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Hi, everybody.
It is time for another wonderful episode of Dear Headspace.
I'm Robin.
And today I'm joined by Dora or, as I like to refer to her, as the woman whose voice alone calms me down.
Now.
Today, the two of us are going to be talking about how to share your anxiety with new friends, balancing your mental health with that of your partner.
And we also have a question about how to make decisions when you are a people pleaser.
Well, I am pleased to kick the show off right now.
Have you ever wished you had a wise meditation teacher on speed dial, someone you can call after a long day, someone you could lean on for their advice, someone to listen and help you to see things differently?
Welcome to dear headspace, a podcast where i sit with a meditation teacher and we answer your questions Hi, Dora.
I'm going to say something.
I just saw your face and I already feel calmer.
I'm so glad you're here today.
No.
Hi.
I'm excited to be here.
Well, in a turn of events, right before I hit record, I took a look at the script and I realized that I inadvertently put together a show that's filled with all questions from women.
We love to see it.
So I don't know.
I'm thinking maybe we just shouldn't keep the ladies and the gents who are listening waiting.
I mean, should we just go right to our first question?
Let's get into it, Robyn.
Okay, here's Sophie.
Hi, I'm Sophie.
I'm from Florida.
And basically my question is about how to open up to people, because I've had an anxiety disorder since I was seven.
And I haven't had any actually real friends until now I'm in high school.
And, as I've gotten to know them, I'm having a really hard time telling them and opening up to them about my struggles, because I don't want them to think that I'm this super depressed and person and I don't want them to worry about me.
But at the same time, I really want them to know the struggles and the challenges I face.
So how do I open up and tell them about that without them being worried or seeing me in a different way?
Oh, thank you for your question, Sophie.
I'm so thankful that people feel like safe to bring these kinds of questions to us.
And you could just hear, like for Sophie, like What an isolating position that she must be in feeling, like she kind of can't share her whole self with her friends.
And, you know, it's just I'm so glad that she reached out.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for sharing, Sophie.
And I'm like, you can just play them this episode.
Just play them the episode when you feel ready and share with them and listen to this advice.
But yeah.
I just want to also say that I see you maybe in that fear of not knowing what will happen when you share your true self with your friends.
I want to name that as humans, we are biologically wired for connection.
So that fear of what, if or how will this turn out, or I don't want them to leave me, is such a normal and natural fear that we all face, whether it is sharing about an anxiety disorder or speaking up for yourself at your job or talking to a loved one about something like that.
Wanting to connect and to feel seen and to feel heard and appreciated is so much of a human thing.
And the fear is normal.
I felt this.
I will continue to feel it.
And I think by having that awareness of that, that's one place to start is just being mindful of.
You want to connect with these people and you want to maintain the relationships and the care that you are wanting to communicate with when you share yourself is Yeah, it's a really beautiful thing.
So thank you so much for sharing with us.
And again, you can always share the episode.
Isn't that just such a great way to do it?
You've got this whole little like leave behind.
Just take a listen to this and then let's talk after.
But, you know, it's like it's like I was thinking back to my 20s.
And like, given the way my childhood was and when I went away to college, I saw all these people who had different lives than what mine look like.
And I made all these assumptions.
You know about these people and like maybe their lives are perfect.
And I also know that I had a whole lot of like what will they think of me?
Conversations going on, which I heard Sophie mentioned as well.
And I don't know, I sometimes think the only way through that is through it.
You know, it's like kind of jumping off that bridge and just being like, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to say this.
And I'm going to trust that these wonderful people that I've surrounded myself will still love me, because I love them, you know.
Yeah.
And I also think you can't control how people respond when you share something.
Their understanding of what you shared is out of your control, right?
But luckily Sophie mentioned she's in high school and there's so much information about mental health that I feel like it will be received in a way where it could also be an opportunity to educate them on what it is that you're going through, because mental health and mental illness looks so different for people.
But again realizing that how they receive what you've shared with them isn't your responsibility, but it's also a good barometer and measure of are these actually my friends?
You know, what is their response?
And maybe in the moment you realize aren't like I knew it was going to happen like this, but you just treat it like a meditation, right?
So that person, that conversation, becomes your meditation, where you're showing up in a nonjudgmental way, full of compassion, and just noticing how you're feeling and also what's going on for that person, and just noticing and being there and holding space.
Because this is a big conversation, you know, and it can go either way.
But The way that we communicate with people doesn't only show up in the words that we speak, but also in body language and how we're positioned.
You know all the nonverbal stuff that's happening as well.
So treat it like a meditation.
Be curious, be kind compassionate, but also know that you really have no control over how these people are going to receive what you have shared with them.
And you can hope for the best.
But again, the reality is that it may land in a way which you weren't expecting.
It's so funny that you say that, because the mom in me was like if these people don't support you honey, then they are not your friends to begin with.
And I remember my mom would say things like that to me.
And I was just like, you don't know what it's like.
You don't understand.
And now as a mom, I find myself saying these things and watching my kids go.
You don't know what it's like.
You don't understand.
Because it is really true.
But I don't know that that always makes a person feel better in the moment when you want someone to rise up and be and I don't want to say at a level, but be the person that you long for them to be in your relationship.
Yeah.
I mean, another thing is checking expectations when you go into a conversation.
In MBSR, we have this mindful communications calendar that we do.
And one of the questions that we ask when you are faced with a difficult conversation in your week is what were you hoping to get out of the conversation?
Because that hoping for can really be a cause of suffering in your life, right?
If you're hoping for it to go one way and I do this all the time where I'm at home I'm like rehearsing how it's going to play out, what's going to happen.
You know what I'm going to say in rebuttal, and then it gets there.
And then she'll say, and then...
And then none of it happens, or maybe it's worse than or better than that I had imagined in my mind.
And that moment of me doing the rehearsal is also a lot of stress and anxiety that we place on ourselves.
So again, it's like treating it as a meditation, being as nonjudgmental, as open, as kind, as present as you can be in that moment and just allowing the conversation to unfold without expectation because again, you may be having one conversation and the other person may be having a whole other conversation.
So that's so interesting.
I especially love the part about the expectations.
Sometimes, if I have a really hard thing that I don't want to say, I either send an email or like a text and just say hey, there's the thing I wanted to talk to you about.
And just the putting that out there forces me to have the conversation when I don't.
It's like a way of tricking myself into doing something I'm not so comfortable with sometimes.
Yeah.
Setting a time, setting a place, being intentional around the like environment or even the capacity of the other person.
So if your friend is having a really hard day and then maybe they explode on you, and then you explode on them and then you tell them that hey, I have this thing that I've been wanting to tell you probably not the best time and place to do it.
So yeah, asking that person if they have capacity for having a conversation with you that you'd really like to have, setting up the time place, the scenario and then the aftercare.
I think I mentioned this in another episode where I talked about, like the aftercare that I'll do for my body and my nervous system when I do have big conversations, because it can leave me like up here and I want to come back down into my body.
So I'll either have another friend ready to call or, you know, schedule an appointment with my therapist or go outside for a walk.
But having like a toolkit of for afterwards I find has been really helpful, because sometimes you feel naked when you share and you're like vulnerable.
And I want to be closed afterwards.
And I've been finding things to help me feel like I'm, you know, I don't know, I'm closed.
So yeah, finding those things that can help you deal with the vulnerability hangover, as some people call it, because it is a big vulnerable thing to do, to share yourself.
And Sophie.
The one thing I want to say from my personal experience not with anxiety, but like coming out, as you know, as someone who is gay was the beginning, conversations were very hard.
Like I talk with my friends about how the beginning ones were like three hour escapades with tears.
And then and then over time, it just became like, you know, I'm a lesbian.
I like softball past the potatoes.
Like you know, in that beginning there's like getting comfortable with that level of honesty and honesty and whatever shame that I had.
And I imagine that it could be similar, Sophie.
So it does get better if that's helpful as well.
Ooh, you got this.
All right, let's take our next question from Kim.
Here we go.
Hi, dear Headspace.
My name is Kim and I'm calling in from Pennsylvania.
I have a question about how to go about balancing my own mental health needs with those of my partner.
I have been managing my anxiety and working on managing burnout for quite some time now, and my husband struggles with depression.
At times, we do really well with supporting each other through this, but there are also moments when he needs more support from me than I'm able to give without sacrificing my own mental health.
What is the best way that we can continue to support each other whenever these overlaps occur?
Thank you so much.
Oh, thanks, Kim, for this question.
I mean, this is true just not of romantic partnerships, but of family and of friendships.
It's like you know, sometimes there's not room for everyone to get the soothing.
And I hate to say it like that, but sometimes it's like one person's needs are more you know, need to be triaged more than the other.
But it's it's a really delicate balance.
Yeah, I just I'm going to share the first thing that came to my mind.
Well, that's why I'm single.
But the second thing?
The second thing when I was thinking about my past relationship was something that my therapist had shared with both of us in couples therapy of seeking connection and not correction.
And I think that was really helpful for me, because when I was learning how to express my needs or communicate one, it took a really long time because it was something that I didn't even like think about, that was essential for a relationship.
But two, my mind was so wired to keep on correcting my partner of like no remember, I told you it was this way and you should have done it this way.
And I was like this is actually making us feel more disconnected when we have this intention of wanting to come together.
So, looking at the ways that we communicate or express ourselves, knowing that you're wanting to like, strengthen the connection and not see it as something that's going to disconnect you, which I think sometimes people assume things like boundaries or Sharing your needs or non-negotiables is meant to separate, but it's meant to bring you together.
That's so true.
And like you're hitting on the very first thing that I was thinking of, which is communication.
We had a couples therapist once say to us my wife and I kind of like that people will often give support in the way that they want the support.
Yeah.
But that doesn't mean that's how your partner wants it.
And there's also, you know, there's something in this question.
And I'm curious what you think about this, Dora, is like there's something in here like Kim.
It sounded like she's almost just talking about like when we're in crisis.
Yeah.
But what's underneath that, you know, for Kim about a way of being and supporting one another?
Like, how are you taking care of yourself?
How are you, you know, like what's your mindfulness practice and all of that stuff?
Because let's let's just say Kim's in a really good space and her partner is not just being being together in an apartment or a home in that other person's stuff yeah can be difficult as well yeah yeah especially it sounded like kim's also a caregiver in a sense so that empathy fatigue is such a big thing to look out for i actually learned that empathy fatigue and compassion fatigue are two very different things most people say com you can be fatigued from compassion but compassion is this like thing that we have always have access to but it's empathy when you're feeling that other person's stuff when you're always like enmeshed with them that's where we get fatigued right so noticing how you can maybe start to disconnect and not see yourself as your husband or as your partner but instead or your problems as communal yes and starting to separate because you two are two very different individuals and I also wanted to point out what you had just said, Robin, about being in crisis.
But what does your connection or your partnership look like when you're not in crisis?
And what are the things that are going well or going right that you can start to affirm and also focus on?
Because when you're in crisis, it's so easy to be so consumed by all the things that are going wrong in your relationship that you forget about all.
Oh, this is what made me fall in love with this person.
Or this is what made me, you know, decide to show up and choose to be here every single day.
And starting to look at those moments and creating more of those moments.
Because when you're thick in it it's hard to, like you know, see the light at the end of the tunnel for sure.
And there's sometimes like, let's say, like Kim's having a bad day, and then you come out of it and you're like oh, finally the sun is up.
And then you turn over and there's to your right and there's your partner who's now having a bad day.
And it's like, those are moments where it's like, get out of the house, go to the movies.
Like, I mean-
Yeah, I will say.
Expressing needs.
It takes time to refine as well.
I think as humans, our needs are always changing and maybe there is an exercise or...
Yeah, there is an exercise, actually.
There's a meditation practice called Just Like Me.
I'm sure the other teachers have shared this practice before.
But reminding yourself that, even though you think the needs are different, at the same time we all want the same things.
We all want, you know, love, respect, care, appreciation.
We want to be witnessed and seen.
And the ways that we go about getting those things may differ from one person to the other.
But I find that Compassion is so important in these moments and that meditation practice can be really helpful.
Just reminding yourself, just like me, my partner, desires love and kindness and respect.
And, just like me, this person is a human being that is complex and difficult and challenging at times.
And again with this intention of bringing you both together instead of seeing it as like if I express my needs, we're going to be more apart than we are together.
But it's actually like we're coming back home to ourselves.
That's lovely.
And good luck, Kim.
We're sending love and compassion for you both, you and your partner.
Yeah.
Thank you for this question.
I'm sure that there's so many people who probably wanted to ask the same thing.
Relationships are not easy.
But yeah, I really... Do you want to say that's why I'm single again?
Intentionally single because relationships are not easy.
One more time.
Relationships are not easy.
But yeah, thank you, Kim, for sharing and asking so courageously.
All right.
We will be right back.
All right.
It is time for our last question from Angela.
Here we go.
Hi, Robin and Headspace team.
I'm Angela.
I'm from Colombia and I'm currently living in Germany.
And my question today is about connecting to my emotions or what I feel.
It is something I have been working on my therapy, but it is still hard for me.
It's like my mind comes first to understand the situation and somehow block what I'm feeling.
I don't know if it also comes from being a people pleaser, but yeah, at the end I realize I make decisions based on what I think I know about it, rather than how I feel about it.
And I don't like it.
It is like I have the feeling that I'm not being true to myself and maybe to others as well.
So that's my question.
Thank you so much for listening.
And I really love this podcast.
So bye.
Oh, thanks, Angela.
I feel like she said it all right in the middle with the.
I don't like it feels like it should be very intuitive.
And yet it is something that my 53 year old behind is still struggling to understand what I'm feeling.
You're just not alone, first and foremost, Angela.
It's not always easy to understand what we're in the middle of.
Yeah.
And I mean, as a society, we are rewarded for being very analytical as well.
If you say, oh, I've feel or I felt like we should do this way.
People are like, well, we need the facts.
We need the logic.
Cut that out.
Cut the I think.
Cut the I felt and just say directly what you want to say.
Yeah.
Also, don't cry.
Yeah.
So it's you, but it's also just the world that we're living in, where we're rewarded for being very analytical and logical.
But I think and I know and I feel that Revolution happens when we're in our bodies, when we're able to be connected to what it is that we're feeling and then use that to make a logical decision.
And I think that feeling of you not being true to yourself is coming from the fact that maybe you're only connected to one side of you.
But as humans, we're whole.
We're people, right?
There's so many different sides of us.
And that intellectual side is just one aspect of ourselves.
And the feeling part is another very important aspect as well.
So when we can bring the two together, you'll feel more aligned or feel like you're more connected to your truth.
And one of the things that I've done is just to be in my body.
So instead of focusing on my breath and meditation, I'll just focus on my body sensations.
And maybe I'll replay different things throughout my day and just notice oh, That's how I was feeling when I was having that conversation.
Oh, that's interesting.
Yeah, that's how I was feeling when I said yes and I should have said no, and becoming very familiar with those feelings.
It's like a muscle that you have to build because we get so good at being logical.
But then when it comes to being more intuitive and in our bodies, it's a practice.
Well, you know, what's interesting is there was almost two parts to Angela's question, right?
She's talking about not having a complete grasp of what her feelings are and how they are.
But then she was also talking about maybe not being true to herself in her responses or worrying so much about what people think and trying to please people.
You know, so then you've got this soup of not 100% knowing what you're feeling.
Also worrying about what other people think and trying to people please.
What are your thoughts on that part of the question?
Yeah, it's interesting because now that you frame it in that way, it's like she knows what she's feeling.
She knows that she doesn't like how this feels.
But I think I don't like it.
Yeah.
So directly, you said it.
And so if you don't like it, then you also have this opportunity, when you become aware of not liking it, of being able to change it and being able to then refine how you would like to show up.
And As I shared in the other question, like as humans, we are always seeking connection, right?
So that people pleaser thing.
I'm like, in a sense, we're all people pleasers in a way, right?
Because we're all wired for connection.
We're wanting to maintain our friendships and relationships.
And I think it's important to know that, but also to know that we are only able to show up authentically in our relationships and in our friendships when we're honoring ourselves and our needs.
Because if we don't, that leads to burnout and empathy fatigue and all these other things that can make us then resent people and ourselves.
So I think It's important for you Angela, to just be aware of those moments where you are seeking to please other people.
Notice what that feels like in your body.
Maybe notice the different patterns, the different themes, the different beliefs that you may have right.
If I don't please this person, then I believe X, Y, and Z is going to happen.
And take that moment just to pause and get clear on your own values and your own intentions for wanting to connect with others.
Because oftentimes you don't We don't set intentions.
I started doing this recently.
When I leave my house which is not often, but when I do decide to leave my house, I try to set an intention of like why am I going out to this party or to this event?
What is my intention for being in this space?
Is it to connect with people, to have a good time, to meet new people?
And for me, that will be my North Star and my guiding light, right?
Maybe it's to feel safe in community, but setting that intention before you leave your house or before you're in conversation is Can really help you to to then let go of those people pleasing tendencies because you first centered yourself.
Those small moments count.
So, whether it's someone you know, maybe at work, and someone's like hey, do you have five minutes and you're just about to take your lunch break, in those moments, those really small everyday moments,
Learn to let go of those people pleasing behaviors or ways of being then, and not wait until it's like a really, really big moment where you're like OK, this is the thing.
This is what I've been waiting for.
It's like saying no, you know, taking your lunch break or turning your phone off or setting the boundary.
Or, you know, those little opportunities that we have in our everyday life to show up for ourselves make a really big difference.
And not just waiting until we're in crisis or when things get really bad.
But you know, working this muscle every single day.
So when we do have those big moments, it's like, okay, I've been doing this.
I've also been refining my practice.
I know how to communicate with compassion and not from a place of reactivity, because I've been doing the work and not just waiting until like, the grand finale happens.
I was just thinking, as you said, that of like.
I forget sometimes that yes and no are not the only answers.
There's sometimes propose another solution.
So, like using your lunch break thing, there's no reason that you can't say the person like hey, I was just about to start my lunch.
But do you think I could find you in about an hour and a half?
Yeah.
Like you can propose something else.
Yeah.
And the person might just be like, oh, no, that's OK.
I totally it wasn't even that big of a deal.
Like it's like, but allowing yourself to stand up for what you need and want at the same time, while checking in with another person.
And I know that can be a hard thing.
But I think proposing another solution is where you can meet in the middle sometimes often.
Yeah.
And what I'm learning is like, a lot of the times, people that are meeting you with a sense of urgency things are never that urgent.
Right.
No, it's urgent to them for whatever reason.
And I'm like, you just brought this urgent energy to me.
And I'm like, this could have been done tomorrow.
You know, so also just being aware of like we're all coming and going, with so many different things going on in our lives.
And the only responsibility that we have is just how we respond and how we decide to show up.
So yeah, there was a really good book I read while I was in nursing school called I believe it's called Trauma Stewardship, and it was for caregivers.
But it talks a lot about being able to take care of yourself while you're also playing the role of a caregiver in the world.
And I highly recommend because the book has a lot of great mindfulness exercises in there and like things that you can apply into your everyday life.
It's not just like, here's what to do, but it tells you like the how to's of what to do as well.
That's fabulous.
I'll put that in the show notes for Angela and for everyone.
Yeah.
And the interesting thing is, when you decide to retire from being a people pleaser, you have to learn who you are as an individual.
Because if you're just doing things or saying things or being someone for the sake of other people – and this is what I found when I was retiring and hanging up my jersey – was that I didn't know who I was.
I was like, what do I like?
Who am I?
Do I really?
This is what actually made me leave my nursing career of like, oh, this career was for my parents.
It actually wasn't for me.
And there was a lot of grieving in that of like I've just wasted so much of my life, but also of like oh, and there's so much power, and like freedom and liberation in that I can now decide who it is that I want to become and be going forward.
But there is this like relearning of self that has to happen and maybe remothering or refathering of self, of like oh, I'm learning who I am now that I'm no longer pleasing or accommodating or prioritizing other people.
That's wonderful.
Well, thank you, Angela, for your question.
And I just you know this whole talk today, Dora.
Just there was so much in here about balancing our own mental health with the ones that we love in our life.
And I just think this is such an important topic.
And I'm so glad that we talked about this today.
Yeah.
And again.
I'll say it again and again and again, because I'm I guess I'm a realist and like This human experience.
Sometimes it's not easy.
It can be challenging.
I can sit here and make things seem as easy as like one, two, three.
But yeah, it's going to be difficult to begin with.
But know that on the other side of that is so much freedom.
So for everyone that's listening, you may try this out.
And then when it happens, you're like, Dora, it wasn't as easy as you made it seem.
But keep on trying because it's a practice and it's the muscle that we're building.
Oh, that's wonderful.
And now i want to take a moment to say thank you to all the folks who brought their questions in today sophie, kim and angela.
We hope that.
You know, this helped just a little bit, and i think sometimes that's all you need is just a little bit of help just to get started.
And if you're listening and you could use a little bit of help, all you have to do is just head over to say hi dot chat, slash dear headspace and you can record your question there.
That link, alongside the book that dora mentioned, will be in the show notes And hey, if we use your question in the show, you're going to get three months of Headspace for free to start your practice.
We love Headspace over here.
OK.
But yes, as Robin said, please send us your questions.
We love to hear from you all.
This is probably my favorite thing to do.
So thank you, everyone that has sent questions in.
One last thing before we go.
As always, if you've been listening, you know that we have some time at the end for reflection and integration.
So today I'll leave you here with some sounds from A Redwood Canopy.
Sit back, relax, take a deep breath and enjoy.
Until next time, stay happy, stay healthy and be kind to each other.
Dear Headspace is a Headspace Studios original podcast.
It's produced by Robin Hopkins, Ash Jones, and Scott Sorenson.
It's executive produced by Morgan Selzer, Sarah Cohn, Barron Farmer, and Danny Karisamy.
Our production coordinator is Taylor Jennings-Brown.
It's hosted and produced by Robin Hopkins, Kaysonga Gaskombe, Dora Kamau, Samantha Snowden, Eve-Louise Prieto and Rosie Acosta.
Post-production is by Dan Kroll.
Music is by Scott Sorensen and Chris Mergia.
And a special thanks to Colleen Lutz.
