Hi, my name is Nathan Lane and I feel It's about fucking time I was asked to be Conan O'Brien's friend.
Fall is here.
Hear the yell Back to school, ring the bell, Brand new shoes, walkin' blues, Climb the fence, books and pens.
I can tell that we are gonna be friends.
Hey there, welcome to Conan.
O'Brien Needs a Friend.
Joined here by Sona Movsesian and Matt Gourley.
And man, things are getting heated in here because Matt Gourley just made a suggestion.
And you said, because we were trying to think of what do we talk about here up front.
Well, let's go back a little further and preface it with that.
You always want to have something nailed down that we're going to talk about.
And Sona and I are a little bit more, you know, frankly chill.
Yeah, exactly.
I guess the difference would be you two are always saying, let's just talk about anything.
Because in the podcast world, you can literally just talk about anything.
And hey, man, that's what happened, man.
We laid out what was happening in the moment, which is nothing.
And isn't that great?
And everyone gets a podcasty award.
Podcasty.
Yeah.
I come from a different world of thinking about things and planning them and writing them beforehand.
On such shows as The Simpsons, Saturday Night Live.
Boring.
Seven different.
Never heard of them.
Yeah.
Anyhoots, my point is I was taking a second to try and think of something.
And you said.
After a long pause.
After a long pause.
No one's chiming in.
Yeah.
No one's chiming in.
And you said, well, it's windy out here in L.A.
Pretty stupid.
And, yeah, but no one attacked you for it.
We just sort of was like, nah, not that.
That's not it.
And then Blay got upset.
And Blay, you said... Well, listen, I think that I...
I want this podcast to be the best it could be.
What I said was, he said, it's windy out.
And you said no.
And then you didn't say anything else.
I didn't put him down.
I didn't go after him.
That's right.
You just let it pass.
You leaned in because you'll sometimes make suggestions.
That's right.
And it's a little bit like whack-a-mole.
This gray-haired, gray-bearded Blay sticks up.
Whack-a-mole?
Whack-a-mole where all the moles are Blay.
What? whack-a-blay whack-a-blay and i just i bash you down and sometimes i go after you for a while because it's fun times but you said if i had said that that's right you'd have gone after me that's right and i had said that right before i said i literally had the thought of i think this is a suggestion blay would make and i don't mean that in a bad way i just what other way could you Well, I still said it, didn't I?
Yeah.
Oh, thanks.
That's a real vote of confidence.
No, I didn't mean it that way.
I still said it, didn't I?
But I pointed out that the difference is in presentation.
Right.
I pointed out that what Gorley did is Gorley quietly went.
Well, we can talk about how it's windy out.
And he has, it's a little dry.
He undersold it.
He undersold it.
He's back from the mic.
And I'm like, yeah, right.
We're not going to do that.
And I pointed out to you, Blay, when you make a suggestion.
It's true.
Although you have a naturally loud speaking voice.
You will never be lost in the desert, ever.
That's true, you're right.
And I will say, hold it, I'm not done.
I'm not done.
You don't get the speaking stick ever again.
So what you do is you have a loud voice anyway.
You lean into these, are these Heifel Wesse microphones?
What are they?
Heifel Wesse?
Are they Steibenscheises?
They're dynamic.
Dynamic?
So let's get the Heifel Wesse, they're better.
These are very, very sensitive microphones.
Cardio.
And what you do, Blay, is you take your whole body.
You're a large man, a large, powerful man.
And you lean in and you almost deep throat the microphone.
And you would have said, hey, we can talk about how it's windy out.
And people listening in their cars would be crashing on the 405, the 10, all across this great nation.
Cars would be going off.
You know what I mean?
But this is what makes Blay magical is you are able to do this open hearted.
I had to come at it as like, I know I'm going to get hit for this.
That's what I meant.
Like, I'm going to, I think I'm going to get hit.
He's confident about it.
And I have to say, I think Blay, you're the MVP of this entire place.
And you make this place go around.
Yeah.
And can I say something else, Blay, in your favor?
No, I think it's a great pointing at me when you don't need to point at me when you're addressed.
Yes.
Stop pointing at me.
It's very aggressive.
This is a compliment, but you have an unearned confidence.
No, no, no.
That's not a compliment.
No, no, no.
I don't think you know what a compliment means.
Wait a minute.
Isn't a compliment where you really get someone?
No.
No, a compliment is a nice thing you say about someone.
And you don't qualify it.
Well anyway, you are every time you light the fuse and the TNT blows up in your face.
It's a new, it's like it's happening for the first time.
And you're just like, this should go well.
Blay, you're the coyote who's never learned.
You've opened up 700,000 Acme boxes.
Charlie Brown and the football.
Yeah, Charlie Brown and the football.
And you just keep going for it.
I don't know if you've ever said this on mic, but you did say once.
You're like I love it when and you said this completely honestly I love it when you come running through the door with a wet fart.
I don't know what that means even now.
Like, hey, everybody, and then just look at me, and then just...
I never said that.
What I'm trying to say is that's coming out.
You did say that.
Take it out.
Don't worry, boss.
I'll definitely just drive and drop it.
All I want to say here is all I want to say here is if it's a I first of all, I disagree.
It's about presentation.
I do think there is.
Do you think your presentation could be better?
Yes.
Let's try it.
Can I just say it?
Pitch windy the way you think we would.
Well, now I'm self-conscious about it.
It's okay.
You got it.
You got this.
Hey, guys, what should we talk about?
Do it.
You guys just sit over here.
The lights are, you know, I feel like I have to lean in to be hurt.
You don't.
You don't.
To be hurt or heard.
You don't.
Because you do get hurt.
You don't.
It's a microphone.
Psychologically being back here, don't you think, Eduardo?
I've been back there.
It's true.
Eduardo, back me up.
Don't you think we have to lean in to be part of the conversation?
Is that not true?
Eduardo never yelled.
Listen to that voice.
Listen to that voice.
Can I say something?
I'm going to back up my boy here.
I'm going to say this.
When you speak, Eduardo, I am like, oh my God, I want to hear what Eduardo has to say.
Because he has, he always says, you've got a beautiful voice.
You're very calm.
You're centered.
You're not, your whole tone of voice is not begging for acceptance.
I'm going to back up my boy here and I'm going to say I admire.
I think he's brave.
I think he knows.
I think that's true.
No one knows what a compliment means.
No, no, he is brave.
Like a lemming is brave.
A lemming that just throws itself mindlessly off a cliff.
Those brave lemmings.
To his point, being in the shadows over here, yes, you don't know.
It's like a game of jump rope.
You don't know when to jump in, when to jump out.
And you don't want to trip and be the idiot that stumbles upon the rope.
He knows that you're probably going to shit on him for his ideas, but he still will pitch them anyway.
So I think he's self-aware.
But that's why I say he's brave.
All I know is that the most powerful salvo in the world was lobbed at you and it bounced off of you, which is Harrison Ford told.
You said shut the fuck up, Blay.
And Tom Hanks.
And Tom Hanks.
Both of the most iconic stars of the 20th and 21st century told you to shut the fuck up.
And it was like watching someone shoot a spitball at an aircraft carrier.
I think we should make you two medals of valor for those that you get to wear.
It didn't affect you at all.
Anyone else would be in the hospital for the rest of their lives if both of those stars had told them to shut the fuck up.
That's right.
This is a really... Can we please put on the rap light, for God's sakes?
We put the rap light on like... Are we going to talk about the wind?
Shut the fuck up, Sona!
Shut the fuck up, Sona!
All right, my guest today is a Tony Award-winning actor who has starred in such movies as The Producers and The Birdcage.
Now you can see him in the new Hulu series, Mid-Century Modern.
I'm delighted he's here.
I'm thrilled.
Nathan Lane, welcome.
Thank you.
I'm going to start by saying there's a moment that I had with you that is very important to me.
And you're not going to be aware of this, but it meant the world to me.
And you've done very nice, very many nice things for me over the years, including doing this amazing thing on our final late night show, which was fantastic.
You are what the Irish call a mensch.
But you...
Just before we started the podcast, you very sweetly came over and you offered your condolences about my parents passing away last month.
And it reminded me of this very special moment in my life when my mother came to town.
She didn't come to New York often.
She was, you know, pretty much stayed in Boston, but she came to town.
And the biggest thing to do at that time in New York it was the biggest thing in the world was go and see the producers.
And I told my mother, I'm gonna take you to the producers.
And my mother couldn't believe it because even in Boston, they knew that this was a huge deal.
So we went and we saw the producers.
And one of my favorite memories of that night is we saw the producers and my mother was not a you know, she was from central Massachusetts.
She mostly stayed in Boston.
She didn't go see Broadway shows.
She's now seeing the biggest thing in the history of Broadway.
It's you, it's the whole full original cast, Matthew Broderick.
I will never forget at the end of the show, she was doing that clapping.
It's not down here, it's up here.
My mother, who basically looks so much like me, imagine me in a wig.
Clapping like this.
So then we get up and someone very kindly came over and said, would you like to say hello?
And I said, well, I'm always shy about those things, but I thought, well, if it's possible.
And I said, oh, hi, Nathan.
We went backstage.
Hi, Nathan.
And this was the.
I mean literally kings queens presidents, everybody would come backstage with the producers every night.
And I came over and I said, Nathan, this is my mom.
And you said, me?
Mrs. O'Brien, you gave her this big hug.
You acted like it was the biggest thing in the world.
My mother was transported into another realm and may have hastened her death.
Oh my God.
Saying 20 years passed, but I think she could have lived another five.
And so I'm accusing you of murder.
No, I don't know why I ruined things.
It was the nicest, and I'll never forget it.
I'll never forget it.
It was a beautiful moment, and you are...
I mean, people know Nathan Lane, the famous person from television movies Broadway, but you are a extremely sensitive person, probably to your own detriment.
You know what I mean?
You're not a thick-skinned soul, and in that moment I could just see what a lovely, fantastic person you are.
Well that's – aside from the murder accusation.
That was an incredibly kind and moving thing to say.
You know, as someone who – in the public eye, you know, as you –
You know, especially you know when doing a Broadway show eight times a week and people, when people do come back, it is awkward because they don't, unless they're theater veterans and they understand the etiquette of no matter what.
Even though it's a terrible show, you hated it.
You say that was the greatest night of my life.
And thank you for a wonderful performance.
And you leave.
As opposed to walking in and saying, I have some issues with the play.
Yes.
You know, there are those people.
Right.
But you have to, I think as you get older, you learn to be gracious.
And also you have to take the ball and say, I'm so glad you're here.
And you fill, you fill in.
And then if they're able to say something, that's great.
But you make them feel good about what they just experienced.
I mean, very often what you want to say is, I wish you were here last night.
You know, the matinee didn't go so well.
Yeah.
You know, you've got to make it a positive for them.
But what's interesting is that what you're doing is you've just done a show where you're giving it all you've got.
I mean, yes, Matthew was working hard in that show, but come on.
I mean, you're using your instrument... in every single possible way.
And then I don't think people realize when they come backstage you're putting on another show for them.
You're worried about them.
You're making sure that they get what they need, which is kind of insane.
You know, well, you know, you should be taken away by helicopter.
You're done with a performance.
Yes.
You know it's that.
That's a part of the gig, you know and you and then you know yeah, you go off and go to go to immediately to bed.
But.
Yeah, it's I mean, it's why I don't want I wouldn't want to do it.
I don't want to I wouldn't want to be in the middle of a musical anymore.
Eight times a week.
I just it's for it's a young man's game because it's just it's like being a quarterback.
In my career, I always had a real problem with the transition to I'll just curl up with a good book.
Yeah, no, you can't.
Yeah.
When you're with that kind of energy.
Yeah.
And so what what did you do?
Did you have a trick for because I'm just thinking, I mean, so many Broadway references.
I mean, I saw you before I even started the late night show.
I think I saw you do laughter on the 23rd floor.
And I was like, I don't know how he goes to sleep tonight.
Right.
Like, I don't know how he... Well, there was just many years of just a lot of drinking.
Let's point out there if you're out there and you have trouble sleeping, drinking is the message we have for you.
That really helps.
You know, I think it's just look, you know those days when you would go out.
If it didn't go well, you would go out and have drinks.
Yep.
And if it did go well, you went out and had drinks.
Yes.
And, you know, you could get away with it in your youth.
Yes.
But that changes as you get older.
It's, yeah, you just go to bed a little later.
It takes a while to come down from all of that.
I used to go to sleep at 1.30, 2 in the morning.
Sure.
And, yeah, it was.
Well, you'd talk to your wife, wouldn't you?
I wasn't married at the time.
Oh.
But I knew who she was going to be, so I'd call her.
She'd say, who is this?
And I'd say, it's your future husband, Conan O'Brien.
And she would say, I'm not a fan of that show.
Sure.
He seems needy.
But I think what's- Remember that one time I saw you, we were at the Angelica Cinema.
You know what?
I know exactly what you're talking about.
And I was like, it was like seeing your teacher, you know, at the supermarket.
I was like, it's Conan and I can see his legs.
And you were with this gorgeous woman.
That's my wife.
And it was so I was happy to see you, but I was like this is awkward because he doesn't have cards.
He's not going to ask me that question where I have a great bed I wrote.
I thought what was awkward is that I did immediately produce cards.
Nathan, I understand you had a funny thing happen at the forum.
Now tell me, I understand you have a funny story about avocados.
And then I threw the commercial while we were standing waiting to see a movie.
No, my wife and I, Liza, we ran into you.
And it is strange when you see someone outside of The weird, I don't know bubble.
Whatever we live in,
We were waiting for the movie to start.
I remember you seemed a little downcast.
You know, have we met?
Yeah.
I thought maybe it's me.
Like, Nathan's thinking, oh, Jesus.
Bring down the mood again.
Conan O'Brien, I can't do it.
No.
I'm sure I got nervous.
Like, oh, I better be funny.
Something like that.
I'm sure.
There's high stakes when you're in a movie lobby.
But, you know, it's so funny because I relate.
There are many ways in which I think you and I could probably relate.
As friends.
As friends, but it's also, I think we're both Irish.
We both come from, we were raised very Catholic, I believe.
And I know that my self-defense mechanism that I learned very early on was to just beat up on myself and hate myself.
If I get to me before anyone else gets to me, then I beat them to the punch.
Yeah.
And I always kind of sense that when I would hang with you like oh, I think Nathan and I have there's a kinship here.
Sure.
I know you had a, there was alcoholism in your family.
I know this is a dark thing to bring up.
It's funny because there was.
There was in my family because we had.
There had been alcoholism throughout the family tree, my parents.
I grew up in a dry house.
Oh, which is a thing you see in some Irish culture, which is they're so afraid of it that you can't even have a rum cake in the house.
Like there was nothing, there was no, you couldn't.
So I grew up kind of being told that it will kill you if you get near it.
And it was the way people talk about like fentanyl now.
That was how wine was treated when I was growing up.
It just wasn't in the house.
And then, if company came over, my dad had a little like rusty key and we would open up a little cabinet and take out what must have been the shittiest bottle of wine in the world that he had just capped.
The last time someone had had a glass, didn't know how to store it, blew dust off of it and gave someone basically vinegar.
There was a lot of ways where I feel maybe we would relate.
Yes, as Irishmen, sure.
The dark humor and self-deprecating.
And also something that I... Samuel Beckett vibe.
We bring to every party.
You said I love this quote.
I was reading an interview with you and you said that you felt like you grew up in a bad Eugene O'Neill play.
And then later you revised that, but why don't you elaborate on that?
Oh, well, it was, you know, my father was an alcoholic, became an alcoholic.
Really, I was born, my mother had me when she was 40.
And not long after, he started drinking really heavily and essentially drank himself to death.
And my mother then sort of had a kind of breakdown after his death and her own mother's death.
And she... eventually was diagnosed as bipolar.
Then it was called manic depression.
It was a difficult childhood in that I had to grow up fast.
I sort of became the adult.
My two older brothers were going to college.
They were sort of on the way out, although they were very much involved.
And.
But when I was going to high school, it was just my mother and myself and she was going through these phases of depression and manic behavior and in and out of mental hospitals.
And I never really had much of a relationship with my father.
He died when I was 11.
I can remember saying to my brother, my oldest brother Dan, you know we were going to the funeral and I said um, I was upset and he said what's?
And I said to him I said I can't cry.
I'm supposed to be crying now.
Yeah.
My father died and I can't cry.
He said, that's all right.
He said, you feel how you feel and it doesn't, that, that's not important.
Yeah.
And, um, Which was ahead of its time, by the way, for him to say that.
Yeah, yeah.
And he was not the healthiest guy in the world himself.
Yeah, you know, yeah, he was, well, you know, he was a teacher.
And he certainly, and he was my oldest brother who got me interested in the theater and reading.
And, you know, he became sort of a father figure.
Thank you.
There's this thing that happens I think it's true of a lot of performers where they take whatever they've been given and then they realize.
My experience was I just went down a checklist when I was a kid
And mostly it was things I wasn't good at, you know?
I mean, literally.
I mean, I remember doing like a mental rundown of well, it's not going to be anything in the athletic field.
I think that's quite clear.
It's not going to be, I'm not really a ladies' man.
Me too.
Yeah.
So I just keep clicking things off.
And you figure out what weapon you have in your toolbox.
And you must have figured out at a... And you find your group.
Yes, you find your... You know, you have to find the person who laughs at your jokes and gets it.
And gets what you're talking about.
I'm still looking.
It's a quest.
An epic quest.
Yeah.
But when... So you figure out...
And fairly, probably, what is it, high school, you realize, like, I like to get up there.
I like to be in front of people.
I think you know honestly, I can remember as a child like doing they would say I would get up and do impressions.
I would try to entertain the family.
And I had, like, a bad club act.
And then I was in a, you know, a grammar school play.
I remember getting a laugh in that and thinking, oh, this was like blood to a vampire.
Yes.
And then...
And then in high school, I started to do plays and it was social.
It was finding your people.
But it was just I didn't I didn't think it could be a profession.
Right.
Nor did I. And and then nearing the end of high school, I realized maybe I could.
My brother would also not only encouraged me, but he took me to see theater in New York to see plays, plays on Broadway and off Broadway.
And sometimes with classes that he was teaching, he would take a class and I would go with him.
And I would you know that first experience of watching the curtain go up and the lights on the stage and thinking I'd like to be a part of that.
I think maybe I could do that.
Yeah.
And the excitement of just the ritual of it all.
People quieting down as the curtain goes up and there's, you know, nothing quite like it.
Do you still I mean, after all of this, all of these crazy hits of dopamine and success, can you still access that when you're in a show?
Oh, absolutely.
Yes.
Isn't that amazing?
Absolutely.
You don't get, oh, yeah, no, this is old.
I'm just giving them the old number 42B, you know.
No, I'm, you know, I'm here making this multicam mid-century modern.
And every Tuesday night when we tape it, it's like you feel the adrenaline and you think you know you want it to go well.
And there's because of this process, which is sort of a whirlwind process.
And I was saying to someone today, it's really more of a writer's process.
It's their sort of rewriting.
This is multicam.
And they rewrite throughout the week.
Yes.
It's sort of thrilling.
It's all flying by the seat of your pants.
But it's also like, is this acting or am I just repeating what you said to me three seconds ago?
Right.
But somehow it all comes together.
But I certainly, before we start, I feel that kind of the thing you feel before a live performance.
The thing you felt as a kid.
Yes.
It doesn't go away.
No.
No.
I didn't realize this, but when you did the birdcage, that was a big boost, step up.
You were doing well, very well-established Broadway, but you did the birdcage.
But with Robin Williams, Mike Nichols had to talk you into it.
Is that true?
No.
By the way, we do very bad research here.
And your name is...
Your name is... Jason Alexander.
Jason Alexander.
And you did... And I'm wearing the wig today.
No.
I... Yeah.
I thought he had to talk you into it or that you were... No.
Okay.
I'll... Forgive me if you've heard this before, but...
Originally, you know, Mike the great, Mike Nichols and Elaine May have wanted to do that an American remake of La Cacha Fall for a very long time and then finally gotten the rights.
And it was supposed to be Steve Martin and Robin Williams.
And Robin was going to play the part I wound up playing.
Then, Steve, there was another obligation.
It wasn't going to work out.
And then Robin decided, I've just done Drag and Mrs. Doubtful.
I'm sorry.
I've been ignoring you people.
No, no, they're to be ignored.
They are to be ignored.
I can only make one new friend at a time.
So I don't know what you're doing with the rest of the afternoon, but maybe lunch and I can deal with you and your childhoods.
So Robin decided after Mrs. Doubtfire, maybe I shouldn't play the drag part and that the acting challenge would be playing the more subdued character.
And so it opened up that role.
And Mike came to see me and laughed around the 23rd floor.
And I had met him briefly once.
And, you know, it's like meeting God.
And then he came backstage, which he had never done, and he said dear boy, I'd like to talk to you about a movie.
And I was like, oh, you want to go see one?
I hear Conan's hanging out at the Angelica.
He's in the lobby.
Who is this Conan?
And can I call you?
And he did.
And then.
So the next day it was this is happening and it's Elaine is writing the adaptation and Robin Williams is going to play the other part.
And I said, so I would I would be the drag queen.
And he said, yes.
I said, well, that's that's a very good part.
And he said, yes, it is.
And I said, okay.
And I couldn't believe it was happening.
Now, this is, you can cut me off at any point.
No, no, no.
I love this.
It's a long story.
So we also kind of did a.
He wouldn't make it, he wouldn't refer to it as a screen test, but they wanted to see what I would look like in drag and all of that.
And he made it fun.
And I sang a song and, you know, many outfits by the great Anne Roth, the costume designer.
And then I was supposed to do a funny thing happened on the way to the Forum.
They were building this around me.
And Scott Rudin called me, the producer of Forum, and he said, He's not going to make that movie.
That's never going to happen.
He's it's never going to work out.
You know it's, and he went on and I and and I had to, because of the scheduling, I had to turn it down.
I had to say, you know what?
I can't really leave these people in the lurch.
They've been building and the time frame now that you're talking about.
I couldn't I can't do that to them.
That's a crazy thing to say.
No, Mike Nichols.
Yeah.
I will not co-star in your film.
So so I said, OK, you know, and I told them and and then I would hear from I would see Mike Nichols.
I was this is I was talking about this the other day.
I would see him from time to time.
He would like it once.
This was this.
This was afterwards.
There was a there was a period where there was a period where maybe Robin wasn't going to do the movie.
This is how long this went on.
And maybe, you know, he would say, how do you feel about Billy Crystal?
I'm nobody.
You know what I mean?
And I would say, I love Billy Crystal.
Why are you asking me?
And then, you know, one day he came up to me and we were at a benefit and he said, Robert Redford.
I said, is he here?
He said, no, Robert.
He said, Robert Redford as your husband.
And I said, well, if you can work that out, all my dreams will come true.
And so and then anyway, finally, I think Robin, it was, yeah, he was going to play the other part.
And then he calls me.
He was in Ireland.
And he says, Nathan, and I'm in my dressing room at laughter of the 23rd floor.
And he says, Nathan, I keep I'm meeting people, but I think you're the person.
And I said, I said, Mr. Mike Nichols, I have no power here.
Perhaps if you called Scott Rudin. something could be arranged.
He said, yes.
He's like an evil serpent.
Yes.
I don't mean to make him sound like that.
No, no, no.
He was.
No, but I know what you mean.
He had a, well, an aura, an iconic status.
Oh, yeah.
And so, yes, I could see him.
He's someone who can just say, yes.
He called you dear boy.
Yeah, and it has a power to it.
Oh, yes.
And so the next day, Scott Rudin said, you really want to do this movie?
Well, why wouldn't I want to do this movie?
And he said, it means we have to postpone a year.
And I said, I know.
I said, I know.
I turned it down.
He said, OK.
And then it wound up, of course, helping us with Forum, because by the time Forum opened, the movie had come out.
And I was not just this New York actor who was, you know, had lucked out in getting this, the lead in this musical.
But it was always the guy from that film that's doing well.
Right.
So it was Jason Alexander, Jason Alexander.
And so it so it's one thing helped the other.
And, you know, so I'm grateful to Scott Rudin, Mike Nichols, Robin Williams.
It was, you know.
I'm going to introduce someone who was.
One of the things I always say is a hallmark of a great career is that, depending on who you run into in any age group, they're excited about a different thing.
My co-host today sitting with me, David Hopping, who's here accidentally because Sona couldn't be here.
He lost his mind when he found out that he was going to be in a room with you because of The Lion King.
And yeah, we were walking in and Clay was like, do you mind sitting in today?
And I was like, with Disney royalty, of course I want to sit in here.
Yeah, we just did this thing at the Hollywood Bowl.
I think it's airing soon.
It was a 30th anniversary.
I can't believe that concert of you know, Jennifer Hudson and a lot of people from the original cast and the new people and people from the Broadway show.
It was quite the extravaganza.
But it was fun to be reunited with Ernie Sabella, who played Pumbaa, and he's an old friend and And I also think I had some experience with this working on The Simpsons.
But people don't realize that voice work.
None of it works if it's not there in the voice.
I don't care how good the animation is.
I don't care how good the story is.
If the actor who's doing the voice can't capture it.
And I saw this on The Simpsons.
These people are just brilliant who do those.
It's Hank Azaria and Dan Castaneda and this whole...
If it's not there, you don't have anything.
And so to be one of those iconic Disney voices is pretty amazing.
Yeah.
Again sort of like you know, as a kid seeing those Disney films and I was always sort of fascinated by the voice actors.
And so to wind up doing that, and with a movie that started as something called King of the Jungle and nobody seemed to be excited about it.
And and and then auditioning for hyenas, you know, three hyenas.
And then Ernie happened to be there.
You know, we were both doing Guys and Dolls on Broadway at the time.
Yeah.
And he he had gone in first and he was going to leave.
And he said, I'll I'll stay with him and get lunch.
We and I said, well, would it be all right if he came in and we read together?
Because it's three hyenas and it'll give me someone to play off of and, you know, might be fun.
And.
And then you know, like two months later, they said well, we're developing these two, you know sidekick characters that are the comic relief and a warthog and a meerkat.
I said, great.
My dream.
My dream.
You know, and then we started.
It was like a two year process.
And you they show you drawings.
And we said to them, well, what do you how do you want them to sound?
And and they wanted it. him to be lower pitched and me to have a higher pitched voice.
But they said you're doing Guys and Dolls, so they should be like Damon Runyon characters, you know, in the Serengeti.
And so Ernie was just doing, he does a combination of no one will remember, a character actor named Wallace Beard.
Oh, yeah.
Who used to talk like this.
And then also a little bit of Michael Gotso from The Godfather.
Who's really high up here?
You know, Michael.
You know that he does.
So he does a combination of that.
And I'm just doing a, you know, Brooklyn Jewish meerkat.
That old thing.
That old thing.
And yeah, that's how to sort of how they came to life.
And then Ernie used to.
This was the big joke was that we would.
We're doing a show eight times a week and we go in to record very early and you know we're tired and so i'd be having coffee and we're going to start and ernie would just start making fart noises in the middle of you know, he'd say just to make me laugh and get me going, and then they put it in the movie, Which is why Pumbaa is the first flatulent character in a Disney film.
So that's literally just screwing around.
That was screwing around.
To make you chuckle.
Yes.
You know, little, you know, we improvise.
They use a little of it.
I mean apparently I don't even remember half of it, but they apparently I said you know, what do you want me to do?
Dress in drag and do the hula?
For some reason, it must have been a long day.
And then they made it a song.
Now, here's where the businessman in me says, you need a piece of that.
And I bet Disney is very easy to negotiate with.
Hey, Disney!
Get them on the phone?
Yeah.
You let me talk to them.
Okay.
I'll handle it.
All right.
I've gotten in with Disney.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's a Disney guy.
Yeah, big Disney guy.
I'm curious about this because I have a tendency to squish things down.
If things are good, I tend to just squish it down.
Like okay well, that was a nice thing that happened, but let's just squish that down and put it over here and not think about it.
Right, stick to the work, and it's sort of kind of a self-flagellating again.
God knows where this nonsense comes from.
I suspect we know, but are you able, I would want this for you.
I would want you, at this stage, to be able to say wow God, I've done so much good work and I am Nathan Lane, or feel some of that.
Well, I think it might be hard for you.
Sure.
It's funny you say that.
I had my my husband was here visiting and we had dinner.
It was my, I had a birthday recently and we were sitting there and I and I said to him you know, it's taken me such a long time to say
You know I really appreciate.
Maybe it's age, I just appreciate I have a lot of gratitude for what I've been able to accomplish with the.
You know so much about luck and opportunity.
And, you know, as Ina Garten says, be ready when the luck happens.
But you – you know the amount of talented writers and actors and directors I've gotten to work with and it's – you know it's – I'm very grateful and it's something to –.
Not only be proud of, but just not that you're resting on your laurels, but you feel like you know I have accomplished something.
Yeah.
And and then it's meaningful to people.
And then, whether it's you know, the Lion King or the Birdcage or these, you know huge, there were huge things in my life and that it and they meant something to someone is, you know, means everything.
I mean, you know, jumping back to, I was in New York doing the late night show when the producers happened and it was.
It was a cultural phenomenon.
Yeah, that rarely happens.
I mean, it was a lightning strike, but it was more than that.
It was.
There are hits on Broadway, but something happened and everyone agreed that this is the greatest thing that's ever happened in New York City.
And it was lovely to be around that.
And then I remembered thinking.
Oh, Jesus, you and Matthew have to walk around and everybody wants a ticket.
Every policeman, every guy who's there to open a manhole cover.
And they're not going to buy, Nathan, that you can't get them a ticket.
What do you do about that?
The sanitation workers were a big demographic for that show.
But, yeah, you know, that kind of thing.
I mean, like, you know, there's Hamilton and either that was sort of another one.
But that was I think that show was kind of it was about, obviously, Mel Brooks, you know.
Sure.
Yeah.
That genius.
And but it was also kind of a zeitgeist hit.
You know you would come out of a long period of the dark British musicals and there hadn't been anything that was kind of a return to old fashioned musical comedy.
Unapologetic.
Unapologetic, you know, you know, a sort of a Valentine and yet satirical at the same time.
And and with, you know, one of arguably one of the greatest comic plots ever conceived.
Yes.
And so we need this thing to fail.
Yeah, which is such a great idea, isn't it?
It's just, it's the beauty of that um so um, you know, and i certainly was uh, this huge fan of the film.
I, i literally saw the film for the first time in a revival house here in la, and with an audience filled screaming their heads off, and i was like zero mustel.
I've never seen anyone so huge on screen yeah, physically and emotionally, and yet truthful yeah, and gritty and just hilarious, and and the combination of him and gene wilder, and and so the notion that uh, when all of that started percolating, i started to hear he's writing a musical.
David geffen is trying to talk him into writing this musical based on the movie, and i thought well, it is a backstage story, it makes sense, you know, and um, And then somebody mentioned, you know, they had talked to him about it.
And then I was in.
This was the weekend.
I hate to mark it this way, but it was the weekend Princess Diana died.
And he wasn't my husband then, but my now husband and I were at the Ritz in Paris.
We went down to the pool and in the pool was Mel Brooks and Anne Bancroft.
And my husband's favorite actress was Anne Bancroft.
And he turned to me and he said, that's Anne Bancroft.
He said, I'm too nervous.
I can't swim in front of Anne Bancroft.
He went upstairs.
So I said, okay.
And then I went to the pool and I had met them.
Thank you.
This is like the benchmark laughter on the 23rd floor.
They came.
They had come to see it because there was a character based on Mel in the play about which he said that character based on me.
It's a tissue of lies.
Anyway, they were very great.
But I loved it.
But I loved it.
Anyway, he, you know, we said hello and I got in the pool and she and was swimming laps.
She left and he stayed in the pool with me, which I thought odd.
And then he swam over to me and he said, I'm working on a musical based on my movie, The Producers.
And I think you and Marty Short are the only two people in the world to play those parts, and i was like uh wow, i said that would be thrilling, i would be so honored, and yeah, and then uh, you know, time passed.
He had to write it with tom mann and then um, you know, marty had just done uh, you know brilliantly, little me.
He won the tony and he spent a lot of time in new york.
Didn't want to be away from the family uh, again that long.
And so Someone brilliantly suggested Matthew Broderick.
And I thought, in some ways, that's a better combination.
Yes.
His energy and my energy, as it turned out it was.
And he was sensational.
And it was the beginnings of this journey that we took together, being in the middle of that tornado.
Yeah.
And you think...
Oh, you know, you know, you'll never the hype.
You know, how can you live up to the hype?
The great thing, as you said, you know, all these people it's Barbara Walters and Kofi Annan are here after the show.
You know, you go, really?
Wow.
It's Bishop Desmond Tutu.
Loved it.
He's coming up the stairs.
So you go, wow.
Mrs. O'Brien is here.
Alan Greenspan.
Yeah.
And, you know, it was people like that.
You couldn't believe it.
But the people I loved would be like Harvey Korman.
Sure.
Coming back and saying, when you did that little piece of physical comedy and you go.
These are people who understand what it is we're doing, in a way.
Also, these are people that you watched when you were a kid.
To me, that was nothing will ever be more magical than when I get to meet the people that I saw.
And sadly there aren't many left, but I saw them on TV and they made me laugh when I was eight nine 10 12, 15.
And if they noticed me in any way and saw what I was doing and liked it, I think okay, I can die now.
Oh, sure.
It's not going to get better than this.
Tim Conway.
Yes, exactly.
I met him.
You know, these people you idolized.
Or Carol.
I mean, Carol Burnett, you know, came back and she got emotional.
And she said, you know, this reminds me of the old days of what Broadway was like.
And it's like, you know, Mel is throwing this huge party and you and Matthew are the hosts.
And it's, you know, it just was...
Yeah, it was that, especially in the beginning, that show you know the joy of it and the anarchy of it, like anything could happen because it had that.
You know that tone to it.
Yeah, that's kind of a once-in-a-lifetime thing.
No, it's not, because I've got a new idea.
The sequel?
Spartacus.
Oh, Spartacus.
The musical.
Spartacus the musical.
And I think you're perfect.
No.
Not as Spartacus.
No, I'm his lawyer.
You know what?
You all can't be called Spartacus.
There's a legal issue.
So now you're working, and it's nice because you're working with this cast.
You're making, it's multicam, so you're making mid-century modern.
Am I correct?
Linda Lavin was part of this.
Yes.
And she has since passed.
Yes, she has, sadly.
The show Alice is how I got to know Linda Lavin.
And that was her iconic TV role.
How much did you work with her?
Well, you know, in the theater, she's a beloved figure, Tony Award-winning actress.
Famously, I remember seeing her in Neil Simon's play, Broadway Bound.
She played his mother.
And, you know, it's one of the greatest stage performances I've ever seen.
And we knew each other just in passing.
You know, I was just a fan, and we would see each other occasionally.
And we'd always say, I hope we get to work together someday.
Sure.
So when this happened, it was.
This whole thing has been an incredibly happy experience, a rare thing.
And it's all the people who, you know, Jimmy Burroughs.
Yeah.
The director.
I've always again.
Jimmy Burroughs, one of these guys that I mean, cheers.
Going back to the Mary Tyler Moore.
Yes.
Friends.
Taxi.
Yeah.
You know, and it's created by Max Muchnick and David Cohan, who created Will and Grace.
And they've put together this tremendous writer's room with Jimmy there and what they're doing.
And then just the casting is everything.
And so Linda was... I don't know.
That's another podcast, maybe.
But it's been... It was... tragic and shocking and then emotional.
And then they took a week.
They pushed a week so that they could write an episode that deals with the death of her character and also where the show is going to go, going forward.
And they did a beautiful job and it was overwhelmingly emotional.
But she was...
You would not believe she was 87 years old.
I mean she was just.
And then you put her in front of an audience and you know she was, as Jimmy would say with a joke, she was like a heat-seeking missile.
She was just brilliant.
There is that thing I always heard it about george burns that when he was, you know, famously almost made it to 100, but when he was like 96 they said you could wake him up.
He could be sound asleep on an airplane and you could wake him up and he could do 10 minutes like, because that thing doesn't go away uh-huh, you know, i mean i know that god knows what will happen to me, but whenever if i'm in a coma And any of my writers come by or people come by and poke me, I will start doing a bit and then they'll kill me.
But what is that?
I mean, we just that's I think.
Yeah, no, she was just I mean, in general, she was a great actress.
I mean, she could do drama or comedy, but she was so brilliant.
This sort of thing.
And we just, it's just been a very happy family.
Matt Bomer and an actor named Nathan Lee Graham, who are sensational.
And Matt, who I feel like he's going to be the The revelation for a lot of people, because he's a big, handsome glute but also a wonderful, serious actor.
But he's riotously funny.
So it was an ordeal to get through.
And then we did this very emotional episode, and we felt like we honored her.
And then I started to get vertigo.
And I'd had it...
Since we've done therapy, I thought we'd now get to the more medical side of my life.
I can handle that as well.
I think it's a zinc deficiency.
Isn't it always?
So I had this about a year ago, what's called positional vertigo.
And then there's a thing called the Epley Maneuver, which you know sounds like a bad off-Broadway play.
The Epley Maneuver.
Playing at the village gate.
Anyway, and it usually goes away after a couple of days and some Dramamine.
So this time, it really hit me.
And I went to an ENT.
They gave me a cortisone shot.
But I'm holding on to walls.
My equilibrium really thrown.
And so I Google vertigo.
And the first thing that comes up is vertigo, the Dizzy and Vertigo Institute of Los Angeles in Beverly Hills.
And the pictures look nice and they look professional.
Never go by the picture.
And I'm like desperate.
So I go back.
So I make an appointment and I go back to the ENT the next day, Dr. Schnittman.
And Dr. Schnittman says it's not positional vertigo.
And I said, well, I'm going to the Dizzy Institute.
Right after.
This isn't real.
Which sounds like.
Schnitman says, don't go to the Dizzy Institute.
Like it should be run by Jennifer Coolidge.
Exactly right.
And so he says, that's where I was going to send you.
And I said, great.
And so I go and it's a very, it's a real serious place.
And they were incredible.
And they put me through a series of tests like a NASA astronaut.
In a chair, you go upside down.
All these tests, eye and ear coordination.
And they said, what you have is called labyrinthitis, which is a virus you get in the inner ear.
And I got it in the left inner ear, which was causing severe vertigo and nausea.
Yeah.
So the ENT put me on prednisone and then I had to do a series of exercises, you know, and what's called vestibular therapy.
And again we had to cancel a week so I could get over this.
And now we did the taping we were supposed to do last week, last night.
So how are you feeling now?
A little dizzy.
No, I feel... I picture when you go to the Dizzy Institute, all the furniture is made of rubber.
Like every, you know, anywhere you fall, it's you're boing, you're fine.
I said, I told this to Tina, I ran it to Tina Fey.
I told her about the Dizzy Institute.
She said, you don't want to go to that parking garage.
It's a very dangerous crash.
Smash.
Anyway, it's yeah.
No, thankfully.
Thankfully, I feel great.
And it's yeah, I made a recovery.
But it was it's a weird thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's but it's been it's it's you know, my I have a dicey history with the multicam.
Most people do.
The first one was not my fault.
It was Mickey Rooney's series called One of the Boys.
Dana Carvey and I did, I'm sure.
Yes.
You've discussed this with him.
It comes up occasionally.
Sure.
Yeah.
I was the biggest star in the world.
1940.
Yeah.
Bang.
Zoom.
I heard it all.
But that was 13 and out.
And then I did an episode of Frasier and I was nominated for an Emmy.
And they said, you know, if you ever want to do this, we'd love to develop something for you.
I said, OK.
They had won the Emmy five years in a row.
We did.
It was not the right fit.
13 and out.
Then I did a show with a writer for CBS, Jeff Richman, an old friend, wonderful writer from Modern Family.
He wrote a show, you know, did not work out.
And you didn't really get much support from Les Moonves, Salt of the Earth, Les Moonves.
Right.
So, you know, I was like, that's it's just never going to work out for me.
That's fine.
You know, I tried.
You know, it's a miracle when those when friends or those things come together.
Yes.
And this time I have to say working with.
But these are the best of the best.
Yeah.
Jimmy Burrows is standing there with an eye for comedy, that's.
You know.
It's incredible in how they're putting this all together and the writers and the thing.
And you're like, I can't believe this.
And it feels like... And I love these people.
And that's really important at this point in my life.
Yes, yes.
That we're...
As Marty says, it's about the hang.
You know, they're an example on like when I did Only Murders in the building.
They set the tone.
Like you feel good about going to work and having fun and doing good work.
Those are all people that the minute it starts to get unpleasant, they're all going to walk.
And you're in that category, too.
There's no reason at this point for unpleasantness.
I mean, that's why I adore doing this.
It's not a volume business.
We're not cranking out.
I'm not talking to three people a night, five nights a week, 40 nights a year.
This is people that I love, that I really want to talk to and have a real conversation with and get to know a little better.
And if this started to turn into...
Oh, God, I don't want to.
No, you kind of have to because they're moving.
Okay.
Well, they're being real difficult.
All right.
No, there's no reason anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you get in this format, you're getting something else.
Yes.
People are more relaxed.
This is nice.
This is a real, much more real conversation than, you know, when you're playing to an audience.
Yes.
You know.
I want to wrap this up because I have to.
And we've gone on much longer than we normally do, which is always an indication that I'm having the time of my life.
And I have one wish for you is that I when I brought up a little while ago in the interview are you able to own sort of what you've achieved?
You said, well, I've been very lucky.
And I say, yes, that's all true.
And that's the great perspective to have.
But you're also a crazily talented person who has integrity, and You're a very sensitive person and you have made this happen.
And I just want to leave that little nugget with you and hope that you can hang onto it and then go hate yourself five minutes from now.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Well, will you be my friend?
No.
No.
Just no.
I don't see it.
I really don't see an upside.
I don't see an upside.
I know.
I thought I was pushing it.
No, no.
I was just going by the title of the podcast.
No, it's a fucking gimmick.
God bless you and thank you.
Bless you.
Thank you so much.
Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian, and Matt Gourley.
Produced by me, Matt Gourley.
Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao.
Theme song by The White Stripes.
Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
Take it away, Jimmy.
Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair.
And our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns.
Additional production support by Mars Melnick.
Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Brit Kahn.
You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode.
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