Hey, Crime Junkies, it's Brit.
And have you heard?
The wait is over and tickets are now officially on sale for our 2025 Crime Junkie tour.
So make sure you head to our show notes and grab tickets to a show near you.
Maybe one of the shows is Fairfax, Virginia?
That's our next stop today.
Now, technically, a majority of the story took place in Washington, D .C.
But, as you may remember, investigators found their biggest lead along the river in Fairfax.
So let's go back specifically to 2021, when we first told you this story.
Hi, Crime Junkies, I'm your host, Ashley Flowers.
And I'm Brit. And the story I have for you today takes us right to the heart of the nation's capital.
People come to Washington, D .C.
from all over the country to look for opportunity to advance their careers and to get a taste of shaping the future.
One woman came to D .C.
to take her place in the grand scheme of American politics.
And while she found success, she also learned that the city has a dark side and the darkness may have cost her her life.
This is the story of Joyce Chang.
On the night of January 9th, 1999, a man named Roger Chang is at home in Washington, D .C.
in the apartment he shares with his older sister, Joyce.
They're both politically active and work in government.
Roger's done work for like Bill Clinton's campaign and Joyce interned with a congressman from their home state of California before she took her current job with the Immigration and Naturalization Service.
So D .C. is really like the perfect place for them to call home.
Since it's Saturday night, Joyce is out with one of her friends from work and she told Roger they're going to have dinner.
They're going to go see a movie.
And as the night wears on and Joyce doesn't come home, Roger doesn't think too much of it.
He knows that she's been battling a cold since New Year's.
So in his mind, it's totally possible that she decided to just like crash over at her friend's house instead of trekking all the way home in that cold, crappy weather that night.
And honestly, besides she's 28 years old.
She doesn't need her baby brother's permission to switch up her plans if that's what she decided to do.
Joyce isn't back by the next morning, but it's not until Monday that Roger really starts to worry because that's when he learns that Joyce was a no call, no show to work that day.
According to an article in the Capitol newspaper, Joyce is a staff attorney at the INS and no one knows better than Roger how hard she has worked to get where she is.
He knows there is no way she jeopardized her career by just ghosting on her workplace like this.
She's not answering her calls.
She's not answering her emails.
And there's nothing around their apartment to suggest that she's even been there at all since Saturday.
Nothing's been moved.
None of the food in the fridge has been eaten.
Like everything is as Roger left it, but Roger doesn't report his sister missing.
Why not? Well, as Roger himself says during an interview he gave to Bill O 'Reilly, he really wants to wait and give her one last chance to reach out.
Finally, on Tuesday, January 12, Roger starts calling around to her co -workers and learns that none of them have heard from her in the past three days either.
So it's not just him.
And right then, Roger knows what he has to do.
He calls the FBI and the local police and reports his sister missing.
Wait, why does he go straight to the FBI?
He's actually following protocol because Joyce isn't a civilian.
Remember, she's a government employee.
So according to WUSA Eyewitness News, Joyce's job with the INS makes her a federal officer.
So that coupled with the possibility of foul play in her case means the FBI is involved right from the jump.
Okay, that totally makes sense.
As they start the investigation, one of the very first things law enforcement tries to do is piece together a timeline of Joyce's movements that Saturday.
They learn from her friends that she'd been socially active all day, meeting one friend for coffee in the afternoon before heading downtown to meet her other friend slash co -worker for dinner and a movie.
They learn that she was wearing a thigh length green jacket with a hood over a black turtleneck, light washed jeans, and a red paisley scarf.
Now, that friend, the one that she had dinner and saw the movie with, tells police that she'd given Joyce a ride back to DuPont Circle where her apartment was.
And if you've never driven in D .C., it's like a lot of older cities that are kind of tangled with one -ways and side streets where sometimes it's just faster to walk someplace than it is to try and drive there.
So when Joyce said that she wanted to stop off to pick up a cup of tea and the easiest thing for both of them to do is just like drop Joyce off and then have her walk, like they did that.
So Joyce got out of her friend's car at about 8 .30 that night at the corner of Connecticut and R Street Northwest, right across the street from a Starbucks.
As far as her friend knew, Joyce didn't have any other plans that night.
And she had no reason to think that Joyce did anything else than go to Starbucks, get her tea and then safely walk the three blocks back to her apartment.
So does a Starbucks have any security footage of Joyce in the store?
Not as far as we know.
According to WJLA News, though, the FBI does interview all of the employees who were working that night, and none of them remember seeing a woman matching Joyce's description.
But remember, I mean, this is a busy location that sees a ton of customers.
So the baristas memories aren't super reliable because they just see so many people coming and going every day.
Right. And I mean, customers are really only going to stick out if there's something really distinctive about them.
And right. I mean, I would also guess that they sell more than just one tea a night.
So even if they did say, yeah, I sold a tea tonight, it could be one of 100 like it doesn't really tell them much.
Yeah, it's funny. I actually thought about that specifically.
Obviously, Starbucks is like known for their coffee.
And I was like, oh, I wonder if do they have a tea on their register.
But to your point, I'm sure they had more than one tea like on their receipts.
I don't know. Well, on top of that, like it's also evening.
So maybe you want something like more chill, like a tea instead of a coffee or something is where my mind goes.
Right. And I mean, the one thing I will say is like eight thirties, a short time frame.
But even if they found proof that, OK, someone bought a tea right around the time she got dropped off, that doesn't mean that it was her that bought the tea.
Right. Like actually doesn't get them anywhere.
And she could have gone in expecting to get a tea and gotten something else.
Like we have no idea what she even ordered.
So as the police and FBI keep combing through Joyce's movements that night, they discover that she left her pager at home.
And interestingly, Joyce got one page which police are able to actually track back to a payphone at a hotel near the Dulles International Airport.
But they're unable to narrow it down any more than that.
So the pager proves to be a dead end.
At some point over the next couple of days, the FBI questions one of Joyce's ex boyfriends.
How reason of an ex?
I literally have no details about this person.
All we know comes from the W USA Eyewitness News report saying he was questioned.
He whoever he is, but that he wasn't detained or anything like the end.
So just like ticking a box.
You're right. Now because they're getting nowhere, the FBI puts up a $20 ,000 reward for information leading to her whereabouts.
They also get their first leave when they learn that Joyce's wallet with her I .N .S .I .D.
and expired credit card inside turned up just a day after she vanished.
According to NBC News 4, a female jogger found Joyce's wallet on January 10th in Anacostia Park.
The jogger turned the wallet over to the park police, thinking like whoever dropped it would eventually realize like, oh, crap, my stuff's missing and come looking for it.
But neither she nor the park police had any reason to suspect that this wallet belonged to a missing person.
So the officers didn't take any of the joggers information or ask any follow up questions at the time.
Is this park on Joyce's way home?
Like, does it make sense for her to have dropped it there?
No, that's the thing.
It's not. And even if it was, Joyce going there that night just doesn't make any sense.
Like Joyce, remember she had a cold.
She wasn't feeling super great to begin with.
It was already dark outside.
So going into a park, especially this park, it's like huge.
It would not be safe for a woman on their own.
And not to mention, this park is at least a 20 minute drive away from DuPont Circle, where we know she was dropped off right near.
It's not even within walking distance.
There is no reason for Joyce to have gone anywhere near there that night.
So at this point, police are brimming with questions.
But the contents of Joyce's wallet only add more to the mix.
Once law enforcement does get word about Joyce's wallet and they start going through the contents, they notice something odd.
Joyce's debit card is missing.
But when they check her accounts for activity, her missing debit card isn't being used, hasn't been used since she was last seen.
So police put out a public call for the jogger who found the wallet to get in touch so they can get some more detailed information.
Of course, they're not just like waiting around while they're waiting for her to get in touch.
So police go out to the park ready to search all twelve hundred acres apart grounds and make inquiries with the naval base right down the river if they have to.
But fortunately, this jogger does reach out.
And once she does, police are able to use what she tells them and they get their first big break.
The jogger tells law enforcement that actually she hadn't found Joyce's wallet in Anacostia Park.
So then where did she find it?
According to another NBC News 4 broadcast, she clarifies that she found it near the park, on the banks of the Anacostia River, not the park itself.
Armed with this new information, law enforcement brings out dive teams, radar boats and cadaver dogs to focus on this particular area of the river.
On January 21st, 1999, 12 days after Joyce was last seen is when they finally hit on something, but it's not in the water.
According to the Capitol newspaper piece I mentioned earlier, Joyce's green jacket is found in a traffic circle near a service entrance to the Anacostia Naval Station near where her ID was actually found.
They also find her Safeway card, her house keys, her Blockbuster card and her gloves.
And that's not all they find because it turns out there is something in the water after all, a body.
But it's clear right away that the body belongs to a man.
So obviously it's not Joyce.
With that body on its way to the DC Medical Examiner and all of Joyce's things sent off for analysis, law enforcement resumes their search throughout the area.
They go back to the Anacostia Park area to scan the region with helicopters and volunteers, braving the bitter cold in their efforts to find Joyce.
Police call off the river search around noon the next day after their efforts don't turn up anything else.
The FBI is still hopeful that they'll be able to pull something like a fingerprint or some fibers off of Joyce's thing, something, anything, to give their investigation a direction to go in.
In addition, they're hoping some national TV coverage from America's most wanted will help the investigation.
So they work with that TV team to get some coverage for the case.
Once they get their lab results back a couple of weeks later, it looks promising.
According to another report from NBC News 4, the FBI manages to pull some clues that they believe could lead them to DNA samples.
The FBI is playing coy and trying really hard not to show their hand to the media.
But the reporters in this news piece basically tell the FBI like, we already know what it is, like, don't bother dancing around it because their sources had told them that they got hairs off of Joyce's stuff.
So law enforcement collects some samples of Joyce's hair for comparison against what they've pulled from Joyce's belongings.
Analysis shows that the hairs found on her stuff belonged to two different people, one white person and one black person.
Now, since Joyce is Taiwanese -American, those hairs can't belong to her.
Around the one month mark of Joyce's disappearance, the FBI makes a statement where they tell everyone they don't believe that she left the area of her own free will, that she was taken by a stranger or even by someone she knew.
So between that statement and, you know, finding these hairs on her things, then they know something went really wrong here.
Right. And they know that they need to find Joyce and they need to find her now.
But they don't have any leads on suspects, right?
No, no. The FBI says they're not ruling out any potential suspects, including Joyce's roommate and little brother, Roger Chang.
So we see in missing persons cases how sometimes a member of the victim's family can really become like a main spokesperson.
And for the Chang family, that's totally been Roger.
Since day one, he's been constantly giving interviews to any outlet that will listen, talking to law enforcement, hanging up flyers, holding vigils, doing all of the things a concerned family member would do.
But while Roger's public image is that of a terrified brother who just wants his sister to come home, in private, the FBI has some doubts about him, mostly because he is the one who waited till Tuesday to report Joyce missing, even though he knew better than anyone how unusual it was for her to just
ghost everyone like she did.
According to Ellen Gaehrman's reporting for the Baltimore Sun, around this time, the FBI collects carpet samples from the sibling's apartment and asks Roger if he'd be willing to take a polygraph, which he does.
And? And the results come back inconclusive.
When asked about it, Roger chalks the results up to anxiety or law enforcement trying to mess with him, which, I don't know, both could be possible.
Everyone knows how we feel about polygraphs.
Right. Right. As this Baltimore Sun piece goes on to say, though, even though Roger's definitely raising a few eyebrows, he is never actively pursued as a suspect.
And then at the start of spring, a grisly discovery changes everything.
And around 6 30 p .m.
on the evening of March 31st, 1999, a woman named Leslie Brown is having a peaceful night at her home in Fairfax County, Virginia, when suddenly she hears this commotion coming from outside.
She can't quite make out the words, but the tone is more than enough to hammer home that something is very, very wrong.
Leslie rushes outside and she finds a canoeist there on the Potomac River gesturing wildly and yelling that they found a body washed up on shore and they're begging for someone to call for help.
Leslie runs back inside and dials 911 immediately.
According to a piece in the Los Angeles Times, when the police arrive at the scene, they find a woman's body laying face down on a rocky part of the shoreline, still wearing blue jeans and a black turtleneck.
Now, the body's pretty badly decomposed, way beyond any hope for a visual identification, but it doesn't take long for police to start forming a theory about who their Jane Doe might be, because you see, the clothes she's wearing match their description of Joyce Chang to a T.
And officers also note that their unidentified woman matches Joyce's height and weight.
So is this close to where Joyce's stuff was found?
Not really. It's actually over eight miles downriver.
It's south of where Anacostia River flows into the Potomac.
The body is taken back to the medical examiner's office.
They're in Virginia for autopsy.
And their tentative I .D.
gets validated even more when they look inside the socks that are still on this victim and find something surprising.
Right there, tucked away in one of the socks is Joyce's missing debit card.
To do a formal DNA comparison and confirm what they're now, like, 99 % sure of, law enforcement collects some blood from Roger Chang while also comparing Joyce's dental records with their Jane Doe.
Now, all of this is pretty standard, nothing out of the ordinary, right?
But once the results from the autopsy comes back, things start to get weird.
According to an article in the Leaf Chronicle, her cause of death is inconclusive, with no marks on her skeleton to indicate a gunshot wound or a stabbing or anything like that.
Apparently, they can't even tell that.
It's inconclusive. I know there's this common view that autopsies always hold the answers about how someone died.
And I mean, it's true that more often than not, they do.
And more often than not, law enforcement learns something from the autopsy, even if it's not like a black and white, you know, this is how it was done and whatever.
There's still information like information is information.
And yet here there's nothing.
I mean, I'm gonna be honest, I didn't even think this was possible.
I thought dental records were a sure thing.
I did, too. But I mean, there's a first time for everything, I guess.
So at this point, all police can do is wait for the DNA test results to come back, hopefully with that conclusive identification.
Now, that takes a couple of weeks, but ultimately it is confirmed.
Their Jane Doe is Joyce Chang.
But even now they still have almost nothing to go on.
By July of 1999, six months after Joyce first went missing, investigators are grasping at straws.
Like they look into some sketchy and honestly borderline racist theories about Joyce's financial habits.
They also look into the possibility that she was abducted by a sex trafficking ring.
And police also follow up on another theory that's got a little more substance to it.
So it turns out that one Starbucks employee does come forward a little bit later and tell police like back in January that, you know what?
They did think they saw Joyce in the shop on the night she disappeared.
According to Eddie Dean's reporting for the Washington City Paper, though, that's not all he saw.
He saw Joyce get her tea and then spent over an hour there at the Starbucks talking to a woman with blonde hair.
Wait, so who's this blonde lady?
And what were they talking about for so long?
Well, this is what's so weird about all of this.
According to that same Washington City Paper piece, police have a composite sketch of her all made up, ready to go.
They just haven't released it to the public yet for whatever reason.
Oh, cool. Like I will never understand going through all the work of building composite sketch and then just sticking it in a folder in the back of a box never to be released.
Which it seems like it's stayed there and has never been released to this day.
At least nothing in my research that I could find indicates that they ever put this out there like looking for this woman to come forward or someone who knows her.
So this loose end kind of just stays dangling out there in this case.
Maybe it's nothing, but just like with whoever paged Joyce on the night she disappeared, we don't know.
Once investigators run out of straws to grasp, Joyce's case turns cold.
It gets warm for a hot second in February of 2000 when authorities tell the media that they're basically all but certain Joyce was the victim of foul play.
But mostly it stays at a standstill for almost two years until May 1st of 2001 when another young woman goes missing in Washington, D .C., a woman named Chandra Levy.
As Helen Kennedy reported for the New York Daily News, there are some pretty striking similarities between Chandra and Joyce.
Both women were originally from California.
Both were congressional interns.
Both lived in DuPont Circle and went missing just blocks from each other.
They even looked alike.
They were both five foot three inches tall, both weighed around 100 pounds.
Both had brown eyes and shoulder length dark hair.
But there's one major difference between them.
When Chandra goes missing, her case explodes across the headlines of every major news outlet in America and stays there for months.
I mean, years even, but they recently within the last couple of years did a documentary on this.
And if you're not familiar with her story or want a refresher, we actually covered that case back in 2018.
So you can be sure to go listen and just think about the differences in how these women's stories are handled.
When Joyce went missing, she got like some blips on the local evening news and the occasional write up.
But that's it. So is there any chance that Chandra's disappearance is connected to Joyce, though?
According to CNN, police don't think so, at least at the time.
But they acknowledge the similarities, not even just between Joyce and Chandra, though.
They acknowledge the similarities between both of them and yet another woman who was murdered in Washington, D .C., the summer before.
On the night of August 1st, 1998, a little over five months before Joyce first went missing, a man heard a woman screaming near Canal Road, Northwest.
He stopped everything he was doing.
And with that scream still ringing in his ears, he called back to the mystery woman, asking her if she was OK, if she needed help.
And heart pounding, he waited for a response, but the woman never responded.
And eventually the man assumed she was fine and she didn't need help.
But the very next day, police find a woman's body in the woods right near the road where he heard those screams.
She was later identified as 28 year old Christine Mirzaian.
The autopsy found that she had been bludgeoned to death with a rock and that she was sexually assaulted before she died.
As June Kew Woo reported for The Washington Post, Christine was originally from California, just like Joyce and Chandra.
She had dark hair and she'd moved to D .C.
for a fellowship at the National Research Council.
So she too had experience working in government.
While police don't believe Christine's case is connected to Joyce or Chandra, Joyce's friends and colleagues don't agree.
They take to the media to argue.
But unfortunately, it makes no difference.
What's absolutely infuriating to me, though, is that at the time of her death, Christine's case got even less coverage than Joyce's.
There may be clips in local broadcast archives we just don't have access to.
But the earliest newspaper coverage I could find doesn't come out until July of 2001, almost three years after Christine's murder.
It's as if this poor woman's case went totally under the radar until Chandra Levy put D .C.
crime under a microscope.
For years, questions swirl around all three cases.
But then an FBI theory becomes public, one that Joyce's family just can't accept.
Law enforcement believes Joyce might have died by suicide.
Wait, but I thought they said that foul play was involved.
They did. That was their thought.
But police could never prove it since they don't know how Joyce died.
And according to Stephen Braun's piece for the Los Angeles Times, the possibility of suicide has been on their radar for a long time, in no small part due to some difficulties she was having at work.
As the same piece goes on to say, Joyce was actually under an internal investigation at the INS and was supposed to have a formal interview with the agency during the week.
After she first went missing.
Now, the FBI doesn't make public the reason behind the investigation.
But between the stress from this probe going on for who knows how long and this upcoming interview, the FBI wonders if the stress was just too much for Joyce to handle.
Adding to their suspicion, Joyce's jacket was found near a bridge that actually has a reputation for suicide attempts.
Okay, but without knowing how she died, there's no way to prove any of this.
No, totally. Joyce's friends and family are adamant that she wouldn't take her own life.
She wasn't showing any signs of mental illness.
Her sunny disposition was intact, they say, when she went missing and she didn't leave a note, which is a huge misconception as a hallmark for death by suicide.
I went down a Google rabbit hole on a previous case and I read an article on health talk dot org about how only like 25 to 30 % of people who died by suicide leave notes.
Yeah, so I mean, that's not necessarily proof that their theory is 100 % wrong.
But her brother, Roger says, like, listen, sure, she was stressed about the interview, but he tells police it certainly wouldn't be enough to make Joyce do something so extreme.
So what does he think happened?
Well, Roger and the rest of the Chang family believe Joyce was murdered.
They point to incidents Joyce told them about before she died, like a peeping Tom and a subway creep following her.
After Joyce died, Roger says that he found some weird graffiti out in the alley behind the Starbucks where Joyce was headed on the night she vanished.
And it's honestly creepy here, but I want you to read it.
It says, quote, Good day, JC.
May I never miss the thrill of being near you, end quote.
And that weird? It's super weird.
My first thought is it seems kind of hoaxy, but it also reminds me of the Cynthia Jane Anderson story that we did.
Yes, where there was like graffiti, like across the street from her office and that was super creepy.
Yeah, she like took it down once and then they like put it back up.
The thing I don't know about this is exactly when it was found.
Like was it was it already there?
Was it before? Was it after?
I don't have a lot of information around that, but it is bizarre and it's bizarre that this is like not the first time we've seen this.
Yeah, for sure. According to the Baltimore Sun, the Chang's look at all of these things as evidence that Joyce was murdered and they feel like law enforcement isn't doing enough to look into all of this stuff as potential leads.
In fact, Roger Chang actually files a formal complaint against the D .C.
Metropolitan Police for mishandling Joyce's case.
And honestly, there's a pretty big disconnect in how the different branches of law enforcement involved in the investigation handle their public comments.
Just to give you an example, like within the span of a couple of weeks, they flip flop between suicide and homicide, kind of depending on who's talking to the media.
So it doesn't even feel like everyone is even aligned.
And to make matters even more confusing, John Walsh gets involved.
What? Yeah, not just to do the America's Most Wanted special.
According to Fox Five News, John's convinced that Joyce and Chandra were victims of a serial killer.
And he takes that theory to any outlet that will listen to him, even after police discount the theory over the summer of 2001.
So it's just him saying I did my own independent investigation as John Walsh.
As John Walsh. Yeah.
And this is what I've come to.
That's literally all he has, right?
It's strange. Yeah.
Okay, cool. Continue.
By the end of the summer, with Chandra's case still dominating the headlines, attention on Joyce's case fades.
Law enforcement is right back at the same standstill that they were before.
And listen, little pieces pop up in the media over the years.
John Walsh stays adamant about the serial killer theory.
Roger keeps giving interviews.
He actually, in a strange twist, kind of winds up as a producer on America's Most Wanted.
I did not see something like that coming at all.
Me neither. And it's not like it's like a flash in the pan kind of gig either, like he's.
He's there for a while.
A legit jotter, yeah.
Anyway, more than 10 years go by with no news and no movement until January 25th, 2011, just over 12 years to the day after Joyce first vanished.
As Paul Wagner reported for Fox 5 News, police have new evidence finally shining a light on what might have happened to Joyce that night.
Apparently, they now believe that she was abducted from Dupont Circle by three suspects and taken down to the banks of the Anacostia River, where these three suspects planned to rob her.
But didn't you say that the river is pretty far away from Dupont Circle?
Yeah. I guess to me it seems like a really inconvenient way to rob somebody.
No, listen, I agree.
I actually was like just looking at Google Maps and it doesn't make any sense to me as like a good robbery plan.
But like, hey, I'm not a criminal.
What do I know? According to the same article, law enforcement believes that Joyce could have been pushed into the river or maybe she could have slipped and fell into the freezing river as she tried to escape her attackers.
And, you know, she basically got caught up.
She wasn't able to pull herself out of the river.
If I'm like picturing how this went down, like maybe that's how her coat ended up.
Maybe they tried to grab her.
I don't I don't know.
Like if they tried to grab her coat, she like kind of finagled her way out of it and ran and tripped and fell in the river or something.
Maybe I don't know.
According to a Fox News broadcast, police have been quietly working for about a year to nail down their suspects.
And over the rest of the winter and into the spring of 2011, law enforcement reveals more and more information about these suspects.
One of them, a guy named Steve Allen, is already in prison serving a life sentence for similar crimes.
And another guy, Neil Joaquin, is thought to be out of the United States in Guyana, where there's no extradition treaty.
OK, but what about the third one?
Well, WJLA News reported that there's not enough evidence to prosecute the third person.
Police believe Steve and Neil worked as a pair to abduct unsuspecting people and take them to more secluded locations to rob them.
According to more of Paul Wagner's reporting for Fox 5 News, Steve and Neil were arrested in 1999.
This was like three months after Joyce's disappearance for abducting another woman from a busy part of D .C., not far from DuPont Circle.
And driving her a few miles away to rob her.
But then they released her.
And no one in law enforcement was like, hey, this kind of sounds familiar.
Right. To me, it's so weird that they're making this connection, what, 12 years later and not like three months right after when this happened.
But apparently, no, like it took some 10 years and some prison rumors to get Steve and Neil on police's radar for Joyce's death.
On May 13, 2011, this is 12 years, four months and four days after Joyce Chang vanished from DuPont Circle.
Police officially rule her death a homicide, which is at least some of the news that the Chang family has been waiting for.
Well, not quite, because on one hand, there's definitely this vindication of what they've known in their hearts all along that Joyce was murdered.
But this very same day, police also announce that Joyce's case is going to be closed and they're not going to be pressing any charges against Steve or Neil.
Why not? As law enforcement explains at a press conference that same day, basically, they're competent that they've got enough evidence to get arrest warrants, but not enough to grab a slam dunk conviction.
So that's it. Like, I wish I had a more satisfying resolution for you, but I don't.
I mean, I get what they're saying because you don't want to put the case in a situation where you're up against double jeopardy and you lose and you can't try them again.
And then the case is just there.
But they're they're not keeping it open.
They're saying they're closing it.
And it's like, what I don't get is that they're basically saying we're never going to do anything.
So if you're never going to do anything, why not at least try?
Yeah. Like, and then if you lose, you lose.
But like, try. Or like you said, like, just don't close it and try later.
All you have to do is just not close it.
Yeah. And if you're if you're going to say, hey, well, we're not going to keep it active because we don't think we'll ever find anything more.
There's never going to be more physical evidence.
We've already had people come forward.
I go back to if you're never going to have more and you know that and you know that enough to close it, shoot your shot.
Exactly. And again, like just keep it open.
How many cases have we talked about where the case stays open and it sits in the back of a filing cabinet for God knows how long with just an unsolved mysteries.
Tape in the box or whatever.
And like eventually something happens and like no one has touched it for 20 years, but something happens and you have something finally.
Why not just keep it open?
Just keep it open. That's like I I could just say keep it open for the next 20 minutes, but that wouldn't be very entertaining.
Well, Roger Chang has self published a book about his experiences around Joyce's death called My Peace I Offer You.
Over 22 years have passed since Joyce's death.
And while her case is still officially closed, I have to wonder, has justice been done?
Time helps heal. But does the desire for closure ever really go away, not just for Roger and Joyce's family, but for her friends and her colleagues and everyone who loved her?
Listen, I don't have the answers.
I mean, we do, right?
I mean, I think we do.
Like, keep it open.
Shoot your shot. But maybe there's stuff we don't know.
I don't think anyone knows this completely 100 percent inside and out.
And that's part of why I wanted to tell you Joyce's story, to remind all of us that even when the ending isn't as neat and tidy as we'd like, there is still a human at the heart of it all.
And that person's life mattered.
Joyce's life mattered.
You can find all of the source material for this episode on our website, crimejunkypodcast .com.
And be sure to follow us on Instagram at Crime Junkie Podcast.
We'll be back next week with a brand new episode.
Crime Junkie is an audio Chuck production.
So what do you think, Chuck?
Do you approve?
