Skimbleshanks?
Skimbleshanks, where are you, my precious feline angel?
What's the matter, Ryan?
Did you lose your cat?
Bridget, I can't find Skimbleshanks anywhere.
I'm worried sick.
Wait, is that Skimbleshanks?
Up there in that tree?
Oh no, it is!
And not even I, at an impressive height of five feet ten and a quarter inches, am tall enough to reach a branch at that height.
How are we going to get him down?
Never fear, it's me, Veronica Valiant.
I'll rescue your cat.
Wow, it's Veronica Valiant, my favorite member of the Vindicator superhero squad.
I can't believe she's here to rescue Skimbleshanks.
All right, here's your cat, safe and sound.
Thank you, Veronica Valiant.
You saved the day.
Oh, don't mention it.
It's all part of being a superhero.
Uh, so what are you up to now?
Uh, we're just starting an episode of our money podcast, Million Bazillion.
Cool, cool.
Do you think I could stick around for that?
Uh, I guess, if you want.
You don't really have anything more important to do?
No, it's kind of a slow morning for crime and I'm not doing the office until noon, so.
Okay, well, great.
Then let's roll the music.
You're listening to Million Bazillion.
I'm Bridget.
I'm Ryan.
And we help dollars make more sense.
Now, today we have two listeners with a question along the same lines.
Let's hear them.
Hi, my name is Henry and I am seven years old and I live in New Jersey.
And my question is, why do some employees get paid more than others?
Hi, my name is Nathaniel and I am eight years old.
I live in Singapore.
My question is, why do some people make more money than others?
Why wouldn't people be paid the same salary?
Very interesting questions, Henry and Nathaniel.
Why, it's the very same question once asked long ago by a man named Karl Marx, born in 1818.
Well, I actually called up Nathaniel and Henry to ask them what they meant.
Henry had recently seen this movie about these singing animals and one of the characters gets paid less than her co-workers.
It turns out in real life when economists do the math on how much we all get paid.
People who don't identify as men are getting paid less.
It's called the wage gap.
Yeah, it's like if you got 10 a week for allowance and your brother got 20.
You definitely want to know why.
Hey, I've got an idea.
Oh, hey, Veronica, you're still here.
Yep.
Well, how about, instead of sitting in your yard for this whole episode, how would you like to visit the Vindicator's headquarters?
Wow, you really mean it?
Intriguing offer.
Bridget and I will think it over.
No, we don't need to think about it.
Take us to the Vindicator headquarters.
Yes, please.
All right.
Grab hold tight to my cape.
And get ready for a wild ride.
Ah!
Ah!
We're flying through the air.
We'll be right back after this with the tour of the Vindicators headquarters and some answers for Henry and Nathaniel.
Hold on, Skimbleshanks.
And now it's time for asking random kids not-so-random questions.
Today's question is if you could make money doing your favorite thing ever, what would that favorite thing be?
Eating a blueberry muffin every day.
Playing soccer.
I think I would choose Minecraft.
Playing video games.
It would be a horror movie director.
I wish I could make money looking at cool stuff in museums.
Probably riding horses or painting.
I would find money just reading a book.
It'd be fun.
Because once you put your pencil to the paper and really think about it, you can make a whole world of anything you want.
That was Ava in Philadelphia, Rowena in Louisville Kentucky, Joshua in Denver, Ayla in Springfield Ohio, Mickey from Denver, Roman in New York City, Natalia in Arizona, Bethany in North Carolina and Teddy in Richmond, Virginia.
This has been Asking Random Kids, Not So Random Questions.
Here we are at the secret headquarters of the Vindicators, America's favorite all-star superhero force.
OMG.
You don't understand how huge this is for me, Ryan.
I'm like the number one fan of the Vindicators.
I read about them when they're in the news.
I watch all the movies and TV shows based on their adventures.
I love the Vindicators.
Don't you just love the Vindicators?
I'm not really into superheroes per se.
No offense at all.
I'm more of a world cinema guy.
You know, the great filmmakers like Fellini, Tarkovsky, Mizoguchi.
Oh, yeah, totally.
I think I follow them on TikTok.
Let me introduce you to some of my co-workers.
This is Mega Woman.
What's up?
Can I get you water, coffee, anything you want?
She can fit all of her tasks into a single day by manipulating time.
The morning's wide open.
I'm borrowing time from next Tuesday.
And this is the flex.
They can absorb rage and turn it into placid seething.
Uh, yeah.
That's me.
And this, of course, is Dr. Weird.
I'm reading your mind and can tell you're excited to meet me.
Wow.
Dr. Weird, you're right.
Here's Sheborg.
Greetings, human friend.
And of course, you all know and love Grook.
I am Grook.
Wow.
Thanks for bringing us here to meet everyone.
Typical Veronica.
Always picking up strays.
Flex, don't make me bust out my laser.
Nice try, V. But your laser's no match for my shield of destiny.
Looks like we're going to have to replace the coffee maker again.
I'll find a good one online.
And it's shipped.
Should be here by noon.
Wow, it really is just like the movies.
You superheroes just wisecrack and fist bump each other all day.
Hey, would there happen to be a litter box on the premises that Skimbleshanks can use?
And just a normal litter box, not some litter box for supercats that shoots lasers or anything.
Oh, sure.
Try the pet sitting room down the hall to your left.
Oh, Bridget, while he's taking care of Skimbleshanks, why don't you follow us?
Okay, listen, Bridget, we didn't bring you to the Vindicator's headquarters by chance.
You're here for a reason.
It's to help us with a money problem.
What is it?
I'll help you in any way I can.
A few days ago, there was a problem with my paycheck.
I had to go down to the payroll office.
That's where they write all the paychecks that they use to pay the superheroes for their work every week, so that I could get my paper check reprinted.
Wait, you use paper checks?
You don't have direct deposit?
No, I keep meaning to set it up.
Oh, you gotta do it.
It's so easy.
The bank just puts your money right into your account without you needing to do anything.
It is so much more convenient.
And when you have it... Oh, sorry.
I did not mean to interrupt.
Go on with your story, please.
Anyway...
In the payroll office I got a glimpse at the Vindicator payroll spreadsheet and I saw that we female superheroes are being paid less than our male superhero colleagues.
The flex is non-binary, but they're being paid less too.
What?
That's terrible.
Yeah, and I had no idea until that very moment, because we never talk about how much we make.
And I don't think anyone's ever checked to make sure that we're all being paid fairly.
Are you kidding me?
So when I saw the opportunity to rescue Ryan's cat, I had to do it in order to make contact with you, Bridget.
Okay well, this is really great timing, because this is the question that we are going to answer today.
Why do some employees get paid more than others?
Yes, I could sense that.
Oh, Dr. Weird, is this the part where you explain the whole problem and what to do next?
Well, let me bring up my presentation.
I'll play some intriguing explainer music.
Thanks, Sheborg.
That would be helpful.
It's true that not everyone is going to get paid the same amount of money for all kinds of reasons.
Some of those reasons are fair.
Like if someone's been doing their job for a really long time, they might make more money than the person who just started.
Yep, that makes sense.
It's called seniority.
You get paid more when you have more experience doing the job.
Right.
Or maybe someone's really good at their job in a way that can be measured.
Like you're a baker who, in one hour, can make twice as many loaves of bread than the other bakers.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
Cut the music, Sheborg.
Look, we know that there are fair and logical reasons why some people get paid more at a job than others.
But that isn't the case here.
I've been at my superhero job longer than almost any of the Vindicators and I lead the department in number of daily cat rescues and still I'm getting paid less than Kid Gravity, a rookie who just started.
Well, according to my research, Oh, that's terrible.
And then look at what happens when we start breaking these numbers down by race.
Asian American women working full time.
They make 92 cents for every dollar their white male colleagues make.
Black women make only 67 cents.
And Latinas and Native women typically only make 57 cents for every dollar a white male makes.
Say it ain't so.
How can this be?
What gives?
Sometimes it's just for plain mean unfairness.
Like sexism, racism, along with ageism and ableism.
Hey, isn't this a kid's show?
What are you even talking about with all these isms?
Flex, all those isms that Dr. Weir just mentioned are examples of discrimination.
That's treating a group unfairly because of their race or age or abilities or gender.
And sometimes this unfairness is just baked into what we all think is normal.
That's what's happening here.
As vindicators, we're supposed to fight against unfairness.
How could this happen to us?
Well, there are a lot of old fashioned ways of thinking that create this problem.
So, for instance, a long time ago, it was considered totally OK to pay women less, because everyone assumed that her husband's job was the real income and she was just working, you know, to earn a little extra.
Which is ridiculous.
As Dr. Weird, I'm the primary earner in my household.
My family depends on my income way more than my husband, freelance music critic Weird, although he's great at his job.
Oh, yeah, it's totally bananas.
You know, Dr Weird, as a country we're still figuring out how to stop thinking in that old-fashioned way.
But aren't there, like, laws about this?
Oh, good question, Flex.
Yeah, there was a law passed years ago, the Equal Pay Act.
People thought it would solve everything, but that law doesn't help with some bigger problems around fairness and pay.
Like, how come some very important jobs pay less than other jobs?
There's still work to be done to close the wage gap.
Wage gap?
Did you say wage gap?
I know where there's a giant gap.
That big quarry in the industrial district.
If we can fill that gap, maybe everyone will be paid the same.
Oh, no, no, no.
The wage gap isn't a literal actual gap.
It's just another word for what we're talking about.
That difference or gap between how much men and women and people of different races are paid.
Sure.
Whatever.
Yeah.
Set coordinates to the quarry.
We're going to go fill that gap.
Bridget, I'm making you a temporary member of the Vindicators.
With your help, we'll drive out this unfairness, one workplace at a time if we have to.
If anyone out there is being paid less for no good reasons, we'll put a stop to it with sheer superhero force.
Okay, I'm totally on board.
In spirit.
This is a complicated issue.
It shouldn't be up to any individual person to solve.
Bosses need to take responsibility.
It's true it doesn't have a super simple solution, but... Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's obliterate this problem once and for all.
To the hovercraft!
To the hovercraft!
I am Groot!
To the hovercraft, I guess.
We'll be right back after this.
Okay, good job, Skimbleshanks.
Let's see if they got any cat food here.
Uh, hey, where did everyone go?
Bridget?
Veronica?
Grook?
Okay, welcome back to Million Bazillion.
This is Bridget.
I'll try to recap what's going on, even though I can't believe what's going on.
In this episode, we're trying to get to the bottom of why some people are paid more than others.
And long story short.
I'm now a member of the superhero group the Vindicators, traveling in their massive hovercraft above the city on a mission to make pay more fair.
Now let's get to work.
Hey, what happened to Ryan?
Don't worry.
Ryan's back at headquarters, probably bro-ing it up with the boys.
It's okay, Skimbleshanks.
It's just a room full of superheroes working out.
Oh, yo, they call me the Ultra Warrior.
What's your name?
Ryan.
That's cool.
Are you like the Amazing Ryan or something?
No, just regular Ryan.
So, which muscles do you like working out the most?
Abs, glutes, traps?
Uh, all of them.
I like all of them.
Oh, you're a compound workout guy vibes.
So you think you got what it takes to be a superhero?
Uh, I don't really wanna be a superhero.
You don't want to be a superhero?
Whoa, are you?
That's right.
I'm Jeff Payne, founder of the Vindicators, and I put this whole group together.
Wow, even though your name is Jeff Payne, you seem perfectly nice and happy.
Common mistake.
My name is Payne, but I'm really just a super nice boss, and all my employees love me.
They all pitched in together and got me this great mug.
See?
It says, Best Superhero Boss.
So, Ryan, what do you have against superheroes?
No offense.
It's just that a lot of your adventures end the same way.
Like there's a bad guy and a big light that shoots up to the sky and you have to stop it in time and you always do.
And I think I personally just like adventures that are a little less easy to predict.
You know, the kind of stories you see, for instance, in the world cinema classics of yesteryear.
Like what do you mean?
Funny you should ask.
I have a little list.
Oh, let's see.
There's La Strada.
Never seen it.
That's very good.
Kurosawa's Ikiru.
Don't know it.
Never seen it.
Riffifi.
Never seen that one.
Yeah, never heard of that.
Réglet des Joux.
No.
Don't know it.
The films of Claire Denis and Agnes Varda.
Panther Panchali.
Okay, we're at the giant quarry.
Let's blow up those rocks with our missile.
We gotta fill that wage gap so women will be paid as much as men.
I am Groob.
Hey, hold on here, hold on.
Blowing up those rocks isn't going to solve anything.
Like I said, this is a complicated problem.
We've only scratched the surface.
But what are we supposed to do about it?
Please say the answer is blow up rocks.
The answer is not to blow up rocks.
Yeah, but can't we just blow up rocks to feel better?
Unfortunately, I don't think so.
But for you Veronica, the rest of the team well, I think you're going to have to have an uncomfortable conversation with your superhero boss.
Okay, I guess we're going to have to call a group meeting with the founder of the Vindicators, Jeff Payne.
Grook, turn the hovercraft around and head back to headquarters.
Grook, I said turn the hovercraft around, not blow up the rocks.
I am Grook.
Okay, so we're back at the Vindicator headquarters.
And where's Ryan?
Oh, there he is.
Ryan, what's going on in here?
Shh.
Some of the boys were curious about world cinema, so we're watching Vittorio De Sica's drama Two Women.
It's almost over.
Okay, turn off the movie.
Emergency group meeting in five minutes.
I'm requesting everyone, including our boss, Jeff Payne, join us.
Wait, Ultra Warrior, are you crying?
Yeah.
Is everything okay?
Totally.
Five minutes.
We'll be there.
Okay, Vindicators, listen up.
Thank you all for dropping whatever you were doing to attend this meeting on such short notice.
And thanks to our boss, the guy who recruited us all in the first place, Jeff Payne, for joining us.
Hey, happy to join.
You know, I work hard to be an agreeable, likable boss.
Speaking of which, I brewed some hot cocoa for everyone.
Okay, that is nice.
But I have something awkward to bring up.
This is a super sensitive subject that'll probably make everyone mad.
So I'm gonna give the floor over to our honorary vindicator, Bridget.
Me?
Bridget, they're all yours.
Really?
Uh, okay.
Uh...
Look, I'll just come out and say it.
The male and female members of the Vindicators are not being paid the same for doing the same kind of work.
No doubt about it.
This is an unfair situation and it should change, not just in this workplace, but in every workplace.
And there might actually be another force at work here.
I'm sure that's not happening here.
All right.
We're all one big, happy mutant robot psychic family.
You know what I mean?
Bridget's right, Jeff.
In my research, I found that there are some jobs women are just more likely to have.
And those jobs pay less than jobs men are more likely to have.
But that doesn't make any sense.
Why don't we pay all sorts of jobs the same?
Why should a lawyer make so much more than a teacher?
Teachers are really, really important.
Yes, including teachers of classic cinema.
And when women enter a field in large numbers, the pay drops.
And then there's another thing.
Look at this.
Women are more likely to work part-time than men.
But don't you think that's a little suspicious?
What's stopping these women from working as much as men?
And can we defeat it?
Men and women might start working at about the same age, but women are more likely to have to take breaks like if they have a baby.
That's a major medical event and they usually want to take some time to recover and, you know, be with their baby.
Oh, and by the way, their partners aren't always given any time off.
This isn't true in all countries, but it is in this country.
Even I want to spend time with my robot family.
I didn't get time off when Skimbleshanks was born.
And speaking of this country, childcare and babysitters are really expensive.
Sometimes families have to decide which parent will need to work fewer hours just to be home with the kids after school and that sort of thing.
And typically it ends up being the woman who cuts her hours or chooses a lower-paying but more flexible job.
And when you average it all together it gets us to that big difference in pay.
We started with that.
Women are only making about 84 cents for every dollar a man earns.
Now let's get to what's happening here.
All that is just swimming around, a big problem none of us is going to solve on our own.
But your boss, Jeff Payne, might suffer from something called implicit bias.
And it's twisting his mind when it comes to paying some of the vindicators.
Implicit bias?
Didn't we defeat that villain last year?
No, that was vicious to bias.
This is something else.
Implicit bias is a way of thinking that we're not totally aware of.
Like we do it without even thinking.
Like you're mean to someone who eats a food you don't like.
Or maybe they're wearing a t-shirt in a color you hate.
Wait a minute.
Is that why I've never gotten along with the orange oracle?
My dislike of the color orange?
See, I told you.
It's important that we do the work to notice and overcome our implicit biases.
And there are plenty of other things bosses could do to fix this problem, like Jeff Payne.
When you were trying to figure out how much you should pay your employees.
How'd you come up with that number?
Well, I look at what someone made at their last job before I decide how much to offer them for a job here.
I was trying to be nice and fair.
But if your female hires are mostly coming from a place of never having been paid as well, how are they supposed to ever earn more?
Right.
Another way to fix this is to just stop being so secretive about how much money everyone makes.
Some bosses might try to make you think you're not supposed to talk about how much you make, but that's actually against the law.
They can't stop you from talking about your pay.
Is that right?
So what's your salary, ultra warrior?
Look, I'm all for the ladies being paid as much as the men, but Ultra Warrior is not telling how much bacon he brings home.
Ultra Warrior, you don't want to be that guy who doesn't help out his colleagues.
Just go ahead and tell him.
You'll feel better after, I promise.
Okay, okay, okay.
I make $68,000 a year.
Hey, that's $6,000 more than what I make.
Pshh!
Okay, okay.
Well, $6,000 a year isn't small, but it's not really a huge gap, is it?
Hey, it's still something.
Think about how much you could buy in a year with an extra $6,000 and then add it up over time.
Years and years, decades.
We're talking about enough money to buy a house or put away for retirement.
It's enough money to change a life.
OK, I get it.
I get it.
This has been a healthy conversation.
Starting today, I'm going to change some things about the Vindicators moving forward from now on.
I'm going to be more transparent about wages and make the salaries publicly known in job postings.
And I'll do a regular audit to make sure my implicit bias isn't creeping in over time.
But that's not enough.
I know what we need to do.
We need to gather all our weapons and go search every corner of the universe until we find implicit bias.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Implicit bias, we're coming for you.
Wait a minute.
Implicit bias isn't something you can attack with weapons.
It's a different kind of struggle.
You have to have discussions about it.
They left.
Well, Bridget, looks like your job here is done.
Excuse me, Mr. Payne.
I know this isn't the best time, but we came here riding on the back of a cape.
Do the Vindicators have a car service that can take us home, or should we call our own Uber?
Uh...
Now time to play Would You Rather.
I'm Ben from West Grove, Pennsylvania.
Today, we want to know would you rather take a trip anywhere in the world but live without video games, or play video games every day but never go on vacation, ever again?
Let us know what you think.
We're at millionbazillionatmarketplace.org.
Thanks.
Bye.
Okay, welcome back.
We're outside the Vindicator headquarters in the rain, waiting for our ride.
It's okay, Skimbleshanks.
Our Uber driver, Dennis, will be here in four minutes.
Veronica Valiant, you're back already?
Yeah, we tried to track down implicit bias, but the more that we asked about it, the more we realized that the best solution is for all of us to just start a union.
So we're going to organize the first superhero union ever to help ensure all superheroes are paid fairly.
And workplace hazards are properly recognized and dealt with.
Yeah, like if we get paper cuts handling forms.
Or, you know, cut in half by a laser beam.
That's great.
Like I said, the wage gap is not an easy problem to fix, but there are some things we can do to make it more fair.
Bridget, our driver Dennis will be here in two minutes.
Ryan, I'm in the middle of the big recap.
Oh, sorry.
I just wanted to keep you updated.
Anyway.
The more a company shares about how much they pay, the better.
And bosses can help close this gap by double checking they're not paying their employees unfairly.
Maybe even offering child care.
I don't know.
There are like a ton of solutions out there.
But bigger than that.
We all have to see that there's a problem with the way we set pay in this country, so we can start to do the work to fix it.
Remember, the wage gap exists because of ideas people have about work.
At the end of the day, it should be about fairness, you know?
And for anyone listening, you can always look for ways to make the world more fair.
Think about how you share snacks at lunchtime or toys on the playground.
Is there anyone you're leaving out?
Maybe think about why that is and change it.
Okay.
Bye for now.
And thanks for helping us out.
It was nothing.
Thanks for saving my cat.
I was thanking Bridget.
Oh.
I am Grook.
Thanks for listening to this episode of Million Bazillion.
If you want to know more about the wage gap, check out the tip sheet for this episode at our website.
Marketplaceorg slash million.
You can also sign up for our newsletter while you're there and get next week's episode delivered straight to your email inbox.
It's going to be our last episode of this season and we're going to find out why there are so many of the same stores.
Million Bazillion is brought to you by Marketplace from American Public Media.
This episode was written and hosted by me, Ryan Perez.
Bridget Bodner is my co-host and the director of podcasts at Marketplace.
We had help with this episode and we want to thank Andrea Johnson from the National Women's Law Center and Dr Diane Hackett for sharing their expertise.
And thanks to our friends who lent their voices for this episode.
Kimberly Adams, Sabree Beneshore, Courtney Bergseeker, Rima Kreis, Lily Jamali, Chris Julin, Jasmine Romero, Mel Rosenberg, Daniel Shin and Catherine Winter.
Million Bazillions producer is Marissa Cabrera.
Jasmine Romero is our editor.
Chris Julin is our sound designer.
Brian Allison mixed this episode.
And our theme music was created by Wonderly.
Francesca Levy is the Executive Director of Digital at Marketplace.
Neil Scarborough is the VP and General Manager.
Million Pazillion is funded in part by the Cy Sims Foundation, partnering with organizations and people working for a better and more just future since 1985.
And special thanks to the Ranzetta Family Charitable Fund and NextGen Personal Finance for providing the startup funding for this podcast and continuing to support Marketplace in our work to make younger audiences smarter about the economy.
Million, Bazillion is produced by Marketplace, which shares economic stories and voices from all communities, especially ones that are underrepresented.
It's part of our public service journalism, and donations from you power that mission.
So adults, take a moment today to support Marketplace and inclusive journalism.
Go to marketplace.org slash givemillion.
And thanks.
What?
Our driver canceled?
Ugh, so annoying.
Ryan, I got a question for you.
Yes, Jeff Payne.
Oh, let me guess.
Are you going to ask me to join the Vindicators?
No, no, no, no.
Those foreign movie classics you were talking about earlier?
I'd like to check some of them out.
Do you have a list?
Yes, I do.
Well, first you simply must see the films of Jean Renoir A Grand Illusion.
And Baudou, Saved from Drowning.
Never seen it.
And then, of course, Ozu's Flavor of Green Tea over Rice.
Never seen it.
And then, of course, there's Jacques Demy, of course, The Umbrellas of Schurberg.
Gorgeous film.
Never seen it.
Oh, you'd love it, Jeff.
You would love it.
You would love it.
And Where is the Friend's House by Abbas Kiarostami.
Now, that's a film.
Now, let me see.
What else?
What else?
What else?
What else?
