Discussion keeps the world's turning.
This is Roundtable. Hello everybody, welcome to Roundtable.
Coming to you from Beijing, and we are coming to you live by the way, I'm her young, good to have you join us.
On today's show, August 10th marks this year's T.C.
Festival, also known as the Chinese Valentine's Day.
We'll see you all in on how Gen Z is navigating the world of love and marriage.
Lesson cover the social and psychological factors, driving their relationship preferences, and what it means for love in the digital age.
And we're sharing the happiness that let up our week.
Essentially, what's made us happy in Roundtable's happy place and it's going to be the Olympic edition today.
For this program, I'm joined by you should and Steve Hatherley in the studio first on today's show.
Let's dive into a fascinating topic perfect for this day of love and romance.
A new survey points to a counterintuitive shift among young people born in the night, while actually two thousands, or Gen Z, apparently they're eager to get married earlier, but won't settle for just anyone.
What does it say about their evolving views on love and marriage?
And before we dig any deeper, what do we know about this report?
So this is actually a report conducted by Just So Soul, which is the research arm of the social platform Soul app.
It cooperated with the Sociology Youth Research team at Shanghai University to publish a survey report on youngsters, opinions and trend on marriage and romantic relationship in 2024.
Can't wait to hear the results of this.
This is a topic that comes up every decade, doesn't it?
Maybe even every five years?
Maybe even every five months, who knows?
But yeah, it's always a fun topic to talk about.
It's always fun to hear the statistics because people's ideas change, what they want changes.
So here we are in 2024. So where do we start?
Definitely. We can see some of the interesting or new trends from the results.
Most of all, more independent opinions on marriage and love, those born in the 2000s.
We can say that there used to be some of the perceptions on marriage, which is it is seen as a task to meet the expectations of others.
But as, but now these people who born in the 2000s see this as an important way to enhance their self-worth and happiness.
So social media matters a lot.
It is playing a positive role in actually helping young people find love or even enter the marriage.
Yeah, finally some positive news about social media.
Social media has been under the spotlight for a while and it always seems like it's bad news, right?
How would social media have a positive influence on young people's views of marriage?
Seeing other people's posts online from their wedding days, things like that, I'm wondering.
Well, instantly I was thinking creating a platform for them.
But of course, aside from that, there are also other results and trends showing that, as Clown said, more young people are yearning for early marriage.
Maybe there's all the, you know, corresponding reasons for that.
Yeah, right. Makes sense because if they're online, they're seeing positive stories from other people, and that will influence their opinion too.
I'm also sorry to jump in for a second.
I somehow think we could go a bit deeper with that because maybe in a second.
Yeah. And also the most sort of conspicuous finding out of this survey is this early marriage thing because it just kind of defeats our general perception towards relationship and marriage and for actually a few generations in recent years, it seems like marriage has increasingly been pushed further down the road as, you know, people receive more education,
more years of education, for example.
And as a female, I can say that with the increasing levels of education, attainment, right in this country as well as, you know, once you've got your degree, you kind of want to work for a few years before you get engaged and hitch those kind of things.
So, you know, it's increasingly common for people to marry a bit later, but this survey seems to say differently.
Yeah, it is a bit of a surprising result, perhaps.
And I think if we look at different cultures around the world from maybe statistical reports from the 1950s or the 1960s, you'll see consistently that people got married younger and now here we are in 2024.
The number seems to be growing consistently.
In Canada, I looked it up in the last couple of years, the average marriage age is around 30.
In America, it was around 30 as well within a year or two.
And in South Korea as well.
So for me personally, I agree with you young.
This is a bit, this is a bit of a surprising report.
And from the results, it could be astonishing, you know, of striking phenomenon in the research data is that among those born in the 2000s, including males are more inclined to marry early.
Females percentage is 34% and males percentage is 20%.
A considerable number of them believe that 24 years old is the best time to get married, which means right after your college or graduation.
Yeah, for those that did go to college, what do you think?
I mean, what's your initial reaction to that?
I couldn't believe my eyes and ears and it seems like 24 is just so young.
It's so interesting that as time evolves, as society develops and our perceptions towards what you quote unquote supposed to do at a certain age kind of shifts as well.
And well, 100 years ago, I suppose if you're not married when you're 24, then especially if you're a woman, then gone are the chances for you.
Well, 100 years ago, 2024 was probably super, super late, even.
I guess so. You should have like three kids by then.
But now, no, it's not like that anymore.
No, and it's always fascinating to me when we talk about, you know, the appropriate age to get married, what's the answer to that question?
Is it 30? Is it 24? Is it 43?
Is it 62? I think it's up to the individual.
We can find average statistics from countries around the world that kind of let us know what people are doing on a year by year basis.
But on an individualistic basis, I don't think there is any appropriate number.
If you feel that you're ready, if you feel that that's what you want in your life at that time, and you happen to be 24, go for it.
Yes. And you're preaching to the choir, my friend.
I think this is definitely, I hope more people can sort of break the mold of thinking, oh, I must do this at this age.
And for females, a lot of us, for years, we feel that pressure.
It's like, well, because there is a biological clock ticking for women more than for men, especially if you want to have kids.
And then there's just this intense pressure on you as you approach 30, and for some, I suppose, well-intentioned parents, or I guess a super organized, well-planned people for their lives, once they turn 25, it's almost like, okay, should be looking for a future partner.
This is something on the agenda.
And then you only give yourself a few years, a couple of years time, and then it's like, and it's 30, oh, so scary, the big 3.0.
And if you're not married or having kids, or it's not happening for you just yet, and then it is so much pressure.
And I've seen people, including myself, I think, overcoming that hump, I think deserves major pat in the back, because it was really hard, but ladies and guys out there trust me.
If you pass that age, and then actually, and if you take care of yourself in your life, things are okay.
Yeah. Things are okay. There are factors in terms of age, right?
Because biologically, I mean, when you're getting married, maybe people will think about having a kid.
And then, biologically, there are some certain ages that is perfect for having kids.
So people will naturally think about the age issue.
But more importantly is that I think that is affected by the whole family backgrounds or the social environment that these are all the factors that influencing people's idea on whether they should get married or not.
Because human are social animals.
So they may hugely affected by their surroundings.
That was, I think, in. Can I ask you, this is a private question.
So you don't have to answer this if you don't want to.
But do you feel where you are in your life as a young citizen of China and Beijing?
Do you feel any sort of societal pressure to, like you're supposed to be getting married soon now that you're working professionally?
I wouldn't say it is a kind of pressure, but there is an environment that a lot of people even my age are.
So basically, Jen Zee. Yes.
And you will naturally see, oh, people are having different live paths with me.
And you will consider maybe, oh, what should I do or what shouldn't I do?
So something like that.
I think this is one place where China and Canada kind of cross paths, culturally speaking, because and correct me if I'm wrong about China.
But in Canada, it's very similar, you know, what you're expected to do from a societal point of view.
You go to school, you graduate high school, then you immediately go to university, you graduate university, you get a job after that, you're supposed to get married, then you're supposed to have children.
Is the Western culture blueprint for life, right?
And I think from, of course, I've only been here for a short time, but it seems like it's very similar here.
Not only here, it seems like it's very similar in many parts of the world.
See, I used to have this blind expectation that in Western societies, it's all individual istic.
And then, you know, there's so much respect for the individual choice.
And everybody, my true own business, stop poking your nose over other people's stuff.
And you know, just enjoy what you do, what you have and leave everybody else to their own devices, basically.
But maybe there are some things that are shared across cultures.
Yeah, no, you're still, you're still right.
You know, my sister didn't get married until she was in her early 40s.
She was a hotel executive.
She had pursued that career for a long time.
Then she decided to give up that career, go back to school, become a public school teacher.
She focused on herself for a long time.
And when she was ready, then she got married.
And that was in her early 40s.
Not one time as far as I know, did my parents ever say, hey, hey, hey, clock is ticking.
Where's the guy? Where's the guy?
Not once, I don't think.
So I think there is part of that.
But still society in general, we do, we do still have that expectation.
And here in China, it's a very complicated situation because you have in cities, as opposed, where there isn't such a close or tight net community, unless you are from that city, then I suppose your family is there, then it's a bit different.
But in big cities, everybody's mining their own business.
Nobody knows your history.
Nobody knows whether you achieved a glorious past or was a complete train wreck or whatsoever.
It doesn't matter. And then everybody's just building their own lives.
And boyfriend, girlfriend, whatsoever, doesn't matter.
But if you are also very much depends on your family, I suppose you're a immediate family.
Also depends on how close you want to stay with your original family.
And if you've got your mom and dad nagging at you all the time, of course, that's going to be super stressful for some people.
But it varies. And in smaller cities and in rural towns, then there's still very much the old fashioned, ancient centuries old Chinese family framework, very much alive.
And then if you're in a small town, and I suppose when you see your peers all getting married at 26 or something like that and quickly popping out kids, then yes, you're going to feel the pressure.
That's the same in Canada too.
I'm sure in America and France and Italy and wherever in the world, and we talked about social media before, not only your friends, but when you see on social media people in that same age group, then you probably start to feel that pressure yourself.
Right. And for this survey results to turn out this way, I have some major questions actually because it's so surprising, I think, for many of us who look at these dating trends that such in this country.
And then looked up that apparently there were close to 300, sorry, 3,500 valid questionnaires being collected.
This is very old fashioned.
I thought app collecting data and coming out with a survey, they would be mining their own data and look at a far bigger pool of survey respondents as well as looking at their behavior online, but this is not necessarily that.
So maybe a little bit of question mark to the findings.
What were some of the reasons that the respondents gave for their attitudes about wanting to get married at a young age?
Of course, we've talked a little bit about it actually and it is also reflected from the results.
We can see factors that affect young people's fear of marriage and maybe delayed marriage are also shifting towards their personal growth, such as the impact on career or education.
We talked about it. This indicates that young people in China are increasingly valuing more of their personal development and self actualization before considering their marriage or love choices.
I think I kind understand this phenomenon.
One reason is that many of my friends, as I said, still see marriage as an inevitable part of their life.
Most of them still look forward to desire marriage.
However, they have some concerns at the moment, such as housing and economic financial problems and it affects their plan of marriage.
So I was thinking maybe young people have always been the idea of, okay, we need to get married.
But there are something that is making the plan pull off.
There's something that troubles me every time these kinds of survey results or these types of stories come up.
I can reference a blog post from CNN that I saw just a few days ago and it was talking about the fact that Gen Zs in America are very idealistic about their ideas of soulmates and romance and things like this.
It was the same thing in that reference about wanting to put self-care at the top of the priority list, taking care of yourself, prioritizing your education or your career before you get married.
Here's my problem. Why do we have to say I can only be an individual before I get married.
I can only prioritize my education before I get married.
I can only take care of myself, self-love before I get married.
Why can't you do that after you get married?
To me, when we hear these reports, it feels like we're saying, well, enjoy your life because when that ring goes on the finger, it's over.
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I agree with that, and I think it's far better to have stable parents that not, especially if you're raising kids.
But I wonder really in real life how many people are out there thinking, Oh, I'm going to grow into a mature, wonderful, full adult, and then I'll start dating and start looking for marriage or relationships.
I doubt that's really what happens.
A lot of it, maybe after the first couple of years after the first couple of years, after you've started your career, I think people are open to options.
It's just, have you met the one?
And I mean, if you haven't, then you might as well work on yourself, you know, do all these things of self-care or whatnot.
And also, I just say one should never stop doing that in the whole duration of one's lifetime.
But I don't necessarily agree with this idea that people are always so carefully planning the different stages in life.
It's more like, yeah, you're looking, but if you haven't seen that person pop up or if you haven't really been in a relationship that feels that we're truly compatible, that we can hold hands and march into the next chapter of life, then what do you do?
So maybe there is more of this fluid kind of situation.
What do they say? The expression is, you find your true love wood and you least expect it or you find your true love when you're not even looking.
And if you're always looking, then you're putting too much pressure on the situation and it makes it harder.
I forget what the exact quote was, but it was something along those lines.
And these, sorry, and these days, apparently people can meet their love or this potential, you know, Mr.
Wright or Mrs. Wright through a social media.
And that's why social media and messaging apps are such a big deal these days for these young people.
And it seems like you shouldn't.
If you're not on these platforms, then maybe your chances of meeting someone is super slim.
But I would say they are providing more chances that it didn't they?
So social media platforms have indeed provided people with more, I think, ways to meet others.
In the past, we were more accustomed to meeting our significant others through social interactions, like offline activities maybe or at work.
However, in recent years, there are a significant increase in social platforms in China, in terms of numbers.
And even across different types, you know, for, for example, some are focusing on, you're just knowing people directly, which I mean, these kind of swipe, right swipe, left things.
Some are focusing on knowing each other based on common interests.
And I heard that some, you know, music streaming companies are also developing dating apps.
So basically they are trying to create more opportunities or even more specific special needs for people who, who would like to get a relationship.
I get it like music streaming sites because then there's a common interest, right?
You can talk about music in the beginning, your shared love of music.
Yeah, that's kind of a cool idea.
That's an interesting thought.
I think for a lot of people looking for love or, you know, a relationship or just meeting someone, finding that common interest at least have something to talk about initially.
I think that's really great.
And a lot of people do bond around one common interest or music taste, movie taste, or even baking stuff.
And you can find your people on the internet so easy, but hanging out with them in real life in person, that's a completely different ball game.
The story that I talked about just a few minutes ago written by a Gen Z individual said that the pandemic had a lot to do with young people's views on not only dating, but just social interaction in general for two years.
Nobody hung out with each other.
Nobody talked face to face.
Nobody met at a music festival or, you know, got together for a coffee at a coffee shop to talk about your life goals or whatever the case may be.
And it got to the point, according to this story, according to the person who wrote this, that it became weird to see somebody face to face and have a date with someone.
And then because of that, the focus went back to me to self-care.
You know what? Forget this.
It's too much pressure.
You know, Gen Z invented the term situation.
Right. That's between the talking stage and an actual relationship.
Like there's something going on.
Oh, in Chinese, we have a term that's similar to that.
I may. A little bit like that.
But it could be less positive.
Something like just stringing this person on or not committing.
And the stage of you two have feelings for each other, but you haven't settled to be couples.
And also it's not necessarily with the situation.
Sometimes it's just stringing a person along.
It doesn't necessarily mean that, oh, you know, I'm really that interested.
And you know, and flirting.
Yeah. So anyway, so it could be both both ways.
And what was also thinking that it may contribute to, you know, the.
I mean, it is reflecting the acceptance of the use of dating app in China, I would say.
And where people are also, you know, turning to the Internet to expand their social circles and meet new and different people.
Because back then, I think Chinese people still seem to have some prejudices on dating apps.
Yeah, it existed in the West a while ago, but I think that stigma is totally gone.
That's so interesting.
See, that's kept me from these platforms for a decade now.
And I'm still not on there.
Yeah, I say go for it. Who cares?
Oh, the thing is, my friend told me the other day.
She saw her, like boss's boss on the same dating app.
And other and also colleagues because the app would push people in the vicinity of you to your account.
Well, just don't go on this radio stations dating app and you'll be okay.
And by the way, if you're listening, we don't have a dating app that was a joke.
And also that was my friend.
Yes, well, what better topic to discuss on Tsi-si, right?
The Chinese Valentine's Day and for all of you out there looking for love, good luck, and hold on to the person that you like, please.
