Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Yang.
I'm joined by Yu Shun and Steve Hathorley in the studio.
Coming up, we've all heard that saying, when life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
But what if those lemons came with an expensive price tag?
We're breaking down what's behind the price hike and the hot new drink trend you won't want to miss this summer.
And we love quick answers, don't we?
How was your sleep?
Good. How was that meeting?
Bad. But life rarely fits into neat boxes.
What if our instinct to judge too fast keeps us from learning, connecting, even growing?
What might change if we stopped rushing into these conclusions?
conclusions our podcast listeners can find us at roundtable china on apple podcast from the world of entertainment to what fuels your passion our heart -to -heart segment is all about you share your thoughts with us at roundtable podcast at qq .com or better yet record record a voice memo we'd love to hear your voice and share it with the world now let's switch gears when life If life gives you expensive lemons, do you still make lemonade or do you get creative and make lemon milk?
Lemons, the once humble citrus we tossed into tea or water without thinking, are now pricier than ever.
And while we're all pausing before that casual squeeze, beverage brands are moving in a new direction, mixing lemons with milk.
So first of all, let's look at the bigger picture.
How expensive are lemons right now?
So there are so many different types of lemons, right?
The yellow ones, the green ones, and the small ones, they're called lime.
Yeah, so the kind of lemon that has gone through a significant price hike is the yellow lemon. So as of July 2025, wholesale yellow lemon prices have hit about 14 yuan per kilogram.
That's about US $2 per kilogram.
And that's nearly double what they cost the same time last year.
You know, back then they were just slightly less than 8 yuan per kilogram.
And that's basically 80 % year -on -year increase, according to the Ministry of Agriculture's market data.
And the retail price are even more shocking.
In many cities, these kind of yellow lemons are now selling for 4 yuan for each that single lemon. Yeah, that's about 60 cents, I guess.
So some fruit stores are charging as high as nearly 30 yuan per 500 grams. That's about $3 .8 per pound.
Yeah, the same amount of money that would have gotten you three lemons.
now sounds like an elementary school math problem doesn't it yeah statement out money how many lemons you can get that's exactly right yeah um yeah those prices don't sound you know overly expensive do they but when you compare them to last year you know 80 percent price increase obviously that's gotten really expensive and i'm just happy that we don't live off lemons um yeah that's more like garnish not a staple is it i'm very grateful for that Why have lemon prices subtly skyrocketed this summer?
Yeah, it's all about climate problems, isn't it, in different regions, lemon regions around the world, from here in China to Turkey, also Italy.
These are key lemon -producing regions on the planet, and they were hit by some pretty extreme weather.
In Sichuan's Anyue County, which produces 70 % of China's lemons, I didn't know that that high percentage came from one particular area.
High temperatures reduced the harvest by up to 40 % last year, so that will cause prices to go up.
Also, lemons, you know, last year the stock is running out, and lemons are easy to store.
And lemons sold this summer were mostly harvested last fall.
So, yeah, I think that happens a lot with different fruits.
They can stay around for quite a while.
But in 2024, that's when Sichuan experienced those record -breaking high temperatures.
They also had a lack of rain in that region, and that disrupted the lemon production.
And in that particular area that I mentioned before, the production was around 40 % lower than 2023.
So when they have a crop problem in one year, we tend to feel it in the following year.
And also global export cuts increase demand for Chinese lemons when countries like Turkey halted exports after frost damage.
International buyers turned to China, and that sent demand and also prices soaring.
One example is Anhui Lemon exports reached 178 million yuan, that's about 25 million US dollars in 2024, up 39 % from the year before.
Yes, indeed. Indeed.
And when it's summertime, only watermelon can beat lemons, in my opinion.
I had some last night.
It's amazing. It's so good.
And also in China, it's, again, relatively cheaper than a lot of other countries.
Oh, I heard that. South Korea, one watermelon can cost you, was it, is it Chinese yuan?
150 yuan for one watermelon in South Korea.
Like $20, $25, something like that.
Something like that.
And in Japan as well.
And when I was living in the UK, I was shocked by the watermelon price.
But anyhow, when it comes to lemons, oh, it's so nice in summertime to have to throw in a couple of slices of lemon to your drinks.
And that's what you usually get from all these beverage brands in China.
how are they responding to while suddenly there is a price hike in cost?
Mi Xue is one of the biggest milk tea franchises here in China.
They secured supply early by partnering with some of these An Yue growers, lemon growers, and locking in 30 % of local lemon output.
and this buffer helps them absorb cost spikes better than smaller stores and what I saw is also some of the brands are using just green lemons instead because they have different types of characters characteristics I mean the yellow lemons are more kind of a unique the the juice of these yellow lemons and And for green lemons, they can have really, really good lemon aroma.
And in that way, actually, a lot of these milk tea or this cold iced tea brands, they're just using green lemons to give you a sense of we are using fresh lemons, but they don't actually offer you that yellow lemon, which is quite more expensive.
Yeah, strong aroma, but lower bitterness, maybe, and less acidity.
and that makes them quite ideal for some teas, different types of teas.
Yeah. Well, I'll ask you guys to do a little bit of crystal balling for lemon price.
I know, you know, it's perfectly okay if you don't get it right.
All right. No pressure here.
Do you see possibly the prices can come down a little bit?
Maybe, but not immediately.
Experts say the next harvest in October, might stabilize the price but uh spring crop damage from sudden cold spells and uh summer heat may keep supply tight and the climate instability makes the future prices hard to predict yeah yeah you never know what's going to happen not just not just for lemons too right it's leachies and different types of melons and orange crops they could face similar spikes if this type of extreme weather continues.
But all that said, despite the rising costs, now we're seeing this new lemon based drink that is quietly, loudly gaining momentum.
It's two words I've never seen next to each other.
Yeah, lemon milk. How do you feel about it without actually tasting it?
I don't think, Steve, you've gotten behind our backs and trying your first cup of lemon milk without letting us know well no i haven't and my brain immediately went to what it isn't meaning mixing just pure lemon juice with milk which would cause the milk to curdle like if you're making some type of cheese or perhaps substituting it for buttermilk when you're making pancakes or something like that but that's not exactly what this is um this became really really popular on social media in in the early summertime and it started out with these DIY videos using lemonade and milk tea and it turned
into this full -blown trend so posts on platforms like red note they got over 9 million views on this particular topic tea plus milk tea plus lemonade okay so it sounds a little a little bit more palatable.
I have to admit, maybe I'm more conservative when it comes to new beverage flavors.
Yeah, it seems like the many beverage brands that we've mentioned in China, they're jumping on that bandwagon.
Some of the brands, not only Misha, we mentioned mentioned also yeah yeah no yeah yeah no tea and another brand called anti jenny followed with their own versions maybe different types of melon or i mean lemon and in one week anti jenny's lemon milk became its second best selling milk tea topping and to be honest i never actually heard of this kind of you haven't tried it yet no yeah uh have you tried it yet no yeah but it's not okay so we haven't really gotten to how they do it yet right because yes if you mix lemon juice with milk it's going to curdle right but they found a way around that it'll
normally react like that but newer dairy products like high acid resist resistant creams they allow brands to blend citrus and milk without separating meaning that curdling bottling isn't going to happen.
And there's also been tech upgrades, um, around the country making this possible to brands.
Now they're using, um, this perfect temperature control and specific lemon peel juices with very low acid and then dairy products that they call, for example, crash proof milk.
And that ensures the stable reaction between the, the lemons and the milk itself you know what you know because uh tea uh iced tea or milk tea industry is an industry with really many high tech i have to say with and also with many you can ever imagine what kind of um additives they're getting into that cup of drink so i was I was also thinking it's possible that they just added some lemon flavoring but not real lemon juice because I heard that you know you can actually the smell is the way that you can sense what you are tasting actually when you are tasting maybe let's say Fanta, Coke, and Sprite
with your nose pinched you cannot you cannot tell.
Can't tell the difference.
No so maybe it's because of the aroma of lemon and there may be additives they are adding into it and you are thinking you are drinking a milk tea with lemonade but actually this is a smell of lemon yeah you're pointing to a part of the industry that the beverage brands would love if we're blind to because a lot of these and in the beverage industry is huge in China and summertime is hay time for their business and I would suggest read the little chart of ingredients and I know often the it's fine print that we just happily skip but it's always a lingering question how much of this cup's content
is actually natural and how much is additives and other scientific creations that go into a cup this is something that i think is a legitimate question and do you guys think that lemon milk is the next flavor sensation or a foodie fail and i ask this question because it's connected to whether this is a good business proposition well there's all There's already orange milk teas, right?
So this kind of seems like the natural next step, I suppose.
Light milk teas have been around, as far as I know, for a very long time here in China.
So maybe consumers are getting a little bit bored of them, as delicious as they are.
Maybe they're just looking for something new and exciting, and this kind of checks all the boxes there with lemon milk tea.
Yeah, that's also what I want to say.
Because milk tea maybe give you a kind of creamy taste and fruit tea can give you a sense of freshness.
And then when they're two combining, maybe it fits in.
Fresh and creamy. People's different demands.
Yeah. Well, lemons aren't just a fruit anymore.
They're climate indicators.
They're possibly climate case studies and now trendsetters in the tea world.
As prices climb due to global and local supply issues, the beverage industry isn't slowing down.
It's adapting and pretty fast. Coming up, when was the last time you labeled something simply as good or bad?
Maybe your lunch, your day, or even a person you just met.
What might we discover if we paused before judging and explored the messy, complex middle instead?
Stay tuned. Looking for passion?
How about fiery debate?
Want to hear about current events in China from different perspectives?
Then tune in to Roundtable, where East meets West and understanding is the goal.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Yang.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Yu Shun.
Have you ever noticed how fast we judge things?
A rainy day, a first date, a delayed train, we instinctively call them good or bad.
It's a habit so deeply wired into us, we rarely question it.
But what if this need to label is exactly limiting how we feel, what we see, and learn?
What if, in rushing to judge, we're missing the richness of experience and holding back our own growth?
Imagine what might unfold if we let go of these quick labels and allowed ourselves to stay open, curious, and present.
How do our initial judgments limit our experiences and understanding?
Yeah, this is a philosophical topic, isn't it?
But our brains scientifically are indeed wired for efficiency.
So we use the words good and bad all the time instantly, right?
right? You've probably used one of those words already today, if not multiple times, right?
It's a mental shortcut.
It's quick, of course, it's efficient, but it does prevent us from engaging with the full depth, if you will, and nuance of a situation, also of a person, or even just an idea.
For example, if you label a food, a new food is bad before you even try it.
Like lemon milk. Like lemon milk, right?
That's what we did.
Oh, lemon milk, that curdles.
Ooh, that sounds bad.
But when our brain does that, we're limiting our possibilities.
We're introducing an impossibility without exploring any of the options.
And this creates a really rigid worldview for us because when we tend to quickly label things, we build these mental walls that prevent us from exploring alternative perspectives in conversations with people, exploring different opinions and ideas about the world, different flavors about whether milk and lemons go together.
I mean, that's a very simple idea, but it does apply to what we're talking about.
Beyond these snap judgments of good or bad, what are some other common negative thinking patterns that can hold us back and how do they impact us?
Maybe just, you know, assuming the worst possible outcome, like receiving a critical email means that I'm going to get fired.
Yeah. That kind of thing.
That's called catastrophizing.
It means like catastrophe.
Every bad thing, your brain just goes to the worst possible scenario.
And also maybe you may focus only on flaws while ignoring the bigger picture, like fixating on one negative review out of 10 positive ones.
And that makes you feel bad all the time, even if you get actually like bigger parts of positive comments.
and also then they may create a vicious cycle and these patterns intensify maybe anxiety and drain mental energy and impair both health and also problem solving ability yeah it's called mental filtering i think that's where for example who young if you got 100 positive reviews about the show i always remember the the bad one yeah that's mental filtering right so that's something that's blocking you from, not you, anybody who does that type of thing, from having a richer experience.
So if these negative patterns are so detrimental, what is the true power of positive thinking?
And that's essentially what we're talking about today.
Yeah, but positive thinking and the power of positive thinking, psychologists will say, is a very real thing.
But it doesn't mean that you're not accepting negative things into your life.
It's not about denial.
It's not about ignoring problems or pretending that everything is perfect all the time.
That's what toxic positivity is.
This isn't that. This is about approaching some new challenges with the belief that there will be a positive outcome in the end.
That positive outcome is possible.
And instead of dwelling on the negative thing, you focus on finding a solution to the problem.
You focus on growing from the difficulty.
And instead of labeling a challenge as bad, it's not about seeing it as bad.
You see it as an opportunity to learn or grow or expand.
But until now, I still not quite get the idea of this kind of mentality.
It's more about you should not give a definition on good or bad or you should get into that kind of gray area of being just fine.
I'll give you a really simple example that the philosopher in the story was talking about.
When we wake up in the morning and we look out the window, we tend to say good or bad immediately.
Oh, the weather's good today or the weather's bad.
But let's talk about the bad if you react that way.
way if you look at the clouds and you say oh it's dark i can't see the sun the weather's bad well you're immediately your brain is wired for a negative reaction right so the suggestion here and again this is a very philosophical discussion but the idea is instead of looking at something as immediately bad look at it for what it is it's just a cloud it is what it is right um that's a a weather example let's use a conversation with a person right a co -worker you have a conversation with your co -worker and your conclusion at the end of that was well that was a bad that was a bad chat right so many
times yeah I don't I don't I just met them but I don't think I like them they're bad you've made a snap decision in your mind what are you doing you're limiting yourself you're building up walls in your mind and in your heart maybe that's maybe that's a good person who who happens to be having a bad day on that particular day and you caught them at exactly the wrong time, but you've made a snap decision instead of simply saying, okay, that conversation maybe wasn't the best one, but let's try again later.
Maybe that person is a good person who's having a bad day.
But to be honest, I have to say this kind of mindset is something I envy, i envy you know because for many times or a lot of um people like me we will have a kind of mindset of just being in that gray area i don't think the day is good or bad i think it's just fine um and i would say these kind of people who just identifying it as good or bad is they have a sharper and clearer mindset on what kind of decision they get and they will not they were not blaming themselves they were just playing the outside that's an interesting way to but the idea is don't blame anyone or anything it is what it is and also just
don't rush into judgment and judgment is such a powerful word and that really i feel confines us because it kind of erases the gray area when it could be tilting towards the brighter side or the darker and then just give us the opportunity to explore that i think is really important and we live in a world that live that loves shortcuts especially mental ones labeling things as good or bad feels quick and safe but it often rubs it often robs us of depth perspective and possibility when we slow down those snap judgments and stay curious just a little longer life becomes richer not always easier
but definitely more meaningful because maybe the real growth doesn't come from deciding what something is but from being open to what it could become and with that we're signing off thank you so much steve hatherly and you shouldn't for joining the discussion you can always find us on apple podcast at round table china i'm ha young we'll see you next time
