Peter Bol - 800m & 3 Free Haircuts｜The Imperfects

My name is Bridget, and I produce The Imperfects.

I grew up in Australia, but my ancestors arrived by boat in search of gold during the 1800s.

What I've come to realise is that they arrived on land that had been cared for by the Indigenous peoples of this continent for millennia.

It was, and always will be, Aboriginal land.

We at The Imperfects would like to acknowledge the Wurundjeri people of the Kulin Nation as the traditional owners of the land on which this podcast was recorded, and we extend our respects to their elders past and present.

At The Imperfects, my job is to create a space for important stories to be heard.

And in doing so, I pay homage to a rich history of storytelling cultivated by the world's oldest living culture.

We're all imperfect, and on this podcast, I'll be chatting with a variety of interesting people who are willing to make themselves vulnerable by sharing their own struggles and imperfections.

Twenty years ago, like I was an Australian citizen, twenty years on, not only they see their kid and someone that looks like them representing Australia, but seeing Australia get behind them.

And I was like, wow, like, we can really open doors here.

It's like, this is why we did all these movements.

I'm Hugh van Carlenberg from The Resilience Project.

And I'm Ryan Shelton from My Mum.

And I'm Josh from Hugh's Mum.

And this is The Imperfects.

Well, I thought we were here today talking about running, because Peter Boll is going to be here.

But now we arrive, Josh, and Hugh has in front of him some props.

It's a mystery. Just a couple of pieces of paper and some pens.

Is this an arts and craft day?

I'm out. Have I jumped the gun here?

Did you want to build up to this?

No, not at all. The props aren't that important.

In fact, they're far from...

Do it any more. Well, yeah, because Peter Boll was one of my all time favourite chats for obvious reasons I love running.

And the non -obvious reason is we heard...

I've never heard his full story told so honourably in one hit before.

I've never really heard him talk about the drug scandal he went through, or say the whole thing was wonderful.

And I cannot wait to get to that.

Before we do, I... Last night, went to...

As I often do, I went to a sauna.

I love going to the sauna, as you guys know.

Is that pause for applause?

No. How long was staying there for?

I was about 15 minutes last night.

And I often... I don't know how you guys feel, but I often go into a sauna.

I don't really want to talk to people.

Like if I don't know them, I don't want to talk.

I'd just like to be by myself.

Yeah. Because connection is the last thing you want to do for happiness.

That's what I've heard.

Stay to yourself. Keep to yourself.

And so I went in there, end of a long day, I had the kids to myself yesterday.

No, pause for applause, but I...

You're looking at the wrong guy.

You should look at Josh.

I had a cool weekend.

And I went in there, and there were three young men, I'd say mid -twenties.

Mm -hmm. And one was on his phone.

And I thought... I was very much stereotyping, but I thought, I'm not sure we have a lot of comments, so I'm just going to really stick to the corner here and put my head down.

Mm -hmm. And one girl, he used phone, and the other guy says to him, you want Tinder or what?

And he said, no, man, BBL.

And my ears picked up, and I thought, oh, he's a cricket fan.

Mm -hmm. I'm referring to the big bash leg, of course, which everyone knows is BBL.

Mm -hmm. Everyone. So I thought, I'd like to talk to these guys.

I haven't talked about cricket in a while.

And I put my head up, and the guy goes, what do you mean?

He goes, just Google image BBL.

And I went, oh, there's an app for that.

There's an app. You can watch all the BBL you want, videos, everything.

I thought this was leading to a really dark place.

He goes, is it really?

And I went, yeah, it's awesome.

And then the guy, this other guy turns to me and goes, you a fan of BBL?

And I went, ah. It's over a bit quickly for mine, to be honest.

But, yeah. Oh, cool.

Now just - Give me the reveal.

I would like you guys - It's going too slow.

I just, I would like you guys to write down, I thought it was big bash leg, clearly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. 2020 cricket in Australia, the big bash leg, all summer.

Can you guys write down what you think BBL might stand for?

You write whatever you want, and we can beep it out.

We can beep it out and we can blur it.

I'm just interested to know.

Because I didn't know - I've got something in my head.

I don't want to write it down.

Well, if it's horrific, you don't need to write it down.

But we can beep it out, we can blur it.

Just don't look at Ryan's.

Don't think of it yourself.

Because I'll reveal in a second, but there's still more to this conversation.

I'm like, we're talking cricket here.

I mean, this is great.

And then the guy said to me, he says, so he says to me, he says, you like BBL?

And I went, it's over a bit quickly, to be honest with the BBL.

I pissed themselves laughing.

One guy gives me a fist pump.

And I was like, these guys love the cricket.

Yeah, this is awesome.

He says - He said, how much you love it?

And I went, to me, summer, I just have it on every night on the TV.

Kids go to bed, I'm sticking it on every night on the TV.

He goes - This is gonna be great.

He goes, really? He goes, he's mad and goes, you haven't done that before?

Watch it on the TV?

And he goes, yeah, I'm not gonna talk about here.

And I went, well, I know it's not test cricket, but it's like, it's good.

Like there's, it's pretty awesome stuff.

Before we go any further.

Yeah. Can I just, not without revealing, anyone in the room know what this is?

No. No, okay. Okay.

Well, I feel like a few people listening right now know exactly what it is, and they're horrified for me.

Anyway, I put my head down, I was like, are we talking about the same thing here?

Because their responses are really, this guy goes to be - He goes, like, how often are we talking?

Like, how often are you watching it?

Like, every night in the summer.

It starts, I think it starts like first of December, and we're going all the way through to, like, Feb.

And he goes, what do you mean?

I mean, after the kids are in bed, it's just on the TV.

Are you sus at this point?

And like, why are they, what's, is there a weird - Well, you know when you're just sorting, you're so hot and you're not really thinking properly.

You're just like, gotta get through this heat.

But anyway - Sounds like it's about to get hotter, but yeah.

Anyway, this guy's going through his phone frowning.

I was like, just look up the App Store BBL.

It's just there. You know, I can't, I can't find it.

I can't find anything.

And I was like, no, I promise it's there.

It's like videos, everything.

It's stats. And he goes, okay.

Anyway, he puts his phone away.

They all look a bit weird.

And then two of them leave.

And it's just me and one guy.

And I was just replaying the conversation with my head going, it's not what I think it is.

And I turned to the guy and said, Hey mate, what's BBL?

He goes, you know, Brazilian butt left.

I went, what? Brazilian butt left?

He goes, it's like an operation that women can get to make their bottoms look really big.

So they look really thin, but their bottoms are really big.

I clearly don't know.

I feel like we should talk about this heaps, because I feel like we'll all know a lot about it.

So in my head, I'm going, what did I say?

Do you like BBL? Yeah, I do, but it's over way too quickly for me, was my first answer.

They give me a high five.

What's that even mean?

I think that's on them.

What do they think you were talking about?

Maybe if I was involved with a woman who'd had a BBL, it wouldn't take it.

It would be a quick encounter.

Like the operation of the BBL doesn't last, they have to get re -operated on too quickly.

Maybe that's what you're talking about.

Maybe the quality of the surgery is not to your liking.

Doesn't last long enough.

But then I also told them that I watch it every single night on television.

I just put it on the television.

I don't know what exactly.

Pretty horrific watching BBL surgeries.

Every night. I'm just picturing this guy somewhere where he is right now, going, where's this app that bloke was talking about?

I'm sure that he was desperately looking for the app.

That's strange. Well, he was in the sauna looking at that.

Anyway, what would you put down out of interest?

Betty Boop's legs. Who's Betty Boop?

You know Betty Boop?

I don't know Betty Boop.

I'm not mad at the name of her.

Betty Boop is like an old cartoon character.

She's like a sexy cabaret cartoon.

You don't know Betty Boop in the room?

Yeah, Betty Boop. Josh, you've left it blank.

I just left it blank.

You didn't want to play that game.

You're not playing.

I refuse to play. I'm not playing.

I couldn't think of anything that was, I'm glad I didn't write anything down.

So what was in my head?

I'm glad isn't on paper.

Yeah, same. Oh, wow.

What an experience.

Brazilian butt lift.

Yeah, there you go.

Cool. So Peter Boal?

Peter Boal. Wonderful man.

Almost Peter BBL. One letter away.

One letter away from Peter Brazilian butt lift.

This is a wonderful chat.

He talks about his upbringing from, well, being born in Sudan, moving to Egypt.

The racism that he copped in, his family copped in Egypt, then coming to Australia, not speaking English at all.

And with his family, the connection with his brothers, his siblings that got him through those early years.

And then not really liking running, discovering, almost being forced to believe that he hated it.

That was, I mean, yeah, that was the most surprising, and I don't want to give it away, but this is the most surprising answer to when I said, do you like running?

I just assumed he'd be like, love it more than anything.

I was shocked. That wasn't the case.

Then he talks about his first Olympic experience where he wasn't really there for the running, he was there for something else completely.

And then on to his next Olympics and the incredible hires that brought him and then when his world came crashing down around him with the false positive drug scandal, which is just the most horrific thing for an athlete in full flight appearing for the Olympics.

It's the worst possible thing.

Haven't done a thing wrong.

A false positive and then, yeah, it's completely derailed him.

But we hear him talk about that in a really vulnerable and really fascinating way.

What an amazing man.

Peter B .O. Allen. We are very excited to welcome to The Imperfects today, three -time Olympian, 800 -meter runner, Peter Boll.

Welcome to The Imperfects, Peter.

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

I've been watching a few episodes, so I'm excited.

Not as excited as I am.

Peter and I are trying the same track.

And I've been trying to think of a better word than perv, but I can't think of a better word at the moment, but I...

Oh, try harder. I don't know if you've given it enough thought.

I watch Peter a lot.

There is no running...

Didn't think you could dig the grave deep, I guess.

There's no running technique that I love more in the world.

It's a thing of beauty.

And I say that very sincerely.

Quite often, I will finish my sessions, and Peter might just rock up with his group, and so I'll stay for an extra hour and just watch.

I have taken photos of his coach, Jana, has a whiteboard with their session on.

Oh, the sessions, yeah.

And I often take photos of that.

That's probably the best result of what you're about to say.

Just so you've taken photos on the whiteboard.

Okay, that's good. Although I would probably have to confess to having a few videos of Peter in full stride at the track.

Next time you'd have to actually join us and do the sessions.

Well, yeah, it would make you look even quicker than you already are.

Is that like... I'm not a professional athlete, Peter.

Surprised? You did just give me a look up and down.

But with running style, is that like...

I mean, obviously you work on it and you improve it as you go, but in terms of like, nurture versus nature, like how much can you create a running style, or are you just born a good runner?

Oh, it's a bit of both.

Sometimes you can have naturally good technique, but I think you have to develop it a lot over like training.

But I don't know, my younger brother has pretty good technique and he doesn't really run.

So he has it naturally.

While I didn't have a good running technique at all.

Oh, you didn't? Not at all.

But I play different sports, so I don't know.

Sometimes you are gifted with a better running technique, but most people over the time, they just kind of eventually get good at it.

This may seem like a stupid question, but I mean it sincerely.

Do you love running?

No, not at all, actually.

No, not as much. Because you're just running laps on your own sometimes.

But I think what I do love about it is when you're running and you're in really good shape, it's like almost meditating.

So it's hard to get to that state at times.

So that's what I like about it.

And obviously having a group with you and experiences that you can't get to it, because I didn't start running until I was 17, because I mean I was doing more team sports and whatnot.

You play basketball?

Every single sport.

I've got four brothers, so I played basketball.

I played basketball at school, yeah, and then I did soccer, everything else around it.

But yeah, I'm starting to enjoy it a lot more as I learn a lot more about it.

But naturally, running would have been like the last sport that I would have wanted to do.

That's not the answer I was expecting.

That's fascinating.

I will show you some photos later of the whiteboard, and it all makes sense why you wouldn't enjoy doing the stuff that your coach gets you to do.

It's insane, the sessions I do.

Absolutely insane. We are so excited to have you here for the obvious reason for me around your runny.

But the other reason I'm so excited to chat to you today, Peter, is that I feel like I have heard chunks of your story, little bits of your story, and love it, and love you.

And the country as well loves you, and you kind of build this incredible momentum, and your story is unique, and your journey is extraordinary.

And it was sort of on this upward trajectory, this amazing upward trajectory.

And then in 2023, everything, the earth shifted beneath you, and it just came crashing down so suddenly.

And I haven't really heard you talk about that, but I want to talk about your life before that first.

I do want to get to there, but your journey to get to that point, and also the recovery as well, like the journey you're on now.

So I can't wait to be able to hear that whole story.

Yeah, absolutely. So you're born in South Sudan, is that right?

No, I was born in North actually.

North Sudan, okay. But when I was born, it was just one country.

Right, okay. Yeah, because they got independence in 2011.

So I was born in 94, and it was just one country, it was just called Sudan, at the time.

And I was right in saying your parents, one parent was from the south of Sudan, and one was from the north of Sudan, is that right?

Yeah, my dad's south Sudanese, and my mom is from a tribe on the north side of Sudan.

So completely different languages, completely different people, because we grew up on my mum's side.

I grew up speaking my mum's language, and then I eventually lost it.

Okay. And then we just kind of spoke Arabic, and that's what I speak at home, the family at the moment.

Right, okay. And so, due to the civil war, your family ends up fleeing Sudan.

Do you have memories of that happening at all?

Not really, because I was six years old when I left Sudan.

I guess we went from Sudan to Egypt, and then from Egypt to Australia.

I was about 10 when I went to Australia, so a little bit more memories in Egypt than it was in Sudan.

What was it like being in Egypt for you and your family?

I mean, I think it was still pretty tough.

Yeah, it was just difficult.

There was just a lot of hard times, a lot of racism, a lot of all that stuff that goes on there that no one really hears about.

I had my brothers, and that was probably the best part, because I've got two older brothers that are kind of always looked after you, and your parents are generally pretty busy trying to work and trying to provide opportunity for you and whatnot.

Like, in what ways is your older brother sticking up for you?

There was obviously a lot of racism and whatnot, but sometimes it could also get physical, so my brothers would be like, we got this, you can go, I'm like, yeah, cool.

Oh, really? They step into a fight.

They'd have to. That's your brothers.

That's who they are.

Even, I guess, as a kid you get into fights, and you get all that stuff sometimes.

Do you think that knowledge that they've got your back, and not only your older brothers, but just your family in general, having such a tight unit, the thing that gave you an extra level of confidence or self -belief or courage, at least, when you got older, is there a sense of like, oh, I'm going to

try this thing, which is hard and a bit scary, but I'll be okay, because I got my family.

Yeah, exactly that.

Fear is there. I'm not scared of fear.

I know it's just an emotion.

You experience it, so I'm embraced.

They embraced it. It's not like they weren't scared when they stopped in to fight, but they just knew.

They just had to do it.

That is expectation, and that is, I guess, the best solution at that time.

Because I guess if we ran away, maybe I wouldn't be able to get away because I was so little, but they just had to embrace it.

If I go in there and I'm raising people, I'm like, man, this is just a run, mate.

We've been through worse things.

And when you were in Egypt, was this with a aim to be somewhere else in the end, or was Egypt going to be home?

We were in Egypt, obviously, to get away from Sudan.

It was going through a lot.

It's actually going through a lot at the moment.

And then from there, my dad had family in Toomba, so you did the paperwork and the goal was to come to Australia from there.

Because even South Sudan and North Sudan, you'd be able to move to Egypt or Kenya during the wars.

Those are the closest neighboring cities.

And everyone's goal is literally to be in, I guess, the three countries, like Canada, US and Australia.

And that's probably where you have the most Sudanese at the moment around.

That's where they are.

What were your parents doing for work in Egypt?

My dad was actually ironing clothes, so every time I wear clothes, he's like, you got to iron that one.

Are you thinking about that with when you're running, like the uniform you're putting on it, you can't have a crease.

Yeah. So he was doing that.

And I don't even know.

He actually moved to Egypt first before us.

He was already there.

He was already there working and trying to find a place for us, and whatnot.

And we traveled with my mum and her brother.

And what were your first impressions of Australia, or how was it coming to Australia?

You're probably thinking on the way over, this is so exciting.

We're going to incredible places where we've always wanted to be, one of the three places we wanted to go to.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, the dream, like exactly what you said, that was sold to us by parents of...

I had no idea where Australia was or where it was on the map.

And then I realized, like, you're on the plane forever.

Do you know... I mean, I can't imagine you would know at the time, but in speaking to your parents once getting here when you're a bit older, what information they were getting in terms of where to go, like why America, Canada, or Australia?

Yeah, because, well, the main thing was safety was huge.

Like your parents just want you to be safe.

They want you to be safe.

They want opportunities like jobs for them, so they can provide for you, and then three opportunities for yourself, which is education, like America, Canada, Australia, they can provide all that safety, education, opportunity.

And that's kind of where you're going with it.

So where did you go to school?

You come over here, you were primary school age when you got here?

Yeah, I was probably E -6, E -5, really, without speaking in English.

So you can imagine it's freaked out.

You didn't have English yet.

No, I didn't. So you rock off to school, and nothing makes sense.

All in sports, of course, because it's universal.

We go to sport already by that stage?

Yeah, yeah, it was pretty decent, I think.

But as I said, I got four brothers, and all we did is play sports.

So I was pretty naturally fast.

Oh, you got four brothers.

I got four brothers, yeah.

Right, so younger than you as well?

Two younger, two older.

Alright, I got you.

Wow. Imagine going to a primary school and not being able to speak the language.

Like, if you actually think about that.

Yeah. And how quickly did you learn?

Very quick, like maybe six months, and the day you were pretty fluent.

Because that's all you're speaking.

And you and your brothers are all like, are you practicing at home together?

We're competing at home together.

Like, yeah, trying to learn.

Yeah, like who learns the fastest and whatnot.

Who won? I don't know.

I'd say me, but they might have a different answer.

They might have a different answer.

And you've got this incredible currency being sport.

Like, you can, I guess, like you'd probably be able to make, particularly in primary school, but if you're good at sport, you make friends.

Yeah, I think the best three times at school were sports, lunch and recess.

Yeah. Because at least at lunch, like, you have to hang out with your brothers and, and to Umber, there was actually a bit of South Sudanese community there.

So you got to hang out with people that spoke your own language as well.

Although you try not to, because you want to learn, learn English as quick as possible.

But at least those made sense.

Like food makes sense.

It's universal. Did you feel safe and like you belong in Australia from, or was it, you felt like a bit of an outside?

Yeah, again, like once you compare it to where we came from that racism part, like it just felt like almost non -existent, even though it's just probably a bit of racism and whatnot, but it was just different.

Like it was very open back in Egypt and then also safety was really hard back in Sudan.

So like you just kind of got on a level up each time and you just, you're more focusing on gratitude rather than anything.

Like you're not focusing on, on what you experienced and on all that stuff, because you're like, well, your parents worked so hard to get you here.

You kind of just seen the brighter side, the brighter side.

I think if you ask that question to like my brothers who are a lot older, you get a very different answer.

And then if you ask the same questions to my parents, you'll also get a very different answer because the experiences are completely different.

That's so interesting.

It's like the older you get, the more exposed you are to the harshness of the world.

Yeah. If you're a kid, you just like, you can be naive and just don't lie.

Yeah. As long as you got your brother's food on the table and you feel safe, you're good.

So then you go to high school, where do you go to high school?

Where are you still in?

I was in Toomba. I was only there for a semester before we relocated to Perth.

Once you get to high school, cause you know, you said you didn't start running until you're 17.

Were there any moments when you're just like in your normal life and all of a sudden you quickly have to run for the bus.

And then you go, whoa, what was that?

Superpower. That was quicker than I expected.

No, at school, the good thing here about, I guess about being in school in Australia is you got like so much different sports.

You got athletics carnival and the compulsory makes like no sense.

Like people trying to force you to run and whatnot.

But I went to school at St.

Joseph College where you had to do the athletics camp.

And I didn't think I was that fast.

I was like, oh, I lost by a lot, but I was, I still came second.

I was still on the podium, but who I lost to was later on.

He was at the Olympics as well.

He was like Patrick Tienan.

Wow. He went to school together.

He went to St. Joseph.

So he was so yardstick that was pretty.

So I was like, I was like coming second and this kid was like miles away, but I had no idea he was the best in the country.

I always someone told me that and like, you got home discouraged and everything.

Oh wow. Running things.

Not for me. Yeah, that's not for me at all.

But when you start doing these athletics carnivals and you know, they're forcing you to run and you're running and clearly running quite quickly.

Are there teachers or coaches like going, hang on.

You've, you've got a gift here.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

And I think it happened in, in Tumba as well, but I wasn't, I wasn't at school long enough.

Like we left straight away.

It was more in Perth where I had a teacher that I was like, hold on.

Like I think you got a real, real talent here and I think you should do it outside of school.

And you said this in year 80 and nine when I was eight and I didn't take it on until I was like about to graduate school.

It's like, I was like, I'm just, I'm not running like, So you're a bit resistant.

You're a bit resistant to it then.

I was really resistant.

Like she asked me, I think two years in a row and I said no.

Um, and I think it was like the final year at school because I was like coming second all the time to one kid.

And I was like, and I just asked her like, like, why is this kid faster than me?

So well he trains. Yeah, that's a great answer.

I'm like, fine. Like let me try this training thing.

And then you go train and you're like, oh, this, this thing actually works.

Like the more, the more you train the better you get.

And you say you noticed yourself getting better from the, from the training.

Instantly, not better.

Like, because I wasn't timing myself or anything like that, better by beating the people because at school I was already beating everyone naturally.

But then when you went into school, other schools that was coming second and then when I finally won that, I was like, oh, and they're like, hold on.

Like that's just Western Australia.

Now there's kids in like New South Wales and everything like that.

You got to try to beat them.

Like honestly, I want it to be the best.

Just the fastest at home, which is hard.

I've got two older brothers.

Oh, fastest in your own home.

At my own home. I've got two older brothers that are pretty, they're naturally like stronger.

I'm the shortest at home.

They're stronger, taller.

And then I've got a younger brother that's really, really talented.

In fact, when I came back from my first Olympics in Rio, my brother, my brother's at school and he had athletics carnival.

We went to the same school and he said, come to school.

I'm going to break your records.

And how I went there, he smashed my records.

After you've been to the Olympics.

He smashed my records at school when I was school at the time.

It just naturally is.

Come and watch me break your records.

Oh, I don't think I will.

Sounds like a terrible day.

Yeah, he broke them all.

And I think to this day, I think he's probably naturally him and my second oldest brother, which is naturally more gifted.

That lady has to tell him about training.

So as this is all happening, I know we're sort of in and out of order here, but, but you've got this huge family at home.

So as you're training and getting better and eventually like winning things, how's the family reacting?

Like how's, how's their support or, you know?

Yeah, my family is really supportive to understand the level of support.

You have to understand like where we came from.

As I explained before we came from not, we didn't have much, but like we had everything.

And within saying that, like we had each other.

So like, although we didn't have safety, like we moved as a unit together to Egypt.

Although like maybe they experienced a lot of racism there, like we still moved as a unit.

And the best thing about that is my parents never told me to go to training.

Like, but they've always checked up on me if I was okay.

So sport was just like, it was like a privilege that you kind of did, but you, your happiness and who you are as a person was always way more important to them.

So that's how to support really on the, on the bigger picture on a bigger scale.

Wow. And I think that's what got me so far because it was like never a fear of like failing and not impressing your parents or letting everyone down.

They're like completely gave me an opportunity to fail and be like, we still love you.

It's still got you no matter what.

It's kind of like the opposite parenting technique than Tiger Woods' dad.

Yeah. So it's like all about winning and competing.

And that's the most important thing.

You also get results that way, right?

And sometimes I like, when I was, when I was a kid and my teacher finally got me to, to train and I was like, I try this training thing a little bit and I'd rock up the training and I'll get bored and I will lose a race.

And I just didn't know how to cope with it.

And I'm like, not rock up the training for three weeks.

My parents would never tell me to go to training.

So sometimes like you wish you had that at the same time.

But I think what was good is you had to build out yourself.

You had to build that passion yourself.

But what's really like interesting and clear, like you, I reckon, Peter, you've mentioned the word safety probably like four or five times.

Clearly, such understandably, such a huge theme in your life.

And you compare to like, you know, Agassiz and Tiger Woods.

And they, I can't imagine, have ever had to worry about safety.

And so their parents, it wasn't ever a thing.

Whereas obviously your parents, it's like the sole, probably their sole mission was to keep you guys safe.

And I think it's also like, I guess a value system.

You just, we just kind of work on that.

And like the value system back home was always like family was like first faith was like second.

Like they were people like very faithful and like just loved each other family because that's all they had.

And your health was really important.

Hence why like sport was important.

They encouraged you to do sports but they didn't care what sports you did.

And I also think if you think about it, like there wasn't much opportunity with sports back home.

So your parents aren't really going to push you towards that.

What they wanted to push you towards is what they never had, which is education back there.

It's like education is the way out.

So they're pushing you towards that instead of sports.

So it really just depends where you come from and your experiences and whatnot.

I'm sure if my parents grew up here, like I have grown up here, like they'll be completely different approach.

It'd be completely different.

But they raised me based on what they knew and the best they could do.

I'd love to know. So 2016.

I mean, we just talked about your parents bring you out here for a better life.

In 2016, you're picked for your first Olympic team, Australian Olympic team.

What does that feel like when getting your uniform?

All that kind of stuff?

Yeah, it was actually pretty weird.

Like strange because I got picked in four years.

I think it was like four years, five years before that I was.

I was literally trying to chase kids at school and be the fastest at school.

And then I'm like running at the Olympic Games.

And like we said before, which is pretty crazy, if you rock up to school and you can't speak a word of English, it's pretty crazy experience.

I rocked up to my first Olympics without having represented Australia at any event.

Oh, whoa. It was my first international event.

So I was like, so I was like, so I was like pretty crazy.

And I was like, I'm really that interested in running.

I was just there. Was the Olympic Games a big part of your world in the years leading up?

Like, did you watch the Olympics?

No, I didn't really watch it.

Why bother? Yeah, not interesting.

Fascinating. Okay, so yeah, 2016, you never represent Australia first time.

First team. So it was like a bit confusing, and I rocked up to the Olympics with like one support team, which is like a coach and family that didn't really have much to do with the athletic spot.

But then like your biggest support.

And then you rock up there and I was like, oh, now there's a physio, there's a sports psychologist.

I was like, is it physio?

Like, when things hurt, I just stopped until they didn't hurt.

Why do I need to see a physio for?

And it's so expensive.

But I was like, damn, this is free.

I want to see a physio every day.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah. All these race horses.

Like all these resources and then like a sports psychologist.

And that one was strange to me.

I knew like psychology and whatnot, like sports psychology.

Like what does he want to talk to me about?

Like, I'm good. He's like, no, no, we're like, we want to know like, how are you feeling?

And I was like, man, go check my Instagram.

I already read how I felt.

That's not a week before the Olympics, like, it makes no sense.

So you introduce all these different things and you get overwhelmed.

And that's, I guess that's the lack of experience and you get there and you finally get to Olympic Games.

And like for me, I almost forget I was there for running, right?

Cause I get there and I'm like, man, like everything was free at the Olympic village.

And I had a ball. Tell me about that.

So what was free? Like, what were the experiences you had at the Olympic?

Oh man, what was free?

Food was free and the food court's open 24 seven.

So you just not good for you, but yeah.

It's amazing. So you just end up experiencing all of it.

And I literally had three haircuts at the Olympics.

I don't even have that long.

Cause it was free. It was just free.

You can just go see a barber, like it's free.

You can get like, um, beats by Dre for free.

And yeah. Um, that's pretty cool.

That's pretty cool.

And basketball is like my favorite sport.

And, and like I said, Tony Parker and I saw everyone and Usain Bolt was there.

That's like literally the only runner I must have known.

It's the only runner I knew.

Yeah. It was so big.

Like I was like, man, Usain Bolt is like right here.

I feel like if you are picked the Olympic games, you'd have a very similar experience.

I feel like I'd just miss out on the final.

I think that would be the only difference, but yes.

Yeah. But it's like the thrill of it.

And particularly cause you'd never represented Australia before 10 years or less than that ago.

I wasn't even Australian citizen.

So if that's your, you're having a great time at the Olympics, you're at the food court at 3AM eating meat pies, having the time of your life, getting your hair cut while eating pizza and are there like athletics coaches or the people, the Australians there, are they trying to get you to get more excited about the running

or like, what's their involvement or.

Yeah. I'm always very supportive.

And, but of course like I was very resistant to it because I just got here because, because I was being me, like I'm not trying to change anything in the last minute.

So like reflecting back, I think I did it the best way possible.

Like I wouldn't want to change anything, not even results.

Cause like I had to experience that others probably experienced that at world genius level, commonwealth youth, all of those different events.

I didn't. So I just had to go and experience it.

And the result was you came fifth in the heat, I think.

Fifth in the heat. Yeah.

So, so missed out on the, on the, on the following rounds.

Were you happy with your time that you ran?

No, I wasn't, but I was happy that you had to run again.

Cause running sucks.

No, no, no, no, no, no, because running sucks.

But I was like, man, like the amount of nerves that you received, I'm like, man, maybe I should have spoke to that sports psychologist.

Maybe he knew what he was talking about.

Or maybe he made me more nervous.

I just did not want to go through that again.

Cause like, I remember waking up the morning of the race.

I was so nervous, like shaking.

I just, just couldn't stop it or control it.

And I wish I had the coping strategies to deal with that at the time.

And it was like, you know, you're only running for like less than two minutes.

You're just in your head the whole time.

So like, I was happy that I didn't have to run again.

And, and like, the first thing I did was like, go to the food courts, just call family.

They're all proud and happy.

They didn't care about the results.

I was like, cool. Were the family able to come and use the food court as well?

Oh, that would be crazy.

I would be able to run the first round.

I can't make the race today we're eating.

I'm sorry. We've got a booking.

It's, athletics is a strange one because you're like traveling.

And I think it was my sister at one time.

She, I was talking to her on the phone.

Hang on, your sister.

Yeah. I've got a sister that was actually born in Australia.

So she's only on born in Australia as well.

So four brothers and a sister.

Okay. And she, she has a lot of questions, like kids have a lot of questions.

She was, I don't know how old that time, but she was like, I was, I think in Barcelona, like running.

She's like, you went all the way there to run for like a minute and 47 seconds.

That's crazy. Like, it is crazy.

That's like literally our life.

Like you're going all the way to the Olympics to run for less than two minutes.

To run in a circle twice.

And you have to wait for years to do that.

It's, it's, it's intense sport and you gotta be at your best on that day.

Like it's not like team sports.

If you didn't feel good, like I'm out.

You can kind of get someone else to come in.

You had more rounds as well.

But athletics, if you miss out that first round is it's done.

I was wondering when you were talking really beautifully about your family moving as a unit and your love of team sports.

Was there any sense, and this could just be a completely wrong, but was there any sense of guilt is the right word, but like standing out on a limb or individualism guilt when you're taking on a sport that's individualistic and setting you outside the family unit or like, as opposed to doing a team

thing? No, because, and that's credit to how strong the unit is, right?

When, when you guess, spread your wings and go different, different directions, you're not, I'm not going different directions and like in love and, and the values at home.

I'm just going different directions as passion and that's, that's a given we're all, we're siblings, that's what keeps us together.

And we're family, that's what keeps us together.

But we all have different passions and dreams, aspirations, and it's like, you can go out there and do that, but we'll still get behind you.

So no, they're always, they're always there behind me.

I never felt, never felt any guilt.

I think the only, I don't think it was guilt.

I think one of the hardest decisions I have to make was when I moved probably from, from Perth to Melbourne.

As I said, like my whole life would move together, like again, from Sudan to Egypt, Egypt to Toomba, Toomba to Perth, and then from Perth, I moved to Melbourne by myself.

And that was like, that was like hard, but more for me because I like, I knew my wellbeing was best.

Like as I said, values for us was always family, faith and health.

Like, I'm now I'm leaving family.

So that was like hard.

It's like, is this, is this sacrifice worth it?

So it was like, it was like my biggest sacrifice.

And then up on reflection was like, I was like, man, it wasn't actually a sacrifice.

It was like my best opportunity for one, I got closer to my family, for two.

Like I introduced not just myself to Australian culture, but my family and, and like, and that, that barrier that we always had, like couldn't speak the language and like, we're scared to be who we are because you kind of go home and you're Sudanese, you come to, to school and you got to switch all

the time. It's like, well, like, where do I need to be?

It's like, no, you don't actually need to be, you just need to be you.

Like, give a bit of both and embrace who you are.

And, and like be completely courageous and being who you are.

And people kind of learn about your culture.

Like before, like you're saying, you're so mad, family support on TV is like, that's just our culture.

And I think Australia got to learn that.

That's like how we get around each other.

That's like, that's not just me because I made the two Olympic games.

Of course, that's an important part, but that's just how we look after each other and celebrate each other because for us, like people come first.

Yeah. And people come first because that's all we had.

And when you say you move to Victoria away from your family and that made you closer to them, that's an interesting thing.

Yeah. It actually made me really closer because when you're living at home, sometimes you take a lot of things for granted just naturally.

And now when you move away, you're like intentionally getting on a phone call.

It's like, it really tested your values.

If your value is really family, then traveling away shouldn't create that distance.

It should actually just keep you much closer.

So, it was like your goals change, right?

I like using a system of like goal setting, right?

And before athletics first, you got to set your goals outside of life.

And like for the first time I moved to Melbourne, it was like my goal was like, man, pick up the phone three times a week, four times a week and call your family.

And if you're not, then something is either not right or you're too busy.

You just can't be too busy for your family because that's what brings you joy because I understand myself and what brings me joy.

So, whenever... And I'm not expecting to always be happy, but whenever I'm feeling down, I know I at least had to bring it a little bit back.

I just picked up the phone and got home.

That's beautiful. You were saying that your family's values are family, faith and health.

Are they yours or do you have different ones or...?

Like family has always been first and as you kind of grow up and engage more with the community, like community is a huge thing.

It's nice like to give back.

And although like where I'm mated, probably like fourth in Tokyo is the pinnacle, like from a kid trying to be the fastest at school and coming fourth in the world, you have to be aware of the doors that were open to you from...

And that's why family would always come first because those doors were...

Before any of this, those doors were opened by like your parents, your family.

Like without them, I would have never met that teacher.

I would have never got out of where we were.

But that's why family would always be the strongest and faith is because that's their strongest value.

It's incredible perspective to have for your parents because I think, and myself included, most people would just take for granted that their parents would give them the opportunity to succeed and have like a good life.

Like that's for me, like I've had the great fortune and privilege to just like take that, just like, oh yeah, well, I just, I had the opportunity to go to school.

And I just said, but of course, the similar, my parents still gave me that opportunity.

It just, I just don't have that same conscious gratitude, I think, that you do and that your brothers and sister do because of what your parents went through to get where you are.

Honestly, I could find like over 10 kids that are probably way more talented than me, but the difference between me and them is I had someone that's like gave me an opportunity, like, not just like my teacher going back.

She's like, you want to do this?

I was like, no, no, no, no.

And then I was like, oh, well, let me help you even further.

Find your club and take all of that, which is what we don't have.

We've got like lovely families, lovely parents and whatnot.

But remember, they came to Australia with no understanding of all these opportunities.

So they're not going to go out there knowing what sports club to sign you up for and all that stuff.

She took her to extra step.

Can you recall her name, the teacher's name?

Helen Lay, shout out to Helen.

You always stay in touch though.

Every time I go to Perth, we'll catch up or we speak over the phone.

Because again, like, and I respect her so much because she gave me exactly what my family gave me.

She didn't just care about like school.

She didn't just care about everything else.

She cared about the whole, the whole of the person.

So you brought up your fourth place at the Tokyo Olympics.

So this is where you really arrive, I guess, in Australia from a public point of view.

Everyone is, you become a very well known person for very good reasons.

So it's 2021. It was meant to be the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, but COVID, it was 2021.

You go to the Olympics ranked number 19 and in your first heat, you broke the Australian record.

And then you came out the next day in the semifinal and you trimmed that further.

Wow. It's a good couple of days.

Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't worrying about food.

Makes sense. Yeah. I had my priorities right.

Oh, the tough face the same as last time.

In fact, I didn't even have a haircut done at the Olympics.

You didn't. Maybe COVID helped though.

Yeah. You didn't come out the final and you finished fourth.

And I remember that race so well for, it was just the most beautiful race that you ran.

Yeah. Then there's also this beautiful footage of your family crammed into what looks like a small living room, but it's probably just a normal start living room with a lot of people.

It's pretty small. I don't even know how they got in there.

I don't fit in there.

It was awesome to see that.

That whole experience, I mean, it's very different to Rio all of a sudden.

Yeah. And I remember the confidence you spoke with throughout the interviews as you went through the rounds.

You're clearly a very different person than you were to Rio.

Is that correct? Yeah, because I felt like seeing how proud my family were, I was like almost like, Whoa, this is the sacrifices we kind of made.

So they were like jumping up and down and whatnot.

It was just great to see.

And what was even greater to see was, I think one of the reporters was like, the Sudanese community must be really proud.

And I was like, of course they are.

But when you look at that photo, there were so many different communities because we grew up in this small suburb in Thormi.

And there was like Ethiopians, Somalis, Arabs, there's everything there.

So I was like, seeing that room and seeing how many different people there, it was like, that's what kind of brought us together.

It wasn't like it wasn't just being Sudanese that brought us together.

It was like that common place that we had that we all migrated to Australia.

And although we started what we thought was a disadvantage coming here with that English and being behind and all that stuff, it was like, we can still kind of go forward.

Were you carrying like a weight of expectation at all with all that in mind?

No. And that's the reason why I ran so well.

I just embraced it and ran with it.

Because as I said before, like, my parents would never, never cared if I succeeded in athletics.

Like they were just proud when I came first, when I came whenever.

They were just proud to see someone that looked like them being on TV, representing Australia.

And they were just proud of that.

And if you think about like maybe 20 years ago, I was an Australian citizen, 20 years on, not only they see their kid and someone that looks like them representing Australia, but seeing Australia get behind them.

And I was like, wow, like we can really open doors here.

And it's like, this is why we did all these movements.

That's very special.

Yeah, it was also significant.

It was the best result Australian had on the track since 1988.

So for good reason, it was celebrated and Australia loves you.

And soon after that you go to the Commonwealth Games and you get a silver medal in the Commonwealth Games.

And there's a whole lot of stuff happening in your life.

But you're also awarded the Peter Norman Humanitarian Award for contributions to charities in 2023.

You then named, was it the WA Young Person of the Year?

And you're so popular for a really good reason and so well known.

And you're just on this incredible trajectory.

And I think a lot of people were just, certainly me.

I'm thinking about Paris going, I cannot wait to watch him there.

This is just going to be, everything's headed towards this incredible, this crescendo.

And as you say, like so grateful community as well to have Australia behind you and your community.

And then in January of 2023, your world shifts dramatically.

It emerges that you failed an out of competition drug test in October of 2022.

So it came back as a false positive on that A sample.

Well, first of all, that result shouldn't have come out because that's never, the A result is never public.

I wait until there's been the B sample and then I make a conclusion.

So before we get to that, the technicalities of it.

When you hear that, when you're informed that you've had positive sample come through, what happens to you in that moment?

I was actually at home.

So I was at home in my apartment and I was just at home by myself and I get that news and is it a phone call?

Is it, no, no, they come to your house.

They just walk up to your house.

And it was like, it was like pretty intense because as an athlete, you're actually subjected to provide an hour a day where they can come and test you.

And they came on that hour.

And so I was like, there's not, it shouldn't be anything wrong.

And they came. And I remember I looked at them.

I was like, oh, is it, is it, you're on a blood today?

And they're like, oh, I'm afraid of something else.

And I was like, oh, so then I was like nervous.

It was like a long, a long wait until we get to my room, department and whatnot.

It must've felt like probably the longest lift.

And, and then they kind of read you out, like exactly what you just read, you failed an out of competition test and, and you can request for your B sample to get, to get tested, which is pretty new.

Again, like it just felt like I was always chucked in these new scenarios.

And I think I handle it so well because I've always been chucked in all these different places.

Like we had way more concerns than this back in the days, with family fleeing and all that stuff.

But we like learned to adapt with things.

I was like, what? And it was pretty crazy because it was like, you had to kind of give your phone away and all that stuff.

So now you just, now you just at home with no phone to even call anyone or message anyone.

But I remember before they left and took my phone out, I called my coach straight away and my agent.

And just told them, I was like, this, this is the situation.

And they just couldn't believe my coach, Justin, Justin thought I was pranking him at the time.

What a prank. Justin.

Yeah. Because he could, he's like, there's no way.

Like he just thought I was pranking him.

I was like, no, I like, I'm actually being serious in there right here.

And I just told them and yeah.

And then kind of just had to roll with it until that, that B sample, because I requested for my B sample to be tested.

And, but of course, as you said, it obviously got leaked way before that.

And that week was actually like probably one of the most important weeks, right?

Like we've came forth for the Olympic games.

We've represented Australia, the Olympic games.

I was in the Western Australian of the year.

That week was the Australian of the year award.

So like you did feel like you're on the up level, right?

So that week, they were deciding who the youngest Australian of the year was.

And you were, you were a contender because you were the WA.

Yeah. And, and I was, I was really excited.

I usually don't really like events and I was like really excited to go there.

I was like, there's a lot of whispers at the time that you were going to be the young Australian of the year.

I'd heard. Yeah. But all I wanted to be is like, just be a part of it at the end of the day.

And I think I was, it's not that I was robbed out of the opportunity to become the Australian of the year, because that's never known.

But the biggest robbery was probably the opportunity to be in the same room as, as like mind the people that are doing so much for different communities, their communities and making changes like that experience, like getting to know those people because like a whole five days, whatever it is, meeting

and networking, like you never get to have.

And at the Australian of the year ceremony, there's a free hairdressing service.

Yeah. Yeah. That, and you get to meet, meet the Prime Minister and it's pretty cool, right?

In that order. In that order, in that order.

Um, like, cause like everything, as you said, everything was going so up and like it was going so up that, um, the ASC, the Australian Olympic community was like, uh, Pete, we got a strange request for you.

I was getting so much requests, so much media requests.

I was like, no, I don't really want to do media, but I'm like, hey, I want to go to the basketball.

So I was like, if you can get me a basketball tickets, I promise I'd do media.

And I went to watch the basketball, Australia vs America was just like the best and no one is in the stadium so you could hear anyone because it's COVID.

Oh, wow. Yeah. So hopefully I don't get any trouble forgetting me into that game.

You would have been watching in a distance with masks and everything.

Yeah. So like life was changing and like, I was like, wow, this is pretty cool.

Maybe I do like running after all.

But on top of that, like, uh, on my way back there, they're like, oh, we've got a strange request for you.

I was like, what, like, what strange request do you have now?

The whole like 48 hours being strange.

So everything's being strange.

It's like, oh, the Prime Minister wants to know if he can have your number.

I was like, damn Prime Minister, it's like, I was like, is that a request for me to say yes or no?

Am I even allowed to say yes or no?

That's like the promise of our country, right?

Yeah. What do you mean am I allowed to say yes or no?

Well, if the Prime Minister wants your number, like I wouldn't think they would even ask you.

Yes. You just do as a Prime Minister today.

And that's when you know we're in a pretty free country, right?

You can just say nah.

You can just say, nah, I'm cool, man.

I've got better things to do.

A fake number. And I was like, yeah, like, cool.

Like give him my number.

And... Okay. But I'm going to call you right now to make sure that's real.

And so Prime Minister actually didn't call me, but he called me the next day.

And I went to Europe and I remember I was like, man, I have to celebrate with all my friends in Europe.

And plus this like COVID restrictions here, a bit lighter.

So I went out with all my friends, like 4am, my phone started ringing and I look at the phone and I was like, who the hell is this?

And I just hang it up.

And then I wake up, I wake up like the next morning, it's like, hey, Pete Scott Morrison here.

I was like, man, like 20 years ago, you weren't even Australian citizen.

Now you're hanging out with the Prime Minister.

So like your life is really going up, right?

And that I was actually really looking forward at this and going back to that.

I was really looking forward to getting to meet the Prime Minister, getting to meet everyone.

And like that opportunity was like kind of, kind of robbed.

And that disappointed me probably the most.

My resilience during that whole time, it had everything to do with my upbringing and where we came from.

You just naturally click into survival mode.

It's like, because if the A's is positive, the B has to be positive.

It's the same sample.

You're not doing two different samples.

It's exactly the same sample that you split into two.

Oh, that's how it works.

Gotcha. That's how it works.

So you can't almost accept your fate.

And I remember I couldn't call my parents because I think how happy they were.

But I could call my brother because I called my brother and I just told him, look, you couldn't call your parents because it would let them down.

So much. Yeah. I was like, I want to be worried.

They'd be worried so much.

I was like, I didn't want to do that to them.

And so I called my brother and I was like, look, this is happening and all that stuff.

And he was like really cool.

Like understanding is like, look, um, you know, this, this is, this is pretty crap.

What's happening to you and all that stuff.

Um, let's stay strong.

We're here. Whatever you need.

Um, I said, look, if the, if, if it gets leaked by any chance, um, you have to be the one to explain it to them because it's not public knowledge at this point, is it?

There's no public knowledge.

I was just like, probably there's going to be so much, so much phone calls and all that stuff like that.

I just need you to explain it to them in case I can't.

And I don't have access to them.

Whatever. Cause I'm another side of the other world, um, in Melbourne and he's, he was like really good with it while the brother and I guess that's his, his role.

He's like, oh, it protected us and whatnot.

Um, so that was cool.

Like it was comforting to have that.

And the other one was like really comforting to have like my coach, like, like thinking it was a prank.

Like he didn't like us.

Like, Oh, do you think something happened here?

Did you take anything ever?

It was like, it was like, is this a prank?

There's no way. Like it was nice to have that on that level.

And then when it got leaked, it was nice to have it on a whole public level where so many people got behind.

It's like, this is absolutely wrong.

All of this stuff like that.

So although so much went wrong, a lot of things also went right.

Well, that's an amazing way to look at it.

But I'm trying to put myself in your shoes in that moment.

And I would, I can't think of any other emotion than anger.

Yeah. I felt, I felt a lot of anger, but, um, I understood, like the people, the people that love me are probably going to respond to how I respond.

Whoa. If, if I'm angry, that's the emotion they're going to respond with.

You were thinking that in.

I was thinking about that because I was thinking about my family.

And I was thinking absolutely about my parents because I was like, they're going to be hurt the most.

And later on, she did call me cause she was when she, everything called me and like the first day they were like really bad.

And the second day they were like, I was talking to them.

I was like strong as anything.

And they're like, like, just how strong you are.

We feel so much better.

Like you're okay. They said that too.

Yeah. So that, that was like the best part.

Yeah. Wow. Cause you had to like understand like people respond, how you respond.

That's incredibly wise.

How did you feel walking around in public?

Were you worried what people were thinking?

I wasn't really worried about people so much.

I was more because it was like, damn, I'm trending on today again, but this happened for the wrong reason.

I was like number one.

And I think it was June Australian Open.

I was like, how am I number one?

Am I welcome? Doping accusation and all that stuff.

I was like number one.

I was like, damn, like, like there's a lot of people out there.

And I remember this is trying to hear committee was actually really good.

Like they called me and they said, I would love to have you here.

And nothing changes on our end.

But just letting you know, we've never had this much media request to be at the, at the woods.

Oh, right. So there's going to be a lot of people.

There's going to be a lot of media, a lot of media there.

So I was just like one for my own, my own health, going back to value, like my own health, my own family.

It's the best decision not to go.

And two for the whole event, it's probably the best decision for me not to go, because you just the attention of kind of all go towards you.

Oh wow. Are you thinking about the other?

No, like I don't need to be there.

I was just like, I just stayed home.

It was just such a interesting, interesting experience that, but you grow so much from.

That the best way I described it was like, I would never wish this up one of my worst enemies.

But personally I would never take it back.

I feel that we, like you explained how you reacted when you, when they arrived at your door and told you that there was the positive result.

But how about when it leaked?

Like, where were you then?

And how did you find out about...

I was actually at home and my manager called me.

And he just told me like, it's leaked and it's gonna go on in the next 10 minutes.

Oh wow. So I was at home and I was just kind of like, like refreshing, just waiting, waiting.

And then as soon as it just hit, and it was just everywhere.

Has anyone ever explained how it could have possibly liked?

No, no one, no one really tries to do you any favors because I guess legally that's responsibility as well.

Like, no apology. No, like not really.

Because again, apologies taking responsibility.

Like the world is not always fair.

I understand that pretty clearly.

Even with media and stuff, like the moment you start taking things personally, the moment that's robs you out of your, your joy.

Like if you take it too personally, like these guys are like, they're just doing their job.

Like someone literally gave them the best news to trend as if they're not gonna use it.

Yeah, certainly not.

But I can certainly understand that perspective with the journalists writing the articles and all that kind of stuff, but just that how it gets out of.

And why it gets out.

And I feel like it's important that we should, we need to also say what happened in the end with the result of like being completely exonerated.

So there's the B sample.

Yeah. And then completely how long was that period of time between?

It actually wasn't long.

So I was like, why don't you just wait?

It wasn't that long.

I think it was like a week or so.

Really? Yeah. It was like, I think, I think there's so many theories, but I think the theory was that I was such a strong contender for strong in a year that someone had to leak it and panic to leak it that because if I won, it would have just made it look so bad.

Oh, which was that theory kind of make sense.

Yeah. So if you want it and then it can, and then like literally a few days later, like you, yeah.

Okay. Like that would be horrible and that would be completely horrible.

And I would never want it to go that way either.

And I remember I had like such such good management team is like, and we spoke.

I was like, I was like, I've absolutely got nothing to hide and I've never done anything wrong to shoot in this sport.

And my manager said, then you deserve, you deserve to go to that awards night and you should go.

And I was like, yeah, we're going, we're going to roll with it.

But then it got leaked and I was like, how much attention was going to be?

And it's like, nah, then it's not the right choice.

So if it was never leaked, I would actually be in there.

Okay. Yeah. You've spoken beautifully and I've sort of asked you before about your values and your knowledge.

You seem like a very introspective person.

You obviously write journal a lot through this time, not only in that week where it was sort of up in the air, but then also for the lack from my recollection, it was quite a period of time until it was like the official body completely exonerates you of all wrongdoing and stuff like that.

Did you ever find yourself wavering from the path of your values and your resilience like it with their moments where you found yourself lost at all?

No, I think interestingly, actually quite the opposite.

It was like, you kind of almost found yourself, right?

It was, it was realizing that you actually through the success of the world and, and chasing so many different goals that you, you slowly drifted away from, from some of your values.

So it was at times like where like you just understand like your values kind of get back to you.

It's like at that moment, who came to you first was like family like, like I remember I was at home and my sister flew over.

She stayed with me.

Then she went home.

My brother came and the mother brother came.

I was like, wow. Like, like families forever.

That's consistent. Sport isn't like you eventually had to retire at some point and, and decline.

But like family could be forever.

That's, that's like really, really special in the faith.

Like, like my mom would just say, like, leave it in God's hand.

That's like a really good way to see it because faith is, is really important.

And then once, once you have a strong faith, like you just kind of accept whatever happens, happens and you just have to roll with it.

What kind of left was the joy of running, which, which is, which is fair, which is fair.

Like the joy of running and the joy of being around too many people and all that stuff that left.

But that's just what, that's what I did.

And I knew at the end of the day, like running was always a privilege that I was going to end anyway.

And if it ended at that time, I wouldn't have been happy about it, but I would accept it.

Versus if I lost a family member, it would have been way tougher to deal with that, with that time.

Because like, man, I'm just running.

Like, like, if you don't want me to run, you don't want me to run.

It's so admirable, that approach because again, putting myself in your shoes, I think, even though I know you hate running, but if someone, if someone, if I was like, you know, facing the chance of not being able to do the thing that was maybe not only the thing that I love, but it is sort of my, you

know, apart from the people in my life, it's sort of the sole purpose, you know, it's your soul.

It's the thing you're training for.

You're like probably 18 months away from the next Olympics.

You're probably training for that, looking towards that.

And then, and I'm, and so I just sort of, I'm just trying to think like, why am I, why would I feel so angry?

Because I think most people would, facing the potential of not being able to do the thing that is their number one thing.

And I think it's because it's like someone is taking something away from me and I can't control it.

And I think that just speaks to my absolute like privilege in my life with not having to worry about, you know, control, you know, I can always be able to control things.

But, and I can totally say why you said you wouldn't change it.

I can, I can see why that would be such a beneficial thing.

Everything you've experienced and being able to deal with that in that way is incredibly inspiring.

But I'm saying that, it wasn't light.

Interestingly, and I don't know why, and I guess sometimes it's better probably not to try find out.

But it was actually more hurtful once, once you're like exerinated and you can run again, because you just felt like you'd been violated.

Like you're just as been violated, like, like someone could just come and say, like, you can, you can stop and you can go back.

That's why we move from so many different places.

Because like you're always being violated, like racially violated against like the safety issues and whatnot.

And then now you come here at the pinnacle of being at the top and someone could do that to you, doing the best you can for the country.

Not not just on the track, but off the track as well.

It's like, how do I then go positively, speak to my community and say, like, you can build up, build up the build you up and you be better.

But like, there's also a chance they can just take that right whenever they want.

There's that chance.

And it's like, man, don't want to explain that to kids.

That's a very dark message to explain to kids.

It's really interesting that it was in the given, like, and I use these words purposely, the giving back, like giving you the opportunity back, saying, OK, you can run again now.

That's the point that triggers it's like the whole time during that time, like, actually slept pretty good.

And that day actually struggled to sleep.

It was just like, it was just like a sad time.

It was like everyone's celebrating.

It's like, what am I celebrating?

Like, I've done nothing wrong.

Yeah. Like, what am I celebrating here?

Like my own innocence, like I was like, it was just hard to deal.

And I didn't have, I guess, the strategies to deal with it there.

And my manager was always always almost shocked at my reaction.

I was like, yeah, but like this issue shouldn't have happened at all.

Yeah. Yeah. Start with there's a time to be angry.

And now it's like the right time.

I'm guessing there is a fair legal fee.

Yeah. Until today. I've never seen a courtroom, but I paid so much in legal fees.

I've never even saw my lawyer.

But I think I ended up paying a lot of like 60 ,000.

And like, and like, I don't know.

I always kind of think of a positive, like I thought about it.

I keep thinking about the positive ways of it.

And I was like, to be able to have 60 ,000 saved, that kind of contribute to your wellbeing.

Because if you didn't have that, and that was the, that's another hard part of learning about it.

It's like justice and freedom, there's a cost to it.

And it's sad because not everyone has the right resources to, to get justice.

So I was like, oh man, that's really sad.

Like if I didn't have the right resources, that would have been under done.

Yeah. You couldn't fight your own fight.

A picture of positivity.

Honestly, that is just, what an outlook.

I'm still angry, but it wasn't, it wasn't for, I think it was for my own, for my own.

And like, I always try to put myself, like, because I, I guess a happy athlete is a performing athlete and also like a happy person is a thriving person.

And, and I want to be better for myself and the people around me.

And, and to do that, like you gotta take a positive side, but at the same time, like be angry and, and fight for justice and all that stuff.

But sometimes it's like completely under your control.

Like if I was ever to try to fight for justice, it would cost me way too much money and you just can't do it.

Who taught you this or did you know it inherently this, it's going to be more beneficial for me and my mental health to be able to find some great gratitude in this pretty shitty situation.

It's got to be my parents, because they're always like in top of everyone like thinks I went through the craziest things, which yeah, fair enough.

But like, can you imagine like what my parents had to go through?

Yeah. Like, well, no, like, yeah, like it's, it's like they'd probably take a positive test instead of that experience back home and seeing their kids, not being able to support their kids and trying to move them away from so many different places just so they can be safe.

Like that's probably, like, that's probably nothing to them, right?

Yeah. I actually wanted to ask you, because I feel like one of the privileges of getting older is getting a bit of perspective on what your parents went, have gone through in their life.

Yeah. I had some perspective and it like, I would wanted to ask you if you'd reflected a bit more on what that experience must have been like for them to relocate the family unit that many times.

Yeah. Have you, have you given it much thought or had discussions with them about that or?

Yeah. I think interesting.

I actually think it's one of the, one of the barriers we kind of got to work on here because there's, there's always, there's that disconnection, right?

Because my parents have way less Australian friends than I would have, right?

I actually grew up in Australia, went to school system, did sports, but my parents, like, as soon as they got here, they had to kind of work and all their friends are like Sudanese or different migrants that they meet at different places, language school and whatnot.

Yeah. So like they literally stay who they are just in a different country while you become a different person and then you can't come back home.

And while sometimes values are a little bit different and you kind of struggle to maneuver between the two, between the two cultures.

Because you still have to, you, you go back home, you speak a different language, you go to school, you go to work, you speak a different language, you come back home, it's like different religion, different ways, different foods, different everything.

So yeah, it's like what they had to go through for all of that, I think it was worth it.

I don't know the day when they see their kids happy and all that stuff.

But I also wonder, not for my parents, but other parents, if our country was safe back home, I think for most of our parents, they would actually stay there.

They wouldn't go there left because of safety, right?

Yeah. But for us, would we go back?

Probably not because we actually spend more time here than we ever did there.

And all our group community now is built up on the Australian system and all our friends, whether they're Australian, African background, they're all kind of around here.

But for them, like my mum's got all her brothers and sisters, all of them are still back in Sudan.

So it just makes sense if she wants to be there and live there.

So is it hard for you the way you spoke then about, it was so beautifully put, that you're growing up, spending the majority of your life in Australia and because of your schooling, because of athletics, because of many things, finding a way in a culturally different part of Australia to what your parents

are. Is it hard for you to develop a sense of belonging, switching between those two worlds when you go back to the family unit and at school and that kind of almost dual worlds within a world?

Does that make sense?

Yeah, it makes sense.

And yeah, I think that's like a challenge that you continuously have to kind of just grow, go through.

And it was hard and sometimes it's still hard.

Kind of find that sense of belonging.

And it's really important because when you feel like you belong, you can actually provide so much value, right?

And someone has to make you feel like you belong.

So positive experiences like being recognized as young Western Australia year, that's a positive experience.

You feel like you belong into a community.

Representing Australia, the Olympic Games.

That's a positive experience.

You feel like you belong.

Opportunity is a positive experience.

You feel like you belong.

And all these opportunities have gave me the strength and wisdom and knowledge to kind of provide positively to the Australian community and contribute, right?

And then others aren't as lucky.

Others might be reversed.

Like that doping allegation was a negative.

Like you just don't feel like you belong.

Even after all of that, imagine at that point, you felt like you still don't belong.

And then that's when you're just like, I don't want to run anymore.

I don't want to run.

It was like, it was like really hard to be like, it wasn't even the running so much.

It was like really hard to kind of think the people that did that to you were like part of your own countries, like did not want me to compete.

Like it was hard then to wait a single again and be like, like honestly say like, I feel so much pride because it was hard to disconnect those people, which only a few versus like the public was so much positively.

Like they were so positive and they were all behind you.

But it was still like those small people could change that whole experience for you.

And gladly I was able to make peace with it and decide like this small group is not going to impact that big group that actually supports you.

They're still making you feel like you belong and they got behind you, but it's those small people that can kind of damage your relationship between so many different communities.

And like I would understand if someone in my experience decided not to go back.

Hence why what you're talking about before has so much darkness to it when you were saying like, you don't want to have to explain that to a kid that like a small group of people can remove that sense of belonging that you've grown and worked so hard on over so many years.

It means so much. It means so much to you.

It means so much to your parents.

It means so much to everyone.

How is it that in the space of two years, you can have a whole country celebrate you, celebrate your family and then two years on, it's like almost like, oh, you're a cheat.

You're this, you're dishonest and all that stuff.

That's, that's really tough.

But, but for me is always understand like, that's just that small group of people, right?

That you actually never actually get to know anyways.

So you end up, you actually, you just, you end up actually forced to be positive.

Because, because if you're, if you're being negative, you actually never get, get angry at the right people because they're never revealed anyways.

You just don't know who they are.

So you end up just being mad at the wrong people.

And that doesn't do you any good or anyone else.

What does it feel like to get messages and gestures of support from the general public?

Oh, it's awesome. Like, man, all the way from, from Tokyo, I got so many messages.

Like it was, it was just such an awesome.

Yeah. It was so cool to get so many messages from people and get to know so many people and just like, even through that, like the amount of messages I got like positive messages from everyone's like, we're here for you.

Without even asking, did you do it or not?

Like we're here for you despite like we're here for you.

And like we've got you.

Like, which is, which is cool to have.

I think that means you'd be like really good relationships that are not just based on your success.

Based on who you are and, and who you are as a person, you have ups and downs, you fail and you succeed.

You do wrong and you do good, right?

So they're like here for you regardless.

So, so that was really cool to have.

Yeah. That support systems like, oh, we, we got you right.

That was nice. That's very special.

Yeah, it is. A little loss for words.

And I, the more people like you in this world, the better this place will be.

I, I admired your, your running and your technique for a long time now.

Now you have to admire me as a person, right?

I really, I like your people in technique even more now, even more than your running technique now.

But you still have to, you still have to come to Collingwood and do a session.

I was thinking as we were talking what we could do is, when you have a tempo session, which is like where you don't go as hard, I could do my speed session.

Like that could be me running as fast as I can and you could be running at like 75 % and people might see us and not know that detail and go, whoa, how does it keep it at Peter Bol?

So you can run a 200 over 400.

Yeah, we could. Yeah.

24 seconds. So if we go on 48, you run a 200 at about 24 seconds.

Yeah, I could do that.

I could do that. There you go.

We'll do it tomorrow.

I'll come on a motorbike.

On your scooter, right?

Yeah, I'll jump on the scooter.

That's cool. I'll jump on with you.

Jump on a scooter. I used to rock up the training of the scooter.

I love the scooters.

This has just been such a joy.

I didn't quite know what to expect going into this interview.

I kind of felt like someone in your position might need to be a little bit, it's a bit hard if you'd be vulnerable, a bit more guarded with what's happened and the way you've been treated.

But you've been so generous.

And I hope a lot of people listen to that.

I hope a lot of young kids in schools listen to this interview because I just feel like there is so many points here in which we can all benefit from and learn from.

And yeah, you are an amazing person.

You really are. And thank you for spending time with us today.

It has been a real, a real thrill.

Can I ask one more question just before we finish up?

Sorry, just one more.

Is that right? Your biggest challenge lies ahead of you.

You're going to be a dad.

I'm actually am a dad already.

Oh, what? From when?

How long ago? Six days ago.

That's huge. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

I was actually thinking about it.

I was like, I'm going to surprise you guys on the podcast and then we completely got sidetracked.

It's a pretty good surprise.

Wow. How's that feel?

How's their name? It's actually really interesting because I'm super active.

And all I want to do is hang out.

And this baby all just wants to sleep, right?

And the only time she wants to hang out is literally at like two in the morning.

I'm like, I'm an athlete.

I can't be up at two in the morning.

So that's been like, that's been really interesting.

But she's like, she's like so beautiful.

And we named her Raina, meaning.

After Jack Raina. Which means like queen.

Awesome. She's really special.

And despite all the achievements on the track and the young Australian and hanging on Scott Morrison and all that stuff, this has got to probably be the most special line.

I'm like super excited.

Excited for it. Wow.

Yeah. That's amazing.

Well, congratulations.

Thank you. That is so recent.

That's incredible. You're here.

Thank you even more so for today.

Wow. Thank you. Yeah, it's so special.

What an amazing reveal at the end there.

Oh, so good. Really held onto that, didn't he?

I follow him a little bit too closely on Instagram and in real life.

And I didn't know. I had no idea.

Yeah. I knew she was expecting, but that is.

Very exciting. Yeah.

Well done. A special way to end.

Yeah. I'll tell you the thing that really, and we won't be too long here because this has been a long app.

We probably didn't need the BBL chat at the start, but.

I can't say how the app works without it.

The thing that I really wanted to talk about, which I've been sort of looking for an excuse to for quite some time, is when he talked about how grateful he was for his parents, everything they did to give him the opportunity to end up where he's ended up and what they went through as a family.

And I think about it now as a parent, like the lengths you go to, to try and help your kids out, but to go from Sudan to Egypt and then to Australia and then move in Australia and just trying to find the best place for their kids, the best opportunities.

It just reminded me of something that I continue to get DMs about from people, beautiful DMs.

I don't know what season it was.

It was years ago. I wrote.

Well, I wrote a chapter in my book, which is almost, it's pretty much like a love letter to my dad, like to our dad, sorry, to say all the things I love about dad and why I'm so grateful for him.

And there's an episode we did where I read it to him.

I actually went and read it out to him, and we recorded it and we put it on the podcast.

We'll put a link to it.

I can't remember when it was.

But since that day, or since that episode came out, I'm continually emailed by people, or DM'd by people saying they've done it and what it's done to their lives.

And it has been, it's my favourite type of DM to get.

It's just incredible.

The impact it's had on people's lives, their relationships.

There was one that I remember, which was very special a while ago, a guy who was, in fact, I won't say which club or which league, but he's an assistant coach at a professional football club.

And he wrote his data letter off the back of that episode saying to him that all he's ever done has been tried to make him proud.

He knows how much his dad loves footy.

And so that's why he's an assistant coach at a footy club.

He's always said to me a while ago, he hates doing it.

Like it makes him so miserable.

He hates that he does it, but he knows how proud it makes his dad.

And in the letter, he told his dad, I don't love my job, but I know how much joy it brings you telling your friends that I'm a coach at this football club.

And his dad sent him a letter back, and it just said, all I have want for you to be is happy.

I don't, I don't, I only tell them that you do that because that people ask what you're doing.

It's not, that's not the reason.

I just want you to be happy.

That's all I want. And that afternoon, this guy quit his job and he moved back to regional part of Australia that he's from with his whole family because he just, he just missed being at home, but he couldn't be at home where he grew up because he had to beat this.

Anyway, he said it was the most life changing thing ever.

And he said the relationship with his dad has just gone from like telling him he's miserable, that thought made his dad proud to, you know, it's, and I just get so many messages like that.

So what I just would love to take this opportunity to do is to say to people, if you thought about it when you listened to it, I might write one of my parents or both my parents.

If you're lucky enough to have both your parents in your life, a letter of thanks or gratitude, telling them how much you love them.

Take this as a reminder because it's been so life changing for so many people.

I have heard from one person who said that plan too, and then it was too late, which was so very sad.

But I have also heard from someone who wrote their dad, a letter who is no longer around and they didn't have a good relationship.

And the dad wasn't good.

It wasn't a good presence in their life, but he wrote him a letter to say because of you, I have learned the way I don't want to be.

And I'm the opposite of you.

He said, I'm a loving father.

I'm a committed father.

I'm a loyal partner.

And everything I do is for my kids.

And I learned that because of you.

I learned I don't want to be anything like you.

And he said, it was the most freeing thing I've ever done.

He said, obviously no one's read it.

He didn't show his dad.

His dad's no longer.

Oh, OK. So he didn't get the chance to.

He said just writing the letter.

Yeah, he said it was just so freeing for him and was so therapeutic.

He said so. Yeah. If you are able to write your parents a letter to tell them why you love them and or what you're grateful for with them, it's like a gratitude letter.

If you can then take the step to read it to them, it's incredibly awkward.

I did it with dad, but it was incredible for our relationship.

But if you just want to write it and send it to them, I think it's just as powerful really.

So just a reminder, that might be a nice thing to do as we near the end of the year.

Great idea. Lovely.

Yeah, I had thought there was one thing I wanted to bring up as well.

And it sort of ties into that.

And I don't know if a gratitude letter would work for it.

But the other when you were talking about the sacrifices his parents made, I also found it really humbling the way Peter gave a lot of credit to all the people in his life for his success.

And I thought it was really powerful.

Yeah, he's teacher from school.

And the important role that having someone in your camp or on your side is, it's sort of it's such a refreshing take on the idea that it's quite an American thing that like I did it all myself.

Look at me, look how great I am.

And I worked really hard.

And I've earned this and all that kind of stuff.

It's really beautiful, humbling way he talked about it and gave so much credit to her that he wouldn't be there if it wasn't for her consistently believing in him and pushing him and believing in obviously pushing him with so much love as well.

I don't know, would you write a gratitude letter to someone in your life as well?

Anyone who's had a positive impact in your life is a wonderful, wonderful thing to do.

Yeah, awesome. Cool.

Love that here. Love it.

Thank you, Ryan. That's a pleasure, mate.

It's good to see you.

Likewise. Okay. So can you send me the URL for BBL?

www .bbl, like, just spell it out?

I reckon. Capital letters or?

I haven't Googled BBL before, but I can if you do it.

I hear you say lots of pictures of Dan Christian and Glenn Maxwell.

That'd be the first thing you say.

They've had the operation.

Good for them. Oh, beautiful.

Well, thanks, Peter Bol, Peter BOL.

Yeah, very good. We'll see you and hear from you.

You'll hear from us next week.

Yeah, yeah. You'll hear from us.

Well, we've not you particularly, but yeah, we'll put up an episode of that.

See you. Bye. Yeah, it's Ryan.

Okay. So Peter Bol, he inspired me massively, right?

And I thought, okay, I'm going to go for a run.

And so I went for a run and as you know, I haven't run for a long, long time.

I don't think I'm a very good runner.

And so I was running and running.

And I think I just pushed it a bit too far.

And I was getting a bit tired and I don't know how it happened.

But I ran into an oncoming runner and I'm okay.

But he just came out of nowhere.

And next thing you know, like the tips of our noses just collided.

And we just crashed right into each other and I hit the deck and his body rolled.

And I tried to get up and I tried to go and see if it was okay.

And as soon as he saw me, because I wanted to exchange details, right?

You got to exchange details for insurance and stuff.

But he saw me coming and he just did a runner.

Like a literal hit and run.

I'm the victim of a literal hit and run.

My sneakers are totaled.

Can you come pick me up?

Please, it's Ryan Shelton from the podcast.

To call back, press 22 to replay message.

Press 1 to reply. The Imperfects is hosted and produced by Hugh van Carlinburg, Ryan Shelton and Josh van Carlinburg.

Our executive producer is Bridget North East, assistant producer of Bella North East.

This episode is edited by George Martin with music from No Monast.

The Imperfects is not a licensed mental health service that is not a substitute for professional mental health advice, treatment or assessment.

The advice given in this episode is general in nature.

But if you're struggling, please see a health care professional on Call Life Line on 13 11 14.

[피터 볼(Peter Bol): 올림픽 육상 선수의 회복탄력성과 진실을 향한 여정]-[Peter Bol - 800m & 3 Free Haircuts]

📋 Summary

피터 볼: 고난을 넘어선 진정한 승리

이민자의 삶과 스포츠를 통한 적응

달리기, 사랑보다는 메디테이션

거짓 도핑 스캔들과 회복탄력성

결론: 가족과 감사의 힘

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript