Hi, Crime Genkies. I'm Ashley Flowers and I'm Britt and really quick before we jump into the episode I actually have an announcement Some of you, a lot of you have been waiting for I've been waiting for it My second novel which is called The Missing Half is now available for pre-order It comes out May 6, 2025 But you can either go to my website Ashley Flowers.com or you
can pre-order it wherever books are sold You won't want to miss it.
I cannot wait. Oh girl. You're getting an advanced coffee And I support a sister.
I'm gonna pre-order. I'm gonna pre-order the audiobook.
I do all of it Thank you. Thank you, but oh, so I'll put a link in the show notes as well But if you guys are looking forward to a new mystery novel for me I am so proud of this one if you loved all good people here You are gonna love this one just as much if not more So with that said I would like to tell you a real story not a fiction story And actually I have two real stories to tell
you today and they have their differences Separated by decades and circumstances, but both have left me with a list of questions that I just can't answer And I keep thinking that maybe someone out there can Yeah, these are the stories of Ben McDaniel and Kenneth play stead It's a hot Friday morning at around 9 a.m.
on August 20th 2010 with a guy named Eduardo who is an employee of this place called Vortex spring it's like a camping RV adventure park kind of thing and it's in the panhandle of Florida But this guy Eduardo he notices something odd there is this pickup truck that he is familiar with that has been sitting in the exact Same spot since Wednesday two days before now the owner
of the pickup truck is 30 year old Ben McDaniel And this guy is a regular he comes in scuba dives in the large natural spring on the property all the time And there is also this underwater cave system within like the spring like it literally just looks like a little base And that you go in but when you go down deep it goes like a cave system it goes down and then like over over
Yeah, and it is straight up terrifying.
I mean, there is a literal sign at the entrance of when it turns into a cave There is a picture of the grim Reaper the words read go no farther.
There is nothing in this cave worth dying for Which like first of all I wouldn't even be in the water but like enough said Now the cave I already told you it's like big but it goes 150 feet down and 1500 feet long We're talking over a quarter of a mile in some areas.
This is where I get like being in this booth makes me like Poster foaming because some areas of this place are so narrow that divers have to wear their air tanks like sideways just to like squeeze through I'm sorry people do this for fun Some people this I mean this is like this is these adrenaline junkies But here's what's concerning because that it's that area this cave
where Eduardo last saw Ben on Wednesday So Eduardo and this buddy were finishing a dive and Ben was actually going down So they're all in the water toward the beginning of the cave where you first go in and Again, Ben being there totally normal Eduardo saw him all the time and he saw him so much because he was literally taking a sabbatical at the time focusing specifically
on diving like he wanted to become and it's all he was doing yeah So like even him seeing the truck the second day Eduardo was like oh, yeah, no big deal But it being in the exact same spot not moved for two days Like that's when he gets concerned especially because of where he left Ben in the cave Mm-hmm and especially because of how he got into the cave Because you see the cave
is actually blocked off by this gate because it's so dangerous Like not anyone can just go in there You're supposed to have a special certification and you have to actually show that certification to the vortex spring Dive shop and they have to give you a physical key to unlock the gate so you can access it Which like I approve of all of this yeah, otherwise.
It's like a liability But here's the thing Ben didn't have that certification and he didn't have much experience cave diving I mean he had been scuba diving since he was 14 But he was taking a lot of lessons kind of really fast to get himself up to speed and was doing this like a little bit Self taught so he didn't have what he needed How did he get in the cave then so here's
the thing Eduardo knew that Ben used to like either Jimmy the lock or he would like Scoot under it or whatever like he could tell that it had been messed with before and like he knew Ben was doing stuff He wasn't technically certified for so that Wednesday when he went down there and he saw Ben He like originally swam past him and then he's like, you know what?
I bet that's what he's doing.
I bet he's gonna go past there and it's like seven o'clock at night He's like everyone's about to leave if something were to happen.
It's not he's gonna pass it one else.
No one's gonna be here So Eduardo actually turned around and unlocked it and let him in the cave So he was thinking that Maybe this was like lowering the risk like oh, I don't want him getting stuck that like if I can just let him in You know that'll help the chances or whatever.
Yeah, and like you said he's been Messing with the lock.
He's been getting through.
He's been practicing secretly on the slide like yeah I could see where it seems very harmless and he knows that Ben has like gone past it before right But again knowing now he let him in this area that he wasn't certified for that that's where he's last seen Eduardo is super concerned and so he notifies the manager who calls the police and Everyone's kind of thinking
that Ben is in this cave.
I mean just based on the circumstances But if he is police need to know with a hundred percent certainty So Eduardo and several other divers from the area volunteered to go into the cave and start looking for him So was this like a rescue mission or more of a Recovery mission like could Ben still be alive in this cave?
I I don't know I'm not like an expert enough, but my guess is I don't think he's gonna have enough oxygen two days later Especially when you do a dive like that from everything I've read specific to this case like you bring extra tanks for yourself Like on the way up mostly for like decompressing and stuff like that But I don't think anyone thinks that if he's down there
And I also don't think there's any like nooks and crannies where he could like find an air pocket right?
This is so different than a lot of other open water diving or even like lost in the woods cases We've covered right you can't just find a cave and hold up and eat berries like this is completely different completely And in an episode of disappeared I mean they described this cave as like one way in one way out So it's not like he's even like coming out the other end.
So we're talking recovery most likely Mm-hmm.
And by the way, this wouldn't have even been the first time There is a total of six people who at this point in time had died in vortex springs like obviously not all the same time But like over the years and the interesting part about that is all of those bodies had been found so Wherever Ben is down there, they should be able to find him Now as the diverts descend into the water
the sheriff's deputies search Ben's truck and inside they find his cell phone They find his wallet got his driver's license cash somewhere between like I've seen six hundred eighty dollars I've seen eleven hundred dollars So by all appearances it looks to the sheriff deputies that Ben had every intention to return which is supports the idea that something happened
to Ben in that cave Mm-hmm.
Well now they have to go relate this information to Ben's parent who live in Memphis, Tennessee And this is extraordinarily devastating news for them not just because like their son is missing in a cave But they've actually already lost one son just two years prior.
It was Ben's younger brother Paul who passed away And now they're being told by authorities that Ben most likely drowned in vortex springs Now at the time Ben was staying with his dog Spooner at their Santa Rosa Beach, Florida condo And I told you he was kind of on this like sabbatical.
He went there as a little bit of like a life-free set His marriage had failed this construction company that he owned went out of business So he's hoping that he's gonna start over he was gonna become a dive instructor But now that dream looks like it has ended in tragedy Because back at vortex some of the divers are coming up with evidence that Ben did go down but never
came back up According to that disappeared episode three decompression tanks are brought to the surface and they have Ben's name on them And I kind of talked about this a little bit But the divers use these decompression tanks after a deep dive to get rid of toxic levels of nitrogen that actually build up in the body So basically you don't use them as you come up you
get really sick It's called DCS or the Ben's is what was kind of known as And I can't tell you how much time I spent on like this part of this story because I am so far from being a professional diver So please be kind if I'm not spot on I tried to piece together as much as I could But the point is if these tanks are still at the bottom it means that Ben never decompressed like
they were never used Right essentially and there's this documentary called Ben's vortex and it Claims because this is the other weird parts like where exactly there found doesn't totally add up and what's in them doesn't totally add up One of the tanks is found 200 feet inside the cave But then the other two are found kind of together like in 25 feet of water And this is problematic
because normally divers leave those tanks like as breadcrumbs along you need a little bit And then you need more like a little trail.
Yeah, you don't necessarily cluster them together One journalist Cindy wolf she did an article for the commercial appeal and she put it as like life-saving breadcrumbs basically So what you're saying is like where they are Doesn't even make sense for what he was doing Exactly and mostly what doesn't make sense are the two that are like close to the top like by the time
you're there You don't that was kind of gonna be my next question like they're probably also not just Like distance across if that makes sense, but distance up.
Yes, you're decompressing at different points of depth Yeah, and even when they find them There are weird things like there's things that should be on them that are missing like valves handles and regulators Also the one found in the cave was full, but the ones close up were like not totally full And there is this one person who was on Reddit who did this like six-part
series and this person it seemed like they were a diver themselves and was like giving a ton of details So like caveat this is Reddit, but this is where I felt like I finally got my head wrapped around the weirdness of this whole thing But he was saying that and he had some pictures to prove it to so I don't know where he got those from but like The one that was in the cave 200
feet away They all had Ben's name on it, but they were like written completely differently The two that were together in the strangest place were written one way and they looked older I believe he said older and then the other one Ben's name was written in a completely different place in like different letters So it was just like a lot of strange They weren't even done
at the same time Which again you can buy tanks at different times you got an old and you got a new one like whatever But you're missing pieces like none of it fits right every part you pick apart There's something weird with these tanks Okay, but you said he wasn't the most experienced cave diver Like that is true all this be chalked up to like Not quite knowing all the tricks
of the trade or anything like that I think it's a little bit possible again the old tanks new tanks valve.
I don't know I think it's a little strange.
I feel like if you've done Even a basic amount of diving you understand to have them spread out and again He had been open water diving since he was 14.
Mm-hmm. I don't know what it means But I think it could mean a number of things and we can kind of discuss What exactly later, but it's just all strange So they're thinking he's down there, but all law enforcement can do now is wait for answers as these rescue divers go One deeper than the last exploring every nook and cranny and corner as they go through And it's worth
noting that Ben is a big dude.
He's over six feet tall 200 pounds not someone that would be easily missed or could just like Squirrel away But day after day they don't see any sign of him But again, there's no reason to think that Ben can't be found like the others It's just gonna take some time or the right person Because Monday there is some hope in the form of a guy named Ed Sorenson who's like the areas
Michael Jordan for underwater cave rescue and recovery His wife had actually text him while he was out of town on another diving trip And she's like letting him know what's happening kind of like where they are in their backyard And once he gets back home Ed agrees to go help search for Ben And like this guy is like if he can't find him then isn't out there like he's not there
And some of Ed's friends are telling him not to do this even because they even they think it's too dangerous They're like hey if he wasn't initially found like immediately That means he's probably somewhere so far in so far in and and obviously he's succumbed to it.
You shouldn't do this But it sounds like Ed ignores those worries and he goes in anyway And I have no idea how long this guy is down there But when he comes back up Ed delivers some startling news Ed says that he doesn't think Ben is in the cave Now of course everyone on the shore is puzzled by this news But Ed is able to back up his story.
He says he searched every crevice and he went about 1700 feet in this is 200 feet further than was even mapped on the cave Right and he said the whole way there's no sign of Ben and not just his body But he's like listen Ben is a bigger guy than I am so if he made it as far as I did there should be signs of it There should be marks from his helmet to disruption Mark's in the tanks
like because it's all like limestone around there He's like you would see that you'd see it in the clay and Even if you can't see the marks There's something else he says you know good old mother nature like if again Ben is not alive down there If Ben is down there he is dead his body is decaying you Should be seeing all of these Scavenger and he'll exactly in there's none
of that Just to be safe though because he is getting a lot of resistance from people who are like We get what you're saying but he has to be so He even goes back a couple of days later and does another search just to be a zillion percent short But after his final dive he tells authorities that they have to look elsewhere for Ben Dude has been recovering bodies from caves
for over a decade by this point and Ben is the first Person that he can't locate and to Ed that means he is not there exactly But Ben's family still is convinced he is in there.
So the search presses on but over 36 days 16 different divers search that cave for Ben and they find nothing and all of these are experienced divers It's not a bunch of amateurs down there just like you throw in their hat in the ring Now according to a Tampa Bay Times article there was one person who thought that it could be possible that Ben's body Was maybe naturally
flushed out or washed out of the cave and then just ended up somewhere else Because I mean again we say like there's no other way out, but like you truly don't know where an underground cave goes Right, there's no way out listed on the current map that they have well And they didn't even map the whole thing right they mapped 1500 feet and Ed went 1700 feet right So they
don't know again, maybe there's something they didn't see so the sheriff's department even sends a helicopter They're like searching nearby swamps air land and see I mean nothing is found anywhere Did anyone ever look at Eduardo?
Like could he be lying? All we have are his words and these tanks with Ben's name on it, but they aren't where they're supposed to be So we have his word, but the thing is it's actually not just his word because he was with someone else that day him and a friend We're diving He was the only one that went back to unlock the gate from what I understand but as other person would have seen
Yeah, this other guy is James Chuck So technically two people saw Ben and it's unclear when but I do know that police at least check this out They have the guys take polygraphs both of them pass And The one thing I keep coming back to is Eduardo admitted to opening that gate which he wasn't supposed to do So I feel like he's being overly honest like if he did something like
he could have kept that to himself He didn't need to say that and everyone would have been like oh Ben didn't have a certification.
He couldn't even gotten there So it seems like he's being really forthcoming So this is what Ben's family and the authorities are dealing with a puzzle that seems to be missing a piece some kind of evidence that Ben is in the cave or Not in the cave and like everyone just keeps going back and forth back and forth and it doesn't get any better because they ended bringing
cadaver dogs out And I know that they get some kind of decompet Indicating that there could be a body in the water specifically But here's the thing The county health department is actually testing the water They do this a couple of times and they say they can tell by the bacteria in the water if there's any sort of decomposition going on And when they're doing their
testing now they are not seeing any signs of it.
So Again, you got decompe you got no bacteria Well, and like also it's an ocean.
I feel like the dogs hang on decompe at an ocean.
That's true I don't know pretty likely to me.
I don't know Well authorities do get more help when in October The family hires this guy named Steve King Now Steve is a special get because he is actually the one who originally mapped out the cave back in 2003 According to that Tampa Bay Times piece Steve spent over a hundred hours doing this So to say that he knows this cave is almost a gross understatement So Steve
makes 1234567 dives looking for Ben and just like the others he finds No surprise here Nothing if Ben is in this cave.
He doesn't know where he could be.
I mean I'm kind of siding with edit this point like it's because Ben's not in the cave Mm-hmm And according to that disappeared episode like by this time it's sort of the consensus Among the diving community and actually a few people start thinking that this whole thing is some kind of hoax Something that was set up by Ben and that Maybe he's off on a beach somewhere like
he just ran away from his life.
What makes them come to that conclusion Well, I mean, I think they point to like the tanks earlier like again.
They didn't make sense.
So you wonder Like where they staged.
Mm-hmm. They also point to a map of Ben's that is found Because I guess like He made this map of like his own travels within that cave But the drawings or like the notations on them don't actually match what's there And so people were wondering Pat he'd been faking it and so that people thought that's where he would be and that there was some kind of history of him going
So like where he said he was wasn't part of the cave or wasn't like mapped the way yeah Should have been and I don't know like I don't have any context for like is this dude just bad at maps I couldn't draw a map fair or is there something fishy with this just like there's something fishy with the tanks And the thing that they often point back to as well Is that Ben could have had
some reasons for wanting to disappear He did getting trouble with the law in the past things like drug possession theft and assault doesn't sound like he went to jail for any of those though But the bigger more current red flag is Ben's finances at the time So Ben owed almost 50,000 dollars to the IRS almost $1,200 and unpaid state taxes And after his construction company
went out of business Ben got into a real estate venture It sounds like after he owed a bunch of money so he has to sell his house to pay off half a million dollars of debt Yeah, and it sounds like over the last few years He was living off a $200,000 mortgage that he took out against a house that his grandfather had sold him for $10 So his financial burden was real But to Ben's
family, they're like we felt like he was climbing out of that hole a little bit And more than anything the thing that they point to as everyone's pointing to these things they're like listen We already lost one son and it's not their disbelief But they're like Ben wouldn't do that right Ben saw how hard that was on them There's no way they believe that he would put them
through that again not intentionally And for all of our profit-loving people out there Spooner Spooner like he loved his dog and Spooner was left at home often he would take him like sometimes And if you know if it's not too hot leave him in the car whatever Hmm he knew that this was gonna be a long dive he left Spooner at home So for days Spooner didn't get to go out he didn't
have food he'd never water and they're like he's not just gonna Abandoned his dog who knows where someone would have found him Now just to be safe police check Ben's bank and phone records for any indication that something is off But they don't find anything The only thing they find when they're really like getting into his history is they find out in that Ben's vortex
documentary There was this one point where he was lying so he was married at one point that that marriage had dissolved But while he was married he had this fake Facebook account He was flirting with other women making up lies that he was a model and things like that So not not just cheating but there's like this like history of lying and They say again, we had nothing
in the phone records whatever But they say this could be proof that Ben could be deceptive and even assume another identity Okay I personally am gonna need a little bit more than Ben was catfishing some people maybe to prove that This whole thing is an elaborate hoax.
He set up and he's off I don't like sipping my ties and Parasailing in the Caribbean or something like yeah the legal financial issues maybe I agree I feel like there's so much context specifically this case that like I'm missing And Ben Ben did have a girlfriend at this time too who had really been there for him So that's something else that his family points to have like
okay. He did this to everyone like They just despite the lies in the past despite whatever they just didn't feel like it was in his character But here's the other thing that I'll say is that all the reasons police point to of why he might have abandoned his life and started one over They also say listen, maybe he didn't do all that maybe he was suffering in a different
way and maybe he did this taking his own life I mean, yeah when you don't have a body you don't have really any evidence anything is an option, right like Anything gets picked apart anything can point to almost anything because you just don't have enough there Which is why then this is where people spiral and they talk about all the things that don't make sense They
talk about the tanks were they staged were they staged by Ben were they's Ben's exactly Now even though police are thinking Whatever it is that they're thinking like it doesn't mean Ben's parents just give up looking for answers on their own Months go by with no new information and then according to an article in Dothan Eagle by Morgan Carlson in February of 2011
the family offers a $10,000 reward for information that leads to the recovery of Ben's body and This sounds good.
We see this a lot with families, but in this case It might not actually be the best thing to do and this actually really upsets people like Ed Sorensen Because the thought is that this reward could lead someone To put themselves in danger like Ben didn't have the right certification Is someone could be so motivated by money that they put themselves in a situation they
normally wouldn't or shouldn't It's one thing to ask people who are in this community familiar with the situation But to ask the general public To do this is dangerous.
I get that and especially when you're asking them to go to a place where Someone probably died.
Mm-hmm. Like it's very scary.
We know six people have died in the past right But they're hoping they don't necessarily back down right away his family They're hoping it gets someone's attention.
They're desperate like families in this situation are desperate And it actually does get someone's attention a woman named Jill Heinerth sees this reward She's actually the one who makes the documentary eventually called Ben's vortex Jill is one of the top female cave divers in the world and when she hears about this she reaches out to Ben's family And like many
in the diving community she and her husband who she makes documentaries with had been following the story online And her goal here is just to inform the family explain the risks that these rescue divers face by offering this reward And eventually she agrees to document the cave angle look for Ben herself hoping that this is gonna bring them some kind of closure And
one of the things that she points out to the family She explains to them that there are areas in which a diver or cases I guess in which a diver can panic and like when that happens There's like this whole phenomenon where they actually like burrow themselves into an area Which makes it almost like impossible to reach or even find them According to that disappeared
episode this actually happened to a friend of Jill's and it took Eight months to find her friend so it's not like you just like find a corner and like sit down you I mean Somehow they like get into these tiny areas So Jill goes to the cave she dives she films the whole thing they have footage of her in this cave I like I had to stop a couple of times.
I don't consider myself a super claustrophobic person But seeing that footage Like I There are some places I saw this like map that was drawn.
There were some places where it was like Eight inches and I'm like pretty sure I can't fit through eight inches.
No Like you'd have to put my whole body in a sausage casing Which I guess it's like a wetsuit, but I mean it like I cannot believe people do this like you said earlier for fun Like it is wild to me and in this documentary she's like squeezing into spaces Oh, teeny tiny she does it though.
She comes back up and she agrees with all of the other divers Ben Is not in that cave.
I mean that's what I've been saying The one thing though she does find something interesting at the very end of the cave She finds a folding shovel Which according to the disappeared episode Ben often took something similar on his dives So the thinking originally was like oh he could have used this to dig as he's like checking out different sections of the cave or whatever
But why didn't any of the other divers find it That is the question right and I actually think that there's a good answer Though it comes from the comment section in something like I haven't actually seen this in a big documentary Whatever but one time Ben's dad actually posted a comment on a scuba blog And he said that the shovel that was found belonged to Steve King
So it sounds like it was not Ben's and it would explain why no one else found it because if Steve's the one that leaves it there It's not there until Jill goes like and he's like one of the last people to go down and dive and look for him And that would make a lot of sense like Steve went after Ed after the others.
It wouldn't have been there I don't know okay But we know that he did dive with a tool like this like This shovel doesn't belong to Ben, but he could have been digging.
He could have gone further He could have gotten him stuck.
I agree and again knowing that he is Specifically digging.
I'm like oh then he like Definitely could have gotten himself in a bad situation But then I go back to what even Ed said early on where he's like But we'd see evidence of that like where is the evidence in the clay in the limestone?
Where are the fish that are attracted to decay?
Why aren't we seeing any of those signs?
Yeah, like we've got 200 feet into the cave is the last tank that's found and We only know that because it's got Ben's name on it Not like you know, we've got his DNA on or something like that after that.
There's no sign of Ben anywhere So yes, he could have dug, but I don't know that it means that he did So was this the last time that anyone at like Jill Steve Ed's level of experience Dived yeah for him.
Yeah, I think at least from what I found I think this was the last like official dive But that's not to say other people weren't looking because in March of 2012 Ed's worst fears come true when the family offered that reward because there is this 43 year old diver named Larry Higgandbotham Who is found dead in the vortex cave Now his family claims that he wasn't looking
for Ben He was just diving but his diving friends seem to indicate that maybe he was Or maybe it was a little bit of both and the friends actually point to a couple of reasons why they think that apparently Larry was following Ben's story online Which we know a lot of the diving community was and The difference is though he was actually talking about finding Ben He talked
about the reward money which by the way not only did they like keep the reward out They actually upped it and so by that point it was like $30,000 and they say that would have been really tempting for Larry Now Ed Sorensen is actually the one who had to go in and retrieve Larry's body And he says he was found next to a shovel indicating that he might have been digging or trying
to access a tight area of the cave So I don't know at the end of the day.
I don't know if Larry is looking for Ben I don't know if Larry is just diving but guess what Larry's found Right Right.
Yeah, just like everyone else Ed has looked for it in his searches Everyone else in the cave that we know about and the one thing that comes from Larry's death is It is at that point that the family finally pulls the reward money.
They they pull at the following month Which I doubt is a coincidence Now also in March of 2012 there is what sounds like the family's last coordinated search for Ben But this time it's not in the water.
They actually bring dogs out to search the areas around the spring Is there any specific reason they're looking at the property versus the water now?
So at this time. Yeah, it sounds like it At the time that Ben disappeared the owner of vortex spring was in trouble for Accusing an employee of stealing like $30,000 you don't get in trouble for his accusing someone he beat the guy with a baseball bat So oh that's something you don't see every day and when they find out about they're like oh huh Maybe this guy who owns
this place where someone at missing maybe we should talk to him look at him.
Yeah But the problem is at this time that they finally becomes suspicious of him This guy's already dead so they go search the place with cadaver dogs in 2012 But he died in December of 2011 in some kind of accident where he had fallen and hit his head So if he knew something like there's no way to know now right The family even tried hiring a private detective at one point
to look further into that guy even into other vortex employees But doesn't sound like that went anywhere either much like the search of the property because even when the dogs finished They don't find anything and Ben's parents are obviously disappointed But according to another Tampa Bay Times article before they leave they give Eduardo this engraved piece
of granite And he agrees to dive down the following day to place it in the cave And Ben's parents really can't do more than they've already done So I feel like foul play has to be involved in some way But the tanks are they're sure but like could they have been planted could someone have put them there like it doesn't why they're written differently Was one of it not in his handwriting
it just seems so elaborate and there's like doesn't seem like there's any reason because They never found anything that pointed to somebody who had it out for Ben who wanted to harm Ben There's no evidence of foul play, but there's no evidence of not foul play The one thing I'll say we never get cameras According to a Tampa Bay Times article the vortex area had a camera,
but there's Basically nothing shady seen I feel like obviously if we had a video if I'm going in and ever coming out this would be a lot easier So I have a feeling it's not exactly trained where I mean me what it we've had cases that we followed closely where people go into a part and never come out on video camera Oh, yeah, I'm freaking stop.
I can't wait that case. That's a that's a no throwback, but Here's the thing If someone did something to Ben they didn't hide his body in the cave Where is he where is his scuba equipment like even if there is no why because sometimes there is no good why Right like honestly this case Feels like this is where we'll stay unless something is uncovered something compelling
and new Anything yeah, and here's a thing even after all of this there is Some belief by some people that Ben is still in that cave.
I mean there's a tight section at the end of the cave known as a restriction That maybe Ben got through I mean some divers think it's possible But there are other divers who don't even think that that's possible because of the proper training that Ben lacked Like they're like he couldn't have gotten that far like almost like he wouldn't have even known what to do if he
had gotten that far It seems like that's what they're saying But if Ben somehow did get through he could be exactly where this all started in that cave But too far to reach and that's what's so heartbreaking for Ben's family especially his parents It makes it almost impossible for them to get closure They have this suitcase that's filled with mementos and notes for Ben
that's buried near his brother Paul And it appears that Ben's parents had been leading a grief class at their church when we kind of looked into them Because now they've lost two children and it gave them an understanding of grief that most people can't even fathom If anyone has any information about the whereabouts of Ben McDaniel Please contact the Holmes County
Sheriff's Office at 850-547-3681 Before we get into the next story I want to give you a heads up that there are like Like a hundred different versions of how this story starts particularly when everything goes down Because I mean I'm not kidding just about every single article I could find says something completely different Which is like you know old reporting.
I don't know but that being said I'm going to stick to the timeline that appears in a Shaboygan press article from 1978 Because that's the one that contains court testimony So let's rewind to November 16th 1971 in Milwaukee, Wisconsin Priscilla Place said is getting a little worried about her 48-year-old husband Kenneth They're supposed to meet up at like 1230
but it's 215 now and Kenneth is just fully MIA Making her extra uneasy is the fact that they're not home home is over an hour away and new whole steam Wisconsin They're just here in Milwaukee to visit their daughter and for Kenneth to like do some business stuff They had gotten to town that day at around 11 and the plan was for Kenneth to drop Priscilla off at the department
store He's gonna go off do whatever he had to do and then they meet back up But here she is like waiting and waiting stranded because by the way, he's also her ride So after almost two hours of this Priscilla finds a phone and calls her 22-year-old daughter Donna like Hey, have you heard from your dad and Donna says yeah actually he called me about like 1115 Nothing wild
just basically confirmed that he was gonna pick her up at some point and then after they were gonna go buy her a car Now I'm not sure if he said when he was gonna pick her up But at 1 p.m She said that she'd actually noticed a car out near her apartment building that actually looked like her dad's like it registered for a second But no one had come to her door So she kind of just
wrote it off assumed it was not his just looked like his Mm-hmm didn't even give it a second look But now that mom's calling she's like okay, I'm gonna go take another peek I'm gonna see if that car still out there But again, I'm not even thinking that it would be But she actually goes out it is there she takes a look up close at this car And she realizes it is a hundred percent
her dad's Not just one that looks like it right say model close whatever it is the car But he's not in it And I can imagine her worry only grows when she sees the state that it's in like the windows are rolled down And the contents of the glove box are Like all over the front seat like someone had hastily gone through it And what's right outside the car is even more concerning
because laying between the car and the curb is her dad's hat Is there any sign of like a physical struggle like no people it looks like the stuff was taken out but there's no like The blood I mean, I don't know what else we would expect to see like a bent or broken mirror Or nothing like that has at least been reported But even seeing the car like it is and him being gone for so long
It's enough to make Donna and Priscilla call the police and thankfully it seems like they take Kenneth's disappearance Seriously from the get go So Priscilla and Donna fill them in on that warnings events including I'm assuming what business he was there on Which you're gonna I'm telling you get sick of me saying this But like I don't know what that was I don't know
what he was there to do or who he was there to meet Do we even know what he did for work at least I know he was an attorney and based on what little context I have I think this is probably what brought him to Milwaukee But I also know that he was the executive secretary of the national board of fur farm Organizations and he was a trustee for a family trust so Again, I'm guessing
he's there for work work with as an attorney, but like dude's got a lot going on He could just be taking other meetings in Milwaukee right Anyway, investigators take a look at the car there on the curb and despite the glove box clearly having been rife Through it doesn't appear anything's been stolen According to an article from the Milwaukee journal there were even
some gifts that Kenneth and Priscilla had purchased that are like still sitting Undisturbed in the back seat what about like keys car keys I'm assuming he had a wallet I assume that too, but there's no reporting on it like there's nothing that mentions the keys or the wallet I did find several articles that mentioned some money that Kenneth had withdrawn He was planning
on using it for Donna's car.
It was like 300 bucks or something like that Which I like I weigh of my hand, but I mean in today's money.
That's like $2,700 But we're in the early 70s.
He said there's no security cameras.
No, there's nothing capturing Mm-hmm if he was driving the car if he walked away from the car.
Nope. There's no person there Cool, we got nothing to work with or if they had anything they've never talked about it But I think just based on the timeline your assumptions are probably right But in any case, I do know police are able to put together a loose sort of timeline for the time between when Kenneth talked to Donna at 11-15 And when she noticed his car at one
because I think the assumption is like Priscilla notices at 2-15 Mm-hmm something happened before one like the car's probably just been sitting there for the last hour right?
10 minutes So anyways what we know between 11-15 and one is that at some point in that hour 45 minutes He had gone to a grocery store.
He'd gotten changed for a five dollar bill And according to that same Milwaukee journal article that I mentioned He also got coffee at a nearby diner with an attorney friend of his And this coffee is important because even though I can't find anything about the exact time that this happened He left that coffee meeting saying that he was gonna go get Donna And I think
it's safe to assume that he made it to Donna's place Because like what are the odds of someone taking him in his car and like dumping the car at his daughter's place?
I had that same thought like I don't think that anyone even would like force him to drive there Like if you're gonna do something this guy You don't want to do it in front of his daughter's apartment who's like waiting for him And how would you know where his daughter lives?
It's not even where he like they don't even live in the same city right It seems like somebody who either intercepted him there or followed him there Especially knowing that his we've got his hat like right outside It feels like he got out of the car and that's when something happened right So this area of Milwaukee is it a pretty busy area like could someone have seen
what had happened like a neighbor So I obviously don't know 71 I looked on Google Maps for it today.
It's a pretty residential area.
There's like houses apartment buildings Again, I have to assume a lot's changed and I wanted to say 30 years because I'm always stuck in 2050 years But I get the sense from the reporting that at the time it was pretty similar back then so You would think that Someone would have seen something this isn't happening in the middle of a cornfield If there was a struggle if there
was something weird that was going on Yeah, and I know a detective search the neighborhood which I assume includes talking to neighbors But if they got any good intel they haven't shared that with the media in all of these years But no matter how his car got there or who put it there the search for Kenneth is on and over the following few days detectives check bus stations
train stations airports.
They're looking for any sign of him But they repeatedly come up empty are they thinking that he left on his own?
I don't see them saying that out right in the reporting but airports bus stations train stations Yes, I understand I know where you're asking the question.
I think they're covering all of their bases or It is possible.
They think that's the most likely scenario and they're just kind of like I don't know They don't want to put all their eggs in one bag that you have to check those things off right like Is it a to-do thing to make sure it was done?
Is it something they're actually falling?
I don't know But if that is their theory that he was like high-telling it out of there They're not getting proven right.
They can't find any sign of him just up and leaving So pretty much every option for what happened is still on the table So I think they can rule out that that didn't happen But they can't say it did But the idea that he just left doesn't work for his family He and Priscilla have six kids and Priscilla insists that they have a good relationship It truly seems like the whole
thing for them is just this huge shock when he goes missing like they never saw it coming Now buy four days later on November 20th police are pretty confident in Their theory.
This is the first time they start to say it out loud But they don't say like he let they just say we don't think foul play was involved Okay, what do they know that we don't know?
I don't know if they're just going with what they don't have which is like they don't have evidence of a crime They just have a car that was abandoned They don't tell us what they have or don't have at that point But I mean again, we know no signs of a struggle.
They're saying that no blood nothing So I think him leaving on his own is the only thing that makes sense to police at that time So over the next month the search for him sort of continues Although it appears to be a little lackluster and according to the Shaboykin press There's one sighting that's thought to be Kenneth at a grocery store But it turns out not to be him.
So the truth is he just Vanished one random day or seemingly no reason But as we know people don't just up and disappear.
There's always a reason All right, so some context first remember how I said Kenneth was a trustee for a family trust Well, it's not his families This trust was established by a man named Irwin Hughes before he died and it's now managed by Kenneth and Irwin's wife as Stell and the estate within the trust is valued at over half a million dollars quick calculation to
2024 money Which is like four million dollars?
Anyway since Kenneth is missing a new trustee gets appointed But as part of this process they do an audit of the trust And that's not like there are not like us thinking something happened.
This is just like standard procedure Right, and they're not even really looking for anything But they find a whole lot of something The audit shows that Kenneth had written numerous checks to himself from January 1969 Right up through October of 1971 the very month that he went missing Now the checks varied in amount, but in total there was $65,162 missing Again,
perspective here that is over half a million dollars.
Oh in today's money. That's a lot.
Yeah And there is no legit reason under the sun for him to be writing these checks to himself But the stranger thing is he shouldn't have actually even been able to do it Before any money is taken out there's actually two different people who were supposed to sign something But as they're doing this audit they find out that that just didn't happen for some reason Now
when they look closer some of the checks were made out directly to Kenneth himself But some were made to accounts associated with an account that he shared with a former law partner And then at least one check is made to his office account And this new trustee finds that they fit this pattern So first Kenneth would take the money out of the trust savings account Put
it into the trust checking account and then he'd write himself a check So he's like moving this money all over the place And no one noticed that the money was missing until now Mm-hmm.
A stell said she's the only other person who was like on it at the time Mm-hmm.
And she explained it in article by Betty Schilling for the Shaboykin press that her late husband had been the one who was familiar with all of their finances So when he died she didn't really know What to do she didn't really know how much was in there Which she was on the accounts because she was the wife and that was really right But she never dealt with the money which by the way
ladies like I'm no like mathematician But you got to like know your family finances you cannot leave that into anyone's hands and men the same thing like both People in a relationship should have a sense of the finances.
I've seen the effort I have seen this like I have a family member with this went super south like you don't want to be caught in that So that's my PSA for today But anyways a stell didn't know what was going on Which is why she actually brought in Kenneth to like help her But looking back now again hindsight's 2020 as stell says that there were definitely red flags For instance
whenever she did try to talk to Kenneth about the account He was very dodgy and he would talk around questions that she had and just Generally wasn't super forthcoming with information which is not what you want from somebody handling your finances Right did anyone else know that these checks were being written?
Well, yes One of Kenneth's former legal secretaries was actually one of the ones who wrote the checks under Kenneth's Instruction and when asked about it she says that his explanation was that the funds were an advancement on trustees fees And then another former legal secretary had a similar story that checks She wrote were supposed to be for Kenneth's services
as a trustee So is all this money that he took from the trust still sitting in his account?
I know I'm like smiling because that's the million dollar question like you nail on the head half a million dollar and today is money question And I don't know Because to meet like whether it is or isn't is the money there or is it not there is like if it's not there and Kenneth's not there What are the odds that they're together?
Yeah, or I mean he could have been into something I don't know if the money's all sitting there though.
I think it's like a completely different than what but then what also Why would you take money just let it sit there right something is up and I assume The people in charge of this case know the answers to that.
I assume they know Where the money was going they checked bank accounts or at least they know it's not there anymore But there's no reporting on specifics of what they do track down if they find the money Or if it's as much of a ghost as Kenneth seems to be Literally the only mention of this even comes from Ken's son all the way in 1992 and he doesn't say anything about where it
went or at least that part didn't get published Which like but again like if I'm writing the article that's like right.
That's what I'm putting in So Ken is in some pretty hot water when all of this gets found out and It gets even more tumultuous on January 4th 1972 when Ken is charged with abandonment after his wife Priscilla files a complaint against him According to another Shaboy again press article in that complaint She says that Kenneth has quote willfully failed to support
his family. Wait, so they're on board with this theory now I actually don't know I'm not even entirely sure why Priscilla filed the complaint in the first place One of the things that I wonder again There's so much like context we never get so much backstory that you don't get in like these little newspaper clipping And also I'm also thinking like the cultural differences
between Now and 1971 I was gonna say 1972 like girl We couldn't even have like a credit card like bank accounts like everything had to be in our husbands name back then So I had the same thought I'm like I wonder if she's got six kids if this was a financial Yeah, like complaint and this would help her Find a way to support her family now that they didn't have a breadwinner
right because I don't know that she could get him declared dead It hasn't been long enough, but if she can be like he abandoned our family and we need some support That could be a very viable reason she did that that maybe doesn't align with the theory.
She has what really happened I don't know The next thing in this case that I can put together is that 10 days after that So this would have been January 14 more charges get piled on so Kenneth gets charged with a whopping 26 counts of theft for the missing trust money So dude by this point is a very wanted man and the search for him is on but in a very different way at this point
right And by April 6th of 1973 so Fast forward It's a little under a year and a half since he disappeared That is when a federal fugitive warrant is issued for Kenneth I don't know that at first.
They're waiting like oh, he can't stay hidden for long Let's like see if he resources it out.
Yeah, or if something else happens But by this point, they're like we're coming for you in that warrant.
They claim that Ken's still alive And that he's been evading law enforcement this whole time But you're something new It turns out this isn't just a theory anymore.
They say All of a sudden they've been able to track some of his movements Movements like he's alive moving about what so at some point they say he went to Milford Connecticut, which is halfway across the country and then sometime after that He may have gone to Tampa, Florida and was looking for someone to live with But they say when they went looking for him there he
was nowhere to be found How are they even finding this guy?
I want to say there were no paper trails But that's literally all they had was paper.
It's not digital. I know They the way they put this out makes them seem really confident in this and when I first read it I'm like oh, they're like they're hot on his trail.
They know where he is But the more I dug in it kind of seems like it all comes back to a single ad that was placed in a Tampa newspaper One that ran February 5th 8th 9th and 10th of 1973 And this also might have been why they ended up putting out but like warrant They get word of this newspaper.
They're like oh, this man's alive.
We're coming for you Now I have an image of the ad in if you're listening any app or on the blog post for this episode But the ad is Someone in like the classified who is seeking a roommate and it has Kenneth name on it here.
I'll give it to you Oh, you mean like his full name.
I was thinking it just says no Ken or Kenneth it says I know Ken wasted Hang on I'll get there, but yeah, it's yes How did they even find this I had the same question because I'm like again?
We do not have the internet You get Google his name and an ad pop up, but luckily there was someone it was like a former client of Ken's who somehow sought they must have been in Tampa Saw his name.
No, he's a missing person and they brought it forward to police and then this is what led them to Connecticut That's when I'm thinking But there's just so much weird about it because It says this person's looking for a roommate But they asked that anyone who wants to like have correspondence or is interested Yeah, yet that it all be sent back to a Connecticut address,
but it's in a Tampa paper newspaper.
Yeah, so I'm like Why are you sending that there?
Are you not there yet? Are you planning to go there?
We don't know if he ever made it to Tampa did anybody answers add anything right contact with him If it is him, I mean, I kind of understand why you would use your full name I mean like also not really because you could just call yourself Kenneth But you you're not worried about people like googling your name or things being online tied back to you Like what are the odds
someone's gonna see it?
I Wonder too. Can you have appeal box because that's what it was in Connecticut appeal box?
Can you have that forwarded somewhere else like is he being complex with the trail?
But then if you are why use that name Unless you use that name because it is your name and you're not the guy who went missing like some people can have the same name Yeah, and then did you see that weird part?
So there's a Part in a article where it says it's like a percent sign Danielson I wondered if that was like a care of like have you ever seen like a package that says like no uh If I'm sending something to your daughter, but I'm sending it to your address I would send it like to josey care of Ashley flowers So it's being sent to you, but it's actually for josey and like the symbol
is a c Uh-huh, like I don't think there was like a typed symbol for it But I would write like a little c and then a slash and then an oh under oh It would almost look like a percentage sign because the C in the oh are like both circular and so it's Care of Danielson is like kind of how I would read it.
So who's that? You're the one telling the story Like now my question is does there anyone in his life that had that name if it's him if it's him I have so many more questions now.
I'm so sorry. I wish you were here when I was researching I would have like there's like more rabbit holes.
I would have gone down I wish I could like write it out for you.
No, I can picture exactly what you're saying Like care of Danielson Danielson who is Danielson which means that the P.O.
Box could be in like Danielson's name Then that means someone is helping him be gone right Danielson Danielson obviously.
Okay Well, if anyone else puts up on that.
I don't know, but They they did or they didn't either way it was a dead end for police because they Definitely didn't find Kenneth TBD if they knew to look for Danielson or found Danielson I know that police tried to track down whoever placed the ad through the paper But that didn't lead them anywhere that never leads Impossible.
I feel like we've done this like a lot recently recently where I'm like you had to pay for it You have to like no one took like a receipts.
It's no like I mean That's why I practice is so shading now.
They're like this is how we've always done things when you like trade services with random people like no questions asked Well, either way time continues to pass and over the next two years some rumors pop up about where Kenneth could be One says he's in Europe another Latin America by now the FBI is involved which like They kind of think he's alive right like they're
they're doing more than just guessing yeah, but He could literally be I know and they don't they do say they don't think he's left the country They don't think but they also admit that like this is the 70s.
It would be pretty easy to get a passport or 70 Yeah, so he could be anywhere And back home the charges just keep coming According to an article in the reporter in April of 1974 He ends up getting charged with one count of income tax evasion in 1969 so this is tax that he was evading years before he went missing He gets two counts of failure to file tax returns in 70 and 71
and what's more interesting to me is that in 69 He reported an income of $1,030 which is like almost $9,000 today and even for like 69 that's a pretty low Especially if he has a pretty big family six family of eight.
Yeah But he should have reported an income of $31,507 which is like $272,000 ish today and here's where it keeps getting complicated So in 70 and 71 the years that he didn't file any tax returns.
He had a gross income of about $140,000 Which is girl what?
1.1 million and did he make that each year or was it combined?
I don't know but that's like either way Why not?
Then the first amount that you told me it was like $1,000 converted to $8,000 our money Nothing points to like where that jump is coming from Right, I was gonna say like did he get a new job?
Did he take on more clients?
And now we know he's taking money.
He's not supposed to be taking right but not even that doesn't make up the difference The one thing I think is strange is I don't know How they knew he was making that money like you would think if the government knew about it It was from some kind of legitimate means right?
Right. He it's not from him skimming off the top of something Or they only know because it's like sitting in his account and they're like well where did it come from?
You have to do something with it How do they even know that this money is there unless it was not shady?
Am I like am I making sense or am I like I'm oversimplifying it?
I feel like you're making sense but also I don't know how that access works how the records work Like what you're saying makes sense for 2024 when we were recording this I don't know what that looks like in 1970 through 75 which is what we're talking about right now, right?
It so there's just shady money stuff going on.
Yeah, and the other thing though It's like doesn't seem like he needed to steal money That's the one thing I can't get past yeah unless they knew he was making that money But it also wasn't there and it was gone in which case he maybe was in an ultra bad financial spot We don't know we don't know a lot of things and even though there's more charges there's no Kenneth And
eventually like the really hard pushes to find him just stopped like There are other cases the FBI has to focus on Seven years after his disappearance his wife files a petition to declare him legally deceased and despite law enforcement seemingly believing that he's still out there somewhere A judge does grant that order which allows his family to collect on five life
insurance policies Five one two three four five five seems like a lot like four too many I could even buy like two Fine no biggie you have six kids right like Maybe two policies cover your bases, but and a third Maybe when you had that fourth fifth kid you're like oh, oh, I'm like he's an attorney.
Maybe ones from the business To be fair.
I know nothing about these policies.
I don't know how much they were four But it does it feels strange to me And in the end, I'm not sure how many of those policies actually got paid out I know one of the life insurance companies tried to object But there's very little reporting on it.
So who knows if they ended up paying or not Mm-hmm what I do know is that at some point whether the family changed their mind or always believed it who knows but at some point Many if not all of the family do say that they believe he was a victim of foul play In an article published in the Milwaukee Journal in 1992 one of his sons Michael explains how he conducted his own investigation And
from this we get a little more information about the money taken from the trust And actually I think it makes a stronger case for foul play Even though early on were like oh, maybe this is the reason he left mm-hmm So Michael says that every time money was taken from the trust Kenneth had left an IOU on file at the bank where the money was being held And so he says in his opinion that indicates
Kenneth wasn't even trying to hide the fact that he was taking that money There was like an honesty to his stuff Yeah, and he's like he's like why would he do that if he was if he was planning on like Pacing out and like absconding with the money.
Yeah So he just got in over his head on everything maybe I mean Maybe he didn't file the taxes because he's losing money He's paying someone back if he's into something it seems like whatever he was into he just kept getting into deeper and deeper Right like you leave the IOU But then you can then you have to take more and like Some of it IOUs and then like at some point like
you can't get out of it And here's the thing.
I don't know what police say about the money But there is something from Michael Who says that The money that Kenneth took was spent before he disappeared so He does say in 1980 that he didn't run away with it So when we were asking about where the money was he's saying it wasn't there when he left Yeah, but because like but then my question is like well tell me what he's
spent it on right Because also if you just tell me that the money's not in the account.
I'm like okay like then where is it?
Can you prove that he bought something or like where did it go where the literal receipts And he doesn't say He also says that Kenneth had this really nasty dispute with one of his former business associates And that the man that he had the dispute with was seen in Milwaukee on the day that Kenneth disappeared But he doesn't give us a name of this mystery man.
No And literally That is the last update that I could find about Kenneth's case He is still missing today and still has a family who wants to know what happened to him Now he would be 101 years old at the time of this episode's release But at the time he vanished he was six one and wore glasses He's a white guy with gray hair and blue eyes and his car was found on West State
Street in Milwaukee So if you know anything about what happened to Kenneth You can call the new Holstein Police Department at 920 898 4241 You can find all the source material for this episode on our website crimejunkipodcast.com And you can follow us on Instagram at crimejunkipodcast We're gonna be back next week with a brand new episode But don't go anywhere.
We've got some good to share with you I I know we're not quite to the end of the month yet But we wanted to bring you a little early bit of the good because we may have something kind of special for you next week And I mean and who can be upset about celebrating the good a little bit early I know I love it.
So what do you got? Okay, this week we have a web submission from Laura Hi, Ashley and Britt.
My name is Laura. I'm an immigrant from the Dominican Republic I came to visit the United States two weeks before the pandemic and I was unable to go back to my country I met a guy soon after that and we got married.
I was really in love. I got pregnant and life was good Two years into our marriage I found your show and I can say that has been the best thing that ever happened to me I started listening every day and more and more I became aware of the red flags One day he poured alcohol over my face and I didn't pay much attention to it Another day he broke a door Then he got loud and tried
to kick me out of our house He started threatening me with taking his own life and things got really scary At the end he went to my job and attacked me And that was it for me Our son at the time was only two years of age.
He would run and hide But thanks to you guys it didn't take me seven times to try and escape I didn't want to be on your show that way I chose to be I'm gonna cry.
I chose to be on the good section Last October I woke up early took my son went to the domestic violence family division and got a restraining order against him Because I saved all the proof of domestic violence I learned from you guys to keep my missing persons file After that we went to court I got a final restraining order and he can't hurt me anymore I finally feel
safe and happy again. I got a new job.
I moved and I have so many good things going on Life is way better now I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I never found your show I have no family here.
No one would be able to start looking for me if something bad happened to me I guess maybe all the crime junkies would be looking for answers But I'm glad I found your show and I have a good story to tell I feel like my full body shoulders are exclusively for this segment now Whoo that is Oh man.
I didn't want to be on your show that way.
I wanted to be on the good segment The amount of like I don't know I've said this before but I think this is one of the things I've been surprised by is the amount of people Who have left domestic violence relationships because we have been so brave And it's it was so cool the way she pointed to that statistic because it is a statistic that we've talked about before that It
often takes seven times for someone to leave for good and so many people in that situation don't get a fifth six Yes, haven't tried It's like it's wild to think that like man can the show reaches millions of people Is that a statistic that can be changed?
Mm-hmm by talking about this by talking about the warning signs and for women and men for people to realize that they're not alone and what they're experiencing Like if you can see the pattern and you see it so many times in other people Then do you realize you go back the second time the third time you're like oh This is what they're talking about it doesn't change.
Can you break free? And if what you need is that community is to hear other people's stories like how?
Oh my god I'm so happy that you and your child are safe.
Yes, and you may not have a lot of family here, but you have crime junkies got the crime junkie family Crime junkie is an audio check production So what do you think Chuck do you prove?
