Where did you get those shoes?
Easy. They're from DSW because DSW has the exact right shoes for whatever you're into right now.
You know, like the sneakers that make office hours feel like happy hour.
The boots that turn grocery isles into runways.
And all the styles that show off the many sides of you from daydreamer to multitasker and everything in between because you do it all in really great shoes.
Find a shoe for every you at your DSW store or dsw .com.
Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one checkout on the planet.
The shop pay feature even boosts conversions up to 50%.
So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling.
Upgrade your business and get the same checkout top brands like all birds use.
Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash podcast free.
All lower case. Go to Shopify .com slash podcast free to upgrade your selling today.
Hi everyone, it's Andrea Canning back with the latest episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly.
Episodes drop first thing every Thursday morning and you could also find them by searching for the Dateline True Crime Weekly feed.
So give us a listen and follow the show wherever you get your podcasts and tell your friends.
Hey, good morning everybody.
You're listening in to Dateline's morning meeting in 30 Rockefeller Center.
Alrighty, we'll go ahead and get started.
Our editorial team is catching up on breaking crime news around the country.
I just heard that one of the cops will talk to us.
I do believe the defense will rest today.
That perfect marriage and that perfect couple may not be so perfect.
Welcome to Dateline True Crime Weekly.
I'm Andrea Canning.
It's November 7th and here's what's on our docket.
In the spring of 2022, the state of Georgia accused one of the biggest names in rap music, Jeffrey Williams or Young Thug, of running a criminal enterprise.
But last week he left jail in a Mercedes.
If you had told me that this was scripted in a TV show, this was like too unbelievable.
In Dateline Roundup, Karen Reid is back in court.
New videos are played for the jury in the Delphi murders trial.
And we've got police body cam from the case of the Brazilian au pair accused of murder.
Plus, have you ever wondered how detectives know when someone is lying to them?
We've got tips from a former secret service agent about how to spot deceit.
We kinda know when things are off.
Trust it. But first, we're heading to a small town in Kentucky for an update on a case we talked about on the podcast over the summer.
The son of a local dentist has been behind bars, charged with a grisly murder he denies committing.
Now we're finally getting a look at some of the prosecution's evidence.
In June 2023, Amber Spradlin, a 38 -year -old restaurant hostess in Prestonsburg, Kentucky was found murdered in a prominent dentist's home.
For over a year, there were no arrests.
Then this July, the dentist, Michael McKinney II, his son and a family friend, were arrested and charged with multiple counts of tampering with evidence.
And the son, Michael McKinney III, was also charged with Amber's murder.
Here's our NBC affiliate station WLEX.
The allegation? He intentionally killed Spradlin by repeatedly stabbing her inside his father's home on June 18th, 2023.
All three men pleaded not guilty.
Two of the men were released from jail, but the dentist's son, known as MK, has been behind bars ever since.
Then, two weeks ago, there was a hearing about his unusually high bond.
MK McKinney once out of jail, and his lawyer argued why his $5 million bond should be lowered.
The prosecution also spoke at the hearing and revealed for the first time some of the evidence they believe proves MK is Amber's killer.
Dateline producer Rachel White was inside the courtroom and is here to tell us what she learned and what the judge decided.
Rachel, welcome back to the show.
Thank you, Andrea. Okay, so this is a complicated case.
Let's start with a quick recap of what happened.
What do police believe happened in that house?
How did Amber end up at the dentist's house?
So, Amber had just finished her shift at the Brickhouse restaurant.
She met up with a friend to grab a drink at another bar, met up with the dentist, his son, and this third man, Josh Mullins, and decided to go back to the dentist's house to continue the night and have a few more drinks.
Okay, where does everything go wrong?
I think this is where you're going to say, we don't really know, right?
Yeah, so there's a lot of unknowns, a lot of details that still have not come out.
For example, prosecutors haven't laid out a motive for this crime even.
You were at this hearing where the defense representing MK McKinney tried to get his $5 million bond lowered.
That's a lot of money.
What did the defense say?
I think one of the main points of the defense's argument was that MK could be waiting for a very long time for his trial.
They haven't tested a lot of evidence in this case, and some of it could be exculpatory evidence.
The prosecution has said that that was because of a backlog in the Kentucky labs.
So the defense is saying that MK is innocent until proven guilty, and that the evidence in this case could take at least a year, if not longer, to get them to the point where they could have a trial.
And that's a very long time for him to wait.
If he's sitting in jail that entire time, that's a miscarriage of justice.
Because it's not his responsibility to do this test.
His attorney also said that he has no prior criminal record.
The allegation that he's a danger to the community.
He's 25 years old and has a speeding ticket for five miles per hour over.
That's it. Then what is the prosecution saying?
The prosecution laid out a lot of evidence in the case because the defense's motion basically said that there was a lack of physical evidence.
And so they went and laid out a lot of it to prove that that wasn't true.
So we learned that Amber was stabbed at least 12 times in the head and neck and torso.
And this was a very, very violent attack.
The blade from the knife actually broke off in her neck and was found during the autopsy.
Wow. And they, even though, as we mentioned, that they're not saying exactly what they have, they are indicating that their evidence strongly implicates MK.
They are. So when MK McKinney was brought in for questioning shortly after the murder, scratches were seen and photographed on his forearms.
They're saying that under her fingernails, they found DNA.
And the DNA was a paternal match to the McKinney DNA.
But because of those marks on MK, that's why prosecutors are looking at him for the murder.
Dr. McKinney and Josh Mullins had no defensive wounds, according to the prosecution.
Yeah, it's interesting because you have father and son.
Correct. So you need that extra bit of evidence to kind of put the pieces together, if what the prosecution is saying is correct.
So there was also some video evidence that prosecutors mentioned?
Yeah. So the prosecution says that the dentist told several people that MK left the house overnight.
But security video taken from neighbor's homes shows that MK's truck was leaving at 8 .30 a .m.
Amber was last seen in the living room around 7 a .m.
So the timeline that the prosecution is laying out here is that the murder happens sometime after 7 a .m.
The prosecution also pointed to MK McKinney's mental condition.
That's right. So this filing by the prosecution says that he had, quote, a history of violent outbursts and mental instability.
It also says that he had, quote, heard voices telling him to kill himself and that he talked about some dark voices taking control and telling him to do bad things.
And they also pointed to a time in which MK allegedly pulled a knife on someone while drinking at a party.
One of the things that stood out to us was his own statements about his inability to control his name.
But he had instances where he was triggered and couldn't control himself, which is consistent with what we believe occurred here.
We should note that the defense says these allegations come from one source.
This whole pulling a knife, there's not a single other person who supports that story.
So it sounds like a lot happened at this hearing.
Was MK there? He was.
He was there. I did have a view of MK and he was pretty stoic, you know, he was interested in what was happening.
The courtroom was full.
There was a camera in there, lots of media attention.
Amber's family, I'm assuming, was there?
They were there, all of them.
There were friends and family who knew Amber and knew her well there supporting.
And there were also people there that never were able to meet her.
They were just there because her case resonated so much with them that they wanted to show their support.
OK, so what did the judge decide as far as a lowering MK's bond?
He said that the McKinneys had the ability to post his bond and, you know, that they didn't.
And he said the bond will stay at five million.
So many unanswered questions in this one.
Rachel, we'll be keeping an eye on it and we look forward to your updates going forward.
Thank you. Up next, the Atlanta trial of a well -known rapper produced viral moments and controversy.
And then all of a sudden it unraveled.
How did a man facing 45 years in prison walk away with time served?
Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one check out on the planet.
The shop pay feature even boosts conversions up to 50 percent.
So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling.
Upgrade your business and get the same check out top brands like all birds use.
Sign up for your one dollar per month trial period at Shopify .com slash podcast free.
All lowercase. Go to Shopify .com slash podcast free to upgrade your selling today.
M .S .N .B .C. films presents a new four part series from NBC News studios that exposes the injustices of wrongful convictions.
The Sing Sing Chronicles.
First two episodes premiere Saturday at nine p .m.
eastern on MSNBC. For our next story, we're heading to an Atlanta courtroom where last week we saw the dramatic conclusion to the longest running trial in Georgia history, at least for one of the defendants, rap superstar Young Thug.
In 2022, Fulton County prosecutor Fawny Willis accused the rapper, whose real name is Jeffrey Williams, of being a gang kingpin.
She charged him with racketeering, said the gang had been involved in murder.
And the key to her case?
The musician's own songs.
If you decide to admit your crimes over a beat, I'm going to use it.
For two and a half years, Young Thug sat behind bars as his trial, which involved more than two dozen co -defendants dragged on.
Then suddenly last week in a move that surprised everyone, he took a plea deal.
His fans on TikTok were delighted.
Oh my God, I never thought I'd see the day.
Young Thug is free.
Young Thug is free.
Here to talk about what that freedom might look like and how Young Thug ended up here is journalist David Dennis Jr., who covers pop culture for ESPN and also lives in Atlanta.
David, thanks for being here.
Thanks for having me.
Let's talk about what Young Thug was on trial for.
If you believe the RICO case, Young Thug is sort of the head of this snake that extends throughout a large swath of criminality in Atlanta, which the DA has tied to a rise in crime in the city and has sort of put that at the feet of Young Thug and YSL.
That's his record label.
Yeah, it's the idea that he is the head of this crime syndicate, this record label YSL that has done a lot of crime and violence in the city.
So the criminal acts, the prosecution said Young Thug committed, included he received stolen property, a gun, made a gang sign with his hand and photos posted on social media, rented a car that was allegedly used to commit a murder.
And we're talking about 27 co -defendants in this case, which is just unbelievable.
Yeah, I mean, this is a huge case.
This is a huge sprawling case and there are still a few people who are still on trial.
The lyrics in his songs, Fonnie Willis was pointing to Gil based on those lyrics.
Yeah, I mean, rap on trial is a huge issue that has gone back many years.
That is a dangerous slippery slope in hip -hop.
There's a lot of people who make lyrics.
If you based crimes on lyrics, almost every rapper, not even just rapper, a lot of musicians themselves would go to jail to base criminality on fictional characters is extremely dangerous.
This trial really has been dogged with controversy.
Yeah. I mean, it's been a mess.
There's no other way to put it.
There's been multiple judges.
There's been lawyers who've been tossed.
There have been viral testimonies from the guy who said he was high on the stand first and said he didn't know when he was born and things like that.
I mean, this has been as messy a court case as you can imagine.
If it wasn't such a serious case, this would be something like out of an episode of the TV show Atlanta.
This was really around the city of Atlanta, the big water cooler talk, the barbershop.
I mean, my barbershop had the trial on 24 -7 when I was in there.
Do we know what exactly happened that resulted finally, as we said, longest trial in state history and now we have this plea deal?
Part of this comes out of this sort of calamitous thing that happened a couple of weeks ago, which they had a witness sort of read out an Instagram caption and it had the hashtag Kwe.
So two of Williams's co -defendants go by the name Kwe and the jury wasn't supposed to know that they or any of the defendants have been locked up in the months before and during the trial.
That mistake possibly tainted the jury?
Yeah, so the defense was trying to make an argument that this was a prejudicial factor in this, that the jury found out that somebody was in jail when they're trying to keep the jury sort of out of that information.
And that really led to a moment where both sides sort of saw that the plea deal may be the quickest way and maybe the best way to get out of this.
What exactly did Jeffrey Williams plead guilty to?
So what he's pled guilty to was participation in a gang.
He pled guilty to three drug charges, two gun charges.
He also pleaded no contest to the charges of being the leader in the gang and conspiring to violate the RICO.
And so to break it down, he's not admitting that the state is correct about his record label being a gang with him at the top, but he's also not going to fight them in court any longer.
Yeah, basically, it's kind of an impasse.
So Young Thug put his fate in the judge's hands.
Did he make a statement at all?
Yeah, so he made about a 10 minute speech.
He did apologize. He thanked the judge being fair.
Said he learned a lot in these last two and a half years that he's been locked up.
I know the impact I got on people period in the community.
I learned that late, maybe it was because I was, you know, probably on drugs.
I don't know, but I have came to my senses.
He cracked a couple of jokes.
He talked about the bailers and everybody getting overtime.
And he said he would hope he never see the judge again.
I hope that you allow me to go home today and just trust in me to just do the right thing and never see you again unless it's at a bar in the future or something.
And I promise you, I'm going to be in this type of situation again.
So the judge decided his sentence.
What did she do? She gave him time served, which has been two and a half years and then 15 years of probation on top of that.
And if he violates that probation, there's a 20 year sentence that's sort of hanging over his head.
So he gets to walk free, but it's going to be a really challenging next 15 years for him.
He has a lot of restrictions on him about what he can and cannot do.
I mean, like he can't be in Atlanta where he's from, unless there's funerals, things like that.
He cannot quote, unquote, promote gang activity in his music or hang around any gang members, except for like his brother and gun, who's a collaborator.
And he's subjected to search and seizure at any point over the next 15 years, which to me, that feels like a hell in itself.
It's not jail, but it does feel, it feels dangerous.
I mean, what are things that you say that promotes gang activity in your music, right?
And it's sort of up to somebody's discretion.
Is there any public outcry that he got off too easy?
A lot of the public outcry is about the trial itself.
The fact that this trial has taken so long and it's taken a lot of resources.
There's really nothing to show for it.
There's no belief that the streets of Atlanta are any safer.
David Dennis Jr., thank you for your insight into this case.
We appreciate it. Thank you.
Next, we've got Dateline Roundup.
The Massachusetts Supreme Court takes up the Karen Reed case.
And in a DC suburb, a last minute guilty plea raises the question, has the Brazilian au pair turned on her lover?
Plus, can you tell if someone is deceiving you?
Former secret service agent Evi Pomporos is back to share some tips on how to read people.
Nobody does selling better than Shopify, home of the number one check out on the planet.
The shop pay feature even boosts conversions up to 50%.
So if you're into growing your business, your commerce platform better be ready to sell wherever your customers are scrolling or strolling.
Upgrade your business and get the same checkout top brands like all birds use.
Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify .com slash podcast free, all lower case.
Go to shopify .com slash podcast free to upgrade your selling today.
MSNBC films presents a new four part series from NBC news studios that exposes the injustices of wrongful convictions.
The Sing Sing Chronicles first two episodes premier Saturday at nine PM Eastern on MSNBC.
Welcome back. Joining me for this week's Dateline Roundup is Dateline producer, Sue Simpson.
Hey, Sue. Hey. So we are off to Massachusetts with some news in the Karen Reed case, who listeners will of course remember as the woman accused of killing her Boston police officer boyfriend, John O 'Keefe in 2022 by drunkenly backing her car into him.
Reed went on trial this spring, but the jury was hung and a mistrial was declared on July 1st.
Both teams are gearing up for a second trial.
So tell us, what is new, Sue?
Well, this week, actually on Wednesday, Karen Reed's attorney and the prosecutors appeared before Massachusetts highest court for a hearing.
Hear me, hear me. SJC 13663 Commonwealth versus Karen Reed.
And this becomes after the mistrial was declared, the defense team said they heard from multiple jurors who told them that the jury unanimously agreed that Karen Reed was not guilty on two of the counts against her.
The defense team argued that she shouldn't be acquitted on these two charges.
They should be dismissed.
Fay's appeal goes to the core issues regarding double jeopardy protections that safeguard defendants.
In this case, Ms. Reed.
Prosecutors got up and said, no, no, wait a minute, issues.
Spoken up in open court when the mistrial was declared.
And those were the arguments made on Wednesday.
The Supreme judicial court in Massachusetts has 120 days to make a decision after hearing these oral arguments.
So the prosecution is trying to keep things as they are when we go to trial a second time in January.
That's exactly right.
What I would say, though, is it's not necessarily clear they're going to go have that retrial in January because both sides actually found a joint motion on Monday, say to the judge, could we please have an extension?
They're asking both the defense and the prosecution for the trial not to start until April 1st.
Okay, thank you for that update, Sue.
For our next story, we are off to Northern Virginia.
We have been following closely the case of the Brazilian au pair who was charged with murder.
The victims in the case were the mom, the Brazilian au pair was working for, and another man, a total stranger.
Most of them were found dead in the family home.
In the down of the family, Brendan Banfield has been charged with healing the mom, his wife, Christine, and that other man named Joseph Ryan.
And the prosecutor said that Banfield plotted to kill his wife, and the au pair was in on it.
Last week, the big news was that the au pair, Juliana Perez -Maugaliez, pleaded guilty to manslaughter, and now we have some new information.
Our day -drone team brought their hands on bodycam footage from the officers who first responded to the scene.
The au pair, you may remember, was the one to call 911 on the bodycam.
You can see her gas being.
She seems distraught.
She's talking to officers.
Take a minute, okay?
You just want to tell me quickly what happened?
I don't know what happened.
Everything happened so fast.
She tells them that she saw Joseph Ryan stabbing Christine, and that Brendan shot him to defend his wife.
He started stabbing her.
I think Brendan shot him and he asked me to help, he shot him too.
Prosecutors say that story is not true.
They say that the au pair was covering for Brendan, who they say lured Joseph Ryan, that stranger, to the home through a fetish website, and they say tried to frame the stranger for his wife's murder.
That's right. And we haven't heard, of course, Brendan's side of things yet, but the au pair says she's going to testify against him as part of a plea agreement that she made last week.
Okay. Finally, we're headed to Delphi, Indiana for the trial of Richard Allen.
He is the man accused of fatally stabbing two middle school girls in 2017.
Yeah, it's been another intense week at that trial.
The jury got to see over a dozen videos of Allen in prison from the time when he gave more than 60 confessions.
And when the defense says that he was in great mental distress, and we know they included footage of Allen being tased, eating feces, and being transported for medical treatment.
The defense was pushing their point that the confessions were a product of some kind of psychotic break.
They weren't real. Any other big witnesses?
There was also a tool mark expert who took a stand and raised concerns about the analysis of the state's examiner who had said that the bullet found at the crime scene had cycled true Allen's gun.
And that's a big one, because the bullet is really the only physical evidence that the prosecution has to tie Allen to the scene.
Yeah, really big point in this case.
The defense rested Wednesday morning, so we'll keep you updated as this trial comes to a close.
Sue, thank you for coming back on Roundup.
Thanks, Andrea. It's always great to do it.
There's something that nearly all Dateline episodes have in common.
Someone is lying. It could be a murderer lying to police about an alibi, or a husband lying to his wife about an affair.
Sometimes it could be a detective lying to a suspect to get information.
So for our final story this week, we wanted to find out, how can you tell if someone is lying to you?
If someone is deceiving you?
We asked former Secret Service agent Evie Pomporus, who conducted her fair share of polygraph exams for some tips.
Hey, Evie, thanks for coming back.
Thanks for having me.
People lie, sometimes they're harmless, sometimes they're white lies, sometimes they're big lies that can really impact your life in a negative way.
How can you read people in a way to know if they're lying to you or not?
First, there are three primary ways people lie.
One way is they'll tell you a full -on lie.
The second way they tell you a lie is they will tell you a lie, sprinkle in a little truth, then a little lie, then a little truth.
The third way people lie, the most common way people lie, is they lie by omission.
I'll tell you this part here, but I'm going to leave this part out.
So how can you catch this behavior with people?
The first thing I'm going to say is we have to know people's baselines, who are they normally when they're not threatened, when they're in a relaxed mode.
Now, when you start asking people uncomfortable questions or questions where you start thinking, I want to know, you know, what did my significant other do last night?
Am I looking at my significant other's baseline?
Sure, because I'm going to see deviations.
We all kind of the people that are close to our orbit.
We kind of know when things are off, trust it.
Just pay attention and then start asking follow -up questions.
What type of follow -up questions would you ask?
Tell me more about that.
Be curious. And so if you see them struggling to answer your question or they consistently don't want to answer it, now you know there's a problem with this question.
When you interview people and teenagers are king and queen when they do this, they make you feel stupid.
That's a dumb question.
I already told you, I can't believe you're asking me this.
Those are red flags.
Now, look, does it mean that person's lying?
No, but you should ask yourself why.
Why is your response so strong to something simple that I ask?
Often people do this to get you to back down.
Another super common thing is answering a question with the question.
Who me? Stalling tactic.
So that's verbal. What about body language?
The problem with body language is the narrative is, oh, they looked up and to the right.
They're making up the lie.
It is absolutely not true.
Think of it this way.
We are so uniquely different.
How can you actually put somebody in the box as what they're going to physically do in a lying scenario?
Now, can some people give you cues?
Yes. So if you ask me a question and the whole time we're talking, my hands are down.
I'm not putting them up to my face.
And then all of a sudden, my hand goes up to my mouth before I answer.
You should in that moment say, that is super weird.
Does that mean I'm lying?
No, it could mean though that's an uncomfortable question for me.
Eye contact, too. For some people, not all.
I've interviewed so many people.
And I've had many people look me in the eye all day long and lie, lie, lie.
That's the big one that you hear about, is that someone will look down or they won't look you in the eye if they're lying.
Some can. Again, just because somebody does it, it doesn't mean everybody's a liar.
Pay attention. And I also think people should just trust their instincts.
If it feels off to you, it probably is.
Just listen to it. Yes.
All right. What I love about these tips is that you can use it in your everyday life.
So thank you, Evi. Absolutely.
That's it for this episode of Dateline True Crime Weekly.
Next week, the conclusion of a trial that's riveted Minnesota.
Did the man who admitted to law enforcement that he was infatuated with the Gabby Petito case murder the mother of his children?
To find out more about the cases covered on the show, head to our website, DatelineTrueCrimeWeekly .com.
And coming up this Friday on Dateline, almost 30 years after Eric and Lyle Menendez were sentenced to life in prison for murdering their parents amidst a surge of public attention and a DA's recommendation, could they be released?
We're viewing everything that happened back then through a different lens.
A different lens, yes.
But is it making our vision any clearer?
Watch Keith's new two -hour mystery, The Menendez Brothers' Chance at Freedom, airing this Friday at 9 -8 central on NBC or stream it starting Saturday on Peacock.
To get ad -free listening for all our podcasts, subscribe to Dateline Premium, where you can also find exclusive bonus content, including our latest episode of After the Verdict, which drops today.
I'll be talking with Lissa Yellowbird, who tracked down one of the men involved in the disappearance of her niece, and now crosses the country with her search dogs looking for other missing people.
Thanks for listening.
Dateline True Crime Weekly is produced by Franny Kelly and Katie Ferguson.
Our associate producers are Carson Cummins and Caroline Casey.
Our senior producer is Liz Brown -Kirloff, production and fact -checking help by Sara Kadeer.
Veronica Maseka is our digital producer.
Rick Kwan is our sound designer.
Original music by Jesse McGinty.
Bryson Barnes is head of audio production.
Paul Ryan is executive producer and Liz Cole is senior executive producer of Dateline.
