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As a leader, as an individual contributor, as I was as a player, the ability to manage conflict becomes so critical and have constructive conversations where the conflict isn't tearing down, but it's actually the conflict is actually helping build us up, right?
Having those hard conversations so that we can resolve issues on the spot quicker, versus having hard issues, linger, fester, and eventually become aspects that actually drag us down versus actually propelling us forward.
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Ryan, thanks for joining us today.
Thank you, Kwame. It's good to be with everybody.
I'm excited for the conversation.
Yeah, it's likewise, my friend.
So how would you get a started by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Yeah, my name is Ryan Malar.
I've got a fairly unique professional background.
I'm a three-time Olympian and Olympic gold medalist in the sport of volleyball, which is timely, right?
Because the Olympics are just around the corner of the Paris Olympics coming up next month.
So I'm excited for that.
And then of course, then you've got the 2028 games coming to LA, the next Olympics, which will be really cool to have the Olympics back in the US.
So yeah, some exciting things going on with the Olympic movement.
But yeah, that was a big part of my life kind of way back.
I played for Team USA for nearly 15 years, and just had an amazing time.
We can talk a little bit more about that, of course, but just volleyball gave me so much.
And when I retired from volleyball back in 2012, almost immediately got into the consulting world joined a growing firm called Partners in Leadership, which is now called Culture Partners, major focus on cultural transformation and workplace accountability, which for me were kind of a logical fit after competing an athletic forum where culture and accountability are just massive aspects of team success.
And so I was able to create quite a bit of connective tissue between what I experienced from a professional athletic standpoint and how it applies to the business world.
Yeah, was helped grow that business for about 12 years.
And then left that organization joined another small consulting firm and then just recently in 2022, started my own firm called Gold Medal Mindset, where I leverage a lot of the learnings from the athletic standpoint, how they applied at business, culture, work environment, leadership, all the good stuff that really help an organization thrive.
So that's a little bit of my journey that I've been on and it's just been wonderful.
That is incredible. So first of all, Kudos on an incredible athletic career and Kudos for brilliant branding with your consulting firm.
Well done. Thanks. This is going to be a lot of fun because listeners, what you can see is Ryan has performed at an exceptionally high level in essentially every endeavor that he has gone through, whether it's professional sports or here as a professional in consulting too.
And when we were talking before, Ryan, you were talking about your unique perspective on the role conflict plays in life and success in general.
So can you tell the listeners a little bit about that too?
Yeah, I've got to obviously being a professional athlete and also in the business world now, you run into a lot of conflict.
Nothing ever really goes smooth all the time.
I think anybody that's listening can agree that it's a rare day when we go into our office or our work environment and we open the door and we're just bold over by rainbows and ponies and butterflies because it's this utopia of everything going right and nothing going wrong.
There's always going to be some type of challenger issue or hurdle or problem that we've got to resolve and having difficult conversations oftentimes kind of plays into that.
Working relationships, communicating with peers and coworkers, differing of perspectives, all of those things come into play here and our ability to be effective and how we communicate these difficult conversations in my book is really oftentimes what separates the really good from the great.
It often can also solidify your ability to understand and express the value you're bringing in your job and your workplace and in your family and your friendship relationships.
The more effective we are at communicating during those hard conversations, typically seem people being more successful when they're able to communicate in a really effective way.
So incredible. Ryan, this reminds me of a classic saying in the negotiation space.
They say when a three-time Olympian who is a gold medal winner says conflict is the key to success, it is automatically true.
That's funny that that's an actual saying.
Amazing. So specific. So specific.
So I'm glad we were able to bring it up so organically here.
This is great. And the thing is when people look at your career as an athlete, let's focus on the athletics first and then we'll get into the consulting.
People would say yes, I understand winning three gold medals probably wasn't easy to do, but they probably wouldn't attribute a portion of that success to conflict and difficult conversations.
So can you help the listeners get an idea of what types of conversations you were having at that point in your career?
Yeah, when you're competing at that level of athletics at the Olympic level and people have probably heard this quite often, but the margin of difference between talent is very, very thin.
So oftentimes it's the intangibles.
It's the little aspects of development.
It's the little aspects of focus where you spend your time in the training environments, where you spend your time in the communicative environments.
The teams that are really good at managing those aspects are generally the ones that give that have a little bit of an edge.
Because again, we're talking about from a talent perspective, the edge is very small.
And so you've got to look for other areas to capitalize on in regards to being successful.
Conflict management is a massive one in that because again, when you're in that type of environment, everybody's obviously you've got a direct focus on the end result outcome, which is you want to be the best in the world.
Right? So there's a unifying aspect of having this clear vision of where we want to go.
But the challenges is that in the Olympic games, and I'll just speak for volleyball, you got 12 guys that are on the roster, but you don't have 12 guys in the gym preparing to try to go to the Olympic games.
You might have 40, 50 guys in the gym trying to get to those 12 spots.
And so as you can probably imagine Kwame is you got you've got all these guys trying their hardest talent-wise pretty similar.
So there tends to be some natural conflict that happens.
And whether that be through just direct competition, whether that be through ego, sometimes plays a factor in that as well.
The leadership that's leading the ship, right?
Leading and steering the boat and the ship.
Sometimes that plays a little bit into it.
And so as a leader, as an individual contributor, as I was as a player, the ability to manage conflict becomes so critical and have constructive conversations where the conflict isn't tearing down.
But it's actually the conflict is actually helping build us up.
Right? Having those hard conversations so that we can resolve issues on the spot quicker versus having hard issues, linger, fester, and eventually become aspects that actually drag us down versus actually propelling us forward.
Incredible. And Ryan, what's really interesting to me is the fact that like you said at the beginning, margins are incredibly thin when it comes to the distribution of talent and the outcome.
And when you factor in the role of team cohesion and conflict management, we recognize that if the length of time it takes for you to resolve a conflict could have a significant impact on team cohesion in a way that impacts the end result.
And so we can see how it is directly tied to your success.
And let's think about it too.
Because when we think about ego, which was one of the things that you said leads to conflict, we can see yes, ego is emotionally driven.
And we could say, well, if you manage your emotions better, be a little bit more humble, something like that that could help.
That is theoretically what one might say with leadership, they might say, okay, well, if you improve your leadership skills, then that might help with conflict.
Okay, this theoretically, that is true.
But what's interesting first, what you said was competition.
And in this situation, when you are you have 40 or 50 guys competing for just 12 spots, you have true scarcity as it relates to the resources that are available.
So, how do you manage that competition and that conflict that will inherently happen when they say, hey, listen, this is my dream.
And if I don't get this spot, somebody else will live my dream.
How do you manage that? Yeah, I think it's the right question.
And in fact, it closely connects to a lot of the work that I do with my consulting clients through gold metal mindset.
So, I have, I put together a framework called the progress engine.
And there are components to the end, just like a normal engine, right?
There's gears, there's components to it.
And I focus the work on three really driving forces, three things that really fuel progress.
The first is clarity. So, I mentioned that there's this commonality of outcome, commonality of end result that everybody's looking for.
So, nobody goes into the Olympic volleyball gym and really has a different outcome or a different result than they want to be the best.
They want to eventually become Olympic champions.
That clarity of result, that clarity of outcome actually creates some unification because everybody's in there for the same reason.
Some people might be in there for more personal reasons, but in the end, everybody's working towards becoming Olympic champions.
So, there's some unifying aspects that are happening there, which really help in the conflict.
The second thing we talk about is alignment.
And that alignment is not an event.
It's not just because our head coach says that we're going to be Olympic champions in the next Olympics that everybody goes, yeah, okay, he just tells us that once.
And then everybody's like, yeah, I'm aligned on board.
Alignment is an ongoing process.
And it happens through ongoing discussion and it goes and it happens through ongoing negotiation around what's expected of me as being a part of this team and having some type of role and this journey that we're on.
All of those pieces are a part of the alignment process and alignment is happening continually over time.
It's like having a car. You don't just align your car one time and then you're like, okay, my car is aligned forever.
I don't have to align it anymore.
You have to like constantly be checking for alignment.
Same exact thing happens within a team.
Same exact thing happens within an organization or a business.
And then the last piece is ownership.
And these three cogs are kind of what are all working together to help fuel progress or our ability to continue to move towards the desired direction.
And so with ownership, that's about making the choice to what I call be you can in regards to ownership, you can kind of be in one and two places.
You can either choose to be in what I call winter mode.
You could probably imagine a lot of the attributes of somebody who's choosing to operate in winter mode.
They're not avoiding conflict.
They're looking for solutions.
They're curious. They're asking the right questions.
They're stepping up one time.
They're difficult. They're not looking to blame things or people.
So choosing to be in winter mode or choosing unfortunately to be in winter mode.
Because there's a very clear difference between winter mode and winter mode because you've got the antisesis of those attributes in winter mode down there in winter mode, right?
Where you've got people that are looking for blame.
They're pessimistic on the outcomes, right?
They're going to come up with all the reasons why it's not going to work.
They tend to be conflict avoidant or they tend to churn conflict.
So they want more of it, even though they don't want to be a part of it.
So it's like they're churning it, but they don't want to be resolving it.
And that just keeps us into the state of making it very difficult to move forward in the right direction.
Our ability to progress and move forward in the right direction really depends on our ability to choose to operate in winter mode more of the time.
We're not going to be in winter mode all the time.
We're human, right? We're going to make mistakes.
We're going to fall flat sometimes.
We're going to avoid conflict sometimes.
Maybe we need a break because we've got so much conflict going on in our life.
It's like, okay, I just need a little break from conflict here.
So I'm going to avoid it for a little bit.
But in the end, I've got to recognize that I'm in a place that's not super healthy or progressive.
And so eventually, I'm going to ask myself, okay, how do I get back into a better mindset here?
Because it's not like I can just let these things fester and live.
I've got to resolve them if I'm going to continue to move forward.
And so those are a lot of things that I'm kind of helping organizations and coaching leaders on being effective at and getting their people to choose to be in winter mode more of the time, choose to progress in their alignment, whatever it is that they're trying to align to and also create some hefty clarity on their team.
So everybody can be unified in their vision moving forward.
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The problem with this Ryan is that we did not talk yesterday because I was ranting to my son this morning about a winning mindset and if I had that ownership piece winning mode versus winery mode, oh my goodness.
So next time next time I'll I will cite you.
I'm a letter of high note, but this is great.
I just want to recap it here.
The progress engine we have clarity, alignment and ownership and we're recognizing how effective communication and conflict resolution are going to be imparted in each of these elements, right?
Because we have to have clear communication if we're going to resolve conflicts.
We have to be able to identify what the problem is.
We need alignment and that's a continuous process.
It's almost like balance.
You're never truly perfectly balanced.
It's always these micro adjustments that need to be made in order to maintain stability.
So leadership is an ongoing process.
It never ends. You don't there's no finish line here.
And then lastly, ownership.
I love that winning mode versus winery mode.
It makes it so clear. And one of the words that you focused in on at the end was choosing choice.
This is a choice. And I want to speak to this mindset a little bit more because I think sometimes we have that fixed mindset where we feel like either we're born with it or we're not.
But what it sounds like is that once we understand what that path is, we can choose.
It's going to be effortful.
It's going to be difficult, but there is that ownership that we can have an accountability that we can take for ourselves to actually make the choice to make this happen.
Yeah, absolutely. Ownership is a choice.
I get to choose whether I'm going to take ownership or not.
Nobody can make me be to choose to be, to choose ownership.
I have to choose that. But there are going to be factors to your point.
And a lot of times we deal with a lot of heavy factors.
So it's almost like there's this continual gravitational pull that's trying to drag us into a place of choosing winery mode because we've got all of these frustrating circumstances.
And maybe these circumstances are even outside of your control or not your fault that you even have them.
The really successful people are the ones that can recognize, okay, I've got this challenge in front of me.
Right. So what am I going to do about it?
I'm I going to let it drag me into a place of being unproductive.
Or am I going to start looking for solutions on how I can overcome it and actually start and continue to move towards a desired outcome.
And the people that choose the second way are generally the ones that you see continually succeed in their life.
Whether that be in sport or in business or in family, ownership and accountability play a massive part in our ability to to deliver excellence.
We often talk about how it's kind of the nerve center of everything you do.
Any decision that's made is going to require you to step up somehow.
We've talked about any type of obstacle that you've got to overcome.
Require someone to take ownership to overcome that obstacle.
The obstacle isn't just going to go away naturally on its own.
You know what I mean. So you've got to figure out, okay, start asking myself, all right, so what else do I need to do here?
What other resources can I tap into?
Who can I go get a perspective from that might be different than my own?
What questions do I need to ask here?
Those are all types of questions that people that are consistently living in that the choice of being in winter mode are constantly almost asking themselves.
It's when we stop asking ourselves some iteration of that question.
How else can I look at the problem differently?
When we stop asking ourselves those types of questions is when we're at jeopardy to go into winter mode?
Because the problems are not going to just like I mentioned earlier, not going to just surprisingly end one day and it's just everything is going right that we're always going to have challenges to deal with and being able to leverage this mindset, I think, is super critical in our ability to produce the type of progress and excellence that we want to.
I agree 100%. And again, I just like homing it on this because it's a choice and it takes continuous action.
But always just being proactively asking myself, what can I do?
Not what can other people do or what should other people do because that pulls us toward that winter mode because we're outsourcing responsibility for our own success.
I love this. And when you're leading a team or just an individual contributor on a team, one of the things that's necessary is timely feedback.
And I know in your career both as an Olympian and now with the consulting that you do, feedback is an important element of that process.
So can you tell us the role that feedback plays in all of this?
Yeah, it is. It is important because feedback provides people an opportunity to see a perspective that is different than their own.
Individually, if we don't go out and seek feedback or aren't provided feedback from people that we respect or whatever it is, when we don't get the feedback, our own individual gaze or our own individual perspective actually is pretty narrow.
The reason why I say that is because we have developed specific biases in our own way of thinking that our way of thinking is the absolute right way of thinking, right?
Nobody wakes up in the morning and gets out of bed and goes, I can't wait to go invalidate everything I know to be true today.
We do the exact opposite.
We wake up, we get out of bed and we go, I can't wait to go out and validate everything I know to be true today because we want our way of thinking to be the right way of thinking in fact so much so that we're going to influence others to also think the same way we think.
And so the joy of feedback is that you have an ability to gather differing perspectives, which gives you an even broader outlook on how things are beyond your own individual narrow gaze.
And so it was massively critical from an athletic standpoint as you can probably imagine.
It's why we've got a large coaching staff.
It's why you won't watch the NBA and you see their bench, they have rows of coaches on their benches.
It's not just they have one coach that's telling them some different things.
By the way, that head coach has some really good perspective to share.
But so does the guy in the third row who is starting free throw technicalities or whatever the inbound strategy from a basketball standpoint, I'm talking about, but we have the same thing with volleyball.
Each one of those people have a different perspective that we ourselves probably aren't seeing.
And the only way to get that perspective is to for them to offer that perspective to us by way of feedback or to have us go seek it.
And I don't think it's not any different within business.
I get into my cubicle, I come into work, I'm in my cubicle, I kind of get into my own lane, I'm kind of swimming myself, I'm not seeing a lot of what else is going on.
And unless I've got a mechanism or a structure in place that allows me to consistently be getting different perspectives from other people that I respect, that I work closely with, and that can provide me with some feedback that actually is timely and critical to what I'm working on in that moment.
So I think feedback is a massive, massive tool that is underutilized.
I'm interested in your thoughts on this as well, Kwame, because I think feedback doesn't happen more often in a lot of organizations because it's been given a bad rap for two or long.
There's this kind of negative undertow around what feedback actually is.
Like we've all had the experience where the manager says, Hey Kwame, I want you in my office at two o'clock, I've got feedback for you.
None of us ever thinking, Oh, I can't wait for that meeting.
That's going to be so fun.
We're immediately thinking, Oh, no, what did I do wrong?
So there's this connection to feedback being negative that almost blocks people in my mind from actually going out and seeking more of it, because we've just defined it in a way that is unfortunately looked at as negative often.
So those are a couple of thoughts that I have as I work with clients on helping them instill deeper cultures of feedback within their organizations.
What I really appreciate about this is the mindset that we're bringing into this because a lot of times people focus on the tactics behind feedback.
Okay, how do I give feedback?
Do this, do this, do this, do this.
And what we're seeing here is that it starts with your mindset.
And a lot of times we bring a lot of arrogance into these conversations and believing that we are the sole arbiters of truth in this interaction.
And that is a nice comforting place to be.
But when I think about all of the qualities of my closest friends and family members and everything and colleagues that I work with, being always right isn't one of them.
And honestly, it's fine.
It wouldn't be annoying if there was a person in our life that was always right.
It's like, please, I'm content with my fallibility.
Please take a person who would have very many friends.
I don't think. It would be well annoying.
Yes. I was telling the team yesterday.
I was saying that this year for me as a leader, one of my core things, and this is just not just at work, but also at home, was going into these conversations saying, Hey, what if I'm wrong and being more open to it?
Because now I'm more interested.
I'm less interested in being right and more interested in getting right.
And so I was like, Hey, listen, am I wrong?
Okay, let me know. Thank you.
I don't want to wallow in ignorance and being wrong forever.
I need your help. I need your perspective because you can see me and my behavior in ways that I can't.
And we need to be open with that.
And what's interesting too is that when you, yourself, are humble enough to accept the feedback of others, it makes your feedback so much more powerful because they're willing to reciprocate because they say, Hey, listen, I'm following your lead.
This is how you take feedback.
Oh, so it's not a threat.
So when feedback is offered to them, they're more receptive to.
Well said, I think there's two things that kind of strike me as I'm listening to there.
One is that last part that you just mentioned, you're absolutely right.
Let's say that you're a co-worker of mine, and I need your perspective.
If I go to you and say, Hey, Kwame, what feedback do you have for me around X, Y and Z?
That's a data point for you that we're in a situation where we're trying to build trust right now between our working relationship because I see Ryan coming to me and he's asking me for my perspective.
That's a pretty significant data point for me to have to go, Okay, I see what this person is doing.
And if you say, Sure, let me offer you some perspective.
And you give me that perspective.
I could at that point say, Hey, Kwame, are you open to any feedback yourself?
And one of two things could happen there.
One, you could say, maybe the relationship isn't as deep that you feel super comfortable with that yet, but it's building.
Or you could say, you know what, this person just took the ownership to go ask me for my perspective.
So yeah, I'm going to be open to getting their perspective about how I'm operating and some of the things that they feel like I could be doing more effectively or highlighting some of the things that they think I'm already doing really well.
Because as you probably know, feedback is kind of a two way street.
Again, the negative definition of feedback generally is because people see feedback as just negative, but a feedback actually, if we can go into the mindset aspect of it, we've got to shift that to where we've got people that need to see feedback as very positive.
And it almost doesn't even matter how people are receiving it because you can give feedback both appreciatively and constructively.
And if as long as my intention is to help you appreciative and constructive feedback is both positive, positive, right?
It's here the things you're doing really well, Kwame, and here are the things that I think could help you do even better.
That's a positive, positive interaction.
And then the next time you're going to go, Oh, feedback's not that bad.
I actually got a lot of value out of that.
Ryan gave me areas where I'm going to continue doing things well.
And he also gave me one or two areas where I could actually be thinking of making some changes and actually be producing even more.
To me, those are both positive attributes of that conversation.
I agree 100%. And what's so fascinating about this is that we have something that is both positive and productive with the way that you're describing it.
Because I think sometimes we can bring positivity into these conversations in an unproductive way.
And what I mean is that sometimes we say, Okay, well, I don't want to hurt somebody's feelings.
We're not focused on the outcome.
We're not focused on improvement.
We're focusing on placating somebody's emotional state.
And so we just sugarcoat things to the point that the person doesn't even understand that a change needs to be made.
And then that is positive in the moment, but unproductive and ultimately negative down the road.
And so I love the fact that we can productively bring in positivity.
And I think that when you are a leader or just a person who is willing to acknowledge and appreciate somebody when they are doing good things, focusing on those bright spots and validating them in that way, it gives you more license to then give that feedback where you're saying, Hey, this is constructive feedback where this is something that you might not recognize where you need to improve.
And if I'm just doom and gloom all the time where I just ignore all of your positive attributes, there's going to be a level of skepticism when I come with feedback because you're going to say, Well, of course, Kwame the dark cloud is coming.
I never do anything right with that guy.
But if I can sprinkle in true positive feedback as it makes the negative feedback a lot more legitimate in their eyes too.
Yeah. Well said, I coach organizations and leaders on obviously like you talked about, there's a manner and a method to feedback, right?
And so from a method standpoint, I coach leaders on when you're providing feedback to somebody, I heavily, heavily suggest that you do not just have constructive feedback.
Even if your intent is that you want to help the person, because to your point, when feedback is just consistently constructive, what people start thinking to themselves is, Oh, well, I don't ever do anything right.
Like I'm bringing no value because all I'm hearing, even though it might be coming from a place of good intent, all I'm hearing about are all the things that I need to be doing differently or more of or less of or whatever.
So when you're exchanging feedback that really I would highly recommend this have some data point of value.
People want they need to know that their work is valued.
I read just recently an article that said that number one reason why people stay in their jobs is because they know their work is valued.
We know the number one reason why people leave their jobs because of bad managers, but number one reason they stay in their jobs is because they know their work is valued.
And so in order for somebody to know their work is valued, they have to be hearing it consistently.
And a lot of those opportunities rely in these conversations, these feedback conversations.
So always have some piece of appreciative feedback to give to someone, even though your list of constructive might be long, that's fine.
As long as you're intent's okay, have some piece of value that you can point to and have the individual go, Hey, before we get into any constructive feedback, I want to just highlight these one or two areas where I think you're just killing it right now.
You're doing this really well.
You're doing this really well.
And here are some of the areas that I think you could consider doing things differently.
And maybe it's going to help you be more productive.
That's a pretty effective and trust building feedback conversation right there.
I agree. And I love that we ended on we have that point of trust building too, because this is part of the process.
This doesn't end at this.
This kind of feeds into the alignment piece too, because we're going to continuously interact with each other.
And if we can both give timely feedback while at the same time building trust and a lot of people's minds, it seems like those two things have a dichotomous relationship.
But really, if you approach the conversation in a productive, proactive type of way using this methodology, then you can have a conversation that where you give constructive feedback, along with positive feedback, of course, in a way that builds trust.
And I want to land the plane with this last point too, because I know in your career previously, in your professional career as a volleyball player, and now as a consultant, data plays a significant role in your decision making process and the consulting process.
And as it relates to the feedback and the tough conversations that we're having.
So can you talk about how listeners, regardless of what field they're in, can utilize data persuasively in these conversations?
Yeah, I mean, from an athletic standpoint, as you can probably imagine, we're tracking everything.
I mean, we had statistics on the effectiveness of our serve, the speed of our serve, the amount of errors, serve receives statistics, blocking statistics, hitting statistics, we were tracking a lot of those things.
And a lot of the development opportunities were based off of what we were seeing from a data standpoint.
So a lot of times when you have data available to you, they can actually govern and drive a lot of the development opportunities.
So I'm thinking about the transition into a business type of environment.
If we've got data, maybe it's a poll survey that says that on our specific team, that communication is not a strength, that's obviously a development opportunity.
If we've got data telling us that collaboration is a strength, that's a point of data saying, okay, so what we're currently doing and how we're collaborating needs to continue.
We need to continually be fostering that type of collaboration because here's the data supporting that we're actually doing that as a team.
We've got data saying that people don't trust the manager on the team.
That's a pretty significant data point for the manager.
You're not going to be able to propel a team towards a desired solution or desired outcome or finished product or whatever it is that you're working on when the people aren't trusting who's leading the project.
And so that's a pretty significant data point for that manager to go out and be like, okay, I got to obviously need to make some significant changes here so that I can get the team back on track and foster work environment that's cultivated and trust.
So I think data tends to drive a lot of potential decisions on where we need to adjust, modify, pivot, and without the data, it just becomes that much more difficult, right?
Because a lot of times you'll see a lot of teams or team leaders, they'll just kind of guess.
They're like, well, I kind of feel like we're not super collaborative as a team.
So let's try to be more collaborative, not a super strategic direction or plan versus when I actually have data available to me around the areas that we really need to focus on.
So that plays a really, really critical part as long as you've got it and it's in your ability to utilize it.
You're spot on, you're spot on.
And I think the data does a lot of the persuasive work if it's collected appropriately and delivered effectively as well.
And I wish we had more time because I would explore because there are times where people can see the data and then they, they're like, well, I see that data.
And I disagree. It's like, well, how does it?
Do you really disagree?
Or you just feel like you don't want to do this work?
But it's so critical to bring that substance to these conversations too, because we're really at the end of the day, we're letting the data decide.
So we're trying to make an objective decision and focus on the data and have a conversation about what it means for the organization.
And you bring so much more credibility to these conversations when you proven that you've done your homework.
So this is the spot on spot on.
And now, hypothetically, let's say if there are people out there who are saying, man, you know, this Ryan guy, I think he, I think he's on to something.
Maybe I want to work with him.
What would be the best way for them to connect?
Yeah, there's the age old, beautifulness of just ongoing email.
I'm wondering when AI is going to change the world of email at some point in the near future and where we're just going to be constantly bombarded with urgent messages somehow.
I don't know how it's going to look in the future, but it's pretty exciting.
My email is Ryan, just my name, R-Y-A-N, at goldm-mindset.com.
So goldm, the letter m-mindset.com altogether.
Feel free to send me an email.
You can go to my website, which is www.goldm-mindset.com as well and get in contact with me there as well.
But yeah, it would be great to potentially connect with a few of your listeners that found any of this conversation.
Interesting, Kwame, it was a pleasure connecting with you.
I'm glad that the people we know were able to connect us together and we can have this really great conversation.
So Absolutely. This was incredible, my friend.
Thank you so much for joining us, really appreciate it.
No problem. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.
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I'll catch you later.
