Can I just be commercial for one second for this answer?
Whatever you want.
I appreciate that match.
I learned so much.
Fuck that match.
Fuck that guy, man.
Fuck that guy.
Fuck that guy.
I love this album so much, man.
And I think congratulations is in order.
You've returned with a beautiful, deep body of work.
And I can hear even just from High Alone, the first song, how much love and attention and dedication you put into this music.
Thank you.
Every detail and every nuance has really mattered to you.
It means a lot coming from you.
Thank you.
I appreciate it, man.
Let's go right back to the very beginning.
You know, you're searching for a frequency.
You're trying to find a clear frequency, I think, right?
There's some stuff going on.
You're changing the station until you find how you feel.
Yeah, I spent more than a year to create them.
And you know obviously I was coming from a athlete background to training in a K-pop system as a trainee, to debuting in a K-pop group, then to figuring out being a solo artist.
Oh, wow.
So you go from a competitive sports and to just being competitive with yourself.
Yeah, yeah.
That's deep.
Yeah.
And it's very different as a solo artist because you know back in that system, which was really great, a lot of great memories from as the group.
But it was more like everything was so well arranged and structured.
I just needed to show up and work.
And, you know, this is the song, this is the dance practice, practice and practice.
But as a solo artist, you know after, especially you know, joining 88, 88 Rising, I felt like that I was going through the second trainee days of how to become creative.
And this time, but it feel a little bit more like you were training.
And I say this with the greatest respect to the group and to the early training days of what gave you the work ethic.
And you already had that, but really enforced what was required.
But when you're in the 88 rising early days, does it feel like man?
I'm actually training to find my own voice now.
A hundred percent.
That's why I felt like uh uh, I'm going through the trainee days on how to become a creative more than just music, you know designs, just being able to think outside the box, and and uh, you know, after 10 years of like nonstop um schedules after schedules, all packed every single every, every day of the year um,
You know, I figured I needed some rest.
I didn't even have time to reflect on myself.
And you know I took almost a year off, you know, just for myself, to breathe and to think about what does everything mean?
What's the purpose of, what's the value, you know, as a person?
Can we pause there and talk a little bit about that?
Because, just for a second.
Because, first of all, congratulations.
You know, have self-awareness enough to pause and to say you know, I just need to go and be in my own thoughts for a minute, because it's hard to do that when things are moving really fast.
Yes.
It's intoxicating and your adrenaline's high and the endorphins of success and attention and everyone's like man, it's working, it's working, it's working.
So you want to keep working and working and working.
Yes, yes, yes.
You know, so you come off the back of that.
You're like no, you know, I'm going to listen to myself.
Take a break.
So it's just, it's just, can I ask you what you did?
Like what, what, what, what happened in that year?
What was some key, influential moments for you, even if it was just sitting still and doing nothing and staring at a wall.
But what were the key moments for you that really allowed you to to to capture the space that you so was seeking?
I think it was.
It was one question at a point.
I was, it was um.
Am I the Jackson Wang that people know me of?
Or am I who I think I am?
Great question.
So I couldn't even answer that.
Yeah, it's a great question.
Well, it's identity work.
Because what you're doing is you... Okay.
Which one should I be?
Should I be the person that people want me to be, that I think I am?
Because I'm no different to that.
I'm the same person.
But then over here, I've got these feelings and thoughts, right?
And emotions I'm assuming that maybe they don't know about.
How do I get them to know that me?
Right.
And then it came down to a question.
I didn't even know who I was anymore because it's so used to that version of me.
But I wanted to make sure. that I am that, but I didn't even know.
It's a lifelong contract, man.
You know it's like next thing.
You know, if you don't ask that question at that point in your life, you could be like 10, 20 years down the road.
And you're like, oh, I really don't know that guy anymore.
Yes.
And then I took a year off, you know, started writing.
Started writing not just music, like journals, diaries.
Beautiful.
And spending really some quality time with my family, my parents.
And...
Yeah, I was just writing how I feel and I wanted to.
That's why this album is all about how I feel in everything in reality in society, in industry.
Yeah, because it wasn't written during sessions.
It was all written during life.
Yes, yes.
And I started writing, travel to different places just with a few producers friends, and then we lock ourself up and just keep writing.
The first time that I'm writing without pressure, without having the idea of I have to use those songs.
I was just writing and writing and writing.
And also to be able to go in with these ready-made thoughts and emotions, this truth that you've already revealed to yourself.
So it's not like, okay, guys, let's get the track up.
And like, what do I want to say?
I always think, like in writing sessions, it's kind of fascinating that people put themselves in this.
I'm all for pressure of time.
You execute through pressure of time.
But the idea of like, I've got eight hours today.
What am I feeling like?
Dude, you can't... I can't answer that, like, every day.
I can't sit there, like, on a Tuesday and go, what am I feeling today?
But you can when you spend a year figuring it out, right?
I think it was... I had the diaries already before I decided to go in session.
Yeah, that's what I mean.
That's beautiful.
It's already there.
It's there.
Yeah.
Life has given you these thoughts.
Yes, and...
Yeah, just writing on how I feel about everything.
And I feel like the first time writing songs for myself.
Because back then it was well very great songs that I did, you know, for the first couple years of my solo career.
But now just thinking back, I don't know what it means anymore.
And that feeling of being on stage singing so many songs of mine but doesn't really resonate with it.
I think any artist who is trying to honor the relationship that you have developed with your fan base, it's a special relationship.
And we feel invested in you.
So there are songs we want to hear because they now belong to us.
Like, I found my partner to that song or that helped me through a breakup or whatever.
I need that song.
Like, I came for that song.
But you're right.
It's got to start with you.
You've got to feel it.
Exactly.
And I think for every other artist I mean majority of them they have songs that the creative process for them to produce is amazing, very personal for a lot of artists.
But I think I went the other way where I was given songs.
I was given certain songs, given certain things to execute.
And then now time passed, I felt like I needed one of those albums in my life that represents me.
Not thinking about, oh, is this going to be an ear candy song?
Or is it going to be, are we talking about lollipops?
I want something that represents me.
You want your kid A. You want your blonde.
You want your moment where you can sit and listen to it and be like.
This is who I truly am in this moment in my life.
And yet you honor the magic man, this image of the magic man that you've created.
And you've created a part two of this.
The artwork is very affecting.
The artwork is violent.
But it's true.
So let's talk about that.
It's true to you, Hal.
What's the truth?
I just feel like the reason why a lot of people, even a lot of my audience, are asking me why, what's Magic Man?
Why is the visual like that?
And it's almost like Magic Man represents whoever that's inside me.
It's like, for example, I meet the other Jackson today.
I see him, but I don't know who he is here.
Neither, by the way, I've known him for 10 years.
I have no idea who he is.
And I think like that, whoever that was shape and the identity of that internal emotion for me.
People see Jackson Wang, my audience sees me, but how do I really feel?
I don't think anybody, I didn't even know that.
So it's the most personal thing you can show them is that artwork.
Yeah.
And in that time you know being in this field alone for like more than 10 years.
You know always traveling.
And yeah, I missed out a lot in my youth.
Dealing, you know, I debuted when I was 19.
I didn't know what industry was.
I didn't know.
Your child started.
I'm sorry.
19 is yeah, there's maturity there, but you don't.
It's not enough to be able to look back on that time with wisdom and say I knew what I was doing.
Yeah.
And I felt lost.
That's how I felt inside me.
What do the lights feel like on those days when you know when you're carrying that truth?
But on the outside and you're showing up for work and you're doing the shows, and it's bright and it's loud.
What does it feel like?
The only bright and light that I saw in 10 years is being on stage, having my audience there.
Yeah. that was it.
But what killed me internally was behind the scenes, you know, just, I wasn't used to it.
I'm not, I don't know.
I didn't know how to deal with it.
Like the system, this, the reality of everything, the humanity of everything.
So yeah, that's why I created this album.
And also this album is very self-serving for me.
Great then, it works for us.
But after this album i'm i'm, i'm open to make a lot of uh, lollipop songs.
Hey hey please yeah i'm, i'm willing.
Don't worry, man dancing jackson's gonna be back in a heartbeat.
Don't worry about i got you, i got you.
I don't think so, i don't think so.
I think once you cross this threshold, i think it's uh, i think you've even, i think you know which way you're going.
And also, you know I, for majority of my solo career obviously I grew with 88 rising, you know inspired me a lot.
But at the same time, I was like a one man team.
I had to I direct all my stuff.
I write treatments for all my stuff I wrote.
I'm basically, you know the the craziest thing is the prep, the preparation for everything.
I just need to do everything.
Yeah, and you know there's pros and cons where versus if you're, if you're in a system, you have everything taken care of.
You just need to show up, you just need to execute and focus on, you know um, delivering the best you can.
But as a solo artist, independent artist, it's so much work, you know there's so much stuff that I would have to edit.
Even my behind the scenes, I would have to post this and just make sure that it's a one man label.
By the way, I think that that is the, I think that's right.
And I know it's tough.
I know it's hard work, but man, you know, if you love something, you'll put it in.
I really love it.
And it's.
I've been doing that for more than five years, but it feels like now.
I feel like I need help.
I really need help.
But it's also really cool to get to that point, because now you can take, now that you're open to great tasteful collaboration and teamwork, you're going to learn.
There's only so much you can learn from yourself.
You know?
Yes.
It's actually finite.
You need people around you to be able to go like, hey man, what about this?
And if you go, actually, I'm not so sure about it.
And then you think about it and you go, actually, I do like that.
Boom, that's a revelation.
That's huge.
Yes, I really need to a point that I've been doing this for five, six years.
At this point in my life, I feel like I need a normal, like I need someone.
I need somebody around me that can just go back and forth and to figure things out.
Has it felt lonely?
It must have felt lonely at times.
Always, always.
And a lot of people have this misconception about me.
Oh, Jackson, look at his visuals.
Look at his this.
Look at his performance.
Look at his connection and resources.
I had nothing.
They think he probably has like 50, 60 people behind him.
But I don't.
I wish, when you got to spend time with family, when you got to reconnect with family, what a beautiful, what a beautiful experience too.
You know, I think it's the great sacrifice of anybody who chases their dream, especially when it requires the kind of work ethic that something like what you do does, and the travel that's required.
The great sacrifice, when all is said and done, is the relation, is the toll it takes on the relationships, the people that know you best.
Yes, that's why I live with them.
Both of my parents, they were also national team athletes.
And we lived together.
And then I think that one year... For that very reason.
Yeah, I live with them because there's a song in my album that's named after them.
And through that year I was just thinking like There are a lot of thoughts that I've never really thought about my parents.
This song called Sophie Reiki.
My mom's called Sophia, my dad is Reiki.
And that one year I started thinking you know, it's interesting that we're born, but we always tend to think like our parents will take care of everything.
As a kid,
Oh, they'll take care of everything.
But we never actually thought about when they first had us, they had no idea.
Zero.
I'm a parent, dude.
Zero.
It's like the thing that most humans will, I mean, a lot of humans will have that experience.
If you're lucky, it is a part of the order of things.
And then when it happens, it's like you're the first parent on earth.
Yeah.
You're like, what is going on?
Yeah, and probably they were in their youth.
You know, they had dreams.
You think they never went to a party before?
You think they never flirt?
They never, like, played around?
Yeah, of course.
Of course they did.
But I think you know it's that I think at the end it's like that responsibility of the parents, that
When I grew up, I thought, you know, especially during my puberty, I'm like oh, they don't, they don't know this.
They don't know what the trend is.
They don't they're not they're not not fashion.
They're not like great taste or whatever.
But then I think it was.
It's a sacrifice, you know, that that they.
It changed their entire life, you know, just having me and my brother.
And I've seen it as a kid.
And just entirely, just in general, I just feel like us and our parents.
It feels like we're on the same street but they're just further up.
It's a cycle.
Yeah, that's right.
And look, I think that's the right way to look at it.
In my opinion.
I mean you have to establish your identity in order to leave home and go and achieve what you want to achieve.
But you have the self-awareness and emotional intelligence to bring it home and to not abandon it altogether.
And I think that's really special.
And I think I'd love to know...
If you're willing to share how your parents responded to you returning home at a moment when you needed that space.
Because I'm sure that they saw when you got home, the Jackson that you hadn't even seen yet.
They saw where you were and what you were missing and you needed a year to find it.
Do you know what I mean?
Spending time, more and more quality time with them definitely healed me a lot.
Because it wasn't, they were not talking to Jackson when I was home.
I felt like I was, like, as a son.
Yeah, the kid.
The baby.
No matter how much I age, I'm still the baby to them.
My brother is almost 40.
You know, same.
Same.
Yeah, and, yeah, you know, and especially, you know, Asian traditional family.
Also, the friends around me.
It's so hard to say I love you to your parents.
Yeah.
Why is that, do you think?
Yeah, I don't know.
All my friends are like, it's pretty, I don't know, to them, it's a thing.
Like, it's pretty rare.
Do you think generationally it's starting to shift a little bit, that there's a little bit more openness when it comes to that kind of like outward affection?
Even my friends, they still can't do that.
It took them really long to really, you know, think about and be brave enough probably when they're drunk or whatever and to call dad and for the first time say dad, i want to tell you something i love you, dad.
You know, it takes them like probably five six, ten years to say that.
But I make sure that I say it every day.
You know, after that one year, you know, reflecting.
And even a lot of my friends, you know they probably just in general, they always tend to think the parents will be there forever.
Right.
And then it gets to a point where, oh, parents is sick and then they visit, but then it's too late.
That's very very, very common, very powerful realization.
When you realize, I mean not to make it about me, but I'm just going through a very similar thing.
Like I've always had a strong relationship with my mom, but she's at that point in her life where it's the order of things.
And I'm realizing now, as I'm going home like man, it's hard not to think about I could have spent a bit more time.
Yeah.
I could have gone home a few more times.
You know what I mean?
And I had a lot of dreams about that where I had a crazy dream when I was in Japan.
I woke up crying because it's like me talking to my mom on WeChat, like on iMessage, like messaging.
And then I woke up in the dream.
People told me like, oh, mom's gone.
My brother called me mom's gone.
And I couldn't believe it.
What do you mean?
I was just talking to her like two minutes ago.
And then that feeling of you going back to that chat And you're realizing whoever that's texting you will never text you again.
Dude, I mean, sometimes I scroll on my phone and I see old numbers.
That's a heavy one.
Because I don't want to delete them.
I don't want to delete the numbers.
Yeah.
Dude, we're lucky.
It's a gift to be here.
You know, every day matters.
And when I listened to this album, I really get a sense that you have accepted that and taken the opportunity to make something that you're truly proud of, not just another album, because it's time.
You took your time.
I took my time.
I healed.
And I think it's important for me to share to my audience what happened and why Magic Man, why the visuals and how I overcome everything.
How did I recover from it?
That's why in the entire album, there's four chapters to it.
Let's talk about the chapters.
Let's go through them one at a time and share with us all, as fans, what you want us to know about the chapterization of Magic Mantoo.
Just in general, the entire album is about just going through life.
And there's so many emotions in life where the chapter one let's say it's manic highs, going into losing control, going into realization and going into acceptance.
And that applies to everything in life.
That's just life in general.
And every single song, there's a message to it according to the chapters.
And that's how I feel about love.
That's how I feel about this.
This is what happened to me.
This is my situation, my scenario, my experience.
And at last everything comes down to.
The last chapter of acceptance is accepting everything.
And then we get made me a man yeah, which is a powerful, powerful song.
I mean it really is almost like a.
It's like you have stared at those things that you were scared of, that were anxiety inducing, that you couldn't talk about, and it's like you're kind of making peace with that time in your life a little bit on that.
So yeah, the last song is make me a man, and it's chapter four acceptance, accepting it and moving on.
And that's every situation in life.
And something happened.
You learn, you first of all, you get very emotional about it, then you realize a lot of things and at the end you know what.
What has happened can't be undone, you know.
So you just accept it, you learn and you move on with it.
And whatever the good and the bad made who you are today, When you say and obviously there's a lot in these songs that's very personal to you, so you go as far as you want to go.
And it's important to us as fans and listeners of the music that it becomes ours too.
But when you say you know I still miss the mark, that really jumps out to me.
You know, because it's the kind of observation people make when they're sort of accepting their flaws.
And it's not just the conspiracy that surrounds people, but ultimately there's a real...
There's an acceptance that I'm culpable here for all of this too.
So what do you mean when you say that?
It doesn't have to be as granular as a specific, but what does that mean to you?
That statement, I still miss the mark.
It means like I was living in a certain way where I was so confident in what I was doing, how I felt, what I think is right and what I think is wrong.
But then, you know, life is just so dynamic at the end.
You realize, oh, it was not the world that I understand is not what it's like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're trying to control it.
Right.
And then that's when you learn to just accept and just move on with it.
I love the way it finishes as well.
You know, live the magic.
Just accept that the unknown is kind of the whole point.
Yeah.
So okay, Jackson Wang, you're back and you've got, you know, a beautiful album that people are going to love, this album, you know, because it's you.
It's really you.
It's really me.
But the thing also, you know, like the other day, you know, I was talking to my team.
Shout out to my team, Choi Peter.
By the way, you got a great team.
I walked in there.
That's a great team.
That's a real team.
That's like out in front of Four Seasons looking like a damn football team.
That's like literally in the back there, like holding it down.
They're my partners.
I like that.
Yeah, partners.
So yeah, you're the guy that, like I, get the feeling that when you roll into a spot with your crew, you're at the head with everybody and not in the middle being surrounded by everybody.
I am?
That's how you felt?
That's how I feel.
Wow.
Yeah.
Or are you surrounded by everybody?
I think I was surrounded by everyone.
I always remember I was backstage in an award show.
I don't know.
I really like this.
I like this.
You know, you see these entourages move as one and they're just like big organisms.
Sometimes you don't even know who's in the middle of them, because it's like 12 15, 20 people just moving like one.
And it's like, who is that?
Like, I can't even see who it is.
Is that Doja?
Who is that?
Is that?
You know justin, who is it?
And then there's this big commotion and this crew's moving like an arrow down the corridor and drake is at the front and i'm like there's a guy who leads his team and i loved to see that because i'm like he's not afraid, he's not, he's not in the middle being surrounded.
He was like nah, i'm out front, like this is my crew.
I loved that.
It just showed real.
To me, at least, it showed character at that time.
I'm going to emphasize that from now on.
Make sure that I'm walking in front of the pack.
You do you, but I just think it's cool.
It's like, man, you know, like, I'm okay.
Yes.
Anyway, you were talking to your team, you were saying because I was saying people are going to love this album.
Yeah, yeah, I was talking to my team.
Also, you know the friends producers on this album, like Sayak, like Bae Lou AZ Pisces Dem Isaac, everyone.
Beautiful music, by the way.
I mean, everyone's really surrounded you on this record in a great way.
Yeah, and it was amazing making them.
And we were just having a conversation the other day like To them in a third-person perspective.
They think Jackson, let's be very honest.
You're creating a Kiwi.
You're not creating Apple because Apple is for everyone.
You're creating a Kiwi, so don't expect it can sell like Apple.
But my point is, it's not meant for that.
I think that's a trick.
I think that's a trick.
I don't want to speak for everybody else, but I think that's a trick because this is an apple, bro.
This is universal humanity wrapped up in brilliant modern pop music.
I'm sorry, but it's like there were real smashes on this thing.
And there's real depth on this thing.
I said to you before we got on the air, like it's really beautifully contrasting.
I think if I was working with you, I'd be like dude, you're making a Kiwi, because I just want you to stay on the track and not try to make an apple.
It's going to be an apple no matter what you do.
It's very important to hear that today.
Cause, honestly speaking, cause the album.
Album is done, you know, eight days, a week before it's launched.
I was really thinking about, you know what?
After this, I can make any, I can make, I'll make like 50 apples.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But after hearing from you, maybe I should just.
I think you're just going to, I think he's going to follow your heart.
Isn't that why you took the year off in the first place to be able to listen to your heart and not listen to everything going on around you?
Yes.
To break the spell.
Yes.
And by the time you get to Buck, get fuck out of here.
You know, by the way, you don't mind if I swear to you.
I think I heard you like to curse.
Oh, I do.
I do.
I just didn't know I'm allowed in this building.
Please be yourself and always in this building.
Just be 100% yourself.
With that many eyes out there looking at me.
They don't fucking care.
I'm not going to be disrespectful.
I'm just trying to keep it loose.
Probably if I go out there, I'd be like, Jackson, why the fuck would you say that?
There he is, ladies and gentlemen.
He's in the building.
He's in the building.
He's in the building.
Because you know why?
Because all I want to do when I meet someone is to just meet their true self.
I am.
I am.
I am.
And I can tell.
I can tell.
I knew for a second I met you.
This is a great first hang.
Buck, though, man, that's an apple.
That's an apple?
That's a smasher.
Dude, that's one of those ones that I reckon like there are real people out there, real ones who have made real dance floor records, real moments that will be like I wish I'd done that one.
I think that's a full keeper.
I really love that song.
Yeah, same.
You did it with Diljit, which is amazing too.
I want to talk about that relationship.
I know you just went to India.
You spent some time out there.
I love that.
I love India.
I love that you're a traveler and you're curious.
Let's talk about your impressions of India and why you went and what you love about it.
It's because it's one of those territories that I've really wanted to visit, also like Indonesia and also Japan, where there's a difference between a foreign artist touring in a new territory right.
Where... whoever that comes to your show will be the ones that know of you already.
But every single country or every single city.
They have their own entertainment like loco culture, entertainment culture.
And I really wanted to dive deep into it.
So what prompted that?
Just a huge curiosity.
You seem like a very curious person.
I am.
I wanted to obviously to me right now.
Every place, every country, every city.
Honestly, in some way, it felt the same to me in the past 10 years because it's always been venues airports hotels, you know it's yeah, it's a world within a world right yeah, shopping mall, same brand, every single country yeah yeah, I think it's demoralizing.
Sometimes I'm just like wow, there's got to be more than this, exactly.
So I'm like yo just don't, don't bring me to tourist places, bring me to the local local.
I want to live like a loco.
So what is okay?
So what was that?
Where did you go in India?
What was that?
I went to, I basically went everywhere.
I went everywhere, the nightlife, you know, I went on the streets.
I was trying to avoid my team so that I can try like I could go out alone with my friends, so I could feel like a loco.
Yeah, but fuck that.
We're up to the races now, bro.
Hey, someone's not happy in the room.
It's cool, man.
I don't want to speak for your team, man, but I think they just want you to be happy, right?
I mean.
So what was the wildest?
What was the wildest Not wild, as in, like yo, that was a wild night.
I'm not talking about the hangover one, two, or three, but what was like the most...
Oh, vivid, visceral, emotional.
Where did you go that was like, this is a feeling.
Wow.
I'm so glad I came here for this.
Oh, I went to um.
Obviously I'm a big fan of nightlife and I went to um.
I think five clubs in one night, I think in four hours.
Good effort.
Right.
But then the more like the starting from the third, fourth, fifth club, the music was different.
Yeah. it wasn't like, like Bollywood music.
It was some experimental stuff that it was just sound.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Or maybe I was too drunk, but it was just, it doesn't matter.
You remember how you remember it was just sound.
And I had like food thrown into my mouth, but it was on fire.
You know, it was like, okay.
So it is hangover one, two, and three.
Right.
It was like, um, vegetables or whatever.
Like, yeah, it was very good.
And, uh, Uh, Hanuma Kind was there too.
I love him.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He was here last time, right?
He's the best.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And he showed me around and yeah, that was a very wild night and I forgot what we drank, but it was very Indian.
They're really, and I mean this with love, they're true.
I'm going to go next year.
They've been trying for the last few years to get me out of there.
Mumbai.
Hanuman's on my case.
And like, there's like, they're all like, dude, come on, come on.
Yes.
Come on.
Yes.
So I'm going to get some tips from you.
I want the flaming food.
And there's also like the street food is out of control.
What a brilliant and beautiful thing to be able to do to just get off the treadmill and go and see what the world has to actually say yeah, never one tip for me from me.
You know personal experience.
Never order room service again.
It's too safe, like then might as well just eat at home, right?
Why are you traveling?
Just go there and, and you know, destroy your gut and and and you get.
You get me feel it.
It's also very rarely any good.
It's not often very good.
Yeah, it's the thing it's like.
It's boring.
You're the 85th chicken breast of the day.
Yes,
Caesar salad.
Come on, man.
Here's the thing.
Let's talk about Caesar salads.
Caesar salads and bread.
Two very important orders.
You can tell the quality of a restaurant by the bread they put on the table at the beginning of the meal.
Yes.
Straight up.
It doesn't have to be warm, fresh, rosemary tinted.
It just has to be their bread.
Oh, you can tell their quality.
Oh, you know what kind of meal you're going to get based on what's in the basket.
I feel like it's from the expression of the guy, the persons that bring you the meal.
Very important as well.
I mean, do they really know their menu?
Do they really understand the culture of the restaurant?
Very important.
But you get the bread.
I've had the most, I've had artisanal bread delivered to me.
I'm like, I don't even need to see the menu.
I'll just have the bread.
That's fine.
But I want to know like like, when you go to an Italian restaurant, they give you that bread and they've been serving that bread for 40 years.
I'm like, I'm in for a great meal.
Caesar salad.
Same thing.
A good Caesar salad, great restaurant.
Bad Caesar, you can really fuck a Caesar salad up.
You're a foodie?
Yep, I do.
It's important to you that whatever you do now in your life, right?
I'm asking, but I'm assuming, now that you work around, the experience of eating well and taking care of yourself right?
Because when you start, food isn't the priority, right?
It's like work.
Yeah i i, i love food, but i don't really care if it's a decent restaurant or what.
I i, i don't have a, i'm not a guy that i don't like.
What decent fancy restaurants?
You need to grow up now his no no no no, really i don't like it.
You know what i hate?
Can i be real?
I want you to be real.
Ah, You go to this restaurant, expensive as fuck, give you a big-ass plate, one rice, and explain 45 minutes to you.
Where did it come from?
I appreciate that, but what the fuck, man?
I'm sorry.
Don't apologize for telling your truth.
No, what is that?
Yeah, what is that?
Yeah, that's why I love to go to night markets in Asia, especially Chinese food, where entire bowl the fried rice is like like, like mountain, it's a pillow.
Yeah, you put your head in there, go to sleep.
Yes, i love that.
I don't like sir, this is a fish from fucking dead sea and then it's gonna from 50 years ago.
The chef used this specific samurai sword to cut it open.
Hey, please delete what i said.
Oh no no no because, because like offend anybody no okay, so let's talk about that.
Let's talk about that for a sec, though.
There's songs on here That tell the truth.
They're not offensive, but they're also not pulling any punches, right?
Oh, you're talking about G-Bad?
Yeah.
And there's others as well.
Yeah.
Hate to love.
Right, right, right, right, right.
So you're going to offend people in life, man.
Yes.
You just are.
And so let's just talk a little bit about the different eras of life.
When you look back at the person who started out, There was probably a lot of fear attached to that experience, right?
When I first started?
Yeah, of like, I don't want to say the wrong thing.
I don't want to.
I didn't know what I was doing.
I had no direction.
I had no navigation.
I was just sprinting.
Did you ever wish during the hardest times that you'd stayed in competitive sports?
Because it was a choice.
You could have gone to Stanford.
Yeah.
You had a choice.
And when you make a choice, did you ever regret it?
No, because I know in my gut that I wanted to entertain and perform.
You knew in your heart.
Even when I was fencing, I felt like I was performing.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let's talk about some of the others.
What's your favorite song right now on the record?
If you had to press play on the record.
Me, Me and Men.
Yeah.
I think that's a conclusion you most proud of that?
I feel like that's a strong conclusion.
For me it's a highlight.
It's what the entire album means.
I think the one-two punch of hate to love into one time is pretty powerful.
It sits in the middle for me with purpose.
It really, to me, those two songs are friends.
I feel like they know each other.
Do you know what I mean?
The entire, the way I arranged it for the entire album, it never stops.
If you start playing, it just never stops till the end.
And then it just plays again.
You know how like between songs, there's like a what?
0.2 millisecond of, yeah, I didn't like that.
You're so in the weeds on it, man.
I love it.
Kiwi.
It's kiwi.
It's not, dude.
It's apple.
It's kiwi.
I'm telling you, it's apple.
Just give it time.
Yeah.
What's your relationship like with time now?
Because when you started, you don't have any.
Go to work, wake up, do a show, go to a mall, eat some fancy food, right?
Caesar salad.
Caesar salad.
You took back time when you took that year.
Yeah.
Are you willing to give the music grace?
If it is a Kiwi for six months or a year and it takes three years to become an apple, is that a success to you?
Are you able to understand that now?
Yeah, the more they talk about this is a Kiwi and that I don't feel like, I think it's a struggle, you know, but honestly, for me internally, I don't really care because I feel like it's so meaningful to me, you know.
But at the end, but at the same time, the more they talk about it, I felt like maybe they're right, you know, and it's so hard to not care about results too.
It's hot, you know, so yeah.
There's apples on this.
It's just beautiful music, dude.
It's honest.
Sophie Ricci.
Honest.
Made Me A Man.
Honest.
High Alone.
Honest.
It's fun.
Fuck fun.
But I don't regret it.
So I'm proud of this.
I'm proud of what I made for Magic Man 2.
It's personal.
I think it's going to be really important for you as an artist.
I needed that.
Yeah, I needed this album.
Every great artist has to take risks in order to be their true self and get past what we want from you every time because we liked it.
Oh, my parents didn't even hear Sophie Ricky yet.
Why haven't you played it?
No, cannot.
It has to be when it's released because I'm planning to make, I wrote a treatment.
I want it to be an animation.
Oh man, I can already tell what that's going to be.
Yeah.
Special.
Because you couldn't capture the emotion you want to get with real cameras and real reality.
That's what animation is for, right?
To reach into the other areas of the mind.
Yes.
What do you do when you're not creating?
What is life for you now that you've established some ground rules?
Do you binge watch?
What's your exercise?
What's life?
I still fence.
You still fence?
I still fence.
How high intensity cardio is fencing?
Oh, I used to run on treadmill, but I feel like it's too boring for me.
Yeah, it's really boring.
Yeah, and like every two seconds.
That's why I like boxing.
Boxing is like you have to just stay on your feet literally and think all the time.
It's great.
But for running for me on treadmill it's like every two seconds I would have to look at my Apple Watch like How many calories.
How many calories?
But in fencing, you're just busy.
Yeah.
You know, you're, you're, you're, you're playing a chess game.
Right.
But then after like two hours, you see it's like more than 1000 calories.
Cause you've been using your mind as well.
Cause it's like, it's, it's, it's, it's cardio for the brain.
Yeah.
So fencing, I think it's the best cardio for me.
And you're wearing a lot and you're wearing a helmet, you know, so.
The Olympic tattoo.
Yeah.
In honor of?
Oh, the first youth Olympic that I went has competing 20, 2010.
Where did you end up?
11th.
11th.
Yeah, I lost to Team Russia.
Do you remember much about that match?
15-14.
Wow.
At one point.
Tell us a story about that.
Tell us about the end of that match.
You want me to tell?
Honest?
Honest?
Dude, are we not honest with each other?
Are we commercial?
Are we honest with each other?
Can we just be commercial for one second for this answer?
Whatever you want.
I appreciate that match.
I learned so much.
Fuck that mask.
Fuck that guy, man.
Because back then, the fencing mask, this is transparent.
But now it's not.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what are you seeing in your opponent?
In the middle, the last point, I parried it and I hit the plastic.
So you can't score with the plastic.
But I hit that and I lost the point.
One point, I was so mad.
I was crying, and then I came down, like, reporters are interviewing me.
How do you feel?
The fuck you mean how I feel, man?
I just went through hell.
And two seconds after that, you asked me how do I feel.
I know you're just doing your job, but what do you want me to say congratulations?
Yeah, so they they have uh, they have a picture of me, they.
So after that interview they took a photo, because that that that picture is still on the end.
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
I was so pissed.
I was just looking at him, looking at him.
It's tough man listen, fair play to you for getting to that level.
It's so hard to get through the door when it gets to that level of competition.
I started really young.
I started at 10.
And then by 13 14.
I lived for a year and a half two years in Budapest, because I was training there as well.
So I didn't really go to school.
I didn't even graduate high school because I was just competing, competing, competing.
So let me ask you about friendship.
Because, as somebody who was hyper-focused on achieving at a young age, either with your fencing and then into training to be a performer, You've mentioned several times that you didn't really have a conventional childhood.
You didn't really get to enjoy.
Compared to my friends.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
So how did that shape?
Me?
Friendship.
The idea of friendship to you and how you relate and how you trust and create real friendships.
I grew up, you know, as an athlete, then to as a trainee, then to a group.
So I'm always surrounded by a lot of people.
Is that friendship, though?
I mean, yeah, but the more... I think time.
Time defines.
But then, you know, the more I age, I feel like it's...
Ah, it's very tricky.
It's very tricky because friends, through time you build that trust and everything, but then it only takes one moment to destroy everything.
Yeah, and real friendship can get past it, but it's the big test.
Yeah, and also like people, everyone have like different agenda.
You know different dreams, different purposes in life and if that's not aligned then then it's tricky.
So that's why i think after 30 i'm more neutral.
I'm more neutral.
I'm not like back into this.
Obviously i'm an extrovert if i built a relationship or i would go all in and i'll open my heart wide, but i think now it's more, more neutral.
You know i'll give it more time to to, to sit.
So when you went into um, into the into, into the kind of performing arts, and you got out of, I'd imagine, did that feel to some degree almost like it was a.
It was kind of a relief because when you sort of in in competitive sports, you're training, you're on your own in Budapest, trained to be the best in the world.
That's the goal.
And then every single match you're you're, you're one slightly misjudged parry away from heartbreak.
Yeah.
I think that's why I think like athletes are very crucial.
Like, If you're the top 32 in the world, then you're about the same, honestly.
Yeah, yeah.
It's just ranking system.
One parry away.
Yeah, one parry away.
Sorry to keep bringing it up.
One parry away, right?
Just one bad, ill-judged parry, you know, could just change the whole course of your life.
But we can move on.
It's fine.
Yeah, you're just like, if you're the top 32, you're around the same.
And then it depends on the day of that competition.
You know, the weather, right?
Your condition.
How's your warmup?
You know, there's so many different factors that can affect the result.
So that's why I always feel like, oh, you're the Olympic champion or you're the world champion.
You're the gold medalist that day.
It only means that you're the champion that day, that moment.
It worked for you that day.
If you do that again tomorrow, you probably can't.
Yeah.
Yeah, so that's why it's... And, you know, athletes are... You get injured really easily.
And that could be, you know, the end of your career.
I'd really like to talk to you about how you're going to bring this album to life now that it lives.
I mean, how you're going to bring it to people, shows, all that stuff.
If I get to... you know, have the opportunity to do a tour, you know?
Isn't that up to you?
I mean, it is, but obviously hate to repeat this again, but it's Kiwi, you know?
So if whoever that wants to come eat Kiwi, I'll make sure that the experience of the tour is different.
It will feel like a live movie arrangement.
You come in super cinematic and it's... Enhanced, enhanced.
Yes, it would feel like a movie.
Yeah.
That's going to be a beautiful way for you to spend your creative energy now that this album is done.
I can imagine you're already thinking about it, right?
Because creatives don't stop thinking.
Yes, I'm already thinking.
So I hope, you know, after more people would come eat kiwi with me.
Eat my kiwi.
Please, I hope more people will come and eat my kiwi.
Sure.
There's a lot of people excited to eat your kiwi.
I can imagine that going out on tour now that you've gone to parts of the world without that routine, that you'll be able to apply some of that.
Has it changed the way you look at how you're going to move now travel within this framework of Jackson Wang the artist versus Jackson Wang the passport.
The plane India, late night clubbing, flaming food.
I don't think I'll have time.
You know, when I'm on tour, everything obviously is very packed.
And also after 30, not complaining, but like after 31, I feel like every time after having a meal I fall asleep very easily.
Yeah, it's a great thing.
It's so good.
I hate it.
Post-meal naps.
No, no.
Give into it.
No, I hate it.
What's number four?
Acceptance.
Chapter four, acceptance.
Okay to fall asleep after eating, bro.
No, I can't control it.
That's the problem.
20-minute Jackson nap?
No, I hope it's 20 minutes, but it won't be 20 minutes.
It goes on like three, four hours.
That's not a nap.
That's not a nap.
It's a full set.
It's a full set.
It's REM.
I can't control that after three.
I never used to have that.
That's called the gift of life, my friend.
The longer it goes on, the more it aches, but the more grateful we are for it.
I'm really, really, really grateful for this opportunity to get to know you.
Right?
Just the beginning.
You know, I know you don't do an enormous amount of this stuff, but man, just come back.
The second conversation is always better than the first.
And by the 10th one, man, it's not even like we're having.
I'll come back with.
More fucking sugary candy apples.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're talking about blue sky.
I'll be like, Jackson, what happened?
What?
Marshmallows.
I'll talk about marshmallows.
What happened, man?
What's with all this sugar, man?
What happened?
Reality hit.
Reality hit.
You're going to come in with a peroxide flat top and like really fancy sunglasses and a space suit and be like I'm really proud of this pop album I just made man.
I'll be like, what happened to my friend that I met like two years ago?
He was a great guy.
I like that guy.
He was a good guy.
I mean, sure, I'll talk to this guy, but who is this guy?
Don't call me Jackson.
I'm Jay Wang.
Jay Pop.
I've had a really good time hanging out with you, man.
This has been a really good, really good.
It's an honor to be here.
You know, thanks for having me.
We're way past that, man.
We're way past that.
Is there anything that we didn't talk about?
Because I know that this is a, it's a really important opportunity for you to speak to fans.
And I'm really grateful to be that conduit, to be that channel, to be able to give that opportunity to you.
And we've talked a lot about, you know, Caesar salads and fencing and fuck that guy.
And it's been fun.
But I want to make sure that you say what you want to say.
He's actually a very nice and kind fuck, man.
They can't diss and kiss.
They can't diss and kiss, man.
I can't.
It's too late.
It's too late.
Remember, in life, you're going to offend somebody.
Sometimes it's got to be real.
Is there anything that you want the fans to know, that you want to say that's your truth today, given that you're on the verge of releasing a very important album?
Yeah.
I think, like I said, it's the first album that I really feel like i produce and wrote all these songs for myself, and also i think it's important to be honest to my audience and and being able to open to them at this stage of my life that this is how i feel and I know probably they want to see something else.
And obviously I would satisfy that in my next album.
But this moment, it's for them, also for myself.
This album is truly who you are today.
Then how can we not love it?
