Better late than never, but right on time.
That's how I feel about getting a chance to finally do this and talk to you.
I'm so happy to see you.
I'm so happy to be here, Zane.
Thanks for having me.
Oh, it's such a pleasure.
Thank you for all the amazing music and the truth and the honesty that you pour into it.
And thank you for this remarkable new album.
We got a lot to talk about.
Yeah, feels real.
Huh, i can tell by the way that you're sitting and edging and moving around like oh, it's actually a thing now.
It's a thing it took so long to make, i can tell you.
I mean, it's a lifetime's worth of work that's gone into this album, isn't it?
It's a lot.
It's taken every blood cell.
I'm honestly exhausted, both mentally and physically not in a bad way, just in the way of if I've not been on a stage, I've been pouring into this body of work in some way, shape or form.
And I'm so.
Yeah, I also took on the task of wanting to EP, write all of it lyrically and melodically from the top line perspective and work with a plethora of just incredible musicians and big bands and string sections and orchestras, and like it's just been a labour of absolute passion and love.
I want that as a fan of music.
If you've got it in you and you want to say it, you want to bring it to life and you want me to be immersed, I'll go there.
Your fans will go there.
There's a few roads you could have gone down once you had proof of concept on the last album.
You could have followed up quickly, hit us between the eyes.
I feel like Husband was a little bit of that, like, I'm going to smack you.
I know exactly what you want.
Um, But that really was like there to keep us company while you were trying to figure this out.
It's almost like a sort of distraction over here, like enjoy this, cause you're not even.
I've got something that's out of control going on here.
How important was confidence towards making this body of work and realizing, you know what?
I know this is mine now.
No one can take it away from me.
It works for me and I can go and make these grand statements I know I haven't been to make.
You know, I think, probably part of, probably subconsciously, there's a kind of rebellion in there of the former model of which I existed for so many years, of you know everything being so simple and so minimal.
And you know, having done a serious amount of time um, if i do say so myself, honing the songwriting craft from a songwriter's perspective um, you know, turning up as a songwriter in a studio with another artist and i'm just there to help craft what what, what the song is we need to craft, and and um, You know it being like to brief, it needs to be this long, it needs to be this BPM, it needs to be this and that.
You know, and that was a lot of my life, a miserable existence for me.
So I think there's a subconscious rebellion that has occurred in this body of work of um being told also for so many years you don't know who you are.
You need to pick a sound.
Yeah, because you keep telling me to go in with people i don't know and write top lines in a day.
So how do you expect me to possibly define myself for you exactly unless i have the space to do that Exactly?
It's that and then it's also a mixture of the fact that I'm not just one thing.
I've grown up with many different cultures.
You know, I've got a white dad and a black mom and we're from many different places.
My whole you know, identity is not one thing.
So how can you ask me to decide with my whole chest to choose one thing?
I've just never been that kind of artist or person.
So I had a really hard time for so many years trying to like be something that I wasn't.
That I think in this record embraced maximalism and expressing and exploring in any genre that I felt I wanted to.
If it felt right to go into a little big band swing section from a, you know, a more hip-hop led whatever.
I don't know what even is genres nowadays.
Well, listen to this album.
It's just you, i mean.
You summed it up beautifully.
We're really understanding, and when we listen to this album now, who you are at this point in your life and the journey you've been on to get there.
There's so much to dive into across the subject matter of this.
It's not just getting to know you artistically, but also you tell your life story through this album.
I mean, it's so personal and so honest and so amazing, but I've never had a chance to talk to you about it.
So I want to address this upfront.
How important was that statement that you made for the internet and the world to see in terms of breaking that spell of people having control over you, and what really ultimately urged you to want to take it to a point of I've had enough and I'm not gonna sit in this room anymore?
The internet will break me out of this fucking room, you know?
Well, do you know what?
The best case scenario that could have happened happened in that moment.
But in that moment I was, you know.
I think there's a certain kind of, like you know, resilience.
You have to have to choose to be an artist or a songwriter or anything in the arts.
100%.
You're out of the matrix.
You're no longer in the comfort of capitalism, man.
You've got to make it or that's it.
You've got to go hustle, knock the doors.
No sleep on the.
But after doing that for seven years in that specific label system, that I was in it for me was a breaking point of I'll just be a songwriter for the rest of my life.
Like I can't do this anymore.
So it was almost like you were giving up.
It was almost like you made that statement saying I'm done, I'm cooked.
It was.
Wow.
Well, the great risk was that you have me in a contract.
I'm unbinded in a contract.
And it's a petty business.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
It really is.
You pissed the wrong person off.
They're like, oh, you don't like where you are now?
Well, let's see how you feel in 10 years.
Yeah.
Sitting still.
Yeah.
And I'm just so fortunate that I think it's a mixture of different things.
I gained a lot of attention in the UK.
People started contacting me for interviews.
And it was a very beautiful moment for me for the first time.
I felt like I had some sort of power over my future.
And I was able to kind of pretty explicitly say, you know, You know, I'm going to really go on.
I'm going to take every interview and I'm going to tell every gory detail.
Or we can do this the easy way or the hard way.
It's called leverage.
How does it feel now I've got some?
I fucking love it.
It was a great feeling.
And I'm very lucky they let me go as well.
And it was clean.
Yeah, but guess what?
It doesn't mean the same unless you go on to use that freedom to create something that's truly you, that connects.
And boy, did you.
I mean, it was the ultimate win.
It was like, I got my freedom.
And now all those things that you didn't realize you had.
That was sitting there waiting for you.
I got them.
Oh, it was a really good feeling.
That was a great time, amazing.
Um well, thank you for answering that.
You know the success was, was very sweet for everyone who's who's listened to your music for a long time and seen you get to that point.
Um, and you know, when did it really hit you that, that this, that you know you didn't have to consider the concept of giving up or being a songwriter for hire anymore and that actually this was a pathway you could stand as long as you want was.
Has there been a moment of realization?
I think the second.
We became independent and you know I was aware that we were in this fresh slate, clean slate kind of place, but also, was it, you know, therapy had to occur.
I mean, a lot of healing had to occur.
And, you know, and yeah, it's not it wasn't a simple, you know, it wasn't a simple time.
And when I yeah, when we came out the other side, it was a lot of, you know, soul searching.
Then it was kind of like trying to find know, put together a body of work of these fragmented, very fragmented way, a lot of songs from a lot of years past and new thoughts from therapy and new realizations and things like yeah yeah yeah, also old songs that i've had just been in my dropbox, that i was just like this is.
I really love this song and i want to put my name on it and put it out like oscar winning tears is like a eight-year-old song, like it was, and i was like please, i love this.
No no no no, it was just so, it was, it was.
And then you kind of go in your head and yeah, all right well, we got nothing to lose.
It was literally me, my dad and um uh, we found a distribution company, the one, literally the only place that would take and, and it would take my album as was and like support me on this journey.
Every label i tried to see like would you be down to, because I'm like, how are we gonna do this?
You know, I don't know what being independent is.
I wasn't even considering that at first.
I was kind of maybe hoping for the idea of a new home or, and it was just like no no, we like Ray, but we don't.
This music would need to go again.
It was just so much like wall after wall.
And I was just like, what am I doing wrong?
So we just kind, of you know, we found this great distribution company called Human Resources and this amazing guy called Jay Irving.
We literally mastered the songs, recorded them, a lot of them in my living room at home.
This is album one, you know, put it together, put it out.
And song one, song two came out and it was a real air of like.
You know there was a very small fan base who cared, but the UK music industry was, you know, very like Ray's done, like Ray's over.
Ray hasn't even started, it's so mad, this is so mad, yeah.
So escapism was just like game changing for me and that helped to just start everything off really for me as a solo, as an independent artist.
So many beautiful things about that story.
I mean, not least of all, the fact that you achieve that in a family environment and you get to share it with your family.
You get to keep the business in-house, you get to share the rewards.
And there's an element and a level of trust there that had obviously been lacking from an industry-wide point of view up to that moment.
Has it been challenging for you, as you become successful, to trust that success and trust the people who then want to give you opportunities and offers, because for the longest time, you know it was just going the wrong way?
Um, i think, you know.
I think because we have a very small family team.
You know, my parents are our managers, my sisters are also incredible artists and we have a very lovely tight-knit tiny, lovely team of mostly girls and dad and my creative director, Mikey.
So very small and lovely.
So I just trust my team.
Trust is the most valuable thing.
I think this industry can show you just how many lies and pictures it can paint, how many dreams it can sell.
You know just, you hear everything.
I've heard everything under the sun, like from the age of 16 like, you know, being in a room with one of the biggest people in the game not naming names, but you know I'm 16 years old and it's like this huge artist has agreed to endorse you.
You know, like someone i'm a huge fan of, you know, all you need to do is just sign this contract, like.
It's just like, and you're there like and you're just being toyed with and you're just.
You know it's a real roller coaster of just absolute BS.
You know which this industry can really be and put you through, especially as a young girl who doesn't know any better and just wants to be a flipping singer, you know.
So i think, having gone through and learned some of the toughest lessons, now it's just my little team yeah, and i like it that way and i trust everyone in it, and we got each other's backs and it's safe and that's a really nice feeling.
That first feeling that made you want to be an artist and a singer in the first place is within arm's reach, because the people who were there when you made that decision are right next to you, still right, and i've seen that so many times with artists who forget what that feeling was like on that roller coaster because their family is 15 000 miles away or whatever.
Yeah, and it feels like that's a lifetime ago.
Yeah, it can be really tough.
It can be really tough.
Yeah, you don't get to make a body of work like this unless you feel safe.
I like that.
Yeah, i think you're right.
Yeah, because because the where you're going as a storyteller here is so detailed and so personal and so beautiful.
Yet somehow i still feel like i'm a part of your story.
So thank you, it's a wonderful line.
You've walked on this record.
I received that.
Thank you, zane.
That's really kind.
It starts with an intro.
Girl under the gray cloud.
Seven Negronis deep.
Seven fucking Negronis.
If I had seven Negronis, I'd be deep somewhere.
I was deep somewhere.
I'd be deep somewhere.
They'd be digging me up.
I mean, that's a strong-ass drink.
That's a start of the night drink, not an end of the night drink.
And it starts in a way that I can only assume is truth, and it begins with truth.
So what's happening in that intro?
Well, I'm on my own in Paris, 7 Negroni Steep, sat at some lovely chic bar.
And I'm just on my own and it's kind of a mixture of just a load of emotions that I thought I would have overcome by now.
And I'm looking at myself like, are we here again?
What's going on?
And I guess that image and that night and that whole feeling was both um, you know it was.
It was also quite beautiful.
It's one of those like sad and beautiful pictures and i really wanted to enunciate that into an opening monologue.
I really like the idea of theater and the drama of of of which we are all the main characters of our own lives right, but i really wanted to just expand in that in like a really Yeah, it's a thespian delusion that we have in our own lives for sure.
Right?
Yes.
And I just think, you know, there's a word that I'm so inspired by.
Sonder means the idea that everyone is being overwhelmed by the fact that everyone is living a life as detailed and complex as your own.
Like you look around this room and you're like, these these hands are looking all right you get really deep right but these are the only hands i'm ever going to see in like someone else's hands that's like really theirs and that whole thing just explained like massively but you know there's actually something quite beautiful about the theater in who I am.
I put on my fake fur coat and I go to a bar and I sit down and order Negroni after Negroni, people watching and admiring but also realizing that I'm just like really alone and some of my friends really suck and I don't know who I trust right now.
And, like you know, I think I'm pretty, pretty depressed right now.
You know i've gone back to being low.
I thought i was good, but i know i'm gonna be all right and this is quite a chic moment to be sad, i don't know.
It's like that whole culmination you're someone playing the main character in the remake of your life.
Love that, love that yeah, And also then you get caught up in this situation.
I love having a drink on my own in a bar, whereby sometimes you want to be noticed because you don't want to be alone.
I don't want to be approached, but I'd like to think that somebody knows that I'm there.
But no one gives a shit.
No, especially in Paris.
I love them, but they're too chic.
In New York.
Everyone pretends not to give a shit, but they're all desperately looking, left and right.
In Paris, they genuinely don't give a shit.
Yeah, totally.
It's a beautiful picture that begins this album and then we go into I Will Overcome, which is about as grand a statement to start an album musically as I think you could probably muster at this point in your life.
In fact, it goes beyond, anything I could have expected when I listened to it.
What was it like to tame that song?
Because you didn't.
No, we didn't.
No, this song is.
You know, words are so powerful and I really believe that's quite essential.
Ethos in this music may contain hope is wanting to create lyrics, that to write lyrics, that to write lyrics that you can speak over yourself and rise above something.
You know, some people say manifestation, some people pray, some people have faith in things, some people whatever that thing is.
You know, science also backs this up, right?
If you look in the mirror and you say I'm a failure, I'm a failure, I'm a failure, you will succumb to that thing that you're declaring over yourself.
And this sentence, I will overcome, I will overcome.
The mantra of it.
I will overcome.
Yeah, it's, you know, far fetched and cheesy for somebody who doesn't need to say that out loud.
But some of us do.
And for that girl, I was I needed to and still fall back to, you know, life is flipping up and down.
But this I will overcome statement was so important to me and it was kind of thinking like what song and how am i gonna pair this phrase without sounding like flipping, you know?
Uh, like yoga, ted talk, i don't know.
Like you know, it's like how do you encourage, how do i encourage myself, in a way that just feels mantra, not a catchphrase yeah yeah, yeah.
And so it was kind of this sweeping um sound we found with with tom richards and and chris hill, my two amazing collaborators, who are these orchestral geniuses.
Basically they're just like these musical nutcases.
And um, Tom Richards, I worked on my 21st Century Symphony album with
So these guys are used to just like translating.
You know, we start on a piano and then we work out how to then give what the clarinet is going to do and just like this whole, just the full kitchen sink at, this feeling of you know will overcome and it starting at the beginning of just this trudging through.
You know this, i'm not great right now.
Things aren't great right now.
500 steps left to make it to the front door.
My red high heels click, click.
Four minutes for many.
Two drinks.
I feel my backbone threatened to greet the concrete below.
I mean, who wants to be in Paris drunk and alone?
Who does, though?
It kind of sucks.
It feels like a wasted opportunity, doesn't it?
It does.
Yeah, it does.
It's like, why did I go there to do that?
I know.
You know, there's a couple of tools that you have clearly in your box that you're able to pull out in order to reach past the concerns you have about that phrase becoming pastiche and making it and owning it.
One is your ability to be able to sing it at a level where it goes beyond any cynicism anyone may have.
You own that.
By the end of it, there's no denying it.
There's also the truth in the detail.
You know, I've got to bring it up.
You know, I feel like any artist in particular, any female artist in particular, any female artist coming from the UK who's searching for truth and soul walks in the footsteps of greats, one of which, of course, is Amy.
And I feel like this is one of those things that, as much of an honor as it is to follow in anyone's footsteps as late and great as that that, it's also got to feel sometimes like there's a shadow from other people's point of view that's following you around.
And I love how you address this head on in this song.
Can I ask you about what it took to leave that line in the song and be open enough to be able to recognize how people have perceived you before and how you now perceive that perception and the poison on their keyboard?
Wow, bars, Zayn.
They said the poison on their keyboard.
Poet.
Um look, i think it's so funny to me like just having to kind of.
As you know my, my growth as an artist has been very, very slow and very gradual, so it's not just crept up on me.
But you know you, i'm aware that i'm not like the people see you as something to comment on or discuss or analyze and as a third party, and that's what making art is right.
You make things to be judged and then along with that comes you as a person being picked apart and judged, which is, you know, it takes It's really hard to get used to that.
It's not my strength.
And I also really hate that, if I can add, the fact that people assume that it comes with the job.
Because it doesn't and shouldn't come with the job.
Well, you wish it wouldn't, right?
And then I think on top of that, it's...
Obviously, we have our keyboard warriors who hide behind their screens and will really let it go and really just throw stones, and I find that really hard, and I find it really hard on a hard day, to the point that I'm just not online anymore at all, because it's just really not good for someone like me.
It's like, you know, the through line of just, you think about Amy, right?
Not only her artistry and the artist she was, and the fact that everyone around the world loves her now and loves what she created.
Now you know and wants to.
You know, protect her at all costs, now that she's not here anymore.
And I think it's so important when actually sometimes some of the insults people throw at me is you know, you'll never be Amy, you're a fraudulent attempt at a.
You know what a sad excuse for this.
You know what was the point of you ever?
Who do you think you are, that you have the audacity, you know, and these words, that kind of like people want to throw at you and say and the irony is,
You've done the same times a thousand to this woman who's not here anymore.
Why do you think she flipping drank herself under the table?
What the British press and what people put her through was so evil.
And so dark.
So I wanted to draw from that comparison, though I have experienced a microcosm, is that a word?
Like a tiny caved worth of of what Amy endured.
But I just wanted to say that, like to that specific person you know, just please, can you just take a moment.
Take a step back for a second.
Can we just look and like how long are we gonna repeat patterns?
And just be like horrible, to like oh, it's just people who make songs for a living, like why?
You know, you don't know me, i'm actually a really nice person, you know, and i and i love music and i and i don't mean any, you know.
So i really wanted to address that because it really has hurt my feelings time and time and again, and that's also partly of what the song is about.
You know, this wicked world wants to whisper.
You can't, you won't.
Yeah, shut up and go home and go to sleep.
You know, this is my song to say just, you know what shadows in the room, little breezes in the trees and these whispers in the wind that the fucking just get inside your head.
And i'm so grateful you were dressed to head on.
I was blown away when i heard that lyric in real time and um, i also loved the fact that that you know you didn't choose to make it about you.
You then immediately reminded us all that to some degree.
I mean, I don't want to make it about everybody else, but I mean look, I was around.
We were all around when Amy was struggling and the world didn't do enough.
No.
I'm not saying anyone could have saved her or the situation could have been different, and it's complex and I don't understand the complexities of it.
But I know that we, in the throes and the beginnings of the internet age, were not responsible as a species.
No, it was bad.
And sometimes it still is bad.
And I just think like we just need to remember like, come on.
Come on.
Get your shit together.
Yeah.
I'm going to start moving around now because there's so much music to talk about and there's some key ones I want to get into.
I feel that was a pretty, I mean, keep it light, mate.
Keep it fucking light.
Keep it light.
Keep it light.
I mean, I'm not going to go into fields right now.
You know what I mean?
Let's fucking give that 10 minutes here.
But I can talk about joy and I can talk about the relationship that you as a family have continued to nurture as creatives, not just as family members to mutually support each other in your own visions.
I've spoken to Absolutely briefly on the phone, which was a wonderful experience and that's amazing.
Emma's amazing.
What an amazing life.
I mean to be able to tour as a family and then to bring them onto this record for pure joy.
How was it?
By the way, I also feel like your sisters came and were like where the fuck is the four on the floor, sis?
Where's the fucking four on the floor?
Like, fucking raise the tempo.
I don't know how much truth there is in that.
But I feel like they kicked you, they threw you back in the club for a minute.
How was it making it?
It was a really beautiful time making this song.
I'd say probably about 70 of my album has been made with my longtime collaborator and one of my best friends, Mike Sabbath.
We have literally the best friendship and working relationship.
I've known this boy since before he had facial hair, you know what I mean?
And now he's got a full mustache, like the full thing.
He's so brilliant.
And we took a trip to Big Bear, so random, and rented a little Airbnb somewhere up at the mountain.
And on this trip- What season was it?
It was last year.
It was just after the Grammys.
Okay, cool.
So it's kind of winter going into springtime.
Yeah.
Nice.
Just after the Grammys.
Nice.
Snow's starting to melt, things are starting to thaw out a bit.
Yeah, and it was cool though.
It was nice.
It was up the mountain.
And on this trip we did well.
On this trip, it was my first writing experience for a couple, a long time.
I think we've been touring a lot and just been pretty back to back.
So I was very, it was deep end.
I was like freaking out.
What am I saying?
Yeah, I was like, I don't know, I was surprised, and it was good, what are we doing?
It was like, we were there.
But on this trip, we created this kind of sound.
So we did Where Is My Husband on this trip.
We did Skin and Bones on this trip.
We did Joy on this trip.
We did Beware the South London Lover Boy on this trip.
It was definitely those four at least.
Yeah, you gave us the dynamic ones up there.
Yeah.
And then we threw a bunch of paint and we made a lot of songs, some of which, yeah.
But those were the ones that were formed out there.
And it was funny with Joy, it was just scratch vocals and that very distinct sound.
And the chorus was there from the jump.
How did you get to the stabs?
That was just me and Mike just doing what we do.
What's really great about Mike is any limits, there's no boundaries or no limits.
I think he sees music as freely as I do.
Yes, why wouldn't we do that?
I was like, let's sample James Brown.
That's how I started with him saying there was a record of him.
I wanted to sample great, like the people I love and respect and look up to.
And James Brown had a song.
I can't remember what the original song was, but there's a huge monologue in the middle and he's like talking to his band and he's like Mr So-and-so, are you somebody?
And they're like, I'm somebody.
He's like, say I am somebody.
That's what it's called.
Yeah.
And then we went round and round and then he said, Miss Ray, are you somebody?
And I think he was talking to like one of his singers.
And we were like, oh, it's my name.
Like, let's cut that bit and just loop it.
Started like that.
Kick drum.
Synth.
Dun.
I moved some chords.
We're singing real time, playing real time.
I moved the chords.
Oh, great.
Love these.
Round and round.
Negroni.
Go.
Yeah.
Better Negroni.
Go.
Yeah, it was like literally like that fell out and then it was like let's, let's take it to church and that chorus, yeah.
So we went gospel stacks, loads and loads of vocal layers and then um, it just grew from there, but it was just kind of creating a feeling.
I knew hope was the central theme of this album I wanted to make, and album one was whatever I was going through then and I knew that this one I wanted to be not just for me but, you know, being aware I think, spending like three years on stages, I'd learned so much about what I want to share as an artist and I think actually I wanted to actually create music with the purpose of um hope, but also hope in a live experience.
You know, wanting to.
I want people to enter that space and leave feeling like okay, i'm gonna not give up on life today, like which is, you know, for anyone who doesn't need to.
Um, for anyone who doesn't need that maybe won't get, get it, and that's okay, but i want to make it for that person who needs that.
You know, because you've had moments on stage, touring up to that point where you looked out in the crowd and realized that people were going through what they were going through.
You were present enough to see that you were looking for the music to try to make them feel better.
You had to go make it.
Yes,
Medicine.
Music is medicine.
I'm seeing that people are literally like you know we go to a concert or we go and see a film or we go somewhere.
We're searching for the arts, for some sort of something you know to, to hold on to, to inspire us or to just breathe a new lease of life to, to be able to go and attack the days.
It all ends up being a memory and it's the bit.
I think that's really what it comes down to, right like i'm experiencing this with a family member i'm open about this in my conversations um, who's going through some serious cognitive decay and dementia and stuff, and they would just, they just want the memories.
Man, all my mom wants is the memories, And then when we put the music on, she goes to the place where the memory is.
Oh, that's beautiful.
It's beautiful.
No, music is the therapy.
There's no doubt about it.
Music is magic.
It really is.
But I think that when we buy the hard ticket and we go in and it feels like it's a trade and it's all a part of the machinery of capitalism and blah blah, blah.
And especially right now, with ticketing being such a fucking hot topic, and rightfully so.
Uh, it's about capturing an experience and a memory that you'll remember absolutely, and i literally, oh my god these, these shows have been insane.
But i break myself on touring because i just want to give each night, like my shows, like two and a half hours on a on a passionate day, and you know I care so much about it.
But then there's even like yeah, anyway.
So me and my sisters, having them on this record and having them in these shows and having them as part of this part of my life in such a real and vivid way is one of the most rewarding feelings you can possibly imagine.
It's so funny.
We do Joy at the end of my set and they come out one by one and I'm trying I have to not look at Amma when she comes out, because I'm either gonna cry or burst out laughing, because it's just so, oh sorry, it's just so ludicrous that my little sister's coming out on a microphone singing there's like thousands of people and then my next sister comes out and we just stand together and you know, and then we do the end and the curtain comes down and we're like waving, and then the curtain hits the bottom and then what do you do?
When you literally look at them?
And then we like, literally laugh, and i'm like, And I'm like, how was that for you tonight?
Was that nice?
Did you like that?
And we'll have a little hug.
It's so beautiful.
And those girls are just beginning.
They are so ridiculously talented.
And I'm so proud.
And Joy was a perfect song.
So I remember I had the song and I was kind of very it was actually one of the last songs to be lyric.
I kind of finished the album in order, even though they were created higgledy-piggledy.
But yeah, I was like, girls, I think this is the one we should do.
And then got them in, got a ton of choir takes, loads of vocal layers.
And they each, out of their verses individually, separately, played them to me.
I was like correct, exactly.
I was like yes girls, that's how you do it.
Well done, love you.
Yeah, centre master, I know you're hurting.
You've put that in the order of things in a very real way.
I feel like you've got us into a place where we're strong enough to be able to start listening to different sides of the life story here.
And that one is really, really powerful, that idea of whether you're talking about yourself, you're having a self-reflective moment or reflecting on a relationship with somebody that you care about, that sense of helplessness.
Seeing through the facade.
That to me, there's a lot of pain that you'll experience in life.
That is a very vivid, visceral pain.
Like the unattainable comfort that you want to offer somebody.
Where were you when you wrote it?
How did you feel writing it?
Please just put it through the filter of making that song.
So this is actually one of the first, if not the first record I wrote for this album.
Um, it was last two years ago. in October, my birthday two birthdays ago, 28, 27, 26.
I was 26.
So we had my birthday on that trip.
And I remember I was in the room with my band.
So it was Matt Brooks on the drums and Graham Blevins on the saxophone.
Tom Richards on the organ and I was sat on the piano.
It was this beautiful room full of my guys, you know, and I remember we were having a really real conversation.
We're talking about mental health and we're talking about, you know specifically, actually on that day we were talking about mental health in men and, just how you know, as women we, you know, it's a whole entire, separate conversation, because women, the adversities and discussion there is endless.
But it was also important, I felt in that moment, to really see my guys and i was just kind of talking about the fact that there is still this, not still there is brave face.
You know where i'm kind of like.
Where do you guys talk about emotions?
Where you, where do you guys, you know, express this and that?
Some of them are dads, you know, some of them are, and it's just this real understanding of the fact that, you know, especially in British culture, boys will express themselves or, like you know, emotion expression will come through, like going to the pub and laughing with your friends, like
Social football, I think.
Social football.
Still playing at the age of 48.
Right.
Because you love the game, but equally, where else are you going to let off steam?
Right.
So you guys are going to the pub like, yeah, mate, you're right.
Yeah.
How's the missus?
Yeah, this is good.
Laughing, laughing, drinking, drinking.
But then like this maybe is as deep as it potentially gets for a lot of men and a lot of cultures.
And I was really moved to.
And they expressed as much.
Yeah, they did.
I have a really beautiful relationship, my band and actually we're all getting a little bit teary and um, a little bit emotional and we'd started writing a song earlier that day, kind of talking about mental health and just like, and everyone was just like we're all a bit, we're all crying um, and i remember getting on the piano and i said a little prayer.
Actually I was like you know, dear God, like help me find a way to tell, like a song, to tell this story really beautifully.
And I literally turned to the piano and it was this bum bum bum.
And these four chords that we literally loop throughout the song until the key change, you know f, a minor g, and just loop round and round and all of a sudden brooksy, my drummer, starts catching this kick and we wrote it in real time.
There's a, there's a recording of us making the song together.
It was like an hour and 40 minutes.
Just, you know, like a band, you know just drilling the song, moving together, and I'm singing different, I can see you standing on the edge and just these different.
You know, some of the lyrics were there real time.
Some of them was combed after, but we took away this 12 minute kind of cut demo that I was living with and living with, and then I was like I know I need to make this into something.
And then I went back to my LA place and, with a lovely engineer called Enrique,
And then I remember specifically there's a friend in my life and the lyric was like I was like you know when you need that poignant perspective.
So it's like I have the intention of the song, but actually I'm gonna write this as a letter to my friend who's going through a lot right now.
So it was addressed specifically to him and it was.
You know, it was that purpose of the song that I needed the emotional resonance.
Yeah, to say this is what i want to say to you.
You know yes you you, you always have a kind word for a stranger.
You know yeah, i wish that you could find some for yourself and you claw yourself apart in private moments and over bruises you put plasters on.
And you know, i'm aware how long this song is.
You know it's seven minutes and 50.
I think maybe longer, but I just was like, I'm not, I don't want to cut a single second off of it.
It's interesting.
Cause I saw a review someone wrote the other day or something calling some like it's self indulgent.
And I was like you've completely missed the point of this specific song, because it's actually this It's actually not about me, because actually my instinct might say you don't need this part of the verse.
You don't need this bit.
Make it short.
I'll make it.
That's self-indulgent.
Right, making it, creating it for the purpose of selling records or streaming loads.
You're putting your own identity into something that belongs to other people and was written for someone else.
It wasn't about that.
It wasn't about that.
And it's about giving people a bath of time to enter this song and grieve and feel and hopefully come out the other side when we take that key change and make that lift.
Thank you for doing that because, in essence, that is what's missing from the conversation.
Is that as soon as we start to have these conversations, or traditionally, there's a sense that the clock is ticking and we need to just say what we need to say and get on with getting on.
And actually what you need and what human beings in general need is more space and more grace.
Space and grace.
Yeah.
Yep.
That's kind of what we need more of.
Yes, we do.
But we're just bashing into each other all the time.
Yeah, and everything's getting shorter and shorter and quicker and quicker and faster and faster.
That's what I mean, we're atoms, like bouncing faster and faster.
I don't know how we slow things down, but an album like this, it will certainly help.
Um, you know, it, it, it demands attention in all the right ways.
It is not something that you skip through although that's what I'm doing right now in terms of the conversation but I have to um, what was the hardest one to write?
The hardest one to write for you personally in terms of where you went.
Okay, with a bit of altitude now just look down and realize that you covered some real ground on that.
Oh okay, so so they're split into the autumn winter spring, summer.
That's how i'm kind of imagining.
I was imagining them in my mind and the story in my mind, and it is literally seasonally broken down.
Yeah, as a track listing.
Yeah, So one of the hardest ones for me to write for a whole other reason, was the WhatsApp Shakespeare.
And that's purely because that song has had 12 or 13 completely different choruses.
You know when you're just like.
It was an old song Mike and I started years and years ago which was like super, super symmetrical, super simple.
Formulaic yeah, but like still had that vibe and i was just like my gosh, it took me so many.
It took that took so much effort.
I had to take months breaks from it for a lot of time, but i finally cracked it and i love it personally.
I think it's really funny, makes me laugh a lot.
Um and yeah, true story life right, uh and um.
So that was hard, maybe from a technical songwriting perspective.
It can't be a headline that it's a true story, Ray, when it's all a true story.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We should establish that as a benchmark of the whole album, right, right, right.
But hardest, hardest to write.
Hardest to write.
Can I redirect the question?
Yeah.
How was Writing Fields?
Do you know what?
Writing Fields was beautiful, actually.
Can you just describe for people listening the story?
There's a beautiful narrative through this record that's at the center of the purpose of why it exists.
So something so beautiful about this album is i've actually managed to get all my grandparents on this album in some way.
Yeah um, my grandma's the star of the show in like the intro and where is my husband?
Um, actually even my late grandfather who just passed away.
My swiss granddad is so deep and actually like brings me to tears whenever I hear the start of it.
But he was on his deathbed pretty candidly and he's Swiss German.
Swiss German is his mother language, but he speaks a little bit of English.
And it was my uncle and I was like to my uncle can you just get a voice note of granddad saying I'm not giving up yet?
And you know, he was, you know, Alzheimer's and dementia and stuff like that.
And he was just, you know, ready to go.
And my uncle managed to get like that five, five minutes worth of a voice note from him, but out of the middle and all the swiss german he said somewhere in the middle he just said i'm living, not giving up yet.
And i was literally like i'm sobbing right now and it was so deep and i cut it out and i put it.
That's his croaky, beautiful voice at the start of lifeboat.
And, by the way, can I just say this is the most beautiful thing.
But as someone again who is experiencing this, you cannot direct somebody who is existing in a dimensionally alternative space or searching for memories and elements.
You cannot direct them to say anything.
That was like so divine.
It was like, wow.
I was like, thank you God for giving me this gift.
That was the last thing I managed to, you know, and then he'd pass like maybe a week later.
So it was that and my nana and granddad at the start of that record too.
Honouring my grandparents is just the greatest gift this life has offered me a chance to honour my grandparents.
My grandma on the Brit Awards stage that is something Wow, you know.
And my granddad at Moncho Jazz Festival.
Honoring my grandparents for me is just yeah.
Anyway, that's a whole other hour's conversation.
But on this song specifically, my granddad, Michael, who is a songwriter, he's where I got it from.
I told a story at the Ivers a year or two back about he had a song stolen from him when he was a kid.
He used to write songs and send them to record labels.
So he would record on tape and he would write score the music.
He had a little rickety piano and, you know, proper, proper working class, middle England.
So zero, you know, connections or any kind of protection or anyone to help a talented boy make his dreams a reality.
And he used to send boxes to record labels down in London with the hopes that he would create something that you know someone would take and change his life.
Exactly.
And you know the story is so devastating that he wrote this song, in particular that for legal reasons, for the fact that I don't have a lawsuit to go up against blah blah, blah the machine to anyway, and the evidence is so yeah, so he'd recorded the tape and scored a specific song and send it in a box to a London record label.
Got a letter back.
But they kept the tapes.
And then anyway, a year and a half later, the song came out and was hugely successful.
And Has it ever come to light what the song is?
I know what the song is, but I just can't tell you on air because they would probably hit me with a flipping huge legal.
But he had to watch that song succeed everywhere.
Everyone said he was crazy.
Everyone he tried to tell, this was about me.
The song was about this, which was even based in his, where he like, it's so devastating.
And then in there, he gave up on his dream altogether.
He just gave up.
And it's devastating.
I remember we even sat together as a family one day and someone covered it on a TV show and he just left the room and he was just sobbing.
It was just deep. to say the least.
And I think it's interesting.
Maybe my advocacy or passion for songwriting stems probably deep, from what my family's even endured.
You know, the system is just so rigged sometimes.
So the most beautiful thing a granddaughter could do for granddad, so brilliant and talented, was for us to make a song together.
So i remember he came down to london and we booked a studio and we started chipping away at the song together and it was just absolutely magical.
Um, two of my band members, Danny and Liv the girls actually came in and started this song with me, which was really really beautiful.
I made a lot of this song with my band, these songs with my band.
And yeah, Grandad came down and it was just so medicinal and so beautiful.
And just, you know, even also reflecting on how busy we are, some of the lyrics are like, it's been so many months i haven't called there's always something more important on my to-do list um all these days just chasing everything i lack granddad seems i dwell on all i don't have instead of what i do and it's just actually this focus and then we're we live these lives and we're always like we need to get this next i need to climb this ladder i need to make this thing it's the great sacrifice it's the one thing you look back on when you've chased all of dreams and travel down so many roads the only thing that i regret is the time i didn't spend didn't spend or didn't make for those people that mean more than anything it's okay years with therapy and maturity will give you a chance to forgive yourself for that right but it's good to remind people that it's that it is part of the road map yeah And it's good to acknowledge it at certain stops on the road before you get to a point where you passed all those stops and didn't stop.
Yeah.
It's pretty important.
It really is.
Yeah, I feel that one deeply and I love that song very, very much and the story makes me love it even more.
God, there must be moments when you were in the thick of this before it turned around and you were like my God, I'm not going to go down the same road as my granddad.
I'm not going to to have followed in his footsteps and have this passion only to find the industry in my own way, different to his, but in my own way.
To be treating me this way must have just been so sobering for you.
It must have crossed your mind.
I think it did.
But do you know what's also so beautiful is the fact that maybe even, you know, my grandparents and everything that they've endured you know my grandma has a whole other insane story but everything they've endured you know they what we're doing now as a family is like just the greatest gift like my granddad could see that you know yeah his legacy his talent his his passion for songwriting his love for artistry passed down same with my grandma passed down and passed down and then you know you get to come and see like all your granddaughters just It's really so special.
You get a feeling that your granddad, who would rightfully feel some kind of way about even listening to music after going through the experience, has been able to reconnect in a deeper way, watching the spell get broken and seeing what you and your sisters have been able to achieve as a family.
And I think there's a specific moment at the Ivers.
The Iver Novellos is a very like, it's an awards for songwriters in the UK.
It's quite the prize giving, darling.
You go there and you get honoured by so many.
It's a really fucking fantastic award show.
It's one of the most inspirational nights.
When you win it, it's like, here we go.
Yeah, yeah.
I remember just attending for the first time, 18 or 19, and just being in floods of tears just seeing the stories of the people's faces that we don't know the pens behind some of the greatest creations of all time.
And it was in that room that I got to basically bring my granddad up on stage and be like this is my granddad, Michael.
He belongs in this room just as much as anyone here.
He's a songwriter.
The industry did him dirty, but he belongs in this room.
And that moment for him and for me and my family was just so powerful.
Um, and i i don't know how to quite explain it, but you know there was a thing all these different songwriters were coming up to my granddad and being like hello, or this happened, you know, to me actually, when i was, you know, in this kind of community that just welcomed him in for the first time, that he was just you know what's the word told yeah,
He didn't even get a chance to experience that.
He didn't even get a chance to experience or be given his credit, yeah.
So that was wow, that was such a, yeah.
It's so lovely that he got to experience that because it's been waiting for him.
And this is the thing that I really try to tell any new artist that's going through something, or even my friends who have had some success and are having a tough time.
I'm like, it's still waiting for you.
People are still waiting for you.
Yes.
You know, don't think that there's a couple of people who are disregarding what your ability is.
There's a whole group of people who are waiting for you to make something.
The time will come, like, even if it takes years.
And in my granddad's case, you wait, like, what, 40, 50 years.
Yeah, for there to be some kind of reward.
Yeah, but yeah it's, it's life, isn't it all right?
Life, all right.
Queen of patience, i'd imagine that you are impatient as well.
Yeah, i'm very, i mean, i'm very, i'm in, very.
What drives you crazy?
Um oh, What drives me crazy?
Mixing an album.
It's really hard.
Oh, it's fucking maddening.
It's really, it's brutal.
Finishing songs hard.
You know, I'm the person who gets so inside it that when I start to finally ask I'm in this position I start to finally ask for one more change, I start apologizing about it.
I'm not even just like, I need a change.
I'm like, I promise this is the last print.
Oh, without a doubt.
It's never the last print.
It's agonizing.
It's such a beautiful but agonizing process.
It's to the point where you put your headphones in and you're just squirming like oh, this isn't supposed to be like that.
I'm not sure I've ever felt more uncomfortable for reasons I cannot explain when I hear a mix that's off.
Oh, it's hard.
I will pause it.
I would just stop it, put it down and just like, I have to breathe in and out.
It's really like, the level of passion and detail is so intense.
This is what I was saying, you know, my vinyl is a first edition.
I really apologize.
I apologize before the vinyl's even out.
I am.
I apologize to anyone who's purchased the vinyl because you are getting the album.
It's not a fraudulent vinyl.
However, it is a first edition.
I want you to know the digital versions of some of these songs.
Some are quite different and you just need to embrace that because I tried my best.
You're saying there's some drums left off on the first violin edition.
It's really, some things are similar, yeah.
It was a journey and literally the deadline is the 20th.
It's going to make it collectible, that first edition.
Maybe there's a positive spin.
I want that one.
We're going to sell it as that, Zane.
It's a collectible edition.
Buy it now because it will be updated to the digital version.
It's going to be amazing.
The song I was just playing before features Al Green.
Oh my gosh.
As if I'm not going to talk about that.
Oh my gosh, the Reverend Al Green.
Oh my gosh, can we just Al Green, ladies and gentlemen?
Okay, so first of all, Al Green.
How do you even contact Al Green?
Because if anyone could contact Al Green to get Al Green to sing on their song, everyone would be doing it right.
But here he is on your record.
It was so we I managed to cross paths with his manager Matthew, who is this, like you know.
He's such a character like he's everything you would.
You know, just like
I don't know how to explain him.
Because they're the ones that often have been with these legends for a very long time.
He kind of like looks down as he talks and has these giant, you know huge glasses and like cares so much about music and is like so nice and somehow got into contact about the idea of me doing some writing for Al, and this was maybe a couple years back.
Crazy.
And so I was like, let's do whatever it takes to make this happen.
So I flew out to Memphis for a week.
Oh my God, that plane ride must have just been surreal.
It was insane.
I was like, I'm on the way to meet Al Green.
Like what, and I got there and actually first I got to spend two or three days writing with his band.
I need to shout out Mr Reverend Charlie Hodges, who is his organ player and he plays.
He played on all of the records.
I remember him sitting there and you know, love and happiness has such a like, such a distinct organ part.
And he was playing it for me.
I was literally losing my mind.
And this guy is literally like 90 years old.
Like this is his organ player.
He's literally 90 years old.
He is so cute and lovely and he's like good morning, miss ray.
You know how are you doing today?
Like just the most beautiful.
I just was in the room with these musicians in the rooms they recorded all these records.
Can you even get your head around Why it is what it is?
Because it's not the notes, it's not the physical hands, it's feel.
It's the soul, it's feeling right and it's very much that their voice is, their character being translated through an instrument.
And you bring these guys together and they just speak al green like, and you're just there like, oh my goodness, real time i'm.
It's making sense, the puzzle pieces that went into making some of the greatest soul records of all time.
So my mind is blown.
And meeting Al was very like, how are you?
I just didn't know what to say, really.
Yeah.
And it was just such an insane experience collaborating with him and his band on this song.
I knew that this was the song for him and if he was open to it, I was like this record and I was literally like if Al Green would be down to be on this record, then it's game over in my life.
And he loves it.
He loved it.
And yeah, his voice on this record is a joke.
And you set him up so beautifully as well.
You introduce him.
Because a lot of times, with these features or whatever you want to call them now, these guest appearances by really great artists that show up they, they show up and sometimes you're just like, oh man, i wish that more had been made of that and you really, like you set the scene.
You're like, oh no, what you're about to experience is not lost on me.
No, as ray the artist no, i know very, very clearly what.
What's going on here.
This is a seriously the honor i feel, the gratitude and the honor i feel that he is on this album of mine is.
I am, I'm just so humbled like I love this artist.
I love everything he's contributed to music.
I'm just like wow, i mean, he's just an absolute go-to every single year for time.
That's the definition of timeless.
You're right there.
Yeah, you're right there.
This music may contain hope is the name of the album.
That was the fastest 70 minutes i've spent in the company of 70 minutes.
That was quick.
Yeah, I'm so grateful for the music that you give us.
And I'm so happy to have had the chance to talk to you at this point in your journey.
And I'm looking forward to the next one already.
And I know you've got so much music to make over the course of your life.
And I think we should all feel really grateful that you're still doing it.
So thank you for that. your time today.
Thank you.
And thank you for the detail and for like really, really listening and really hearing.
It makes an artist feel seen.
So thank you for seeing me.
Yeah, I'm grateful.
Very grateful.
Thanks.
Thank you.
