This isRoundtable. Pregnancy and childcare make up an important part of family and sociallife.
Yet the majority of the input and impact often come down to mothers who sometimes have to hold their careers to provide care for thechildren.
What happens when they wish to return to theworkplace?
Hello, I'm Laming and this isRoundtable.
Today with New Holy and BrutonYates, we look at measures aimed at making things easier for mothers who make their way back to theworkforce.
So there's a term in Chinese that's designated especially for positions that the society are creating for mothers who want to go back to the Korea and that is Ma MaGang, which literally translates into motherspositions.
And so who are taking these measures to make it easier for these mothers who would like to go back to theworkforce?
Well, before diving into the details of Ma Ma Gangitself, actually I think it's important to make the distinction between Mama's position and the kind of jobs that moms decided to go back to and they want to go back to and they can go backto.
Because with the development ofsociety, oftechnology, actually a lot of works can be done through the help of internet and long distance and you do not really have to be on thatpost.
You just have todeliver.
Forexample, if a mom after several years of taking care of her kid and decided to pick on a little bit oftask, she can definitely be an artificial intelligencephotographer.
She can become a video editor and taking on differenttasks.
She can become a social mediaoperator,bloggers,someone, even accountant jobs are sometimes able to be done by someone out of thecompany.
So these are for the kind of moms who can actually do these relatively speaking sophisticated jobs with this kind of technology and this kind ofskills.
But are these specific jobs linked to moms that have are returning to work or can it also be applied to moms that have always been just involved in motherhood and have never workedbefore?
That's the interesting point because all these jobs I have listed are actually open toanybody.
Anybody who wanted to work with a relatively flexible schedule who wantedto, forexample, stay at home once in a while or just home work and work athome, these are all the jobs that are open tothem.
Yeah. I guess something that needs to be taken into consideration with these sorts ofjobs, those also the onboarding process and the training process because even though they are very flexible jobs for people that require them because of the technology used and some of the new nature of thesejobs, they probably is a fairly complicated onboarding process that hopefully is being taken care of aswell.
Exactly. That is why these jobs are not specifically the mama's position we are talking abouttoday.
The mama's positions are open to the kind of moms who lack such high and sophisticated skills who do not know how to open an account and started to have viewers andfollowers, tens ofthousands,one, all of a sudden who maybe even have to conduct a manual labor work in a factory which would require them to be on the post in the factory at certain amount oftime.
But having no flexiblehours.
Exactly. And that is why places likeGuangdong, Guangxi as well as Shandong Province started to roll out these mama'spositions.
Forexample, let's take Guangdong forexample, it is promoting the mother'sposition, employmentmodel, throughout theprovince.
Ju Hai held a job fair for such positions and the manufacturing and production workshops in Zhongshan City are staffed according to the all-round worker mother's positionmodel.
If a staff at mother's position takesleave, the vacancy will be filled by an all-round worker and actually the moms are encouraged or at least granted the ability to leave the post if they have for example a parents meeting in a kindergarten or in a primaryschool, they are allowed to get on the post a bit later than the full-time workers because they would have to send their kids toschool.
And also they are allowed to leave the post a bit earlier because they have to take theirschool, take their kids from theschool.
This isinteresting. It's not like all of a sudden women in China are starting to havebabies.
Imean, women have been given birth to babies forcenturies,millennia, thousands of years and they have to balance work and life andfamily.
They have alwaysbeen,well, it required to do that balance formillennia, thousands ofyears.
But what we are talking about now is this new tendency for certain preferential policies or treatments to be rolled out in consideration of thechallenges, new challenges that women will have to face given the changes in society and the workforce that we are goingthrough.
SoBrandon, anything that you can share with regard to policies that people of your country might come upwith, because back in mychildhood, I remember there being preferential treatments doled out to women who arepregnant.
Forinstance, in myschool, teachers who are pregnant might get asubstitute.
We might all of a sudden become being formed that there is a new teacher coming in to teach yourmath, that kind ofthing.
So it was always being up to the employers or the companies or the institutions discretion to give or kind of treatment to women who become pregnant or who want to take a period of time and being focused on their family and theirchildren.
But then we are now looking atsomething, some newchanges.
It's the same kind of changes being seen in SouthAfrica.
Notreally. Imean, the standard policy is just maternityleave.
So that's kind of the universal policy that's used across the Africa with regardsto, youknow, pregnancy andmoms.
And then with regards to workingmoms, I think it really comes down to individualscenarios.
So thereisn't, I would say widespread policy that applies to workingmoms.
I think it's all uniquesituations.
So it depends on the industry that a certain mother wants to work in or has worked in and wants to return toor, youknow, has been a working mom for some time and then realizes that she needs to make certain changes to accommodate changes in her child'slife, forexample.
So it's very dependent on each individual and whatever industry they arein.
But going back to what we were discussing with regardsto, youknow, working moms in China and that sort ofthing.
And, youknow, the fact that moms have been giving birthfor, youknow, centuries and thousands of years inChina, etcetera.
I guess something that might also apply with regards to unique situations being created for working moms in China might also be a way to appeal topeople, particularly women that having children shouldn't be at the expense ofworking.
So I think you might have a situation in China where a lot of prospective moms might not want to become moms because they highly value their careers and they want to be independent and they want towork, etcetera, etcetera, and maybe that had an impacton, youknow, the birth rates inChina.
So I guess this is also a great way to let moms know that there are policies in place and companies also take note of situations wherewe, moms want towork, but they also want to be the best moms that theycan.
So it's great to hear that companies and institutions and certain industries are making ways for moms to be the best moms that they canbe, but also have the opportunityto, youknow, supply theworkforce, which I think is a positive thing for a variety ofreasons.
Certain changes can be observed throughout societies and throughoutcultures, forinstance, the opportunity or the increased opportunity for education and employment in the society forwomen.
That's, Ithink, is an ongoing progress throughout the society and around theworld.
But there are certain specific changes that I think cannot beignored, forinstance, the changes in the family planningpolicy, whereas perhaps decadesago, one couple could only have one child and that means the amount of time and efforts devoted to childcare could be a lotless, a lotminimum, as comparedto, let'ssay, after policy haschanged.
Now that parents are encouraged to have more than twobabies, depending on where you live and what kind of conditions you'rein.
So at such aweekend, expect families and moms to spend a lot more time and not more energy aren't childcare and that'ssuch, this would make a lot of parents making the decision that perhaps it's worthwhile to have one staying at home and be a four-time mom or a four-time dad kind ofthing.
So it's become more prevalent as comparedto, let'ssay, before the family planning policy waschanged.
Yes, it's definitelyvery, very different inlife, in different lifestage, that's what youwant, because I am currently raising a one and half year old and sometimes I do wish I can stay at home and stay with himforever, we're notforever, just forNTU, he's around three and he can go to kindergarten and I would have sometime, maybe at thatstage, I wouldthink, going back to the workplace would be a goodidea.
And I might realize that is hard for me to go back because of the three-yeargap, because of the fast development ofsociety, but I would do want to go back and actually according to asurvey,90% of full-time moms said that they wanted to go back and find another job after their kids turnedthree, not only because they want to make money or support thefamily, but because they want to realize theirself-worth, they want to stay connected with the society and of course they want to ease the financial burdens at the sametime.
And I think when it comes to raising akid, when it comes to being amom, being a dad and also being someone who is contributing to yourcompany, it's a complicatedissue, which is why there are a lot of differentpolicies, a lot of different solutions and a lot of different options for moms outthere.
Andtoday, the one that we're talking about the MAMA's position is in myopinion, a little bit more specific to those moms who have already stayed at home becoming a full-time mom for a certain period of time who do not have relativelylong, relativelylong,yes, like three years or even longer thanthat.
Longer than the maternity leave forsure.
Much longer thanthat. And also they would find probably a little bit hard to have all the tools they need or the technology or even the knowledge or experience they need to easily find a newjob.
And maybe some of them are even more towards themenu, labor kind ofindustry.
And for those industries or for those kind ofmoms, these different governments in different provinces started to roll outpolicies, allowing them to work flexibly in afactory, allowing them to learn on the post and also providing them with the training sessions that theyneed.
And creating these moms positions or MAMA's jobs for these ladies so that they can get back to the society relativelypainless.
You mentioned a few key words like flexible working hours and opportunity to get on the jobtraining, sort of as a buffer for anyone who's being out of the workforce for a considerable amount of time to pick up whatever skills that's required currently in theworkforce.
So there are two key wordshere, that's what these companies orregions, regional governments are trying toachieve, given a booster for moms who want to restart theircareer.
What other benefits or wafer do you think that we could expect from these MAMA's jobs or special jobs formoms?
One thing for sure would be a proper social ladder for moms to climb upto,because,well, climb upwith, because we've already mentioned some of these jobs have something to do with menu labor work and they're not paid that much compared to the full-timeworkers, because we talked about flexibility and they are already enjoying all thesepolicies, so they're not paid as much as the full-timeworkers.
And also for those who did not grasp the kind of training or for those places that are not providing the moms with these kind of on-jobtrainings, it's possible that the moms would find it hard to get promoted to further develop their career paths and that is definitely something I think should beaddressed.
Yeah, Imean, for sure with regards to thetraining, but I think with the payissue, I don't think that we can hope to see that flexible our moms that are working can then be paid at a similar level to full-timeworkers, but that beingsaid, it doesn't mean that their wages can't beincreased, so I think that is definitely something that can be lookedat.
And I definitely think that the training and onboarding process for some of those positions is incrediblyimportant.
I know formyself, whenever I have entered a newjob, regardless of actually of my level of expertise or experience in thatjob, if I have a very thorough onboardingprocess, I'm a lot more happier in my position and I'm also a lot more autonomous and independent in myposition.
So I think looking at thatprocess, particularly with regards to some of the higher tech and more modernpositions, I think that's something that definitely needs to be addressed and isvery, veryimportant.
Well,also, if you look at the type of positions and also the kind of target that these positions are meantfor, Imean, sometimes we're talking about women who may have left the workforce for longer than threeyears, sometimes eight to nineyears.
And things can really change in that timeperiod.
There's can really change a lot over that prolonged period oftime.
I wonderwhy, Imean, certainly is individual freedom for any one to make that decision to stay away from the workforce for a long period of time for whateverreason.
And aboveall, it's a noble cause to stay away and be dedicated to childcare is for the benefit of the family and also for the benefit of the society as awhole.
Butagain, why do we have to wait until that long to really start thinking about coming back towork?
Imean, whycan't, is there anything else that we can do to make the process a lot more easythan,oh,gee, it's been 10 years since I was lastemployed.
What about other services and facilities that we can create so thatmothers, since they already have the ambition to go back to theworkforce, can take actions a lot earlier thanthat, forinstance, the lack of social support or service support in terms of maybe daycareservice, kindergartenservice, that certainly is also an aspect causing people to delay the decision to go back to theworkforce.
It could beeconomic, it could be trust in thissociety, it could be a scarcity of the provision of theservice.
I don'tknow. I think it's important that we look into that part aswell.
Yeah, I think a lot of those issues definitely can beaddressed, but I suppose the main considering factor in a lot of those decisions with regards to women deciding to return to work after six months or nineyears, I think it's all got to do with personalpreference.
Yes. I think a lot can be done with regards to the side that you're mentioning to facilitate and make a return to work as appealing as possible in a variety ofways.
I think ultimately it will come down to each mother's preference in terms of when they feel they are ready to return to theworkplace.
In themeantime, if we talk about the number of babies in China that are between the age of zero tothree, actually by the end of2023, there are approximately 30 million infants and toddlers aged that between zero and three in our country and with over one third of families having a demand for nurserycare.
And in first-year cities likeBeijing,Shanghai,Guangzhou, thesecities, more than two-thirds of families need at suchservice.
And apparently that need is not being fully met justyet.
And if you take a look at the number in othercountries, forexample, in Europeancountries, that number is also around30%, so30% of kids around that age are innurseries.
And also inother, actually in also Europeancountries, but North Europeancountries, that rate is almost60%.
Soyeah, a lot of kids are in these facilities being taken careof, socializing with otherkids.
But it seems like there's a difficulty with some countries keeping up with the demand for some of those nurseryfacilities.
Imean, that's definitely been an issue in SouthAfrica, Ithink, aswell, where the demand for child care is not keeping up with the amountof, youknow, so the actual child care services are not keeping up with thedemand.
And I think a lot of that has to do with just facilities being available and also compensation forteachers, youknow, from that age group all the way to a university level is quite low in SouthAfrica.
I don't know if that's an issue around the rest of theworld.
I think it's an issue in theStates.
I think Europe's a little bit better with regards to compensatingeducators, but in SouthAfrica, it's definitely a massiveproblem.
Well, inChina, I think these factors matter aswell.
If you take a look at thenumbers,actually, most families prefer public or nonprofit child careinstitutions.
Because they're moreaffordable.
Yes, and also in theway, trustworthy.
And but comparativelyspeaking, the parents being more regulated than your privateplaces.
That's a lot ofparents'beliefs.
Actually, the private ones are quitewell, quite good aswell.
Butagain, like Isaid, they prefer publicones.
And profit-driven institutions or let's say private institutions account for around80% of thetotal, which is going to be a little bit hard for those who prefer the public ones tochoose.
Andalso, if you take a look at thecost, service show that in2021, the average monthly fee for full day child care was around 2,700 yen with cities in Beijing and Shanghai can be around 7,000 yen permonth.
So it's around 2,000 for public and 7,000 forprivate?
No,no,no. The average is around2,700.
Oh, Isee. But in biggercities, it can be abit...
It comes up to7.Exactly.
Which is why it can be a little bit costly forfamilies.
And we're talking about the kind of families that Limeing has mentioned that hastwo, even threekids.
Then,well... It becomes anissue.
It's actually more economical to stay athome, to have one parent stay athome.
It's sending all of your kidsto...
Exactly. If the job of the mummy's position or not paying more than6,000...
Or daddy'sposition. Or not paying more than 6,000 year-roundmonths, then it is economically more valuable to have one person working at home to make these costs goaway.
But maybe that's alsowhere...
That's maybe where the public sector with regards to child care comes into it aswell.
Maybe that's something that needs to beaddressed, maybe demand is also exceedingsupply.
So maybe that is also something that can additionally be addressed to also encourage moms to return to theworkplace.
So that's definitely something that can be lookedup.
And the other underlying issue that we have somehow touched upon in our deliberate use of mummy'sjob, and daddy'sjob, and then four-time mum and four-timedad, is that we are now currently using the term mummy's position or mummy's job in the literalsense.
But does it really have to be thatway?
Is it really thatrigid?
Imean, are these positions open only to mummies who have left aworkforce?
Could daddy's who have left a workforce also apply for thesepositions?
And is the society ready to broaden the concept and then really be more open to the changes in the way people organise their work and lifebalance?
Well, I'm not really sure about thesociety, but definitely I am very ready for daddy's to come into theplay, taking care of thekids.
Butapparently, mum's post is a position specifically designed for workingmothers, family useto...
Thediscrimination. Mainly used to recruit women within the legal working age who have the obligation to support child under the age of 12 yearsold.
And the working hours and management models are relativelyflexible, making it convenient for the employee to balance work andchildcare.
Andyes, I also think it should be a childcareposition.
But I guess the government and as well as companies are trying to avoid the misunderstanding that this position is hiring people who wantto...
Just want to return towork.
No,no,no, because if you call it child carepositions, then people might misunderstood it as a position that requires them to take care of kids from thejob.
But if you call it mum'sposition...
It's morespecific. It's morespecific.
But I do think they should change the policy a little bit and involve dads who have been devoted to taking care of kids and wanting to go back to theworkplace.
I think there might be a bit of a need for that in Xi Jinping'sshow.
I think I've mentioned thisbefore.
No,honestly, because I've seen somany...
Whenever I see a Porsche or Lamborghini or Ferrari drivingaround, it's always been driven by a youngwoman.
So I think that there are plenty of women out there in the workforce in this area doing incrediblywell.
So maybe there are some daddies out there that are being looked after by some super successfulmummies.
And Xi Jinping is the district district of Beijing where our office islocated.
And then for Brandon has observed quite a lotof...
Don't come hunt us down if you disagree with ouropinions,please.
Now that you know where weare.
I understand this is a position designed by the society to encourage morechildbirth.
Imean, certainly the reluctance on the part of womento...
Especially educated women to have more babies is causing thepopulation.
It's one of the reasons why population replacement is a lot smaller than it wasbefore.
So I understandthat. But then goingforward, I think it's high time that the society took intoaccount...
Consideration a lot morechanges.
Forinstance, we are soon going to enter a stagewhere...
Well, parents of single child families are going to get old and their care might need extra consideration aswell.
