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So there are scientific studies out there that have proven that with consistent meditation practice, consistent mindfulness meditation practice, that your pain sensitivity actually decreases.
Have you ever wished you had a wise meditation teacher on speed dial?
Someone you can call after a long day.
Someone you could lean on for their advice.
Someone to listen and help you to see things differently.
Welcome to Dear Headspace.
Hello everyone. And here we are with another episode of Deer Headspace, a podcast where I sit down with one of our meditation teachers and we answer your questions about life, love and everything in between.
I'm Robyn Hopkins. And in this episode, it's me and Keisunga.
Great to be back with you, Robyn.
It is so good to be with you.
You know how I love it.
Yeah, it's always a lot of fun.
It's always so insightful.
And it's wild because I always take something away also.
Well, so listen, I've got a treat for you today.
Oh, okay. Okay. I like treats.
Okay. What you got?
What you got, Robert?
Well, I know that you often use rapid fire questions in your interviews.
And in the spirit of getting to know our teachers a little bit more today, we decided we're going to flip the script on you.
Oh, my goodness. Okay.
Are you ready for some rapid fire questions?
I am down. I am down.
All right, here we go.
what hobby would you get into if time and money weren't an issue?
Visiting and exploring every single beach on the planet.
Oh my god, I love that!
Okay what question would you most like to know the answer to?
Um what happens after we die?
Yeah, that's that's that's funny.
That's mine, too. Okay.
Okay. Yeah, because it's just it's the, it's got to be one of the biggest questions of our of our life.
Yeah, absolutely. Okay.
Who inspires you to be better?
What pops into my head right away is my father.
Oh, my father's ethic and integrity is like second to none.
Especially because I know where he came from.
Yeah, you know, I know his background, from being an immigrant, and all of the ridiculous adventure that he's been through.
Oh, that's beautiful.
Okay, now this question we are asking to all the teachers.
Okay, all right. If you had one wish that's not for the betterment of humanity, but for the betterment of Ksanga, what would it be?
Okay, I'm saying what pops into my head right away first, is for me to somehow obtain and possess the super powers that I wish for.
Oh, okay. But now you have to say what's your super power that you would want?
Teleportation. Shut up!
That's my super power!
I'm always like, everyone always chooses flying.
I'm like why would you choose that when you could just be like, and mine was be attached to blinking and I'd be like, I'm on the Caribbean on the beach in the Caribbean for lunch boom, and I'm back in my office boom teleportation and I go back and forth with Immortality, I I go back and forth with that, you know Okay, my last and final question to you in honor of some of our questions today We are because we're talking about dealing with pain.
What's the most physical pain that you have ever been in?
Okay the most physical pain Right away I have to say so I'm really big in tattoos.
I have a few tattoos.
Yeah so my left lower leg is completely covered.
I have a sleeve and that who yeah because that's near bone like that is that sounds and I have yes like a like a shin also a shin piece involved.
Oh, yeah. Robin, when I say that that pain was excruciating, if it wasn't for the emotional and spiritual attachment that I had for the tattoo, then I couldn't have gotten through with it.
And I did it in one sitting.
Oh my God. I think it was like maybe like six, seven hours.
Holy crap. Not at one time.
Like no, we took breaks, but because I knew if I left, I was gonna come back.
Ah, I love it. Well, mission accomplished.
Getting to know Keisunga, check.
So well, now we're gonna move on to our listener questions.
And I am telling you today, we have some really important questions about dealing with a controlling parent, navigating judgment from others when you are sick and how to use mindfulness to deal with pain.
So I am super excited to hear these questions and here is our first one from Candace.
Hi, this is Candace from Portland, Oregon, and my question revolves around...
I had a traumatic childhood, especially with my mom being really controlling, and it's definitely played a role on me now as an adult.
I have always struggled with having compassion and confidence within myself, and I'm always looking for it from friends which has made it difficult to just like be confident with myself relying on others for that and my question is do you have any tips to alleviate that or to help me strengthen my own compassion for myself?
I've been made meditating for about six years now, and I'm still struggling with it So if there's anything you can do to help me deal with this I would really appreciate it.
Thank you for your time This kind of just speaks to a theory that all of the issues that We deal with as adults, you know just kind of coming out of the psychodynamic approach It stems from our childhood experiences.
It doesn't just disappear when we become adults.
It doesn't magically disappear.
We hold on to these traumas and it affects how we move through life.
So, you know, Candace, I just want to say, first and foremost, just thank you for stepping into this space of vulnerability and asking this question.
I know it's not always easy to be this vulnerable, so thank you for that.
Secondly, I think it's fantastic that you have this knowledge of why you are experiencing what you're experiencing.
You know, I heard you say some low self -esteem if you will, or some dealing with decreased levels of self -compassion.
you know, oftentimes we go through life and we don't know why we behave in certain ways.
You know, we don't know why we make certain choices but what I'm hearing from you, Candace, is that you do know why.
You know that it's stemming from this trauma that you've experienced as a child.
But it also sounds like you have this knowledge.
And at the same time, you're also creating some stories as to what's going on.
And that's so common. That's just how we behave oftentimes as humans.
What I would encourage you to try on is what I call like, a full stop.
Right? What do I mean by this?
So you are aware that you're behaving in a certain way it might have ill effects on Whatever the situation might be right and so then you say okay, I know that I'm behaving in the space of low self -esteem low self -compassion I know it's because of my situation with my mother and what have you but then it seems like you are then shifting into the storytelling like what you make it mean right And so what I would encourage you to do right there, full stop.
Just even if you need to have like a, I sometimes use my hand like the stop sign, like stop.
Just pause because now you're getting into a space of falsehood, right?
So you state what's true.
This is what I'm feeling, low self -esteem, low self -compassion, what have you.
I know it's because of this, that and the other with my mother, full stop because that is, what's true.
That's what's happening.
Once you recognize that you're now starting to create stories that may or may not be true.
That's where the awareness of that has to allow you to just pause for a moment.
Well, can I ask you a question about this?
Just so I make sure I'm hearing it right.
So let's just say I'm making up this example.
let's just say I say my mother used to hit me as a child.
My full stop is there because that's the fact.
But like if I move on and I then say and because of that, I am afraid of intimacy, I'm afraid of relationships is that like, and that's the part that's the story.
What's hard for me to pull apart in this is that I do feel like there are those connections of like, you know I may be much more likely not to want to let someone in because that happened.
So I'm trying to figure out how you find out where the stop point is.
For sure. So with Candace, what I'm hearing from her is that she's aware that her mother was controlling what have you.
Because my mother was controlling, I know that I have issues with my self -esteem, I have issues with self -compassion.
And so from there, it might move into a space of I'm a terrible person or something is wrong with me because I can't show compassion to my friends or my friends don't like me, um, what's wrong with me.
Um, I can't make friends.
So now you're, you're starting to create, um, stories based on and, on what happened.
So it's, it's like, when you start to say the limitations or the things that you can't do, or the things that are, you know, like that's what I think about.
It's self -talk. The self -deprecating negative talk that we often do beating ourselves up.
And what I do here is great – I think Candace mentioned she's been meditating for six years?
Six years, yeah. Yeah.
I mean, that's awesome.
I would be curious what her meditation practice looks like because the meditation practice doesn't automatically mean that everything is going to be perfectly OK right away, you know?
So I would encourage you, Candace, keep on practicing.
Keep on moving forward with your practice.
There's no timeline, right?
There's no fixed timeline to perfection, if you will, that you're looking for, and speaking of perfection, it sounds like there's some expectations that you are bringing to your practice.
So being aware of that also.
I would make the assumption also that hand in hand with the practice may be some healing work, like seeing a therapist, if that's available to you or group therapy or something like journaling.
Like just some healing work too.
Absolutely. I would definitely recommend seeking out some professional help, as in the form of psychotherapy or counseling.
And you know what I would really honestly recommend is a retreat.
Ooh, yeah. A silent retreat, I think, would be really powerful.
Because with a silent retreat, you take all distractions away as far as, you know, technology, even reading, writing, right?
It's really just you with you.
If you haven't done a silent retreat before, maybe starting out with a three -day, I think would go a long way for you, Candace.
And again, even if you decide to participate in this kind of retreat, allowing yourself to shed any expectations, and really, just as with your practice, you've been practicing for six years, just as with your practice, just seeing what happens.
Yeah. That gentle and kind curiosity.
Excellent, excellent advice, Kisunga.
And thank you again, Candice, for your question, that was really wonderful, and good luck.
Absolutely. Thank you, Candice.
Okay, here is our next question.
Dear Headspace, this is Clemens from Germany.
I'm in my late 20s and would describe myself as a cheerful, interested, and dedicated person.
But since a few years my physical and mental health got more into focus.
I had to deal with anxiety and stress but I made good progress about it.
What still throws me off though, is that I get sick quite often and have to stop working for a week or two.
In the last three months for example, I had to stay at home for a total of four weeks and couldn't work or meet friends as I had a flu and a sinus itis.
This frustrates me so much as I really enjoy working and being active.
But also regarding how much I invest into my wellbeing with sports, good food, meditation, enough sleep or checking with doctors if necessary.
I simply don't see a reason why I should be more sick than others and feel like everyone is judging me for being sick again.
I even get comments about it from time to time.
So how can I learn to accept this state and not get too frustrated about it.
Thank you very much. Best wishes, Clemens.
Thank You Clemens. Absolutely, thank you.
Thank you, Clemens.
And this is a great question and similar sentiment to our previous question.
The umbrella of mindfulness, I often say is awareness.
And that's what I'm hearing a lot of with Clemens.
Just a ton of awareness.
He's in tune with what's happening with him moment by moment.
I mean, how many times did he mention acceptance?
And then being kind to himself.
So, you know, don't, don't, you know, the answers are there for you Clemens, but I think this is also a clear, clear case of its easier said than done.
Right. We could have all of the answers in the world, you know?
How can I practice acceptance?
How can I just be present?
And so we have the knowledge, it's just like exercising.
We have the knowledge.
I sure do. But do I always make it to the gym?
So this is a clear case of easiest and then done.
And so, There's also a lot of judgment in this question too.
Fear of judgment from others, which I really get.
It's hard not to worry what people think about you.
Especially when he's heard it.
That's what pinged for me I heard him say he's even heard it from some of his friends.
So how do you let go of these stories that you create in your mind, when they are reinforced?
Yes. When they're reinforced by society, especially.
I think he said he's in Germany, but in the US there's a real like you better pick yourself up by your bootstraps.
You better like show up to work.
And then only around COVID and a few years prior to that where people like, oh, don't come in, you're going to get me sick.
But prior to that, it was like you powered through.
Yeah. And then so I don't know how you don't pick up judgment from that.
I think it boils down to choices, right?
It boils down to the choices that you make.
So he's aware of the stories that he's creating.
He's aware of the narratives that, that are flowing through his mind.
And in some instances how they're getting reinforced by quote unquote friends, right?
So in this case, I would say, Clemence, you have a choice.
You have a choice on which narrative you want to follow.
Because what I also heard him say at the very beginning is, I'm a very cheerful person, I'm a very interesting and dedicated person.
Yeah, yeah, he did say that.
So he has this image of himself in a positive light.
But it sounds like he's choosing to focus on this negative narrative as a result of the frequent sickness and what have you that he's experiencing.
So what I would encourage you to do, Clemens, is choose to lean on that narrative of positivity, of your cheerfulness.
Focus on the cheerful characteristics, focus on the fact that you are an interesting person.
What makes you interesting?
You mentioned you're a dedicated person.
OK. Let's dig into that more.
Focus on that more versus just focusing on the negative.
I wonder if during this time, especially when he's sick, if he wouldn't benefit from either meditation that's centered around this, or journaling affirmations, so that he can remind himself exactly who he is, and who he knows himself to be outside of what he thinks other people think of him because I know that when I do affirmations, like in the first time it's like, I believe, I believe silly, but then by the 10th one I'm like, yeah, like it's like, yeah, I am that.
You know, it's the more that I get into that space, I start to remind myself of all the things that match up to what I believe versus what I think other people think of me.
Yeah, I love that Robin.
It sounds like he's there, right?
He's at the point where he knows that about himself.
Yeah. I know that I'm interesting.
I know that I'm dedicated I know that I'm cheerful but however so and so said this to me, right?
Exactly. So yeah. No, I would definitely recommend that for sure That's a great suggestion and you know, I also I think oftentimes that when someone is judging you It's not about you.
It's about them. Yeah, I want to mention his practice You know and encourage him to keep on practicing, you know.
I know in times of difficulty, it may be that much harder to lean on your practice because we have this idea in our minds that because we practice, it's supposed to be a certain way.
So again, letting go of those expectations because those expectations is what can really hinder what's going on with you.
So with practice, I use the analogy oftentimes of brushing your teeth, right?
because I often say mindfulness and meditation is not just exercises and techniques you use when you're feeling stressed.
It's a lifestyle shift, right?
So, you know, no matter how angry or sad you are, you always brush your teeth, right?
You don't just brush your teeth one time and then expect your teeth to be right.
Your teeth are fully healthy forever.
So, So it's the same thing with mindfulness and meditation.
It's not a one shot deal type of thing.
It's not a 10 month deal type of thing.
We really do as humans have this idea that we want to just be fixed.
And it's like I want to go to a repairman slash therapist and I want them to tell me the five things that I need to do and I want to be fixed and then I want to go on into and happily ever after.
All right. This is a lifestyle.
Yeah. Just like we mentioned, exercise exercise and dieting before.
Yeah, you know you get yourself in that tip -top shape that you desire and let you know it's not like you can just now Eat whatever you want.
Yeah, you know, it's a lifestyle.
Yeah, it's a complete shift. So and also I am curious If you know seeking a professional help would be good for you also Clemons Oh, ditto absolutely work management platforms Endless onboarding, IT bottlenecks, admin requests, but what if things were different?
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OK, let's go on to question number three.
Hi, my name is, I'm from the United Kingdom and I'm wondering how I can use mindfulness to help deal with pain and other uncomfortable physical sensations within my body.
Ooh. A quick but very engaging question.
I was just settling in to really listen and then I was like, oh, that's the question.
So, Jack didn't give a whole lot.
Didn't give a whole lot here.
Isn't man a few words?
That's all right. We got a lot to work with.
Yeah. I would have some follow -up questions for Jack.
I would be curious as to what kind of pain or discomfort he's dealing with?
Is it acute, or is it a chronic type of pain that he's been dealing with for a long time?
Well, let's make some assumptions.
Let's start with chronic and let's - Okay.
Someone who's going through a chronic regular all the time, I liken it to that dull ache of a back pain that just is there with you and makes your life uncomfortable.
Let's start there. Well, chronic pain is very different from acute pain because chronic pain is that animal that allows you to just create all these stories.
You know, I'm not able here it is again, I'll never be able to do this.
What's wrong with me, you know, those type of...
Why didn't I listen to my body?
Why didn't I...? Yes.
We're as acute pain.
Acute pain as well, we're talking about my tattoos.
That's acute pain. Yeah, that you can grind down, and you can breath through it.
Because I know that there's a finish line.
I know, a few more hours.
Oh my God. I just had a childbirth flashback.
Thanks, Kizonga. I was like, I couldn't get through this, it's gonna be okay.
Yeah. this is magical.
That's what they say.
Yeah. So with Jack, with Jack, I am curious also if he has a mindfulness or meditation practice already in place.
You know, he didn't mention that.
So and if he does, how does it how does it look?
Let's say he doesn't.
What would you what would you recommend?
Or or it's a waning practice.
What would you I would I would encourage him to to step into his practice, lean into his practice a little more.
Especially because he's dealing with this pain and discomfort, because another question I would ask him is what are his personal thoughts pertaining to his pain and discomfort?
Say more about that.
Well, you know, how does he view this, this discomfort or this, this physical ailment that he's dealing with?
Is he optimistic about it?
Does he have negative feelings about it?
Is he facing it with resistance, you know, with those negative stories that we were talking about?
And again, circling back to his practice, I would ask him, you know, how is your meditation practice, going.
How consistent is your practice?
And so with pain, particularly, consistency is so important.
Consistency with your meditation practice, your mindfulness practice.
You know, there are tons of research out there that points to the science behind mindfulness meditation.
So this whole idea of neuroplasticity, which states that with consistent practice, your brain actually changes.
The neural networks of your brain, it changes with growth and with reorganization.
So there are scientific studies out there that have proven that with consistent meditation practice consistent mindfulness meditation practice that your pain sensitivity actually decreases so meaning that before the before the project your pain sensitivity might have been at like a 9 or 10 yeah but then afterwards after consistent practice for you know set amount of time you now rate your pain sensitivity at like a five.
So one of the best bits of advice that I ever got about pain management was from one of the nurses when I was in labor with my first kid, and it was something I had never thought about.
The contracture was coming, and I was just, clenched teeth, like tightening everything, and she just put her hands on my lower back, and she said, she said, I know that this is gonna be really counterintuitive.
She said, but I want you to breathe into the pain.
and she said, the more that you're clenching, the more that you're fighting it, she said, you're actually, it's going to be more painful.
And I, yeah, yeah, and I, I didn't even know I was doing it, but it was like I was holding on for dear life.
And I have used that for the next 14 years.
Like when I go to the dentist and I'm a little scared or like for that acute pain that you were referring to or anytime like I'm about to get a shot, I catch myself clenching and then I'm like stop breathe when and it's always better when I can release my muscles and calm myself down some.
It seems like so like that would be so obvious, but it really wasn't.
I don't even think I had any going back to awareness I had no awareness I was even doing it.
Because pain is like that right?
Pain is that if there's anything that makes you automatically react, it's physical pain.
Sure is. It's physical pain, you know.
But to highlight that formula we spoke to a few episodes ago, we talked about stress or pain times resistance equals suffering.
Yeah. Right. Which basically just talks about the amount of resistance that you bring to the stress or in this case the pain is just going to dictate how much you're going to suffer as a result of it.
I don't think you could say that sentence too many times, ever.
I feel like that's the kind of thing that I would need on a banner everywhere I go, just like buy me just to remind me of that.
Stress times resistance, equal, you know, it's just, that's beautiful.
Yes, it's magical. Yeah.
No, this, this, this is a podcast, so I can't really show you, but if you visualize in your mind's eye a triangle, right, okay, this kind of speaking to what you just talked about with your example of pregnancy and the contractions, if you could visualize a triangle and in the center of this triangle is a circle, okay, and at each apex the three apexes of this triangle you have your physical mm -hmm the other apex is your emotional mm -hmm and other apex is your thoughts okay so our behavior can start at any one of these apexes they could be triggered by sadness they could be triggered by a thought
that pops into your mind or in this case is triggered by physical pain mm -hmm so this physical pain can create all types of thoughts, negative thoughts, that we may have as a reaction.
Self -deprecating thoughts, which leads to increased levels of strong emotions, whether it's frustration, anger, sadness, feeling sorry for yourself, which circles right back around to increased levels of that or perceived increased levels of that physical discomfort.
So it's almost creating a cycle between the three apexes.
Exactly. Or the cycle might go in reverse.
But in the center of this triangle is a circle that allows us to perceive whatever is happening, whether it's a strong emotion, whether it's a strong stressor, a trigger, like in this case, physical pain, or whether it's a very strong reactive thought, and allows us to just go from a 10 and bring it on down.
So what do you think is in the center of this circle?
And you kind of touched on it when you mentioned your contractions.
I want to say, is it going to be like giving over to it?
By doing what? What did that nurse tell you to do?
I feel like this is a test. Breathing into it.
Yes, breath. I did it.
I did it. I'm so proud of myself.
This is something that I teach in my class.
And when you gave that example, it just made me think of the triangle.
And then the center is our breath.
With practice, with our meditation practice, we become aware of when these things come about.
And then we're able to respond.
Taking that breath.
and if that breath is not working, guess what?
You can take another breath.
You can take another breath, people, right?
So that's definitely something that I would recommend for Jack.
KSANGA, that was such a compelling conversation.
And especially all that stuff about pain and awareness.
I mean, it can be so disruptive in our lives in so many ways.
is like you said, it was so relatable.
And something that I think would help anyone dealing with any type of pain is remembering that aspect of self -compassion and self -love.
So in the app, we have a loving kindness meditation that I think would be so spot on and so appropriate for anyone that's dealing with any type of pain because that self love and self -compassion, that loving kindness is so important.
Well, now I would like to take a moment.
I want to thank Candice, Clemens and Jack for trusting us with their questions.
And I'm just making this shout out to anyone who is listening right now.
If you have a question that you would like us to answer under your headspace, it's so easy.
All you have to do is go to say hi dot chat slash dear headspace.
And that's in the show notes.
You follow the prompts, record your question.
And if we use your question on the show, you're going to get three months of headspace for free.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Robbin, that's a great deal.
And now as part of our practice together, we wanna provide you with a little meditation moment just before you move on to your very next thing.
And as you listen to the sounds of a very cozy fire in a home, just take a moment to process what you heard today and transition from this moment into the next.
And I invite you to just let your mind do whatever it wants to do.
So till next time, stay happy, stay healthy, and remember to be kind to each other.
Dear Headspace is a Headspace Studios original podcast. It's produced by Robin Hopkins, Ash Jones and Scott Sorensen.
It's executive produced by Morgan Selzer, Sarah Cohen, Baron Farmar and Danny Chrisamey.
It's hosted and produced by Robin Hopkins, Keisanga Giscombbe, Dora Kamau, Samantha Snowden, and Eve Lewis Prieto.
Sound Recording and Post Production is by Dan Kroll, music is by Scott Sorensen and Chris Murgia and a very special thanks to Colleen Lutz.
