Welcome back to Eat Your Crest podcast. I'm Jisoo and I'm Crystal.
Okay, today's topic is everybody's favorite thing at work, I think.
And that is PTO. So pay time off, and all of the unspoken rules that come with taking PTO.
I feel like on a surface level PTO is unproblematic like you're just taking some time off and you've earned it right.
Every paycheck you've earned a couple of hours to put towards your future vacations but there's some like weird silent unspoken rules that come with taking PTO that I feel like you really start to know and feel the longer you work at your company.
Right now we'll talk about earned PTO because we both don't have unlimited PTO so we can't speak too much to that, but I totally agree that there's definitely a feeling of, I've earned this PTO so you can't just like, take it away from me or deny me.
And I think for the most part, that's usually the case but you're right, there's definitely moments where you're like, oh maybe I shouldn't have taken PTO in this moment or like, this particular time is a bad time and it could make me look bad if I'm like, forcing my way into PTO.
Totally. And that actually brings up something funny.
So I've had a couple of bosses in my career so far, and one of the bosses that I had, we were on a very small team.
It was basically my boss and me.
So anytime either of us took PTO, we would want there to be coverage within the team.
So taking PTO was of course a earned right, but it was also something that required a little bit of coordination, like, Hey, I'm going to take this time off.
does that work with you?
How does that fit with our team's goals for the year?
So I was very used to having an open communication about it with my boss.
But a little bit later in my career, I had a different boss.
And at the time that this boss became my boss, our team had since grown.
So there are multiple people on the team, a little bit better PTO coverage, I would say.
So maybe a little bit less coordination required.
And I remember once I was like, hey, I'm thinking of taking these days off.
Is that cool with you?
If so, I'll like put it into the system for approval." And that boss was like, oh, I'm not used to people asking me for permission to take PTO, which I thought was an interesting comment because in my head I was like, I guess you could take it as like, I'm asking for permission, but really what it is is the team going to be okay if I take this PTO?
And that was something that was so ingrained into me with my smaller team experience.
Yeah. So since then, I'm kind of like, I guess I should word it less so like, oh, is it cool if I take this time off and more like, I'm gonna submit this.
Let me know if there's anything you need me to do beforehand so that it doesn't seem as permission seeking.
But at the same time, I was just like, bro, like, let's be real, there are kind of permissions that come with like asking for time off.
A little bit. I think I'm similar to your first situation where my team that has similar function with me, then my more immediate team is definitely smaller.
So, you know, if I'm on PTO and my boss is on PTO, it might be a rough time for people who need, like, design help.
But yeah, I think what I do do is I really take note of when we have events coming up at work or we know that stretch of time might be busy time.
And usually I won't schedule any PTO during that time.
and I usually try to just do it towards like the end of the year, or when I know it'll be a little more chill, especially if it's like right after a big event or a big deadline.
Those are like optimal times, because usually it's a little more chill, you just cleared your plate of all your tasks, and it's a good refresher, I think.
I think you're right in that like there's key weeks that are better for taking pto, and key weeks that maybe aren't as appropriate.
There are definitely some important months in my current job where I'm like, okay, I should probably try not to take vacation on these times.
But another thing that I noticed is oftentimes parents will sort of be forced to take PTO like at the same time.
So like during spring break or summer vacation, I know a lot of parents kind of have to keep their kids entertained.
So then for me, if a lot of people on my team who are like parents have take these times off, it's probably best if I don't take that time off if I can avoid it.
That way there's like someone on our team who's kind of able to answer questions or whatnot.
Wait that's so true, especially if someone's a parent and their kid gets sick.
Then they like usually have to take PTO right or if there's just like any sort of complication with these kids I feel like it's a whole added element.
Luckily on my team though, I think there's only like two or three people in my bigger team who have kids.
So, there's like less just random needed PTO that's being taken.
But I'm like, dude, it's tough.
I see sometimes they're like, oh my god, it's like sixth season, my kid got sick, so I'm gonna stay home this week because I don't wanna like spread the sickness, or I'm gonna have to like take PTO this day because I need to take my kid to the doctor.
I'm like, wow. It's like double work for them.
Wait, holy shit. This is like low -key blowing my mind.
Cause to me, PTO is so vacation focused.
I'm like, Oh, which state or like which country do I want to be in when I take my 20 days off this year or whatever.
But you're so right.
Like when someone is a parent, it's not really your time.
It's like time that you have to allocate for your family.
And that kind of like, I don't know it takes the sparkle away from it.
Dude, don't worry, my co workers who do have kids, they mostly do take PTO still for vacation, but I think there's just like the occasional one or two where it's like, hey, I'm sick, so I'm gonna stay home today or like, kids sick and like, don't want to spread the germs. It's usually still vacation.
So don't worry, I would say the ratio is probably like 95 to like, 5%.
Okay, you got me a little scared for a sec.
I was like, oh no my vacation I think the good thing is that right now like work is relatively flexible with working from home and Coming into the office and I think at least my team is very very understanding We're mostly a team of woman.
So we have a lot of trust and a lot of understanding between us all So it's like, oh, if you know, she has to go take care of her kid, totally get it, blah, blah, blah.
I guess that's like another part of the whole PTO thing, right?
Like if you build up a good relationship with your team, with your boss, and you have a lot of trust, then it's a little easier to have to take last minute PTO, if something happens, or maybe you take a lot of PTO, then it's like easier for them to understand what's going on with you if you actually have a relationship with them.
Oh yeah, I kind of see it more, it depends on the work that you do.
If you're doing a lot of time -sensitive, super critical affects, all these, you know, it's like a dependency for all these other teams or whatever.
Then I feel like maybe there's more rules and more structure.
Luckily, I feel like certain companies in tech or like certain teams, even within these companies do tend to be more chill and more flexible.
So I feel like it's easier to take longer weeks off or maybe close consecutive weeks of PTO off if you are a part of like a more chill team.
But I know I've definitely been on teams where it's like, oh, even when you're off, you kind of like check your phone and things like that.
So that's not super pleasant.
Yeah, that's very true.
I think I'm very lucky that my team is all very encouraging of taking a proper vacation.
They're like, please, don't check your phone.
We've got you covered.
Don't bring your laptop, all that kind of stuff.
And I'm like, wow, that's like very admirable.
And I like that we can support each other like that.
And we have the trust to do that.
Yeah, I think I personally, though, still bring my work phone with me, just in case.
Just in case there's emergencies.
Also, to clarify the trust I mean here is that I can trust my team members to pick up any emergencies that might happen, I bring my phone just in case, but realistically, I probably don't ever have to do anything because if, you know, a last minute project were to come in while I'm on PTO, I know my team members would be able to handle it.
That's such a good point.
And I actually think that's a part of PTO hygiene, almost two of like setting your team up for success while you take PTO.
And it might vary when I was like a very entry -level, like junior level employee, really the PTO coverage that I had wouldn't be significant, right?
It's like, oh, here's like this minor task I was working on.
Here are some notes about it, if anyone asks, but truly like the longer you are at a company or on a team and the bigger your responsibilities grow, I feel like you do kind of have to write stuff down, instruct people on like, okay, if this comes in, here's what you would do.
my learning in the last couple of years is to like write a PTO doc.
Here's my recurring tasks that I would do on what day.
Going to people and like assigning them to be the point person for that task.
And then also just like sharing that doc out to the relevant people and also to my manager so that she knows, okay, this person is taking on Monday reporting.
Like this person is taking on Wednesday reporting so that everyone is kind of in the loop.
Oh my God, yours is like more intense than my prep.
I'm just like, hey boss I'll be gone.
I think I finished all my work but this person might email you about this and I let them know that I'll be gone.
Hey that's PTO hygiene right there.
But there was one time where I felt really bad.
It was actually us we had a planned vacation one year.
You, me, and a couple of our other friends we had planned it maybe it was like a year or half a year in advance but then an event came up at my job and it was like right after our vacation and I was like oh my god and at that time I was the only designer.
I was freaking out a little bit because there were like two thoughts going on one is like well this vacation was planned a long time ago so it's not like we could just cancel it and it's not just me and I let my boss at the time know so she was very understanding But the other part of me was like, oh no, but I don't want to just like leave the team to their own devices for like one and a half to two weeks, especially because I was like the only designer at the time.
So what I did was I told my boss at the time that I would take a couple half days so that I could make sure that we're on track to still complete our stuff by the event.
But then what really worked out was that we were in the process of hiring another designer who would eventually be my senior designer.
And they joined right before, or maybe it was like right during our vacation.
And I was like, oh, perfect.
Like there is someone to cover, but I felt a bit bad cause they're just joined.
So they're like getting thrown into the deep end of doing stuff, but it ended up all working out.
And then ever since then, our team has been better about announcing when these kinds of events would happen because that was the first time that it happened.
So it was announced a little later and I was like, oh my god, I didn't know to expect this.
That's always rough when something really urgent comes up last minute and you're just like, how am I supposed to tackle all of this before my vacation?
Because I'm still going on that vacation.
Yeah. I don't know if you feel this way, but I feel like for me the week before I take a week or two off is always like the craziest week because I'm going to all my corkers and you know doing that whole pto coverage spiel, but also because I want to handle all of my work and get it really wrapped up before I go that week is already busy, but I've had times where something really urgent comes up and I've had to work till like 1 a .m. or something the night before my vacation while also trying to pack at the same time so one of the things that I've noticed that some of my coworkers will do is a couple
of weeks before they go on vacation, if they're like a very external facing person, they'll put in their signature of the email expecting to go on PTO two 21 to three six we'll have limited email during that time and then of course you also do the auto reply when you're out on PTO to be like, okay, if your question is about X, Y and Z email this person, if it's about ABC email this other person.
So I was like, okay, it's kind of nice to like let everyone know beforehand that you're going on PTO That's a good idea putting in your signature upcoming PTO one thing that I have started doing is I send out like a weekly newsletter to One of my main stakeholders, so I usually share in there Oh upcoming PTO or like dates that I won't be available, which I think is pretty helpful but the autoresponder, vacation responder, is like so crucial.
Well, I don't know.
I think because I haven't had any like real emergencies come up while I'm in PTO It's always fine, but I guess it's just the fact that it's like letting people know who are reaching out to you like hey I'll be back later.
Yeah, yeah. But one time I almost forgot to set it and I didn't bring my work laptop with me, and I was like oh my god, can you set this thing from your phone and luckily you could, but yeah, I was like, Oh God, I need to set this right now or else what if people email me, I feel like you also have to remember to turn it off if you didn't set the dates correctly for example, or like if you just forget to like toggle one thing I've gotten emails back from people where they're like, I'll be back in office on this date and I'm like, wait, that date was like three days ago.
You're back in office.
Yeah, that's funny.
That's actually one of my biggest fears.
I'm like, what if I set the dates wrong and like my emails don't send or like my emails don't stop sending, right?
But honestly pto coverage aside Do you have any personal guardrails on like?
How much pto is too much pto?
Or like how much vacation is too long of a vacation or anything like that?
Oh my god. I definitely do I try not to take more than two weeks of pto at a time for vacation purposes So that's like ten work days five each week and then if you can tag on like a Holiday and then that way you can save one of your PTO days So for example in February there was like President's Day if you could take PTO and tag that on it would be like kind of nice but yeah, generally I try not to take more than two weeks for vacation purposes and I also try not to take PTO too close together so like if I took two weeks in say March or something, I probably would not try to take long PTO, anything
a week or longer, for at least two or three months.
Just personally. Really?
I feel like you took so much PTO last year.
I know. But it was because it was all very separated.
So I took two weeks, I think, it was either two or one and a half weeks in March, and the next time I took PTO was in November.
Oh. It's because when I travel oh you were - Yeah when I travel domestically I usually don't take PTO because if I'm traveling domestically like the hours are about the same and if I'm hanging out with friends they probably still have work on the weekdays too.
So I'm like okay I might as well just keep working and like get stuff done, you know, not fall behind if there's no reason to take this PTO.
And then also my company usually has offices in like major cities.
So I think that's another pro cause I can still go into the office if.
Yeah, I feel like it's definitely really helpful when your company has like a more flexible RTO policy, or you're able to do that stuff remotely versus if you do have strict RTO policy that it's harder to take those domestic PTO days.
But that is really nice.
And you save so much vacation time.
I think I have similar rules as you, but it's hard. I feel like the older I'm getting, the harder it is to like adhere to these things because a lot of the time vacation might not be around my volition anymore.
I might be coordinating with like a bunch of other people's schedules, especially for things like weddings and whatnot.
It's up to the couple, right, to like really set the date and the location.
I'm realizing it's like harder and harder to try to spread it out if it's based on someone else's plans.
Yeah, but yeah, I think two and a half weeks is like the max for me.
And if it's longer than that, then hopefully I'm more tenured and feel more comfortable booking longer PTO.
Because I think that's also, you know, the longer you're at a company and the more PTO coverage you've picked up for someone else, I think it's easier to ask for longer vacation days in a row, but if you've been at a company for a shorter amount of time, it feels a little bad to ask for a really long vacation off, even if you have the hours.
Oh for sure. I think that's another personal rule.
If I'm new to a team or company, I try not to take PTO for at least the first six months or so because I feel like there's two big reasons.
One is like this is already pretty chill time and you're usually spending maybe the first couple weeks to a month ramping up, learning your role, getting to meet the people around you, your stakeholders, your teammates.
And that's like pretty valuable time, you know, learning and being at the company.
And then after that, you're, you're just like getting into the flow and I think kind of building a routine almost. So I think it's like a pretty good time to just stay there, and it's not like too stressful Hopefully you're building up your relationships So I feel like it's a pretty important time to stay and I think it also well I don't know This is just me but I feel like the perception is that maybe it looks bad if you join and immediate you're like Oh, I planned this vacation to take in like three weeks Bye guys.
Unless of course it was like a previously planned like I'm so sorry everyone like already had this plan.
I think that's a little different.
Mm -hmm, mm -hmm. It's definitely one of those things where I feel like I would also maybe like slightly judge someone if they joined and then suddenly was jet setting across the world taking like multiple weeks off.
It's like one of those things where you wish you could be like the chill person, but I think if you just don't know someone well enough that's just kind of what happens.
So then like you I also try to be mindful of that towing the balance of min -maxing PTO for the first couple of months Yeah And I think it probably also really depends on your team because I'm sure there's definitely a lot of teams who might not care They might be like oh, yeah.
This is really good downtime to take some vacation So go ahead if you want to but I feel like definitely just kind of like feel out the vibes Yeah Yeah, and also you probably just don't have many hours to spend anyway.
Oh, that's so true.
Yeah. Of course, the case is very different if you have unlimited PTO, but I just don't have experience in that field.
Question for you. Have you ever experienced the opposite where you suddenly realized like, Damn, I'm not taking enough PTO?
Not yet. So for some reason I've been like making international trips towards the end of the year, for the past three years or so.
Usually when I do those bigger international trips, I take about two weeks of PTO and so so far I've not like hit the ceiling where they're like, oh, your PTO days are capped.
Like you need to take some time off.
I don't know if that's a good or bad thing.
Yeah, I feel like recently I've been taking a ton of PTO, but I will say COVID years, my workload was super heavy.
And also, people weren't really traveling at that time, right?
Just health wise. So I remember those years, there were definitely some moments where I was like, oh my God, even if I don't go anywhere, I need to take a day off because it's too much work.
I'm working late hours.
Sometimes I was even working on like weekends.
Oh my God. So yeah I feel like there are moments in life where you just look up and you're like, I have a lot of PTO in the bank like I should spend it.
And that's something that I've had to come to terms with too.
Sometimes I have like a hoarders mentality with like PTO where I'm like oh my precious PTO like I need to save this for whatever international trip.
But I realized like sometimes if you really need a day it's worth taking it even if you don't really do anything or go anywhere.
I'm also definitely hoarder mentality for my PTO.
I mean, I've said that I've I take like vacation I'll take PTO for that but Literally if I cannot take PTO I will not take it like for example the domestic travelling I'm like, why would I take PTO for this?
I should just save you know So I totally get that and you're so right in the regular day -to -day.
I don't really think oh, maybe I'm super burnt -out I should just take a Friday off or something but when you step back and look at the big picture, it's like, oh, maybe that would help.
And it's always interesting because I think when you're really, really busy at work, there's obviously so much work that needs to get done, even just workload -wise.
The last thing I'm thinking is, oh, I should take some time off, because then you have less hours to put towards that project or whatever you're trying to accomplish before the deadline.
I always find it to be sort of like a catch -22.
I know this day off will really help, but that's also eight less hours, that I could put towards finishing something.
I don't know what the right answer is for that.
You know, what I've seen is people just save their PTO and then they get an email that says like, hey, your PTO is full, so you need to take a day off before your next paycheck.
And so they're like, OK, I guess I'm forced to take a rest date a day off.
And then they're like, that was kind of nice.
So that's what I've seen.
Maybe you don't have to actively think about it and you just wait for that email to come.
I think this year I have the opposite problem.
I've been like, running my PTO balance down to zero.
So. Oh no. It's crazy out here.
You know, there's always that period of time.
I think it's like July to August where you're like Oh August has no long weekends And then you start to think about like when is the next long weekend coming?
after the beginning of September into October That's also like a little low of like no long weekends And I think those are the times where I do seriously consider a little bit.
Oh, there's no long weekends should I just make myself one and then it depends on how busy you are and how in need of that PTO you feel but you're right.
If you're really busy or kind of like there's no time to take PTO right now but do you ever think of it like oh if you get through this busy hump you can reward yourself with like a day off?
I think I've definitely felt that way with closing a big project or something but I also think it very much depends on your field of work.
There are certain fields of work where there's no chill season, it's like a lot of recurring tasks, a lot of things that need to be done.
I think especially if anyone has worked in like supply chain or operations, the grind doesn't really stop.
So then in that field, I don't know if I like really felt like that much of a chill time or if I, if there was a chill time, it would be for like a week of the month and then it would like go back into that grind.
But I think I know what you mean about when there's not a ton of true holiday baked in, I start to really crave PTO, and that's actually the privilege that we have as people who aren't parents yet, of, oh, I can just take a day off on a random weekend in October, I don't have to adhere to Labor Day weekend, Memorial Day weekend, where all the vacation spots are so crowded already, we can kind of choose a chill weekend to go and travel somewhere.
Uh, that's so true.
I think one of my co -workers who has a daughter she is taking next week off because they're gonna go to Disneyland and I was like, oh my god, it might be...
Well, actually, I think right now it's okay -ish, but I was like a couple weeks from now it could be like busy spring break season you know but I think for them it's like ski week maybe so I'm like wait it might also still be busy like they're just you're right they're forced to follow a certain schedule.
Yeah, I'm like, honestly, counting down the years where we are still not parents, and we can, like, do these things.
I'm like, how many more Octobers can we actually travel?
But I have a couple of funny questions for you logistically.
OK. So we talked a lot about like planning for PTO the appropriate number of days you can take off that kind of stuff.
But at the end of the day, when you take time off, you have to put it into the system.
Right. and you have to put it into your calendar as well.
So question number one.
You are trying to take some time off and it's not yet set in stone but you go to like block the days off on your calendar and you see that multiple people on your team are taking that exact week off.
What do you do? Okay, well it depends.
Am I taking this PTO because I'm vacationing or just like for fun?
You're thinking, oh, maybe I should just take a trip to Hawaii, like some random weekend, and you haven't booked anything yet but you check the calendar?
So if it's holiday season or like I know it's kind of more like chill season, maybe it's right after a big event or something, the more people taking PTO the better.
But if it's busy season then I'll think twice about it.
I'll be like, oh shoot these people are gonna be preoccupied by whatever is happening in their personal lives, I don't know, like, maybe I'll move my trip out by, like, a week or something.
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like for me, too, if it's, like, last two weeks of December, I'm like, you know, everyone's gonna be off, like, no biggie.
But if it's on, like, a random week, I'd be like, okay, I probably can't take this time off.
It's kind of like first come first serve to a certain extent, I think.
Yeah, I guess it's, like, you have to, like, survey the situation a little more if more people are taking PTO, but what's really funny is like last year, last two weeks of December, it just so happened that almost everyone on my team took PTO, whether it was for travel for like family time, I don't really remember, but I was like, wow, this year in particular, there's more people taking PTO.
So I was like, okay, I'm just not going to take PTO because I wasn't traveling and it'll be chill.
Anyway, if I took PTO, it would be a waste.
so that's my order of mentality right there I've definitely felt that way too yeah it's gonna be a chill week already like I can kind of catch up on old tasks maybe work a little slower than usual there's gonna be less urgent stuff so that's in itself is already like very chill right and you could spend that time like I think I ended up spending that time prepping for the new year and like doing some of those trainings that I always forget to do I actually may be contrary to what the common vacation time is.
Like I actually rarely ever take December PTO.
If I can help it. I feel that as well.
Okay. Question number two.
You are booking an international trip, say it's like two weeks overseas or something, but you're booking it pretty far in advance.
So say you're booking it like 12 months in advance.
How early do you book that PTO into the system.
Okay. So wait, this is actually kind of funny.
I don't know why, but I don't love putting PTO into the official system too early.
So what I've started to put into practice is I'll just book those weeks out on my team calendar first. I'll just put in like Kristal out of office and then I won't officially put it into the system until maybe like at most six months out, but I'll usually give my manager a heads up.
Hey, I planned this vacation for this time, and she'll be like, okay.
Okay. I think I'm very similar to you too.
I will wait till it's like about the six month mark and then I'll put into the system.
I guess the only exception is if I know that period is like super super busy.
I'll probably give it a little bit more notice or if I know i'll truly be like unreachable during that time or something i'll start to like pepper it into conversations like oh my god i'm so excited like i booked this vacation and just keep reminding people about it so it's not like a surprise when i enter it into the system but i don't know why i feel so bad to book it really early yeah i don't know either part of it though?
i don't want to like use up my pto what if i have some random in -between pto that i want to use And I'm like, oh shoot, I just like spent all that PTO on that two weeks.
But now that I'm thinking about it, it doesn't even matter because if I spent it all, it's still accruing every couple weeks, right?
So I guess that's actually not logically anything, but I don't know, it just feels like it.
Yeah, it kind of feels like I'm like showing all my cards or something, you know, like I'm like bearing all my PTO out there being PTO vulnerable.
oh my god pto vulnerable oh my god okay i also i have a problem because i feel so bad saying no to meetings i always just say yes and if i'm not sure i just like don't respond so you know how like the out of office thing it automatically just says no to all your meetings Yeah, dude, I said it so that it does not oh Cuz you're like, I don't want to say no to this meeting even though I literally am not working I'm like, I don't wanna just announce to everyone that I'm out of office this day Dude I need to change that setting back though because What it forces me to do though is I have to go through
those days and manually say no to every single And then that makes me feel even worse You know, this actually started because I think I took a random day off to attach to a long weekend and it was like, automatically decline all calendar invites, new and old.
And it scared me so I said no. But I think I do have it set to automatically decline new ones, but not old ones.
So I have to manually decline the old ones.
It feels bad. We're different people.
I'm like, this feels great.
Like, I'm not attending any of these meetings.
Oh my God. I think it's because I, a lot of my meetings are, it's the one team meeting of the week.
And I just don't have that many meetings.
So every meeting feels like a, I should go, I'm obligated to go.
Yeah. So it feels even worse to be like, no, I'm just going to skip this because I literally have nothing else on my calendar.
Okay. I have two more rapid fire questions for you.
When you book time off on your team calendar, do you put Crystal O O O or do you put Crystal PTO?
Oh, Crystal O O O. Oh, okay.
I think it's like implied that we're taking PTO.
Yeah. Yeah. I actually matched the vibes of my team.
okay okay i'm like if this team does pto i'll do pto if this other team does oh i'll do oh you know what that's a good point i think everyone on my team just puts oh oh so if they all put pto i probably would be like blendin no need to stand out when you're taking pto facts honestly last question for you how do you feel about people who say i'm gonna be out of pocket oh my god Okay, so this is a huge thing because I looked into it because I was like, this is like not what out of pocket means, but I looked into it and I think what some people think it means is like their phone is out of their pocket.
They're going to be on vacation.
Like they're not bringing their work stuff so they're going to be unreachable and I was like, okay, I guess that does make sense.
but like why is it happening?
Here's the craziest part.
When I looked into it, it was like, older people, millennials to Boomers who are using it this a lot.
Because I think when Gen Z were using it, they're like just accidentally legitimately accidentally using it and I was like okay but then why is this coming back?
Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
Like we've been using out of office for so long like why are we bringing back this out of pocket when it can be so confused with the other meaning.
Yeah dude I feel like I have to clarify for the listeners because as soon as I brought up the phrase out of pocket or like you know people misusing out of pocket, Crystal started looking so angry.
Like your entire demeanor changed and I'm actually crying, laughing.
I didn't even realize.
But it is very interesting.
I remember once you texted me like oh my god I think these people are using out of pocket wrong to mean out of office and I was like what like that's crazy and after you texted me that I've been seeing it everywhere and every I see it it just cracks me up yeah because out of pocket for us it means like like an unhinged comment or yeah right like very like you said something really rude when people are like i'm gonna be out of pocket you're like bracing yourself like oh okay what is like the mean thing you're about to say yeah yeah like drop the mic yeah but they're actually just going to hawaii with their
kids yeah also oh oh oh does not even mean out of pocket ooo ooh is out of office, out of pocket is OOP so true there's just so many things wrong just all the signs point to you're misusing this phrase Yeah you're so like worked up.
Yeah it's because I just haven't found a satisfying answer.
You know I need to do more digging on this, because this is like the best explanation that I could find.
It's like, okay, like, your phone's out of your pocket, or you know I'm gonna be unreachable.
But I'm like, okay really?
Like I feel like that's kind of awkward phrasing too.
Like I'm going to be out of pocket versus, like, I'm just not gonna bring my work stuff.
Yeah, yeah and the only work thing that fits into your pocket is like your phone.
Yeah, your laptop doesn't fit in your pocket Exactly.
So you are not your laptop Exactly.
That's the thing, right?
So I'm kind of like mmm this phrasing just doesn't feel right.
I Dare you to call out the next person you see on slack saying I'm gonna be out.
Oh my god. I actually have not seen Someone used that in like maybe a year, so that's good.
The out -of -pocket pandemic is over.
Hopefully. Yeah, like ever since I texted you that one time, I haven't really seen it since I'm like, okay.
Maybe it was just an autocorrect or something.
Yeah. Well, I dunno, I've been seeing it on my end.
So you just passed the baton to me.
Okay. but what if it's also like it was an accident, but now it's just like people started using it ironically cause they thought it was funny and now they can't stop using it.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It's like a meme.
Yeah. I'm pretty much I'll report back if I ever find, if I ever uncover more truths about this out of pocket situation, it's an unsolved mystery.
Yeah. I have a question for you.
Yeah. So for PTO, do you leave all of your work stuff at home?
So it depends. If I'm taking a vacation like overseas, I will not bring my laptop for the most part but my phone has all of like my work stuff logged into it.
So if I need to urgently respond to an email, or like a slack buses or something, I'll have it on hand.
I'll usually turn off notifications, to be honest, but you can select it so that it's like, oh, turn off notifications unless it's from my manager or something like that.
So I'll usually toggle some sort of setting like that, but if I am going on vacation and it's local or like domestic, I will bring my laptop because then it's just like easy to bring it along with me.
Yeah, that's fair. I think I would agree with that.
I am probably of a similar pattern.
I have another final question, how long does it take you to catch up on your inbox when you come back from PTO.
Oh god wait I'm getting like anxiety just thinking about it to be honest. Okay never mind you don't have to answer.
Wait I actually feel like the corporate setting, or like your team setting is very important for this.
In my past lives I feel like it would literally take me like a week, and I would come back to like over a thousand emails just because of like the sheer nature of what my work was focused around.
There's always like all these comms going on.
I'm working with like 40 different teams. Like external people are emailing me, so it would legitimately take me like a week.
But I think in like a more chill or also like a more specialized environment, like if you're on a team that handles a couple of things and not all these different things for like everyone, then I think it would probably take me like a day or two.
I think for me it's usually around a day.
Also I'm like not super high up, so I don't have a lot of people reaching out to me directly for really important stuff.
They can always just reach out to my manager.
I think when I feel the worst though is when I'm in a long thread and I'm on PTO and every time they send an email they get my auto response.
Yeah, yeah. I'm like, I'm so sorry guys.
But yeah, I feel like those long threads are the biggest thing, right?
Because you have to like, read through everything that you missed.
Yeah, yeah. Or I have trauma from like coming back on vacation to all these emails and you open each email and it says like, oh Jisoo's on PTO till Monday, but she's back on Tuesday.
I'll have her look at this ASAP when she's back.
And there's like 40 of those.
and I'm like holy fuck how am I supposed to catch up on all of this?
Oh my god yeah that's intense yeah or the other one is like if you're on a smaller team or maybe there's like less structure in the company that you're working at, your team might not have like a distribution email you know so like if people are personally emailing you for stuff but no other people are cc'd so it's just like sitting there for the two weeks that you're out I feel like that feels really bad but as long as you know your other people are getting cc'd usually someone will take care of it yeah but sometimes people might not know who else to reach out to so it's just they're left unanswered
for multiple weeks yeah that's so true that's probably the worst part about coming back from pto catching up on the inbox yeah wait i'm like about to break out into a cold sweat oh okay we'll stop talking about it but it's always fun to come back and chat with your team members about all the fun things you did.
Wait, my favorite thing is when people come back from vacation and then they like show you photos.
I'm like, this is so cute.
It's like, IRL Instagram.
Yeah. So what I've started to, well, one time when I went on vacation, my team was like, take pictures, take pictures.
And you know me, I usually don't really take that many pictures, especially if I'm traveling like alone or maybe with like small groups.
So that time, I was traveling alone and I was like, they said it so much. Like, take pictures, take pictures.
I was like, I owe it to them.
They don't really know me that well.
I should really show them more about my like, you know, random adventures and there's no harm in sharing pictures about my personal travels.
So at that time I made a very intentional effort to take photos.
After the trip, I even made a little presentation.
Well, it was just like photos slapped on with some captions.
Yeah, but I was like here you go.
You can all look at my pictures since you all requested it So now I'm like it's kind of nice to share that.
It's a good bonding topic, too So I try to take at least couple photos that are acceptable to show to my team nowadays That is very cute I feel so shy like sharing photos, but I do I will try to take like one or two key stories Mm.
So when people are like, how's your vacation?
I could be like, Oh my God, you'll never believe what happened and blah, blah, blah.
And it's just like a talking point, auditory evidence that I actually vacationed something.
Yeah. They're like, did this person actually vacation?
They always take PTO, but they never share.
That's like me. Same.
I'm like, I'm actually traveling.
Please believe me. Well, aside from the brief moment of nausea where I was like, Oh my God, how am I going to catch up?
on my hypothetical inbox.
This has been very interesting to talk about our personal PTO rules, and it also makes me very excited for all the upcoming PTO that you and I both have for the rest of the year.
If there's any PTO tips that Crystal and I didn't cover, please feel free to reach out to us.
We have Instagram at eatyourcrespod, and we also have email eatyourcrespod at gmail dot com.
And don't forget to follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, where ever you listen to podcasts, we post new episodes every other Wednesday morning.
Thanks for listening.
And don't forget to eat your crust!
