How are you, man?
I'm good.
So I met you, do you remember where we met?
In Malibu.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
We were having burritos with our mutual friend David, and you happened to be sitting next to a director Todd, who you'd worked with, and we had this funny back and forth here and there for a minute.
Yeah, we saw Todd Phillips at lunch.
He was eating lunch by himself.
And we did a bit about, do you want to continue eating lunch by yourself?
Or do you want to join our table?
And I never met you, but I'm a huge fan of yours.
Thanks, Jonah.
I think you're.
You know.
All you want from the people that do something is there's like a best in class of what In everything in the world there's a best in class who does that, and you're best in class of what you do.
Thanks, Jonah.
That's very thoughtful and kind of you to say, man.
I appreciate it.
And I know, you know, you've been kind to me, to my face off the record too.
So I know you've been genuine and I appreciate it.
I mean it and um, i haven't done interviews in like many years and so i was uh excited you were on the top of my list.
So thanks for saying yes.
Of course i was like i wanted to zane lowe.
You know i'm a fan too.
You know that.
I've told that to you off the record too, and you know i i love the way that you bring your characters to life, but i also love that you draw inspiration from all kinds of things, and it's not just the role.
You are a music fan.
You're a deep, deep cinema nerd who's always wanted to make films, not just starring them.
So it's a comedy nerd and a comedy nerd.
It's a different mentality for somebody, i think, who wants to be in front of the camera, and that's your single aspiration to someone who likes that.
But it's a part of a much broader ambition, which is to be in cinema in every capacity.
And I feel like that's you.
I feel like you want to know it all. it's all become one thing, you know?
And I think that's kind of what the past 10 years have been like for me, and more specifically the last five years where you haven't really seen me.
I was building a life and a, you know, a company called Strong Baby to produce our own films.
And now we get, I have two films coming out that I directed three months apart.
First one being Outcome which we're here to talk about today, but we produced Overcompensating Benny Skinner Show on Amazon and getting to put other voices out there.
My best friend Matt, who's over there.
Matt Dines, we started Strong Baby together with Ally Goodwin and we've been friends since preschool.
Directing a lot of commercials, music videos, making my bones.
So it's now been seven years since my first film, and now my third and fourth film as a director are coming out this year.
That's right.
So it's now.
And in the last two we produce them.
They're big studio movies.
We produce them, i directed them, co-wrote them and i act in them.
So what i mean?
It's all become one thing, it's all.
It's not like hey, do you love that?
People are like, what do you love more, acting or directing?
I'm like, now it's all one thing.
It's just the movie.
What turns you on and gets you excited about a project?
I mean, obviously you write or co-write a majority of what you do and you conceptualize them.
So it's not like you're in a position where people are pitching you exclusively at this point.
You're very involved in every aspect of it.
So you know what is the kind of moment when you realize okay yeah, I've got something here that I want to explore deeper, and it's not just an idea that I think I can flesh this out and make something cool out of this.
It's an amazing question because it's so a part of what I do.
Like if you asked me what I do, you shook me in the middle of the night.
You're like, what do you do?
I'd be like, I'm a writer, right?
So writing- Get the fuck out of my house.
I'd be like, Jesus, sit down.
I'd be like, I'm a writer, you know, like that's what I do.
So it all starts with, do I want to fall in love with writing this thing?
Because when you start writing it, you start writing the screenplay, but you write till the movie comes out.
You're writing ADR jokes, you're writing new things, you're rewriting score as part of the characters you know, like all the things is writing.
So everything is writing.
What it is is is after Mid-90s came out.
I was so lucky like people liked it and really like kind of the people, that the decision makers liked it.
So I kind of got, I wanted to be like, shit, okay, should I direct like a Marvel movie?
Like, what am I gonna do?
You know like I got all these kind of cool opportunities And ultimately I could not figure out what I was going to do next.
And I'll never be in that position again, which is locking a movie while not making another movie.
But do you think that to some degree going back to mid 90s, because I love that film, I found it profoundly reflective and quite moving, whilst I was also loving the soundtrack and the whole culture of it.
Cause I grew up in the nineties and so the whole skating, the moment when particular hip hop and skating made each other and just the whole vibe I was very familiar with.
But it was a moving narrative.
Did you find that like the idea of not being prepared to do your next thing really into some degree, just to kind of put a bit of grace in the equation is because that was kind of the closest thing to your life story up to that point.
So you know you sort of.
At that point it's like well, i've got to kind of start again, because i just told a big part of my childhood on on camera.
Like Mid-90s was not my exact life but it was very personal in fact, about a lot of my friends' lives and things I saw and really just about what it was like to be a grom at the skate shop and make your way up through the animal kingdom of like being the lowest on the totem pole to acceptance and all these things and the guys you look up to being more flawed when you look back on it than they were at the time, than you did at the time, etc.
But yeah, it's often what a band does, what i, a lot of my friends who are musicians and why i want to talk to you the most because i love when you making a movie, a directing movie, is like making an album.
Yeah, you know, acting in movies, in movies like kind of like having a guest song on album, you know like you're singing on someone's track but like um and you get to do a feature and it's really dope.
But when you make a movie it's like you know, sometimes four years, sometimes the minimum two years.
So it's really like your album and what you're about at that time.
And, like a lot of first time directors, a lot of first time first album kind of vibe, where I put everything into that first album and then it's like what's now, you know what's next.
So a lot of bands is the soft All these ideas I had when I was 14, 16, 18, I'm throwing it all in.
Every song I never wanted to see set to music.
You know like you fantasize in the shower about it when you're driving.
You know, I'm like, oh, and I got nothing left.
I'm like, what do I do?
Yeah.
So in a lot of bands I know and musicians have that thing where it's like the sophomore slump.
You're like, what now?
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So I'll never leave myself in that position again.
Cause what I learned is I love the process.
I love to be in the process of making a movie.
So like outcomes coming out.
But we have another movie coming out called cutoff, in July, three months later uh, with Kristen wig and myself.
And yeah, We're cutting it right now.
I'm seven weeks into my director's cut.
We're screening it tonight.
And it's fun to show friends and family and get their notes.
But you get to see what a movie's like as it's being put together.
So I love that outcome's coming out and I can talk about it, but I'm already in love with the next thing.
I love outcome and people are going to love this film.
And we're going to talk about why very soon.
But but equally, you know you can't do any more.
Like onto the next thing.
That's why, when I talk to my friends who put an album out, the smart ones are already working on the next one or figuring out what the next step is going to be.
Cause it's like, that's for you now.
Yeah.
I remember I saw Tyler, the creator, once when I wasn't younger.
I've been old.
I am old and was old then probably.
He had made a song with the game.
That's how long ago it was.
It was a dun, dun, dun, dun, dun.
You know the one.
I saw him at his shop.
This is how long ago it was.
He was hanging out at his shop.
I can't imagine him hanging out on Fairfax now.
But I saw him and I was like, dude, I love that song.
He was almost angry.
He's like, I can't, you got to see what I'm doing now.
Like he was so onto the next thing that he couldn't even stomach me talking about what I had heard like last week.
And I never understood that.
I was like, man, why can't you just be like sick?
And now I understand like you got to be in love with the next thing.
And for musicians, that's easier because your medium, you can sit in a room and start making stuff.
I got a really, so let me go back to the, how an idea creates and then I'll shut up.
But, like you know like like um, it all in my notes section.
So shout out apple, where we both work.
Strong baby is an apple company, we strong baby and it works at apple um, but the notes section.
So what happens is i'll get some something, an idea, a character or something, And then I'll start writing my notes section jokes songs colors, things that inspire me about this idea or whatever like outcome.
The original germ was like, who's the last person on earth I wanna see canceled?
Keanu Reeves.
We love keanu reeves, we don't want to see keanu reeves cancel because we love keanu reeves, and so that was the initial idea.
And then in my notes section i'm like okay, there's a crazy lawyer that, like you know, gets a call for a video blah blah, that's me, i'll play that part.
And then once it overwhelms your notes section and like the percentage is the highest that you're going into that section of your note section to think about it.
You know you're in love.
And once you're in love and you can't stop thinking about anything else, that's the next movie.
Then we take it.
We have a whole process with, like our strong baby crew.
We have like a bunch of producers amanda adelson, ali goodwin, cat aguilar works here, you know um, we.
We then take it to the boards and we start putting ideas up on boards characters, things and they start, a story starts to take place, and then we work rigorously on the plumbing of a story, which is what, which is how a story works as a drama, even if it's the dumbest movie ever made.
Like you gotta, in order to choose colors and get to choose tiles for your kitchen, the toilet's gotta flush.
So it's architecture.
I have to be invested in these characters beyond the one-liner, beyond the punchline.
Yeah, and it's gotta work as a drama, even if it's about someone you know.
The dumbest movie you've ever seen in your life.
But that's one of the things I really like about this film.
And actually what you've already expressed as a director is a real subtlety for emotion.
You have no problem parking a real quip, like a real one-liner, right next to something that is actually an emotional counterpoint to that joke.
That's such a nice compliment because some people don't like that.
A viewer, like they may not like that.
I love how life happens.
Something tragic happens next to something funny.
Well, also both are way more related than most people like to acknowledge.
No one really wants to think about how funny sadness and bad things can be and how bad humor can make light of.
You know what I mean?
It's like they're so related in so many ways.
Stand-up comedy is in its very nature, kind of someone wins, someone loses, and someone's in pain.
That's kind of it, right?
I mean, that's it.
And people call that maybe a drastic tonal shift in the wrong hands.
But I view it as a feature, not a bug.
It's a stylistic characteristic of now having made four movies. my style, I guess.
And it happens in mid nineties, it happens in studs, it happens in outcome, it happens in cutoff.
So I, as much as I, you know, I'm not trying to, it's just a function of my storytelling.
I'm learning and something I'm interested in because in life I mean, some of the hardest I've ever laughed is at a funeral.
You know like you're hanging out with people that love this person and you're cracking jokes and you know like, or you know some of the saddest I've been.
I'll make it a movie where I gotta get like a pie in the face and something tragic is happening in my life.
You know.
So it's not all one thing.
And I like to make films that kind of reflect that.
Keanu Reeves is the perfect lead actor in a movie like this, because he's so amazing and he's a trickster.
He's a trickster on screen.
He tricks you into thinking he's doing one thing, and then you realize that you're so invested in a different side of him, and he reveals it at really key moments.
Thanks to you and the team.
What's he like to direct?
He's amazing.
He's amazing, man.
I gotta say, that guy is so incredible.
Not just you know every interview you gotta say like fluff up the movie star or whatever.
But I pitched him this idea in my backyard.
He came over.
I said, I got an idea.
I'd never met the dude.
We got him to come over.
He came over.
I told him the idea.
I said, you're like Tom Cruise, the most beloved movie star.
And you get a call from your crazy lawyer that there's a video and no one knows what's on the video.
And I'm gonna have you apologize to everyone, but not to be a better person, but to find out who's extorting you.
And that was all I pitched him and he goes, I'm in, go write it.
And the dude never wavered.
He never left my side, like the entire time.
He was the most prepared, the most down for the character I've ever.
I've ever experienced.
You know he's so dedicated and I'm obsessed with, like Keanu, all of the Keanu's you know like, but most you know like my nephews are like oh sick John Wick's in this movie.
Like you know and I'm, like you know, know i've seen him do my own private idaho or really, where i wanted to do this with him was, like you know, a big influence on this.
Movie's like adaptation by friend and mentor spike jones, and one of the greatest dudes ever.
But um, you know, Nick Cage's performance in Adaptation is a guy who's just so unhinged you can't get a gauge on him emotionally right.
And I wanted to see Keanu do that, but I had no.
You know, there's not a lot of proof that he could do that, but that's what made it exciting to me.
But then I thought of Parenthood, which is one of the best movies ever, this Ron Howard film, and there's a scene where he goes off on Martha Plimpton And he, he's so emotionally off and he's kinda yelling at them.
And I'm like, I never seen that Keanu.
I'm like, who's that guy?
Let's pull some of that guy out.
Yeah, I mean he exists in a real middle ground in terms of perception of him now, between the movie star, the box office smasher, which you reflect in this character, but also this human being that has fought really hard for a life, has worked really, really hard to pump the brakes or slow the train down.
And I feel like he was almost one of the first people to come out of that crazy 90s fucking insanity who actually was like I think I can do both, but it's going to be a real process.
That's what I always took from his experience.
Yeah, and i can't speak so deeply on his inner, you know, in in that capacity moment to moment, but what i can tell you is that he's a real person and he's a real great person and and a guy I like ride for, no matter what.
Yeah, and I think we see it in the character a little bit, and that's one of the things maybe he recognized away from the tape element of it was this idea of like reform, trying to figure out who you are to yourself in the eyes of so many others.
And, by the way, it's not just on his shoulders.
Everybody in the film is going through that for some to some capacity.
Yeah, and i want to say it's funny because it's like you know, i use the prism of a movie star, but the movie's about social media, totally straight up.
It's just about how i noticed my nephews felt the same anxiety i felt as a famous person.
Yeah, by posting something and checking what people were saying about them.
Yeah, and ultimately it's about that because of social media, we give a shit more about what people we don't know think about us than the three people who we actually spend time around.
And that's why I love the movie, because I think it really works on that level.
You know yeah, it speaks to society and how we function or don't, as the case may be with all of these tools at our disposal now and the distractions that we have.
But but there was also like, at the heart of it, there is a redemption story, a story about somebody who has to come to terms with the decisions that they made, the path that they were either set upon, that ultimately took control over, but not accountability for.
And at the end there's a beautiful moment not to give too much away, where it finally- It's hard not to give away the ending of this movie.
I've realized in interviews.
Yeah, but I mean, there is a beautiful accountability that comes to the surface here.
And I wonder what that was like to shoot, you know, to get to a point where there was resolution.
It was a great time.
Matt and I were like, yo, we did it, dude.
We were like dreaming about making movies, and now we're the producer of this movie, and Keanu Reeves and Cameron Diaz are here.
But then the emotions of the movie.
It was meant to be more of a laugh out loud, like slapstick comedy.
And it has that, but I can't help myself.
Like I just can't help myself.
I guess I'm an emotional dude.
And I think that the emotion, just it, was important.
It became important to follow how emotional the movie was getting.
And not- Did that surprise you?
Did it surprise you as you were shooting?
It did surprise me, but we went to dinner, you know, we were lucky.
Martin Scorsese's in the movie.
We're gonna get to that.
He's incredible in the movie.
So good.
And heartbreaking.
And we went to dinner with him like kind of a week before we started.
And he said, just listen to the movie.
Just make sure you listen to it.
Make sure you listen to what it's saying to you.
You know, don't like wrestle it into like what you need it, you think it needs to be.
Be present.
Yeah, because I was like, damn, the movie's not funny enough.
The movie's not funny enough.
And I was like, and Apple was like, we love it.
That's why I love Apple, man.
They love that it was going in an emotional direction.
They were like we're happier that it's moving on a human level than it is just joke for joke, right?
That's why I love working with them.
They were superb partners on an artistic level, like beyond what I've ever experienced.
And shout out Zach and Jamie and Lejo and Dentler and all those guys and girls and Anne.
And, you know, like the movie did surprise me.
You know, I tend I'm a comedian, so like I tend to write jokes and then have to deal with what those jokes mean.
So I like to say things and have things be jokes.
But then what I love as myself is it's now seeping its way into my movies and art.
Is you go?
All right, we'll speak on it.
What did that actually mean?
Why did you make that joke?
And a lot of the movie is what does an apology mean and how performative apologies can be.
And our apologies for the person apologizing are they for the person getting apologized to?
I really think about why i'm apologizing to someone if i apologize to him, and this movie really helped me with that, because i didn't, because i this line just came out of me where marty goes.
Can i ask you something, reeve?
What are you sorry for?
Yeah, it's a great and it changed the whole movie because it it.
It was the first amends we shot.
And then so like you didn't go on and on throughout the movie, and you go, I go wow, like why did I write that?
What did that mean?
Yeah, you are a songwriter.
That's what songwriters do.
I mean, they put things down.
They have an inner voice that's searching for an outer vehicle, and you find it.
And then you learn something about yourself in the process.
And I want to talk a little bit about the learning of it.
But just while we're talking about Martin Scorsese, you gave him some real lines, man.
I mean, there's a line in there I'm the guy you leave if I do my job right is one of the all-time great lines about the journey in life the people you leave behind in order to fulfill your ambition.
Thank you.
And it's a really beautiful, yeah.
Thank you.
I'm proud of that.
It's a really beautiful line.
And it and it also really kind of stops you in your tracks and makes you think about like did I?
Did I always give credit where it was due?
Or was I too busy focusing on the next thing?
Thinking everyone would be happy for me.
It's a real accountability line at a moment when you probably should be just focused on winning.
But at what cost?
Yeah, I think that's the social media thing.
Are you thinking about everybody ever?
But you can't.
That's the thing.
And I think in your 20 you know for Reef's, you know Keanu's character's perspective, Reef when you're a kid or a teenager in your 20s you're like that's, that's the carrot.
I'm running towards the carrot yeah, you know yeah, and then you look back and you go i didn't appreciate that person.
But that seems really about though, less from a career's perspective is yeah, it's sad.
From from red's perspective, marty's character it's really sad because he has to know that if he does well, these people will leave him.
Yeah right yeah, but what he, what he says is is just, i wish you would just call and say hi, But the thing is that's about like calling my dad.
That's about calling like studs or these older OGs that I look up to, that aren't gonna be around forever.
It is the stinger in the tail.
If you're lucky enough to mature in life, come out of your own fog of delusion and ambition and goals.
And you actually take a little stock.
I do think the stinger is the time that you didn't take to check in on the ones who supported you unconditionally.
That's definitely stung me.
I've had moments in my life where I really have had to like take a good long, look at myself and gone, like you could have caught a couple more times or given a shit.
Yeah.
It's a tough one.
It is.
It is a sacrifice.
It is.
And you gotta like, you know, it's the corniest thing with that song, like cats in the cradle.
I can't even listen to it now.
Cause I've, you know sons, but like you know, like that, like you're too busy, the dad's too busy working, and then the kid's too busy to hang out with the dad.
I think, as a parent and i'm parents, i got two kids it's important that we address those things and realize like for us it's about time management, for them it's about right now.
Yeah, I'm really lucky man because I was older.
I was 39 when I had my first kid.
So I, for some reason, got the message.
That's the thing, you know, like you will never regret a second spent with this dude, you know?
And so I'm blessed that we work so hard on these movies and we are allowed to just have that be our job.
That's the goal of life that we get to make, making these movies just, that is just our job.
So it's that.
And this.
And that.
Simple, man.
It took a lot of... being cool, being desirable.
What's my puzzle?
I've transitioned from Bart Simpson to Homer Simpson and I'm more than happy with it.
Comedically and otherwise, I am a fat dad and it's rad.
Right down to Homer in the bush.
Literally, I don't need to be in this thing.
Literally, dude.
And I think it's only opened up comedically, storytelling and but also just a joy, you know, because yo like, if you work in our lines of work, you have to be inherently kind of self focused.
You know, you are, it's impossible not to.
This really stripped that kind of away in a good way.
Where are your channels of perspective?
Obviously a powerful one is being a parent.
That is like, remove yourself from this and focus on this.
I find therapy be really good for me.
I don't know if you rely on that as well, but I mean, you're right in your particular role in your job.
Even if you're acting right when you're back in front of the camera, the directors require you to be the best Jonah Hill you can be for that role in that situation.
And yet you're at a point, like you've pointed out, where it's like I don't know if that's going to serve me in its entirety anymore.
Like I need other ways of creating perspective, right, of space and grace.
Like are you still as consumptive as you were as a kid when it was all that mattered?
No, because you're just corny and irresponsible if you don't put your family first.
It's just like duh, you know, like there's nothing worth it.
You know, what i haven't done is i haven't acted for someone else, just been hired as an actor since don't look up the mckay movie and i wasn't a parent.
So i'm kind of excited to take an acting job like and see what that is like to not have as much responsibility now while um, like committing to that part, but in a way where I can leave it there, you know.
Take the learnings and apply.
Yeah, like I'm excited.
That's a new thing I haven't felt yet.
So I'm kind of excited for that.
But also right now, it's just like these are what's coming out of me.
So that's what we're making.
Strong baby.
Strong baby.
Yeah.
And it's the most fun.
I mean, everyone we work with is like, such a beautiful person and you know there's so many highs and lows in putting a movie together of like, from trying to get it financed to 20 drafts of the script to a screening that goes sideways.
It's like, I'm showing Kristen Wiig for the first time tonight.
I'm like, oh shit.
And we're just their support system.
And then I have that at home and I have that at work and I need that.
So if you ask me, it's really just love and support.
Like I work with people I really appreciate and they're like family and i and then i have a family and then, like you know, i have a couple friends who i care about very deeply.
But you know that'll always be so important but it it simplifies things.
I don't know and i love the work and i love the dadness.
Do you find time to surf still?
Are you still surfing?
Oh yeah.
I learned not to talk about it.
Thank God I got off social media.
If I think about any post I ever posted on social media, I cringe to the point where I want to dig a hole and like bury myself in there.
I've been off for like four or five years now or something like that.
And I made just the ultimate mistake, which was just talking about surfing on social media.
And yeah, I just quietly do my thing.
Yeah, no, that's beautiful.
You've reached a peaceful place for yourself and only for yourself.
That serves a community purpose as well, which is like, by its very design.
It is like man, if you can't find peace doing this on your own without broadcasting it, then why the fuck?
I will say without saying a lot it is definitely the third component.
Yeah yeah, like a um uh, just joy for no one else.
But you know, like when you have a moment with your son and it's beautiful, he laughs or something, that's for no one but you, him and god right, like that's just for, that's not for show right, a moment in the waters, like that.
You know you're just like this is for nobody else.
I probably looked like shit, but to me i was kelly slater out there, you know, mikey february, what's it like?
What's it like sort of uh, developing a script and making a film that really throws a very bright spotlight on social media and the impact it can have on everybody, from the day-to-day human being who's moving things around to the person everyone wants to see and talk about, when you haven't actually been on social media for the last four years, i mean, how did that kind of adjust your perspective as a writer?
Sort of having some distance from it and not being in it.
I don't see what's cool, So I create from a place of what's bringing me creative joy.
Clearly, because my coolest years were four years ago.
And so if you'd been on social media the last four years, you wouldn't be sitting here right now having a conversation with me where you were the king.
I really appreciate you taking a shot on me.
It's been four years since anyone of anyone.
No, nothing crosses my desk.
So if a big, you know, I'll read the news, but like, you know, I don't know shit about what's cool.
So what I'm doing is I'm creating and I don't know shit about, like you know, keeping up with the Joneses.
I don't live my life and I'm like, should I be doing this?
Should I be doing that?
What I'm obsessed with is what I need to be doing.
And so I'm not like, is this what's popping right now?
The truth in something being moving or funny is always popping.
You don't have to like chase it.
And that's where I want to create from.
I don't want to be influenced by fear of what everyone else is doing.
I wanna just see what gets me going.
And I trust myself now, as a 42 year old, having done work for 24 years, to say okay, this is my turn to create.
I'm now the guy I wanted to be.
I always was like at the test screenings as a Grom being in the movies with Judd and Seth and them going like I can't wait till I'm like the guy making movies.
And it's like, right now is my turn.
Why?
Not because I think I'm cool, but because they're allowing me to make it.
So if you get to make it, it's your turn.
And I relish that.
I really take a joy in that.
It must be great for someone like Marty as well.
And I can say that because I've interviewed him.
I've spoken to Marty.
It was great interview.
Thanks, man.
We had dinner with him that night.
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
That night you interviewed me.
Okay, cool story that no one cares about.
No, no, I care about it.
Story for no one.
I care about it.
Hi, story for no one.
I'm here for the Zane Lowe interview.
It's the arc of my entire career.
No, I mean what must be really nice for Marty as well.
Who's directed you?
Seen you like at, I would say, kind of peak, like star power in Wolf of Wall Street.
I mean shit, you fucking stole almost every scene.
You're in in a fucking scene of scene stealers.
It's pretty incredible and I appreciate you acknowledging that because it is like an undeniable fucking role that you played.
He's seen you, he's directed you.
He's seen you do that.
You carry on trying to chase those roles down, you can spiral off into space.
We've seen it happen before.
For you to take a step back and start to build something that he's built.
When he saw you and caught up with you again and you went and met with him and talked about this role, there must have been a moment, without betraying trust, where you could see in his eyes or perhaps he acknowledged that like this is great.
Like where you are landing with this, with this production company, with making these films top to bottom, bringing me in, directing me?
I mean, that's what people like Martin Scorsese live for, isn't it?
To see people get it.
He's just the most beautiful guy.
You know, he's just, he's just the best.
He's just true to himself.
Never full of shit.
You know, obviously the goat.
You know like you go back and forth.
If you're lucky enough to have a friendship with him, which I can say I do is you do go back and forth from him becoming your friend to going this is the guy who made Goodfellas.
You know like you can't not.
And that's part of the friendship.
I have people like that in my life.
That's okay.
And it's okay that that's part of the friendship, you know, because he knows he should have that reverence from a young person who wants to do what he does.
But I'll tell you, I'll share a story that felt good.
Okay.
Which was So I haven't done these interviews, and the three interviews I'm doing for this movie are this and Rick Rubin, and then Interview Magazine.
And they said, who do you want to interview you for Interview Magazine?
And my publicist Liz said, let's ask Marty.
And I was shy.
I don't like putting people in the position to have to say no to...
I mean, we had shot the movie.
He was in the movie.
He hadn't seen it yet, but he had, per second hand, he really is unbelievable in the movie.
I'm not just, he really is incredible in the movie.
And- Moving.
And funny.
And I can say that without, you know, just truthfully, his work is beautiful.
And-
And he hadn't seen it yet, and I didn't want to ask him.
And, you know, me and him share a manager, Rick Yorn.
Rick Red Yorn.
Love Rick.
Yeah, Rick's the man.
I love Rick.
We all love Rick.
We all work for Rick in some capacity.
Um rick, of course, made it happen because he's rick and i felt awkward because it's interview magazine, it's.
It's him interviewing me.
He was seeing the movie like you saw it last night, like the night or two before we just finished it, and i felt awkward because i was like, if he said yes, if he doesn't like it, he's gonna give these remarks about it that are so obvious where he's trying to be nice because he likes me, but he didn't like the movie.
You know, you're in your head on this.
Well just, you know, in certain circumstances you can't not be.
I won't beat myself up for that.
It's not like every interaction is like that.
I'm like yeah, it's your film, he's a director, he's a hero, it means a lot like it.
It's high stakes emotions, and then so, And right away he started talking about the movie and I'll just say in a broad, blanket statement that he just seemed to love the movie.
And the compliments he gave and the things he said about the movie are exactly what I would pray he would notice and compliment.
And he kept saying he was proud of me.
And I was like you know, it's one thing, you know actors that become directors or you know it's a cliche they suck, they have star power and they can convince their friends to do things.
And you know, and he's seen all my movies and to this point, and he's like what a crazy jump from mid 90s and studs to this, you know, and he said he was genuinely proud of me multiple times and and i know marty well enough to know that He A wouldn't have done the interview.
And I go, well, why did you do this interview if you hadn't seen it yet?
What if you hated it?
I asked him that.
And he said, I read the script.
He's like, I knew what it was.
He's like, and then you did better than I thought, you know?
And so, so.
Yeah, of course, to me that is the most you know.
Making it and spending those days with him, directing him, is the thing.
The process is the reward, but that's a nice little reward, you know?
And it's also an extra reward to have someone you admire that much say that.
And I could feel it, you know?
Those moments.
And I, you know, I save them.
I save those kind of observations.
I don't try to hide them with humility.
I love them.
When I'm having a tough day or I'm scared of doing something or whatever.
I remember something somebody said
I'll probably say something you said today.
I'll be like, oh, fuck, you know, but man, that time Jonah gave me genuine love.
You're great.
I mean, you've already said it.
Now it feels like a trade, which is weird, and I don't want it to- But you are.
No, but again, the more you say it, now I'm not believing it.
I felt like I believed it more the first time.
You guys just know I mean it.
You're great.
Now you say, you know I mean it.
Who says that and doesn't-
Who's the neurotic one now?
Oh, dude, you have to tell me.
Wow.
My fucking God, are you kidding me?
No, you're great.
You're the Scorsese of interviews, man.
There's some real on-the-nose shit here, which I thought was really interesting.
For a film that's telling a story about how fucking acerbic and fractious the internet can be and opinion and all this sort of stuff.
It's really like Ira's a shitty person, except when he's with his kid, where he's beautiful and amazing and it's such an interesting little ray of light in an otherwise fucking shitty situation, uh.
But you know, there's some pictures on the walls which are pretty like on the nose.
Uh, you know, there's a moment we should say Ira, Ira.
The character I play is uh like a 65 year old, like crisis lawyer, like if you kill someone, his job.
You're like Tom Hanks, you call Ira yeah, his job, to keep the money coming in.
Really,
It's not even to save your life or save your freedom.
It's just to keep the bucks coming in to some degree.
Yeah, his job is to play the best chess to keep you able to keep your stature in earning money as an entertainer.
I would say you said something before which is really interesting, which is the idea of, like comedians make jokes and then deal with the consequences later.
There are some of those in this film.
There are some moments, like you know, there's a, there's a kanye west joke in there.
Yeah, in my office there's a big frame picture of yay yeah um, and meaning that he was a client of mine, and then it's a joke we did visually yes, which is ira brings reef in when there's this video and we don't know what's on the video, and he brings him into his competition.
He's like i got the dream team in here, that's right.
And he's got laverne cox who plays she plays virginia, who's like this uh, you know, for women whose rights have been violated would be a lawyer.
That is a public face of that.
And there's the Reverend.
And then there's the Reverend Leondris.
That's right.
Played by the great Roy Wood Jr., who's incredible.
That's right.
And then there's Otzko, one of our favorite comedians, who started the hashtag stop imitating Asian people.
And they're all there as insurance in case the video portrays.
We don't know what's on it.
We don't know what's on the video.
So it's like a safety net.
And the whole time he's like, why is she here?
I didn't.
And we're like, we know, we know, I know.
I'm like, but if you did, you're gonna want her here, you know?
And he goes, and then Roy goes, I pray to God you didn't say the word on that video.
And he's like, I would never, I know, I know, Bobby, I know. what if you did, you're good.
And he goes, if you did, we're gonna hold hands and walk through the fire together, my brother.
And Roy was just incredible.
And then there's a joke that goes I say, where's the guy from the antisemitism community?
Why isn't he here?
And my assistant character says oh, we did the, we did the research and it turns out hating jews doesn't hurt your career, it helps it and it cuts to the picture of kanye.
That's right right, and so the reason why i put that in there was not just to take a shot at kanye.
I love the kanye that i've met over the years.
I love the artist.
I think there is no artist I probably love more across any genre ever.
I think he is probably the greatest artist to ever live.
Even he thinks that.
Your interviews with him are like things I've seen, as much as I've seen.
The Godfather just quotes and gaga.
You know, like he's a genius and the stuff with the hate stuff sucks.
It's brutal.
What are you gonna say?
It sucks no matter who you are to hear that.
Now, do I know what's going on?
No.
Am I gonna punch someone while they're down?
No, of course not.
But in the midst of all this Jew stuff, he did Instagram a picture of me in the 21 Jump Street poster because my phone blew up and he said something along the lines of I don't hate Jews anymore because I love Jonah Hill.
Right?
So I felt that he did this bizarre public thing to kind of make up like, it's all good.
Cause I love Jonah.
Just sat with me in a way that it's like all good.
Like I love him still.
And I hope, whatever happens, he can like, heal or whatever, and everyone can heal from all that stuff.
That's the human position and i'm with you on that.
Yeah, i hope he.
I hope he can heal and and make it right with the people he needs to make it right to in the jewish community.
Whatever me and him got no beef.
I just put that in there like yo, you're gonna put the 21 jump street poster up there and say you don't hate jews anymore.
That's pretty wild.
I'm gonna put a picture of you saying that like hating Jews helps your career.
Obviously that's a joke on my part.
It doesn't help your career, but it's me just having fun with like, all right, I'm a comedian.
It's not horribly mean to Kanye that joke.
No.
And also to your point.
Where our society is kind of at, where does it get you more followers to go spout hateful shit?
That's part of my point about the internet.
What gets you clout or attention?
It's also, you know, you- Not being nice.
There's no such, as I said to my friends, there's no such thing as a feel good hit of the summer anymore.
You know, if you're going to have a hit, it's got to divide opinion.
It's got to be something that is just really like intense.
And I remember when I was growing up you could have a feel good hit of the summer that didn't really do anything but make you feel something good.
Oh, I think you could have a feel good hit of the summer.
The new Bruno Mars song, I just might.
Like that's you know it's not summer yet, but like that's just a song, that's just about having a good time.
That's why I love Bruno Mars.
Fucking guy has a good time.
And, like you know, it's like he has hits that aren't like you know, they're not trying to like appétit Banger.
Is a banger.
Is such a banger.
I just wonder in this, and I agree with you.
Cut off the next movie I'm doing.
This movie is deeply emotional.
Deeply, you know, gonna have people feeling some way, in a good way hopefully, and have conversations.
Cut off is pure stupidity.
It is pure the jerk stepbrothers.
Me and Kristen Wiig are two middle-aged heirs that get cut off by our parents in their mid forties.
You follow up these jokes, and they are jokes, but you follow it up with a really interesting statement, which is
Honk if you can separate the art from the artist.
I can't believe you got that, man.
That's like my favorite thing in the movie.
I fucking love it, right?
Because it is the great debatable conversation point amongst anybody who loves art but also likes people and wants people to like relate to each other.
You got to set the context of how complicated it hits you in the movie because you've had this...
Ira's this guy you have such mixed feelings about.
He protects artists that do terrible things.
You hate him, but then you see him with his son, who has special needs, and he's a beautiful father, and you kind of feel mixed about him.
He then confronts Reef Keanu's character in a way that no one's ever confronted this person and shows that he deeply cares.
Keanu Reeves' character is a huge dick to him.
And then you see him get in his son's handicap van and there's a bumper sticker that says honk.
If you can separate the art from the artist,
It's brilliant.
And it just is meant to get you thinking.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
A ton.
What is he trying to say?
Yeah.
It's not that I have some grand thing to say.
I'm trying to get you in that moment to think about all these emotions you're feeling mixed with.
Are we allowed to care about somebody whose art we love, who we don't agree with their choices?
I don't know.
Yeah, it's complicated.
It's the question of our times.
It's kind of a case by case basis.
If you're into culture, if you're into music and film and all that, you can't not ask yourself that question right now.
And then outside from that, I make bumper stickers as a hobby.
You do?
Yeah, so that was one that I had just thought of as a joke.
And then we ended up finding a way emotionally, to write it into the movie in a great moment with John Bryan's score which, if we want to talk music, John Bryan, is goaded.
He did the score for the movie.
And it just hits you in a real emotional way and a way to make you go.
Am I supposed to laugh right now?
Am I supposed to think right now?
I mean, it made me really laugh.
Because like your point, you set it up brilliantly.
It was like this tipping point of like, my God, I'm so confused as to who I'm rooting for here.
And at the end of the day, you just ask that question the perfect time.
This heavy question on a bumper sticker.
I know, on a fucking bumper sticker.
Are you going to manufacture bumper stickers with that on it?
I mean, we want to start the Strong Baby bumper sticker corporation, part of arm of our division.
Do you make bumper stickers just because you come up with shit like that all the time.
Yeah, it's like writing jokes.
So it's basically like writing a joke.
Basically, I saw this one, our costume designer had one that said, honk if you don't exist.
And I thought that was hysterical.
Natasha, she's the costume designer on this movie, did brilliant work.
So I saw that in a car and I started cracking up.
And then I was like, oh, that's a great joke writing exercise.
We had a great contest in the art department.
The homie won.
I got to look at his name because he won the contest.
You did a contest on Best Bumper Sticker?
Not Best Bumper Sticker.
I wanted your mom spelled in the coexist font.
You know those coexist fonts that, like already, teachers have.
Yeah, and i wanted your mom, while you are mom in the coexist font and it's dope, he won the contest.
I got framed in my office like the original Fuck Strong Baby man.
You guys are like- We do shit like that.
You do fun shit.
And it's fun.
We will release them with the movies.
I bet for this one, we would release the honk if you could separate the art from the artist.
Yeah, yeah, do it.
We try and do fun stuff like that.
John Bryan, man, I love him.
Last time I saw John well, maybe not saw John, but last time we spoke on the record was around Mac's posthumous album that he produced.
That was an incredible interview.
I saw that.
Thanks, man.
That was a very emotional evening.
And he's just a beautiful soul.
Music runs through him.
He has the most amazing ability to shapeshift into whatever you need if he feels it.
What was the experience like working with someone like John?
Yo, so I go to bed at six o'clock.
I have like babies.
At night?
I go to like seven, whenever my son goes to sleep, right?
So I literally go to bed then and wake up like mad early with him and watch.
We call it Blippi and Baba.
So we use a little Blippi and Baba.
I remember that.
How old's your son, by the way?
I'm gonna say straight up, I have beef with one human being on this planet and it's Blippi.
Okay.
Like, you could couch hands if I see any of the blippies.
There's been, like, three of them.
But, like, you ruined my life the past couple years.
Any parents know what I'm talking about?
Bluey, opposite.
Big hugs.
As a parent man, you do develop irrational distrust, slash dislike for certain childlike characters that are created to help development.
Well, they sell toys.
Cause you'll see, and then on the YouTube, like you know, the commercial for the next thing he'll see a toy.
And then he asked me for that toy, whatever side, side, no, whatever.
And you know like Bluey, on the other hand, is like, masterful and like, makes you feel good and is giving the right lessons to your kids.
It's a metaphor for life.
Your kid is seeing the good and evil of society through these two characters and you're right there.
So I go to bed at like 7 p.m.
John Bryan is nocturnal.
He starts work at like, he started early for me at 9 p.m.
Dude, I don't, I would be up all day working and then go to do, he only works at night.
I loved working with him.
The score in the movie is beautiful.
To have a John Bryan score for one of my films is like bucket list.
If you've ever seen like Eternal Sunshine and Spotless Minds, like one of the greatest scores ever.
My first movie, I Heart Huckabees, he's just a goat.
And produced the first two Kanye, or the second Kanye album with him, I think.
Late registration and then maybe graduation, I think.
Just brilliant guy.
Did you ever hear the story about Jim Jamush when he was working on Ghost Dog and he asked RZA to do the music on Ghost Dog?
And the legend is that RZA would call him at three in the morning and be like.
Maybe he was in Bobby Digital mode, I don't know, maybe he'd be like.
Yo, Jim.
You got to meet me.
You got to meet me down on the corner of 136th and 5th in like 25 minutes.
And Jim Jamush is like, it's two in the morning.
So he'd like go down there and there'd be just one van. on the corner of the street.
And he'd be like, well, I guess this has got to be it.
So he'd knock on the door and the doors would open and RZA would be sitting in there making beats on the streets of New York.
And the whole Ghost Dog soundtrack was made nocturnally on different streets in New York.
And that's why it sounds the way it does, and that movie flows the way it does.
See, I love that shit, but in this part of my life, I'm like, can we work 9 to 5, Margie?
I'm so tired, you know?
Because when I was young, I was all about it.
I was like, fuck yeah, I'm an artist.
I'm going to be up all night with Jarman.
We're just two artists slaving away.
And it's like, after my third year of Ramate, I'm like, damn, I miss my bed.
I want to kiss my kid goodnight.
You know a lot of my decisions now.
You got to find the great artists that can also work within your timeline.
Like I'd work with John.
That's a vibe.
Yeah.
If you want to take care of your health.
You know, if you want to get your sleep, you got to.
Like you know, certain shit is worth it.
Like John Bryan's worth it.
You got to put it in the worth it category and staying up all night for John Bryan is worth it.
I am really happy for you and for your team at Strong Baby and what you're building.
I'm a big proponent of self-fulfilling artistic intention.
I've been talking to artists a lot in my life, like 30 plus years.
Too many of my friends, you know, give the game away and they struggle to get it back.
So I think, the sooner you realize that it's yours to run, it's your playbook ultimately, and you've got to make the decision to stand by and rise or fall.
I mean you didn't need like a fucking soliloquy at the end, but it's been such a nice for me, that's such encouragement for me, for us to hear that.
That's encouragement for us.
Like, no one wants a movie to be made, no one wants a company to be successful.
You have to have psychotic self-belief in dines and i we didn't have each other, it'd be in like one of us would be going.
You know it's like a marriage, like like you both can't be crazy at the same time.
Yeah, you know that's like me and him, and so it's like you have to believe.
And when one of us is down, the other person's like no, fuck this, we're gonna get it made.
What's amazing as well is that uh, and not just for your own kids, but for anybody who's young in this business right now, where it's becoming increasingly divided.
The pathways to any sense of fulfillment or achievement is so microscopically split now.
It's hard to create a singular picture.
That's OK, because these kids are strong.
They grew up in this world.
They understand this language.
They're not scared about it the way I am.
Yeah.
It doesn't terrify them.
It doesn't terrify them the way it terrifies me, but I'm terrified for them.
And I think what you guys are doing is, along with some of your contemporaries, is showing that you can make independent decisions with support, but smart decisions and go and make great art.
And I think that that's, man, we fucking need it.
We need more of it.
We need more movies that make us laugh and make us cry and make us feel things at the same time.
And we need great musical decisions and, Should I double down on my soliloquy?
You bring it out of me, Jonah.
Dude, it's beautiful, man.
I can't tell you if it's genuine, which it is.
Someone saying that, especially someone you respect that talks to such great artists.
Of course it's genuine.
No, no, I'm saying that means so much.
It's not lost because most of the time it's you just pushing yourself.
Yeah to say why am i even doing this?
You know, and ultimately, like you know, i'll be honest, when i was young i didn't appreciate like, what i, what i had.
You know, and i really appreciate every day i get to do this job.
It is not a gift.
It's not a given that you get to keep doing it.
What a gift to come to that realization at this point in your life.
Even you go like, I used to say, I have to do press today.
Yeah.
Right?
Like, and everyone bitches about press or you hear that kind of thing.
And I'm like, man, fuck that.
I get to go talk about our movie Outcome with Zane Lowe.
That is a gift and not a chore, you know?
If you enjoy like any percentage of your job, you are so lucky and in the minority.
And I deal with a lot of stuff in this job that i that is unfavorable, let's say that, for by any standard, and i am so lucky to have a job that i uh, i love such a high percentage of it, you know, or any percentage of it yeah, and the?
Is is completely outweighed by the community, the achievement of a community of people working together.
Um, all the people that keep coming back on the next movies what a dream, dude.
I never, i like i, just i.
I i'm so lucky to be in this position.
It's not lost on me, you know, and then i can only do it because i have people that love me behind the scenes.
You know, when i was young, it was just me in a house by myself, You know, and so uh, I don't know, knock on wood is my mom would say, but I'm a very I am the most lucky.
So I just don't take it for granted now, you know?
