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Hello, we're here for more Happier, a podcast where we get, you guessed it, happier.
It's the weekend.
It's a looser vibe.
Hey, Elizabeth.
Hey, Gretchen.
Today is something a little different.
We are sharing voice memos from our recent excellent reading retreat.
Yeah, we talked about the retreat in episode 545 of Happier.
And in this episode we're sharing voice memos that we recorded along the way live from our reading retreat.
Live from our reading retreat.
Plus, it's a finale.
In kind of a sudden shift in tone.
We share a recording that we made after we cleared Elizabeth's closet once we got back to Encino.
That was a highlight for me not necessarily a highlight for Elizabeth, but we couldn't resist memorializing it with a voice memo.
Yes, it was pretty epic.
Yes.
But Gretch, we had so much fun sharing the recordings we made during our hiking trip in England that we did with Wilderness England last summer that we just wanted to do it again.
It's like a new thing we do.
Yeah, it's really wonderful for us because when we listen to it it brings everything back, because it's recording an event sort of as it's unfolding, because often we reflect back on something after it's happened.
It is sort of fun to be caught up in the unfoldingness of the experience of like oh, we're in the car and we're headed there.
And I have no idea what Los Olivos even looks like.
I think you'd been there, but I have no mental picture in my mind.
It's just fun to be back in that moment of when the adventure is actually happening.
Yeah, I'm just thinking we should do a Try This at Home that's make a audio diary of your vacation.
Oh, that's such a good idea.
That's such a good idea.
Well, to set the scene for the voice memos, we got the idea of a reading retreat because 2025 is the year of Read 25 in 25, where we're challenging ourselves and listeners to read for 25 minutes each a day in 2025.
And of course, a reading retreat slots in nicely with that emphasis on reading.
Yes.
I don't know how the idea even came up.
I assume it was your idea, Gretchen.
It's hard to believe that we haven't had this idea before or done this before.
It now just feels like part of our vernacular to talk about reading retreat.
It feels so obvious.
It's so on point with us.
It's so naturally something that we would want to do.
I know.
The minute we started talking about it, it was just like we didn't even need to flesh it out.
Listen, you make this point about Hollywood sometimes, which is yes, comes right away and no, never comes.
The minute that this came up, we were like, okay, yes, the question is not if but when.
Well, and Gretchen, you know, this whole reading retreat is not unlike many of our childhood vacations.
Yeah, yeah.
Many summers the four of us went to Nantucket and what we would do is bicycle to a beach every day, all read for like seven hours, bicycle back and have dinner.
So we kind of did this in our childhood.
Yeah.
It's interesting, though, because you wouldn't have called it a reading retreat.
We would have said, like, oh, our activity is going to the beach.
But actually, we were just changing venues for reading.
Because, yeah, our whole family loves to read.
No, that's really true.
All the pictures are, like, with people.
Like, I think there's one of you stretched out sleeping with a book over your face for shade.
Yeah.
And then we would play paddleboard for, like, five minutes.
Yeah, go out in the ocean.
Yeah, that's really true.
That's really true.
So Gretchen, we knew we wanted to do this.
We were kind of casting about for where, when we were going to do it, what it was going to be.
And then you realized you had a work trip to Los Angeles and suggested bolting it on to that trip.
And as soon as we made that decision, it all came together very quickly.
Yeah.
Yeah, because we could pull it off.
I mean, maybe it wouldn't have worked for you.
But what was really nice about that is I was already going to be in LA.
So that was sort of like a work flight that I had to take.
And so then you didn't have to buy a plane ticket at all.
And, you know, I just feel like once you have a plane ticket.
The level of complexity and the stakes just rise dramatically.
And, of course, it becomes so much more expensive.
And I don't know.
You and I both really dislike making plane reservations.
So it's sort of like, okay, I'm going to be in L.A. and I'm going to be staying with you.
Maybe we should just drive.
And so because of the decision fatigue, we sort of –
We'd spend some time on the phone kind of like, what about this place?
What about that place?
And it was sort of fun, but it was also sort of not very fun.
And once it was like OK, we wanted to be within driving distance of LA and it should be on either the beginning or the end of my work trip.
Then it just felt like everything became vastly simpler and less expensive.
Yes.
And we decided to go to Los Olivos, which is a little town outside of Santa Barbara, ways from Santa Barbara.
It's in wine country in Santa Ynez.
And a reader suggested it as a good spot for a reading retreat.
And I had been there just for an afternoon.
And so I knew it was really beautiful and I'd always wanted to go back.
Hmm.
And so, knowing that, I just started Googling you know hotels in Los Olivos and we landed on a place called the Inn at Maddie's Tavern, which is a La Berge hotel, which was perfect for us.
Yeah.
It had great rooms, great food.
It had super comfortable beds, which actually made a really big difference, because we slept in the beds, but then we also read in the beds during the day.
So we were like in that bed a significant percentage of our time.
And there was a good place for me to set up with my laptop and my second monitor and a little balcony where we could sit.
Yeah, it was great.
And, you know, this is something that we hadn't thought about, which is that because neither one of us likes to drive at all, this was a place where the town was not a distraction because it wasn't like full of things that we wanted to be doing instead of reading, but because it was wine country.
It was full of restaurants so we could just walk to lunch or dinner and not have to drive.
So we saved the time for more reading.
And then it also just felt more vacationing because we weren't getting in and out of the car, which for us really matters, since neither one of us likes to drive.
Yes.
And then Gretchen.
Another goal we didn't set for ourselves but we both ended up reaching which I think was fun was that we both had a same day book.
I love a same day book.
Yes.
I had one one day and you had one the next day.
Yes.
Yes.
I read James in one day and you read, what did you read in one day?
A Town Like Alice by Neville Shute.
Yeah.
So that was fun.
So that I think also in terms of trying to figure out what to read, that was a little overwhelming.
So I think, when we do it again which we will I'm going to have in mind that I want to have at least one same day book.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, and you know, we didn't set out to do it, but we also did 10000 steps, even though we weren't going for a hike or something, just because we were walking to our meals.
And then after each meal, we would go for a walk for a while.
Because one of the things, if you're doing a lot of reading, you can get very restless.
So you want to get a little bit of exercise so that you have the stamina to stay put for the reading.
Exactly.
All right, Gretch.
So here are some recordings from our sisterly adventure in reading.
Plus, as we mentioned, the end shift.
Okay, Elizabeth, we're on our way.
Yes, we are on our way to the reading retreat in Los Olivos.
We're on the 101 freeway.
We're going to get there within a couple of hours.
Yes.
I had a little bit of an excitement this morning because I got I pulled up to LaGuardia.
I was getting ready to check in and I realized that I was supposed to go to JFK, which I knew perfectly well, because if you know anything about airports, you know that if you're going to fly from New York City to California, you always are leaving from JFK or Newark.
So why I just got it in my brain to go to LaGuardia.
I have no idea.
If you had said to me, what airport are you going to go to to fly to Los Angeles?
I would have said JFK.
But it's just one of those things.
But I did this like 20 years ago where Jamie and I were supposed to leave from Newark.
And I think this is the kind of mistake you make every few decades.
And then you're so scared that you never.
But I did one time go to.
I went to Love Airport instead of I don't know.
But you'd think I would have double checked, but I didn't.
But the other thing is that because you are such an early to the airport person, you had plenty of time to get there.
I did and I felt very smug because I was like this is the reason that people like you and I want to have plenty of time.
Because it's like you can make a major mistake and still make your flight.
So, Gretchen, as we're driving...
Well, first of all, we're about to get to Calabasas, which side note is where all the Kardashians live.
Okay.
I see it.
Yes.
Okay.
But also, I have a surprise stop for us.
Traffic isn't, if it's bad on the way there, then we'll do the surprise stop on the way back.
Oh, that's intriguing.
I'm intrigued for you.
Okay.
Suggested by a listener.
Okay.
Well, that sounds very intriguing.
Yeah.
Well, so far the traffic is good, but knock on wood, we don't want to take it for granted.
So, Elizabeth, you packed a gigantic bag of books.
I guess you just took, you were just like, I'll take everything.
This is why we, this is why a car is nice.
Yes.
I just could not.
I was, I just couldn't decide what I wanted to read.
I don't know what mood I'll be in.
So, I brought everything from Scruples by Judith Krantz to Games.
Okay.
A book and a book.
Yeah, yeah.
Very different.
And I brought, of course, more keys.
Oh, yeah, good.
Well, you know, I figured you would bring yours, so I didn't bring mine.
But I have, like I don't know, I think I brought like 10 or 12 books um, but you, you were more, you were more selective.
Well, I was more selective, but it is hard because yeah yeah, because you're like well, I might not be in the mood, I might not like something, so you have to have a lot of cushion.
Yeah um, but I also knew that then maybe I would borrow a book from you if I needed to.
It was only two days too.
I mean, we're acting like we're gonna read 15 books.
I know, I know we might.
I did read a half a book on Yeah, right here.
Oh, nice.
Now you're all on your way.
Yeah, yeah.
But it was funny because I was debating...
Did I want to bring a more difficult book that would take a lot of concentration, because we'll be able to concentrate.
Or did I want to read something super compelling?
That was just a page turner because I could just race through it?
Yeah.
So I brought both because I couldn't decide.
But yeah, same with you.
We'll see what our mood is.
Yeah.
But I think this was a good idea because we had done when we were planning the retreat We had thought about where should we meet.
And we were looking at places like Denver, which looked really good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thinking we'll sort of meet in the middle.
But then since I had to be in Los Angeles anyway, we thought, well, this is good because...
It's like less plane tickets flying and there's so many great places within driving distance of LA.
Yes, and Los Olivos is a place that I've gone to for like a day trip, like when I was in Santa Barbara, but I've always wanted to stay.
So it's like, I think we'll really like it, I hope.
But the good news is the stakes are low because all we're going to do is sit around and read.
Right, right.
It won't take much to make us happy.
It doesn't need to offer a whole lot.
I also, I love the reading bed.
So even if the seating isn't that good.
Yes.
All right.
Okay.
Well, we're on our way.
Yes.
We'll report back.
Okay.
Now we are entering Los Olivos.
We just saw a sign for it.
It's gorgeous here.
Yes, it's stunning.
And I think we're very close to our hotel.
Yeah.
It's exciting.
Yeah, yeah.
We had a very easy drive.
We stopped at Godmother's Bookstore.
Yes, that was our surprise.
Yes, Alyssa.
Oh, whoops, here we go.
All right.
Got to pay attention here a little bit.
Yes.
So Godmother's Bookstore is this very well-known, gorgeous bookstore.
Where would you say it is?
It's new.
It's known, but new.
It's known, but new.
It's in Summerland?
Summerland.
Summerland.
And so we stopped off, of course, couldn't pass that up.
And a listener had suggested it.
Okay.
Oh, we better stop and look around.
Okay.
Right here.
Okay.
Okay, Gretch, we are here.
We're at a reading retreat.
We've checked into the hotel.
We went on a walk.
We ate some food.
Yep.
And then we came back and got all our books and started reading.
Yes, I'm wearing the hotel robe.
I decided one of my things was going to be to wear the robe whenever I possibly could.
So I got into it immediately.
You put it on.
It's funny because usually when you come to a new place, you feel like you have to find out what are all the things you need to do, and take advantage of it.
It just felt so different, decadent and delicious feeling.
Okay, now we can start reading.
Now we get in bed and we're just going to stay here.
And i'm actually listening to something.
Right now i'm finishing that book rivals that i've been reading.
Oh yeah, what are you reading?
I am reading a town like alice by neville suit, and do you think you'll finish it fairly soon?
I read a big.
I think I read half of it on the plane coming to Los Angeles, so I might.
I might finish it tonight.
Nice, a Sunday book, my favorite kind of oh, that's great.
Um, all right well, we'll get back to it.
You got to get up war and peace.
Yes, I have to read our daily war and peace coming up Gretchen and I take a walk in Los Olivos.
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Okay, we're back with more from our reading retreat.
Okay, reporting in from the reading retreat.
Hello, we are now taking a walk through Los Olivos, taking a morning reading break.
Yes, because one of the things we realized about reading is that you can get restless and or sleepy.
And so, after some very good reading, it's good to get up and walk around and get some fresh air, get some exercise.
And so we decided to walk through what is the town of Los Olivos.
Yes.
One thing we've realized is this is a perfect town for a reading retreat because there are really good restaurants.
Yes.
It's very pretty, but there's really nothing to do here except go wine tasting, which we're not going to do.
So therefore, the reading is very, you know, it's perfect for this situation.
We don't have this feeling of like we're missing out on going to all these like museums and stores and galleries and events and everything.
But it feels bustling and nice because there's all this wine tasting opportunities.
And I think it must be, what, 74 degrees?
It's perfect.
The weather is absolutely perfect.
I mean, I do feel kind of like a hike.
Like, oh, this would be such a great day to go for a hike.
But now we're going for a stroll.
Yes.
Yes.
Absolutely.
Lovely.
Okay, so I am reading.
I did a one day book yesterday, same day book, which is I read A Town Like Alice by Neville Shute.
In one day, which I love having a same day book.
Oh, I think we just walked through some Jasmine.
Wow.
Yum.
But now I have just started The Good Apprentice by Iris Murdoch, which I'm just getting into.
It often takes a little while to get into an Iris Murdoch book because she's setting up her universe, which sometimes takes a little bit of work to get into.
So I've launched into that.
And I am reading James by Percival Everett, which is a huge book this year or last year.
And it's a very entertaining read.
So it's a very good choice for today.
All right.
Reporting in.
More to come later.
Okay, it is day two of our fabulous reading retreat.
Well, day three, sort of.
We got here.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, but oh, is it?
Well, whatever.
It's the next day of our reading retreat, depending on how you count it.
And we've been reading away.
Yes, I finished James, which I loved.
I think, was that a same day book for you?
It was a same day book.
It was.
And then I'm still getting through the book I'm listening to, which is Rivals by Jilly Cooper, which is super entertaining but very long.
Okay.
And which is a reminder that it counts.
Listening counts.
Yes, it does.
And we both brought many more books than we knew we could possibly read, because we knew that the possibility existed that we might have to abandon a book.
Yeah, we might have to stop after 50 pages or so.
So we wanted to bring enough books.
But so far, we have not done that.
Yes.
But yes, PSA friendly reminder, it's okay not to finish a book.
Yeah.
Now I am deep deep, deep into The Good Apprentice by Iris Murdoch, but it is a long book and it is it's not a quick read.
I'm enjoying it tremendously, but it does take a while to read.
And one thing that surprised me I don't know if it surprised you was yesterday.
Even though we spent so much time reading, we did get 10000 steps in.
Yes.
Well, because our breaks have been walking.
Yeah.
Which is another thing we realized having done our, I'll call it our first reading retreat.
Yes, we have.
I feel like we need to do more.
Oh my gosh, absolutely.
Yes, really.
Is that it's great to go someplace where you don't have to drive.
So we are staying in, as we've said, Los Olivos.
And our hotel is like a couple blocks from the main street.
So we've just walked.
We haven't gotten in the car once.
That has been great.
Well, it's good because, A more time for reading because we're not in the car and B because we're doing walking.
And then we did go for a post-breakfast, longer walk each day.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, no long hike or anything like that, but we could.
We still got our exercise in, because I don't know about you Elizabeth, but one thing about reading is I feel like I have to get up and move.
I do get either restless or sleepy, both of which are not good for reading.
And so exercising helps you stay still and enjoy reading that way.
Um, and also, uh, Sometimes a sleepy read can be bad for reading, but good for napping.
Yes.
And I like a good nap, too.
Yes, I've definitely been tempted to sleep the afternoon away.
Yeah, I took my 20-minute nap, which I love to do every day.
I did my watercolor.
Yes, you did.
Yes, I did take a watercolor.
Yes.
All right.
More reading today.
Okay, we are on the highway heading back from Los Olivos back to Encino.
Yes, we had a great reading retreat.
We've decided, Grudge, I think we want to try to do it every year.
So we're calling this reading retreat 2025 because there's going to be 26, 27, etc.
Yeah.
And we were reflecting on like what lessons learned.
And I think one is this was two nights.
I think we could have three nights.
I think we could have had another day of the reading retreat.
That would have been good.
And another thing is we did it on the weekday, which was good for a couple of reasons.
First, it's cheaper because you know heads in beds.
There's less demand for a hotel during the week.
And then also it was quieter, most likely, which was kind of nice for reading, not to feel like it was super crowded.
There were people, but it felt mellow.
Yeah.
Like when we walked in...
Five minutes to go to the little town and get a rest, like, go have lunch.
We didn't have to have a reservation or anything.
We could just, like, walk in.
So everything felt easy.
And, of course, now you can't always pick a weekday.
That's not going to work for everyone.
And we did have to check into work and do work things here and there.
We tried to clear our schedules, but if it's a weekday, it's work.
But still I, And it maybe felt slightly more delightful and delicious knowing that it was a weekday.
That's true.
It was like playing hooky.
Yes, it had a definitely a playing hooky feel.
And then I'm happy because I think I've talked a lot on the podcast about how my stamina for reading actual physical books has gotten down so much since I've gotten into audio books.
And I read James as a physical book and I do feel like I'm starting to build back some of that stamina.
So it was great for that.
Right, to realize.
And I tackle, I think I am now at the end of my Iris Murdoch kick.
I have now read many, many, I think I've read most of the major and some of the minor Iris Murdoch.
And The Good Apprentice is a big one.
And so I was glad that I could, her books take a lot of concentration.
And so I was glad that I could I like picked a book that was really readable, that I like was a page turner, but that took a lot of concentration.
So I felt like that was the right kind of thing.
I think an advantage of having a retreat also is that like it gets you back into the reading mindset.
Not that you and I were necessarily out of the reading mindset, but now I'm like oh, I want to read that book and that book.
And oh, you know, it feels now like re-energized.
I feel re-energized to read a lot.
But the funny thing is now when I tell my friends I'm like oh, I'm going on a reading retreat, or I'm on a reading retreat.
They're all like, oh my gosh, that sounds amazing.
And the funny thing is like, you could do it.
Like if everybody else is doing something else and you're not interested, you can just be like well, you're doing that.
And I'm on a reading retreat.
Or if you're in a place where there's really nothing much to do, call it a reading retreat.
It's an advantage.
It's not a bug.
It's a feature.
Yeah, reframing.
You can reframe almost anything as a reading retreat.
Take a reading retreat to the dentist's office while you're waiting for your kids.
Yes.
Yes.
Right.
Other people are watching soccer practice from the stand, but I'm having a mini retreat in my car.
Yeah.
Well, it was a huge success.
And then we decided that a really good approach is this.
Pick a time when I need to be in Los Angeles anyway, because I have to come now and again and then do it within a driving distance, because then it sort of gave us a date to plan around and then you didn't have to get a plane ticket.
Yeah.
And I kind of had to get a plane ticket anyway.
And there's so much within driving distance of your house.
Yeah, hundreds of places we could go, but but sometimes it's the making all the, it's the decision fatigue.
We could go anywhere, we could go anytime.
It's like someplace, something that can be done at any time is done in no time.
Someplace that can be place at any place.
Then it's like even when we started initially doing our research, we kind of got overwhelmed.
You need something to kind of narrow it down, and this is sort of a, a principle, And now we kind of have a template.
And we can always do it differently if something else presented itself.
But now we have a template.
It'll be easier next time.
Absolutely.
I kind of can't believe we haven't done this before.
Now it seems so obvious.
It now seems like such a part of our lives.
It's like the 25 for 25 list.
It's like, how did we ever not have this?
Exactly.
Just incorporated into our lives.
Okay.
And now when we arrive in Encino, we're going to clear Elizabeth's closet.
Buckle up, Elizabeth.
It's going to happen.
Coming up, our reading retreat is over, but it is time to purge my closet.
But first, this break.
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Okay, we're back with thoughts from purging my closet.
Okay, we are post-closet clearing.
Yes, the capper to a reading retreat was a mad frenzy in my closet for like, what, two hours?
I don't know, but I felt like the clock was ticking.
I'm like, we got to go, go, go, go, go, because I knew you would, at a certain point, lose it.
I get more and more energized as we go, but not you.
Yeah, I flagged.
But the thing is, if it's not your stuff, it's so much less emotionally draining.
That's why I get all the benefit, but you're bearing all the weight.
But we got rid of nine bags of stuff to donate.
So much stuff.
I mean, I was like half of my...
It feels like.
No, not that.
But it was substantial.
And we got rid of a lot of hangers, because you had a lot of nice wooden hangers, but they take up a lot of room.
And then we just put them in a bag to like stick in a closet.
And then also I had a lot of linens like cloth, napkins and tablecloths hanging in the closet, taking up a lot of space.
So I put those in a different place.
You found a lot of things you'd been looking for.
Yes.
That's very gratifying.
I found my favorite cashmere sweater.
Yeah, and some leggings that you really like.
Yes, like three pair of leggings I was looking for.
Yeah, that's always a big boon is that you're like, that's where that thing is.
Yes.
Yeah.
But I think the big thing of why this really was such a massive purge was I just accepted that I was going to be donating really nice things that I loved that just do not fit anymore.
And I think that's why having somebody else there, because I would say it's really good looking and someone else will love it, but it doesn't fit you anymore.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so it is hard to say goodbye to those things.
But like I know that I will dress better because I'll be able to see what's in my closet.
And also I'll then have to wear my nice things.
Yeah.
You keep a bunch of stuff from 10 years ago and then you don't wear that, but then you forget about what you just got.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
One thing that we did not do is we did not do a visual clearing.
Like I like it to get all the drawers closed and get everything up off the floor and get everything nicely organized.
And you put the straps of the purses underneath and we just ran out of time.
I mean, my closet was in a state when you arrived.
Yes, yes.
And that was, I'd already cleared out a couple of bags.
But I got to say, it looked worse.
I said to you, it looks worse in the photograph than it looks in real life.
In the photograph, it looks bananas.
Yeah, I know.
And in real life, it's like, it's a messy closet that's full of stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, I need to do another phase of like making it look, if not pretty, at least, you know, presentable.
Well, here's the hack.
Get stuff off the floor.
Having clear floor space really makes something feel cleaner and tidier.
But another thing for you is you have a lot of very high shelf space, and that's hard to use.
Because what do you put there that you want to have on hand, and yet you don't need to be getting to it all the time?
You found some diabetes stuff that was out of date and that cleared up some space.
It's the wallpaper problem.
Something's been there for so long that you don't even look at it.
Yeah, you don't see it.
An old toothbrush.
If you were like, what is the weirdest, most unnecessary thing?
Yeah.
It was your old toothbrush.
My old electric toothbrush.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
But yeah you really, you it's.
I always think you say that you love it, but you can't actually love it.
I know.
Like you can't actually be enjoying this process.
You're like more, more.
I love this.
It's like cutting a jig.
Yes.
No, I'm like racing back and forth to get bags to put the clothes in.
Here's the trash, like put it in the trash.
Do you need this?
Do you need this?
What is this?
What is this?
It's amazing.
Like.
The last thing is, you did make me, when I had already declared myself done, like three times.
You made me go through white t-shirts, which has to be the worst.
It's sort of the trying on bathing suits of clutter clearing, right?
Yes, yes.
Getting rid of white t-shirts.
Or jeans.
Jeans, I'd already gone through my jeans like three times.
I still donated at least three pairs, maybe four.
But I had culled that somewhat.
But I will say one thing that's good about you is you're very willing to try things on.
You never said like, oh, I'm sure that this fits or I'm sure that I would still wear this.
When in doubt, you tried things on and it really changed your mind.
There were things that you were about ready to give away and you're like wait.
Actually I think that looks really great.
Like that kind of jacket, that blue jacket.
You were like, actually, this really looks good.
And then there were things...
You're like, yeah, it just doesn't fit.
I'm never going to walk out of the house in this because, even though I like it, it just doesn't look good.
It just doesn't look good.
But the fact is now those possessions can go and live a long and happy life with someone who will be delighted to have that black cotton thing. dress with the flounces or whatever where it's it's like nice it just it's not working for you anymore yes so thank you yeah that was but see the thing is therapeutic i feel like i really want to give you that visual um so it all all may not be totally resolved might eke out more closet time before you go back to new york it wouldn't shock me so brace yourself All right.
Well, we're either done or not done.
Not clear.
Okay.
Time will tell.
Onward.
It was so fun to revisit these memories.
I loved our reading retreat.
But that shift at the end was quite dramatic.
We went from, you know, peaceful reading to just relentless purging.
But of course, we had to memorialize that as well.
Yes, it was a frenzy.
It was a closet frenzy, Gretch.
I would say there was a whirling dervish quality to the cleaning of this closet.
Yes, I kept filling bags and then like trotting back and forth.
How many hangers?
We should have counted the hangers.
That would have been a good number to have.
Yes.
Well, thank you again for, you know, making my life lighter.
Well, you know, it's always my favorite thing to do when I visit.
We always tackle something.
Once it was your guest room closet.
You know it's been your office a few times, it's been your closet a few times.
It's always so much fun for me.
Not as much fun for you, but it's valuable for you.
Yes, I always feel better after.
And I have to say, I'm still in the spirit.
I've taken out more things from my closet and added them to the bags.
Excellent.
A couple of swimsuits.
Gold star.
Shorts.
Yes.
So I've done more, Gretch.
You know the weird thing Elizabeth, you know, when I were talking about this, because you were saying you felt this way, and I always feel this way whenever I clear clutter, which is, you end up feeling like you have more.
Yes.
You give away the things that you don't need or don't use, and then you see the things that you actually do use and like.
And because they're more accessible or more visible or they're just sort of more activated in your imagination, because you've actually like, touched them and maybe tried them on or used them, you feel like you have more.
It's just something that I've noticed so often.
It's paradoxical, but it's really striking.
Yes, you're absolutely right.
And Gretchen, I talk about this in a recent episode of the Happier in Hollywood Substack.
In our free newsletter, I talk about this closet cleaning and what it did for me.
I got such a kick out of reading about it Elizabeth, but you noted that you hid a pair of silver vans for me because you didn't want to have to have a conversation about it.
Yes.
I will never push you to give away something that you truly want to keep.
I always accept when you're like, nope, that's not going.
But I understand that maybe you didn't even want to have to have a conversation.
Yes.
Although I'm still trying to get up the impetus to rid myself of those silver vans.
So it still may happen.
But listen, I noticed that your Substack readers are asking you for the after photo because you've posted a before photo, but you and I didn't do the photo finish.
I wasn't there long enough.
If we'd been there long enough, we would have done the thing where you make it pretty.
We didn't get that far.
Yes.
So I still have to do that.
And I am doing some work on it, Gretchen, I promise.
I got to make it pretty.
To get to the photo finish so you get a real proper before and after?
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, Elizabeth, are you feeling happier?
I am feeling happier.
Thank you to Chuck.
If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now is a great time because you can listen completely ad-free.
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Bye, Grudge.
Bye, Elizabeth.
The best time to start a happiness project is 20 years ago.
The second best time is now.
Alyssa, the great thing about you living in Los Angeles is there must be dozens of places within driving distance where we could go for a reading retreat and we could have a completely different kind of atmosphere.
It could be desert.
It could be...
Water.
It could be.
Yeah.
Right.
Oh, my gosh.
Yes.
There are so many places I want to go.
I love the idea of having a reason to visit all these different places, you know, near L.A.
So definitely a yearly activity.
But I do feel like driving distance from LA there's a lot of choices but not as many choices of anywhere in the continental US.
Yes.
Easier to pick.
For sure.
Yeah.
From the Onward Project.
Hi Gretchen, Craig Robinson and my little sister Michelle here.
We host a new podcast called IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson.
We know you're the queen of giving advice, so we wanted to get a few tips from you.
Gretchen, a lot of our listeners are going through some major life changes.
What advice do you have for folks who are trying to stay grounded in the midst of major life transitions?
Craig and Michelle, I am so happy to be talking to you.
Here are a few questions that might help us gain perspective.
So consider questions like this.
What activities take up my time but are not particularly useful or stimulating for me?
Do I spend a lot of time on something that's important to someone else but is not very important to me?
If I could magically change one habit in my life, what would I choose?
And here's a question.
Would I like to have more time in solitude restorative solitude or would I like to have more time with friends?
You know, just thinking about questions like this can help us start to figure out how we might make our lives happier.
With greater self-knowledge, we're better able to make hard decisions that reflect ourselves, our own nature, our own interests, our own values.
In my own case, I have found that the more my life reflects my nature, the happier I get and the more grounded I feel when I'm going through a period of major change or transition.
For more great advice, search for IMO with Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson wherever you get podcasts.
You can listen to Issa Rae on letting go of certain friendships, Kiki Palmer on why disappointment is actually the key to career success, Seth and Lauren Rogan on caring for aging parents, and so many more.
