Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable. You're listening to Roundtable with myself, Ha Young.
I'm joined by Yushan and Steve Hatherly in the studio.
Coming up, ever listened to the Roundtable show while driving or cooking?
That's multitasking in action.
While these combos can work out fine, other multitasking efforts such as doing homework while tuning in our show might not go so smoothly.
Studies show that multitasking might not be so great for your brain health.
So what is the deal? And gone are the days when TV was dominated by drama series stretching beyond 40 episodes.
Now we're seeing the rise of many series.
Mercifully stopping at 10 episodes or less, both in China and on international streaming platforms, is this proof that less is indeed more.
Our podcast listeners can find us at Roundtable China on Apple Podcasts.
And you can always reach us via email roundtablepodcastatqq.com.
Now, right is the time. Let's shift gears to a psychological topic that's really intriguing.
When we talk about multitasking, we're referring to a habit.
Many of us have adopted juggling two or more tasks simultaneously.
While it might seem like an efficient way to accomplish more, research suggests that our brains aren't as adept to multitasking as we might believe.
So is multitasking really a productivity booster?
Or is it actually a productivity killer?
What actually is going on in our brains when we attempt to multitask?
That's a very important question to be honest.
We need to figure out how our brain functions as a start to better understand.
I wish I knew how my brain functioned.
I'd have the answers to a lot of questions, I think.
Regarding the multitasking topic that we're mentioning just now, how our brain react to it during multitasking is first to goal shift, which refers to deciding to do one thing instead of another.
And second, rule activation, which means that we're changing from the rules for the previous task to that for the new one.
So this is the two-step our brain is processing when facing multitasking.
I read about this on a 2020 through paper through a website called Very Well Mind.
Apparently, our brain determines on how, when, and in what order certain tasks are performed.
So when networks in the brain interact to guide our behaviors, like just setting up a goal or identifying the information, etc., a brain is performing based on its natural cognitive function.
Where else multitasking can mess with that function and actually impair the cognitive ability?
That's why a lot of people believe and also science proves that multitasking is actually not so good for productivity.
Some people think that multitasking isn't even a real thing.
Dr. Kevin Mador, he's an American neuropsychologist, and he suggests that if we think we're multitasking, we're probably just switching quickly from task to task.
All of those decisions that Yushan just mentioned that our brain goes through, okay, wait, I'm going to stop this one, okay, and then I'm going to start that one over there.
All of that happens within a tenth of a second, two tenths of a second.
It happens very, very quickly in our brains.
But what he suggests is that we're not multitasking at all.
We're simply stopping one activity and moving on to another.
This happens to me all the time.
I'll wash the dishes. You guys probably wash the dishes until they're finished, right?
Make sense. Yeah. Until the sink is empty.
I very rarely do because I'll get through about maybe 50 or 60% of the dishes, and then my brain goes, oh yeah, but you were supposed to do this too.
I'll stop washing the dishes.
I'll go do something else, and then I'll come back to wash the dishes later.
Is it effective? Is it efficient?
I don't know, but it's the way my brain works.
That is so interesting.
And in your household, everybody's happy, harmonious, not having disputes about it.
Yeah, especially when you're not living alone.
I hear about it all the time.
And it's interesting you bring up dishwashing because when we still do it manually, and let's face it, not a lot of Chinese households have a dishwasher, the machine, and then apparently a lot of our listeners are listening to our show, either when they're driving or cleaning dishes or maybe taking a shower.
And this is one of the beauty of podcasting and radio.
That is, it frees up your hands and you can do other stuff while listening to us or listening to classical music or whatever music to your liking.
And usually it's okay because I suppose the stakes are not that high.
And you can, I suppose, do things at the same time.
I mean, to me, that doesn't really sound like it's falling into the category of multitasking because while you're driving, while listening to Roundtable, for example, you're listening to Roundtable indication in the brain.
And actually, I believe it's what they call on autopilot.
It's not that you're trying to focus on each and every word I'm trying to pronounce right now, but rather you're just listening because it's something to listen to and make the driving more, say, fun.
But the majority of your attention, let's say, is still on the task of driving.
You're not stopping to drive just to listen to the radio, but rather you're focusing on the driving while listening.
Like stopping one thing in order to do another, but rather you're just trying to cope with doing one task while making it a bit more easy to do or more fun to do.
For people who do multitasking, and we'll ignore Dr.
Kevin Madore's thoughts on multitasking for the sake of this conversation, they say that people who do multitask, often they are effectively distracting themselves from the original assignment, which means that multitaskers are easily distracted by themselves, like me, when I'm trying to wash the dishes.
I'm distracting myself from that task when I'm thinking about doing another task, and this will take away from your productivity of washing the dishes, for example.
So, that's a question though, because what you just painted a picture, Steve, that sounds like, yeah, it disrupts or takes some discount off productivity.
But let's go back to the driving and the showering or washing dishes.
Don't shower and drive at the same time.
That's really dangerous.
Only when you're listening to Roundtable.
Okay, so not those, but those three examples are pretty tedious for some of us, and then it's a welcome distraction if you're multitasking, listening to your favorite show or a fun show like Roundtable, and then I suppose maybe that distraction is actually quite nice.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is called temptation bundling.
I could be very wrong about the title, but I know- That sounds fancy.
Well, what it is is when you combine two activities, one you enjoy and one you don't enjoy.
Let's say that you have- We're going to talk about TV miniseries coming up in a little while.
Let's say you have your favorite miniseries, right?
And you also have your treadmill.
Now, you really don't like the treadmill.
You hate it. But you know you got to do it for your health for at least 45 minutes.
So, what you do is you take an episode of your favorite miniseries, which is also 45 minutes, and you watch the episode of the miniseries while you're on the treadmill.
That's called temptation bundling, putting two things together.
Multi-tasking, doing a thing you don't like combined with a thing you do like to help you get through the dissatisfaction of doing the thing that you don't enjoy.
I mean, this one reckons with me personally so well because, well, not by combining things I don't like with things I like, but I just use some audio clips as a timer, to be honest.
Like, for example, when I wake up in the morning, I prefer to leave the house in 30 minutes than just pick a podcast episode that lasts for 30 minutes.
And when it's done, you know it's time, right?
So that you can wrap up and just go.
So, for me, that's just something to be reminded here.
Yeah, and it does make a lot of sense if you're on the treadmill or can't think of anything else actually, but it's a super tedious.
Vacuuming, something like that.
And repetitive action, but let's say if you're doing weights or some of the other gym stuff, which...
That requires attention, right?
Yeah, like you need to count, you know.
Okay, so like, let's say 30 is a set and you need to do four sets.
And then watching your miniseries at the same time kind of distracts you and you lose count quickly.
Sometimes the activities don't go together.
Sometimes it doesn't. Perfectly.
But there is a psychological explanation behind kind of all of this theory about multitasking.
Another theory is it slows you down.
Another theory is that it makes you prone to making mistakes.
And another theory is called the Zygarnik effect.
Now, you probably don't know that name.
Zygarnik comes from Bluma Zygarnik, who was a Soviet psychologist back in 1927.
And the Zygarnik effect suggests that people tend to focus on things that are not finished as opposed to things that are finished.
Here's the story of what happened there.
Dr. Zygarnik was sitting in a busy restaurant in Vienna.
Sounds lovely, doesn't it?
And she noticed that the servers had better memories of unpaid orders versus paid ones.
That means once the customers paid, the server in the restaurant struggled to remember the exact details of the order.
Why? Because, according to the Zygarnik effect, because our brains are wired to remember unfinished tasks better than completed ones, that leads to this problem.
Now, what's the point of all of that?
It's suggesting that if we make a list of things to do, okay, I need to do this, number one.
This is priority number one today.
I need to go to the bank, okay?
Then after that, I need to go to the dry cleaners.
Then I need to go to the grocery store.
Well, completing one task, then completing another task, then completing another task, will allow you to really focus on your following task, rather than leaving them partially completed, because your mind will still be occupied, because it's not done yet.
Yeah, on a feeling base that almost inspired an overwhelming feeling, what the Zygarnik theory concludes as the intrusive thought in your head.
So it's always messing with your head at the back of your mind.
When you're focusing, trying to focus on a new task, you're still remembering that, oh, that's not concluded.
I need to get back to that later.
So it creates this kind of like a cognitive burden on your mind, which reminds you over and over again that you need to come back.
That's why a lot of people remember their interrupted task better than once it's finished.
And that lingering feeling is actually not good for your brain, or for your mental state of mind.
Yeah, it just gives you more things to think about.
When it doesn't have to be that case.
And what if you have so much on your plate?
And a lot of us do. How to not be overwhelmed by it?
Should we start trying not to multitask?
Just give up on it? Or, I mean, should we adopt a different mindset in attacking so many things we need to do?
Let's give two examples.
Washing the dishes and listening to round table.
You can wash the dishes without too much focus or too much attention, right?
It's kind of a mindless task.
And also you can listen to a round table in the background in a passive listening type of sense.
In that case, multitasking is okay.
You can do it without damage.
But if you're talking about the example you gave before, trying to do your exercise in the gym, not just on the treadmill, but lifting heavy weights and then watching your favorite drama.
Well, both of those things require a large amount of attention.
So therefore, multitasking in that case would be detrimental.
So I think the key here, if we learn anything from this, is to identify within your list of tasks what takes a lot of focus, what takes a lot of energy, and then try not to add additional tasks to that main one if you know you really have to focus on that one.
And for many white collar workers who just receive random tasks all the time throughout their day, sounds familiar, right?
I would recommend it. A little snuck in, a little work complaint there in the midst of your delivery.
Okay, it was subtle until flagged by someone.
I know, but jokes aside, for me it's more helpful to at least draft or at least committing to a completion plan when you are in, found yourself in such a scenario, because when you are so aware of exactly what you're about to do, it's just better if you have a plan for it, right?
Yeah, for example, this is one of the pieces of advice that they give.
If you are a multitasker and you're having trouble with it, piece of advice number one, follow the 20-minute rule.
And what that means is that you'll follow one task, you'll do one task for 20 minutes without doing anything else.
If you're sitting at your desk working on an assignment, work on that assignment for 20 minutes before you check your emails, before you respond to a text message.
That's one piece of advice.
The other piece of advice is even a little more specific.
If you do have to check your emails throughout your workday, which many people do, then have a time of day that you'll do it.
Meaning, after lunch, 1pm, that is every day, check your email time.
And organizing your tasks like that can help you out.
Yeah, and for me, I would just suggest that try to find somewhere quiet, you know.
When you see that things are flying at you, it's just wiser if you just escape, quote unquote, they escape to somewhere quiet.
And just try to focus on what's at hand.
Like Thailand. Yeah, my mind is floating somewhere else.
We're not talking about just a nomad.
Yeah. Hey, I get it. In big Chinese cities, we're all about the hustle culture, trying to do a million things at once.
And maybe it's time to slow down and ask ourselves, is rushing in this case, multi-tasking really making us better?
Instead of spreading ourselves thin, let's focus on doing a few things really well.
Quality over quantity, right?
It's about taking the time to learn and grow and not just checking boxes.
Coming up, remember when TV dramas dragged on for 40 episodes?
Now, short and sweet mini-series are the new trend.
What's driving their popularity?
Stay tuned. Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
It's the hour of Roundtable with myself, He Young.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yuchen in the studio.
Lately, TV series are getting shorter, both at home and abroad.
Some have up to 10 episodes, while others might have as few as four.
These are known as mini-series or limited series in North America, where they're typically running longer than a feature film, but have fewer than 20 episodes.
Mini-series have quickly become the new favorite in China's TV market, so is making shows more mini the latest craze?
Yuchen, could you give us a recap on the rise of mini-series as it seems everywhere?
I mean, in recent years, the number of domestic mini-series has also been gradually increasing, as data shows that in the first half of 2024, the proportion of mini-series has significantly increased with those under 12 episodes, accounting for over 10%.
This indicates that mini-series as a new favorite in the film and television industry are really beginning to grow, at least here in China.
I was just having this big misunderstanding before coming up to show that mini-series, in its definition, is not really referring to the length of the episode, not necessarily, but rather on the number of episodes in each season.
Exactly. Limited series is the preferred title in America and Canada.
That's the one that I've heard the most, and I really, really enjoy them compared to series that will have 25 episodes or 40, 6 episodes or whatever.
And there's a reason for that.
The writers, when they start a limited series, they know the issues that will come up in the drama.
I mean, the drama within the drama itself.
They're aware of what that is.
They already know. They know the beginning.
They know the middle. They know where they're going to go with the ending.
They can effectively tell a complete story.
If you look at Game of Thrones, for example, Game of Thrones was probably the hottest TV show in the world for a period of time.
It ran for eight seasons.
And part of the problem was that the writers didn't know where the show was going to go, and then they ended up wrapping it up very, very quickly.
So my point is, it's better for writers because they can be more concise.
They can deliver the story in a more timely manner.
They can pump up the drama level as well.
And it just makes, in my opinion, for a better viewing experience.
Yeah. And I suppose when you've got a limited number of episodes and then somehow resources are just more concentrated and you're kind of like expecting premium TV, it's so much better than a lot of the times the 40 episodes or even more episode shows.
And for the longer traditional Chinese TV dramas, it feels like they're almost like a watered-down version.
Sometimes when you watch those things, it's like, yeah, that's probably good for multitasking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's like, oh, you can finish the story, condense it with maybe 20 episodes.
Instead, it's running on for 40.
Yeah, exactly. It's really interesting that you mentioned Chinese TV dramas because in fact, Chinese TV series initially started in the form of mini series.
Though back then, the concept of mini series didn't actually exist at all.
Because well, back in the 1980s and 1990s, works like 低盈十八年, which literally translates to 18 years in the enemy's camp.
So we can assume it's a war type kind of theme.
It only counts for nine episodes and other works include 浮车的農村, or 卫城, has only 10 episodes.
So at the beginning of the development of the Chinese TV industry, we only make, say, quote unquote, mini series.
And nowadays it's getting really popular worldwide.
And that popularity can be traced back to the 1990s with the BBC launching its first season of the TV series House of Cars.
Yeah, some of us might have.
Yeah, that was originally a British production.
Sherlock. Yeah. That's another example that came from the BBC, right?
That was a really popular one.
Yeah, and Downton Abbey, Black Mirror, these really, wow, really renowned cultural exports that around the world we know.
Yeah, and the episode length, we should talk about that as well.
I think people enjoy it because it's longer than your typical television drama, right?
Where you might get 30 minutes, for example, 35, 40 minutes, for example.
Oftentimes these days, one episode is about 55 to 60 minutes or even sometimes a little bit more.
And it gives you that cinematic feel, doesn't it?
It makes you kind of feel like you're watching a half of a movie.
And then the other advantage is you can binge because a lot of the streaming platforms will put all of the episodes there at the same time.
I mean, I remember comparing mini series like Sherlock with other just random TV series such as Two Broken Girls or Friends.
You know, those are in a setting that gives you the idea and it doesn't hide that idea from its viewers.
That it's in a setting, it's in a fixed setting where the story happens.
Yes, it comes. Right. But for, like Steve mentioned, for mini series, it gives you that cinematic experience that the shooting technique and also the directing technique, the narration of the whole plot is so tightened up in a way that it delivers the story more efficiently, but also it gives you such beauty of almost like aesthetic view of enjoying the story.
What about some of the episode lengths for the Chinese shows?
Is it basically around that 45 minute to one hour length that we're talking about?
Similar to the ones in the West?
It's interesting because traditionally, what did you call that?
Anyway, just traditional TV, when back in the day we rush home for a specific time of viewing and you usually can watch two episodes aired on television back to back, of course, with commercial breaks.
Back then, the length of every episode is fixed because you know that the commercial break is like five minutes and then, the TV station will want to make sure to make good money out of that.
And then, nowadays, because so many of these productions, they exist for the online platforms, the streaming platforms, initially anyway, so therefore the length of every episode doesn't really matter.
And then the creators have the freedom to go as long as they want really.
So the length of the episode is decided by the content of the episode as opposed to rules put in place by television stations.
Yeah, so these are one of the variations brought by streaming versus traditional TV.
And what explains or what are some of the other reasons that explain the rise of the growing popularity of miniseries?
Well, for me, it almost strikes like the movie company or the miniseries companies are trying to encourage people to finish it because it's more likely for people to continue on watching a very tightened plot and knowing that they're not going to spend just like an entire month trying to catch up with all the 40, 70 episodes of the whole season.
And miniseries has these characteristics of tending to not become overly lengthy as TV series.
So I would assume that's one big, well, at least for me, that's one big attraction of watching miniseries.
I like the creativity. It allows the writers as well.
There was a Netflix show that came out in 2023 called Kaleidoscope.
It was only eight episodes long, but the series was very unique.
The episode titles were colors.
And the unique thing about the show is you could watch it in any order that you wanted.
You could watch red first and then orange and then green.
And you could watch a different order if you wanted to, Yushan.
And you could watch a different one if you wanted to, He Young.
It made no difference at all because the story all told the same ending and it allowed the writers to be more creative and it was more fun for the audience as well.
That part was fun. The show, it was just okay in my opinion.
But anyway, it was very creative how they presented that to the audience.
Right. And what are some of the really amazing examples of miniseries in China that have grabbed our attention in recent years?
Well, I have to mention this one in Chinese is called Wodou Alo Tai.
Well, in English is to the wonder, I believe.
I mean, this one was filmed by a director that was previously a film director.
Now we see how closely connected the miniseries are with the film industry because the directors are also introducing their works in this new realm as well.
And under this director's lens is the natural scenery of al-tai region of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in China, which is in like far western area of China.
Just introduce the entire cultural essence of the Kazakh people, which are the local people that has a strong ethnic group cultural sentiment to it.
So for me, that was almost like looking at the view from in the angle of a movie.
So that's one example that I will raise.
Yes. And also the miniseries that you're referring to, Yuxian, is an adaptation from a now very popular book.
And the prose written by the author Li Jun has been transported really nicely onto the screen.
And I suppose a lot of the artistic innovation has been neatly interwoven with the literary original of this eight episode miniseries.
So something could recommend to you.
