Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, Huyang.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yushan coming up.
During the pandemic in the U .S., it started with quiet quitting, doing the bare minimum and setting boundaries.
Now it's revenge quitting, walking out with a bang.
More American workers are now quitting, not just to leave, but to make a statement.
Could this trend catch on elsewhere?
Let's say here in China.
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A viral resignation video, a trending hashtag and boom, quitting your job turns into a social media spectacle.
That is one thing China and the U .S.
have in common on social media.
These are called viral revenge quitting videos.
But in real life, North Americans have taken quitting to the next level.
Dramatic exit meant to stick it to the boss have become a trending response to workplace frustration.
Meanwhile, in China, quitting trends are, I would say far more low -key with an eye on guanxi, those all important professional connections.
After all, you never know when you're, or you will cross paths with your old boss again.
So is the American way or the North American way of quitting a bold move or could it come back to bite them?
And does China's more reserved approach mean employees miss the chance to demand better treatment.
So let's turn our attention over to North America.
Is this a replacement of the previous quiet quitting trend?
Right. So quiet quitting was this workplace trend.
It gained popularity around mid -2022, especially on the social media platforms that you mentioned, TikTok and others.
But quiet quitting is a bit of a misnomer because you're not actually quitting when you're quiet quitting.
You're still working, but you're doing the bare minimum required for the job.
So no overtime, no extra projects, no going above and beyond.
And instead of actually quitting, the employees who chose to go that path would just set boundaries for themselves within the office that was better for their work -life balance and their mental health.
And they really just rejected that hustle work culture that can often lead to burnout.
And that trend, the quiet quitting trend, came about as a result of COVID -19.
I think we can say at least it was exacerbated by COVID -19.
And that made people reevaluate their relationship with work.
Some people said, oh, we support that quiet quitting idea because it's a healthy way for you to set boundaries.
Other people said, that's a terrible idea.
You're not ambitious.
You're not engaged with your work.
You're being lazy. There's a lack of motivation there as well.
So it was very divisive.
But again, that was mid -2022, and here we are in 2025, and it seems like we're saying goodbye to quiet quitting.
And hello for good or bad, I don't know.
to revenge quitting i heard revenge quitting is that you quit loudly like make a lot of noise kind of quitting yeah i wonder what that sounds like you walk out the door uh and everybody in the office knows that you're walking out that door as opposed to just having a quiet meeting with your boss and saying
i'm not going to work here anymore you're making a scene oh wow and also So this gave rise to social media vloggers or these KOLs who publish videos of them quitting.
And I've always wondered, could it, it's possibly the one hit wonder kind of social media vlogging?
Because you can't be quitting every day and the content you can churn out is limited.
But it did garner attention in China and in North America as well.
And also just going through the recent years of workplace trends, a lot has happened in North America.
In China, I think, in comparison, we're relatively quiet.
What you mentioned as quiet quitting, that sounds like coasting to me.
And I don't want to point fingers.
No, shouldn't be doing that.
And if you're a listener, you're possibly thinking, huh, some people might be somehow incorporating that into their work mantra, like silently when they say it to themselves.
We have an expression in English called phoning it in.
And that means just doing what is required of you and nothing more.
And nobody needs to know.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
But it's really interesting.
Sorry, just to bring up one more workplace trend, because you were talking about revenge quitting.
I have to admit, like if you look at Chinese social media, this is not something that's particularly trending.
But you brought this to our attention, Steve.
And I did a little bit of digging.
And as I refresh my memories, a few years back on the show, we talked about the great resignation, resignation in the U .S.
And this happened right after COVID.
So like this was before quiet quitting.
And then that was when millions of employees voluntarily left their jobs in search of better opportunities and working conditions, I mean.
And this movement was characterized by a re -evaluation of work -life balance and job satisfaction in North America.
And that's exactly what's happening here.
And when we look at the numbers, I don't want to give the impression that everyone in the United States and Canada is just screaming, I quit, and running out of the office.
That's not what's happening at all.
In fact, the numbers are quite low.
Some 4 % of full -time employees are planning to revenge quit this year.
This is a survey result from SoftwareFinder.
So 4 % are planning on doing it this year.
Most gave it some thought for the past year and a bit, so it's been on their mind Hybrid workers are the most likely to make the move, 7 % planning to revenge quit in 2025 According to the study, 17 % of full -time employees have done this in the past They have revenge quit before, and they might do it
again The groups most likely to have done so include entry -level employees at 24 % Gen X employees at 21%.
And again, remote workers or hybrid workers at 20%.
And in terms of industry, they say that workers in the marketing and advertising fields, IT and tech fields, and uh -oh, media and entertainment fields are most likely to revenge quit.
Yeah, and this doesn't really surprise me here when you said Gen X employees are more likely to fall for this trend as well.
Because nowadays, Gen X, Gen Z, around my age, people, they, you know, for global perspective, it's more of they we are the generation that tend to prioritize mental health and also work life balance, that kind of, you know, mentalities and also apply that actively to measure how much work we're doing,
how much, you know, such quote unquote balance we are able to maintain these days.
And also the purpose -driven career over the traditional focus on just simply securing a job is on top of the priorities for these groups of people as well.
So, yeah, it's understandable.
Can I ask a question here as well?
I think that's a really valid point.
And then I think now this has almost become a tagline for Gen Zers or Zoomers.
These are those born between 1996 to 2010 -ish.
Yeah. So pretty much young people.
And then when you say, oh, it's mostly the entry level employees who might be doing the revenge quitting in North America.
Sure. Young people, you don't have a lot to lose.
You've just joined the workforce.
Got it. And what about Gen X's?
This is the really surprising thing, because so for us millennials, we're sandwiched between Gen X, who are older, and then Gen Z.
These are folks who have mortgage to pay.
They have a family.
They maybe need to support their parents and have young children.
And they're just walking out revenge quitting?
What's happening? Well, they say that Gen Z is at the forefront of this movement because they're prioritizing the things that you talked about, mental health, work -life balance, purpose -driven careers.
But they're not the only ones doing this.
It's not limited to them.
Older employees, too, might choose to quit in protest.
And that's what revenge quitting is, by the way.
They had enough. Well, you hear the word revenge and you think like you're going to do something dark and nasty to your bosses, but that's not what it's about.
It's a form of protest saying, I felt unhappy here because of you, because of the way that I was treated or because of a lack of opportunity.
And instead of just quietly disappearing into the shadows and looking for my next job opportunity, I'm going to let you know.
And I'm going to let the other employees know that I felt mistreated here.
But, again, it's not just Gen Z.
Mid -level professionals are also increasingly adopting this trend according to this.
Now, I said that the numbers were quite low, right?
And they are, 4%, 7%.
But this is quite high.
The number of people revenge -quitting is a fraction of the overall workforce.
But the survey found that 93 percent of full time employees were frustrated with their current role.
Ninety three percent, according to these this result, unhappy employees.
And the reasons were largely the same as those who do plan to quit quietly or through their revenge style.
Forty eight percent said low salary and a lack of raise opportunities.
Thirty four percent said they were feeling undervalued.
33 percent said they saw no prospects of career growth.
So even though the revenge quitting numbers might be might be considered low and I think it's a good thing that that is a low number still 93 percent that's a that's an alarmingly high percentage of employees who are just unhappy with their current position.
Well one thing is universal.
You don't always get graciously happy quitters.
How are workers handling resignations here in China?
Well, the thing is, you don't really see this being like a social media trend.
But one thing we know is that, well, many people focus on holding on to their jobs rather than making dramatic exits.
Quitting in China is usually a quieter, more pragmatic decision.
In China, many workers prioritize job security, especially in an economic climate where competition is fierce and opportunities can feel a little bit uncertain.
But that doesn't mean that dissatisfaction isn't here.
It just plays out differently, often through internal job hopping or silent disengagement and quitting, too.
And it's interesting here in China, you see that happen, too, with especially younger workers.
Like I said, they don't have a lot to lose.
And then also, like, this is an interesting revelation, actually, like in the past, let's say for millennials, although I have to say back in the day, we were we have been called out as the most self -centered generation, but we turn out okay.
With our generation, as you get older, you're raising family, you're paying up mortgage, you slip into the typical life of a middle -aged life person or whatnot, and you're reliable, you do job, etc.
But anyhow, with young people, apparently they don't necessarily even go through the trial period when you go to a new job.
And actually, I think a couple of weeks ago, or was it last week during our Heart to Heart segment, we had a lovely listener asking us, I've dabbed my toes in this new job for two weeks.
I'm considering quitting.
Is that even quitting?
I don't even know. So, yeah, it's really interesting that with the younger generation, certainly we're seeing things change and maybe align a little bit closer to their peers in North America.
Here's another interesting statistic, I think, that tells us a little bit more about this story.
And I was wondering, you know, why now?
Quiet quitting made sense somehow because, OK, you're unhappy and, OK, your rebellion is you are not going to work overtime or work on extra projects.
You're going to do the bare minimum, but you're still receiving your paycheck.
So from a personal point of view, that financially makes sense for people, right?
But this trend now, why has it come about?
I think it's because employees have said enough is enough.
And this is the statistic that I wanted to mention.
This is from Glassdoor Data.
17 % of workers took a pay cut when switching jobs in 2024 compared to 15 % in 2023.
Now, that's a marginal increase, but it's an increase nonetheless.
And what that tells us is that when people leave, we often think people want to change their jobs for a higher salary, right?
Not the only reason, of course, but it's a pretty good incentive for people to switch their career path.
But here we're seeing that people are willing to take less money to work in a place that might offer them some form of personal satisfaction.
Maybe it's a better workspace.
Maybe the they have better career opportunities in the future.
You know, what what have you.
But I thought that was really kind of fascinating that, you know, near that's approaching 20 percent, isn't it, of people who quit are willing to take lower pay for a place that makes them happier.
Yeah, well, as a person who grows up or grew up in a developing country, I just somehow at the back of my mind, I feel, oh, those people have lives really nice.
Because if you're thinking about, you know, putting dinner on the dinner table and then, well, I mean, if I'm supporting a nailing parent or something like that.
Or you have a couple of kids.
Yeah, then I don't know if I have a cushion to fall back on to think like that.
But also another thing that's happening in the U .S.
is if you follow the news, you'll probably see all the things that the DOJ department led by Elon Musk has been doing.
And then we're seeing that federal workers jobs are being cut in swaths.
So I'm still I'm wondering, you know, then you've going to you're going to see a whole bunch of workers who used to work for the government and now they're out looking for jobs possibly.
And I wonder how many people are going to feel that, oh, I'm comfortable enough to do this revenge quitting or just quit in a – this fashion.
Dramatic fashion. Yes, because a lot of people, you know, they really hang on their job to function, to live, you know?
Sorry to interrupt.
Go ahead. Sorry. I was just trying to add up to Ho -Yang's point.
That's where you put your priority at, right?
right? Because when surviving the family or just keeping your kids to be able to go to school is your priority, then of course, they're not simply going to quit a job and cut that financial supply simply because I don't like what I'm doing.
And I feel like this is enough.
Many more people are choosing to stay on a job for that very reason.
So again, that's how you choose based on the priority of life.
I want to make it clear.
We are not advocating standing up and screaming your way out of the office to quit your job today.
That's not what we're saying.
We're simply reporting a trend.
But I was curious, is this a good idea?
It seems like a bad idea because it might be a knee -jerk reaction.
I know we talked about the fact that people have been considering it for the past 13 months.
So I looked at what experts had to say.
Emily Button -Lynnum is the founder of a coaching consultancy, and this is what she has to say.
What should you do if you feel like you're on the verge of revenge quitting?
Here's the advice. The key advice is to not make any snap decisions, especially driven by emotions.
I always advise my clients to spend time assessing if leaving their job is the only option.
A helpful exercise can be to ask what success means to you and to explore the future life you want to be living and how the work you do can now help you elevate to that point.
I think this is really great advice because we often make decisions when we're angry and that's about the worst time you can make a decision, particularly a decision that is affecting your career.
So just to finish up her point, She said, strong emotions cloud our judgment.
So pause to identify exactly what's triggering your feelings.
Search for a resolution within the company by speaking to your supervisors or your bosses first and see if that can help.
Well, Yushin, do talk about the risks, the regrets, and whether there's a smarter way to stand up for yourself at work.
Wow. I was not prepared for this topic.
But again, stand up for the risks that I put myself at risk.
Like, you don't have to, you know, like, you know, just think about this as, you know, is it burnt bridges?
We tend to think this is burnt bridges or is it bold moves?
I mean, in China, we're seeing the office change as well.
What's worth it to you, right?
Is it really that important to you that you make a scene on your way out?
Because you have to know that when you do that, you are not going to be able to contact anyone at this company in a position of power to help you in the future if you need it.
So what I would say is, you know, this is just kind of a blanket statement for advice.
Don't do this if you can avoid it, because you never, ever, ever know when you might have to call that company and say, oh, I need this recommendation letter or something like that.
That's blanket advice.
That might not be true for everyone.
Maybe you feel like you need to do this.
I'm not sure. But that's what I would say.
Whether it's a viral walkout or a quiet farewell, quitting reflects more than just workplace frustration.
It's a reflection and a reaction to the job market.
In most cases, confidence in finding the next job fuels bold exits.
In the end, how you quit says as much about the economy as it does about you.
Coming up next, Motivational Monday.
Yuxian, what's your Motivational Monday?
Going back to my good old calendar.
So today's self -love action, here it goes.
No one else has walked in my shoes, so they may not realize how tiring or difficult the journey has sometimes felt.
Looking to others for sympathy is healing, but sometimes it can be even more healing to simply sympathize with myself.
Tips for today, how can I show myself sympathy?
Maybe by giving myself some much -deserved downtime, doing an activity I love, or just reminding myself that I am proud of myself.
That's something that I always try to hold on to and always really deeply believe in.
That is, apart from borrowing sympathy and good words and, you know, encouragement from people around me, you always have to hold on to yourself because you are making it happen.
So yeah, that will be my motivational Monday for everybody that's having this intense morning so far.
What are you going to do when that calendar runs out?
Get another one. Yeah, got a new one.
2 .0. Mine, I'll keep it very brief.
Have the ability to laugh at yourself when you make a mistake, right?
You all make mistakes.
We all make mistakes.
We make mistakes here on the show all the time.
and when you do don't be too hard on yourself um just kind of brush it off and move on and say that wasn't my best moment what if it was a really bad joke from steve download the next episode i guess you know what this man has the magic to turn bad into great yeah that's how i see it so thank you so much
steve uh yes i have something to share with you it's got me feeling a little bit emotional.
It starts with a downer, but I promised it will become motivational in the end.
We all know the feeling of regret.
I want to highlight it does hold us back.
We've all been there, wondering whether that other job would have been a better fit.
What if I didn't have the baby and focus on my career?
That's what my friend was talking to me about?
Or what if I hadn't moved from Beijing back to my hometown?
You know what? No decision is without its flaws.
Whether you pick job A or job B, move to a small town instead of making it in a big city, there will always be pros and cons.
And there will always be something you'll miss out on.
But that doesn't mean your choice is wrong.
It just means you're on a different journey.
One that you can still make meaningful.
Sometimes the most imperfect decisions turn out to be the ones that teach us the most or lead us down unexpected beautiful paths.
And here's my Eureka punchline.
There is no right decision, only making your decision right.
Hard choices are hard because there are no best options.
Let's try to let go of the pros and cons list and the endless comparison and analysis of every feature, let go of fear and the thought of taking the safer, easier route.
Decide who you want to be and what you want to live for, and then choose whatever will let you get closer to that and celebrate hard choices as opportunities to define ourselves and our life.
For more details of this thought process, I did not come up with it on my own.
Feel free to search for scholar Ruth Chang or Zhang Mei Lu's writings on this.
So whether you're choosing between two paths, grappling with what -ifs or facing a tough decision, remember, it's not just about making the right decision, but about owning it and making it yours.
Life is way too short to second guess.
So go ahead and be unapologetically yourself in owning those decisions.
And can I also just say that it's not always about picking the perfect choice.
It's about committing to it and turning it into something good for you.
The key is how you live with your decision, how you adapt, and how you make it work for you.
And that's where the magic will happen.
And that reminds you, and me, shall I say, the decision of Jiauzi, the director of Nejia, the sequel, and also the original first one as well.
It took him three years without pay, some say living off the pension of his mom, to study animation on his own.
to perfect his skills, sharpen his vision, and look where he is now.
So let's turn up the energy and remind ourselves we're all good as hell with Lizzo's 2016 track, Good as Hell.
And that brings us to the end of today's show.
Thank you so much, Steve Hatherly and Yushan for joining the discussion.
I'm He Young. We'll see you next time.
