Jimmy Fallon: I Wasn’t Prepared For The Hate… It Was Brutal. I Was Starving, Living on $7.25!｜The Diary Of A CEO with Steven Bartlett

I was just breaking down, mentally, like, what have I done?

I don't know what else to do with my life.

I think I wrote a letter to my best friend...

Like, I'm losing it, dude.

What did it say? It's a deep one.

Jesus. Jimmy, I was reading through your business portfolio and it's extremely extensive.

You've found a production company.

A RIDE shoes. You've got the ice cream.

The Tonight Dough. The throughline here is about making people happy.

I've always wanted to please people since I was a kid.

And in your eighth grade class, you were voted most likely to replace David Letterman on the late night show.

Is that crazy? Because I ended up doing that.

Well, it does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow.

Well, I was beyond obsessed.

I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live so I worked at the improv where I think the paycheck was $7 .25.

You didn't really eat much. Like, I would turn cardboard boxes on the street into tables.

It's tough. It's a lot of rejection, but the stage time was priceless.

And eventually you got a phone call?

I got an audition for Saturday Live.

This is my big opportunity.

I remember going on stage, did my first impression, and I blew it.

That was probably my lowest moment.

It was very depressing.

It's sad that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25.

I was gonna kill myself.

Did you mean that? Yeah.

But I just knew that I would be on Saturday Live.

It was going to happen.

And, against all odds, I did.

How old were you? 23.

So crazy. Jimmy, I found some photos.

Can you tell me about this one?

Oh my god. Wow. Quick one, before we get back to this episode, just give me 30 seconds of your time.

Two things I wanted to say.

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Here's a promise I'm gonna make to you.

I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can, now and into the future.

We're gonna deliver the guests that you want me to speak to and we're gonna continue to keep doing all of the things you love about this show.

Thank you. Thank you so much. Back to the episode.

Dude? Jamey, what do I need to know about you to understand the man that you are?

And when I ask that question, I'm specifically trying to understand your earliest context.

Because you're, in many respects, an anomaly.

But you're an anomaly that was very, very clear on where you wanted to go in your life from a shockingly young age.

So I'm wondering what gave you such clarity and what the context was that made, made you the unique way that you are?

Gosh, that's a great question.

This is gonna be the whole, this is gonna be the whole show right here.

I, because I want to find out.

I, you know, maybe, entertaining or being funny is probably or wanting to satisfy people.

I think, you know, wanting to please people, I've always wanted to please people.

Since I was a kid, like, I don't know if it was my parents or my grandparents, or I wanted to make people feel good and give everyone, if I'm at a party, I wanna make sure it's the best party, and I'm giving everything, I wanna make sure it's pleasing or appeasing, one of those words.

But I think I've always wanted to do that, and that's kind of what I do now.

Do you have an earliest memory of that behavior?

I think wanting to do good in, I don't know, At sports maybe or in grade school.

I remember I was an altar boy, you know so I was, at one point at one point in my life I wanted to be a priest. Yeah, which I thought, I think I'd be a pretty good priest. I think it'd be funny.

You know, I could have good delivery.

You know, someone said to me once, they said maybe you got your first taste of wanting to be an entertainer from being an altar boy because you're up on stage technically, and there's an audience, and you're up kind of performing, I mean walking around, and you're wearing an outfit, kind of, you know, you're wearing costume, and it's this kind of theater in a weird way, but I remember just wanting to do good, like make my parents proud or my grandparents proud, or there was a kind of, I mean, It all happened so fast that I don't have problems with it or go back to it and go like, oh, that was traumatic.

You know, I just think that I was always like a people pleaser.

Your parents were very strict?

Yeah. Very Catholic, very strict.

No cursing, no sex. You know, very Catholic.

You know, no dirty words, no. I would listen to comedy albums. You know, and my dad would take a key and scratch the curse words out of the record. He would find where the dirty word wasn't stopping and scratch it out of the record so I wouldn't hear it.

So I would hear Rodney Dangerfield and it would skip to the end of the joke.

He was like, whoa, I'll tell you, oh well, and then cut to people clapping and laughing.

I go, well, I don't even know what the joke was.

And he kind of ruined it.

I go, why are they laughing?

But I think quite, but he would, my dad would tape music videos.

You know, we'd have these shows in America, you know called like USA Night Flight or Friday night videos and then he taped these music videos, he would watch them on Saturdays and go tape to tape of what videos we could see that wasn't offensive at all or sexually inappropriate or something too advanced for us or something.

What was he like as a man?

Funny, life at the party, hard -working, very Brooklyn, very New York.

He sang in a doo wop group.

on the street corners.

So he would go, you know, not professionally, but just that was one of the things he did in high school.

And then he also fought in gangs, like not just beat each other up gangs.

Like, I don't think anyone killed each other, but this was back in the fifties where they just would one guy street corner would fight another street corner and they get together and just have a fist fight or something.

Tough guy. He's a tough guy.

Yeah, he's definitely.

No, not emotional. I've never seen my dad cry or any of that stuff.

Affectionate? Yeah.

I mean, I got love.

I love using hugs and stuff like that.

Yeah. I mean, not overly, not the way I think I am.

I'm hugging my kids every single day and telling them how proud I am of them and saying I love you, and they say, I love you back and I'm overly.

I didn't have that.

You know, I think it was just, my mom was more that.

And I think that was kind of put on my mom is you're the emotional, you hugged the kids and loved them and he was just more like, yep, I love you, that's great.

He was rooting for me always.

But a little harsh, but not crazy harsh.

Like, you know, nothing that crazy.

Gloria, your mother.

Yeah. Gloria's my mom, yeah.

Sadly, passed away.

I miss my mom. My mom's name is Gloria.

My sister's name is Gloria.

My dad's named Jim, and I'm named Jim.

A very unoriginal parent.

Couldn't come up with any other name.

Like, those are the perfect names for you.

But yeah, my mom was my...

She rooted for me. That was my number -one fan.

I was the golden child in her head, you know, like whatever I did, she was like, that's that's my kid, that's my, oh my God, you're fantastic, you gotta go, you're great, you know.

And she was always rooting me out whatever it is I did, she would laugh, you know, and I miss her not being around, you know, because I would talk to her every day, you know, sometimes multiple times a day, and, you know, talk about Saturday Night Live and she'd watch the show and see sketches and all that was fun.

I mean, I would, she was part of my life and I think part of what built my confidence.

Even as an adult? Yeah.

Completely. You talked to Miss Daly as an adult?

Yeah, I would call her and just go, what's going on?

You know, she loved to talk.

That was her, she was great at that.

She had one of those phones that had the phone cords that was so stretched out from walking all around the house and talking all day, that the phone cord probably was two miles long.

I mean, it was a pile of spaghetti on the floor.

It's so, I go, gosh.

You should get a cordless phone.

You won't even believe how your life changes.

You can go anywhere, mom.

But she loved to walk around and talk so she could talk all day long.

But then she would call me and say like, I saw you on TV.

I go, I know mom, I'm on that show.

She was like, you're on Ellen today!

I know mom, I was there.

That was me, I was on it.

You know? But she was my number one fan and loved bits that I would do and she was one of the most interesting people ever.

And like, you know, both of them together are kind of cartoon characters, you know?

And by the end, you know, they both kind of would couldn't really hear each other, you know?

It was a lot of like, what?

And my dad would go, huh?

I said, what? What?

And they'd just say what and huh until I interrupted, Stop!

Just stop talking, because let's just move on.

You can't hear each other.

This is insane. But I wish I could give you the best story of kind of what my mom was like.

I mean, I remember going home to the house where I grew up in Saugerties, New York, after I was on Saturday Night Live or maybe even during.

And I came home, and my mom's like, let's go out to dinner.

And I go, okay. I go, but I don't really need to.

I live in Manhattan.

Some of the best restaurants.

I come home because I went home cooked, You know, meals, you know.

But, it was, I go, sure, I go, but you don't make a big deal.

Don't embarrass me.

He's like, I'm not gonna embarrass you.

I'm not. I go, okay, let's go.

So we go into this restaurant and we sit in and we sit down and she goes, kind of getting the draft. And I go, no, no, no. We're not moving.

We're not making a big deal.

Remember, that's the deal.

We're just not making a scene.

We're having dinner.

Like you said, we're going to go, okay, fine.

So we're sitting there and she goes, let's order.

I go, you're right.

And she goes, I'll have this.

My dad's like, I'll have a steak.

And I go up. And she goes, I'll have the lamb chops or something.

I go, great. So we're waiting, and they come over with my dad and my meal, but they forget my mom's meal.

They go, you know, we didn't put in the lamb.

She's like, OK. So we can't really eat.

So she goes, thank you, as they leave, she goes, I'm not going to eat.

I go, well, you can't do that because you've got to make a scene.

You have to eat. Whatever, she goes, no, I'm fine, I don't care.

I go, please don't make a big deal.

She goes, I'm not making a big deal.

Where's my thing? I ordered it.

I'm okay. I go, don't make a big deal.

Finally they bring over this lamb thing after this whole thing.

I go great, just eat it.

She's like, so she's eating out of spite and she takes the first bite and she goes...

And I go, oh my God, she's not joking.

And she's pointing at her throat and I go, oh my God.

So my dad sticks his finger down my mom's throat and he's like, and she's making these noises.

And I go, oh, this is a nightmare.

And then some woman runs over and she goes, I'm a nurse, I'm a nurse.

And knocking over tables and knocking everything over and grabs my Mom and picks up my Mom and gives her the Heimlich. And my Mom is making a noise that I've never heard anyone ever, she was making, I've never heard my Mom make this.

She was going like, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho.

And then she pulled it and then a lamb ball flew out of my Mom's mouth and hit the wall.

And the whole restaurant is just looking at us.

and they sit down and she's crying.

She's alive. And my dad goes, all right, let's just finish dinner, and I go, finish dinner?

It's over. We're going home, we're buying a bottle of wine for that lady.

And we're getting out of here.

My dad was like, that lady should've Biden her own business.

I go, what? Maybe it was mom's time to go.

But it was, they were that weird and funny where there were like odd people, but always making jokes.

But that was so, and it was embarrassing.

But you know, I remember telling that story, you know, and she's at a party and she would love to hear it because that was just very her, and you know, she just did stuff like that where just like, ah, this can't be real.

A lot of that. Of both your parents, who are you trying to please the most do you think?

Who are you waiting for the well done from the most?

God, that's a great question.

And I would say probably my, my mom, I think she she I would like to make her laugh.

You know, because she had a great laugh.

They both did. But I think of both of them.

I think my mom would be the one because I was like she was a fan of mine.

So it's almost like going like, Do you like my new song?

Do you like the second record?

If you're a fan of the Beatles?

Do you like Sgt. Pepper?

Yeah, you know, in she like, like it, I like this, you know, better.

Because I could tell that she's a fan of mine.

She's like, oh, I like this new thing you're doing.

Or, I like the song you're doing.

I think that was great.

Because I could get feedback from someone I could tell was kind of studying what I was doing.

For me, being a comedian and being comedic is so, so, I say this with the most amount of respect.

But it's so, so strange.

Because it's such a big risk and it's such a unique career to pursue with very little promise of financial return or any real notoriety.

Like, when I spoke to Jimmy Carr and other comedians that I've interviewed, there's something a little bit...

Say it. Crazy. Crazy.

Mental, yeah. Crazy about it.

you know, I never, and I still, to this day, I don't care about money.

I never cared about money.

I never did anything for...

I don't... I just don't do it.

I never did it for money.

And I always just...

I worked because I liked working.

You know, I liked...

I worked since I was 13 because I enjoyed, I guess, getting a paycheck, but, you know, paying for things.

But I don't know what things I was paying for.

I was 13 years old.

But I liked the idea of going into work, working nine to five day and doing overtime.

And I looked forward to working wherever it was.

And maybe it was because I was trying to be my dad.

Cause he would go to work in the mornings and then I would see him at night when he came home.

But I remember just not caring about money.

And my mom, I would always put laundry in the laundry basket or whatever.

And my mom would do the laundry, she'd be like, , Jimmy I found $5 in your jeans.

And I go, okay, yeah, yeah.

She goes, thanks. She goes, next time I'm gonna keep it.

And I go, do it. I can care less.

What am I gonna do.

I take, she's like, you know, and my dad's like, you gotta start caring about money.

And I go, I don't. I don't, I don't think I ever will.

I just don't, it never was a thing for me.

I never cared about, oh I got the most. Or I got paid blah blah.

I just loved the experience of it all.

The experience of? Work.

Any work. Any work.

It led to comedy as well as when I did comedy shows.

When you worked at the improv in LA, there's a great comedy club in Los Angeles on Melrose Avenue, you would go up and I think the paycheck was $7 and 25 cents.

That's what you get paid total.

There's no way you could do that for the money because it's worthless.

What's $7 going to do for you?

But it was the getting on stage, the stage time, that was priceless.

And building an act, and trying to get a persona, and build a brand, and build a character, and work in your act that could lead to a bigger act.

Or a Saturday night gig.

A Saturday night gig paid maybe $20 a gig.

And that was kind of OK money.

And they would also feed you on a Saturday, which is great.

Because I had no food.

You know, I was just like living there going like, you know I make up to seven dollars.

I can buy some things, but I didn't really eat much. Saturday they would feed you, and I remember my first Saturday gig at the improv, I go in and it's a big deal.

And I'm brand new, probably out in LA maybe six months or something.

And I worked my way, you have to do any weeknight.

Any time they call you have to be up there.

And so I did that and I put my dues in for that and showed up and I did pretty well, I had to get a 10 minute act.

Saturday night gig, I got there and I see Jerry Seinfeld in the restaurant and I go, and I go out to the pay phone and I call my parents, 1 -800 -COLLECT.

Do you know what that is?

Yeah, at least just about.

Yeah, it's a way to make a collect call so that you don't pay for it.

If you have no money, so you would call 1 -800 -COLLECT and someone would have to pay for that.

My parents would pay for the phone call from LA.

And I call my mom from 1 -800 -COLLECT and she goes, hi, Jimmy.

I go, mom, Jerry Seinfeld is at the club, at the improv tonight.

She's like, oh my God, Jerry Seinfeld, oh my God, I can't believe it.

She's like, this is the peak of Seinfeld.

She goes, is he gonna go, do you stand up?

And I go, I don't think so, I don't know.

He's just eating at the restaurant.

And I know he's a fan of comedy and the owner, his name is Bud Friedman.

So, he was there with Bud.

So I go in and I'm getting ready to do my act, which is a lot of impressions.

And I'm waiting there, and who goes onstage but Jerry Seinfeld.

He just walks on stage.

They go, we have a surprise for you tonight.

And he gets a standing ovation before he even says anything, comes out, does his greatest hits, I mean crushing every joke.

The famous ones, the sock missing from the dryer.

The whole bit. He did everything.

Then says, good night.

Standing ovation. And he leaves, and the guy goes, okay, who's on next?

Mark. And this guy, Mark goes, and he goes, I'm not following that.

And he goes, how about you, and there's two other guys, they're like, Jarrell, or.

He goes, I'm not following that.

He's like, who's Jimmy Fallon?

And he goes, that's me.

He goes, yeah, you're up next, kid.

I go, oh my gosh, my first Saturday night, I had to follow the greatest comedian of all, I mean, he was the hottest comedian, might be one of the best comedians of all time.

Now, I mean, he's the greatest. I had to follow that, it was my first act.

I'm like... And so I went up and I had this doll and I would do these impressions about a troll doll and different impressions of celebrities that would be the host of the Like this one Wow you do research Unless you just carry that around Like that one so I would have this doll.

Oh my gosh, this is my act So I would have this and I'd go, hello I'm Jimmy Fallon and welcome to the auditions for Troll Productions Incorporated.

We're looking for a star or sponsor for our new line of Troll.

I would do a British accent, I don't know why.

I thought that was cool for me at the time.

Probably sounds terrible to you.

And I don't mean to be offensive.

I go we're looking for a star or celebrity to sponsor our new line of Troll dolls for our new line of commercials.

First up, John Travolta.

And then I go, she's like I swear to God, look at this hair, who does this hair?

Like this is so weird. Like what kind of doll is this, right?

I mean like, I can't even like play with this thing over here, you know?

You know, Sandy, you know.

It would do something like that.

And, but, this time I came out and I go, first up for the celebrities, Seinfeld.

And I go, okay people, okay, look at these dolls!

They don't have their arms and legs, don't move!

These aren't fun, he's got no pants on!

He's not even wearing pants, what kind of a doll is this?

And it worked. And I followed Jerry Seinfeld and I was like, And then I went on the list and I finished my act, and I pulled out a guitar, and I played guitar with the Troll doll, and that was my act for years.

My name's Jimmy Fallon and welcome to the auditions for Troll Productions Incorporated.

Remember, this is just for the fuzzy hair, we're lookin' for a jingle for our new line of Troll doll commercials.

First up, U2. ["The Truth and the Fear"] Were you a confident young man?

So if I zoom back to when you were 12, and you were the class clown in 1986, were you a confident man?

What was going on in your head?

I think I was pretty confident.

I wasn't cocky. I mean, I remember like my grandfather and my parents being like, hey, don't be too full of yourself.

They didn't like kids that were too full of themselves as cocky.

I was pretty, but I was confident.

In your eighth grade class, you were voted by your peers most likely to replace David Letterman on The Late Night Show.

And you were 13 years old at the time.

Is that crazy? Cause I ended up doing that.

That's so crazy. I ended up doing that.

I replaced David Letterman.

But you were aiming at that?

I wasn't. You were aiming at the SNL thing.

SNL Live was my aim.

I wanted to be a cast member on Saturday Night Live, Um, which I ended up doing, but then Saturday Night Live is what got me Late Night, you know, which is Letterman's show.

And then Late Night got me the Tonight Show.

— When you look back at how, at that age, you were aiming, you know, as a young man to be on SNL, which is exceedingly rare, but you also went on to, you know, replace David Letterman on the Late Night Show.

When you look back in hindsight and go, So if your child came to you and said, Dad, how does one aim at a goal and then accomplish it?

And how did you aim at such a goal?

And in hindsight, what were the factors that went into accomplishing that goal?

Are there like principles that you could transfer to somebody to make them accomplish such a goal?

Because, you know, one of your best friends, I think it was Frank Gentile recalled that you are, he says, I've never met anybody more focused on what their goal was in life.

I'm not a huge believer in manifestation, as people often describe it, but it does feel like you pulled that into existence somehow.

I remember just being, I don't know what it is, I wasn't that well read or anything like that, but I just knew that what I wanted to do, I think from around 12 or 13, and maybe it's because people said I was good at it or it was making people laugh, you know.

So I think when my peers and my friends said like, you should do this, like, I think you're gonna be famous one day, or I think you're gonna be a comedian.

You know, I think you start believing it, and you're like, oh, maybe I am good at this.

Like, I don't even remember watching late night or David Letterman around that time.

I knew Saturday Night Live, and I probably did watch Letterman, and Johnny Carson's The Tonight Show.

But I think, I started thinking, oh yeah, Saturday Night Live will be, that's what I want to do that's definitely the ultimate dream because that felt exciting and electric and show business but also cool and edgy and I was like if that would be my goal like how would I do that and I remember like secretly if I threw a coin in a fountain or if I made a wish on a birthday cake you know which I still do you know that's not my wish anymore but I remember I would blow out the candles, and I'd say, I want to be on Saturday Night Live every year, all of my birthdays, any wish that I could make.

That's what I wished, that I could be on Saturday Night Live.

And so maybe that pressure that I put on myself drove me to figure it out and see what were the right steps.

I think, you know, my big decision, you know, was going to stand up and doing impressions.

I knew the show could always use impressions and people doing impersonations of celebrities, you know?

And so I thought that was one way in.

And so I remember doing that, and then I remember reading that people that study at the Groundlings, which is an improv troupe, if they study there, some people come from the Groundlings to Central Life.

So I moved out to L .A.

and started taking classes at the Groundlings just in case that could help me.

I also knew that there was a management company named Brilstein Gray, that managed a lot of the people that were on Saturday Night Live.

And if I could get seen by Brilstein Gray, maybe they would put me in touch with, you know, the Adam Sandlers of the world or the, you know, people that, you know, they had everyone from, I think, Belushi on to, you know, they probably have people on the show now.

But I remember getting a call from a manager who used to work at Brilstein Gray, just left. Her name was Randy Siegel and she was great.

And she was my manager.

I moved out to LA with a manager and so I thought she would know how to guide me to Saturday Night Live.

What are your parents saying at this time?

Because if one's kid says I'm going to go out to LA to do comedy and improv and these kinds of things, your dad was a career man.

He was working at IBM, I believe?

Yes. He was working at IBM.

And he said to me, he said, look just guarantee me two years of college.

Just go to college for at least two years.

I think we made a deal where he said, if you go for four years, I'll pay for two years.

And you pay for two years.

I go okay. That was kind of a deal for us.

And so I remember going to college for three and a half years and on that half of that last semester, I got kind of an opportunity to go to L .A.

to meet with this manager, and I said...

I called my parents, and I said, I think I'm going to drop out and go to L .A.

and go for it and just try to take acting lessons and take class at the Groundlings and try to get an audition for Saturday Night Live.

And they were like, alright, well, really think about this.

You know, this is really what you did, and who is this person that you're going out to?

And I go, her name is Randy Segal, she's a manager.

And I had met her through a guy that I used to work for in Troy, New York.

I was a receptionist at a news weekly called Metroland.

I used to answer the phones, and I would also do the personal ads like Men Seeking Women and blah, blah, blah, I'd type those things out.

And I remember he moved to LA to be a music manager.

And so I gave him my tape on his way out, a video tape of me doing my troll act.

And I said, if you see anybody, he goes, I'm not doing comedy, I'm doing music.

I go, I know, but if you see anybody, maybe pass it along.

And so he passed it along to his manager.

So she talked to my parents and they got a phone call where she was like, I think Jimmy's got something, you know, he's green, but I think if he gets, you know, if he goes to work and puts in the work, I think that he'll get something you know, I think he'll be successful.

He's green. Amateur.

He's not ready yet.

You know, you're not ripe.

He's green. So if you're green, you're green banana.

Did you ever give up on yourself?

Or did you ever doubt yourself while you were out in LA?

Yeah. Definitely, a bunch of times.

It's tough when it's not working, and you want to tell everyone that it is working.

But it's hard. It's a lot of rejection.

And you end up, like, you're just trying so hard, and you go, I know what I want.

But it takes so much time to get there.

But in the meantime, you have to take auditions.

You have to. Because I was like, I didn't want to take acting lessons.

Because I read somewhere that James Dean would go to acting class and just watch and never do the acting lessons.

And I liked James Dean for some reason.

So, I would go, and I'd just sit in the back of it And watch everybody and finally the acting teacher came out to me.

He was like are you sure you want to do this because I mean You can get so much more out if you did this and started working with other actors I think you should because you're a stand -up comedian.

You don't perform with anyone you're by yourself on stage I think you should learn how to act with other actors, and I was like, yeah Maybe he's right like I'm I'm not James Dean so I started acting and then you realize oh gosh I'm really not good at this.

I've gotta learn how to do this.

It's a skill to play off of other people and to listen to other people.

So then I started doing the auditions because that's my manager would get me an audition for movies and stuff, and I think my first audition was to play a lifeguard in the Brady Bunch 2 movie or something.

And I had to say one line, like, get out of the pool, something like that.

And so I remember going, And my line was printed on fax paper.

They faxed it over.

And when fax machines were a thing.

And so I had, and they would tell you, bring in the paper when you do the audition, hold the lines so that they don't think that you're off book.

So they think that you have a chance of getting better.

I go, okay, great. So I'd hold the paper.

And I go, and action.

I go, get out of the pool.

Okay. You wanna just do it one more time?

I go, okay. And it's quiet and it's just so awkward. And I go, get out of the pool!

Or whatever it was.

And she goes, okay, buh bye.

I actually said buh bye.

And I was like, my face got red, I got so embarrassed and I got back to my apartment and my manager called me and I go, did you hear feedback?

She goes, yeah, you didn't get it.

They said, weirdly, they said you're too green.

And I go, okay. She goes, but we have to work on it.

Just keep doing it and keep doing auditions and working on these lines and you should get an acting coach and go bring the lines to the acting class and go, can you do Get Out of the Pool?

Whatever, better. So, it just got over and over again, you get rejected and you wouldn't get parts.

I got no parts, I probably auditioned for 30 shows and movies and stuff like that.

And you just kind of, it's tough.

It's really tough, say, of anyone going into the business or acting or any of that stuff, the entertainment stuff.

You're going to get beat up.

It's going to be to the point where you're like, I'm so depressed, I can't do it.

But just know that if you can just get through it and keep working, eventually, whatever it is that's going to happen in life will work out.

Maybe you won't even be an actor, but maybe you'll be a lighting director, maybe you'll work on sets, maybe it won't be acting.

but it will get you to where you're supposed to be if you just keep going and keep doing it.

I just kept telling myself that.

I ran out of money, and I was like, I'm going to have to go home to live with my parents and probably go back to college if they can let me back in.

And I think I even might have looked into it, but I was just so bummed out because that's not what I wanted at all.

I wanted to be on Saturday Night Live.

And, you know, it's just the reality was like, it almost didn't feel like of living in this world, because, like, people couldn't believe that they're like, that's not reality.

You can't just say, I'm gonna be on Saturday Live.

I remember going to my Groundlings class.

My first teacher was great.

His name is Jim Wise.

And he goes, what do you want to do?

And he would go around the horn.

And people are like, I want to be in movies.

I want to be in a TV show.

I want to be in a sitcom.

And I said, I want to be on Saturday Live.

I'd be like, whoa. That's very specific.

That's like, yeah, that's one in a zillion.

That's what I want.

And he brought that up to me, he brings it up to everybody, and he was like, I'll never forget that.

You said that that's what you wanted to do.

And that was my ultimate, ultimate.

I said, if I do nothing else in life, that's all I wanted to do.

And, like, even if I got on for one season or one episode, then I could do whatever I could.

I didn't care what I did after that.

What was the fixation with Saturday Night Live?

I think my parents loved it and their friends loved it but that was what they would watch and that was the pinnacle of comedy.

That was the best comedy show in America And so that was the best. So it's like playing for the greatest team.

You know, playing for the Yankees or whatever.

I don't know, soccer, but Arsenal?

I have no idea. Manchester United.

Manchester United, yeah.

You couldn't help yourself.

Oh, my gosh. But yes, playing for that.

You want to play, play for the best. If you can make it there, that's the best team.

Then you could do whatever for that if you played for Man U.

It's slightly different with you because a lot of upcoming football players would be happy to play for any Premier League team.

Man United is, of course, great, but they would aim for any Premier League team where you seem to be religiously intent on it being Saturday Night Live.

Yeah, it had to be that, because I think that's what we would watch, we would talk about.

As a family? Kind of a family, yeah.

As a family, they would tape it, we were one of the first families to have a VCR, which is anyone young listening to this podcast, a video cassette recorder.

So it would tape, it's like a DVR, digital video recording.

So it's a video cassette, And you would tape it on these giant tapes, and they would record two hours, you know, on television.

And so we would tape the show, and then you could rewatch it.

And then I would rewatch it and study it and watch the sketches over and over again and watch repeats and watch The Greats and watch Belushi and Dan Aykroyd and people I want Bill Murray and Steve Martin, people I wanted to be like.

As I got into high school, I was taping it, watching the best sketches, and I would go to my friend's party and show the best sketch that week And you go, oh, this is the best sketch. It's Chris Farley.

And it's blah, blah, blah.

I would be obsessed that way.

I almost became so obsessed in high school that I couldn't really hang out with anyone while I watched the show.

Because I didn't like it if anyone didn't like the show.

And my parents used to let me drink, if I stayed home.

So if I didn't go out, they would buy me a six pack of beer that I could drink at probably, you know, 16 or something, or something like that.

Not the smartest thing, but I would hang out with my friends and they would say, yeah, they're gonna have a couple beers and, you know, so I would watch Siren Live with a six -pack and watch it and study it.

And I ended up just stop watching it with anyone else.

You know, I guess I still drank.

That's sad to say, I drank by myself, but I became an alcoholic at 16.

but it was the thing that I would do and I would just study it and I would, every Saturday night, and continuing into college, my friends would have parties and they go, you gotta come Ray.

I go, I'll be there at one o 'clock.

They go you, no the party's, you gotta come.

I go, Saturday night, I can't go.

And they go, just tape it.

I go, I can't just tape it, I have to watch it live.

Obsessed, yeah, I was beyond obsessed.

Obsessed. Without a doubt.

That was it. That was the pinnacle.

Even I went on an NBC tour with my dad, like a bus trip to New York City, and took me on a tour of NBC to see Saturday Night Live.

And, you know, as I was older, I was just so nervous to go in the building.

And, oh, my gosh, this is the building.

This is what it looks like.

And this is the doorway and the revolving door.

I know all this. I know everything.

I know what the walls look like.

I know what the ceiling is painted like.

I knew art deco decorating.

I knew everything. I geeked out and I was like, this is the best day.

Just going on tour there.

Now I have worked there for 20 something years.

You know, it's my home.

I've been working in that building since 1998.

I don't even think about it anymore.

That's the door I go into work.

Every now and then I'll walk, you know, I walk to work almost every day, but I'll get that feeling again.

And I'm like, oh yeah, don't lose that.

This word obsession, it seems to be, earlier when I said the principles of, the characteristics that got you to where you are today.

But clearly obsession is one of them.

I mean, you're obsessed to an extent that I didn't actually realize with becoming a host on Saturday Night Live.

And obsession is a powerful force, isn't it, because it means that one can bang their head against an immovable object over and over again until the immovable object moves out its way.

And that's kind of what you found yourself doing in L .A.

You're sat there, you're going to these auditions, you're getting rejected.

What was your mental health like in that period when you were in L .A.?

Because you're dealing with constant rejection, you're running out of money, you're contending with having to go home.

It wasn't the greatest. And I'm a pretty positive guy in general.

But I think that was probably my lowest looking back.

I mean I remember like, you know, Trying to see what therapy was, or if I could afford a therapist, or what that meant, or.

Why? Because I was just breaking down mentally, of like what have I, what have I done?

Like what have I done?

I have kind of made these decisions.

And I wasn't getting anywhere.

And it was like, I mean I had really kind of no friends and no social life.

just obsessed with work and obsessed with stand -up and trying to make my act better and trying to see if I can get on Saturday Night Live and having no money and just going like, what is this all about?

You know, I don't know if I can afford to keep failing.

You know, I can't live in an apartment if you don't make money, you know?

I can't afford gas to get to the audition.

You can't eat. It's like, you just go, oh, yeah.

I just got to keep doing gigs, but I'm running out of space.

So maybe if I go home, I can go back to doing these little clubs and make some money, save up money, and then go back out and try again in LA.

I remember they became a moment where I'm like, oof, I think I wrote a letter to my best friend like I'm losing it, dude.

And in fact, I know I did because he still has the letter.

And he works for our show now.

And he says, I have it, and I'll publish it one day.

I'll give it to people if I need the money.

I'll release your letter of you emotionally broken.

I go, you know, but that's what best friends do.

They hold it over your head.

And she goes, sick dude.

Yeah, exactly. I'll sell it on Ebay.

And I go, gosh. I mean, you know, it's one of those embarrassing things.

Well, I probably wished I didn't write that, but.

What did it say? I have, don't even ask, but I think it was somethin' to the point like I'm losing it and I don't know if I can make it.

And I don't know what else to do with my life.

And, you know, something to that or a factor, you know, I miss college.

I miss you. I miss having friends.

I miss going out. I miss, you know, I think it was that.

It was like maybe regretting my decision to move to L .A.

Was there anything that this Jimmy might go back to that Jimmy and say to him at that time, if you could to some message that maybe he needed to hear that he wasn't hearing, maybe advice or ...

Yeah, I mean, of course the advice would be like, it's gonna be okay, you know.

I think probably the best way to go back and be like, hey, I'm proud of you, dude.

Like, you're doing exactly what you have to do.

You're doing what you have to do to become me.

So I'm so proud of you.

So keep it up. You know?

You know, I mean, I would all the things that, like, I remember, just in L .A., I remember, like, finding cardboard boxes that were thrown out in this garage next to me and bringing that in.

Not dirty or anything, but new boxes.

And I would put sheets over it and they would become tables.

So I would use that as kind of an end table next to my bed.

and stuff like that and you go, oh yeah, it's creative.

You could look at it so sad to talk about now and go, oh my god, you're by yourself and you had cardboard boxes, there's tables.

I didn't think about that, I was just trying to be, that would look nice if it had a sheet over it and that looked kind of cool, it was very kind of dormy.

But I think about, I don't know why, I think about it now.

So maybe, having cardboard furniture was depressing.

but you know I think that's where you have to dig and see if you can find the funny in it and go like whoof, if you can perform now then get ready when if you step in the ring you're an animal.

Why I'm proud of you.

You didn't quit. You're really like against all odds.

You're doing something that no one in the family has done, that none of your friends have done.

You really don't know where this is gonna end, and you're kind of adventuring into an odd place.

You're discovering all new stuff that's never been done, and it's great to do this because one day you'll get tested in a different way, and you'll be mentally stronger.

And so I'm proud of you because this is all tough now, but it will pay off when when you need to show your strengths, or, you know, it's almost like you're going to the gym, you know, it will pay off one day like I don't want to do it.

I don't want to run.

I don't want to lift. I don't want to do anything.

I don't want to eat.

You go, I know. But the future me is telling you, this is great that you're doing this because you're going to have it.

It's just going to be when you need it.

You'll be strong enough.

And so I think I was becoming stronger as I was building it.

And I look back and I wouldn't change anything, you know?

If anything, I would say I wanted to happen faster, but not really.

I think you have to live through all the stuff and go, oh yeah, I remember that.

That was cringy. That was rough.

Oh, I remember that.

That was bad. But that was a good one.

And then you go, oh yeah, that was another great one.

And then, oh yeah. And then you start thinking of all these stuff that you thought was depressing then.

It's kind of charming now.

And you go, kind of, I love those days.

And I love the days where you bombed and that was the biggest problem.

The biggest problem in your life was that you didn't do a great impression of Jerry Seinfeld.

Like that was the biggest problem in your life?

OK. Then I think your life was pretty good.

Like dude, you look back, you go, That meant so much to me though.

And I think about that now with my daughters.

They tell me stuff is going on at school and stuff, and to me, I'm like, you won't even see these kids.

This will mean nothing to you.

These kids, maybe you'll be friends with them for life.

I hope, that'd be great, but I don't think so.

I don't remember anyone.

I don't talk to anyone from my grade school, but it's the biggest thing in their life now.

So you can say that, because it's like, dad, this is my life, what you talking about?

This is the biggest thing.

Like, high school is so slow when you're in high school.

Right now, four years is a joke.

Four years is like a joke to me.

I go, oh my god. I can't do anything for four years.

When you're in it, it's long.

Four years feels like 25 years.

Could you have imagined a reality where you didn't end up getting onto SNL at some point?

So if we were sat here now, you're 50 years old, and you're sat here, and you'd never done it.

I would have done it.

But so this is what I'm getting at is I Would have found a way and done it and even just walked on or something.

I would have found a way to get on it.

I Would have found some way to either be an extra or walk in the background or do something or I would have There's no way There's no way I have to but you're saying if I didn't what would happen or you're saying I don't think it would ever happen I had to be on it.

I was gonna make it out and I had to do it, you know?

I don't think there was an option, I don't think there, I would've done it.

I don't think there's ever an option I would never have been on that show.

I asked the question because there are areas of my life where I sometimes reflect and go, I always thought that that was going to happen and the consideration that that might not have happened makes, it's almost like this like, then life wouldn't have been real.

Like then, everything I believed would have been a lie.

There's small things in my life there when you look at me as a young man, and I'm filming myself Pretending that a TV show have asked me to do something that ended up happening 10 years ago And I get it was that was always how in my brain I did that too.

Yeah, but I mean, I think a lot of Performers have done this where you interview yourself when you pretend you're on a radio show And you're like here I am I'm counting down the top 10 songs and here's the vote and I have cassettes of me doing that You know, I think a lot of people do that.

When I asked you the question about SNL, you were so convinced that that's always the way that it was going to go.

And I'm like, that's why I'm trying to, I wanted to see your reaction when I make you consider that it didn't go that way.

I can't see it not happening.

It was going to happen.

I don't know. I don't know if I can tell you honestly that I could imagine another path.

I don't even know if I could fake it.

because I would be lying.

I know I would be on Saturday Night Live.

I have to. I just, that was, I can't even.

I can't lie and say, well, I guess I could have done it.

I just know. So how did you go from that kid who's writing the letter to his friend saying that he's considering giving up, and seeking out therapy and those kinds of things.

How did you get from that moment to that first Saturday Night Live audition?

I think you get little things, little good things happen to you.

You're gonna use the word luck, right?

It sounded like you paused on the word luck though.

I could use luck, but I'm just gonna say good things.

I mean, it probably is luck.

I feel like I'm a lucky person, but I think they're just like, Like, I think I got a holding deal at Warner Brothers Television to do, like, to act for a sitcom or something, even though I didn't want a sitcom.

I remember putting in the contract that if I get Saturday Night Live while I'm doing the sitcom, that I can contractually get out.

And they said, no, you can't.

I go, well, that's the only reason I have to get this in.

this clause in my contract and they said no one's ever asked for that but um okay so they put it in my contract so if i was on this show the show didn't get picked up but if the show got picked up and i got a chance to audition for sound live i could leave the show contractually because they were like it's just no it's not going to happen but so i ended up acting and getting a little money, which is great because it's actually, I can stay at my apartment and actually still work on my goal of Saturday Night Live, you know, while not doing, I didn't want to act in sitcoms. But that helped me take

a breath and be like, okay, I got a couple more months of opportunity.

And eventually you get a phone call?

Yes. My manager sent tapes and tapes and tapes to Saturday Night Live saying can, you know, this is he really wants it, blah, blah, blah.

And so I got an audition for Saturday Night Live.

This is my first of two auditions.

My first one, I went to do stand up my troll bit on stage at the comic strip here in New York.

And I remember going in and having my one outfit that I owned that I thought was the best and you know some shirt from the gap or something in Nike sneakers that I'm like it was such a big deal I only wore them on special occasions and this was it and I went on stage with my troll doll and I saw Lauren was in the audience he had his hat on and he's the founder yes yes his creative Sarah 11 and now the late night end the Tonight Show and I remembered going on stage as soon as I did my first impression I knew it just It just didn't work if I didn't have the audience.

It was cut down from a 10 -minute act to I think three minutes and I had to catch the audience, hook them in three minutes, and leave. And I started the first 20 seconds.

I could tell this is bad.

And it was sweaty, it was a bad audition and I left and I go, oof.

We went to a diner next door to the club with my manager and I had coffee and it was very depressing, like, wow, that was it.

That's why I just for Saturday Night Live, Lorne Michaels, who's the creator of the show, was there.

That was my big opportunity and I blew it.

You know what, so let me figure it out.

Went back to LA, they said you didn't get it.

How did that feel? For some reason at that point, I don't remember, I was a bit numb, I think, then, and I think I was on, I was starting to work on my act and really getting into stand -up and I just kind of kept thinking in my head, I have to get another shot, another chance at auditioning or showing them what I could really do because that was just not the best that I could do.

But it wasn't too long after that where I got another phone call from Sarah.

How old were you when you got that second call?

23. So I heard you'd said that if you didn't make it on SNL before the age of 25, you were gonna - I was gonna kill myself.

Were you actually? Yeah, I wrote that in something, in some journal or something.

You wrote what? If I don't get on Saturday Night Live by the age of 25, I'll kill myself.

Did you mean that? Yeah, I did.

But again, I knew that I was going to be on Saturday Live.

So I guess I didn't really mean it.

Because I was going to be on Saturday Live before I was 25.

So crazy. I knew that I was going to be on it.

So I wasn't really a threat.

So funny. Do you know what's funny?

Actually, it's in my book behind there.

There's a screenshot of my diary.

And in the front page of my diary, it says before I'm 25, and it has my goal written in the front of my diary, and I've published it in my book, which is on the shelf somewhere.

Isn't that funny, that I have the same thing where I'm like, before I'm 25 years old, I will have to do this.

Yes. Yeah, and it's, and it happened, thankfully.

But did you think in your, when you were typing?

I didn't say I was gonna kill myself, but.

Yeah, I don't know, I think I typed it out, But again, I was into computers, I think I typed it.

I think it's on some file somewhere.

I think I said it would kill myself.

But I definitely said, you know, yeah, 25 was my thing.

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And you get this second call for the second audition around 23 or 24 years old.

Yeah, so then I said do you want me to do the troll doll and they go no we'd rather you not do the troll dolls because we've seen that already.

Was that the end of the troll doll?

Well, that was my whole act.

I don't have any. I don't have much more.

That's all I did was the troll doll act.

So I'm like, what do I do?

So I just kind of did the troll doll act under a guise of a different thing where it's like celebrity charity, you know?

So, you know, I think it was a..

How are you doing? Here we go, uh.

Oh, my God. You know, my mom always told me to.

I guess a lot of, how are you doing?

They got some exercise and so on.

She used to say all the time, she'd say, why don't you go to the store with your mother?

And I... Skinny kid.

And I would say, I'd say, why don't you shut up?

That was the big, that was my big moment.

That was the biggest moment for me.

That was, that's crazy.

That was the moment in the audition, too, that changed everything because I was doing a bunch of impressions.

Then before I did that, I'm so nervous.

But now I'm on the actual stage, and you're there, and a producer comes over, says, Jimmy Fallon, you go, yeah, come with us.

They go, just let you know, Lorne Michaels doesn't laugh, so don't let that throw you if you're doing your act, they go, great, thank you.

And then, they go, now go get a hair and makeup.

I go, wow, how cool, hair and makeup.

I go get hair and makeup, they're doing my hair, they're putting makeup on me because they're broadcasting my audition to California so that the heads of NBC can see.

And the guy and girl doing my hair and makeup go, Just so you know, Lauren doesn't really laugh in these auditions, so don't let that throw you.

I go, okay, yeah, so I heard, thank you.

I go get your microphone on.

So they're putting a microphone on me and a mic pack, and the audio guy goes, just a little advice, Lauren doesn't really laugh.

So if you do your thing, I go, what is this guy's problem?

Why isn't he laughing, he's in the wrong business.

I mean, he's in a comedy show.

And so as I was doing that audition, I did an impression of Adam Sandler, which was what you just played.

And I remember at the time it was kind of new because Adam just left Saturday Live and no one was really doing Adam Sandler.

And I was doing, you know, like, hey yeah, ooh yeah yeah, heh yeah, ooh yeah yeah, whatever.

And I remember Lauren started laughing.

And I go, that's cool, that's a cool story.

Even if I don't get Saturday Live, but I just knew that he started laughing, he put his head in his hand and was laughing.

And I go, that's a good story, I'll tell my kids.

I made Laura Michaels laugh on Saturday Live, on the set of Saturday Live.

I wasn't really on the show, but I was on the set.

And I remember doing that and feeling good about the audition.

Like, I left that going.

That went as good as it could go.

You know? That was the best I could give them.

That was it. And I remember one of the producers, Marsha Klein, came up to me and said, She goes, and Jimmy it was fantastic.

You got to feel good.

And I was like, and I just felt like, okay.

If they're saying it and I get that, I feel good.

Then you didn't hear, I didn't hear back for a couple of weeks or whatever.

It's like, it's crazy how long you wait.

Cause you, and they go, look, we liked Jimmy.

We saw him at the comic club and we were looking for a different direction.

You know, for that audition, I think they hired Tracy Morgan.

So they were going in a different direction, the first audition, but this one, they called it, You know, Lorne wants to meet you and talk to you.

He's going to be out in LA.

And he had an office on the Paramount lot.

And so I drove into the Paramount lot.

I gave my name to the front gate.

It's a great, it's a great studio.

It feels like you're in the business.

I don't know if you've ever been to the Paramount lot but the giant gates and it's a movie set and the gates open and you go to a parking spot and there's actors walking around and it just feels like you're in the business.

And it's nerve -wracking.

and I went into Lauren's office.

He had like a, you know, some office on the lot, and I remember going into his office and everything was white, and it kind of felt heavenly almost and you're just like...

And I sat across the desk from him and he goes, Jimmy, do you wear wigs?

And I was like, oh, no, I just do this to my hair.

I just spike it up.

He's like, no, no, no, I'm saying like for characters and stuff like that, do you?

Have you done characters where you wear wigs and stuff?

He goes, no, I - because we want you for the show.

And I just think, you know, with more practice and if you try to do different peop - and as soon as you - whatever he was saying, I couldn't hear what - the rest was slow motion.

I was like, oh my gosh, he just said, I got Saturday Night Live.

I did it. I got Saturday Night Live.

It's happening. I couldn't believe it.

And I go, okay. And I shook his hand.

And I go, I hope I make you proud.

And I left, and I think I pulled over to the first pay phone I could get to and call my mom, and I'm like, I just got started live.

I was like, wah! You know?

You know? You know, it was just crazy.

The whole thing's crazy.

I'm coming back to New York because I'm gonna be on the show that I tried to be on my whole life.

I did it. It's happening.

And I was like, and here we go.

And it was like, wow.

And I said goodbye to LA and my roommates and everyone's just so happy for me.

And then I went to New York and got an apartment in Midtown and it was the greatest thing.

And I took Silent Live and went from there and did a couple of movies.

I met my wife. It's the best thing that ever happened to me.

And then I didn't work for a while after the movies, and then Lorne asked me to host Late Night and replace Conan O 'Brien.

I did. I worked hard at that, and then I got asked to replace J.

Leno on The Tonight Show, and I did that, and here I am.

I'm hosted The Tonight Show in crazy life and crazy opportunities, and it's just so interesting and fun.

There was a motion in your face where you talked about getting SNL and calling your mum.

It's so interesting that it's decades ago.

Yeah, you know, again like, it's the end of Rocky, you know, it's the thing, it's like I did it.

It's like, yes. You know, you did it.

That's insane. You gotta be kidding me.

You did it, what we all said you were gonna do, but you went and actually, it's crazy.

It's not many people do this.

And I was like, yeah.

And to talk to your mom, who's your biggest fan, and always believed in you.

You know, that's emotional and it's like, whew, it's just, this is, how can this be?

It's just, I don't know.

It was just done, it's just the whole thing's kind of crazy.

It's amazing. It's a anti -climax.

No. Because if you aim at that one goal and put it on a pedestal for that long in your life.

No, it paid off. It was, everything was what I dreamt. It was crazy.

Everything. The announcer, Jimmy Fallon, him saying my name.

I was like, dreamt of it.

He was really saying it.

I could watch him. I enjoyed every second of it.

Every bit. The internet was happening at the time.

And then people started sending me fan letters and then webpages, and it was just like, you started getting famous.

And here's the New York City street.

I walked on, not too long ago, being kind of afraid and intimidated.

Now I'm walking and people are going, Jimmy, you know, and it's cool.

And you go, yeah. What weren't you prepared for?

Getting rejection. You know, getting your sketches cut, being told you're not funny.

You know, haters. This is before Twitter and all that stuff which is a different ballgame that I wasn't ready for either.

But you think that it's just gonna be like, No, this is cool, everyone would be great.

But then, just people not, everyone's rooting for you.

Some people want you to fail.

People's jobs are to take me down, you know, and to put bad press out and stuff, it's just, that's their job and you're just like, ooh, I didn't think it was, I don't live in that world.

I don't believe that it's real, but it kind of is real.

And you go, oh, people are just gonna be mean.

and you gotta, again, just toughen up and get through it and just keep your head down and keep being funny and just keep doing things and keep being creative and just if you move that out you realize it's not even real.

It's real, but it's noise and it's just it doesn't affect you.

You can only believe in yourself and know that you have to keep going and if you keep scoring that will show.

Your work will show.

That's stuff I wasn't prepared for of dealing with the overcoming that, you know.

Overcoming that. Yeah, overcoming like hating on you or saying you're not good or something.

It's like you don't think that's gonna happen.

But it will if you're successful because someone will be like, you know, someone's not gonna like you no matter what.

There's someone who's always trying to please.

Is that the antithesis of pleasing for for one's brain who is orientated towards making people happy the worst Yes, it is the absolute worst you I hate it.

I want everyone to like me I Can't stand it.

I go. Oh my gosh. What can I do to make you like me I?

Think the answer is you can't You can't make everyone like you you just have to do what you do and do the best that you can at what you do and be happy with yourself.

I mean like what's the alternative?

The alternative is you quit, you change.

Yeah you quit or you change you to be, I guess what the person who hates you likes.

Someone else will just hate that.

The original people will hate that that you changed and you go oh yeah.

And then you'll hurt yourself.

Yeah. I mean there's I love music, but I remember like I love the Beastie Boys growing up.

And there's that one line Mike Deas says, be true to yourself and you will never fall.

And it's like, kind of is the move.

Just be true to yourself.

Everyone could say whatever they want.

That's who I am. How did you cope with that stardom, being thrust into public spotlight?

You're getting feedback from everywhere.

You're getting the good, the bad, the ugly.

You're someone that wants to please.

Do you, did you seek any professional help?

Did you get any support?

No. No, I just kind of lived through it and go like, yeah, I think I'll, I'll figure it out.

You know, I think fame was fun, you know, it's it's cooler.

It's cooler than cool.

It's like, wow, this is what I thought it would be.

But it's also, at the end of the day, it's the work and the stuff that you do and the stuff that comes out of it where I'm most proud of where I'm like, Oh, I get to do this, I think this bit could be fun.

Like I remember we had Mick Jagger on the show and Lorne said, Mick, we'll do a sketch if anyone has an idea.

And they go, I can do an idea where I'm the reflection of Mick Jagger in the mirror.

And I'm like, yeah, well, what doing a shot at that one?

And Lauren goes, please don't do that.

Absolutely please, please don't do that.

He goes, it's been done.

Marx Brothers have done it.

Lucille Ball, it's been done, please don't do that.

I go, okay. He goes, but go pitch Mick ideas.

I go, I don't want to pitch him ideas.

You're the producer.

I'm nervous. I don't even know Mick Jagger.

He's like, just go in and pitch me ideas.

So I wrote out like 10 ideas.

I'm like, hey Mick, he's very nice.

And I go, you know, I was thinking maybe me and you, And he's like, you play Keith and I'm you and you know, we work at a sunglass hut or something like that.

He's like, I don't really like that, I don't really like that.

And I go, huh, well then I have this other idea where you and I work in an ice cream shop, but we're, blah, blah.

And he's like, nah, nah, don't really like that.

I don't wanna do that.

And I go, all right, and I'm going down the list and the ideas are getting worse and worse.

And I'm just like, oh my gosh.

And then I had a desperation, I go, or we could do something where you come in your dressing room and I'm your reflection in the mirror and you're like, why am I doing this shot?

I've done it since I'm 18 and done that.

And why am I doing that?

Why am I doing that?

And he goes, oh, I like that.

So I go back to Lauren's office.

I go, good news, bad news.

Good news, Nake wants to do a sketch. Bad news is it's the mirror sketch. And so Lauren's like, okay, we'll do it.

And we wrote it in a night, which had never been done.

I don't think when I was on the show we wrote it on a Thursday night.

Rehearsed it once on Friday and did the show on Saturday.

And it worked. It really worked.

It might be one of the best sketches I was ever in.

And Mick was so happy, that he was so giddy and he kinda shook my hand through the mirror.

Which is funny cause I'm supposed to be his reflection.

And it was just kind of cool.

and I remember one of those things where I'm like, the room was shaking.

And I go, that's cool.

Like, dude, that's beyond what I dreamt I could do.

You know, being outside alive is one dream, but now you're doing a sketch going to your rock idols.

You know? And scoring, and it's great, it's really funny, and everyone's having a good time.

Like, you really think, but that's something, and it wasn't meant to be, it wasn't written, it all just kind of happened last minute and, you know, but those little moments all kind of add up and you go, oh my gosh, this is so crazy that this is all happening.

How was that, I was looking before you arrived at all the people you've interviewed, going back more than a decade, and it's just everybody.

It's like, Floyd Mayweather to, you insert the name of the person who's at the top of an industry.

You've sat with them, they've been on your show.

I was thinking like, how has that altered your perception of not just what fame is, but what life is about, because you've met the best of the best, the top of the top, the richest of the rich, the most famous of the famous.

I'm interested in people, whoever it may be, whether it's Bruce Springsteen or Angelina Jolie or something.

You're talking to them.

Talk to me about this thing or what.

I don't know. Also with my show, I've got to jump right in.

I have probably 10 minutes.

Interview, you know, which is you got to get in there fast and you go like I gotta make them comfortable And know that I'm not gonna Make them look bad I just want to talk to them and go like Hey, blah blah blah or I'll make a thing or I'll just say some joke or I don't know what I'll do and Really and then they'll be themselves and then you go now it's flowing and you go Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then you can get into the movie talk and you know, you know and sell the product or whatever you know which is whatever, but it's that first kind of five to seven minutes where you get in there and then

you start playing with them and you start like if you can get a laugh out of Floyd Mayweather or something it's cool How do you make them feel comfortable?

Is this you must have something that you have learned about what it is that makes someone feel comfortable?

I don't know I don't have an exact recipe I will tell you that I go in before the show to their dressing room and say hello before the show.

Just to say hi, how's it going.

And I'll just talk to them, sometimes I talk to them longer than the interview.

Cause we'll get talking about something or life or some bit or, you know, their parents or something, you know, just get into real life talk.

And then by the time they come out, they feel like we've already talked, so it's less pressure.

I think also after 16 years of talking to, I've seen everyone at their highest. I've seen everyone at their lowest, I've seen people date people they shouldn't date.

I've seen people get married and have babies.

And just really fun to watch, and it's fun to go back and now, even if I see these people once a year, twice a year, I feel like I know them a little bit and you're like, oh yeah, Floyd good to see you, what's up?

Or Mick, you know, how's it going?

How's your kids? You know, we can just talk.

And we're caught up, and you go like oh yeah.

and it kind of feels like, maybe it doesn't to them, but to me it feels like it just saw them yesterday in that we're, you know, even though it's probably I haven't seen them in a year, it feels like I just saw you, you go, I am.

How do you stop it from getting old?

And I say this because I am, obviously, I've been doing this podcast now really for about four years, that's really, that I consider the starting point when we started on YouTube.

And I wonder what I've got to do to make sure that I never get bored of doing this?

I don't think he ever will, there's just so many interesting people.

There's so many people in this world.

And it doesn't end, I mean, four years, I'm trying to think of where that was.

That was round at the end of Late Night for me.

I mean, you're doing all the things, you're just expanding.

I mean, but you're working hard. I mean, you're trying.

I think, just keep trying.

and if you stop trying, you get boring tomorrow, but here you are in New York with 10 cameras, and you're not in London, you're not in your kitchen.

This is fake. This is fake.

This wall's not real.

This is not, there's a light here, this is all fake.

This is all a fake thing.

This is how you don't make it old, you don't, you have to work, and this is all, nothing here is real.

This is all a studio, but that's how you make it not get old.

Yeah, but this is, I think how you make it exciting is you gotta put the work in.

Don't get tired. You gotta show up and you always gotta show up.

You gotta be there.

And you gotta be there for your audience and you do that.

You show up, you do all the stuff.

I mean you have to and that's, like you said, it's kind of a seven days a week thing but it's every day you go, what can I do?

What can I do? What can I do?

it just becomes part of your life.

It's brushing your teeth.

It's like, oh, yeah, I guess brushing your teeth.

Someone at one point told me I had to do that.

But now I do it every day.

So I don't think about it.

I brush them three times, just four times a day now.

I'm like, no. How do you keep yourself challenged?

Is there something that you're doing to push yourself, because we expand around the world.

We go to different places.

We have increasingly more interesting, different guests and challenge ourselves in that way.

But when I looked at your show, I You started with the biggest in the world.

And you started in the biggest city in the world.

Start putting more pressure on yourself for any little challenges or trying something.

And then you go, like, I've always wanted to put out a Christmas album, you know, and just come out and write original songs, you know?

Trying to write songs is hard enough.

Trying to write 20 original Christmas songs, it's insane.

And what hasn't been said?

I have an idea for a kid's book that I think would be funny, you know?

Yeah, dada was the first one that was a big deal.

It's really the same word on every page.

It's just getting your kid to say dada.

So I thought that no one's done this.

So I go, basically if you get to the end of the book, it's you saying the word dada so many times that I think your baby has to eventually just go dada.

So it'll work. But then you released mama.

I had to because my wife and all my female fans were like, Really, you have two daughters and you're not gonna write, Mama, because this is the real truth.

Everything is Mama.

So that's kind of the same book, except I changed it to, you want the kids to say Dada and they just keep saying Mama.

I have a, I found some wonderful photos of your childhood, which I adored, like all of these photos.

You probably recognize quite a few of them.

Did I post these? Where would you find these?

I went through your house Oh my god, this is my Catholic teacher, They're a kindergarten teacher, that's Mrs. Fulling, that's Frank Gientheale, we talked about earlier, and my friend Steve Teabout.

These are my dorm room friends.

I would just stand up with Frank and Steve was kind of the artist in the group.

Is that Gloria underneath?

This is, yeah, Gloria.

Yeah, that's my mom.

That's my mom in our kitchen where we spent many a time.

we partied many times in that kitchen.

In November 2017, when she passed away, you said, as a tribute on The Tonight Show, which I watched, the best audience, you were referring to your mother that she was the best audience, she was the one I was always trying to make laugh.

Mum, I'll never stop trying to make you laugh and I heard you talk about squeezing her hand three times when you were younger and her squeezing your back.

In a fraction of, like, public attention I've experienced, one of the things that acts as an insulator to all of that for me is knowing that I have a home to return to.

And home for me isn't a place, it's people.

You know? And that's the thing that makes all of the noise feel fake and like it's not real.

And that there is something real.

And so when I was thinking about all of that and you losing her and her being the audience, her being home for you, I have to understand, like, how that changed you?" —Yeah, it's the toughest thing that I had to go through.

I think, see, you know that it's going to come eventually, but it's just, it was just so sad because it just, she was so much joy in my life.

And I just miss her, you know.

But you don't stop thinking about the people.

And you think about all these things and you look at all these other photos and you go, yeah, she probably gave me the microphone.

My mom was probably here, giving me the microphone.

And when you think about people dying, especially when it happens for the first week, you go, I'm going to forget about them and I can't.

And you go, oh, it's so sad.

And then, the truth is, it's just you don't.

You don't forget about them, ever.

They will never, they're in your life.

You think about them, in the weirdest moments.

And you'll hear a song and I'll hear like, Duran Duran or something.

I don't even know if my mom liked Duran Duran but, something reminds me of, me and my mom listening, and I'll think of my mom.

I go, oh my God, I can't believe I'm listening And I'm hungry like the wolf for Rio and I'm thinking about my mom and getting sad, but you do, you have those moments when it's like, but it's more happier at moments and you don't get that emotional.

If I want to I can just start crying because I just miss her, I think of the best times and I think I wouldn't be who I am without her.

You know. When you say that you miss her, you've said that a few times, what precisely is it that you miss?

She had a great sense of humor, and she was always, you know, and I think there's so many things.

Talking about, probably talking about myself a lot.

I'd be like, did you see the thing I did?

Or I want her to bring it up.

That thing you did was great, and then it makes you feel good, so I kind of just the positive reinforcement, the feedback, positive feedback of something that I did that I kind of miss.

And her complaining about something or talking about something she doesn't like, I feel like that would kind of give me material.

And I miss calling on my birthdays and she's so much love, she just loved me so much. I do worry about this because I think sometimes we don't realize the importance of certain relationships until we lose them and my parents are getting older.

And I think I have some kind of like subconscious existential fear that there will be words unsaid or I will learn the hard way that there's things I should have said, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. You kind of, yeah.

I think I said everything.

It sounds like you spoke to her a lot.

I did. I said everything.

She knew that I loved her and you know, it just, it kind of happened fast, which I kind of hope, I think that was a good thing.

I hope it doesn't happen slow for you because I don't know if I could take that.

This happened really quickly.

And so I was like, Are you able to grieve?

Were you able to grieve?

Yes, I went for it.

My wife is really helpful with that.

She was like, go for it.

Just cry and just grieve because eventually you actually just have to stop crying.

There's no way you can keep crying, there's no way.

But you feel like there's a hole in your heart and a hole in your lungs.

You feel unhealthy and you feel like you have to go to hospital, that you're gonna die.

You know, you just have to go through that and you go.

And then you just get it out of your system and then, you know, as time goes on You just start being able to laugh at the things, kind of happy memories.

You know? And sad that she's not here anymore, but glad for what she gave me.

And all the memories, it means way outweighs the sad thing.

I just wish she was around, that's the only thing.

And if you harp on that, then it's too depressing.

Did it change your perspective on your own work?

Because it's funny, I remember thinking about my old business when it was like, it was my entire life.

I was thinking if I lost this person in my life now, I don't know if my business would mean the same to me because in part, I'm doing this for them.

Yeah. Yes. You still do it for them.

In a weird way, I still do this for my mom.

I think of her when I do things.

I go, she would be, she would be psyched.

She would be proud.

That would make her laugh.

I still think of her for most things I do.

She would love that.

That would make her proud.

She'd be like, oh, that's funny.

Or that's good that you did that.

Her loss, you turning 50?

Yeah. Putting all these pieces together, it seems like this might have inspired your increased concern and, I guess, drive for longevity and health.

Because we talked just before we started recording and I asked you what's sort of front of mind for you at the moment, and one of the things you mentioned was longevity and health.

Yeah. When did that emerge?

Maybe around, I mean, I'm 50 right now.

But I think about my parents, they were never healthy.

They used to drink a lot.

At the time, they smoked.

When everyone smoked.

I think there's a picture of my mom pregnant with me, drinking and smoking, which is fantastic.

I mean, gosh. Terrible.

But man I turned out okay, right?

You wink. Okay wait, do we?

See, listen to this back, yeah.

Maybe I didn't turn out.

Guys, maybe this is a lesson.

But yeah, I think about being around for my kids and trying to be alive and kind of financially stable for my kids too, because I don't think my parents thought about any of that stuff.

They just go, no just have, it was a lot of fun and like a lot of support.

And like, that was a lot of the thing.

You know, but they didn't really, didn't work out.

I think we bought a treadmill twice, you know, different times, just tried to make it something that we would all do and no one ever did it.

So what does that actually mean for you in terms of your longevity and health journey?

Does it mean that you're going to the gym you're thinking about what you're eating?

Yeah. I'm definitely eating better, I work out when I can, you know, I walk every day.

I love walking. But yeah, I try to you know, I don't drink as much as I used to, and you know, I get checkups.

Not that I'm unhealthy but I think, you know, I just want to be around for a long time.

I don't even know how long I wanna live to be honest. I don't want to be that old that I'm older than every one of my I mean I want to have people my age I don't want to be a hundred and thirty and no one else is Like dude, that guy won't die.

I mean eventually it should happen.

I just want to be I want it to all happen kind of in the right way and then eventually as you get you go on and Pass away, but it's I want to be able to be enjoying everything now For anybody that likes Matcha, for anybody that likes lattes, one of my companies has just launched canned Matcha lattes.

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Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself.

I'm inviting 10 ,000 of you to come even deeper into the diary of a CEO. Welcome to my inner circle.

This is a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world.

We have so many incredible things that happen that you are never shown.

We have the briefs that are on my iPad when I'm recording the conversation.

We have clips we've never released.

We have behind the scenes conversations with the guests and also the episodes that we've never ever released.

And so much more. In The Circle, you'll have direct access to me, you can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview and the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember for now, we're only inviting the first 10 ,000 people that join before it closes.

So if you want to join our private close community, head to the link in the description below or go to DOACCircle .com.

and I will speak to you then.

Is there a next chapter in your mind that you're looking at already?

Are you thinking about life beyond TV?

Media is changing so much, I mean you are one of the sort of real pioneers that rode the shift towards the internet and digital and you've got more bloody followers on YouTube and Twitter and Instagram than anybody.

I think you've got like 100 million followers or something crazy.

But are you thinking about the next wave of Jimmy?

Not really. I feel like this is a good gig for that type of aging.

I think the older you get, the better the talk show gets.

Johnny Carson did it for 30 years I want to say.

And I think I can do it as long as there's an audience.

And I feel like there is always gonna be an audience.

I feel like I know everyone's like, TV is dying, you know, ratings are dying, but I don't think it is.

I think TV is just as powerful as it ever was.

I think they're making some of the best entertainment, the best shows, are on television.

If you call it something else, if you call it Netflix or if you call it, you know, a live podcast, whatever it is, you're still watching.

You need entertainment, and thank God for entertainment because you just find yourself when you're needing some outlet or creative or something, or if you're going to break, whatever you want to call it, meditation, television's there for you.

You could turn on television and watch a movie, watch a show, and you're like, this is great.

For an hour of my life, I don't have to think about my problems, I'm thinking about their problems, or I'm watching a reality show.

Whatever show it is you're watching, but your brain's moving.

It's not like your brain's shut off.

you're listening to this podcast. You're not just zoning out going, you're actually thinking while you're listening to this.

And this is changing the way you think.

You may not agree that I think, you might think, oh television's over, but that's interesting, still your brain's moving.

And this is fun for people to listen to.

And this is, I think entertainment is always gonna be there.

It has to be around.

And I think it's just, it's moving this way and that way, but I still feel like eventually there's a screen in your house or wherever you're living that you're gonna wanna see things on.

You know whether it's gonna be through your eyeglasses or it's gonna be through your, you know, contact lenses or your phone or whatever it is.

You know, I don't think it's gonna be the Apple goggles but they have to try.

Outside of TV you were very busy.

I was reading through your business portfolio and it's extremely extensive.

You founded a production company producing several shows, series, films. You made a comedy, a series of comedy albums. Yeah, the last one was called the Holiday Seasoning, which is a Christmas album, but I wanted to create like a new verb.

Like, hey, we're all holiday seasoning.

Like are you holiday seasoning?

I'm celebrating Hanukkah.

I'm, you know, I'm celebrating Kwanzaa.

we're all holiday seasoning.

It didn't take off, but you know what, it may be in the future, maybe, you know, in 2050, people will all be saying hey, are you holiday seasoning?

You know, yeah, I don't know.

I don't know if I created what I wanted to on that one.

But you've got the ice cream, the tonight dough.

Tonight dough ice cream, we've raised a lot of money for serious fun, which is a great charity.

It's a great ice cream, by the way, but it actually goes to a great cost, so it's win -win.

I was reading about it before.

That's really cool, yeah.

And outside of that, there's lots of other things, from a ride at the Universal Studios, to spinneys, to— Yeah, we got our own roller coaster, yeah.

Crazy. Gobstompers skate shoes.

Yes, gobsstompers were a sneaker that we came up with that, the more you wear them, the more the leather wears down.

And they become different colors.

So eventually, every pair of shoes become unique to that person.

There's no two pairs of the same shoe.

The through line here, Jimmy, is about making people happy.

From rides, to ice cream, to the creativity and the fun of the products that you've made, that appears to be the through line.

I like that. Yeah. But that's the through line of your life in many respects.

It's a really relentless attempt to, to please others and to make people smile and to make them happy.

Yeah, I do. I like that.

I like making people happy and it makes me happy And now you've got two beautiful children It's the greatest thing.

You're a dad. It's the greatest thing.

I'm a dad. Can you believe that this guy would be?

This guy would be a dad And I I think I'm a good dad They're the best kids.

I love them so much. They're so fun, they're funny.

They make jokes, they're interesting, they're interested.

How did that shift the meaning of life for you, becoming a father?

Because I'm in the process of hopefully having children at some point and I'm trying.

I'll tell you one thing that surprised me.

I don't want to tell you about your own kids because no spoilers.

You're just gonna figure it all out.

And when they get to a certain age we'll talk and you'll be like, dude.

And they go yeah, of course.

I didn't want to ruin it for you.

It's, it's great. It's a lot, it's great.

But the one thing I didn't think would happen to me is I like other kids more.

I actually appreciate other kids.

And they go hey, are you not sharing with that kids got no friends, go talk to that kid.

Cause you go that could happen to me, my kid.

So you start thinking about other kids, They go, hey, no, no, no, be nice to him.

Or he's not, you know, it's like.

And then the screaming baby in the restaurant that once, when you were younger, you'd go like, will you shut that baby up?

Now you go like, dude, give me the kid, I'll take the kid for a walk.

I will shut this baby.

I understand what it's like to get out and be a parent and you don't want the kid to cry.

And I understand, I get all that now.

And you go, oh, I'm much more patient with that.

What advice would you give your two daughters for life?

A life well lived. They said, Dad, listen, how do we live a good life?

Be nice to people. Give when you can.

Make people smile. What if they say, Dad, I want to know how to be successful?

Then go do what you want to do.

I think that would make you successful.

Do what you want to do.

If you do what you want to do, you'll be successful.

How are you misunderstood?

Because we're all misunderstood in some way?

You know, maybe someone that laughs at everything.

I don't really laugh at everything.

I do have a good time, but I don't laugh at everything.

I think, one way I'm misunderstood is maybe people don't think that I know what I'm doing or that I am just living through life like I don't know what's going on but I do know what's going on.

And I do care, and I put a lot of work into what I do.

And I really put a lot of thought and care into things that I put out.

And what does your gravestone say to me?

If you could write it yourself I would say he had a good time That's not bad I like that Jimmy, thank you for doing what you do It's so unbelievably apparent to me, as someone who has just spent a little bit of time for you, that in your heart, you are an incredibly pure well -intentioned, happy, radiant person who has a really authentic desire to spread that to other people and in fact gains a tremendous amount of energy and happiness from making people like me and everyone that you met in my team behind the scenes happy and we need more people like that in the world especially in times like these

where there's so much division and the internet is an absolute war zone.

It feels like everybody's frankly losing, if I'm being honest, because everybody's just firing shots at each other on both sides of the aisle, but just generally just all sides of life, so it's wonderful to have people in the world and safe spaces and fun places that maintain a bubble of happiness and joy and humour.

And you're one of those incredible, incredible spaces on the internet, but just generally in life as well, so thank you.

It's such an honour to have spent time with you and you're someone that I've looked up to forever.

You've been on screen for most of my adult life.

And before I was interviewing people and I had the privilege of doing this, so you're one of my idols as well.

And so thank you for that as well.

It's been a tremendous honour.

And I feel somewhat, it's incredible that I'm like in New York and I'm sat across from you.

It's really something special.

Keep doing what you're doing.

You're great. You're fantastic.

I had the greatest time.

It was so fun. I want to say thank you to every camera.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

We have a closing tradition, where the last guests leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're leaving it for.

And we'll ask you to do the same.

The question left for you is an interesting one.

It was, how would your view of yourself change, and how would your behavior change, if you learned beyond doubt that reality is not objective, but exists only in what you do and your actions?

God, the edibles kicked in whoever wrote that one.

It's a deep one, Jesus.

I wouldn't be shocked.

I'd go, wow. I probably would take credit for it.

I'd probably say I knew that.

And then you go, wait, what?

You knew that? And you go, yeah, I wouldn't be shocked.

If all of this was just based on what I'm doing, it's fascinating.

If that's the real truth, how fascinating.

What a great experiment this was.

And I hope, I can't, I hope I passed.

And again, I'm a people pleaser.

Whoever is playing this game, I hope they're enjoying the game they're playing.

I sometimes think it's a simulation.

We think we've like, banned that as conversation.

And someone's playing us.

Yeah, they're just messing around.

It would make sense.

But don't you think whoever's playing us is enjoying themselves?

We're good characters.

Maybe they started the game and they've wandered off.

Oh, and no, it's like Toy Story.

They don't play us anymore?

Yeah, they're just off doing something else and they forgot.

And we're fucking around.

Yeah, and then they go, oh, I didn't play that in so long.

Jimmy Fallon game? Oh, good.

No, I don't play that game anymore, yeah.

No, I had him create a business.

that they forgot to turn it off.

Let it rain. Oh my gosh, but yeah.

Well hopefully that you don't have to play me anymore.

I'm going to get to the next level.

You will. Jimmy, thank you.

The best. This was so fun.

Thank you so much. I really enjoyed it.

Thank you so much. Pleasure.

Thank you for having me in your kitchen.

Thank you. Really, I like what you've done with the place.

This has always blown my mind a little bit.

53 % of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show.

So could I ask you for a favor if you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us The free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button My commitment to you is if you do that Then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week We'll listen to your feedback.

We'll find the guests that you want me to speak to and we'll continue to do what we do Thank you so much This year I announced that I was moving to America and like anyone moving countries, I found myself with a long list of things to sort out.

Getting a new doctor, new utility providers and choosing my new mobile network.

I value my time and flexibility, so I really wanted to avoid waiting in a store to switch my Sim over while navigating a lengthy contract.

And so I chose Mint Mobile because I'd seen all those adverts with Ryan Reynolds who are now a sponsor of this show.

Since I joined, everything has been straightforward. I was set up in less than five minutes and the coverage has been incredible, probably because Mint runs on the largest 5G network in the US.

And most importantly, I haven't needed to change my phone number.

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For them Mint's pricing is really really appealing as they get high speed data and unlimited talk and text, which is really everything you really need without overpaying.

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[지미 팰런: 'Saturday Night Live'에 대한 집착, 그리고 사람들을 행복하게 만드는 삶의 철학]-[Jimmy Fallon: I Wasn’t Prepared For The Hate… It Was Brutal. I Was Starving, Living on $7.25!]

📋 Summary

꿈을 향한 맹목적인 집착과 실행력

밑바닥에서의 성장과 회복탄력성

어머니, 가장 든든한 팬이자 영감의 원천

엔터테이너로서의 사명과 미래

🎯Key Sentences

📝Key Phrases

📖 Transcript