Discussion keeps the world turning.
This is Roundtable.
You're listening to Roundtable with myself, He Young.
I'm joined by Steve Hatherly and Fei -Fei in the studio.
Coming up, is it love, loyalty, or just the fear of wasting what you've already given?
The sunk cost fallacy has a funny way of making us chase yesterday's losses instead of tomorrow's freedom.
When you've already invested so much time, effort, or emotion, how do you know if it's time to cut your losses?
And curious about social shifts, tech twists, or the mysteries of life?
Let us talk about it.
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Got something on your mind?
whether it's the world of pop culture technology or something that touches your heart we are always ready to chat so please allow me to reiterate drop us a line at roundtablepodcast at qq .com we'd love to feature your voice on the show now let's switch gears walking away from a toxic relationship quitting a soul -crushing job letting go of a dream that no longer fits who you've these moments are heavy not just with emotion but with perhaps outside judgment and the weight of everything and everyone we're tied to from the investing in the job well stock market let's say to life itself how do we know
when it's time to cut our losses and move on so what started off as a term in the financial world, how does it apply in everyday life?
Yeah, so stop loss in the financial world means it's an order that you put in place beforehand to sell an investment if it hits a certain price.
If it goes up to a certain price, pardon me, or goes down to a certain price.
And that idea is if it goes down to a certain price, you're saying, I'm not going to lose anymore.
I'm going to get rid of this investment now.
I'm going to cut my losses.
So how does that apply to your own personal life?
Well, if you think of your kind of capital, if you will, that would be your energy, your time spent on relationships, Relationships, your time spent building your career, your own personal identity, your mental health, that is your capital.
So the idea of stop loss in your private life is that if things are going to a certain point, but they're headed in the wrong direction, they're headed south.
Let's use a personal romantic relationship, right?
If that relationship is going south, once it gets to a certain point, you cut your losses.
You say, nope, that's it.
I'm done. And you end that relationship just like you sell your stock because the price has been dropping.
But it's very difficult.
There is no like a sell button in your life that you can just press and then let go of that very bad relationship.
relationship this is a very excruciating phase i think to say bye to say goodbye to a relationship or even a job that you really hate yeah it also takes that emotional toll that you have to go through yes let's stick with the romantic uh example i can see so many uh examples even just among my friends and people i know they're like you know flashing right in front of my eyes right right now it I'm I'm sure a lot of women um feel this as you're approaching 30 and let's say if you've been with this guy for x amount of years and then it's like if he's not proposing or you don't see a future together
and then what do you do am I able to find a guy after this did beat um and and unfortunately sometimes because you're so nervous about the uncertainty about your age about the social alarm clock.
And then sometimes people just settle.
And then sometimes people divorce or not afterwards.
But it sounds like a, you know, tragic movie that could continue.
And some people go, okay, that was seven years of my lifetime.
I can't do this anymore.
I'm going to cut my loss now.
And do you find someone afterwards?
Or maybe not? And then it becomes another hopefully more upbeat movie material um but yeah this is like you guys said why is it so hard in real life to apply the idea yeah well because it doesn't account for human emotions right life stop loss you know if you're talking about your stock you know drops ten dollars and you say okay ten dollars was my bottom line that was it i drew a line ten dollar loss sell it i'm going to take that loss.
That's easy to do sometimes with your investments.
It's harder to do when you've been dating a person for four years.
It's harder to do when you've been working at a company for seven years and you don't see any opportunities for improvement.
So it doesn't account for the human emotion side of things.
It's a very kind of cold, calculated look at your own personal life.
And they say, you know, how, well then how are you supposed to know when to make this decision?
Right. And what they say is that you have to have a definition, a non -negotiable definition of your bottom line.
So before that bottom line comes, you know, you know, in your heart, you've established what your values are, you know, the freedom that you need to feel, You know, what gives you peace of mind and what doesn't give you peace of mind.
You know, what must be protected for you at all costs, non -negotiable bottom line.
And when you get there in that relationship, in that job, in that major, since we just talked about that, you make a decision, you cut your losses and you move on.
Yeah. I chatted with my girlfriend last night about this.
To answer that question, still sticking with the romantic example, excuse me.
She was like domestic violence.
I was like, girl, you can't just that that threshold is too low, you know, and then we're like, yeah, you know, emotional fulfillment, you know, want to feel safe and you want you guys to really complement each other and become better people together, etc. And then we're like, yeah, no wonder we're not finding anyone right now.
Anyway, enough about me.
so so the next question i guess then is well how do i know what my non -negotiables are right how do i establish those well what they say is to remember the times when you felt most alive or most fulfilled or most authentically yourself what values were you embodying at that time what conditions were present for you that's thinking in the positive mindset if you want to think in the more negative mindset and you're thinking about the times in your job when you felt the most empty the times in your relationship when you felt the most dissatisfied or the most frustrated are those times the times
when you were at your bottom well then maybe you could establish that as a non -negotiable for you if I get to the point where I'm feeling like this then I'm going to draw a line in the sand right there yeah and but and also I think before for hitting that sell button to cut that losses.
The first thing is also that you have to acknowledge that you failed, for example, at this relationship or you are facing this kind of defeat in your life.
See, I disagree with that though.
When we finish a relationship or if a job finishes or whatever, you use the word failure, right?
Right. But it's not just you.
Everybody uses the word failure.
But I don't agree with that.
You know, that wasn't your end game.
That wasn't your end path.
Right. And for me, if you look at a breakup or a change of career or a change of major or what have you, you are one step closer to getting to where you were supposed to be, where you are supposed to be.
so it's not a failure it's kind of a success if you look at it through those eyes because you're going to have a new definition of who you are as a person you're going to have a new bottom line right for yourself you'll know yourself a whole lot better i don't look at those things as failures at all it's just i think when it comes to especially relationships and even in jobs is is that in Chinese, we have this word called 执念.
I don't think it can be translated into obsession, but it's very similar to that, is that you hold on to that either relationship or emotion or that job, then it's not easy to let go because you are thinking of what ifs.
What ifs, he'll change.
What ifs, this job will turn into something else.
And then you decide to stay on a little bit longer to see if that what if happens yeah and what if he's already like 30 30 what's that that's super young is it not I mean 50 no if okay let's say if because it's just easier to use relationship talk as an example if come on I mean he's been like wandering at other people and he's like 35 or something like that i mean are you willing to wait around that long girl for him to oh come back to you maybe it's time to wander elsewhere for yourself too and not wait for him to oh one day mature are we talking about your last weekend well one has a friend
right no you I see what you're trying to say right is that and again it goes back to that question like how are you supposed to know when yeah because it's as much as I disagreed with the failure term the loss part I think is is real right it's and you said the what if part and people tend to hang on for too long because they expect some change to come they expect things will get better and then they don't get better and then he's 35 oh now i'm on the 35 train um but yeah it's that sense of loss of what could have been and you didn't you didn't get there yeah well actually the domestic violence
is a great example here or gambling issues etc like once is for all i mean it's time to leave uh but i know in reality things might get a little little bit more complicated and we should always give people you know the the room to to sort of explore and all that but you know in theory I'm just saying in theory okay and not every loss is meant to be cut sometimes we misuse this idea to avoid responsibility or worse to justify bad habits when does cutting your loss not apply or worse get misused I think when for me when the The effort isn't there, I think.
Right. If you decide too easily that this is hard. I'm not going to do this.
I don't know. I don't know.
I'm not really happy right now.
See ya. I'm going to ghost you or block you.
Then you're not putting in the effort.
So I think stop loss when it comes to emotions and relationships and decisions about career is, you know, we've been talking about relationships, but let's talk about career for a sec.
let's say you have a bad week at work, right?
And you think, oh, well, that's my bottom line.
Now I'm going to quit, right?
Well, no, hold on, right?
Just hold on, you know, don't make drastic decisions in your life.
So I think when you have a lack of effort, then that might be a bad decision to make.
And also if you've cut your losses several times, I have to go back to the relationship examples that if you cut your losses with different people pool several times you probably need to sit back a little bit to think whether my guy picker is broken or i've been maybe having issues not i with this person might be having issues with developing a long -term relationship yeah yeah what's that expression in english like if there are 10 people in the room and you think they're all jerks then you might actually be the jerk oh Oh, you're the biggest one.
Oh, no. This is not the exact expression, but it's something along those lines.
Another potential problem you asked where it could be misused.
Yeah. If you don't have that definition of a bottom line or it's just always changing or maybe the bottom line is a little bit too shallow.
Right. Then that might be an issue as well.
Yeah. And also this kind of thinking, it doesn't account for long term strategy because this cut loss mindset is all about minimizing immediate damage.
But life isn't always that simple.
Sometimes you need to write out discomfort, wait out a rough season or double down on long term goals.
Short -term dip doesn't always mean that you're on the right or the wrong path.
It's maybe just part of the process.
And you might even miss out on the breakthrough just beyond the challenge.
And even the financial term itself can be problematic in the sense that if you're an investor of the Chinese stock A market, and if you're always thinking about cutting loss, you will never earn a dime.
You will always be losing money.
Look at the last five years.
So sometimes it's about waiting until the next cycle when the economy is buoyant, it lifts all boats, and we all get to earn a little bit from the investment market.
So even the financial concept of, oh, my bottom line is this, and I always have to cut my loss, it doesn't always work yeah yeah that's why there's no really easy answer for this one i think right you know someone how do you differentiate between short -term discomfort from you know some sort of change and then some genuine long -term pain that does require you to cut your losses and there then you have to analyze regret and real regret comes from compromising your core values the things that are really really important to you in your life for your own long -term well -being so you have to be able
to identify oh this is okay maybe a minor inconvenience that might go on for a month or two or three or four or five or six months versus something that makes It makes you feel like, no, this is not who I am as a person.
I don't feel comfortable with this.
I don't accept this.
And I'm not going to accept this, making sacrifices for another company or another person just because it suits them when it doesn't suit me.
I see hyper self -awareness here and that's really great.
But also, I think I just like to highlight one more thing I've got against this kind of cut your loss mentality that because it just doesn't work like that in real life.
It overs emphasizes utility over meaning.
And there are so many things in life that's that can't be efficient or optimized per se, such as parenthood, deep friendships, creative passions.
situations they all involve frustration uncertainty and heart and I think it's just extremely difficult well especially the parenthood part wait until your kid is 18 maybe that's time to wash your hands legitimately off them but actually in China you still need most parents will still financially support them for four years of college and I mean you you can't not deal with them.
You have the responsibility of being a parent of looking after this human being and nurturing and raising them until a certain age.
So yeah, cutting loss is a very interesting thought.
And Fei -Fei, do you have some last minute tips or reflections on how to deal with with it?
When finally, let's say, yeah, I've done this cutting my loss, but I'm dealing with heartbreak and maybe senses of grief or whatnot.
And how do you sort of make sense of all of this and move on?
I think the first thing is to getting to know yourself.
I think it's sort of already mentioned this in the first topic.
That's Fei Fei's answer for everything.
yeah just um know your values know your goals especially in your job what is your goal as your goes to for example getting a promotion or getting a raise where you want to finish a project and then to see whether this frustration that you are experiencing at the moment will be part of your journey to your goal or it's just damaging your journey yeah and that sort of gives you a sort of a picture of whether you should cut your loss now or just sticking around a little bit longer.
Life isn't a spreadsheet and we're not here just to optimize returns.
Cutting your loss is a valuable tool, but it's not a universal truth.
It's not about walking away from every hard thing.
It's about knowing why you're walking away when guided by self -awareness, core values, and long -term vision, it can be liberating.
But used as a shield from discomfort or responsibility, it becomes just another way to run from ourselves, perhaps.
Coming up next, let's have a moment of Heart to Heart.
We answer. Roundtable.
Heart to Heart. We dipped into the mailbag and I want to respond to an email from avant -garde Richard. What a cool internet handle you've got there.
After listening to one of our earlier shows on China's cycling craze, Richard, you wrote in to say you've noticed how well developed the biking infrastructure is is in big cities in China.
But you really want to know what it's like in small and medium sized cities here in China.
And you're also hoping to plan a bike tour that sticks to dedicated bike paths rather than busy main roads.
Well, hello, Richard. It's wonderful to hear from a fellow cycling enthusiast. I'm so glad you enjoyed our show on the cycling craze.
And what do you guys have to recommend to Richard?
Well, I think actually when it comes to cycling paths, cities like Xiamen and Chengdu or along the eastern coast in Jiangsu province, for example, like in the city of Taichung, that they have bike lanes.
For example, in the city of Xiamen, they have a 7 kilo more than 7 kilometers long of sky bike lane which is built sort of in the mid in the air elevated bike lane I think it's the longest elevated bike lane in the world and also have very colorful overpass and fly over and sort of connects key transit points so that it can keep cyclists safe from traffic and also offering them a scenic views and that's something that I I think Richard can give it a go if he ever traveled to the city of Xiamen in Fujian Province.
And that's not a Tier 1 city, correct?
No, it's definitely not a Tier 1 city.
It's a much smaller city, but considering European sizes, it's pretty big.
And it's a beautiful tourist attraction of a city.
And also, Richard has a follow -up question.
Does China have anything like the Danube cycle path?
The Danube is 多寥河 in Chinese, such a beautiful Chinese translation.
And Richard goes on explaining the Danube cycling path as 1 ,800 miles long, or that's 2 ,897 kilometers long, a bike path.
So do we have anything similar to that in China?
Not exactly, because as far as I know, that path that you just talked about is exactly a bike path.
It's strictly a bike path, right?
there's something super long here in china but it's not strictly a bike path i'm talking about the grand canal bike route it is 1700 kilometers it goes from beijing to hangzhou and this route follows the world's longest canal that was built thousands of years ago what a beautiful opportunity this would be if your legs are up for it the terrain is flat they say which is really good but it's uneven in parts.
And also the amenities might vary.
For example, some rural stretches, they might lack repair shops or something like that.
But it's great if you can make that route.
They say that it's really good for intermediate or beginner riders because it is quite flat.
The elevation changes are quite minimal.
But like I said before, it's not 100 % bike path.
You will have to enter into some traffic at certain points.
Yes. So while China might not have a direct equivalent of the Danube cycle path just yet, the country is growing fast in that direction, especially in smaller cities that are investing heavily in greenways and cyclist friendly spaces.
A careful planned trip can take you through scenic riversides, countryside villages and modern elevated lanes, all without needing to dodge heavy traffic.
And that brings us to the end of today's show.
Thank you, Steve and Fei -Fei, for joining the discussion.
I'm He Young. We'll see you next time.
