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Hi, I'm Mayim Bialik.
And I'm Jonathan Cohen.
And welcome to part two of our conversation with Michael Singer, bestselling author of The Untethered Soul, The Surrender Experiment, Living Untethered.
In the first part of our conversation with Michael Singer, we talked about how our culture has shifted towards increased spiritual awareness and awakening.
And Michael explained how we are already all awakened.
We hope that you will listen to the first part of our conversation.
Part two of our conversation is going to go even deeper into understanding what it means to surrender, how that applies to resistance and compassion.
In addition, where does consciousness live and what happens to consciousness when we die?
Spoiler alert, Michael tells us we never really die.
All of that and so much more in part two of our conversation with Michael Singer.
Break it down.
I want to touch on something that the surrender experiment highlighted quite ahead of its time in so many ways.
And there's been a lot of conversation in the last year or so about the notion of letting everything happen right.
The let them theory that Mel Robbins came on and talked about.
But when Jonathan and I were preparing for talking to you again, Jonathan had a very interesting revelation and he said to me Michael Singer's surrender experiment was the original.
Let them meaning, do whatever is put in front of you with all your heart and soul, without regard for personal results, letting go of your needs, letting go of what you wish other people would do.
That really is the original.
Just let it be without trying to force manage manipulate, control and martyr yourself over it.
Can you give us a little bit of framework of how the surrender experiment and how really your entire journey has been one giant letting go?
Letting go.
Some people misunderstand surrender as meaning let anything happen outside that's happening, just let go and just accept it.
And so I say to those people so if a drug dealer comes up to you with heroin and says hey, you want some,
You should say yes.
Obviously not.
That is not what surrender means.
Surrender is something you do within yourself When you feel resistance coming up due to your stuff.
You understand that.
You feel it coming up in you, first surrender.
Let it go.
Relax.
Let it pass through you.
Then come down and either have a talk with the drug dealer don't bother talking to him, whatever it is.
Make a decent decision, like I talked before, right?
Based on clarity. right?
But it's not true that surrender means I did every single thing that ever got put in front of me, right?
Whatever got put in front of me, I got clear to the best of my ability.
I'm not all there, right?
But the best of my ability got clear and then tried to deal with it from a place of understanding compassion, fairness and so on.
Not me.
So surrender means letting go of yourself inside.
And then you come back And you deal with it, all right?
And yes, acceptance, again, it's not an outside thing.
It's I accept reality.
I accept that it happened.
Doesn't mean I'm not going to do something about it.
Life is an interactive sport, right?
We're interacting.
But where are you coming from?
I want you to come from clarity.
I want you to come from openness and love, right?
And then, of course, you come down and deal with it.
So the misunderstanding some people have, but most don't.
They do very, very well.
As you know, that book's done amazingly well.
It's been published in 40 countries.
You have 6 million copies of Soul, right?
And people write me all the time.
Karen, it's just two of us, all right?
And almost 70% of every single email we get says, thank you.
You changed my life.
I didn't change anybody's life.
I told you to let go, right?
And what you let go of is what's ruining your life.
And what's left does all come together.
It does unfold amazingly how the universe is perfect.
There's two very important points and ideas in what you describe that some people might need a little bit more description about.
The first is being aware of when resistance starts to come up.
It's a somatic concept that a lot of people aren't aware of, because they immediately go to either pushing it down, dealing with it, a mental process of analyzing it.
They're not even aware of what resistance is or when it starts to happen.
So that's the first part.
Can you talk about the awareness of resistance as a fundamental and like first principle step in this process?
You are not. going to be able to take some big thing.
Your kid's doing drugs.
Your wife's leaving you.
There's major... You're not going to be able to just be right there, right then.
There's going to be this tremendous reaction inside.
You're going to get lost and fight and struggle.
I understand that.
Of course, I understand that, right?
But if it's raining out and you need to get out and deliver some papers, you don't have Get upset.
You know you don't have to, right?
But you're going to tend to.
There's going to be this resistance or the driver in front of you, right?
They use this nice blinker, buddy, right?
These tiny little things, you practice there.
And you actually bother to say, if I'm going to play tennis and I hit it into the net, I'm going to turn my hand a little bit right.
And get better at it.
I'll practice with a coach, right?
That's what you're doing with letting go.
You're practicing with the low-hanging fruit.
That's what living in tether gets you into, all right?
And if you do that, you'll get good at it.
Of course, I don't have to complain it is raining.
It's just stupid.
I just got in the habit of doing it, right?
Well, I'll use affirmation.
I'll use this, whatever it is.
I'll let go, right?
The next thing you know, you'll be better next.
And so, all of a sudden, the gap between the resistance, the energy resistance coming up and you reacting to it will become greater.
You start realizing, I don't have to do this.
And now all of a sudden you're in a relationship with your spouse, with a significant other, right?
And you start feeling this resistance, this coming up, right?
And you realize, that's from my bad day at work.
That really has nothing to do with what conversation we're having, right?
I need to dump this stuff.
And you'll realize you have a moment.
At first, it's just a moment of consciousness that says, I don't want to do that.
I don't have to do that.
It's hard, right?
And you take a breath.
You do all the different stuff you talk about.
Every time you do it, you get better at it.
Just like every time you play the piano, you get better at it.
You hear me?
That's how you do it.
Not how do I handle these terrible situations that I can't handle, all right?
You start by learning to handle the simple ones.
And next thing you know, you graduate.
Well and I think that's also an important point that, in the same way that you cannot control the reins, you cannot control whether it's raining or not.
The exact same way that you cannot control that, you cannot control other people, right?
So all the places that we try and insert ourselves and we think we can cure it, and what if we hide the liquor?
Then they won't drink it.
Or if we get our breasts done, they'll like us more.
Whatever it is that we're trying to control, is It's literally the same thing, as do you think you can control the weather?
And when people say to me oh, I don't know if I believe in God and I believe in science, I say, if you believe that you can control the weather, you are your own higher power.
You've just decided that you're God.
If we all agree that we cannot control the weather, we're all on the same plane and there has to be something larger than us that's in charge, which is very freeing.
I don't have to control it anymore.
I don't have to spend all of my energy trying to make it not rain when it's raining.
And then, if you go back to that little moment of discussion we had about the quantum field, let's see you control the quantum field.
But you just said you're a scientist.
It is all the quantum field coming up, right?
Okay, I'm done.
Just like that.
That's why I have people, regular people, I talk about the quantum field.
Not because I want to understand it or learn about it.
I want to understand do you really believe you're going to go down to those wavelets right that the super colliders have found?
Are there right?
And that that's the foundation of every single thing you're experiencing, everything, right?
And you're going to control it?
Ha, ha, ha.
And you let go?
You're free.
We can't control it, but we can observe it, which potentially changes it slightly.
That's true.
I don't want to discuss this law of attraction stuff.
My position of law of attraction is as follows.
How did you decide what you want to attract to you?
Because I know your stuff.
Because a great being doesn't want to attract anything.
They couldn't care less.
You understand that?
They're already in ecstasy.
Everything's beautiful, right?
But if you're not okay and you want a car or a new spouse or a new job, right, you can.
You can put out energy to attract it.
And by all means, do so, especially if you're depressed.
If it doesn't happen, you know, I want you to be happy, right?
But I want you at some point to look and say, how did I decide I needed that?
And how often did you detract yourself and then realize you don't need it, right?
It's just, it's bigger than do you have a power of attraction?
The question is, why are you using it?
Because I'm not okay.
Do you understand that?
The only reason I'm using it is I'm not okay.
And I think by getting what I want, I'll be okay.
And you will for a while.
We'll see what happens, right?
I would love for you to read my books.
Listen the podcast.
I have a podcast out there like a single podcast.
It's not like this.
It's not lecture, it's my lectures that i give you the temple.
They get put out every tuesday and thursday, all right, and if you listen to them, what you hear is i can do better with myself.
I can do better with this.
It's not about getting what you want exactly what maya said.
It's not about getting what you want right.
It's about honoring and respecting what is and being blown away that it even is.
I want to ask one question about another term that is getting thrown around a lot, but I think you have a lot of clarity about it that we would like to hear.
The notion of consciousness being outside of our body, our physical body, the notion of a collective consciousness, a greater consciousness.
And we've talked about this a lot in terms of you know the Akashic Records tradition and can we tap into something right?
But we're particularly interested.
Since we first spoke to you, we've spoken to a lot of people who have had very exceptional experiences with altered consciousness, and some have been psychedelic, but others have been people like physicist Thomas Campbell.
They've been transcendental.
We've spoken to a lot of people with profound and documented near-death experiences where they are witnessing a consciousness separate from their physical body.
In terms of how you understand this higher self, the observing self, Where is consciousness?
It's very easy for you, for example, to say oh well, the mind is something that we construct and it's outside of the body.
How can you help us understand where consciousness is and what happens, let's say, when we die?
Is it still there?
I'm honored that you asked the question, right?
Now, but be willing to listen.
We talked about how science has shown there's this field of which everything emanates out right, the bosons are all the forces that we know about, and the quarks and leptons.
It all just puts itself together right.
So that's a layer of a field, not particles.
It's the field of energy of something.
What's it made of?
I told you, the great masters didn't go out there and study science, They went into caves.
The ancient rishis, right.
And they studied consciousness.
Why?
Because I'm conscious.
We're not going to study consciousness out there.
We're not going to study consciousness out there.
There's just stuff out there, right?
I am aware of being aware.
I am that I am, right?
I am going to practice letting go of the object of consciousness so I can experience the source of consciousness.
And what they found was, to argue it, that they are that consciousness.
So that's one way to look at it, the quantum field up.
The other is, the Bible would just find, in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God.
It's not hard to think that the Word is the Aum, or Amen, or a vibration.
In the beginning was the word.
What's the word?
A vibration.
Vibrating in the consciousness of the universe.
The one consciousness of the universe created a vibration.
And that's your quantum field, by the way.
I don't expect them to understand it.
It's okay, right?
But that primal vibration, in the beginning, there wasn't a beginning.
It's infinite, right?
But in the beginning of what you see as creation, the Bing Bang, whatever you want to call it, right.
When form came into being, in the beginning was a vibration, and the words was with God.
That consciousness created that vibration, And from the vibration, all the form emanated, right?
And then the conscious looks down into the form it created.
So when you ask me, where is consciousness?
That's all there is.
It's all consciousness.
It's all made of consciousness.
It's looking, there's nothing but consciousness.
God alone is real, okay?
That's the real answer, but that's a lot bigger than you were asking, okay?
But that's the real answer, right?
If all the form is made of consciousness, What is experiencing it?
Consciousness.
Awareness is what experiences things, right?
Now you understand that consciousness is what made the things.
Therefore, it's like when you go to sleep, right?
You made the buildings.
You made the relationships.
You made the issues.
You made the fights.
You made war.
You made every single thing out of what out of one field of mind.
Buddhists call it mind, people call it consciousness.
I don't care right.
But it's all made of you, isn't it?
That's what's happening here, okay?
God has created the entire universe and has come down to play in himself, to come down and experience it right.
Then how come he fell from the garden?
Because he, you know, I don't want to take the apple, I don't want to do that, right?
He got lost, He got lost in ego.
He stared at himself enough to start to identify what he was looking at, instead of identifying with who's looking.
Listen to that, right?
You identify what you're looking at, your thoughts, your emotions, your form, right?
Instead of identifying with who's looking at it, okay?
When you awake, it doesn't do it.
It's funny.
Like I said, I read the Bible once, but I love that it keeps coming back, all right?
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The story about Adam in the garden, this is, of course, my version, all right?
God's walking around the garden.
God's everything.
He's everywhere.
There's nothing there but God, okay?
And he says, Adam, where are you?
You're me.
I don't understand.
Where are you?
And Adam said, I'm hiding.
Whoa, that's pretty deep.
How do you hide from God?
Stare at form instead of sitting back as to who's looking at it. okay?
And you get lost, but real power.
And they said, where are you?
I'm hiding.
And Adam stands up and God says, whoa, what's that thing around your waist?
Didn't he say that, right?
And Adam said, I was naked.
That is so deep.
Every animal's naked.
Everything's naked, right?
But ego identified with form, so much so that it used the word I to talk about what it was looking at.
Where is consciousness?
That's all there is.
It's just the dance of consciousness.
Is consciousness looking at consciousness, experiencing consciousness?
Christ said what?
Not a hair on your head moves that God doesn't know.
Not a sparrow falls from the tree.
Because he is the tree.
He is the sparrow.
It's not like there's a guy sitting back there with a beard.
Okay?
It's the whole universe is the expression of the divine consciousness.
And we are that also.
But we're busy staring at this little, tiny little thing.
Right or wrong?
Yeah.
One of my favorite mystical quotes that I've mentioned here is they say that if God stopped thinking about us for one second, we would not exist, that there's a constant creation that is going on as we are in this.
But you didn't answer my hardest question.
What happens to that consciousness when we die?
There is no death.
There's no death.
My God, give me a break.
There's just consciousness expressing.
What happens to the music when the notes stop being played?
It's still there.
Nothing dies.
Nothing was ever born.
It's just we stare at it as a separate thing.
And we think we're separate from it.
Therefore, we think we die.
You think your ego dies, your mind dies, your body dies, right?
There's no death.
There is no death.
There's just consciousness, changes, vibration rate, okay, going to higher.
At some point, you can't even talk about it, right?
Because we're framing it in words that can't answer the question.
You're framing that I'm separate and I die, right?
There is no dying.
The Gita talks about it beautifully, all right?
Krishna's talking to Arjuna, and Arjuna's arguing, I don't want to fight this battle.
I don't want to kill people.
I don't want to do this.
You know the story, right?
And Krishna says to Arjuna, he says, what are you doing, right?
There's no death.
Weapons can't reach the self.
It's back there watching them, right?
And waters can't overwhelm it, and fires can't burn it.
It's just the awareness that is looking at form.
So the awareness doesn't go anywhere else.
Hopefully, but where it goes, I don't like to talk about it.
It goes to a higher plane.
What does that mean?
Right?
Again, the Bible says in my father's house, there are many mansions.
I never understood that before.
Now I do.
There's different planes of reality.
Right?
Okay?
And fine, your soul evolves to a certain consciousness, evolves to a certain point.
It can't merge yet.
It's not ready to merge yet.
So it goes to heaven, it goes here, it goes to different places, right?
Until it's ready to merge back into the divine consciousness and become one with God.
My Father and I are one.
Somebody said that, didn't they?
I thought I heard those once before.
Actually, I looked at it and I said, I and my Father are one.
I have to say it right.
I and my Father are one.
It's very interesting because with many of these ancient references to Judaism, to Christianity, to Islam, these very old religions, to Buddhism, to Hinduism, there's a very, very strong mystical and spiritual through line.
And so many of us are taught religious practice that is very dogmatic and It's very based in obedience.
It's very much based in threat and fear.
And the fact is that's actually not the original intention of any of these religious traditions.
It's so significant to be able to hear and for me as someone who studied Old Testament text and those texts We are taught about how much mysticism is woven through our text, but it's so damaging to so many people to be taught the manipulation of those traditions.
And that's what so many of us are living out.
It's what so many of us are rebelling against and rallying against and saying, this isn't for me.
I'm not that person.
I'm not religious.
I'm spiritual.
Guess what?
Religion used to be spiritual before it was co-opted by, forgive me, the capitalist patriarchy.
Of course.
That's so beautiful that you see that.
It's true.
And the epitome really is Christ, right?
Did you know Christ was spiritual?
The highest spiritual being that ever descended down to earth.
He was born enlightened, right?
Born the king of angels.
They say it.
But then they have one person, a hand on a cross somewhere, right?
No, he's everything.
He's one with God.
One of my favorite things, how I remember this from 1970, I have no idea.
But during the Last Supper, There was a discussion between the disciples and Jesus, all right?
And at some point, Jesus said, I won't be with you anymore, all right?
This is it, all right?
And one of them said, right, no, I want to go with you.
We want to go with you.
And he said, where I go, I'm going to cry.
Where I go, you cannot follow.
Why?
He ain't there yet, baby.
You understand that?
You still see yourself as a human being with your own thoughts and feelings and emotions, right?
And where I am, right, is merged with the whole universe.
My father and I are one.
You see why he said, where I go, you can't follow?
But you can.
You can.
I know this is a deep cut here, but in the Narnia books right, it's an allegory of this notion, right.
And that's what I've seen in the movies.
That is that notion of also the pain of when you experience that enlightenment, when you experience elevation.
It's very hard in many cases to be among people, right?
Also on a smaller scale.
A lot of people say like, well, what's Michael Singer doing?
He must just sit all by himself all day.
No, you're engaged in the world.
You've had business experience.
Like you're a living person.
I wonder if you've ever like changed a tire or like what happens when you go to the supermarket and they're out of milk.
But like you live among people and we can as well, right?
This is not enlightenment for someone sitting on top of a mountain.
This is the wisdom that gets brought down from the mountain.
Now I have a surprise for you as we're running out of time.
I didn't tell you because I'm not telling anybody, but I didn't want to.
I said I wasn't going to, but I wrote another book, okay?
And it will be published in March, all right?
And its title is Wisdom Untethered, The Time for Questions.
I assure you, because I know you some, you will love the book.
I haven't talked about it.
The publisher has it.
It's going to be published in March, like I said.
There is one, three paragraphs that I specifically want to read to you guys.
And I've not done that before.
When I sent it to the publisher, I told them only you can read it until we talk about it, all right.
But I'm going to read this for you.
They say God is love.
Is that true?
Can I experience that directly?
There are many different levels of love.
The love that is experienced as need is a human emotion caused by the heart being blocked to the inner flow of Shakti.
When the heart is unconditionally open, you will never feel the need for love, because your heart will remain full of love regardless of what is happening.
Such an open heart is difficult for people to achieve because they've stored pain from the past that creates blockages to the inner energy flow.
This is why people need special outcome conditions in order for the heart to open.
Let's call that human love.
It's still beautiful, especially compared to the other human emotions, but it's conditional and it can create dependencies and attachments.
Spiritual love is very different.
Once the heart learns to remain open even under difficult circumstances, the flow of unhampered energy through the heart feeds the indwelling soul directly.
Because you are now fulfilled inside, you don't have to constantly control the outside.
You're deeply content experiencing the inner flow of love.
Eventually, You will want to explore the source of this beautiful energy.
The only way to explore the source is by falling into it.
When you do so, you'll become completely immersed in overwhelming love, joy, and bliss.
This is the point where the Shakti flow changes direction.
You'll begin to feel a tremendous upward flow pulling you beyond your sense of individuality.
It feels like God is calling you home.
And that is exactly what is happening.
The great ones have let go completely and their drop of consciousness has merged back into the ocean of consciousness.
This is Christ's, I and my father are one.
This is Buddha's nirvana.
This is Islam Sufi's fana, the complete dissolution of the ego self in the presence of God.
This is the Jewish Kabbalah's betul hayesh, dissolving the ego self into divine nothingness.
This is enlightenment.
This is the meaning of all of life.
Beautiful.
I'll just say that I'm very excited for the book.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
And we are extremely honored and we're very excited for it.
I have a whole Michael Singer section of my library and almost all of your books, I think, are blue.
Is the new one blue as well?
I haven't seen the cover.
It hasn't been made yet.
Okay, well, the rest of the Michael Singer section is blue, so we'll see.
Your Untethered Soul book has a very significant role in why mayim and i are doing this podcast, and so we'll see what the next one uh brings it could.
It could spawn the next many years of this.
I want to spawn the merger, Mayim told me in the last interview.
She cried and she said I want to go there.
I want to experience that.
Of course you do.
You're a great soul.
And you will experience that.
And the more you open and do what I taught, the more you let go of Mayim.
You don't have to let go of your career.
It has nothing to do with that.
But you let go of what's holding in there, keeping it together.
And all of a sudden you find out there's nothing to keep together.
It's all one.
It's all merged.
Thank you so much.
Really an honor to get to speak to you again.
And we're so thrilled.
We can't wait to see all of the things that come in, especially the book.
We cannot wait.
So thank you so much.
Beautiful.
What a nice conversation.
I love talking to you guys.
Remember the title?
The title is Wisdom Untethered, The Time for Questions.
Like I said, that's all we've done here is ask questions.
All right.
Very good.
Here's what I want to talk about from this episode.
The notion of understanding when we feel resistance.
Because intellectually, what he described totally makes sense, right?
Once it gets into the intellectual process of there's rain.
Okay, easy.
I don't like rain.
Oh, I feel upset about something.
But I think we are all processing and operating on a reactive model, right?
Like you and I have talked a lot about the difference between reaction and response.
When we're reacting, there's a somatic... physical experience that is happening.
Usually there's a tightness, there's a constriction, there could be a shortness of breath, there could be a clenching, there could be an anger, there could be like, as we resist, as we have resistance, there's a physical sensation that we get that may even precede the mental anger, annoyance or justification for that feeling.
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I think that most people go through their lives not realizing that what resistance even feels like in their body.
I think that most people either never learn it like for reals yo, if you have a parent that was born between the years like 1940 and 1963, they may never learn it, and that's okay.
They're on their own journey.
But many people A do not know how to be in touch with their body.
So we've talked about how I don't know when my feet are hot, right?
So like that's an example or you think I can't tell when water is too hot.
I'm just like in survival mode, like must get clean.
But beyond that, I think, even before we get into the somatic, I don't think that most people are trained to understand that Any strong emotion, positive or negative, is going to move through you at a course of usually a few minutes, meaning if it's not perpetuated, it's going to move through you.
There's a chemical rise that occurs.
And it's easier to think about it with negative emotions.
But all of these things They're going to move through you.
So the reason that sometimes we feel like lashing out with our words, with our fists, or throwing something, is because we're getting a huge surge.
And you can call it shame.
You can call it anger.
It's actually a huge surge of a bunch of chemicals that are designed to make you fight.
That's almost always true. resistance.
So when someone says something that hurts your feelings, that also brings up resistance for us.
It doesn't mean that you don't defend yourself.
It doesn't mean that you have to believe them, but it means that the emotions coming up, right?
Salt only hurts when there's a wound.
If something gets activated in you, there's something that hasn't yet been worked out, right?
And I think that's what Michael is sort of communicating, kind of through all of this.
The idea is not that if someone insults you, you say that's nice.
Thank you.
The idea is to say they have a perspective that comes from their entire worldview.
I don't have to take that personally because I have a strong sense of who I am.
What like what would that be like?
Absolutely.
And I want to slow it down a couple steps.
Even before, that is, someone insults you.
You don't even realize you're insulted most of the time.
You may just slap back or shut down.
You have an immediate reaction instead of a response.
Right.
And this is when we talk about the book Difficult Conversations.
There's what happened.
There's what we think happened.
And then there's what actually gets activated.
So if I say to you, You know, you were late and I'm really pissed off at you that you were late.
So there's the fact that you said you'd be somewhere and you weren't.
Then there's you saying she's hurt and now I feel attacked.
But what's actually going on is likely something that you either programmed in or was programmed into you.
I'm not reliable.
So that when I say you didn't show up on time, what you hear is you're not reliable.
You're not worthy.
You're not lovable.
You don't matter.
When actually what it was was.
I expected you to be there at a time, and it's disappointing that you weren't there.
So we are all operating, right?
What's that t-shirt people wear?
Like, what if you don't know what's going on in someone's life?
We're all operating. maybe except Michael Singer, we're all operating at that level.
And it's that third level that can be healed, that can get some of this work done to it.
When he says do the work.
You don't just magically wake up in touch with the consciousness.
That is divine.
There's work to be done.
That level becomes less vulnerable and it becomes less scary.
So that if someone says I expected you to be there on time, you don't hear I'm unworthy, I'm unlovable, I'm going to fight back and here's why I was late, right.
What you hear is, I understand that was disappointing.
Here are the things I'm going to do so that doesn't happen again.
That must have felt really challenging.
Absolutely.
Everything you're saying, I 100, more than 100% agree.
That's what people say before they disagree with something.
I just think there are a few levels and layers to this before we even get there.
Because what you described is a...
Complicated cognitive process.
What was said?
How do I see it?
And I've learned so much in our conversations about figuring out what did I actually think it meant?
Like that third layer is if you can spend your time unpacking that third layer, you will learn so much about the programming and the thorns that you're holding inside.
Right.
Like Michael Singers, in our first conversation with him talked about you know, this time he used garbage.
The first time he said thorns and that we all have these thorns and we do everything possible to avoid anyone touching the thorn because it activates.
So a lot of that third layer of conversation, what we think people are saying, are actually touching the thorns that we have, that we've grown up with our insecurities.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like in psychology, it's our organizing principles. we're kind of programmed with.
But I wasn't trying to deny the somatic component.
I just think that a lot of people are not in touch with that either.
Let's unpack it because as you start to be more aware of it, you can calm it down faster.
You don't even have to go into.
This person said that.
The other thing, because it's a very It expends a lot of energy and may take some time and people may not be able to dive and get clarity as to what it is.
They think they heard.
Well, yeah.
And the fact is trying to figure something out.
Right.
Which is not a slogan.
As we say, trying to figure something out when you are in an activated, agitated state is the number one way to is the number one way to not figure it out.
So what do you think people are going to tell you to do?
That's why we're telling you to learn how to breathe.
That's why we're trying to tell you how to stimulate your vagus nerve.
These are all the things that physiologically put us in a state of emotional and psychological availability.
This is where I was going and what I think he skipped over in terms of the process, of how you get there.
If you're someone who is starting to say, let me bring myself back, let me...
Stop that cycle that we're all addicted to.
Right.
Oh, I've got the top three things to do.
Top three things to do when you start to become aware that you are experiencing resistance or you're becoming activated.
Lime.
Tell us the top three and I'll see where they land in my top three.
OK, so my top three the most powerful tool that I've been taught.
One of the most powerful tools I've been taught as an adult.
Pause.
Pause.
Yep.
Ding, ding, ding.
Do not open your mouth.
Don't open your mouth.
Don't open.
You're going to want.
You're going to want to because you're going to want to say, you're going to want to say all the things that that person has done wrong.
Correct.
Correct. one of the acronyms that you can use for pause, postpone action until serenity ensues.
What if the instruction was anytime that you feel agitated hurt scared, upset or confused?
Or What if the first thing you did was just to pause?
Don't ask for more information.
Don't seek more information.
Don't apologize.
Don't grovel.
Don't put your dukes up.
Just pause.
That's my first.
Valerie just said, I'd be waiting forever.
Catch me on my deathbed.
So once you're pausing...
My number two thing to do is to tap into your breath.
And you might think that's ridiculous.
My heart is beating so fast.
I can't breathe.
Like I want to just like scream.
This is the time to engage your parasympathetic nervous system.
That's why it was given to you.
Your body has a built in mechanism to calm yourself down.
And I don't mean like calm down.
I mean, the body has a built in system to take the blood away from the parts of you that want to run, kick and scream and put it in the parts of you that need to be quiet and to rest and to tap into breath.
Now, Jonathan may have more insight on this.
I would say the primary thing to do is to breathe into your belly.
If you have one thing you do after pausing, it's to breathe into your belly.
When we're agitated and upset, we breathe like up here, right?
You're not getting enough oxygen.
You're not releasing all the oxygen you need to breathe into your belly.
Pretend like you're inflating a balloon in your belly.
Do that, I don't know, I'm going to say 10 times when really agitated.
You can sometimes tell even within three that your vagus nerve will start to be like oh, they need to chill out.
If you are breathing like that, you cannot be in danger and your body knows that.
This breath means slow your heart down.
Your blood pressure comes down.
You'll stop like tingling and vibrating.
That's number two, breath.
Very good.
Another breath that we have actually posted an Instagram video about when, I think, we actually went to the TikTok studio.
We did a tour and for some reason we did a breath video.
It was the double inhale breath where you do a very big inhale.
You think that you're done.
Then you do an extra sip.
And a long exhale, and that has been shown to also help calm down.
I have another one other than breath, but keep going.
My number three would be, and also just want to give a shout out.
I did write.
I wrote a piece for Substack From Chaos to Calm How to Reboot Your Nervous System, where I talk a little bit more about some of these.
But in this moment, my number three would be to notice.
So once you start breathing and once your body sort of gets into a less agitated state, and also I just want to go ahead and say this is not convenient.
The convenient thing to do when someone pisses you off is to tell them right there and then.
The convenient thing to do when someone says can we be exclusive, would be to say yes, that's the convenient thing to do.
Once any big emotions coming up and you're pausing, it's not convenient.
So you may want to also learn a bunch of tools to be able to say I need some time to think about that.
I'll get back to you.
Number three is to notice.
So the next tool that you have been given is the ability to notice what is happening in your body.
And you might think, well, I don't know.
I don't think that's exactly the problem.
We all have this capacity.
And physiologically, when we're tuning in to just noticing, not trying to change it, not trying to name it, just noticing sensations in your body is It moves your brain from an active, like doing phase to an observing phase.
That is more restorative.
It lets your immune system kick in.
It lets all of these properties that you need to actually respond to things.
It lights all of that up.
So noticing would look literally something like typically you would close your eyes.
You've got this breath going and you would just start noticing.
Do you feel your feet on the ground?
Do you feel your tush? on the seat if you're sitting.
Do you feel any other sensations in your body?
And the goal is not to name them and say like, ooh, this hurts.
It's just to say, what does it hurt?
Oh, I'm feeling some tension in my hamstring, right?
Because my hamstring sometimes acts up, right?
You're just noticing these things.
That is going to encourage, again, your nervous system to start chilling out.
Now, you might be thinking, I don't have time to do this every time something bothers me.
A lot of this stuff becomes much more rapid, much more intuitive and you can tap into it much easier with everybody's favorite word practice.
This is not something I'm going to tell you once and you're going to do it.
You don't get to try it and say it didn't work.
That's like saying I tried to read when I was four years old.
It didn't work.
I can't do it.
This is a muscle you have to exercise.
The more you do it, the more you have this kind of vocabulary in your head, the quicker it happens and you will be able to do that.
You'll be able to do it quickly.
I've seen Jonathan do it where he's really really, you know, upset or intense about something and he can just bring it down.
And it often will take him approximately 10 seconds, 15 seconds.
I still need more time because I'm not as practiced at it.
I sometimes need 10 minutes.
I need to say I'm going to take a walk and think about that, or I'm not happy with what's happening in my body right now.
I'm going to take a break and I'll be back.
And if someone is going to go, do that.
Do not encourage them to maintain whatever conversation there is going on.
Oh, they'll be like, no, we're not done.
Let's get over.
You are in charge of your body and where it is.
You're allowed to say, I understand you want to talk about this.
I understand you're not done with this conversation.
I'd like to return to it when I am more capable of doing so.
That's an I statement.
That's a great line.
I'm going to add one more piece in here, which is If you still need help after all of this jumping and dead arms.
Like literally shaking our bodies as though an animal shakes stuff off.
It feels ridiculous.
Lots of people are self-conscious.
Dead arms are literally like your arms.
You don't hold them at all.
You drop them to their side.
And then you start shaking your torso and body and your arms just are flailing about.
Ah, jumping also.
And then jumping also.
Two-legged jumps if you're able to.
Yeah, this is something in Kundalini that we do.
This is one of the movements.
It dispels energy.
It moves it from the core of the body kind of out.
It's this sort of notion.
And yes, it's one of the things that we've observed about animals that do not experience this ptsd for the most part um, animals when they are scared, or if you've ever seen a deer being chased or a any you know prey being chased by a predator, once they are safe they do this like weird crazy, shaky thing um, and yeah, it's thought to be dispelling kind of that energy.
Also, sometimes we shake when we're scared.
It's also a way of kind of we think you know, kind of trying to dispel some of that energy.
Archie will do that if he's at the dog park or crosses a path with a dog and a dog will scare him or snap at him and someone's aggressive, he'll remove himself from the situation and then there's a big shake that happens.
Someone on our team asks, does that happen after you give birth?
So...
A shivering, a shaking and a shivering is is not not surprising or uncommon after something like birth.
Birth is very, you know it's a very big trauma to the system, but also I don't really want to call it necessarily a trauma.
It's a big shock to the system.
And that process has a lot of hormones.
So there's also a lot of that that can happen also during labor and also after birth.
Another method, if you don't feel like you can jump safely, your body just has been out of practice.
If you don't feel dead arms could work for you, literally just shaking your hands like this can be a starting point.
And if you don't want to jump, you can be in a seated position or a standing position and just raise on your toes and let your heels drop really heavy.
So even right now, I can do that just sitting down, raising my heel and letting it drop.
In one of our Substack Live conversations that we had just for the Breaker community, I had a hot take and I want to revisit that hot take in light of this conversation about processing trauma and the idea of letting go right.
So we just talked about the idea of starting to become aware of the sensation as it starts to come up, as you experience resistance, some strategies to calm the system, but also, you know, like so many people are in a state where they are carrying something that is impeding their life in a way that has some significant detriment, whether it be mood energy fear, inability to form relationships.
It's impacting sleep.
And we talk about all the different strategies.
We know about seeing a therapist and emotional processing, EMDR medications, all of that.
But, you know, from Michael's perspective, he says, let it go.
How would you begin to even talk to someone who is down the path of processing trauma, evaluating it from every perspective, and reconcile that with simply letting it go, practicing letting it go and shifting your perspective?
And then I'll get to what I thought my hot take was after that.
So I think some of this is the difference in what Michael talked about, with kind of surrendering being an internal process, versus still confronting the outside world.
So I think there's kind of two things that are going on.
I think when we talk about letting the world happen and not having resistance to it, I think that applies to interactions.
When it comes to our own personal work, There is, of course, I think, an aspect of acceptance that's needed self-compassion in many cases, compassion for those who've hurt us, which is a very complicated process and one that should be done with the help, you know, I would say, of a licensed, you know, a clinical therapist or trauma worker.
But I think the notion is for many of us, The resistance we have in the outside world is because of the wounds that we carry in our inner world.
And so we can't disregard that there's work to be done processing healing, trauma work, cord cutting medication, whatever it is.
Once that you know garbage or those thorns right get sorted out a bit more, we then have the ability to let more go, because our inner world doesn't have all these places of personal resistance, so that when we encounter it in the outside world, we're freer to bring all of ourself to even hard situations.
I like that.
I like as we're processing it, then we have more ability to let go.
Sometimes there's so much of an overload to the system that we're clenching, we're holding on, we're reacting and maybe we're caught in a cycle of reactivity, but starting to notice and bring our regulation more under control, we have the ability to start noticing.
The other thing.
My hot take was What if just having more positive experiences in the bank however, you define positive things that you enjoy, appreciation for the things that you do have, having more moments of awe that we talked about and the challenge that we put forward to the community to start noticing those moments and sharing them with one another.
Having the appreciation, having more experiences of love, start to increase our ability to let go, because we're starting to tip the scales and the balance.
It's beautiful um, and i think that that really is also the notion of sort of like it is.
It's tipping the balance um and, and i don't know, stacking the chips in our favor right, for more optimal functioning and reacting.
It also creates momentum, right.
Like we know that momentum carries us.
If we're in a state where we're attacking all the time, then we're more prone to continue that state versus, as we practice, calming that starts to wire us.
We start to be able to know that Oh, when I start to feel this thing, these are the activities I do.
And it becomes second nature.
I feel really lucky that we got to speak to Michael Singer again and um Yeah, there was a lot of new stuff here and a lot of really good reminders.
And I'm in such a different place than I was when we first spoke to him.
So I especially appreciated I don't know hearing some of the conversation about, especially about consciousness and divinity, really with a new lens.
So really, really thrilled that we got to speak with him again.
Yeah, it was really a pleasure.
I was so excited.
I think for the Breaker community on Substack.
I would love for you to dive in to some of the science and the mysticism of how we do not see with our eyes, how there is a science that explains the fundamental nature of consciousness and the fact that all the particles atoms, neutrons are really just forming themselves and playing to create shapes.
It's a fascinating look that he sort of touched on, but explained that he wasn't the expert on.
Maybe you can talk about the neuroscience on Substack for us.
I would love to do that.
I mean, he did a pretty good job, but I would love to talk more also about what it really means to say that what we're seeing is actually not reality.
I'd love to get into that as well.
So we'll do that over on Substack.
We hope people will join us over there.
And from our breakdown to the one we hope you never have.
We'll see you next time.
Do you remember the story of what happened when I got into a car that was not mine?
What?
I went back in the back in the old days when you used to go to an office, to go to therapy, before everything was on Zoom.
My therapist had an office. at the corner of Sawtelle and Santa Monica.
It's a great intersection in Los Angeles.
There's a little Japanese part of town there, great restaurants, great sushi.
It's a wonderful part of town.
Happened to be where her office was.
I feel like I've told the story again, but we're just going to go for it because it's cray-cray, cray-cray.
I've been a part of almost every single episode we've done.
I think I've missed three or four.
This story has never been told.
So I come out of therapy.
I have done the things that I do in therapy.
I'm talking, and I go to get in my car.
And at this time, I had a... Whatever.
I had an Audi.
It was an A4.
So it's a car that a lot of people definitely have, but whatever.
So I go to get in my car.
I get in my car.
You know I unlock it.
Right, this is an important part of the story.
I unlock it, I get in my car, I sit down and the first thing I notice is like it doesn't.
Something smells different.
It didn't smell bad, but I was like that's a weird smell.
That's not a smell that I'm familiar with.
The next thing that happens is I look down and on the passenger seat there's a book, And it's not important what the book was.
It is a book that I know of, but I can't remember what it was at this time.
And the first thing I thought was, who put this book in my car?
The second thing I thought was did someone break into my car and leave a book on the passenger seat?
Because I'm like supposed to read this book.
And the third thing I thought was, this is fucking not my car.
I had let myself into another Audi that was parked right next to where my Audi was parked.
The smell I was smelling was the smell of another human being who owned that car.
Like, the second I got in the car, my unconscious was like, this is not your car.
It doesn't smell like you.
It's not your things.
But that's how long it took. my brain to say, oh, no one broke into your car and left a book.
This is someone else's vehicle.
And then I got really freaked out, because the next thing I thought was I'm going to be arrested for sitting in someone else's car.
Like the things that went through my head, it's something you think you'd know how to handle.
You'd be like, this isn't my car.
I'm not going to get into it.
Nope.
I was in the seat, putting on my seatbelt, ready to start it.
So I was panicked because like, I'm going to get arrested and I'm like I'll be in prison and no one will bail me out.
That's where it went.
I got the fuck out of that car.
And then I noticed that my car is right next to it.
Then I uncherped it.
It was probably unlocked.
So apparently this had been happening that some sensors could open more than one car.
I entered a totally different portal.
What if I took my house key?
I could be someone else's wife.
I could have different children just walk into their house.
Maybe I eat meat.
You know, now that you tell this story, I do think you've told it before.
I don't remember what episode, because I told also the story of how, when we were in like second grade, we had a garage clicker that opened the garage across the street from how we pulled out of the school.
I would walk all the way around Toronto and be like, where else can I go?
What can I get into?
Like, where am I going to go?
Well, we were horrible children and someone.
One day we were pulling out of the driveway and we were waiting to turn left.
So there was, and the person of the house walked out of the house and And they had opened the garage, and then they walked out of the house and we closed the garage.
And they're like watching the garage.
They're like, what?
You could have closed it on them.
And then they go back in the house, and they open the garage, and then we closed it again.
Oh, no, that would be my full-time job.
I'd be like, Mom, I can't go to second grade because I need to sit here and do this all day.
If someone has heard this and is a longtime listener and knows what episode it's from, tag us.
Maybe you'll win a prize.
We'll send you an MBB hat.
