These are my personal opinions.
Always seek a professional when you're making choices about your mental health and well-being.
Welcome to the show.
My name is Paul Koliani.
If this is your first time tuning in, I'm glad that you are here and I don't have anything exciting to say.
I'm just going to be myself and tell you what I know.
And I'll tell you what I've learned over the years.
And this is one of those shows that hopefully teaches you how to respond and react to people and to things that happen to you.
The challenges that come to you throughout life.
This is the show about navigating the difficult challenges of life.
And I mostly talk about how we relate to others.
It's about emotional intelligence and showing up in the most not positive way, but healthiest way possible, so that you don't bring any more or any toxicity into your life.
With that out of the way, if you're a long time listener, welcome back.
Somebody wrote to me and said, Well, that's a great way to say it.
And unfortunately, I'm so sorry that you went through that.
So when I moved back home, I started work.
I had my own place and was enjoying my peace until one day I was leaving work and I saw my ex waiting for me at my vehicle.
After a brief discussion he left, but I was skeptical whether he actually left or was waiting to follow me home.
He didn't know where I live, so I went to a family member's house and we did a vehicle switch to see if my ex was following me.
It worked.
He did follow me, and wasn't he surprised when he walked up on my car and saw somebody else getting out of it?
Wow, that's scary actually, but I'll read on here.
Things for him and I are non-existent.
I do see him occasionally, but now when I see him, I feel some type of way about him and I'm not sure how to handle it or what I should be doing.
When I see him, I get very agitated and short with him.
I have no tolerance for him at all.
I'd rather smack the hell out of him than stand to look at him.
I'm mean to him and I say hurtful things.
I don't like being this way to him or to anyone for that matter.
It's not who I am.
I've tried to be nice and tolerate him.
I know now that he and I will never be together again.
He does ask me occasionally about us getting back together and I don't respond.
I either totally ignore or change the subject.
Is this a normal response?
I'm doing well.
I see my family every day and I couldn't ask for anything more.
I have a strong family support and I feel safe and comfortable with them again.
And so that's it.
That's how she ended the letter.
And I want to thank her for writing that.
And I'm so sorry that you're going through that.
And the quick answer to your question, or at least the first thing I want to say or comment on, is your response to him saying And yes, I understand that's not who you are, but you are also dealing with somebody who's very much a stalker, following you around and not honoring your boundaries.
You have boundaries.
You said, no, no is enough.
You don't need to say anything else.
And if he follows you and you say, don't ever do this again.
Don't ever show up at my work.
Don't ever follow me in your car ever again.
And that isn't honored.
That is a total violation of your boundaries.
And you have every right to be angry and mean what you call mean with somebody who violates your boundaries like that.
This isn't you being mean.
This is you trying to convey a message to someone who won't listen.
And when somebody won't listen, you will get more and more agitated.
Because I'm pretty sure if you ran into him at the grocery store and he said something like Hey, I'm so sorry for you know, following you that day and I've moved on and I'm so sorry,
I hope you're having a great life.
And I promise I'm not just here, you know, trying to follow you again.
I just happen to be here and I hope you have a great day.
And then he moves on, doesn't ask any questions, doesn't mention getting back together again.
I'm pretty sure if he said that and you didn't see him again, or if you did run into him again he just waved and kept moving on that your tolerance for him would, or at least seeing him, your tolerance for seeing him would, increase not that you want to see him, but you wouldn't feel like you had to be quote mean.
You wouldn't feel like you had to say anything.
You would just feel relief that you don't have to deal with it.
So what we're looking at here is From my perspective.
What we're looking at is someone who hasn't let you go, hasn't left you alone, hasn't honored your boundaries.
And you have every right to be angry.
And you have every right to say things that are sharp and hurtful because he won't listen.
When somebody doesn't listen, sometimes we have to get more assertive.
And sometimes it feels like we have to be out of character.
We have to act out of character in order for them to hear the message.
It's just like somebody in an abusive relationship where they feel like they aren't heard or they know they aren't heard.
They aren't understood.
They aren't listened to as far as them saying, I wish you wouldn't do that.
And the other person keeps doing it.
Until the point where they reach the threshold of their toleration and they say, that's enough.
I've had enough.
And they have to become, quote, mean.
And I'm quoting that because it's not mean to honor yourself.
It's not mean to tell somebody, I don't want you to do this.
I don't want you to do this anymore, ever again.
And if they do it again, of course you're going to be angry because they violated your boundaries.
And this is tricky because, you know, the first thing I think about is restraining order.
If he doesn't listen to you and he's following you around, it feels like a restraining order.
But I know sometimes it's difficult to get because you know they might say what's he doing to you.
And he's following me around.
Well, do you feel threatened?
And you might say yes, you might say no, or.
You might just realize that it's not really a threat.
It's just a huge problem in other ways.
And it's hard to convince authorities of that.
So I'm not saying that you should or shouldn't do that.
But I'm thinking about me in your shoes.
I wouldn't want this person that I broke up with following me around.
That's just not right.
And I think it's even scarier that it's a man.
I'm just going to be honest.
It's a man following a woman around and not honoring her boundaries.
That's a problem.
So this person who wrote, I'm so sorry that you've been through this.
I hope it has stopped.
Because you don't deserve this behavior.
You don't deserve someone who doesn't take your no for real.
No means no.
Stop means stop.
And if they don't accept that, then you just have to be assertive or aggressive and let them know that this is not right.
It's not tolerable.
And you might have to say that in ways that sound mean.
Now, anyone listening that says you shouldn't give that advice because what if he's dangerous?
Of course not.
I'm hoping that you understand that if you believe he's dangerous, then that's a different story.
I'm not going to say be mean to somebody who's dangerous because then you're in a bad situation.
In many cases where there's been this kind of behavior yes, there can be obsessive thinking, or there is obsessive thinking behind it, because clearly somebody who stalks is thinking obsessively because they're not honoring your no, your N-O.
And when they don't honor it.
That means they're continuing to think about different ways to reach you, to connect with you, to get you to change your mind, to come back with them.
Please come back to me.
I'll treat you right.
I'm going to stalk you until you come back to me.
It makes no sense.
It's ridiculous when I say it out loud.
Please, I love you so much.
I want to follow you to the ends of the earth.
Even though you seem to hate me, I want you in my life because I want people who hate me in my life.
It doesn't make any sense.
When you've made your intentions clear, When you've made your boundaries clear and somebody keeps violating them, how in the world can they expect you to want them back?
So I know I'm just highlighting the obvious, but some people might need to hear that.
When you are the stocky one S-T-A-L-K.
When you're the stocky one, don't expect somebody to suddenly have affection for you because you are creepy.
You are being creepy by following somebody around.
So if anyone needs to hear this, that is a red flag that somebody is going to see you as a lot worse than you're trying to portray yourself as, because showing up at somebody's work when they don't want to see you anymore, when you are the X and you know, it's one thing to run into them, or it's another thing that you had something great at one time and There wasn't any manipulation or deception and you broke up, for whatever reason.
And then you show up at their work and you say, hey, I just want to talk to you.
And they say, fine, let's just talk.
And then you talk and it still doesn't work out.
And then the person who showed up says okay, I'll leave you alone because it's not going to work out.
And then they go off on their own.
That's a different thing.
That's a different scenario.
What I'm talking about is somebody who's following you around and probably trying to text you and call you and leave messages and getting a hold of people that you know and asking what you're doing and how you're doing and asking does she ever talk about me, or whatever.
That kind of person is not clear in their head.
They are thinking obsessively.
They are wondering how to get a hold of you and trying new things to do it.
And it's interesting because in my twenties, I felt this way.
I felt like if I just showed up more often to my ex's work or left a note on her car when she didn't want to be in a relationship with me.
From my 55 year old brain now I look back at my 22 or 23 year old brain and I think wow, you have a lot to learn and you are creeping her out because you're showing up in these little covert ways and leaving messages.
It's almost like you want her to feel as if she's being followed.
I wish I could go back in time and talk to my younger self and say what you're doing is very harmful because you're obsessing.
And of course, anyone in obsessive or obsessing mode is not going to hear that, because they're obsessing.
It's obsessive behavior.
And so to the person who wrote this man is obsessed with you or he has been, according to this message because he won't leave you alone.
And that does present a danger in itself, because obsessive people typically will amplify what they're doing until they get what they want.
Not everyone.
Some people are just so insecure and they're trying to get the other person back in their life so that they can displace that insecurity with the other person.
And they don't seem to take into account how the other person feels.
So they allow their insecurity to lead the way.
And then there are the more dangerous people, who are highly insecure still and also following through with their insecurity and but won't take no for an answer, no matter what.
And those are the ones that are, they can be very dangerous.
And so to this person who wrote, no, you're not being mean.
You're trying to convey a message.
Or you were trying to convey the message that you are done.
You don't want to see this person anymore.
And they still show up.
And because they still show up, you have to be this way.
I mean, this is me allowing you or giving you permission to be this way.
It's not mean.
It's protection.
It's self-protection.
You need to protect yourself.
And if being assertive or aggressive toward this person is not enough, then something else needs to be done, maybe.
And you mentioned a family member and that family member got involved.
And I, again, I hope that this isn't happening anymore.
I hope that things are different now and things are better for you now.
But if they aren't and this is still happening then there needs to be some accountability so that this person will stop.
And I don't know if you have a tendency to be nice or too nice sometimes and he senses that.
Like he senses you holding back.
That can happen.
Some obsessive people will look for any tiny, tiny little sliver of kindness and compassion and think, oh good, there's a chance.
I mean, that's that line from Dumb and Dumber.
That's probably not the most quoted movie in history, at least for a personal development show, emotional intelligence.
But I'm going to quote it.
Where Jim Carrey's character wants this girl as his girlfriend throughout most of the movie.
And she doesn't want anything to do with him.
He's just too weird and dumb.
And he asked her, what are my chances?
You know, of us getting together, what are my chances?
And she said, one in a million.
And which is an astronomical number that is basically saying never.
And if you haven't seen the movie and you want to see this part, it is a great part.
So I would suggest you fast forward about 15 seconds if you don't want to hear it, because spoiler alert this is going to happen.
So Jim Carrey's character basically says so you're saying there's a chance that And that's a big laugh in the movie, because that wasn't what she meant.
But that's how his character took it.
And that shows the kind of obsessive thinking that some people have.
They look for any tiny sliver of hope and they grab onto it.
And instead of that being 0.01% of a chance, it becomes something much bigger.
That means a much greater chance of getting back together because of that tiny sliver of compassion or kindness or whatever that person conveyed.
Not even intentionally, probably, because the obsessive person is looking for it.
And so to the person who wrote, if you have tried to be nice, and said hey, you know you shouldn't drive all the way down here, because I already told you we're not going to be together.
That's being nice.
But if you've already said that, if you've already said no, stop being nice.
Whatever that means to you.
I'm not trying to say that you need to smack them in the face or anything like that.
I'm just saying it's okay to be or have the attitude and be quote mean in order to make them understand that this is unacceptable.
And just be aware of your own emotional state.
Because if you say, look, I don't want you around here anymore.
Please go away.
And don't come back.
Even though that is exactly what somebody should listen to and obey.
They should abide by your wishes.
If that comes out in a way that sounds a little bit caring and trying to protect his feelings, it can give him hope.
And so and again, you know, if he's a dangerous person, violent person, you don't want to say this.
You don't want to get into these conversations.
But if he's just so desperate and he's always just hanging around or always just coincidentally bumping into you, then it's time to be firm.
And that might sound like, I don't want to see you go away.
I don't want to see you go away.
And if he starts to talk, go away.
And if he starts to talk again, go away, go away.
You're making me hate you.
The more I see you, the more I hate you.
I'm not showing kindness.
I'm being real.
I'm being direct.
Again, I'm not saying that this is the advice you should follow.
I'm saying that there's a point where being nice or kind or sparing someone's feelings goes away because they're not listening.
So it's time to take more action.
So don't do this if you feel unsafe.
I'm just responding to your message where you said you felt mean by saying these hurtful things to him.
But it's not hurtful.
It's self-protective.
If he gets hurt, it's his own fault, because he's putting himself in the position to be hurt by following somebody around who has already said no.
So he's hurting himself.
He's hurting himself by going to someone and trying to get them back when they don't want to be back.
They don't want to be back together with him.
So why is he exposing himself to opportunities to be hurt?
That's his fault.
If he's standing in front of a campfire and it gets too big and too hot and he doesn't move, that's his fault.
He needs to move to get away from the heat.
And if he doesn't, then he can't blame the fire.
He can only blame himself.
So you are protecting yourself.
You are showing him that you are done and this is not going to happen.
And by him not obeying that, he's hurting himself.
That is his doing, not yours.
And the fact that you said, I have tried to be nice and tolerate him reminds me of another movie.
The other one is Roadhouse with Patrick Swayze.
He's teaching the other bouncers, be nice until it's time to not be nice.
And that's when you have to be assertive.
Good movie to teach that lesson, I think.
You've been nice, so now it's time to be okay not being nice.
That is my opinion.
It is not my suggestion.
It's not my advice.
I'm putting myself in your shoes and expressing how I would respond to the situation.
I'm a guy.
It's different.
If a woman was following me around, I might be able to overpower her, depending on who it was, but it would still be creepy.
And maybe I couldn't, maybe she was stronger than me or had a weapon or whatever, saying that it could happen.
And if it does, then it's time to not be nice.
And I don't want to have to go there because I'm not like that.
But here I am and she's not listening to what I'm saying.
So it's time to be firm and no longer being nice because I tried that.
So your question at the end, this person who wrote, she said, is this a normal response?
Yes.
Damn it.
It's a normal response to be upset and angry at someone who does not honor your no.
And again, I hope you're out of that mess.
But if you aren't, then I'm glad you have family.
I'm glad you have a support system that you can be with.
And if you have to take further steps, you might have to.
I can't guide you there.
I don't know where that leads you or what happens there after that.
But um, i'm just telling you it's okay to be upset, it's okay to be mad, it's okay to feel like you want to smack him, and i understand all of that, and it's not wrong and it is normal to feel that way, because you can only take so much, we can only take so much from another person until we have to put a stop to it.
Thanks for writing.
I appreciate you.
Good luck with this.
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I want to read you another message that kind of the same vibe, but in the opposite direction.
This person wrote, my husband tells me to find someone else whenever we have a disagreement.
He says he's not what I want and I should just go find someone better suited for me.
I think he might be right.
He took a job in another state about a year ago, so we've been living apart.
I can't relocate because I share a child with my ex who refuses to grant us relocation.
Lawyers say this and that and I'm not going to read you everything here, but I guess her husband said I thought you'd come to your senses and live with me so that we can have a good life.
And you're only appeasing your ex by staying over there.
And he can't understand that it's not my choice.
He needs to live his own life.
On top of this, he is starting to become what I believe is emotionally abusive.
But he tells me I'm controlling, that I don't want him to enjoy his life and that I'm selfish and that I'm using him.
I've broken down crying and he tells me I'm being ridiculous and stupid and acting like a child.
He threatens to end it often and says we should just go our separate ways.
But then he comes back as a totally different person.
I'm exhausted.
I've been doing it all, working, household, being a parent.
I'm tired of doing it alone.
When we're together, we end up arguing because he brings up how I could be living with him, but I won't.
And so now we're coming to the end of his time in the other state.
But he continues to remind me he doesn't want to come back because we can't have a decent life here.
I feel like we can make it work, but it would be better than being apart.
But now I'm wondering if we should just end it.
I'm lost and hurt, but I love this man and I never wanted to do life without him.
I'm hanging on to the good times, but they've been so few and far between.
I'm sick and confused.
Oh, geez.
I'm so sorry you're going through that.
And I wanted to read this. because it is sort of the opposite.
Somebody who is not obsessive at all and in fact doesn't seem to care if the relationship ends, but then says all kinds of things to make this person who wrote feel bad and make her feel like she's doing the wrong thing and make her feel guilty and trying to paint her as wanting to be near her ex and all this ridiculous stuff.
Because he's trying to make her do what he wants her to do regardless of how she feels about it.
Which definitely is emotionally abusive.
Everything she described is emotionally abusive.
So in the first segment, the first message that I received, that guy was obsessive trying to get her back.
And in this message, he seems to not want her around at all.
And he threatens to leave and he always says, you should go find somebody else.
But he's, let me just be clear about this.
He's doing all of that to make you feel bad and say what he wants to hear.
He knows that you're a kind compassionate caring, supportive person, because this is who a lot of manipulative people take advantage of.
They know that if they can trick the kind caring, compassionate person into into thinking that they're a bad person, that they will do a 180 and come back to the relationship, because they don't want to be seen that way.
That is one of the main points I want to make about this message is that if you're kind, if you're caring, if you're compassionate, if you're supportive, if you're loving, if you're gentle, somebody who's manipulative and controlling will use those qualities to to make you feel bad about yourself, that you're not being that way even though that's not what's happening here but they make you think you're being that way so that you will access those qualities in you and give in to the control and manipulation.
They want you to give in to your own good qualities so that you will follow the path they want you to follow.
This is very typical abusive behavior.
I've seen it with religion.
Religious abuse works like this.
God wants you to do this.
That's what somebody who is being abusive, whose partner is religious or has religious beliefs.
They will use religion against them and say well, God would be upset if you didn't do that.
They're bringing God into the picture to make the other person do what they want to do.
That's sick.
It's not healthy at all.
It's very toxic.
And when somebody does that, when they use what's good in your life against you or as a way to manipulate you, it is highly abusive.
Anyone that uses the good in you turn you around to access that good in order to submit to their control.
Do what they want you to do is being abusive.
So to this person you said I think what he's turning into is emotionally abusive.
Yeah, he's already there, he's already doing it.
He's calling you controlling and And he's the one who's controlling.
He's projecting that so that you don't focus on him.
You focus on yourself.
And I can't imagine if my wife was crying if I called her ridiculous and stupid and acting like a child.
I can't imagine that ever happening because I love her.
It doesn't make any sense for me to see somebody that I love breaking down crying, and for me to put them down for doing it.
So now he's taking your vulnerabilities, your vulnerable space of crying and feeling lost and hurt and confused, and using that against you too.
This is how abuse works.
They will exploit what's good.
They will exploit what's vulnerable.
And anything they can exploit to make you reflect on your own behaviors, so that you don't see what they're doing to you.
You don't see how they're manipulating you.
And because kind and caring people have all these wonderful qualities manipulative and controlling people Know that they can use those qualities as a way to get what they want.
So I'm here to say especially to this person who wrote I'm so sorry again for what you've gone through and what you're going through.
But no matter how nice they are.
When somebody uses all your good qualities and all your vulnerabilities as a way to control you, as a way to make you feel bad about yourself, that is abuse.
And you should take it seriously because it is emotionally mentally, psychologically and sometimes physically damaging, because you can feel sick over it.
You can feel it in your body.
You will break down.
You will feel ill because of it.
All of this is so important to your health, your mental and physical health.
So pay attention to what is being exploited.
Pay attention.
If you are a follower of some religious belief and that religion is used against you to control you, that is abuse.
And the people who do it usually have done it most of their life and they know how to make you feel bad.
Because you don't want to, at least in the case with religious abuse, you don't want to go against your religion.
So they find ways to make it sound like you're going against your religion.
Or in every other case where they're using your kind wonderful qualities against you.
You don't want to be seen as the bad guy.
You don't want to be seen as someone who's not compassionate, someone who's not caring and supportive and loving.
And they will find ways to say, you're not being kind.
You're not being compassionate.
How could you do this to me?
How could you do this to our kids?
How could you do this?
Because a kind, caring, compassionate person doesn't do that.
That's what they'll say.
That's what they will say to make you focus on yourself, so that you don't focus on them, so that you pay attention to what you're doing.
So there's no accountability on their part.
There's no responsibility.
There's no accountability whatsoever.
And you deal with yourself and do what I want you to do.
And if you don't, I'm going to make sure that you feel bad if you don't.
And these are the ways I'm going to do it.
So I'm telling you all this so you don't feel guilty.
So you don't feel awful like you're an awful human being.
Because that's what they're attempting to do.
When somebody does this to you, they're attempting to make you focus on all your qualities and reflect on what you're doing wrong and how you're not following through.
It's just like the last message that I talked about.
The person said, I don't want to be mean.
I don't want to be this person.
And I guarantee you that the guy that was stalking her knows that she doesn't want to be this person and will probably try to paint her as that person.
How could you say this to me?
He might say, how could you do this to me?
That's not like you.
I can't believe you're pushing me away when I care about you so much.
Why would you do that to somebody who cares about you?
These words are very manipulative.
Don't fall for it.
And a lot of us do.
We fall for the manipulations because these people are very good at doing what they do.
But I'm here to hopefully help you burn it into your brain.
When somebody is using and I'm going to repeat myself here when somebody is using your wonderful qualities against you or your vulnerabilities against you, when they use those as mechanisms to control you,
And make you do what they want you to do.
It is abusive.
So be gentle on yourself.
If you feel like you are turning into somebody that you don't like.
But it's actually happening because somebody else is making you feel that way.
They don't want that to happen to you.
I want to thank both people for writing today and for providing the content for today's episode.
Not a pleasant subject, but I think a very important one.
And I hope it helped both of you and everyone else listening.
Thank you for joining me for another episode of The Overwhelmed Brain.
I want to thank the patrons of the week.
Brad, always good to see you.
Stephen, always good to see you.
And Ashley, always good to see you.
Thank you so much for your support.
And if you've been listening a while, these people have been supporting for years and literally years and years.
And I am so grateful.
Thank you for your generosity.
I appreciate everyone who gives, everyone who listens, everyone who donates.
Thank you all.
And if you value this show like these patrons do, and you want to give back, head over to moretobcom and there are options to do that over there.
And for a show on how to navigate difficult relationships, listen to my other podcast, where we really dive into the weeds over at loveandabusecom.
And if you know you're the difficult one in the relationship, join the program that is helping a lot of people heal over at healedbeingcom, where you can stop emotionally abusive behavior and start being the healthiest person you can in all your relationships.
Again, that's over at healedbeing.com.
And with that, always keep your mind open because that's how you make the best decisions.
And be firm in your decisions and actions so that you can create the life you want.
Always take steps to grow and evolve.
You are powerful beyond measure.
And above all, and this is something I absolutely know to be true about you, you are amazing.
