We have a podcast rec for you, one we think you're going to absolutely love.
For the Love with Jen Hatmaker. Jen is a New York Times bestselling author whose life's work is helping women show up for their lives with honesty, joy, and courage.
She believes that women living in freedom are the answer to what ails the world, and I agree.
I recently joined them to talk about secrets of adulthood and how to live a happier, simpler life.
If you're into real talk, good laughs, and a little soul fuel, For the Love is a must.
Listen and follow wherever you get your podcasts.
Hello, we're here for more Happier, a podcast where we get happier.
It's the weekend. It's time for some weekend listening with a looser vibe.
Hey, Elizabeth. Hey, Gretch. Today, we'll talk about how the Real Housewives can show us the wrong way to do something important.
And we will talk about how the empty nest, or as I like to call it, open door phase, is going for me.
But first, something making us happier. Elizabeth, what is something making you happier?
Well, Gretch, it is summer, and, you know, I am sitting outside almost every day for a significant amount of time, and it is making me so much happier.
We have a lovely backyard here, which we have worked very hard on, or I should say Adam has worked very hard on.
To be clear. Yes. Nothing. But I am just making a habit of it now that it's summer of taking coffee outside, sitting outside with the dogs.
The other night, several other nights, I should say, Adam and I have sat outside in the evening.
A lot of times it'll be cool enough here to even turn on the fire pit, even though it's summer.
And it's just lovely. We've gotten our citronella candles to keep the mosquitoes away.
That works with varying degrees of success, depending on what it's like outside.
But it really does make me happier to sit outside.
The thing is, I'm so confused about the weather in Los Angeles because isn't it really extremely hot now?
But I mean, or it just I never understand like what weather to expect.
Yes. Well, it really depends. I mean, this week, it's really no hotter than the 80s all day.
And at night, you know, it'll go down to the low 60s sometimes.
Now, in the Valley, we can have stretches where it's over 100 and it stays hot at night.
But a lot of the time, it does not do that.
It cools down to a beautiful temperature at night.
And we are having a mild stretch right now, I would say.
Well, this is a good reminder of not wanting to take things for granted.
Because I think when you have a lot of good weather, it's easier to take good weather for granted and not make the most of it and think, well, I should be enjoying a beautiful day with my cup of coffee.
Even though I could do it yesterday, I should still do it today and get that same enjoyment.
You don't want to take it for granted because then the weather gets bad and you're like, why didn't I do it when I had the chance?
Yeah. And Gretchen, you know, you always talk about using the things that you like about your house.
Yes. So I really am trying to go, okay, we love our backyard.
We have some really comfortable chairs out there.
Let me take advantage of that and use it.
And I can work outside. I've been often reading my daily War and Peace chapter outside and I have this new concept planner where I'm taking notes about a novel outside, so I'll take that out.
I'm so curious about that, Elizabeth, because I heard you and Sarah talking about that on Happier in Hollywood, and I'm very intrigued by it.
So once you get it filled out a little bit, I'm going to ask you to show it to me because I'm interested in what that... That seems like a very pleasant thing to do, like writing in your concept journal in your backyard with your cup of coffee.
That seems like a nice practice. Yes, it is a nice practice.
So what about you, Gretch? What's making you happier as we march through summer?
Well, I was thinking there's a kind of pleasure that I get.
I guess I would call it travel satisfaction.
There's an element of smugness to it where it does an ever so slight air of self-congratulation.
But it's also what I would call the pleasure of things working as they should.
Like, I love thinking about like the postal service, right?
Because it's like, it's so efficient and how amazing you put a letter in a box and then it gets delivered wherever you want.
And it's so efficient and it works the way that it should.
You know, we talk about when airplanes get delayed or when there's like a problem on the subway, but basically these things work.
I did my 10 cities in 10 days for my book tour and everything worked perfectly.
I take the subway constantly and like, And every so often there's an issue, but almost always it works great.
And I stand there for like two minutes before a subway comes.
And I'll just be walking through, especially when I'm doing like a change, which, by the way, I don't know how to do that in my head.
It's not like I've gotten so sophisticated about how to use the subway.
My app tells me exactly what to do. But I'm like, here I am.
I'm transferring from the four, five, six.
And then I'm going to take the seven over and then I'm going to pick up the one or whatever.
And I'm walking through. And I see all these people walking purposefully, and everybody knows where they're going, and we're sorting ourselves out.
And, like, we all go in, and we all come out, and everybody's peaceful and organized.
Or you're, like, at the airport, and it's like planes are landing and planes are taking off.
And all these people are there, but they somehow get sorted into their proper gates.
And I will just walk down and I just have this feeling of like, here I am, all grown up with my roller bag or, you know, or my bandolier slung around my neck.
And I am just striding through the halls, going exactly where I want to go.
And I just, I don't know. It's just, I do get a kick out of it.
Which, why? You know, it's like everybody else does it too.
It's not like I'm the only one who's figured out how to use a subway or an airport.
Right. And yet I do get this pleasure from all of us getting where we're going and also just a pleasure of myself doing it.
It's sort of odd. I hear you on that. I think I get happier from, you know, the same exact thing.
I remember recently I was in New York and I used the subway to go see my friend Caroline, who lives way downtown.
And everyone kept telling me, Elizabeth, use the subway.
It's going to be the most convenient way to get there.
And then sure enough. Yes. I was at Caroline's door in like 13 minutes.
I couldn't believe it. And it was the most convenient thing.
And then coming back up, same thing, extremely fast.
And it was so satisfying. So I get what you're saying.
Yeah. It reminds me of this passage that I read in a really remarkable essay that I highly recommend called No Place Like Home that Nancy Franklin wrote in The New Yorker.
It's dated October 16th, 1995. I read this essay several times when I was writing Happier at Home, I think.
And here's how she sort of describes her own take on this kind of pleasure.
She wrote, My dinner with Andre being a very talky, New York-y kind of movie.
But I love this self-conscious weariness and this idea that, like, somebody's watching through a camera and remarking on it.
That's kind of related to how I feel as I'm walking around, like, look at her go.
Oh, she's got it figured out. Maybe it's a very New York-y thing, because I will say I also would feel this, Gretchen.
Back when I lived in New York, I lived in the village and I worked on 17th Street and I would walk to and from work every day.
And I would feel this very often where I would get just this wave of happiness over just walking home and, you know, being an adult walking to work.
Yes. So I get it. But do you ever get it when you're driving to work or you were like, here she is in her car.
She's on the highway. She's driving to the lot or something like that.
Do you ever get that feeling? Well, you know, I've been working from home for so long.
I haven't had it recently, but yeah, I think I will.
No, I know you wrote in your sub stack that you wanted to go back to work.
Yeah, so I want to go back to working in an office.
Yes, I have been working from home really mostly since the pandemic, and I am tired of it.
Mom kept saying people will get tired of it, and I think she's right.
Well, you're very, very social, too. It's the part of the job I love is being social.
So I miss it. It's just not the same. Being social on a Zoom is just not the same as being social in person.
But yeah, I think there is that pleasure of travel.
I get it. Because I was thinking about for Project Ebony Nest about adjacent joys, like you love to feed or you love to celebrate.
And that's tied up in parenting, but it's not essential to parenting.
It's an adjacent joy of parenting. So maybe this is sort of like a bundle of pleasures that I experience at these times.
And part of it is things working as they should and being free and going where I want and travel.
And it's all mixed up in my mind. But anyway, I was just in the subway and I was like, oh, this is something that is really making me happy.
I love the subway. Maybe we can call it like the pleasure of to-ing and fro-ing.
The pleasure of going to and fro. I like that.
Okay, good. All right. Okay, Gretch, coming up, I've got a lesson from the Real Housewives.
You know I love my lessons from the Real Housewives, but first this break.
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You know how much we love a travel hack.
And if you've been keeping up with our podcast, you know we just revisited one of our favorite episodes where we shared our all-time favorite travel tips.
My favorite travel hack is to keep a travel toiletry kit stocked at all times.
That way, rather than unpacking or repacking your toiletries every time you travel, you just keep a kit of all your travel-size goodies in your closet year-round.
Another travel hack, hosting your space on Airbnb when you're away.
Yep, your place, just sitting there while you're off on vacation could actually be making you money.
With Airbnb, you decide when to host, who stays, and how much to charge.
And Airbnb gives you support every step of the way.
It is just the smart thing to do. And just think, with all that extra cash coming in, you can start saving toward your next weekend getaway.
You might as well. You already have your toiletries packed.
Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at Airbnb.com slash host.
Okay, Elizabeth, it's time for lessons from The Real Housewives.
You know, I don't watch The Real Housewives, but I feel like I've learned so much from them because of your teachings.
I feel like you channel The Real Housewives for the benefit of all.
Yes, I am a student of The Real Housewives, and I take from them the good and the bad.
When the student is ready, the teacher appears, right?
Yes. And the teacher can come in many forms.
Okay. Yes. Yes. One thing that comes up a lot on The Real Housewives are apologies, okay?
Because people are often acting badly, doing things that one needs to apologize for.
And what you realize watching The Housewives is something we all know, but it's good to be reminded of, which is there are good ways to apologize and there are bad ways to apologize.
Yes, yes. And a bad way to apologize, and Gretchen, I mean, I am guilty of doing this many, many times myself, is to apologize, but in your apology to have a justification of your behavior or reason why you had to do what you did.
Yes. Right. Right. Right. Right. It's funny that you said this because I was just asked on like some questionnaire, what's my superpower and what's my Achilles heel?
And I said my superpower was noticing when other people said something interesting.
And my Achilles heel or my kryptonite, I think they asked, my kryptonite was my defensiveness.
Yes. Because, you know, I have my thing where I can't stand any plot having unjust accusation.
I will often want to explain like, well, I want you to understand exactly what was going on in my mind.
And it's just it's not satisfying. No. And I, in the same way, I apparently don't take criticism.
Well, I have been told, although I feel I take criticism very well, certainly in a professional.
You take criticism morning, noon and night.
Maybe you're just OK by the time. Professionally.
You're like, I do it constantly, like 10 hours a day.
Yeah. Personally is different. I think. Yeah.
Personally is different. So just say you're sorry.
Don't explain why you did it. Of course, the classic is, I'm sorry if I offended you.
Yes. Right? That will get you in trouble every time.
Yes. And on The Housewives, Gretchen, I was trying to think of, like, what's a great example, but it literally comes up so often on The Housewives that people are giving bad apologies that I couldn't even isolate one time.
If you watch any episode of The Housewives, there's bound to be a bad apology there.
The other thing I was thinking about as a lesson on apologies from the housewives is just using apologizing as a way to get away with bad behavior.
There was this one housewife, Ramona, from New York City, who would just do whatever bad thing she wanted and then apologize.
And that's not acceptable either. Did it become clear through the pattern of her behavior that she was like, ask forgiveness, not permission, and that was just her way of operating?
Yes. I think they had a name for her that was something like the Apologinator, something like that, some sort of name for her because she just would always say the most awful things and then very sincerely apologize.
And if you are doing things over and over and over that you have to apologize for, you really need to look at your behavior and think about changing it.
Yes. Well, you know, when I wrote The Happiness Project, a big reason that I did it was that I was feeling guilty.
I was just feeling like I'm yelling too much.
I'm too irritable. I'm feeling bad for the way I'm behaving.
I'm not living up to my standards for myself.
And I don't want to keep apologizing for it.
I want to just do a better job by managing myself better.
So in this way, well, maybe one of the lessons from The Real Housewives is...
Look at your apologies, and if there's a pattern there, figure out, do I need to take bigger action?
As an analogy, a friend of mine, she tripped a couple times on her foot, and, like, the first time, I think she banged her knee, and the second time, she sort of sprained her ankle or whatever, and she went to her doctor, and he said, the real question is, why do you keep tripping?
Yes. And saying, now we're seeing a pattern.
And it turned out she dragged her foot. I guess this is a fairly common thing.
But if you're doing something more than a few times, you need to step back and say, okay, is there a larger pattern that I need to be aware of instead of just the constant apologies, which then ring very hollow.
Yes. Yes, and the other thing, Gretchen, on a positive note about apologies is that it is amazing what an apology can do, a good apology.
I know for myself, I can be so mad, let's say at Adam, and then if he apologizes, it just totally goes away.
It's amazing to me how quickly bad feelings can just evaporate with a simple acknowledgment.
So it's something to remember. One of my secrets of adulthood is if we take the blame when we deserve it, others will give us more responsibility.
And again, it's because I think sometimes people think like, well, I don't want to take the blame for something.
Taking the blame is sort of akin to apologizing, which is accepting responsibility.
I think people are like, well, it'll undermine me.
Like my coworkers will think less of me or my family will be more angry at me.
But in fact, when you take responsibility, when you deserve it, you don't want to just be some doormat.
But if you deserve it, then I think it calms them down.
They see, okay, this person has accepted responsibility.
Now they can learn. I don't have to worry that the finger is going to get pointed at me because somebody else is self-identified as the person responsible for a mistake.
It is. It's amazingly powerful. And I think people sometimes they think if I apologize, then I'm going to be accepting blame.
And then somehow that's going to make things worse.
Whereas, in fact, it makes it better. Yeah, and Gretchen, I wanted to mention to you that I was thinking about this because apologies came up as a major topic on the premiere of The Real Housewives of Orange County.
And they were having a conversation about whether or not someone should apologize at the Golden Door, which is a place that you and I went together.
So they were doing Tai Chi in the room where you and I did Tai Chi.
And I saw all the places where we had been.
So that was super fun. Oh, that is so fun.
That's great. Well, I was curious about apology.
I looked up what are the elements of an effective apology.
So this is interesting. Okay. First is acknowledgement of the harm.
Clearly state what you did wrong and how it affected the other person.
Okay. So this is like, okay, I get it. This is what I did wrong.
Expression of regret, which is you express remorse.
Take responsibility. And this is like avoid making excuses and that you understand that it was your fault.
So you're taking responsibility. Offer to make amends.
Try to repair the damage or to say that you're not going to do it again.
And then sometimes you ask for forgiveness.
But I think it is really, even if you lose your temper at your eight-year-old and you want to apologize for it, you want to give an effective apology.
Yes. So thank you to the Housewives for that lesson.
Yes. Gretchen, what is our spotlight on a tool?
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Excellent. Okay, coming up, there's something I've been meaning to ask you, but first this break.
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Okay, Gretchen, we're back, and there is something I've been meaning to ask you, which is what is it like to parent an adult child?
And I'm really thinking about Eliza because she's 26, which is decidedly an adult.
Eleanor may sort of be an adult, but I feel like as long as you're in college, you're still really in the child realm.
But what is it like? It's interesting. One thing is, in some ways, it's fantastic because they are, well, I mean, I'll speak to Eliza.
One thing that's amazing about Eliza is she's super resourceful.
And so she's really good at problem solving or researching things.
And so she's really this resource person.
We were together and Barnaby hurt his leg.
And before you knew it, Liza's like, okay, here is a weekend clinic.
Like, you know, because we weren't here in New York City.
So we couldn't just go to our regular vet.
Like, here's a place we can go. And this is where it is.
And this is what the hours are. And she just got it figured out by the time I had like emerged from my fog and realized that he really was limping a lot.
So she's super resourceful. So there's somebody to turn to, which is amazing.
And then also it's like I really am trying to embrace this idea, you know, that Polish proverb, not my circus, not my monkeys, where it's like they aren't my problems to solve.
I don't have to have a view unless somebody asks for my opinion.
I don't have to have an opinion. I can be super, super interested and engaged, like she's working on her thesis for her master's program, and I love talking to her about it.
But do I have to say, is this the right subject for your thesis?
Should you be writing a thesis at all? Should you do this?
Should you do that? I'm like, I don't have to worry about that.
So that's very freeing, but it's also, you know, it takes a switch.
Right. It's got to be, it takes some discipline to not be more actively parenting.
Yes. Yes. Well, it's that idea of switching from coach to cheerleader, where you're not coaching from the sidelines, you're just cheering.
You know, I love Secrets of Adulthood, so I've started writing my Secrets of Adulthood for the open door phase for my book Project Empty Nest.
And so here's a few of them. Tell me what, if you agree.
One is, unsolicited advice feels like criticism.
And Gretch, I am so guilty of that. That really hit home with me.
What kind of unsolicited advice do you give?
To Jack. Why don't you do this? Why don't you do that?
You could do this, you know. And it definitely feels like criticism.
Okay, but here's the one thing that I will say, and this is the thing about an aphorism.
I'm like, I'm still thinking, like, does this capture all of it?
Because there is an element of advice where you're like, only your mom is going to say, hey, honey, you have really bad breath.
You know what I mean? Like, I do think that you have to remember that as a parent, there are things where maybe you have to be willing to say things that are hard, right?
That's true. Nonetheless, there are many times when unsolicited advice is not helpful.
Yeah. One thing that's really admirable about our parents is they really only give advice when invited to give advice.
Like you practically have to say to them, I am now asking for your advice for them to weigh in, which I think it's easy not to notice bad behavior that people don't commit.
You know what I mean? But I think we should learn the lesson.
Yeah. Okay, so here's another secret of adulthood.
And this is more, this is less the secret of adulthood, I think, than like a motto for myself.
And that is, my daughters live in the full sunshine of my love.
And this is kind of like a metaphor. It's very powerful for me as kind of a visual metaphor. image of my love just beaming out with nothing in between to shadow or to block.
Nothing can come between my daughters and my love.
And so sometimes when I'm getting very irritable or I want to speak up about something or whatever, I just think they should never feel like that would interfere with my full love.
I love that. Those are great. But I'm still learning.
I mean, that's one of the things that's challenging about parenting is that it changes all the time.
Like the minute you get adjusted to two naps, then it's down to one nap.
And then you're like, oh, my gosh, how are we going to live without a nap?
And then the nap is gone. And of course, now Eleanor, Eleanor takes a nap.
Listen, you used to do this. I don't know if you still do it.
I would call this the evening nap where I'm like, it's night.
Don't take a nap at night. But Eleanor will take like a nap at 6 or 7 p.m.
I did go through a long phase of doing that.
I haven't done that lately, but yes, I used to do that.
I remember one time you said to me, oh, I take my most deep and refreshing naps at like, what was it, like seven o'clock?
I'll lie down and I'll go to sleep for two or three hours.
I'm like, we call that going to bed. You're just underslept.
You just need to go to bed. How did you finally outgrow that habit?
I remember that. I don't know. I'm sure it had something to do with having a kid probably.
I don't know. Yeah, forcing you to become more regular.
Maybe. Yeah, that's funny. I want to hear about this as it evolves because, of course, it's in my future as well.
So I love this idea of like mindfully parenting an adult.
Yes, yes. It's very different. I feel like I'm still learning.
Okay, Gretch, what is our quotation this week?
Okay, this is a line attributed to Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who was the senator from New York.
He said, if you want to build a great city, create a great university and wait 200 years.
That reminds me of the best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago, and the second best time is now.
It's kind of along the same lines. Definitely.
So, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier? Yes, I am feeling happier.
Thank you to Chuck. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is the perfect time because you can listen completely ad-free.
Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or go to LemonadaPremium.com to subscribe on any other app.
That's LemonadaPremium.com. Bye, Grudge.
Bye, Elizabeth. Here it is again. The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago.
The second best time is now. Hey, Lizeth and Chuck.
The reason that my camera shut off is because it is so hot in my office.
Since I can't have my air conditioning on while we're recording, the temperature gets very hot very fast.
And I've noticed over time, I think that's what's making my camera shut off.
Oh. Meanwhile, I had my heater on in my office this morning.
If it's not one thing, it's another. From the Onward Project.
You know how much we love a travel hack.
And if you've been keeping up with our podcast, you know we just revisited one of our favorite episodes where we shared our all-time favorite travel tips.
My favorite travel hack is to keep a travel toiletry kit stocked at all times.
That way, rather than unpacking or repacking your toiletries every time you travel, you just keep a kit of all your travel-size goodies in your closet year-round.
Another travel hack, hosting your space on Airbnb when you're away.
Yep, your place, just sitting there while you're off on vacation, could actually be making you money.
With Airbnb, you decide when to host, who stays, and how much to charge, and Airbnb gives you support every step of the way.
It is just the smart thing to do. And just think, with all that extra cash coming in, you can start saving toward your next weekend getaway.
You might as well. You already have your toiletries packed.
Your home might be worth more than you think.
Find out how much at airbnb.com slash host.
