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Hey, I'm Gianna Pradente.
I'm Jamee Jackson -Gadson.
We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts.
There's a lot to figure out when you're just starting your career.
That's where we come in.
Think of us as your work besties you can turn to for advice.
And if we don't know the answer, we bring in people who do, like negotiation expert, Morrie Tehreipour.
If you start thinking about negotiations as just a conversation, then I think it sort of eases us a little bit.
Listen to Let's Talk Offline on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
The most advantageous, the biggest synergies, but you'll never know, because you had to make hard decisions very quickly.
And so while digital first is great, and it helps us to do everything and optimize our time and do more with less, it also doesn't show us the full picture.
And that's where it comes to us to say, how am I representing myself best online so that I get chosen for those opportunities that I may not even know are out there?
Hey, I'm Kwame Christian.
And you are about to step into the world of Negotiate Anything, the number one negotiation podcast in the world where we teach you how to make difficult conversations easier while getting more of what you want in the process.
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Let's make every conversation a winning negotiation.
Welcome back to the show, my friend.
Thanks for having me.
Yes, it is our pleasure.
Thanks for coming back.
So how would you get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Well, it's so great to be here.
I am Kim Kalp. I am an entrepreneur and a podcaster.
And just for someone who likes talking about making you look your best online.
So I mainly do that on LinkedIn, but also on Instagram.
And it really has become sort of a passion point of mine, in addition to everything else that I do.
Yes. And listeners, we have to understand, my friend Kim is very humble.
She is the queen of LinkedIn.
And we're going to talk about this today, because what's really cool is when you think about your online presence, there is a real connection to real life outcomes and a significant impact on the way that people perceive you and the way that it can impact our conversations.
So, Kim, if you could just give us an overview on a bit of your career as an entrepreneur and how your online presence has helped you as you progressed.
Absolutely. I'm so bullish on your online presence because I think that most of us by now travel within arm's reach of our phones at all times.
They're always within arm's reach.
We always have some sort of tablet or iPhone or Samsung phone close to us.
And what that means is as we experience new things, as we get introduced to somebody new at the coffee shop or as a friend recommends a book that they think we would like, we grab our phones and what we do, we immediately go to Google or we immediately go to our notes app and we take down our new friend
Sam Schwartz and his contact information or we take down the name of that book that our friend is recommending.
And what we do with that information usually is we then follow up on it.
So, I always tell people that you are getting Googled multiple times a day without you even realizing it.
And in that example that I just gave, you know, you meet somebody new at a coffee shop, sure you exchange info you've met in real life.
But think about how many times that's happened to us before we meet the person.
So somebody comes up to you and says, Hey, I have somebody you have to meet them.
Their name's Bob. Maybe it's even for a date.
You and I are married, but a lot of people aren't.
Oh, Hey, you've got to meet my friend, Bob.
You've got to go on a date with him.
And what do we do? We Google Bob.
What's going on with Bob?
Does Bob have a job?
Like, does Bob check out or if you have kids, you know, what do you do when you get the assignment of who their teacher is going to be?
What do we do? We look up the teacher.
Is it a good teacher?
Is it a bad teacher?
You know, we do our own homework.
And so what always really surprises me about this is every time I tell this to people, they're doing exactly what you're doing now, Kwami.
They're leaning in, they're shaking their heads because they're going, yes, definitely within the last couple of days, have Googled somebody before meeting them, speaking to them.
I heard about them.
And then the next logical question that I always ask that always seems to like baffle people is then I say, well, how often have you Googled yourself and people are like, Google myself.
What? No, no, I Google other people.
I don't Google myself.
And I was like, yeah, but that's like you going out to a date or going out to run errands or going to a party and not looking in the mirror, right?
You look in the mirror first.
You'd brush your hair.
You'd fix your tie.
You talk in your shirt.
You're making sure that you're looking.
You're looking good.
You're looking the part.
And just like you wouldn't leave for a party without looking in the mirror, it's amazing to me that people go about their lives without looking in their digital mirror without Googling themselves and seeing, well, what happens when people Google my name?
What do I look like?
What are the links that are coming up for me?
And then when those links do inevitably come up usually in the top five, that's linked in because I could get on a soap box about how LinkedIn and Google are best friends, but usually LinkedIn is in that top five result.
And it's crickets. They haven't touched the thing.
They haven't been looking for a job.
They haven't been doing anything.
And this was true. And I found this to be true because like I said, I myself am an entrepreneur.
And what I was seeing is as I was meeting people trying to further my marketing agency, beating fellow entrepreneurs, I was Googling people and realizing, wait a minute, not everybody realizes what I have realized, which is you got to make sure you look good, both digitally and in person.
And I think now people are catching up more and more, but I'm on a mission to make sure that everybody catches up to that.
I love this. It's so important for us to remember this.
And especially when you use that metaphor, that example of wouldn't you look at yourself before going out, it becomes really apparent why this is so powerful.
And we have to recognize now that we are in this digital information age, your virtual digital online avatar is going to be paving the way for you, whether you know it or not, and whether you like it or not.
So it's really up to us to control that narrative.
But like you said, so many people are not doing this.
And so I want you to put on your film director's hat.
I want, let's, let's create a film here, Kim, let's make this really real.
So I want you to create a horror story for somebody less.
Cause I want this to hit home.
So let's say there's a person who does not take control of their online persona, and they are trying to start a business or they're trying to get a job.
What kind of things might be out there that are doing damage that they might not be aware of?
Well, first and foremost, what I always tell people is the pushback that I always get, for instance, when I tell people low hanging fruit as an example, low hanging fruit, clean up your LinkedIn, I actually have a downloadable PDF with like 10 things that you can do like within the hour, just to kind
of clean up your LinkedIn profile.
You can find that at help my linkedin .com.
I'm sure we can include that in the show notes.
But when people say, well, Kim, you know, I'm already getting opportunities or I already have a great job or I already came out on top in that last business deal.
And the one thing I say to them is the missed opportunities that you're not getting, you will never know about.
And I say that because in today's digital first era, you will hear the word no and oh, before people get a chance to know you K and O W.
And what I mean by that is I'll take you, for example, Kwame, because you're super busy and we're all super busy.
So let's say, you know, we were just talking about how you're coming to Austin soon.
You're coming to Austin.
You're only here for, let's say two nights, one night.
You have a very limited amount of time and space for people that you can meet with.
Now, if somebody says to you, Kwame, there's three people that you've got to meet in Austin, but you look at your schedule and you don't have time to meet three people.
You only have time to meet two people.
Well, how do you make that decision between the three people to meet, but you only have two spots?
Well, what do you do?
You're smart. You do your homework.
You look them up. You choose out of those three.
The two people who online you think look the most interesting or look like they could have synergies with you and what you're doing.
You call those people, you get those two spots filled.
That third person never knew you were coming to town.
Their friend never provided a warm introduction.
And for all we know, that third person, they actually could have been the best person for you to meet with, the most advantageous, the biggest synergies, but you'll never know because you had to make hard decisions very quickly.
And so while digital first is great and it helps us to do everything and optimize our time and do more with less, it also doesn't show us the full picture.
And that's where it comes to us to say, how am I representing myself best online so that I get chosen for those opportunities that I may not even know are out there?
Oh, this is so good.
And what makes that example even scarier is that one of the slots is already filled by you, Kim.
So it's even newer people who have the opportunity.
So this is great. And now that the audience is sufficiently terrified, now we can talk about the nexus between the online persona and negotiation, because I think without deeper exploration, it might not be readily apparent why this is so important.
And we already touched on it here because a lot of times we are getting rejected before we even recognize it.
That's the first thing.
But can you talk about some of the more subtle psychological impacts of your online persona as it relates to some of the difficult conversations that we might be having day to day?
Well, I think what's so important also about your online persona is listen, whether you're going into a negotiation or a hard conversation, most of the time what we want going into that conversation is we want the other party to think we're smart and to think we're capable and to think that we're equal.
Nobody goes into a hard conversation or nobody goes into a negotiation thinking, I hope the person across the table thinks I'm a dummy.
Most of us don't want that.
We want the other person to at least think that we're equal.
Maybe if we're lucky, even a little superior like, oh, man, Kwame, he's pulling his chair up to the negotiation table.
Like we got to roll up our sleeves.
Like this guy means business.
Like he is impressive.
Like we got to bring out all of our guns.
So you want somebody to either be impressed, like, wow, Kwame is coming to the table or at least feel like, okay, we're equal.
We're on the same footing.
And I think at that very basic fundamental level, knowing that you're going into a hard conversation on equal ground or at least feeling like, okay, this person has done their homework.
You know they have.
I have never met a person like you Kwame, have done a ton of speaking engagements, whatever.
I have yet to meet a person that goes into a hard conversation without doing their homework.
They googled. They've looked at past references.
Like no person goes into a hard conversation without doing their homework.
So making sure that they find what you want them to find about you is I think super key, super imperative and can be helpful for you as you go into that hard conversation because this person might say, well, I know I can't pull any punches.
I know I gotta get straight to the point because this person is really they really got their stuff together.
Hey, everyone, it's Kwame Christian, host of Negotiate Anything asking you to please do not skip forward because this is not a commercial.
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Hey, I'm Gianna Prudente.
And I'm Jamee Jackson Gadsden.
We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline, a new podcast from LinkedIn News and I Heart podcasts.
When you're just starting out in your career, you have a lot of questions like how do I speak up when I'm feeling overwhelmed?
Or can I negotiate a higher salary if this is my first real job?
Girl, yes. Each week we answer your unfiltered work questions.
Think of us as your work besties.
You can turn to for advice.
And if we don't know the answer, we bring in experts who do like resume specialist Morgan Sanner.
The only difference between the person who doesn't get the job and the person who gets the job is usually who applies.
Yeah, I think a lot about that quote.
What is it like you miss 100 % of the shots you never take?
Yeah, rejection is scary, but it's better than you rejecting yourself.
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You're absolutely right.
And what's funny, too, Kim, is that I started to pay attention to this relatively early, and then I started to recognize the way I was treated was shifting over time.
And it is fascinating.
And we have to remember, we hear this all the time.
Don't judge a book by its cover.
And the reason why they say that is because naturally every human being will judge a book by its cover.
OK, so we have to recognize that this is the psychological reality that we're dealing with.
And now it's our responsibility to take control of our online persona and start to make these moves.
And we can start to think about this through intelligence.
That's one thing. And I love the idea of essentially the status type of evaluation at worst equal, but hopefully a little bit better.
Right. But now, when we think about getting trust, when we think about trust, it's usually a function of credibility and reliability.
We can demonstrate our credibility really well online.
But there are a lot of mistakes that people can make as they're trying to do this, because I'm sure that there are people who have become terrified by the first half of this conversation.
And they say, OK, I need to do something right now, right now.
Now, as they start to build this online persona, what are some mistakes that they should avoid that you've seen a lot of times?
I think the biggest mistakes that I see people making is trying to do too much.
So exactly what you said, Kwame.
People leave conversations like this and they're like, wow, like, my hair's on fire.
Like, I got to do these 50 things.
And I always say, slow down.
No, baby steps. Take little steps in the direction of where you need to go.
Do I need you to change 75 things about what you're doing?
No. Do I need you to set aside one hour for me to make some optimizing and some critical decisions for you to do on LinkedIn, preferably?
Yes, that is what I need.
But two things, like two really low pieces of hanging fruit that I give people is if you take nothing else, if you're like, Kim, I don't want to download your top 10 tips, even though I think they're really easy and great.
And we've timed them and they do take under an hour, but whatever.
You're like, I don't want to do that.
If you only do two things.
If you actually could forget everything else that I say in this conversation, but you only do these two things, I will be so happy.
And that is number one, if you went to a university, please put that in your LinkedIn profile.
Why do I say that? Because most of us, not all, but most of us tend to like the university that we went to.
We tend to have an affinity towards it.
That's why alumnis and donations are so big.
For instance, I went to the university of Florida, go Gators football season kicking off.
Hopefully we have a good year.
If I see someone online that has gone to UF, I cannot help.
But when I meet them for the first time or get on the phone with them, I say, oh, go Gators.
When did you graduate?
Oh, you instantly have that connection.
You instantly have that camaraderie, that bonding moment.
So low hanging fruit, if you have a university, put it on your LinkedIn.
The second piece of really low hanging fruit, if you can do it, is spend a few minutes connecting with people that you know personally on LinkedIn.
And I don't just mean people at work.
I mean your aunt. I mean your cousin.
I mean your sister.
I mean your college roommate.
I mean your old high school best friend.
Humans that you know and that know you.
Why do I say that? Because the world is small and if you've ever gone on a really long road trips, you might have played the game seven degrees of Kevin Bacon.
And if you don't know what that game is, you can look it up, but you basically can get to anybody within seven degrees.
And so that is true in our lives as well.
So if I am going to get introduced to somebody named Bob and I see that, oh, I don't know anybody in common with Bob versus I get introduced to Steve.
And I see that on LinkedIn he knows my cousin and he knows my aunt and what a coincidence he knows my old boss.
I'm going to go, oh, Steve, like no way.
Like how do you know this is so what a small world you're starting off on the right foot.
So two pieces of low hanging fruit, if you can, at your university and second connect with humans that you know on LinkedIn.
I love this. It's so simple, but so powerful.
It really does make a difference.
And Kim, to your point, even if it's a, you put your university down and you go to a rival university, you have a little fun talking point that you have.
Right. So as a proud Buckeye from the Ohio State University, as you know, we're very quiet and humble.
Most people don't know that, but but we've had some warm interactions with Michigan Wolverines.
We just mess around with each other a little bit, but it's fun and it's a good conversation starter.
Great one. And in funny, you mentioned that I actually have a bet right now with somebody.
I mean, it is that he's a big Miami hurricane span.
Obviously I went to UF.
I'm a big UF fan. We actually kick off the season by playing one another and we have a rivalry bet right now going on who will win.
And this is somebody that I met through work, through business.
So you are spot on, even if it's not the same university, you can use rival universities to again, like foster that connection.
Exactly. It's so easy, but people don't do it.
And again, it shows the value of doing that little bit of research.
It's so easy to see it.
But again, a lot of times we don't do that.
And one of the things I will first Kim, I think we should disclaim our biases here.
We are big fans of in of LinkedIn.
LinkedIn is our home.
It's where we is where we have our most success.
There's one thing about LinkedIn that I and I don't remember the specific statistic, but I think it's like less than 3 % of people who are on LinkedIn produce content and it's such a missed opportunity.
But people don't do it.
And so if somebody is saying, all right, I want to take advantage of this opening.
How can I make insightful LinkedIn posts in a way that advances my credibility and makes me look good to the people that I want to impress?
I always say for me, the biggest thing when it comes to LinkedIn is to treat it like a friend or treat it like a work calling.
So what would you talk about around the water cooler?
Maybe you would talk about this new industry article that you saw.
Maybe you would talk about how somebody at your company got a promotion.
Maybe you would talk about a funny memory that it's the five year anniversary that you started working at this company.
And you can remember what it was like on your first day when you were terrified and sitting in your cubicle thinking like, did I make the right decision?
So all of those things I think are really, just really great ways for you to communicate to others on the platform.
And I think that as much as you can, just finding ways to relate is huge.
And if anybody wants content ideas, I've been asked this question numerous times.
And again, you can go to, I have a link called Kickstart My Content, and that gives you, I think it's like 20 different content ideas with examples and posts on LinkedIn.
Where you can find examples of things that I've used and other people have used that you can copy my homework.
I always tell people, we're not in high school anymore.
You're not going to get in trouble.
There's something that I've done that you like, copy it, make it your own.
I have no problem with that.
I highly encourage people to do it.
I wish I knew you when I was getting started on LinkedIn, because it was such a struggle to start to get traction, but the key was just starting.
And I think for most people, yes, you should download, number one, download this, this helpful guide.
That's amazing. And then second, just start showing signs of life.
Show some signs of life on the platform, because I think a lot of times people use LinkedIn more as a glorified resume, where they just put it up and they might update it every three years or so and then they still look like they're 19 when they're 36.
It's not doing anybody any favors.
And if you just show signs of life, just show that you're doing something.
You'll start to find those bright spots.
You'll start to see where people are responding favorably to you and then the market will show you what it is that they want.
And then you just start to give more of that.
And I always say, again, I'm all about like the lazy hacks and I'm all about like the small things that you can do if you're a busy person.
If you're listening to this right now and you're like, oh, Kim Kwame, this sounds so good, but like, I just don't know where to start.
I don't know how to like act like I'm alive on LinkedIn.
Easy. Another low hanging piece of fruit.
I tell people change your profile picture.
Like literally that sounds so simple and so silly.
A lot of times our profile pictures are a couple of years old.
Take a new one. You can do it on your iPhone.
It doesn't have to be anything amazing.
But even when you do something as small as change your profile picture, you will notice on like the little bell, little notifications when you sign on to your LinkedIn homepage, it will alert everyone in your network.
Like Kwame has changed his profile picture and then I see him go, oh, you know, oh, I haven't heard from him in a while.
So I actually, I don't do this anymore because this was like my sneaky trick, but I'll let you in on it.
About once every six months, I would change my profile picture and then Kwame like clockwork, like clockwork within a week or two of doing that.
I would get two or three, sometimes four emails from clients or past clients being like, I just saw to you, you know, this project.
Came up and like, I don't know.
You popped into my mind.
And in my head I'm like, I didn't just magically pop into your mind.
You saw that notification.
You thought of me then the next opportunity.
So again, it's opening up those opportunity channels.
It's opening up, you know, that luck, that serendipity, it absolutely loathed when people say like, oh, you just got lucky.
And I tell people like, I mean, yes, there is some luck to it, but also a lot behind a lot of luck is a lot of hard work.
And a lot of like sneaky profile picture updates, you know, whatever that is for you, I always say like try as much as you can to kind of create that luck for yourself.
Yeah, for me, the way I think about it is that luck is a strategy.
I think about when I think about the impressions on my posts and things that I've make, I say, all right, for a certain percentage.
What is the conversion rate?
Let's say 1%, 5%, it's going to convert into some kind of traffic, a podcast listener, somebody taking one of our LinkedIn courses or a client.
And so I say, all right, cool.
So if my luck rate is 1 % to 5%, then I just need to be a little bit more prolific with high level content, and then I'm going to get luckier as we go through it.
And so people poo poo luck as if it is not legitimate, but it's about making sure that you're putting yourself in the right position.
And then when you think about the psychology of this, it becomes really fascinating too, because there's a concept called the mere exposure effect.
So think about times where you might have heard a song, and the first time you hear the song, you're like, it has a nice beat.
And then you hear it again, you're like, okay, that's really cool.
And then by the seventh time, you're like, yo, that's my jam.
I love that. And as long as you are putting yourself in front of people and it is not incredibly negative, then people are just going to like you more simply because you are merely exposing yourself to them in this platform.
So the psychological benefits from this are significant and profound.
But again, it takes action.
We actually have to put it into place.
Thousand percent. You got to put in even if it's that little, little, little amount of effort.
Low hanging fruit as much as you can.
Absolutely. And Kim, something tell me if this resonates with you too, because I've recognized like I said before, people have started treating me differently since the online persona has grown.
I've recognized that especially since my base is in negotiation.
The way that people negotiate with me has changed.
And so they might make a joke saying, oh, well, I need to be ready.
We're going up against the negotiation guy.
And then I ask a question or two and then they adjust their position.
I'm like, this has become easier just because they're expecting it to happen.
And I recognize that I go in there and I don't need to prove myself anymore because, you know, you're having these conversations where you're saying, oh, yes, I have to now list out my resume to show why I am worthy of this opportunity.
But now it's like the dynamic has shifted.
Hey, we know you're busy.
This is why this is a great opportunity for you.
And now they're pitching me instead of the other way around.
Exactly. And you can set yourself up for that success before you even walk in the room by doing something as simple as, like you said, filling out your LinkedIn, making it look like you've done something in the past couple of years.
I think people always try to make a mountain out of a molehill.
Sometimes it is easy enough as spending an hour every six months like really digging in and doing something.
And you just never know unless you try.
That's another thing I tell people.
So when anybody complains or says like, oh, I don't know if it's going to work for me.
My next question is, have you tried?
And usually the answer is no.
And then I was like, well, that's like saying you don't like ice cream.
You haven't even tried it.
It might be really delicious once you try it.
So I always say even if it's just your first time, give it a try.
I agree. And also there might be some people who say, Kim, I need some extra help.
And hypothetically, do you know of any LinkedIn courses or something that somebody might be able to take to get them past that level?
Yes, so I have a nano course on LinkedIn right now, which is perfect for anybody who is super busy and really is low on time.
And I say that because it is literally 15 minutes or less like it is a 15 minute.
I think it's actually nine minutes, like a nine minute course.
But what it was is it was sort of a tester.
And it was like, do people want more of these tips?
Do people want to optimize their LinkedIn?
Do they want to supercharge this platform?
And the resounding answer was yes, which is why, you know, it's now been viewed tens of thousands of times.
And so I have been working closely with LinkedIn to create a full course.
So instead of it being nine minutes, it is going to be 30 or 40 minutes of me going in depth, showing you step by step exactly what you do, like walking with you every step of the way.
And that course will be out in the fall.
So as soon as I know when that's out, I will absolutely let you know.
Amazing. Kim, thank you so much for coming on the show.
It was a joy, as always.
And for those listeners who want to learn more about you, your podcast, your business, your courses, where's the best way for them to find you?
The best place to find me, well, two places is either LinkedIn or Instagram.
And to find me on either one of those platforms, it's just my name, Kim Kelp.
Although I realize that Kelp is a really tricky last name and hard to spell.
So if you are on LinkedIn, you can just start spelling out K, A, U, P, E.
If you are on Instagram, usually what happens after Kim and then the KA is you will be fed Kim Kardashian.
She's always number one.
And usually I am number two because she has an R and I have the letter U.
So I will be the Kim K with her clothes on.
You're going to see two.
One is much more naked than me.
And I am the second one with all of my clothes on.
So when you find that Kim K, you'll have landed on my profile.
That's a great way to make sure that people remember.
That's so smart. Well, Kim, just always dropping gems.
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
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