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I'm Jenna Fisher and I'm Angela Kinsey.
We were on The Office Together and we're best friends.
And now we're doing the ultimate Office Lovers podcast just for you.
Each week we will dive deeper into the world of the office with exclusive interviews, behind the scenes details and lots of VFF stories.
We're the Office Ladies 6 .0.
Hello, hi there. Hi.
Ooh, we have some special guests today.
We do. This is the most we've ever talked on the podcast as a group.
You've never had five people.
No. Correct. Angela, do you want to tell everybody what's happening?
I sure do. We have a super fun episode today because we are doing a crossover with Pod Meets World.
We have Ryder, Danielle and Will from Boy Meets World.
We each got to watch an episode of each other's show.
Yes. Yes. Okay, Jenna, why don't you share with everyone how this episode came about.
Okay, well Ryder and I know each other.
Yeah. That's how this came about.
Yes. How do you guys know each other?
We have a mutual friend in Natalie Z.
Parties at her house, right?
How far do you guys go back?
So, Travis Schult is friends with my husband, Lee.
Okay, so it's Travis.
Okay, okay. Travis, who is married to Natalie, Travis and Natalie will have a party here and there.
And you're there. And I'm there.
One of the first people I talked to about Podmates World.
Because I was like, how's your rewatch podcast going?
And you were super helpful.
And you were like, Do it, you'll have the best time.
It's so good. And yeah, you were like one of the people that really convinced me that this was a great idea.
Oh, good. Oh, I'm so glad well, your podcast is super successful.
You guys have an amazing community.
you guys are real friends in real life, like me and Angela, you do a fantastic job telling the show, telling all the scenes and what goes on behind, I think it's just such a great podcast, and I really am so curious to watch more episodes now.
Truly, truly, especially now that I know some of the things you've shared with us, we're a little trivial.
I would get there, yeah.
Yes, yes, because full disclosure, Angela and I had not seen an episode of Boy Meets World until this collab happened.
I think similarly, Ryder, had you ever seen an episode of The Office?
Yeah, I had only watched probably the first two seasons, maybe, or maybe up to three.
So, you had not seen the episode we picked for today then.
No, no. Will has seen every episode of The Office numerous times.
I'm also a little weird when it comes to TV, so if I see it more than once, I can recite it backwards and forwards.
So, I watched the episode again, you had us watch, but I didn't need to.
I could have literally told you what you were wearing, usually in most of those things.
Wow. Yeah. He knew it very well.
You're like a genius person?
With TV. Photographic memory or TV.
With TV. So if I have nothing to do and I'm bored and there's nothing around me, I shut my eyes and watch Mash.
Come on. Backwards, forwards.
Because you can just play that in your head.
So I can do that with the office too.
The images are there as well as the...
The images, the sound, the music, the breaks, all of it too.
But if he doesn't have his giant calendar in front of him...
I can't remember...
can't remember what there is to do or whether or not something is scheduled, so.
My wife helps, but no I don't.
Yeah, no. My TV, backwards and forwards.
There's a little bit of undercurrent business happening in this conversation.
They just know not to ask anymore.
They won't be here such and such a time, and she'll text my wife.
We also just say, could you just take a picture of the big calendar, because I understand that you can't carry it, it's a literal giant calendar.
So I'll say, because if you just have the picture of it, you'd know if you were free on the 8th.
This is a really good idea!
So did you take a picture of your calendar?
I think the last one I took was in April.
Yeah, we're a little behind.
So I have through April where I'm supposed to be.
Otherwise they just tell me where I'm supposed to be most of the time.
You guys, we are actually in your studio today, it's lovely, and there are cameras.
I feel like they could make a video for you of your calendar that you would watch and then you would know everything.
That's not a bad idea.
I'd know where I'd have to be and all the stuff I had to do.
Again, comes to episodes of The Office all day long where I have to be tomorrow, anybody's gonna.
No idea. I feel like you could be a really good asset for Office ladies.
What would you like to know?
I mean, I mean, we're gonna hit you up.
Please, let me know, be happy to.
I'll walk you through it, it's a great show.
Oh, thank you. Not to belabor this, but I am really fascinated, does this extend as well to things you've read, books, articles?
It depends on what, if it's stuck in my brain, it's forever stuck in my brain, and I can go back and see the page, see the thing.
But then again, a calculia is a very real thing.
So put two numbers in front of me and my brain doesn't comprehend that.
You also in school wouldn't take notes.
You would just watch the teacher.
I could. Because if I look down, but if he just listened and just watched the board, then I could just see the board. No but again, if somebody gave me a phone number or people's names, I have to meet somebody a thousand times before I remember their names but I can see the blue shirt you're wearing.
I can see the shirt you walk in on when...
Fashion show, fashion show at lunch, I can see the color of the few show.
You guys should quiz him.
You should ask him to show.
It's pretty good. If you remember a certain line or a moment.
Yeah, so stuff like that.
It's so crazy because we just did a Side -By -Side.
A fan wrote in and said that they think that Josh and Stanford is wearing the same suit that Michael Scott wears on his birthday.
I had to go and look at both episodes and take a picture of each one and make a Side -By -Side.
And it's not the same suit.
No, it's not the same suit.
Birthday episode is when he goes and plays hockey with the blue shirt and the blue tie.
Yeah, yeah, no, that's not.
Holy cow. It's not exactly the same suit, no, no, no. And also which episode are you talking about with Josh from Stanford?
Is this, you don't snipe in Carrington.
Oh, is it the initiation?
Was it the initiation?
Which is right before New Orleans.
Branch closing, oh, is when you leveraged the promotion into another offer, that was the branch closing.
Okay, so when Jen's like, I've done it, I've driven something like 400 miles today, so I'm just gonna say this.
That one? I think that one.
Yeah, so, yeah. And it has a pinstripe suit on and a bright blue shirt which is similar to Michael's birthday.
It does but it's wider pinstripes than Michael's.
And the tie is different.
The tie is different as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Why do I need to do side -by -side photos anymore?
Just call Will. A new resource.
I mean, that's not...
It's so crazy. If I ever decided to use this for evil...
...we don't even want to go down that path because it'd be pretty dangerous.
Wow. Yeah. Don't come at me trivia night at a bar.
and it was an office -themed trivia night?
I win Jeopardy most nights.
Oh, wow. Yeah, I know a lot.
You have to go on Jeopardy.
Little bit about a lot.
I know. I don't know if I'd be, celebrity Jeopardy.
The reunion would be the weird part for me, I don't know.
Oh, the buzzer thing.
I was asked to do it one year and I freaked out.
I was like, teen celebrity Jeopardy.
I was like, I don't want to go beat Melissa Joan Hart in Jeopardy.
Just make me feel bad.
So yeah. You guys, Pod Meets World is a fantastic re -watch podcast of the hit show Boy Meets World.
It premiered on ABC in 1993.
Oh my goodness, it ran until 2000, all three of you guys were on it and over the course of the run, the show received numerous awards and nominations, and in 2020, Boy Meets World won online Film and Television Hall of Fame award for television programs. We did?
We went? What? According to IMDb, we won a 2020 Hall of Fame award. Why weren't we invited?
No one sent us even a screenshot.
I'd like to take my parents.
Wow, that's cool. That's cool.
I'd like to bring up the fact that we were all five on long -running - Yes.
Hit television shows.
Amazing. But there was a big difference.
Y 'all were kids. So can you tell us, how old were each of you when the show started, and when it ended?
I was from 12 to 19.
13 to 20. 16 to 24.
Wow. Wow. Wow. And also filmed in front of a studio audience, right?
Which is different.
Very wonderful. Very few episodes where we would not have an audience.
Two or three, right?
I think a handful. But it was, oh god, there's nothing like show night.
So much more like theater.
Yeah. And especially when you're on a younger show.
especially when we're starting to get popular.
I'm putting that in quotes because we were never really that popular when we were on.
It was later we became popular.
But kids would line up so it'd be 14 and 15 year olds just screaming all night long and it's such a rush it was really great.
That must have been such a buzz in the room.
Oh God it was so fun.
You know our sound stage was really quiet and you were happy if you saw the boom mic guy shake a little bit because you were like I got him, I got him.
But otherwise it was pretty quiet except for us breaking and ruining each other's take.
he must've wanted to break each other just to get that.
Do not watch the outtakes of the office.
I love when you're making each other laugh, but when the dialogue is so funny that you're making yourself laugh, that's one of my favorite things in the world, where you can't even get through the lines because they're so good.
I think you're talking about Rainn Wilson.
He would crack himself up all the time.
All the time, all the time.
Well, wait, so when we were on Pod Meets World, we were watching the Boy Meets World episode Hair Today, Goon Tomorrow.
And today we are watching the surplus from The Office.
And speaking of bloopers, I think one of the hardest times I ever laughed in a scene was when Dwight gives Andy and Angela directions to - Oh God.
I want so many cases till you hear the beehive.
That's a great bloopers.
Ed and I could not keep it together.
I have a question. We've talked a lot about how on The Office there was this real collaboration between the writers and the show runner and the actors.
How much input did you guys have into your lines or changing a line or a story line?
I know that Hair Today Goon Tomorrow was a little bit inspired by Danielle's desire to cut her hair.
I see heads shaking.
No, no, no. Did you improvise?
No, it was very... Well, you got to improvise a little bit.
I got to. Especially towards the later seasons, they kind of let me do my thing.
So I could improvise, I would often button scenes, but we weren't really changing our dialogue.
Unless something was awful.
I had one, I grew up in a military family, and I had one where we do an episode where like you do, a magical cat sends you back to World War II.
You know. Like it happens.
Yeah, magic cats. Magic cats, yeah.
And so a lot of the stuff they had me doing was in a military uniform and being really disrespectful.
And I went to our producer and said, I'm not going to do this.
And in all fairness, he went, okay, fine.
And they changed it.
But we as young actors, I won't say kids, we weren't really going up no. In fact, they started taking things from my life more and more like sort of you know sort of being my character was being inspired by writers real life and yeah annoyingly so but more and more as the show went on and and without permission yeah I mean it's so interesting because of course as an adult actor like having input on your character you know is like part of the process yeah kids we never felt we felt like being a good actor would be you know I'm probably being told how to say with a line reading so we were the other
thing we talk about on the podcast a lot is that one of the things our executive producer was famous for us we would finish a run -through, and then we'd all gather for notes and the notes would sometimes be an hour and a half to two hours long of just to each of you like line by line he'd start on page one and basically like page one line one have notes about was wrong and how we needed to do it a different way and it's very clear you guys don't understand the point of this episode so let me tell you here's a fun creative environment Yeah.
We were children. So makes it better, right.
I did hear on your podcast, and I love this, that you would find ways to like sneak in a huh.
Yeah. So now I'm going to be rooting for that whenever I say that is true that we would try to make each other laugh.
Yeah. They're not in jokes, but they're not in the dialogue.
Right. The subject.
So we're like sending messages to each other with like intonations or physical moves.
watching it back for the podcast has been so fun to see again.
It was also stuff that the writers weren't aware we had.
They were truly like inside jokes.
It was probably our own little rebellion of like, watch me slip in a joke to my friend that you don't know is a joke.
Especially if you'd been told for an hour and a half how you don't get it and you're doing it wrong.
I'd want to like sneak in something.
It wasn't particularly collaborative.
It was fun, but it wasn't particularly collaborative.
Right. Oh, okay. I know.
It's our podcast Saturday when yours is out of the Nay.
Is that what I'm getting?
So I have a... Hey, I have a pivot here.
Okay, so you remember every scene of every episode of The Office.
Pretty much, yeah. Well, I thought there was a great crossover story between Hair Today, Goon Tomorrow, and an episode from The Office.
not the one we're watching today, not surplus, but there is a similar scene.
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Ah.
Well, let's see, a good looking detective?
Good looking detective.
Do you wanna hint? Do you wanna hint?
Yes, give me one, because yeah.
A small hint. Sofa?
Sofa. Sofa. Oh, well - I'm so tickled by this.
I'm so, no, I'm, just kidding.
Wait, what I'm trying to remember from our episode with the sofa, oh, yeah, okay, there it is.
Thank you, yeesh. This is, I pay for that privilege.
I only have one weird thing about me.
I use the ladies' room for number two and I have paid off, and yeah there's a couch. That's right, okay, that's right!
In Women's Appreciation, the office episode, the men, first of all, we find out Creed's been using the women's room and they go in there and there's a sofa and they hang out in there!
And I thought it was really funny when we watched this episode, you guys were like, there's a sofa?
I had the same thought Angela!
I was like oh my gosh!
And you know what else I thought of?
I have not been in very many women's restrooms with sofas.
I've been in a lot of them.
I think only three have been in Nordstrom lounges.
And high schools. The girls in our high school had a cow.
They had a sofa? They had a sofa.
Because you would go in there to smoke when the boy's room was too full.
Oh yeah. I run across very few sofas.
That's Kevin like, this is the dream.
Isn't the dream, the girls locker room?
Normally there's girls in there, Kev.
Still blown away. I know we talk about that you could do this, but when you really can do it, like on the spot.
Every time. And it's not a bit.
It's crazy. It's crazy.
The way my brain works, yeah.
All right, well guys, this is gonna be so much fun.
So much fun. We're excited to be with you.
We are gonna take a break, and when we come back, we're going to discuss the surplus.
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This is stuff my dad will not buy himself.
He will not buy like, you know, theme clothing.
Oh, I know. I know, right?
He's all practical.
I sent it to him. He loved it.
He already got it, you know, because he's gonna be gone on Father's Day.
So I sent it early and he's thrilled Well, you know for Father's Day this year.
We're at a volleyball tournament.
Our son has a volleyball tournament So that's where we're gonna be all day But we get up super early and Josh is such a coffee guy So I'm on Macy's com looking at their gifting guide and they have really great reasonably priced gifts, too And so if you have a coffee lover, or you need exercise equipment or...
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I got Lee's gift on mases .com, one of his gifts.
And I don't want to say it, but travel was like my thing in my brain this year.
I got him a travel case that holds both sunglasses, eyeglasses and wristwatches.
Oh, that's great. I know, it's super cool.
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Well, I got Josh Colon.
He loves, you know, he smells good.
He's a good smelling fella.
He doesn't go overboard, but I love the way he smells.
So I got him Hugo Boss Colon.
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All right everybody.
We're back and now we're gonna talk about The Office episode, The Surplus.
This was season five episode nine, written by Gene Stepnicki and Leigh Eisenberg, two of favorite writing team.
And our beloved director Paul Feig.
Yes, Paul Feig. I think I've worked with Jean and Leigh.
I think I did a show, can't remember the name of it, but pretty sure that they wrote on it.
Okay. That is my story.
Good story, girl. Hello, ladies.
Bad teacher? No. I think it was a Sometimes, for stories, you want to have detail.
No, here's what I will say.
I think it happened.
I'm pretty sure I've worked with Jean and Lee.
Don't they play in several episodes?
Don't they? Jeannie and Leo, that's right.
For advanced refrigeration.
Yes, 99 .9 % sure we've worked together.
Okay, I vote to cut that part.
No, because it's true.
Keep it in. Okay. They're gonna hit you up afterwards, and be like, here's the show that we did together with Will.
We'll look it up. We'll Google it.
Perfect. I'm going to give you a summary of the episode, and here it is.
Oscar informs Michael that they have a $4 ,300 budget surplus, and the surplus must be spent that day, or it gets returned and taken out of next year's budget.
The office is then divided on what to spend it on.
New chairs or a new copier.
This creates tension between Jim and Pam, who are on opposing sides.
Meanwhile, Andy and Angela visit Schrute Farms to discuss their wedding with Dwight, who tricks Angela into marrying him.
I mean, what the heck?
Michael then learns a third option for the surplus money, which is to return it in exchange for a 15 % bonus for himself.
Do you know? Do you know?
I think you know. What were your overall reactions to this?
Because we decided to pick quintessential episodes and I think the thing I love about this episode so much is that it is in a later season, and the A story is just a quirky office thing.
That happens all the time.
All the time in offices.
Yeah, we're like the hot goss that's going around is about something as mundane as chairs versus copier Yeah, and the dynamics and everybody's everybody out of control.
No one's focusing no one by the way No work is getting done in that office ever the manure being And also like no one is clocking the odor It just really made me laugh out loud.
You know what makes me laugh every time I watch this episode is when Mike Shur's most hits Ed.
With the hit and the ball.
In the background. Yes, it cracks me up every time because I really think that Ed wasn't quite expecting it.
So every time he's like hey.
It does look like he turns around really confrontational.
Like what just happened there?
Yeah, I know. It's so funny.
I'm somewhere in between Ryder and Will with my viewing of the office.
I'm pretty sure I have seen most seasons every episode at some point.
I do not have a fraction of Will's photographic memory from them.
Who does? And wait, Ryder had you seen this episode?
No. No, no. I don't think so.
Yeah. But it felt like a quintessential office episode.
Yeah. So it's what I remembered.
Yeah. Show Been. Like sort of, you know, like you're saying detailed, like meaningless conflict that just blows up and gets to show people's behavior.
I thought it was hysterical.
It's brilliant, so funny.
And like the show's ability to make awful actions incredibly like, well, it's just unparalleled.
I feel like a lot of what your show brought was like, you know, the beginning of like cringe comedy or like cringe, comedy usually is mean or like people are kind of awful.
And you're like, Oh, my God, I can't believe this person said that.
Whereas like every time Michael opens up his mouth, it's the funniest thing ever.
And you're like, I like that guy.
Yeah, he's even you don't want everybody, you know, Dwight, even who is sort of more on the meaner side, you still love him with everybody.
And the show is just so brilliant that it manages to pull that off and still have very comedic like I was laughing out loud and I realized I have not laughed out loud even at comedy these days.
I feel like comedy these days you're sort of like, you know, or like you guys managed while being incredibly realistic with the performances and understated, still big laughs like laugh out loud beats.
And so I think it's such an accomplishment and like a legendary show for that.
Jenna, you saying, no, don't take it away.
When he's shaking his butt.
And that was my favorite moments.
Yes. It was the perfect amount of all of us knowing that you are faking it, but also easily plays like you mean.
To dance with him. Yeah, I see you like, is perfect.
Cause you see all of it, like I'm going to dance now.
No we're stopping. Good.
Okay. It's like all there in that moment.
It's so funny. Also, you fluffing your hair with the red lip.
All right, know what I gotta do.
It's on. It is so on.
This episode, I'm so glad you picked this one.
It's one of my favorites.
It has, in my opinion, the most underrated joke of any Office episode.
And I find it to be one of the funniest things ever said on the entire show, and it's that fast. Which one is it?
It is the very beginning when Oscar's explaining to Michael about the lemonade stand, and he just says, in the next summer, Michael just goes, I'll be sick.
He's so excited. and the greatest joke ever.
It was like, now I know the math.
Because he just does it, I'll be six.
Genius on so many levels.
I remember the first time I see it, just keep reminding, it's the perfect joke.
It is the perfect joke.
So it's just, oh I just explain it to me like I'm eight, and then he does it and I'll be six.
Oh gosh, it is so well done.
Now this is, like we talked about the Boy Meets World episode we talked about, this episode is so well balanced between the A story, and the B story.
it's so funny how you find Hart in the office.
Because the scene where Angela finally says to Dwight, I made a mistake, I've been choosing Andy.
It's a real counter, it's a real beat.
Dwight of course says, well yeah well I know and that's why I just tricked you into marrying me.
And you should've learned German when I told you that.
It's telling you to take it for years.
It is just, that's one of the things I love about your show, is that our show, you know you're gonna get Hart because the music swells and we're telling you you're going to get heart.
Your show, you find it in beats that you don't think are going to exist. Yeah.
And it's Pam being drunk and falling off the chair at Chili's and then Jim picking her up and then Tiny Dancer's slowly starting to play in the background.
It's all just, it's all beautiful.
So, yeah. But this episode though, and then of course the ending, which is magical.
The magical tag. By the way, I didn't see that coming when he's wearing the coat.
I thought oh I love that we're just gonna see that he bought a fur coat and I the blood was just how even just the fact that he had the fur coat.
I was blown away by the writing in that because it starts when you are asking about or his suit and you're using the suit.
And that's where he throws out how much the suit costs.
And so I thought that was it like that's it.
But then he brings up the Burlington Coat Factory, because it makes him wanting that $600 so much better.
Because if you hadn't planted the seed that he is trying to save money by getting good suits, five dollars, and when it starts, it's just this you flattering him joke, then it builds to a coat at the end.
And all you needed to see, like, I mean, the tag could have just been him like doing the interview in the coat and I was, that's what I thought.
I thought, wow, of course that was such a payoff that then they even found the topper to us yeah things I never get tired of even in our rewatch is Steve is Michael when he's about to curse and they cut him off on getting the chairs I just loved it so much I've always wanted to know how much did this script stay the same from when you first got it to when you actually shot like how much you add living and just going with on the moment and how much was actually on the page Well, do you mean sort of from our table read to what we shot?
Table read draft to shooting draft or shooting draft to what you see on air.
Yeah, both. I would say there would be some pretty big changes between the table read draft and the shooting draft. But then the shooting draft to what you see on screen, a lot less than you would think.
Whoever wrote the episode would also be on set with the director producing their episode And they would be throwing out extra lines and ideas.
So a lot of times it wasn't an improv, but it was an alternate that the writers gave you.
Likewise, though, you could go to the writers.
We had the permission to go to the writers and it was a real creative collaboration.
So you could go up and say, hey, I have a really great button for the scene in accounting.
Will you let me know once we've got it the way you want it, the way the director wants it.
And then can I do like my pass?
Oh, that's great. And we were smart enough that you didn't improvise within the scene, if you did tops and the bottom, that way they can edit around, you don't mess with the storyline.
And I think a lot of little moments like that do make it in, but it was truly just a great scripted show.
But I think if you went to the script and you looked at that Michael talking head, that is the tag, it would be word for word. Which would, okay.
Like very often. Also, they would write in ellipses.
They would write in pauses.
They would write in Pam glances to camera.
So all of that that just seems like it's just happening, it was choreographed.
And then also, the idea that the camera would get to you in the middle of what you're saying.
Instead of landing on you perfectly.
Even though they knew we were gonna say it, or that the joke was over there, part of the comedy came from getting to it late.
So they would actually put that in the script, like whip hand to.
Yeah, whip to Jim. Yeah, Jim looks to camera, Jim sighs.
Okay so those looks to camera were always like looks to camera?
Or did they get a shorthand eventually the script where they were just like, give us the look.
Sometimes you could tag the camera, like if you wanted, but they didn't want everyone looking down the barrel of the camera all the time.
Right, right, right.
So you know like, I'm not sure if it said in the script like that I'm checking in with camera because I'm embarrassed that I'm what I'm doing to Michael, like some of those just ended up becoming second nature, like you know, like to kind of give the like a, oh my God, I'm so sorry.
We had a camera catching the main scene and then B camera was always roving the background.
So you had to be on from the minute you were at your desk, and you had to be in character, it's very actuary.
You had to be in character.
And our B camera operator, Matt Sohn, would often come up to us in the background and say, I can see your screen, log out of your email.
Or he would say something like, I just saw that you did an eye roll after Pam says that line, because you're in the deep background, but it was great.
And I caught it. So if you want to do it again, I caught it.
So that was just staying in character.
But that's how the crew was so much part of the creative process.
Because they were finding moments that weren't necessarily on the page, right?
That helped tell out, you know, fill out the whole story, one of the things that we noticed about our show is that as it progressed, they started to notice which characters really worked with other characters, so pairs started to form.
Did you start to notice that on your set as well?
Like, all of a sudden, because as the show progresses for awhile, all of a sudden, you know, Pam and Angela start to have kind of an interesting dynamic.
Was that something you think that was planned at the beginning or was it they were just looking at what worked and then started to write to the relationships they saw?
Well, our writers told us that something they would do sometimes is they would get a writing assignment where they would just take a random pairing of actors And they'd have to pitch storylines for them.
And there's an episode, I can't remember what the name of it is, where they all go out and pairs on sales calls.
Oh, yeah. So if you have a daughter team, you're the young firefighters.
Yeah. Yeah, right. And that was an episode that came out of that, like they would call it like the unusual pairings assignment.
Oh no, that was the salesman, the return.
Yes, yes. The return.
I really wish we had you on the split.
I could have helped out.
Can you just come sit in on our— I'd be happy to.
That's the one that starts with— Take the time.
Cassie, our producer, we're like, Cassie, Google, wait, which episode was that?
Yeah, Dwight has to bring the late taxes back to New York.
He misses the entire time.
Yes, exactly. That's when your hair, the back of your hair was very— It was like a pinwheel.
The pinwheel all the way around.
Very dramatic, the way they did the back your hair in that episode.
One of my favorite, like, completely undiscussed jokes is when Michael is pouring sugar into a diner.
Is that in the script, would something like that always be in the script, or, yeah?
Yes, that's in the script.
That's in the show Bible for Michael Scott that he adds sugar to his diet soda.
That I love that. Oh my god, it's like perfect.
Yes, so what was great I loved about our show is like let's say that's established one time in an early season, that it keeps finding its moment back into the show, just a great Easter egg.
We got one small glimpse of it because I have all the DVDs, and when you go to the dinner party, which is arguably one of the greatest. They gave you the script, the script came with the DVD.
So you got, it was the size of Sides, but you got actually the script.
And that's why I wanted to ask, cause some of the stuff was right on, and other stuff it was like, okay they said Andy harmonizes with the song, but then he kind of goes off and does his own thing.
So I was just curious how much you got to play as you were doing it because it was, man, it was so good.
We did get to play a lot.
Most of the time, like, I feel like what you ended up seeing on screen was, it was mostly scripted.
Gotcha. It was a very playful collaborative set.
It was fun. It was so fun.
You talked about alternate takes that you would use.
You have one of my favorites, which they didn't put in, which you say, I used to get a runner's high, which is why now I lift. Which didn't make it into the show, which I thought should've.
They were called our candy bag alts and our writers would write, you know, so you would have one talking head.
they might write 10 extras.
And you would get handed those pages as you sat down, you would learn the one in the script, they would hand them to you right as you started your talking heads.
And you would get the scripted one then you'd kind of look down and do the rest. And a lot of times in talking heads, that's where you can play a little bit too.
And Greg Daniels, we asked him like, why did you call him the Candy Bag?
Yeah, he named him The Candy Bag.
Yeah, so you guys hear The Candy Bag.
And he said, well, I knew it was a lot of extra stuff and I didn't want you guys to be mad So I thought I'd name it something fun.
It's a candy bag! So smart!
It's a bag of candy!
It's like if I called them the alts.
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Oh, office ladies, listeners!
We did a little detective work and do we have the scoop for you?
So what is it you ask?
It's that Discover is accepted at 99 % of places that take credit cards nationwide.
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based on the February 2025 Nielsen report.
Learn more at discover .com slash credit card. So something I want to ask you guys, people always ask us, why do you think the office is so relatable?
And I don't think that the answer is because everyone's worked in an office because clearly not everyone has worked in an office.
But I did work in an office and so did Angela.
And I'm curious since you guys grew up doing television, and you were actors by the time you were adults, did you ever work in an office?
Have any of you guys summer jobs?
I worked in customer service for Bloomingdales.
You have a very good customer service voice.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Yeah, I worked in customer service.
I really only got the job because I'm a good gift wrapper.
And I went that part of it.
It was during holiday for gift wrapping.
So I actually just wanted to wrap presents and they were like, well it's a customer service job and it was like could I just be the person in customer service who wraps the presents?
And the truth was I did get to wrap most of the presents but I also had to like be there to help people with their credit card bill and deal with other issues.
You know the Bloomingdale sale where you get a $25 gift card for every $200 you spend.
I had to help people with that stuff.
I had that real job.
Okay so there's a very famous episode where Pam says that if you need more than three pieces of tape to wrap a present, you're doing it wrong.
How many pieces of tape do you use?
And I disagree with Cam as Angela Kinsey because I tape the crap out of my gifts.
Like good luck opening them.
So I use double -sided tape.
Oh, family, I see it.
Next level. So you need one to cover the back and at least two to do the perfect triangle folds on each end.
Okay. So is there a way to do it with only three pieces of tape?
Yes, do you get the most bang for your buck presentation wise no so can I do it yes do I do it no by the way the next couple lines after three pieces of tape are Roy then says well can I just use the comics from the newspaper and you say yeah your mother would love that You know every holiday season people send that to me and I use way more than three pieces of tape and every time I give a gift to someone I feel like they're No, no it's just because you you care more about the aesthetics.
Okay. Yeah. Thank you.
So now, you guys have never worked in an office?
No. And have you ever had jobs other than actor?
Or producer, or? Not entertainment.
Not entertainment, just teaching.
I teach, but that's it.
He teaches real life?
I worked one day in a motorcycle shop, when I was 13.
Were you on hiatus from the show?
Or was this before the show?
It was before this.
I was on Nickelodeon at the time.
Okay. But it was, my dad, it was his client, and I had just bought a motorcycle, and I wanted to learn more about them, so I thought, this was my in, I worked one day, and then that was it.
Because you quit, or you got fired?
Neither, it was just, I think he thought, okay, I'm gonna let him come in here one day.
And that was all. Other than a child actor, I didn't even know it was legal to work before at least the age of 15.
I don't think it was, but I think most of the shit I did wasn't legal by the time I did it, so.
I know, that's true, that's true.
Yeah. He also started smoking at 11, so.
I was a heavy smoker by 11.
Oh my god. Yeah, 11 to...
It's got a weird like.
A wonderful beautiful weird life.
I was just wondering, you smoking on the subway, going into New York for my job.
I was, yeah, that was me.
Yeah 11 to 37, 35, actually May 27th.
Coming up. Hey, anniversary.
It will be my 11 year anniversary without a cigarette.
That's great, congratulations.
Thank you very much, I miss it all the time.
I don't actually. But no, yeah, so I've never had a job.
Well, you know, this gets a little bit to my point, which is that I feel like the reason why The Office works is because you don't have to work in an office to know a Dwight, or do you have met your Michael?
No, it's all just human behavior.
Right. It's so relatable.
And the performances are just amazing.
Yeah, and I feel like you guys changed television, cuz you just brought everything down a notch. Still, like I said, still managing to pull off big last giant set pieces.
But man, it's just so nice to see people behaving like people.
And like, when we go back and watch our show as much as I am able to say like, it was good.
Like it was, you know, it's a sitcom, it's a very stylized form of rhythm and acting and it has its benefit.
Realism of like, I mean, often we would have moments of realism, but you know, the jokes were like, you know, you're just hitting it.
And you guys didn't have any of that.
Still had a musicality, still had a rhythm, but it was part of the camera.
It's really remarkable.
And, and yeah. But what you were doing is really difficult and you do it so well on the show and I couldn't do it.
In my early acting struggles and trying to land a role, I was going out for three camera because that's what you did during pilot season - That's what you did during pilot season, yeah.
That was what the majority of shows were and I was terrible.
I was terrible. It was a weird thing.
I couldn't do it and I didn't understand because I was like, it's in front of a live audience.
I went to theater school.
It's just theater, right?
Right. But it's not just theater.
It's its own art form.
It really is. It's a certain kind of style, and it is to be respected, and you can do it, Angela.
Not great, lady. No, you can.
Much better than me.
I mean, right after the office wrapped, my agents were like, let's get you on a three camera, and they said, do you wanna do this role for H &C?
And I was super excited, and I've told Jenna this with Betty White, my gosh.
Can't wait. I had to be the bitchy principal.
This is in my wheelhouse.
I just spent nine years being the bitchy principal and I said the line and the director was like louder Say it louder and then I said it louder But then it sounded weird and then he was like can we get her like maybe a cane?
Oh like a cane like she comes in like with it like and I was like he says maybe she has a hat And I'm Craig Ferguson was in the episode with me and we had become friends at this point and he goes maybe we get her There you go.
But they're trying to sitcom it up.
They were trying to make me more of a bigger character and I had forgotten, I didn't know how to do it.
You'd gotten so used to the volume and tone level that you guys are on.
It's so different. And I do love sketch comedy, but I think I didn't know how to time it out with all the moving parts.
Well, just thank God The Office came along for me because I did not thrive in the three camera world.
I really tried. I always thought that I was a pretty naturally funny person and that comedy was my thing in terms of comedy acting, but I was not a fit for the three camera style.
In fact, the one major role that I landed was the pilot of Man With a Plan, starring Matt LeBlanc.
I was on for many, many seasons without me.
I was fired after the pilot.
Yeah. Yeah, that was my big job after The Office was Man With a Plan.
And I just struggled, I was like, why can't I do this?
It is not easy. And I really respect anyone who can do it.
You both thrive on The Office.
It's amazing. Well, I wanted to say that I think one of the reasons why The Office was so successful is not just, you would arguably be in the conversation for best ensemble cast on TV, in mainstream TV.
That's true. But there's so much heart that's unexpected.
I remember watching an interview with your editor who said that as he was editing the scene where Jim and Pam are on the boat for the booze cruise, that he's editing, he goes, I knew what happened.
And I was still there going, kiss her, kiss her.
Come on, Jim, kiss her.
You're working on the show, you know what's gonna happen, and you're still so invested that you're yelling at the screen to have the characters kiss.
That's rare in any medium, but on television at the time, it was unheard of.
So we were yelling at the screen things like that, kiss her, and oh my God, and Jim can't come back from Stanford with her.
Come on and Pam's doing this when she walks across the hot coals We were just invested in everything and then on top of that it was hysterical So it was just an added bonus to the show was lightning in a bottle.
I mean, it's tough to get that again I don't know if we ever will frankly.
I mean, I don't know if I ever will, you know It was it was a dream job.
Yeah, they exact came around at the exact right time And I felt like I was ready my acting coach always says successful come when your readiness meets the opportunities.
And so you can be as ready as you are and then never have an opportunity.
But likewise, you can have all the opportunities in the world, which I was getting with all of my auditions for three camera shows.
But I wasn't ready.
And so the office, for me, was the thing where finally the opportunity met the readiness.
I think that's true for a lot of our cast, too, because we had a lot of really great season comedians that had just been, you know, plugging away.
Kate Flannery is hilarious.
She was part of a lounge act called the Lamp Shades.
Oscar Nunez, I had met at the Groundlings.
He was in Hot Towel.
We had a scene together, you know, obviously Steve Rain, everyone had been sort of putting their dues in, putting their time in, and it was just that right moment.
But I have a question for you guys.
So, okay, if you could play a character on The Office, like, which one would you wanna play?
Oh, that's such a good question.
Will I really hope you say Dwight?
Yeah, we've gotta be Dwight.
Comedy does actually tend itself towards Dwight.
You'd be Jim. Yeah.
Yeah. I'd be Dwight and you'd be Pam.
I'd wanna be Pam. Yeah.
I would have to agree with that assessment.
Yeah. I would have to agree with that assessment entirely.
Now I really really wish we had brought a Jim Pam Dwight scene with us.
Which scene would you like?
Which scene would you like?
No, I mean that's definitely how I would have cast it too if it had to be the three of us to do it.
It would have been that.
Is it true that there was a chance you guys were going to be canceled after the first six?
Oh yeah. Not just after the first six.
The first six episodes, any day when we went, we were like, oh, we're still here.
Yay. We were not a hit.
And also NBC wasn't rallying behind us at all.
No, we were very surprised to get a pickup for season two, but the pickup for season two was only six episodes.
and then they ordered only six more.
And then they ordered the back 12.
And we ended up with 24 episodes.
But I mean, yeah, at the end of this six episodes, those first six, they printed my name on paper and they just laminated it with some Velcro and that's what was on my door.
So I took my laminated piece of paper home with me.
I'll save him forever because we just thought that was it.
So what episode would you then look to and say that's the one where we knew what we were doing everybody knew we were gonna go From here.
We're now a hit. This is what's gonna happen It's very clear to me as far as like the downloads because the Christmas episode With Yankee swap and babies playing jazz poster and Phyllis the sad oven mitt all of that the teapot That episode became the number one download on iTunes.
Okay. And so the ratings weren't there the ratings So there was, is right there, but this new world of like, oh wait, we can make money off of this other thing, this downloadable item, not the cast, the cast doesn't get money for that.
But people were watching it on their iPods.
Remember like this.
And they were like, oh, okay.
Also the Yankee swap.
Yes. Video iPod. Now what about you guys?
Did you always have, well, you mentioned individually you felt like you could be fired at any moment, but what about the show as a whole?
Yeah, we always felt like we were pretty much on the bubble.
We never ever maybe three to four or four to five, maybe one season, we were forced up for the next one, maybe we were kind of it was also just a weird position to be a kid's show.
We felt like nobody was watching, you know, like we'd had no cultural feedback.
There was no there was no culture, but there was also just no way that kids could like we would get recognized, like go to the mall.
But otherwise, like as far as like the industry or we were nothing, we felt like we were getting no, you know, and so it's only now that we're like, oh my God, we were big.
Well, we also had one of our other executive producers on, not the one who used to give us notes, but another one who just recently came on and said that was also a network thing where they specifically didn't want you to know that you were popular so that they couldn't go and ask for more money to make the show.
If you're always on the bubble then you're lucky we're giving you this budget, so don't ask for any more because you barely got picked up.
Where if we knew the show was...
or they knew that the show was popular, the executive producers go in and ask for the moon.
So to stop that they would kind of make us seem like we're just, we're lucky to be there.
Don't forget, you're lucky to be there.
We were canceled in 2000 with, what, like a 25 share?
Nowadays everybody would chill for that kind of audience.
But that was a big drop for us.
So that was I mean, it was like, Oh my God, we're only getting a 25.
Yeah, we're done. Did you feel like you got to wrap up the show?
Yeah, yeah, we got a nice you know, we had a very nice hour long with the retrospective and where everybody moves.
Because we really did get a chance to say goodbye.
It wasn't like we were just done.
And our final scene was so great.
Like it was a really nice final scene.
And we're all like really crying.
Actually, we'll all be in the classroom.
Yeah, we didn't rehearse it throughout the week.
We just read it at table read and then shot it once in front of the audience.
That was it. And so it's us saying goodbye to Bill Daniels as Mr. Feeney, and all of us just real emotion, crying, kind of talking to each other in character.
Very emotional. I'm very thankful for that.
And I don't think a lot of, you know, actors get that experience.
it's just, you're just done in closure.
You don't get any, like, notice.
Yeah, your character doesn't get closure, you don't get closure as a group or as a crew.
A lot of people just get canceled.
You're just like, not next year, guys.
Like, oh. For me, moving into any other acting job after A Boy Meets World was a shock.
It was like, wait, we're not all best friends?
We're gonna be together forever?
It was like, oh, right, that is such a rare gift. Yeah.
Well, I was gonna say that I think that's something that our cast have in common, which is that, like Angela was saying, for a lot of the people in the office, this was really our first big job.
And you're a very open vessel when it's your first big job.
And we all learned together.
We learned about parts of the industry together.
None of us had ever done a junket.
None of us had ever been to the upfront, so to all the business stuff that goes behind the making of a show or the publicity or anything, and so we're really bonded, not just because of the show we were on but because we kind of learned about the entertainment business together.
Like a media tour. It's all that.
Get up at 4am and talk to 25 news stations.
25 radio stations. Yeah, that have a delay, but you can't see them!
But I was just going to say, you just sit there like...
Yeah, exactly. I'm sorry.
No. You go ahead! And also you guys must have been there for each other for just fame.
Like what that weird experience is like, of like getting recognized.
And now everybody's talking.
It's like a weird thing, you know?
And so glad we had each other.
Like, yeah, we have people come up and say this to us all the time.
which is like, you look like an older version of that lady on the office.
And we are like, that's true.
You are correct. We are the older version of the lady on the office.
I know. Hindsight being what it is, would you have done anything else with your characters or anything different with your characters if you could go back and do it again?
You know what? Yes.
I maybe would not have changed Pam's hair.
Really? I kind of fought to change the frizzy mullet.
When she started dating Jim, I said, I think she's growing as a person, and I had this whole thing in my head character wise that she was gonna go to art school and she's with her love now and so maybe she's gonna do more than just let her hair air dry and put it in the clip.
Like maybe she's just gonna crimp a little bit more, and then later, I became sort of sad that that sort of signature hairdo was gone.
So you might see it in the later seasons.
I tried to bring it back.
A tiny bit. But when I rewatched the show, I became somewhat sad when Pam's hair changed.
That's so funny. And I kind of wish that I had just let her be.
You even make fun of it in one episode.
Do I? Where you say, yeah the, including this very old, frizzy haired picture of me.
Yes. When they're doing the big beads, going all the way around.
You're putting the beans on people's tears.
What does the bean mean?
someone tell kevin what a bean means yeah and greg didn't want me to change it he really loved it like he yeah i somehow wore him down well Mindy had already worn him down well this is true i mean Kelly's transformation yeah yeah so by the time you wanted it he was like all right he was like whatever some of that was a little bit selfish because what would happen is after work maybe there'd be an event or something we wanted to go to, and I didn't want to go to that event with frizzy Pam hair.
And so I was like, if I could be halfway there, if you could just help me a little bit, yeah, it would be a lot easier.
That's part of the rewatch is like recognizing how different the lived experience is, like the lived experience as an actor is like, I want my hair to look like my hair, I don't care about the iconography of Pam, but now that you can go back and watch it, you're like, actually that iconography was pretty great.
Yeah. You should've talked first then and you could see it more like the way your producer did.
Like you could see you with your hair.
Oh, all the time. Yeah, it's like why, you know.
You said the same thing, yeah.
I mean, it's like your lived experience, it's really, it's important.
And as an actor, you put a good actor in it.
For us, it was also because of how we grew up on the set.
It was a little bit of control.
Oh yeah. Like if we could go and cut our hair, then we have a little bit of control.
Yeah, exactly. It's a different thing.
But I think as an actor, it is hard to recognize, you know.
What about you, Ann?
I wouldn't change anything.
Nothing took up. I totally wouldn't.
I just - Would you have worn your pantyhose?
Never, and I didn't.
Don't you think, though, if you're being honest. I was just honest about Pam's hair.
If you're being honest, and I want you all to weigh in, don't you think the character of Angela Martin would wear pantyhose?
Yeah, yes. Of course.
Right, Angela? No, no, no. Although I would have to say - I hate pantyhose.
I refuse. Do pantyhose really pick up cat hair?
And probably get run by cats.
That's true! Thank you.
You're right. I see.
Character -wise. Yes, yeah.
Character -wise. That was part of my character assessment, that she would not spend all this extra money on clothes that would just get scratched up.
You'd have to be like me today.
And have an extra hair in your purse in case it gets run.
She also buys most of her clothes at stores where they sell large, colonial American dolls.
Yeah, cuz Gap Kids is too flashy.
So they might not have the type of Gap Kids as flashy.
Okay, this makes me want to ask you a question.
What do fans ask you to sign?
Is there a quote from each of your characters?
Because I know ones that I get asked that one.
Of course, yeah. I have a catchphrase so I have something called a phoenix.
So I get asked to sign that quite a bit that life's tough, get a helmet or the Good looking guy theme song from the episode you watched.
Right. I wondered if you had to sing that.
Because I know Craig Robinson.
People ask him to sing out of paper.
Yes. Out of stock. Yes, yes.
So, yeah, no, having a catchphrase, you have to write the same thing.
Do I? No, I was thinking you don't really have one.
I get asked to do hello, bye bye, I'm so at the mall.
Yes. I get asked...
Topanga says something to Corey at one point where she says, you are you, and I am I, and if in the end we end up together, it's beautiful.
So, I get that quote.
People like us to write dream, try, do good, even though we didn't say it.
Use a mirror, babe.
Use a mirror, babe.
Oh, you get to use a mirror, babe.
It's an episode where I walk where her first episode, and she was like, very much a hippie.
She draws with lipstick during like reciting a poem.
And so I walk in and I look at her and just say, use a mirror, babe, and that was a big laugh.
But that's it. Like, I don't really have like, catchphrases.
That's interesting.
There's a little bit of an Office Boy Meets World crossover connection, but Will you might be the only person who has it, which is casting director, Alison Jones.
She passed your pilot episode.
She's a legendary casting director.
Yeah, she wasn't on our show.
And I don't even remember.
I went back like, five times.
I don't remember her.
I don't you know. I do.
Yeah, no, it's too bad.
So, I mean, I'm sure I've met her.
But yeah, I was too young to.
Well, we have another connection from the episode that you actually had us watch is Hank, your security guard. Yes.
Yeah, he's the coach on Boy Meets World.
Oh, he's so fantastic.
Matthews b team doesn't get suited up for away games is the one who plays Hank.
That's amazing. You know, I hustled up the stairs.
I love that scene so much. when he's going between the couch and the chair.
He takes a little, like, jelly bean.
That was an improv.
He did that. And I laughed the first time he did it.
So great. And then that is so bold!
But also just when he sits in Bam's chair.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, my God.
It just, it was really hard for me not to laugh.
There was a few times we broke.
One of the most, I would say, really precarious moments of Ed breaking was, um, his character has to take a bite of a tuna fish sandwich. Oh yeah.
It's really a tuna fish sandwich. And then I have to go and kiss him.
Yeah. I thought of that while it was happening.
Yes. And, um, ed right before the takes said, and I'm not going to open my mouth at all.
So you don't get any of this tuna.
I said, thank you. The camera.
Couldn't see his face right.
As I grabbed him, my body's blocking, but he'd go like this and he would hold, cause he had to hold his breath cause I wanted it to be this like, and he started to break at one point and I got to.
And he's like, you see me kind of wipe my Oh my god, it was so gross and it was like I'm sorry.
Guys, this was so fun.
This was amazing. So wonderful writer.
Thank you for reaching out.
To me. This was so cool.
It was really great.
And it was really nice for us to be able to look you in the eyes and to thank you for paving the way for us to even have a show.
And so we just we admire you both so much admire what you do love your work, both podcast and TV.
So thank you for everything.
Thank you. Thank you.
Will I will be getting your phone number for future office ladies.
Let us know what happened on your show.
Well, that was so much fun.
They are so fun, ladies.
They really are. I'm so glad we did that, I'm so glad that Ryder suggested it.
Yeah, I love just hearing about their journey.
Becoming podcasters and re -watching their show.
Yeah. It was really cool.
I loved it. Well, listen everybody.
Head over to PodMeets World because we did part one of this collaboration where PodMeets Office Ladies.
We watched an episode of Boy Meets World and we talked all about it.
Yes we watched Here Today Goon Tomorrow.
And neither of us had seen it and we talked all about it and we learned a lot of behind the scenes details.
Yeah they gave us a quiz too and I mean you won.
I did well. Anyway alright you guys go listen to that and we hope you have a great week.
See you next week! Thank you for listening to Office Ladies.
Office Jenna Fisher and Angela Kinsey.
Our executive producer is Cassie Jerkins.
Our audio engineer is Sam Keefer and our associate producer is Ainsley Bubbico.
Odyssey's executive producer is Leah Ries -Dennis.
Office Ladies was mixed and mastered by Bill Schultz.
Our theme song is Rubber Tree by Creed Bratton.
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