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Hi, I'm Emily Thomas from the Global News Podcast and, as the Winter Olympics get underway in Italy, we thought you'd enjoy hearing our podcast More Than The Score from the BBC World Service.
It tells sports stories from beyond the score sheet and in this episode they're asking when will Africa win its first Winter Olympic medal?
You can listen to the whole episode right here.
I hope you enjoy it.
I'm Lee James and this is More Than The Score the multi-sport global podcast from the BBC World Service that tells stories from beyond the score sheet.
More than 3500 athletes from 93 countries will be competing for 195 medals at the Milan Cortina Winter Games.
It's been over six decades since an African nation made its debut, but when will the continent win its first Winter Olympic medal?
The African nations of Benin and Guinea-Bissau will make their historic debuts at the 2026 Games.
But with the established winter sport nations such as Norway, the USA, Canada and Germany looking to dominate the medal table once again, how hard is it for new countries to compete on the world stage?
South Africa is sending its largest ever team with five athletes.
But six decades since an African nation made its debut, the continent's first medal remains elusive.
We'll be joined by Africa's sleigh queen, the snow leopard and the snow balk.
First of all, it's Simidele Adiagbo who became the first Nigerian to compete at the Winter Olympics in 2018 and was the first black female Olympian in the sport of skeleton, along with Matt Smith, who only took up the sport three years ago and is now going to be South Africa's sole cross-country skier in the 2026 Olympics.
Hello to you both.
Welcome.
Thanks for having me.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Matt, first of all, you're only the 16th South African in Winter Olympic history to qualify for the Games.
What will representing your country at your first Olympics mean to you?
And it's been a childhood dream.
I'd always dreamt of being a springbok.
My nation is very famous for our rugby team, right?
And now today they call me the snowbok.
So it's a nice reminder that not all dreams come true in the way you expected them.
But actually, I would say that it's shaped in a more beautiful way and a more fitting way.
So I'll take the snowbok happily.
And Simi, you'll know exactly what this feels like having competed in 2018 in Pyeongchang.
You must be so proud of what you achieved in the sport to be a part of the Olympic Games.
Yeah, it's a special achievement.
And so I just want to start by congratulating Matt.
I think this is just so awesome.
And I wish you all the best in Milano Cortina.
And I love that.
That snowbuck, like that is...
That's so awesome.
And it was really powerful to hear how you described, kind of like, this Olympic dream that has come to life in a very different way than maybe you originally expected, but it's come to life nonetheless.
And that really resonates with me because that's my story as well.
I started in track and field and that was my original Olympic dream to be a Summer Olympian.
But then it took shape at the Winter Olympics in a way that was very unexpected, but even actually more sweet in a way, because it was so historic for the continent of Africa.
So I applaud you for continuing that history, paving the path for more Africans.
And I think it's so awesome to keep that door wide open.
So congratulations.
Thank you.
I think it's such a unique point in time Simbi, because we are at an inflection point, I find, because I'm proud to say that, whilst I'm referred to as a snowbox, actually I'm part of the snowbox because South Africa is not sending me.
This is the first games in history we're sending my team than two athletes.
We're actually sending five athletes.
So it's very groundbreaking.
We're happening right now and we're seeing this wave now, especially in my sport.
I don't know how it is for you simi, but in cross-country skiing i'm seeing people from tanzania in cross-country skiing nigeria, other african nations, and we are now seeing that more and more of these athletes are qualifying and going to games.
So i feel like we are at a point now where continental Africa is going to be represented more so 2030, 2034 coming.
So I feel very grateful to be part of that initial ripple that will now hopefully create waves for a very large population continent as well.
To be medal contending in once was a formerly Northern Hemispherian Sporting Olympics.
What I've noticed is since I competed in Pyeongchang.
At that point, it was the most African countries that were represented at an Olympic Games.
I think it was like eight countries or so from the continent.
But then we saw a drop off in 2022 in Beijing.
And that for me was a step back.
So I'm eager to see what the data is looking like for this Olympic Games.
But just hearing that South Africa has five athletes in the delegation is amazing.
Awesome.
I know someone from Skeleton that will be presenting.
So Nicole Berger, shout out to my Skeleton sliding folks.
But I think that's awesome.
And that's the trajectory that we need to continue to see.
Africa is a huge continent, more than a billion people.
And so it's really important that that representation is proportionate at the Olympic Games.
And so I'm glad to hear that there's continuous movement.
I was the first Nigerian winter Olympian.
And so Pyeongchang was less than 10 years ago.
So we're not even a decade in.
And so what?
The challenge that comes with that is just limited infrastructure, limited support, limited funding.
And these are barriers that make it difficult for more people to to be on that path.
So I don't know what your experience has been, but I think those are just some of the barriers that I've seen on my journey.
Well, I think I'm right in saying that.
It's not even four years, is it, since you took up the sport of cross-country skiing?
Three years, and now here you are at the Olympics.
Incredible.
From zero.
Yeah, three years from zero.
It's been an unbelievable journey.
And actually, it's not three, it's two because you qualified the year before.
So I'd lost a year before I started.
Sydney, as you said that.
I just wanted to say something that has been a running thread throughout my journey.
You can't be what you can't see.
And I think you paving the way, you talk about Nigeria as a country.
I mean most people are surprised that it has, I mean, pushing quarter of a billion population right.
That'll be on par with the US in probably the next 20 years or so.
What an unbelievable source of talent that could and should find its way through every sport.
And it is.
But as you quite rightly said, the pathways are not necessarily set there.
And I think as athletes we also have a responsibility to be role models but also to pave that way.
You know, if you were to use the metaphor of snow uh, you know, if you walk through fresh snow, you know you make a path for the person behind you.
Then they make it a bit more streamlined and it just gets better.
You know, even if it's still snowing, there's a pathway for others to come, and it's no different in this sense.
So i think you know the amazing work you've done in the last sort of coming to a decade now to support athletes going to further future games, and it's something that i take on with great pride that i see how can i contribute to the next wave of south african athletes by bringing in North south south, north be it funding, flows of knowledge, experience and talent, to hopefully, and I feel confidently be more represented in games to come.
Well, I did also promise we'd be joined by a snow leopard.
And I'm delighted to say that we can hear now from Sabrina Zimada, who became the first female and first ever Alpine skier to represent Kenya at a Winter Olympics in 2018.
Despite qualifying for Milan, Cortina has been forced to miss out due to financial difficulties.
Well, Sabrina, first of all, you raced in the Super G event in 2018.
What was that Olympic experience like for you then?
Yeah, it was amazing.
I mean, it was my first big Olympic Games.
And yeah, I participated in two disciplines, Super G and Giant Slalom.
I made so many cool experiences, met so many awesome athletes.
And yeah, it was just incredible.
What does it mean to you then to be an Olympian, to be a winter Olympian?
A lot, actually, especially for Africa, which is not known for winter sports.
And also Kenyan are more known for the marathon and athletics.
So, yeah, it's a big honor.
What was the reaction then when you were representing Kenya at the Winter Games?
Yeah, it was huge.
I mean, the attention was insane.
I was 18, 19.
And yeah, I didn't expect that.
And I got so many messages and they get in touch with snow, with ski racing.
And yeah, it was so cool.
How does it feel to have broken down those barriers then, to have been a trailblazer for Kenya at the Winter Games?
It means really a lot.
I think, to be the first female especially, it's a big honour because I went through a lot of challenges, through a lot of ups and downs.
But I'm really proud that I made it this far.
And yeah.
Let me ask you about these games, though for you because you had qualified, I understand, but then announced your decision to retire last year.
You had cited financial difficulties.
You spoke of the challenges that you had faced.
How did you come to that difficult decision then, Sabrina?
After I went to Kenya this summer...
I tried to talk with them and to have a couple of meetings.
But, like in the past seasons, it was always very hard to find the financial support from them that they understand what it means to be on this level.
And yeah, so I made this hard decision this summer.
I mean...
I fought it for over 11 years.
I achieved a lot, even through all these challenges.
And I'm very, very thankful for my sponsors and who keep believing in me.
A tough one to take, though, when you had the chance to go and compete at the Olympics again.
Yeah, true.
How did you feel?
Um, at the beginning?
Very sad, for sure frustrated, because you know i worked really hard for for this and especially for the cortina olympic games.
Um, it's one of my favorites and i really love the slope and everything.
But yeah, a dream without a plan is just a dream.
So That was the decision and now I'm accepting it and I'm looking forward and I'm also building up a ski camp so I can take all this experience for the upcoming champions and generations, to support them and to hopefully help them with better surroundings.
My thanks to Kenya's Sabrina Zimada.
I've spent the last three decades trying to better understand money across the boardroom, the newsroom and the trading floor.
That's longer than most podcast hosts have been alive.
But even I've got questions.
Join me, Maren Subset-Webb, every week for my show Maren Talks Money from Bloomberg Podcasts, where I have in-depth conversations with fund managers, strategists and experts about how markets really work.
And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions on how to make those markets work for you.
Follow Merrin Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
Nigeria's Simidele Adiagbo and South Africa's Matt Smith are still with us.
Let's talk about the challenges that are in place then, for some of the non-traditional nations to compete at the Winter Olympic Games.
What is really blocking the path then and is it getting easier?
I'd like to say yes, but in some ways, no.
I think definitely the see it to be it is in place.
So the inspiration is there.
I say to people, yeah, you have to see it to be it, but I didn't have it.
So I had to be it so that others could see.
So, that is there and other people have contributed to that.
I'm certainly not the only one.
But I think where we're kind of still struggling is systemically we don't have the systems in place for support.
And that happens from the global level.
So I look to the IOC and the international federations to really put some structured programs in place that will help develop this rich talent pool that Matt spoke about.
Africa is bursting with talent, um, but you need structure to be able to develop that talent.
And so the national federation struggled to do that on their own, because in a lot of cases they're new to the sport.
They're still trying to figure it out.
They're lacking, um, training facilities.
They're lacking knowledgeable coaches.
They're lacking the expertise and know-how, but they need the partnership of those who do have it.
So that would be the international federations and also at the IOC level.
I really look to them to try to put some more formal systems in place to create a pipeline that will help groom and develop the talent and for generations to come.
Sure, you have dedicated, committed athletes like myself and Matt who are doing what we can, but it takes a village, as we like to say, in Africa, and that's true in sport.
And the other thing that I'd like to actually ask Matt a little bit about is kind of the qualifying system, because I think that that also plays a role And from what I understand correct me if I'm wrong in cross-country skiing you have some of the most universal, open kind of qualification systems within the Winter Olympic movement.
You're right.
I'm not sure if it's just cross-country.
There may be a few other disciplines.
I'm not aware.
But cross-country skiing first of all, we have one of the largest, if not the largest, quota allocation of men and women right.
I think we have 148 spots for men, 148 spots for women across all the races, right?
Meaning the top nations take eight, and then it goes down that list.
There is a pathway to qualify.
You can't turn up, punch your ticket and go.
You can't be the best athlete in your country.
No, you have to.
There's a minimum IOC, Olympic quota number.
You have to hit of how good you are in specific races.
And then there's a ski federation FISF, carrot thing.
So there's two things you need to need to hit, and you know, for taking myself as an example right, you know, i started three years ago from zero, having never skied really beforehand.
Um, i've spent three years of my life on it, at full time, effectively and whilst also doing a bit of work to pay for the whole thing self-funded, as you said, and i was an athlete before, so i did come with that cardiovascular system from triathlon, so i didn't just walk off the sofa to do this so, But there's opportunity for other triathletes then to look at this and then the pathway there.
So, to answer your question, cross-country skiing and the quota system, it is still.
If you have an Olympic dream and you put the work in and you sacrifice it, There is a pathway.
If you don't start at 12 years old or two years old, I started at 32 years old.
I'm 35 now and I have a child.
There is a pathway to make it, which I think is an opportunity to grow the bottom end of the table of nations, as you referred to.
And now I'm doing good with it.
That's the thing.
I'm not using this as my ticket to go to the Olympics.
One and done.
Ciao for now.
Thanks for having me.
I believe and I want to contribute and become a role model in the process, as we've spoken about, to pave the way for more to come.
And just to underline that, Simi as well, because you narrowly missed out on automatic qualification for Beijing in 2022 and there was no African athlete represented in the sliding sports four years ago, because the continental quota system was dropped for the sliding sports.
So why is it important then to ensure there is this greater representation, there is that greater diversity in the sport, and opportunities then for athletes from Africa, from other developing nations, to come through in the Winter Games.
Yeah, because point blank, this is part of the Olympic value system.
If you look in the charters of the Olympic charter, you see that universality, which is what you have described, which is representation for all of the continents.
You know that make the Olympic movement.
This is an important value within the Olympics and the Olympic movement.
So it's important that the Winter Olympics represents that.
In 2018, we did have continental representation, which created a pathway for myself and other athletes to be able to represent our countries and represent Africa in the Olympic Games, but there was such resistance from the international sliding community because people felt that we didn't earn this and they felt like it was a pathway that was somehow taking away from other athletes who have been in the sport and been training all their lives for this and were perhaps better from a competition level standpoint.
But that's not what the Olympics is about.
Yes, you want the best of the best, but it's really about nations being able to be represented.
And again, these are systemic things that I would ask that the IOC, the International Federations, really take a look at, because these are things that are going to help with future generations to be able to see more of us from the continent of Africa represented in 2030 and 2034 and going forward for the future.
So the more resources and structure we can build in, I have no doubt that we will see an African medal at the Olympic Games within the next who knows, decade or more.
So Let's put a bet on it.
That'll be fun.
Yeah.
So we just need the opportunity.
That's what, you know, at the end of the day, that's the starting point.
If you don't have opportunity and access, then you can't even, you know, you don't have a chance.
And talking about being part of a larger community as well.
I think Matt, you're in a WhatsApp group, aren't you?
For athletes from these non-traditional nations, shall we say?
So what is said amongst the group then?
What do you do?
Can you provide support for athletes from different countries around the world that are taking part in the Olympics?
I'll tell you what's said in the group.
Hey, I'm coming through Oslo this weekend.
Who has a sofa for me to crash on?
Yes, I do.
It grew in the most organic of ways.
You would be at an event and you'd see Joey from Uruguay all of a sudden.
And then he didn't have someone to wax his skis.
So why don't you come and join me in Mexico? over here.
And then it slowly grew into this group, which is now, I believe there's 54 people in the group, probably represented by 45 nations or so, from Saudi Arabia to Tanzania, etc.
And we share resources, we share sofas when one is needed, we share car lifts accommodation, and it has become the thing that I will take with me.
Because the truth, in my experience, of course, unless you maybe win a gold medal, but In 20 30, 50 years time, when I look back on my life as a professional athlete, I will probably more often than not forget the time and the place in the race, but I will never forget who I crossed the finish line with
And that is Team Avalanche in its essence.
So Team Avalanche is your social media WhatsApp group then, is it?
It is exactly that.
It is where I go to for all information and where we share resources.
It's where we share information about races.
We share waxing for the skis and equipment is sold and shared.
There's a whole secondary market in there as well.
So it's a beautiful thing that I think everyone in that group is grateful to have.
And we have debates in that.
We challenge.
How can we help FIS and IOC make this more universally acceptable?
For us?
To be perfectly said that
So you know, we have a political angle as well, where we discuss how to make this better for all, not just let's fight our corner.
Let's be more holistic about how we look at the sport grow, because we feel that we can contribute to the growth in the sport, coming from places where the sports are often unknown and could have the potential to be not just known but be medal contending in the future.
So an African medal at a Winter Olympics is definitely possible.
What within the next decade, would you both say?
What do you think, Simi?
Maybe I was a bit aggressive with that.
But you know I like to dream big.
But it is possible.
With the right talent, with the right support and with the right resources, a medal is possible.
So 10 years?
If we're really all clicking on all cylinders and we get an influx of funding, who knows?
But yeah, I think maybe the next 25 years might be a little bit more feasible.
My money is on Simi and your sport, actually.
My money is on Nicole Berger, who has come out of not nowhere but has come, has risen to the ranks.
In a way, I've never seen anything and qualified for the Games now.
And I can't wait to see her race, because I really feel like she's going to not only get us our first medal as a continent, but get South Africa its first medal as well.
So never mind 10 years, could be 10 days or so, maybe, until that medal.
Yeah, I would love to see it.
No pressure, Nicole, but I believe in you.
Just finally, Matt's heading out to these games.
Then Simi, you've been there before.
Have you got a little bit of advice for Matt heading into the Olympics?
It's simple.
Just enjoy every moment.
Enjoy it.
Enjoy it.
Enjoy it.
It's like nothing you would have ever experienced in your life.
So the beauty of all these nations coming together for those 17 days and really being in that moment, beautiful bubble of the village, just being around athletes from all sports and all nations.
One of my best memories from those, my Olympics was just getting to be in the dining hall.
And this is a space where everyone is able to connect, you know.
So I remember just really thinking like okay, I have three meals a day.
Like who can I connect with this meal?
And having a Lunch with, you know, Great Britain and dinner with another nation, and just like really using those opportunities to just meet people and celebrate this global community of sport.
And you're making history for your country.
This is a memory that is going to live with you.
So the more you enjoy it, the better you're going to do.
Savor all of the memories and have lots of fun.
Thank you, Sammy.
It's an interesting one because we have these pins that I think many of us athletes know about.
But for those who don't, you're actually given a bag of sort of 300, 400 pins.
And the pins are your Olympic Committee flag, South Africa's Olympic Committee flag SASCOP in my case.
And it is sort of almost a game during the Olympics to get all the pins.
So, for example, I would go over to Nigeria and say pin swap, right.
So actually, you know, we spoke about our fight to get into the qualification criteria and be there, and maybe sometimes we feel a little bit that we don't belong in some cases, but when you're at the games, i think we are rare and therefore we are in high demand actually.
So we need to be, we need to ration the pins actually, because everybody wants the south african, you know, the one south african pin from their village, or or nigerian, or whatever else, right?
So um yeah, i think i'm going to use that to my advantage.
I'll be in demand.
See how you can use them to your benefit.
Matt, we wish you all the very best.
Have a great time at the Olympics.
Thank you so much.
I had to do it, holding the South African flag up here.
Well done to everyone who's qualified.
Well done to everyone who's watching.
And I cannot wait to see a South African or continental African, but obviously I'm a little bit biased.
Podium coming very soon.
Yeah, let's hope so.
Matt, Simi, thank you both so much for joining us.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having us.
That's all from More Than The Score.
My thanks to Simi Dele, Adi Agbo and Matt Smith.
Be sure to follow and subscribe to More Than The Score wherever you get your podcasts, so you never miss an episode.
But until next time, from me Lee James, it's goodbye for now.
Hi, it's Emily Thomas from the Global News podcast again.
I hope you enjoyed this bonus episode.
To hear more stories from the Winter Olympics and other sporting events every weekday, search for More Than The Score, wherever you get your BBC podcasts.
I've spent the last three decades trying to better understand money across the boardroom, the newsroom and the trading floor.
That's longer than most podcast hosts have been alive.
But even I've got questions.
Join me, Merrin Somerset Webb, every week for my show.
Merrin Talks Money from Bloomberg Podcasts, where I have in-depth conversations with fund managers, strategists and experts about how markets really work.
And join me for a separate episode where I answer listener questions on how to make those markets work for you.
Follow Merrin Talks Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen.
