too, so you can really take in those deep breaths in and
out.
You can ground yourself and understand where you're really pay attention to your feet.
You can, it's so simple and so grounding, which is why it's one of my favorites.
And that can really, it can really help reduce spill out some of the water in your bucket.
And then I want to make this one more level, like logistically concrete for everyone
listening.
The other day, actually, lursate in our membership, someone posted this screenshot of their phone
and kind of said, like, you know, you're a good inside member, you know, when, essentially,
because I'm such a big fan of using phone reminders to help us kind of align our intention
with actions.
Because to me, like, let's use technology for our benefit when our phone beeps, like,
we all listen to it, right?
So we can use that to our advantage.
So everyone listening here, if you are not driving a car, if you are able to.
Actually, take out your phone and go to reminders.
And I would, I would set a reminder that says, stand against a wall, breathe in and out,
I don't know, 10 times, whatever the amount is.
And then set it for a time in your day when you know you're not going to be mid-tantrum.
So maybe your kid naps at noon.
So you're like, you know what, that generally happens, you know, 80% of the time.
So it's 1215.
I am someone who always takes a midday walk.
Okay, do it that.
And I know I pick up my kid at 3 p.m. I'm going to do it at 230.
And actually set that.
Would you have someone set it every day, like, once a week, like, how often?
Oh, multiple times a day.
Because it's such a simple thing.
It doesn't take anything away.
You can be there for a minute.
You can be there for 10 minutes, whatever your body needs.
I also would think about the moments that you know are triggering, like that 5 to 8 p.m.
Chaos.
So maybe at 4, before your kid start getting hungry and cranky and clawing at your leg and
the stove vent start running and the sizzling from the pan on the stove.
And when you know that those moments of the day are especially triggering for you,
then before those moments is when you want to be taking time to support yourself.
And leaning against a wall is one way to do that.
You can also add in crunchy and chewy foods, either at the same time or at a different
time.
And that provides deep, resistive sensory input into your mouth.
That's why babies like to chew on things.
Their children are brilliant at figuring out what they need.
And somehow somewhere along the way, we've lost that.
But those strategies still work for us as adults.
And when you are chewing something crunchy, chewing something chewy, it could be gum,
it could be dried mango, it could be beef jerky, it could be a bagel, whatever it is.
It's providing input into your muscles and your joints into your jaw, which are very,
very sensitive and releasing serotonin, which then helps regulate you.
And so having moments where you know those strategies and you do them intentionally, not
mindlessly, if you're just kind of like, oh yeah, I'm going to chew whatever, but not
really pay attention.
I'm still scrolling on my phone.
It doesn't exactly have the same effect.
Really be mindful about what you're doing.
Feel the input into your joints and really pay attention to it.
And you can feel the tension, the sensory overload melt away.
I love that.
And now my like bagel habit, I feel like has like basically is like evidence-based, you
know?
Absolutely.
Yeah, I appreciate this, you know?
Holy, everything bagel with scallion cream cheese is good for the soul and it is good for
my sensory bucket as well.
So just saying.
Well, Laura said this was great and I love this really kind of concrete way of giving
parents things that they can actually do.
So those moments come when they're overwhelming and their body might be kind of just able
literally to tolerate a little bit more of that sensory experience because they have
figured out a way to empty, you know, something out.
So thank you.
Thank you for your focus.
Thank you for these strategies.
Thank you for your ideas.
This was fantastic.
And look forward to hopefully connecting another time soon.
Yes, absolutely.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thanks to Airbnb.
Remember, your home could be worth more than you think.
Find out more at airbnb.com slash host.
Thank you for listening.
To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com slash podcast or you could
write me at podcast at goodinside.com.
Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world and you deserve resources and
support so you feel empowered and confident for this very important job you hold.
I'm so excited to share good inside membership.
It's the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global
community of like valued parents.
It's game changing and built for a busy parent who wants to make the most out of the few
minutes they have.
Goodinside with Dr. Becky is produced by Jesse Baker and Eric Newsom at Magnificent
Noise.
Our production staff includes Sabrina Farhi, Julianna and Kristen Muller.
I would also like to thank Erica Belski, Mary Panico, Brooke Zant and the rest of the good
inside team.
And one last thing before I let you go.
Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle
and even as I have a hard time on the outside.
I remain good inside.
